Linux founder trashes Mac OS X foundation

[Anton Szandor LaVey]

The forthcoming autobiography from Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux operating system and figurehead of the open-source movement, promises to cast a shadow over Apple Computer's newly released OS X, parts of which Torvalds describes in less-than-flattering terms.

"Frankly, I think it's a piece of crap," Torvalds writes of Mach (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/mach/public/www/mach.html), the microkernel on which Apple's new operating system is based, with additional elements from the FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org/) version of Unix. "It contains all the design mistakes you can make, and manages to even make up a few of its own."

Torvalds' comments promise to upset not just Apple fans but also some quarters of the free software movement. The Mach microkernel is also being used as the core of Hurd, a kernel project from the Free Software Foundation that will be an alternative to Linux as the heart of the GNU (Gnu's Not Unix) operating system, originally devised by free-software advocate Richard Stallman.
The criticism comes in a chapter of "Just for Fun" where Torvalds tells that, on arrival in Silicon Valley in early 1997, Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs invited him to join Apple and help develop OS X. He says Jobs also wanted him to help attract open-source developers to the project.

The remarks will particularly sting Apple because the company has widely publicized the fact that the core of its new operating system is, like Linux, based on the Unix operating system and was developed on open-source software.

The Mach microkernel was created at Carnegie Mellon University in 1985 and has been incorporated into a number of commercial operating systems, including IBM's OS/2 on certain systems and Apple's OS X. Torvalds says that as developers have tried to improve the Mach microkernel it has become hugely complicated and convoluted.

Bumps and starts
OS X has not been unanimously applauded since its launch (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5240619.html). Shortly after it was released to the public, users questioned (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5195914.html) the lack of support for certain peripherals, particularly CD-rewritable and DVD-recording drives.

Torvalds writes that, even back in 1997, he foresaw compatibility problems between the new operating system and older applications, due to a lack of memory protection--a safeguard that stops applications influencing each other and the operating system--in old Mac applications.

According to Torvalds, Jobs assumed Torvalds would be interested in joining Apple's mission to capture more of the PC market from Microsoft, rather than continuing to concentrate on Linux. "I don't think Jobs realized that Linux would potentially have more users than Apple, although it's a very different user base,". :(

Taken From: CNET (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5530483.html?tag=prmo4)

What do you think?

[Edited by Anton Szandor LaVey on 04-17-2001 at 03:49 AM]

wUt aN aSs...

[PowerUser86]

ouch!!! that hurts! why did he go and do that?

[Trip.Tucker]

So I wonder how he feels now.. Linux is still pottering along at a slow rate and OS X rockets into the media limelight like never before. Poor Leeeeeenus.. and his Leeeeeeeeenux. :p

[valdore]

Haha, best ancient thread bump ever.

[clevin]

So I wonder how he feels now.. Linux is still pottering along at a slow rate and OS X rockets into the media limelight like never before. Poor Leeeeeenus.. and his Leeeeeeeeenux. :p

well, if you follow the industry closely, he just trashed OSX several months ago, again.:p

[Trip.Tucker]

well, if you follow the industry closely, he just trashed OSX several months ago, again.:p

Link?

[clevin]

can't remember, you can search his name here at MR, I think there are 2 or 3 lengthy thread about it.

[Cromulent]

Link?

There's a thread somewhere on the forum. The media blew it up into him saying OS X was rubbish when what he really said was the file system was rubbish (which it is).

[karenflower]

Here's one: http://www.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9865732-16.html

[Satori]

The forthcoming autobiography from Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux operating system and figurehead of the open-source movement, promises to cast a shadow over Apple Computer's newly released OS X, parts of which Torvalds describes in less-than-flattering terms.

"Frankly, I think it's a piece of crap," Torvalds writes of Mach (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/mach/public/www/mach.html), the microkernel on which Apple's new operating system is based, with additional elements from the FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org/) version of Unix. "It contains all the design mistakes you can make, and manages to even make up a few of its own."


Mmmm... Isn't this what is usually described as 'flamebait'? Posting a story from 7 years ago to get the newbie-fanboys' panties in a bunch?
Anton?.. Shame on you! :rolleyes:

[valdore]

Mmmm... Isn't this what is usually described as 'flamebait'? Posting a story from 7 years ago to get the newbie-fanboys' panties in a bunch?
Anton?.. Shame on you! :rolleyes:

The OP posted this thread seven years ago. This forum was a smaller place back then.

[flopticalcube]

Mmmm... Isn't this what is usually described as 'flamebait'? Posting a story from 7 years ago to get the newbie-fanboys' panties in a bunch?
Anton?.. Shame on you! :rolleyes:

Actually, the OP posted this story 7 years ago. Trip.Tucker revived it.

[clevin]

Mmmm... Isn't this what is usually described as 'flamebait'? Posting a story from 7 years ago to get the newbie-fanboys' panties in a bunch?
Anton?.. Shame on you! :rolleyes:

lol, no, OP posted this 7 years ago. somebody dug up the gravy yard and want to humiliate Mr. Linus.

[Trip.Tucker]

lol, no, OP posted this 7 years ago. somebody dug up the gravy yard and want to humiliate Mr. Linus.

Dug up the gravy yard? Thats a lot of digging considering the gravy yard is the ship breaking beaches and dry docks. Sure you got the right term? :p

As for humiliating Mr. Torvalds (Linus is his first name), he seems to be doing that by himself and commenting on or resurrecting a thread that has current relevance and group/media focus does not equate to a desire to humiliate.

[clevin]

Dug up the gravy yard? Thats a lot of digging considering the gravy yard is the ship breaking beaches and dry docks. Sure you got the right term? :p


in case you missed it, dig up grave yard is a term ppl use to refer to this type of practice, actually the term is neutral as I understand. No negativity around it. :p

As for Mr. Linus, as a significant creator of linux kernel who supported and breed massive amount of OSS libraries and apps, many of them used by many OSX users (safari, perian, vlc, etc), probably you included. i think he deserves some appreciation from OSX users. Sure I can't stop anyone from looking at the world in a apple-nonapple way....

[MultiFinder17]

lol, no, OP posted this 7 years ago. somebody dug up the gravy yard and want to humiliate Mr. Linus.

Ah! Die necropost, die! Back to whence you came!

[Sun Baked]

Ah, the thirst for old news...

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10836

[boast]

So I wonder how he feels now.. Linux is still pottering along at a slow rate and OS X rockets into the media limelight like never before. Poor Leeeeeenus.. and his Leeeeeeeeenux. :p

It is too busy running on servers and supercomputers

[Trip.Tucker]

in case you missed it, dig up grave yard is a term ppl use to refer to this type of practice, actually the term is neutral as I understand. No negativity around it. :p

As for Mr. Linus, as a significant creator of linux kernel who supported and breed massive amount of OSS libraries and apps, many of them used by many OSX users (safari, perian, vlc, etc), probably you included. i think he deserves some appreciation from OSX users. Sure I can't stop anyone from looking at the world in a apple-nonapple way....

Ok first, you said gravY yard, not grave yard so my interpretation of your statement was correct. Your spelling, alas, was not correct.

As for your beliefs on what influence Linux development has had on OS X is inaccurate. Linux != Unix. The applications that are present on both platforms existed in Unix well before Torvalds decided to build a monolithic kernel and port those utilities. System 5 Release 4 was the original spec. for a lot of subsequent Unices and if Linux had never come to fruition we would/could still have OS X. OS X runs a microkernel, has libraries NOT based on ELF or a.out, et al


Do some research before making incorrect statements and finally, here's a saying for you that I think sums it up nicely - "Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs". Look that one up :p

[Trip.Tucker]

It is too busy running on servers and supercomputers

Yah.... I think you missed the point of the statement.

[kkat69]

Your needed in Engineering Trip.... stop necro'ing T'pol and do your job! :D:D:D





j/k

[clevin]

Ok first, you said gravY yard, not grave yard so my interpretation of your statement was correct. Your spelling, alas, was not correct.

As for your beliefs on what influence Linux development has had on OS X is inaccurate. Linux != Unix. The applications that are present on both platforms existed in Unix well before Torvalds decided to build a monolithic kernel and port those utilities. System 5 Release 4 was the original spec. for a lot of subsequent Unices and if Linux had never come to fruition we would/could still have OS X. OS X runs a microkernel, has libraries NOT based on ELF or a.out, et al

Do some research before making incorrect statements and finally, here's a saying for you that I think sums it up nicely - "Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs". Look that one up :p

do you really don't know where safari comes from? or do you really don't know what is ffmpeg? do you really think all the developement can be done w/o linux? if you indeed don't know, wiki is always your friend.

or you just playing it?

I sure understand OSX is a branch of Unix, but are you seriously ditching the components you are using day-2-day that is from pure linux environment? Are you seriously think nowadays linux/unix develop environment can be separate clearly as you make it to be? are you seriously think OSX benefit no significant stuff from linux? What should I called that? ig.....? I think I was clearly, all the way in this thread, telling you about linux, did I mention anything about UNIX? if I were to mention UNIX, I would have accused OSX copying major codes from OSS and priced it at $129 for UI. ( which I did several months ago)

[Trip.Tucker]

do you really don't know where safari comes from? or do you really don't know what is ffmpeg? do you really think all the developement can be done w/o linux? if you indeed don't know, wiki is always your friend.

or you just playing it?

I sure understand OSX is a branch of Unix, but are you seriously ditching the components you are using day-2-day that is from pure linux environment? Are you seriously think nowadays linux/unix develop environment can be separate clearly as you make it to be? are you seriously think OSX benefit no significant stuff from linux? What should I called that? ig.....? I think I was clearly, all the way in this thread, telling you about linux, did I mention anything about UNIX? if I were to mention UNIX, I would have accused OSX copying major codes from OSS and priced it at $129 for UI. ( which I did several months ago)

I can't seriously understand a word of your post. LOL :p I doubt you seriously can either.

Seriously. :p


...but seriously dude, you really are making an ass of yourself.

[Trip.Tucker]

Your needed in Engineering Trip.... stop necro'ing T'pol and do your job! :D:D:D






j/k


LOL! She is hot! Hotness heated up twice, then spiced up for even more hotness! :D ...and don't get me started on those pointy ears... omg!:p

[kkat69]

LOL! She is hot! Hotness heated up twice, then spiced up for even more hotness! :D ...and don't get me started on those pointy ears... omg!:p

and those jammies she wears??? ZOMG!!!















ok we're showing our geekness, at least we haven't started drooling over female night elves..................................... yet

[iFizz]

I can't seriously understand a word of your post. LOL :p I doubt you seriously can either.
Seriously. :p
...but seriously dude, you really are making an ass of yourself.

Don't worry about Clevin. He tends to dish it out a lot but he doesn't take it very well. Seen it 1st-hand in another thread....

[clevin]

really, uninstall your vlc, mplayer, perian first if you want to eliminate any linux influence on your dear machine :p

and let me know after you did so, then we can try to found more for you to delete :)

[Queso]

So I wonder how he feels now.. Linux is still pottering along at a slow rate and OS X rockets into the media limelight like never before. Poor Leeeeeenus.. and his Leeeeeeeeenux. :p
Hardly. As Mark Shuttleworth announced today, the Spanish Government are rolling out 500,000 installations of Ubuntu right now and the French police force are also currently migrating all their systems over to Linux.

Worldwide there are probably more active installations of Linux than OSX, and with increased momentum towards Linux that gap is only going to increase however well Apple do.

Not that it matters. The Mach kernel back when OSX first launched WAS crap, especially its stupid limitations on processor cores and hobbled I/O architecture. This is why Apple had to completely redesign it for the Tiger release.