Web Browsers

[AmbitiousLemon]

::hangs head in shame:: i confess... i dont like osx.

ok mostly its just because my 333mhz g3 is too damn slow to run it but there are a few other things that drive me nuts. but lets save those for another day. one of the reasons ive been unhappy with my osxperience is that i cant find a good web browser.

so im hoping you guys can help me out. ive downloaded and tried the following brwosers:

internet explorer 5.1
omni web
mozilla
icab
opera
netscape 6.2

none of these have made me happy but im pretty sure there are newer versions now than when i last checked back when 10.1 first came out (or maybe it was back in 10.0.4 days i forget).

i want a web brwoser that is fast (duh), and is simple. buttons should be "back" "forward" "stop" and "refresh" if there a bunch of buttons up top it drives me nuts. no buttons on the side or bottom either, keep it simple people. well now that ive described what i want can anyone tell me if there is any browser out there that fits my needs. right now im in internet explorer. drives me nuts but its the only one with customizable buttons that allows me to remove all the "extras." still ie is ***** and im so tired of it. please help me!!!

o and one more thing. do you think apple will start having more browsers preinstalled in x?

[voicegy]

Well, I'm usually more verbose when I post, but all I can say about OmniWeb running on OS 10.1.2 on my G4 is...

"It's da bomb!!"

You can customize the heck out of it, and it can't be beat for eye candy!!

Scott

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by voicegy
Well, I'm usually more verbose when I post, but all I can say about OmniWeb running on OS 10.1.2 on my G4 is...

"It's da bomb!!"

You can customize the heck out of it, and it can't be beat for eye candy!!

Scott

ok so i just tried omniweb out again. it has changed a bit since i used it last.

something is screwed up with their website so it took about 2 hours to download (this was my first hint that perhaps omni wasnt the solution to my problems). installed omniweb used the customize toolbar thing to get it my way and typed in www.apple.com. worked fine. speed seemed average. next i typed in www.macrumors.com. crash! got the funny little thing asked me to send a bug report. i quit, restarted and started omni again. it hadnt saved any of my preferences (argh!). went to apple.com again (again fine) went to macrumors - crash! well i guess i wont be using omniweb anymore. worked much better the first time i tried it, wonder what happened.

so in cl***ic apple still has ie and netscape installed but in x apple only has ie installed. does anyone know why apple changed this? i always thought it was nice that apple gave people a choice. i think most people use ie in x because its preinstalled.

[ThlayliTheFierce]

I'd have to say Opera. It's in beta 3 right now for OS X, so it'll be in final soon. I'm using it right now. You can customize it a lot, it's WAY faster than IE and Netscape, and you'll love it if you have a 2-button mouse (mouse gestures are the way to go!). I haven't used Omniweb too much, hopefully it or Opera will do for you. IE is just too slow.

[britboy]

i'd have to say that omniweb is easily better than ie or netscape. I love how you can so easily customise the buttons and layout. Haven't had a problem with it yet (10.1.2) loading any web pages. Mind you, netscape still beats it for ftp.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Just tried the Omniweb beta version (thought maybe it would work where the other version didnt). same problem. i can go to macrumors but not after apple. very odd. the new icon is cool though. i'll have to try opera again. last i checked it was fast but unfriendly but that was a long time ago.

do you think apple will ever start having more browsers preinstalled than just IE? its really annoying to see that most people use it since i think those who have tried others have all found better solutions. im a big fan of netscape 4.x in cl***ic. its the main reason i use cl***ic in OSX. still not pleased with netscape 6 (version 6.2 now) although ive read some very favorable reviews from the linux crowd. its interesting that even here where i think we are dealing with a very educated (computerwise) group of mac users most people have just used IE since it is preinstalled and havent bothered to look for anything better. i like omniweb since it is cocoa and uses the osx standard customize toolbar feature -- its too bad it doesnt work.

[AmbitiousLemon]

trying out Opera now. seems pretty good. speed seems average. but i do have one problem. it seems to display things differently than any other browser. as i wrote this the text is so small i cant read it. and buttons on this page are in different places and overlap eachother and text. dont think i'll be using opera very long. looks like i'll keep using netscape 4.7.8 in cl***ic since there dont seem to be any mac os x web broswers worth using. such a shame.

i guess this is why apple is only bundling IE with OSX, none of the other browsers seem to work properly. netscape6 is slow (very slow), omniweb would be perfect... if it worked, opera displays everything funny. any opinions on icab?

i would really like to see a functioning omniweb bundled with osx, but this is extremely unlikely since apple seems to have deals with netscape and ie.

[irmongoose]

Did you say you used a 366MHz G3? You said to leave that aside, but I think THAT is your main problem... 366MHz G3 is too slow for OS X. I have a 366MHz G3, and OS X certainly works horribly... have you tried using the browsers on a faster machine??


irmongoose

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by irmongoose
Did you say you used a 366MHz G3? You said to leave that aside, but I think THAT is your main problem... 366MHz G3 is too slow for OS X. I have a 366MHz G3, and OS X certainly works horribly... have you tried using the browsers on a faster machine??


irmongoose

:) i know. mac osx x is sooooo slow on my machine. but with the browsers im not too concerned about speed (they all seem about the same) i just want something that works.

[newmanium]

i dont know if it makes a difference compared to the 366 machines, but im running 10.1.2 on my G3 400 iMac DV and runs just fine, bounce and all. it's fitted with 384 megs of ram but it runs circles around my G3 500 icebook (with 640 megs of freaking ram)

[krossfyter]

woz uses icab...he digs it.

[kansaigaijin]

I have OSX running on a 350G3 imac it works just fine. I have also used iCab and Omniweb on this machine, they work great. I think you have some other problem. Maybe you should do some optimization of your sytem, run speeddisk etc.

I prefer that Apple does not preinstall stuff, it is easy to download what you need. If you had a big problem downloading Omniweb, then you probably have a problem with your system or your connection. You should do a little maintenance, Apple cant preload that for you.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
I have OSX running on a 350G3 imac it works just fine. I have also used iCab and Omniweb on this machine, they work great. I think you have some other problem. Maybe you should do some optimization of your sytem, run speeddisk etc.

I prefer that Apple does not preinstall stuff, it is easy to download what you need. If you had a big problem downloading Omniweb, then you probably have a problem with your system or your connection. You should do a little maintenance, Apple cant preload that for you.

my system is fine thank you very much, as is my connection. the problem is with omniweb and their website.

im interested in whether you prefer omniweb or icab though.

[kansaigaijin]

frankly I think you have some other motive than choosing a browser. I downloaded no problem. I installed no problem. They work no problem.
OSX works great on this iMac 350.

Just try the browsers yourself, make up your own mind it is largely personal preference. For all that, I am beginning to wonder about some of the people who post and ask questions. You claim your system is fine. Why is it only you who has problems?

What about the rest of you, don't you think some of these questions are weird?

[PyroTurtle]

iCab is nice and small and fast...
i use IE usually though and it's just fine...
i have a 233 iMac, and on that i use iCab...
i know OS X is slow and all, but it's not that bad on that slow machine...
so, iCab and IE are the only ones i've used that work well all the time...
however, Mozilla is my back-up browser...
so out of those three, pick the one that is right for you...
for the slower machines you relly need more RAM as well to use OS X....
all in all, just play around and see what's right for you!

[ThlayliTheFierce]

Try Opera again when the fully carbonized version is out. They don't have the buttons and fonts quite right yet. I'll have to try Omniweb and iCab.

[krossfyter]

who created the iCab?

[Microsoft_Windows_Hater]

I think i know your problem though...are you running 10.1.2? Omniweb beta and 4.0.6 are designed for 10.1.2 and not anything else. This beta i am using has not crashed once yet so it must be something on your system. Try Sneaky peek 27 or above. IE really does suck...

anyways, apple awarded Omniweb the best new piece of software for MAC OS X if i can remember correctly. It was said to be the best reason to upgrade!

[krossfyter]

okay thanks

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by Microsoft_Windows_Hater
I think i know your problem though...are you running 10.1.2? Omniweb beta and 4.0.6 are designed for 10.1.2 and not anything else. This beta i am using has not crashed once yet so it must be something on your system. Try Sneaky peek 27 or above. IE really does suck...

anyways, apple awarded Omniweb the best new piece of software for MAC OS X if i can remember correctly. It was said to be the best reason to upgrade!

thanks for the help. omniweb does seem like it would be really awesome if it worked for me. im not sure what the problem is. im running 10.1.2. most pages seem to pop up fine but after apple.com it crashes. i really like how it is cocoa though seems like all the others are carbon. i should probably go ahead and send the report in to omniweb and see if they know whats up.

[MacUser1]

i'm on a G3 500 and am using ie, i am probably going to try something else though.

[Scott Bernard]

AmbitiousLemon:

I use OmniWeb, currently the 4.1 beta, and I have encountered a ton of problems on Apple.com. Almost any time I try to link to any Apple page from the home page, OW crashes. I've sent in a crash report each time it happens, and now if I have to look around Apple's site I use a different browser (IE or Netscape in classic).

Other than the problems with Apple's site, the OW 4.1 beta is great, although still slow as compared to Netscape 4.7 running in classic. OW is definitely by preferred OS X browser. I've tried all the others save for Opera, which I probably will get to when the finished version is out.

[AlphaTech]

I use IE 5.1, in both X and when running 9.2.2 on any system.

My main reason is that they are both FREE. The Omni ones are not free. There is something wrong in paying for a web browser when there are free ones available. There has to be a good reason that Apple ships IE 5 with OS X as well as with 9.x. Maybe I will try Omni, if they ever provide a totally free, non-time restricted version (not an LE but full version).

[willmore]

While I'm ashamed to say it, IE is my default browser. Don't get me wrong, I was really excited when all the new alternative browsers popped up on the Mac horizon. And, I'm sure they still have a lot more coming. However, IE has been the only browser that's been able to effectively handle every page I've thrown at it, most notably secure sites and Java sites. I really really like OmniWeb, but it can't handle my online banking sites and renders some pages goofily. Netscape rocks too, except that opening a new page takes about 6-7 seconds for me, sometimes longer. Once open, though, everything's lickety-split. Problem is, I close my windows when I'm done with them.

The one quirk I have with IE 5 for OS X is that, over time, it just stops trying. It'll finish the page with unloaded images, finish with everything invisible (select all lets me see them again), or clicking the link once won't do anything; I'll have to click it again to respond. Rebooting IE fixes it, but I shouldn't have to do it. Anyone else having these issues? Thanks.

[Catfish_Man]

...G3 233MHz, IE 5.1, 384MBs RAM, 7200rpm 30 gig HD, and it runs just fine. I tried Omniweb for a bit, but I didn't like the way it looked, and it didn't offer any improvements that I could see over IE. I may try it again, I haven't since pre 10.0.4

[macfreek57]

i've never tryed anything but netscape and internet explorer. but i must say that before i got my computer with os x, i thought that the best browser was IE under WINDOWS. i could never get the cache to work right under netscape or ie for mac (i'm on a 56k) but i used netscape anyway. when i got this computer, i was amazed at how good this (ie) program was. excellent "back" function that saves your page cache efficiently. the customizability is the best I'VE seen especially the toolbars. i'l try icab and omniweb though.
i don't know why i haven't yet. but the best thing about IE whether it's a good thing or not is that it's the most widely used.

[blackpeter]

I prefer that Apple does not preinstall stuff, it is easy to download what you need. If you had a big problem downloading Omniweb, then you probably have a problem with your system or your connection. You should do a little maintenance, Apple cant preload that for you. [/B][/QUOTE]

How does the average user navigate the web to find a browser if they don't have a browser???

[ThlayliTheFierce]

Originally posted by macfreek57
i've never tryed anything but netscape and internet explorer. but i must say that before i got my computer with os x, i thought that the best browser was IE under WINDOWS. i could never get the cache to work right under netscape or ie for mac (i'm on a 56k) but i used netscape anyway. when i got this computer, i was amazed at how good this (ie) program was. excellent "back" function that saves your page cache efficiently. the customizability is the best I'VE seen especially the toolbars. i'l try icab and omniweb though.
i don't know why i haven't yet. but the best thing about IE whether it's a good thing or not is that it's the most widely used.

If you think IE is customizable, Opera will blow your mind. Too bad the Carbon version isn't quite ready yet. I think it handles cache much better than IE does. I use Opera 6 as my primary browser in Windows. I think it's about the only program I actually enjoy using when I'm on my PeeCee.

[Microsoft_Windows_Hater]

I don't have a single problem with OmniWeb opening Apple.com, I haven't had one problem yet....

If you want me to validate this tell me and i can show some screenshots but i can't see what is wrong? I tried all the pages on the site and nothing crashes once....Please explain?

[jail]

shure, it's impossibly slow to open a new window, but on my 56K modem, pages load about 3 times faster than ie! that has me conned. pluss the mail settup is great, easy to use, and lets you do real html in your emails. i am not happy with netscape, but it's better than anything else out there in power, it easy enough to use, and i like the toolbar (back, forward, reload, stop). opera is meant to be fast, but the beta doesn't even open. maybe when the full version comes out...

if only apple could come up with iSurf

[ThlayliTheFierce]

Beta doesn't open? Opens fine for me. My complaint is that buttons show up weird when they are close together. Yeah, maybe in the final release. I like Netscape as well, except that it is really slow to open and scroll.

[sparkleytone]

hey thx to everyone for information on OmniWeb. it seems to be a very good client except for some font issues and one major thing. i have a question.

how do you get omniweb to save your window size in order to keep the default new window size where i want it. the default is too small for me.

UPDATE: found it...i am dumb. Browser:Save Window Size

[MisterX]

Gates afflicted with arthritis......

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Microsoft_Windows_Hater
I don't have a single problem with OmniWeb opening Apple.com, I haven't had one problem yet....

If you want me to validate this tell me and i can show some screenshots but i can't see what is wrong? I tried all the pages on the site and nothing crashes once....Please explain?

The problem lie in going to www.macrumor.com STRAIGHT after going to www.apple.com, the app crashes.

I would use Onmi all the time but it can not handle simple Java script like popup menus and redirecting correctly. In other words, the site I designed for this business does not work past the first page.

[Choppaface]

IE b/c it supports everything

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Choppaface
IE b/c it supports everything

IE is great but it's too bloated and slow.
I still use it, though, because I prefer bloated and usable to fast but unable to perform simple tasks.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


IE is great but it's too bloated and slow.
I still use it, though, because I prefer bloated and usable to fast but unable to perform simple tasks.

its frightening that microsoft's "bloated" "slow" barely functional ugly web browser, internet explorer, is the only properly functioning browser for osx. i really hope netscape or omniweb get their acts together and offer macintosh users a real alternative to ie.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
its frightening that microsoft's "bloated" "slow" barely functional ugly web browser, internet explorer, is the only properly functioning browser for osx. i really hope netscape or omniweb get their acts together and offer macintosh users a real alternative to ie.

How is it "barely functional" and "ugly"? I think it is FAR more attractive than most browsers and it has the most functionality of all of them.

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


IE is great but it's too bloated and slow.
I still use it, though, because I prefer bloated and usable to fast but unable to perform simple tasks.

well, in os X it opens in 2 seconds flat, and i never have to wait for anything if i want to switch windows in it...so its pretty fast over here (dual 500 g4)

as for 9.x...well netscape isnt very stabile I've found

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Choppaface


well, in os X it opens in 2 seconds flat, and i never have to wait for anything if i want to switch windows in it...so its pretty fast over here (dual 500 g4)

as for 9.x...well netscape isnt very stabile I've found

Oh yeah, loading time is GREAT but I think that has more to do with OSX than IE. If you have ever used one of the smaller browers, like Omniweb, ESPECIALLY for internal work, you will see what real page loading speed is.

I guess what it comes down to is we all want the most features with the least wait but more features = more to load and, therefore, a brower that can not do everything has the ability to run MUCH faster.

[Choppaface]

well, I have cable, and patience. so theres not really any reason to go the trouble of trying to figure out a new browser for me :D

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Choppaface
well, I have cable, and patience. so theres not really any reason to go the trouble of trying to figure out a new browser for me :D

When you are dealing with HTML text, does not really matter whether you have cable or dial up.... all loads pretty similar, I have found. That patience, though, is something that will take you a LONG way

[Choppaface]

also I do web design stuff, and IE certainly emulates IE on windows the best. I remember reading (I think) that omniweb doesnt even have full or proper CSS support, JS support, and other things that IE fully supports. is this true, or was I reading about a different browser?

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I couldn't stand IE for years: In those halcyon pre-OS9 days, I always used Netscape - I didn't want to fall into the Microsoft category. Then at work, I got to use IE, and began to like it (considering Netscape was lagging behind in the updates at the time).

After I got the G4 - running OS9 - I made IE the browser of choice, and it's never let me down. Now, I'm on OSX - and the browser fits in nicely. Obviously Apple knows that there's no conflicts with it's OS, otherwise they wouldn't have put it in X.

I downloaded Opera this morning - held my breath - and gave it a burl. At least I tried it out and gave it the benefit of the doubt. I found out that I could do everything I can do on IE, but I'd have to change all my preferences and bookmarks...

...a pain in anyone's language. Maybe I'll check it out again when it goes final.

I dunno - call me old-fashioned... but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[kainjow]

iSurf: Good idea

Apple already had Cyber Dog (remember that?) a couple of years back. Where did that go? Maybe they put that code into the Mail app for rendering HTML emails. I don't know. But they could team up with OmniWeb and create a freakin' awesome browser. I know they would never do this, unless it was a purely speech activated browser that spoke the webpage back to you in perfect english (what am I talking about?).

Anyways, IE is the best browser for the Mac. It displays ever kind of internet technology 5 times better than any other browser. Other browsers just render HTML, IE renders all the goodies. No other browser is as good as doing JavaScript then IE is. Netscape has a good idea by bundling a multi-app into Navigator, but it's too slow. OmniWeb would be my second choice, but it's anti-aliasing text messes tables up and stuff. iCab is quick, but not good at JavaScript and stuff. Opera, I haven't really tried, but it reminds me of Netscape (blah).

Basically, IE is the best because Microsoft makes it (not because Microsoft is good, but because Microsoft has $$$).

[sparkleytone]

WOW!

update:

OmniWeb Public Beta 4.1 ROCKS!!!


not only does it STILL look so much better due to antialiasing, but its MUCH faster. GO GET IT NOW!!!

[748s]

"if it ain't broke don't fix it" has been bumped by chaos theory. chaos theory has shown "if it ain't broke, you ain't looking hard enough".

[sparkleytone]

everyone needs to try out the BETA of OmniWeb. If they get the Flash/Shockwave stuff together, it will be THE browser of choice, hands-down. It loads on my iBook in less than 2 bounces now and is just as fast as IE. Except we all know it LOOKS so much better.

www.omnigroup.com

[Taft]

I unfortunately use IE on OS X. I will probably use Omniweb in the next release, but right now it crashes too often and is not compatible with everything I need it to be. And before anyone asks, Omniweb doesn't crash on anything in particular, it just has a tendancy to go down every once in a while. IE goes down, but not as often as Omniweb.

BTW- when does Omniweb 4.1 come out? I thought it was supposed to be this month.

Matthew

[AtlantaGuy]

I wish there was a fully compatible Mac browser out there. I keep running into websites (mostly real estate related) that require Windows & IE 5.5 + ... even the Atlanta Board of Realtors site! Of course, these are the same people who tell me there are only 4 Mac-using Realtors in our metro area of over 4,000,000 people! Then they ever-so-condescendingly suggest I "upgrade" to a Windows machine. Screw that!

Come on, MW Tokyo. I'm chomping at the bit for the Mac-Daddy of notebooks. And in July, perhaps a G5 tower and an articulating Cinema Display for the office desk??!!

[Scab Cake]

I just tried doing the apple.com and then macrumors.com thing, just as Ambitious Lemon was having problems with, and it did crash for me.. However, that was before I let the entire Apple page load. So, it crashed when I did that and then I tried again, but I let the whole page load. It works fine. I think we all just need to be a little more patient. :)

As for me, OmniWeb 4.1 is my browser of choice. Awesome browser. Looks better than any other browser out there, it's faster, and renders pages really well. Sometimes, it'll render pages a little "goofily" and I sometimes have to launch IE for order forms and whatnot, but otherwise, it's awesome.

I see it mainly as an alternative to IE, and though IE does work with pretty much EVERY page out there, it doesn't use Quartz anti-aliasing. Pages just look SO SO much nicer with anti-aliasing.

[GeeYouEye]

Am I the only one who notices that Macrumors forums look truly godawful in IE, but fine in OmniWeb? Also, there are some funky side effects to veiwing these forums in Windows IE: the scroll bar turns purple. Truly wierd. Anyway, OW 4.0.6 works fine for most stuff and 4.1 beta works for most of the rest, with the one exception of any page after apple.com.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Scab Cake: Did you do anything else besides let apple load completely. i was pretty excited when i read your post, but i couldnt get it to work. i am using MacOSX.1.2 and OmniWeb 4.1 beta 1 (v332) on a clean install (2 hours running and runs so much better after a clean install, guess i just need to install osx every month to keep it running nicely!). Went to Apple let it load completely and went directly from apple's page to macrumors and crash just like clockwork. No big deal, but I happen to go between Apple and MacRumors often.

[chmorley]

Simply the fastest, best browser there is for OS X.

Download Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org) and give it a spin. It's not Aqua enough. It's not pretty.

It just works better than everything else.

OmniWeb has been pretty, but slow. The limited "Forward" and "Back" buttons have also been annoying. I am trying 4.1b right now though (fingers crossed). It's definitely faster than 4.0.6, but it's already crashed twice in about 10 min. Looks very promising, though.

IE sucks. Slow. Buggy. M$.

Chris
__________________
"One must learn by doing the thing; though you think you know it, you have no certainty until you try."
— Publilius Syrus

[AmbitiousLemon]

several people have mentioned the "limited forward and backward" buttons in omniweb. i have no idea what this means. what are you guys having a problem with exactly?

[voicegy]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
several people have mentioned the "limited forward and backward" buttons in omniweb. i have no idea what this means. what are you guys having a problem with exactly?

Well, I might be wrong, but they may be talking about the observation that when one goes to the back button and holds down the mouse, one does not get the list of pages one has visited, so one has to keep clicking and clicking and clicking...

If that supposition is correct, then may I direct those of you who feel that that particular bit of OmniWeb is most annoying, to simply look for the little black down arrow next to the back and forward buttons. There, the "missing function" is revealed.

(again, assuming that I'm touching upon what's actually being discussed...I'd like to point out that I'd STILL rather have OmniWeb act like other browsers in the aformentioned respect...but, hey, it's pretty, and I still use it on OS X)

[AmbitiousLemon]

i really prefer the black arrow over the holding down on the button, i think it is a far more elegant feature. if this is what people are referring to then they have some serious issues if they didnt realize they could still go back multiple pages. this is one of the first features that seems to jump out to most users.come on people learn to use software before you criticize it. ominiweb does have some problems but this is not one of them. of course all this is assuming that voicegy guessed right about what these people are complaining about.

[chmorley]

AmbitiousLemon.

The last official release of OmniWeb is 4.0.6. It does not have little arrows beneath the Forward and Back buttons. This is/was a huge limitation. It is also a beautiful piece of software that shows promise, but is too damn slow.

I have downloaded the 4.1b1 and have begun to try it as a result of some earlier comments in this thread. It does have the little arrows. It is also a beautiful piece of software that is much faster than it's predecessor. I will try to use it extensively for a week or so, but am already finding it rather crash-prone.

Save the condescending crap for the 12 year-olds and morons. I know how to use software. Please ask questions (like you did) and wait for answers if you do not understand something.

Chris
_________________

“Doubt grows with knowledge.”
— Goethe

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by chmorley
Save the condescending crap for the 12 year-olds and morons. I know how to use software. Please ask questions (like you did) and wait for answers if you do not understand something.

Chris
_________________

“Doubt grows with knowledge.”
— Goethe

chmorley: I appreciate your attempyt to prevent people form being condescending but i find your comments quite offensive and, yes, condescending. i was taking offense to all the morons around here who attack a piece of software for features that they are too stupid to find. it ok not to know how to do something (like use a certain button) and its ok to criticsize something if you know what you are talking about. i began this thread by asking questions and i have continued to ask questions where my knowledge or experience is limited. what i dont like is a bunch of people sounding off saying IE is the best cuz it has all these extra features when that is not true. I was hoping for information and assumed these people were telling the truth and speaking from knowledge. Im sure others read these threads looking for information as well. It is not productive to criticsize if you do not know what you are talking about and this is what i was talking about in my last post. i find it laughable that you launch into your little tyraid browbeating me regarding features and then close with your comment about not being condescending and leaving that to 12 year olds and morons. if you want to be a hypocrite go ahead but do try not to be such a bigot. i may not have been a 12 year old in a decade but let me tell you most of the 12 year olds i know are significantly more diplomatic than you seem to be. and comparing someone to a moron just because of their age is as insulting as comparing someone to a moron because of their skin color. if you want to play peace maker more power to you, we need more around here, but leave the attitude and bigotry at the door before you try to be self-righteous.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
i really prefer the black arrow over the holding down on the button, i think it is a far more elegant feature. if this is what people are referring to then they have some serious issues if they didnt realize they could still go back multiple pages. this is one of the first features that seems to jump out to most users.come on people learn to use software before you criticize it.

This is what I was referring to. This is condescending.

I am not sure what you are referring to about my tirade. I actually think my response is pretty measured. If you read the first version of my post (which was up for about 90 seconds), I apologize. I read it and realized it was over the line, and edited it immediately, hoping no one had read it.

"12 year-olds and morons" implies 1. they are two different groups (which is why I used "and"), and 2. these are the groups to whom people usually condescend in these forums. There was no implication that a) 12 year-olds are morons, b) either of these groups should be treated badly, or c) that you were a member of either group.

Most of the post is simply factual, so I'm not sure how it's "condescending". I probably overreacted to your condescending remarks. Forums such as these seem to change discussions such as these, which would be much simpler in person, as questions could be answered immediately before the discussion progressed.

Anyway, I agree that IE is inferior. It is frustrating that so many people will not try other stuff long enough to recognize this. I try everything I can to know what my alternatives are. It's good to see OmniWeb progressing. I hope it can become fast and stable enough to be my full-time browser.

Chris

[moyashi]

sadly I use IE .... because it supports at some level CSS / java / XML

all the other browsers don't come near to IE's support ... sad but true

yeah omniweb loads pages faster than IE ... but if you can't view the page what's the use of speed?

:mad:

[Gelfin]

In the proud tradition of Microsoft's Mac Business Unit, IE for Mac is still a better product than its Windows counterpart. Like many have said already, OmniWeb is a gorgeous browser, but until they iron out the CSS and JavaScript issues, it just can't become my first choice. I do have 4.1 beta 1, and it still isn't there yet.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Ive recently revisited Mozilla (.98) and have been pretty impressed. Yes its ugly (but not as ugly as ie), but it seems pretty fast and i havent come across a webpage yet that it has problems with (im sure there are some but i have yet to come across them). i think this will be my new browser of choice in osx. one thing that bothers me is the time it takes it open a new browser window. it rarely responds to a command-N command and when it does it slow. odd little bug. also they really need a better icon. a big blue M? been looking for a good third party replacement but havent found anything yet.

for those of you who use netscape, i would definitely suggest trying mozilla. its the same browser without all the aol stuff.

i havent spent a lot of time exploring it yet (havent even looked at the tabs everyone is raving about... could someone explain the benefits of these to me?)

still in the end i think omniweb has the most unrealized potencial so ill keep checking in when a new beta comes out. i think this would be a great purchase for apple.

havent heard much from the iCab camp. i checked it out sometime ago now. what those of you have tried iCab recently think about it? id love to hear more about it.

[Macmaniac]

I'm the only person who voted other:( I have AOL:(

[CraigG]

Never thought I'd see the day when Netscape became my default again, but 6.2 is really good, way better than IE 5 and more standards-compliant than other Mac browsers. iCab and Omni need *way* more work on that score...

[jaykk]

Here is a new browser -
"Mozilla.org has made available an early released of Chimera, a Cocoa enabled web browser. Chimera is a work in progress and is current at version 0.11, it brings together a UNIX based browser and a Cocoa UI"

very promising.... but the 0.11 version is unusable - you can't input any forms, scrolling is extremely slow.. crashes a few times..no java support.. but UI is excellent and page rendering is very fast. i really like the side bar.. hopefully, by 1.0, we will have one of the best native browser.

[AmbitiousLemon]

wow jaykk. thats exciting. several people (perhaps myself) mentioned wanting mozilla in cocoa but i have to admit i didnt think it would happen. this is good news. ill stay tuned and watch this baby develop.

[jaykk]

"Cocoa Mozilla: Chimera 0.11 Ready To Roll" - The Mac Observer

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2002/02/21.10.shtml

Chimera Project
http://chimera.mozdev.org/

[sparkleytone]

is it taking advantage of quartz (font antialiasing a-la OmniWeb) ?? the tabbed mode is interesting, seems like a nice alternative to new windows. This seems somewhat promising as a browser, but its got a lot of ground to make up on Omni.

[chmorley]

Interesting. Seems to show some promise. I'm with sparkleytone, though--it looks Carbon, not Cocoa. I probably don't understand fully, but I thought that all Cocoa apps took advantage of Quartz anti-aliasing. Maybe the Cocoa front-end isn't done yet?

Looking more closely, the front end is definitely not Cocoa yet. The pull-downs are more Gecko than Cocoa. I wonder if Gecko can incorporate Cocoa/Aqua standards. Anyone know?

This seems promising, though--a Cocoa version of Mozilla...It could end up looking as beautiful as OmniWeb, be as compliant and stable as Netscape, and be as fast as Mozilla.

:eek:
Can you see that bit of drool hanging out of the corner of my mouth?

Chris

[chmorley]

This may end up being the one we've been wishing for.

Still not really usable as my primary browser, it is looking really good. It is faster and more stable than before. While they still are not using Quartz anti-aliasing, they state that it is getting closer. Sure, the UI doesn't seem completely finished, and I can't seem to enter a URL manually, but given how quickly it is progressing, this could be the one...soon.

I am curious to find what other people think.

Chris

[AmbitiousLemon]

i finally downloaded Chimera.

wow.

i havent been impressed by an application like this in a long time.

this baby is fast.

no its not done, but i think im going to use this now as my primary browser (v0.1.3). There are a few annoying ticks but im sure these will fall out quickly. and you can see where there are features left to be filled in.

screw everything else, this is my browser.

wow.

just wow.

you guys have to check this out.

wow.

and a quick edit: anyone know of where one can find an icon for chimera (or mozilla for that matter)? anyone one want to make one?

i thought i saw a aqualooking mozilla dino somewhere for chimera but cant seem to locate it. the default application icon for chimera just doesnt look good in my dock. :(

[King Cobra]

I know it's not popular, but I use Netscape 6.2.1. It is fast, but not entirely pretty or stable. My dad says Netscape for OS 9 loads pages in an instant (compared to Communicator 4.7), but I am using dial-up at 28.8K, so anything loads slow, no matter what browser I use.

[Biggles]

for the last month or two, i have been using only OmniWeb. I never opened up any browser at all. I liked the look of OW far more than IE, and all pages just looked nicer with the AA. It still had a few problems though. The stop button never seemed to work right, I had crashes every once in a while, and there were a few pages that only worked with IE or netscape. Those problems bugged me, but I had grown so attached to the look of OW that i didnt want to let it go. IE never looked that pretty......however i got it to look close.

First, i played with the look of IE with the preferences so that it emulated OW a little more (it made it look "cleaner"). Then, i used TinkerTool to use AA in carbon apps. Sure it doesnt look as good as OW, but it was an improvement and i enjoy the fact that IE is extremely well supported.

Here's a pic of how i use IE. Maybe it'll give ya a few tricks to try out:

[jail]

Originally posted by King Cobra
I know it's not popular, but I use Netscape 6.2.1. It is fast, but not entirely pretty or stable. My dad says Netscape for OS 9 loads pages in an instant (compared to Communicator 4.7), but I am using dial-up at 28.8K, so anything loads slow, no matter what browser I use.

i used netscape too, but when i got os x and had to download carbon versions of all my stuff, i decided to check out mozilla first. i have no intentions of ever downloading netscape 6, it's a waste of time.

mozilla is identical to netscape, with the same interface except:
- a TINY bit faster
- more feachers, once you've had tabs you can't go back
- opening new windows is WAY faster YAY!
- less bugs
- doesn't send every page's address you load to AOL's records

but now there's chimera, i love it! but it's just missing to many things. i use it for a while, then find i have to go into some other browser anyway. when it's finnished, it will be the ONLY choice! did you know they plan on adding OmniWeb's quartz page rendering? cool! chimera is TWICE AS FAST as IE (almost), and WAY faster than Omni + opera.