Mac OS X Leopard UI

[kjdenison]

http://images.apple.com/macosx/leopard/images/icalherodesktop20060807.jpg
Is this another thing that is "top secret"? I still don't see any unification in the UI, or any improvements. It looks identical to tiger. Any thoughts on if we will see some changes by this spring?

[kainjow]

Things he didn't go into detail about:
Improvements to BootCamp (e.g. who wants to re-boot when you *could* just double click an exe..
Finder
Front Row changes
There definitely is a lot more to find out about Leopard. It all seemed lame after the keynote was over, but after watching the QT stream, it looks awesome.

[russell]

How about the fact that they haven't been showing the desktop icons on ANY of the Leopard screenshots - only during the keynote -

The just have to do something with Finder... have to.

[p0intblank]

There is still a lot more to be seen. Apple won't stop here... like Steve Jobs said, there are some "Top Secret" features that he will get into eventually. There will most likely be another event before Leopard is released. It'll be the event where we will finally get to see these secret features. And one of them will be... *drum roll* the revamped Finder! :)

[Josh396]

There is still a lot more to be seen. Apple won't stop here... like Steve Jobs said, there are some "Top Secret" features that he will get into eventually. There will most likely be another event before Leopard is released. It'll be the event where we will finally get to see these secret features. And one of them will be... *drum roll* the revamped Finder! :)
You hit it right on the head. I'm sure there are still many improvements to come, especially a revamped Finder. My guess is we'll know pretty much all there is to know about Leopard at MWSF 07.

[Navintar]

Eventhough they didn't show us the leopard finder, it doesn't mean secret will definitely lie within the new finder. Remember that the developer preview version of leopard is shipped TODAY. If Apple does want to keep their secret feature confidential, it shouldn't include that feature in any pre-released anyway.

Of course you could say that the demo shown during the keynote can be the "real" Leopard, but I found it less likely and there is no reason for Apply to do so.

All the bells and whistles will definitely be included with the comercial version. That probably includes new desktop wallpaper, a slightly changed skin, new screen saver, etc. I don't think this could be considered as a top secret. It seems superficial to me at least.

[Axeon]

What's also weird about that screenshot is that underneath the folder in the dock, there's a black arrow. When I put a folder in my dock and click on it, no black arrow. Might not mean much, might mean the way Finder runs has been altered slightly, and perhaps even moreso that we just can't see yet.

[Lollypop]

Eventhough they didn't show us the leopard finder, it doesn't mean secret will definitely lie within the new finder. Remember that the developer preview version of leopard is shipped TODAY. If Apple does want to keep their secret feature confidential, it shouldn't include that feature in any pre-released anyway.

Of course you could say that the demo shown during the keynote can be the "real" Leopard, but I found it less likely and there is no reason for Apply to do so.

All the bells and whistles will definitely be included with the comercial version. That probably includes new desktop wallpaper, a slightly changed skin, new screen saver, etc. I don't think this could be considered as a top secret. It seems superficial to me at least.

I dont think the only remaining changes are superficial, and even with the developers getting a preview today it only means that the new core API's are finished (or nearly), Apple can still redo the finder by using core animation and all the other cores without having to show their hand to the developers and MS. Im hoping for a few more things, as with tiger there is a lot of potential for some serious bling in the Api's, Apple just wants developers to get time to use it, and very likely they themselves need to finish their own bling apps.

[kjdenison]

How about the fact that they haven't been showing the desktop icons on ANY of the Leopard screenshots - only during the keynote -

The just have to do something with Finder... have to.

I didn't even think about that. hmmmmm

[Navintar]

I dont think the only remaining changes are superficial, and even with the developers getting a preview today it only means that the new core API's are finished (or nearly), Apple can still redo the finder by using core animation and all the other cores without having to show their hand to the developers and MS. Im hoping for a few more things, as with tiger there is a lot of potential for some serious bling in the Api's, Apple just wants developers to get time to use it, and very likely they themselves need to finish their own bling apps.

And I'm not saying that they are. BUT IMO skins and animations don't justify being "top secret" features that Apple is keeping until commercial release. If a new finder is the remaining change, I'll be happy to see it get upgraded. Better UI should be a plus, but there are definitely more than just that.

All I'm saying is that Apple could definitely use the pre-release version during the keynote, so what we saw or didn't see doesn't really tell us anything.

[mad jew]

It's what they don't show that's revealing. I'm still looking for some Leopard Finder screenshots.

[br-]

The build given to the developers doesn't have any of the TOP SECRET stuff that Steve referred to. The finder is the same as 10.4.

[Lollypop]

And I'm not saying that they are. BUT IMO skins and animations don't justify being "top secret" features that Apple is keeping until commercial release. If a new finder is the remaining change, I'll be happy to see it get upgraded. Better UI should be a plus, but there are definitely more than just that.

All I'm saying is that Apple could definitely use the pre-release version during the keynote, so what we saw or didn't see doesn't really tell us anything.


My mistake then. I almost agree, the fact that apple DIDNT show certain things says a lot, more than ever I expect a new finder to ship with leopard. But as I pointed out, the developers release is about the API's, the bling will be demo'd later.

[BWhaler]

I agree with John Gruber (daringfireball.net) that Apple is going to make the most significant update to the UI in Leopard since the move to OSX. Apple is going to make Vista look like a toy.

This is clearly one of the areas Apple is going to keep top secret, because changing the skin of Vista, or offering a skin that looks like Leopard is one of the easiest things for Microsoft to copy.

It would be trivial for them to do, compared with copying iChat this late in the game or Time Machine.

I wouldn't worry about the UI you saw today. (Or finder for that matter.) Those are clearly two areas in the Top Secret category.

[ArkabaS]

What's also weird about that screenshot is that underneath the folder in the dock, there's a black arrow. When I put a folder in my dock and click on it, no black arrow. Might not mean much, might mean the way Finder runs has been altered slightly, and perhaps even moreso that we just can't see yet.

There is also no arrow under iCal, even though iCal is obviously running. I say totally bogus screenshot and/or really unfinished and rushed preview of Leopard. Also, the iCal dock icon seems to be dead since the date does not match the iCal date. IMO, Leopard will introduce major changes to the Dock. Isn't it sort of unusual how the Dock previewed during the Keynote did not display the classic OS X magnification effect??

[Chundles]

There is also no arrow under iCal, even though iCal is obviously running. I say totally bogus screenshot and/or really unfinished and rushed preview of Leopard. Also, the iCal dock icon seems to be dead since the date does not match the iCal date. IMO, Leopard will introduce major changes to the Dock. Isn't it sort of unusual how the Dock previewed during the Keynote did not display the classic OS X magnification effect??

The Spotlight icon was also in the dock.

Ooh boy is there a lot of stuff yet to come, MWSF is going to be great next year.

[netdog]

The Spotlight icon was also in the dock.

Ooh boy is there a lot of stuff yet to come, MWSF is going to be great next year.

As usual, I agree with The Chundler, despite the fact that he should be stoned publicly for being able to surf during the winter.

[MoparShaha]

There is also no arrow under iCal, even though iCal is obviously running. I say totally bogus screenshot and/or really unfinished and rushed preview of Leopard. Also, the iCal dock icon seems to be dead since the date does not match the iCal date. IMO, Leopard will introduce major changes to the Dock. Isn't it sort of unusual how the Dock previewed during the Keynote did not display the classic OS X magnification effect??
Not only that, but iCal is (supposedly) the active application, yet the menubar says Finder is the active application.

[slb]

Put it this way, we know Leopard will have a resolution-independent UI, and we were not shown it at WWDC, so we know we're in for at least a GUI refresh that is being kept under wraps.

[bousozoku]

It would almost suggest that Keynote is the only running application and it's running a full screen presentation and everything was done with Tiger. ;)

I think Apple is a bit behind schedule with visuals. Of course, they could have just presented their new applications on Tiger, but then, that would make people think that they don't need the under-the-hood enhancements Leopard will likely provide.

I'd bet on the Unified look with more of the dark, translucent dialog boxes.

[shrimpdesign]

The Spotlight icon was also in the dock.
Not to mention an icon next to it ... which looks like Spaces, but isn't.

http://shrimpdesign.com/weird.jpg

[Lollypop]

Not to mention an icon next to it ... which looks like Spaces, but isn't.

http://shrimpdesign.com/weird.jpg

If were starting to analyze the icons in the dock days after the WWDC just imagine what we will be doing days before Mac world paris?!?! :eek: :eek:

I think even though most of use dont realize it we seriously want apple to impress with leopard and kick some vista ass! :D

[ahuman7341]

Its the Exposé icon.

[Project]

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/simplesetup.html

Check the UI at the end of the clip of Leopard Server. The black, transparent, reflective thing thats going on. Has this been used before in Server? It looks sleek. I see Apple using black more and more... iPhoto adjustment panels, Aperture etc...

[jmmo20]

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/simplesetup.html

Check the UI at the end of the clip of Leopard Server. The black, transparent, reflective thing thats going on. Has this been used before in Server? It looks sleek. I see Apple using black more and more... iPhoto adjustment panels, Aperture etc...



That's just a widget

[Project]

That's just a widget

Cant believe I didnt notice the little 'i'

:(

[shrimpdesign]

Its the Exposé icon.
Now that's a reasonable explanation. Exposé was made into an application in Leopard, makes sense it would need an icon. And it makes sense it looks like the Spaces icon as well.

[maxrobertson]

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/simplesetup.html

Check the UI at the end of the clip of Leopard Server. The black, transparent, reflective thing thats going on. Has this been used before in Server? It looks sleek. I see Apple using black more and more... iPhoto adjustment panels, Aperture etc...

I hope not, I really am not a big fan of the black interface. Now, if they let you choose between black & white (as in Graphite vs. Blue) with them both the same
glossy style, I'd like a lot.

Plus it would match the computers.

[sunfast]

I agree with many people here that what we saw was an enhanced version of Tiger with some Leopard features. We won't see how tightly integrated all the new things are, and quite how it will look for some time I reckon. But I'm sure it'll be sweet when we do see it.

[whooleytoo]

Please don't tell me that Exposé and Spaces are going to be omnipresent in the Dock in Leopard - I like to customise my Dock to keep it nice and simple in Panther, I really don't want to have to squeeze in 4 extra permanent icons (Dashboard, Time Machine, Exposé, Spaces) in addition to the Finder and Trash.

[vouder17]

You dont need those icons there. I haven't got the dashboard icon in the dock even though it is considered an app.

[whooleytoo]

You dont need those icons there. I haven't got the dashboard icon in the dock even though it is considered an app.

:o

Woops, would you believe I've never even tried dragging it out, I just assumed you couldn't!

[this is funah]

The just have to do something with Finder... have to.

OK, what is the big deal with everyone saying that the Finder MUST be "revamped"?! what is so desperately wrong with it that it has to be redone? the ONLY specific request i have seen is tabs in the finder windows, which really isnt much of a necessity for "revamping" the Finder.

pleeeease fill me in on all the horrible problems of the Finder from your POV. i "find" it to be just fine.

[LoveMacMini]

OK, what is the big deal with everyone saying that the Finder MUST be "revamped"?! what is so desperately wrong with it that it has to be redone? the ONLY specific request i have seen is tabs in the finder windows, which really isnt much of a necessity for "revamping" the Finder.

pleeeease fill me in on all the horrible problems of the Finder from your POV. i "find" it to be just fine.

no cut command

/argument

[Project]

I never use the Dashboard icon because all you need to do is press F12, but the icon looks cool so I leave it in :D (in fact its one of the best icon metaphors i've ever seen - DashCode is just as beautifully done)

I read somewhere that Apple often "make" stuff like Spotlight an application during development as it makes it easier to code that way, then just hide the front end. Id be astounded if there was an Expose icon in the final release.

[xper]

Yeah i have seen alot of people saying that the finder should be altered but noone have ever said what should be done with it.

So you guys/girls who think that the finder should be changed please write your suggestions.

[maxrobertson]

Yeah i have seen alot of people saying that the finder should be altered but noone have ever said what should be done with it.

So you guys/girls who think that the finder should be changed please write your suggestions.

I'll make a whole thread dedicated to that, because it doesn't really fit here.

[xper]

I'll make a whole thread dedicated to that, because it doesn't really fit here.
Well isn't finder a part of the UI, like this thread is all about?

[maxrobertson]

Well isn't finder a part of the UI, like this thread is all about?

Yeah, but I think this is more about the look of the UI. In any case, I don't have a problem with discussing it here, but if other people want to talk about the Finder, they won't look to do it here...

[Project]

Id definitely be interested in your thoughts. Siracusa's epic didnt quite do it for me.

[thejadedmonkey]

I have to go to dinner, so I must make this quick.

Have you ever used Windows Explorer? yes. good.
Have you ever used Finder? Yes. good.

now tell me which one you are more productive with? Which one has tree-view, cut, easy to move folders, etc.
Windows Explorer, that's it. and since we OS X users prefer to have the 'better' apps, um.. FTFF!

[bousozoku]

I have to go to dinner, so I must make this quick.

Have you ever used Windows Explorer? yes. good.
Have you ever used Finder? Yes. good.

now tell me which one you are more productive with? Which one has tree-view, cut, easy to move folders, etc.
Windows Explorer, that's it. and since we OS X users prefer to have the 'better' apps, um.. FTFF!

Unfortunately, Column View is our Tree View. It works but not very well.

What would make Finder more useful is to allow a window split, so you can leave different parts of the same folder available.

One thing about Finder that truly bothers me is when I'm doing something at least one folder deep, I am returned to the top of the parent folder, not at the position where I was within the folder. It's certainly counterproductive.

[GodBless]

Its the Exposé icon.The full Exposé feature would take up 3 icons. If the icon does represent Exposé anyway I'd assume it is the F9 function (all windows that are unminimized and from unhidden applications).

[SiliconAddict]

OK, what is the big deal with everyone saying that the Finder MUST be "revamped"?! what is so desperately wrong with it that it has to be redone? the ONLY specific request i have seen is tabs in the finder windows, which really isnt much of a necessity for "revamping" the Finder.

pleeeease fill me in on all the horrible problems of the Finder from your POV. i "find" it to be just fine.


This has been gone over a lot. I'll let John take care of explaining why

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/18

PS- check out Path Finder. (http://www.cocoatech.com/) It makes Apple's finder look like a toy. A poorly designed toy that is. No company who only has one developer shouldn't be able to crap on Apple's wares so badly yet that is exactly what PF does.