Windows XP Turns 5! yeah...

[Chrispy]

Well... it was this week 5 years ago that Windows XP graced us all. So... the iPod has been around just about as long as XP. It seems like the ipod has been around forever... then again so does XP. I guess you could argue SP2 was sort of a new release but.. come on haha. At least Vista will be a huge jump forward... right...... right :rolleyes:

As much as I defend XP on this forum, I still stand behind the fact OSX is the better OS by far. This is just another example of how MS is really not on the innovation front.

[Eidorian]

*sigh*

I remember going from 98SE to XP back in 2003. Luckily I never got hit by any of the SP1 worms.

[bousozoku]

WinXP was a lot better than trying to use Win98 or WinME for professional applications and better than Win2000 for more consumer applications, so it's been a good thing. I still think it gets in the way far too much but it's better at a lot of things.

Still, it's not as good or precise as Mac OS X but it works for a lot of sleepy people. :)

[drval]

I've been in the computer world since 80. I've worked on PDPs, Big Iron IBM and Sperry, Wang, DOS, CP/M, Windows, Mac, Sun, etc, etc.

I think there are both valid criticisms of XP (and Windows more generally) but there is also a lot of projected jealousy. One of the pluses of the Mac world is also its greatest limitation (IMO) and that is the tight control over the hardware that Apple compels. In all of the discussions about how "controlling" and dominating MicroSoft has been and is, I have yet to see someone from the Mac community stand up and point out how the Mac OS was relegated to such a small market segment precisely because of how demanding Apple was about hardware. Windows runs -- in the same version -- across an enormous diverisity of hardware platforms. That is both a blessing and a curse. It opens up innovation but it diminishes ease of use, esp when installing new devices and such.

[islandman]

Well... it was this week 5 years ago that Windows XP graced us all. So... the iPod has been around just about as long as XP. It seems like the ipod has been around forever... then again so does XP. I guess you could argue SP2 was sort of a new release but.. come on haha. At least Vista will be a huge jump forward... right...... right :rolleyes:

As much as I defend XP on this forum, I still stand behind the fact OSX is the better OS by far. This is just another example of how MS is really not on the innovation front.

I agree that XP is old, but it was (and still is) very successful as an OS. I agree that OSX is by far a better OS in terms of usability and so on, but XP wins for being good enough at its inception to last this long and still be viable. MS is getting closer with Vista, but I guess they're not as concerned now with innovations as they are with security and compatibility. OSX will probably always be sexier, but Windows/Vista/etc will always be for the masses because it runs on just about anything.

[jimsowden]

It's funny, because most 5 year olds are learning to ride bikes, and they crash less than windows.

[zap2]

5 years wow...look were OS X and OS9 were 5 years ago

[Chrispy]

I agree that XP is old, but it was (and still is) very successful as an OS. I agree that OSX is by far a better OS in terms of usability and so on, but XP wins for being good enough at its inception to last this long and still be viable. MS is getting closer with Vista, but I guess they're not as concerned now with innovations as they are with security and compatibility. OSX will probably always be sexier, but Windows/Vista/etc will always be for the masses because it runs on just about anything.

I agree with you completely. XP was actually very stable back when I was running the beta in 2001. Far better than the 98SE os I was coming from. We still have a lot of people running Win 2000 at work and we are slowly moving over to XP. It really feels like a breath of fresh air to move to XP in comparison. It is just too bad MS can't put more elements into the OS that would make it a more pleasant experience. With 5 years you would think they could have come up with something. But I agree, in the PC world, XP does what it is supposed to do and does it fairly well. OSX just does it so much better. I use XP and will probably continue to use it for some time after Vista is launched.

[drval]

Well it's an interesting issue to consider: why doesn't XP "contain" more functions or capabilities?

In a sense, that was the essence of much of the Federal lawsuit to which MS had to respond. And, in a sense, Gates et al were correct -- users want an "integrated" and "seamless' environment. Now on a certain "closed" architecture, that's known as Mac OS. In the Windows world -- partly because of its market share and partly because of MS's past business practices -- trying to provide such an environment was seen as being "monopolistic" and "predatory".

Now I'm not defending MS -- its policies or past practices -- but I am pointing out that there are a number of reasons for the "safe haven" of Mac OS. Controlling the hardware -- and having a relatively SMALL market share -- means that you really can control the UI and the much of the overall programming environment.

And, just to be clear, I'm also NOT criticizing Apple -- just pointing out some relevant aspects of the history and context for these discussionsl.

[Carguy172]

It's funny, because most 5 year olds are learning to ride bikes, and they crash less than windows.

Xp never crashes maybe if you knew how to use it properly.

[Blue Velvet]

Xp never crashes maybe if you knew how to use it properly.


Why do you need to posses some form of arcane knowledge in order to prevent an operating system from crashing?

[kainjow]

Why do you need to posses some form of arcane knowledge in order to prevent an operating system from crashing?
Well said :)

Unfortunately that pretty much sums up the difference between XP and OS X

[drval]

Arcane? I don't think that an OS that is used by approximately 90% of the world's personal computers could be considered as being "arcane" -- which literally means "known or understood by only a few". Simply do the math and you'll see that, in absolute numbers at least, it would Linux or Mac that was actually "arcane" in terms of overall numbers of computer users.

Can we please keep these kinds of MS-bashing comments to a minimum? I don't really think they add any particular value to any one, esp not those who are trying to use XP or Vista under Boot Camp or Parallels with Mac-based hardware.

It seems to me that the point of this forum is to offer support for serious users but perhaps I'm wrong about that and someting more "arcane" is actually involved in using this forum.

[bousozoku]

Arcane? I don't think that an OS that is used by approximately 90% of the world's personal computers could be considered as being "arcane" -- which literally means "known or understood by only a few". Simply do the math and you'll see that, in absolute numbers at least, it would Linux or Mac that was actually "arcane" in terms of overall numbers of computer users.

Can we please keep these kinds of MS-bashing comments to a minimum? I don't really think they add any particular value to any one, esp not those who are trying to use XP or Vista under Boot Camp or Parallels with Mac-based hardware.

It seems to me that the point of this forum is to offer support for serious users but perhaps I'm wrong about that and someting more "arcane" is actually involved in using this forum.

Used by many and understood by many are two different things. It can definitely be said that Windows is used by many but it cannot be said that it is understood by many.

If Windows was so well understood by the masses, there wouldn't be so many computers out there running as zombies to help spread malware. You must be vigilant daily to make certain that a Windows machine is kept maintained and malware-free. Things are better with Windows XP than they were with Windows 98 but hardly are things as so good as on Mac OS X on its darkest day.

[drval]

...and that vulnerability is, again, mostly due to the high profile and high penetration of Windows, not because it is intriniscally less secure than other OSs.

Given enough reason and even provocation, any OS can be cracked, hacked or hijacked. Mac has escaped that largely because it is so small profile.

And "known" really is the same as "used". The definition included "known".

Can we return to substance now and leave the rest behind?

[Blue Velvet]

...and that vulnerability is, again, mostly due to the high profile and high penetration of Windows, not because it is intriniscally less secure than other OSs.


The security by obscurity argument is so riddled with flaws and FUD that it wearies me to even address it. And in response to your comment above, I believe you have simultaneously missed the point while managing to get unnecessarily indignant.

[chaosbunny]

And "known" really is the same as "used". The definition included "known".

No, it is not the same.

Everybody KNOWS windows, most people USE it, but only a few UNDERSTAND it.

[mad jew]

*Archives thread as PDF*

[drval]

OK, one last note on this and then I'll leave you to the indulgence of your distates.

The definitition of arcane is: "known or understood by only a few".

Something that is KNOWN by MANY can NOT be "known...by only a few", whether or not it is understand. The "...or..." in the definition indicates that there is a choice there, not an inherent combination.

I understand that you believe Windows is difficult to "understand" and, whether that is true or not, is actually completely irrelevant to whether it is "arcane".

[Blue Velvet]

No, the point was: Why should maintaining an operating system in order to keep it running smoothly be some form of knowledge obscured from the user?

[Chundles]

Why should an Operating System need constant vigilance and attention just to make it work?

I have better things to do than coddle Windows through operation in the real world.

[bousozoku]

Why do you need to posses some form of arcane knowledge in order to prevent an operating system from crashing?

OK, one last note on this and then I'll leave you to the indulgence of your distates.

The definitition of arcane is: "known or understood by only a few".

Something that is KNOWN by MANY can NOT be "known...by only a few", whether or not it is understand. The "...or..." in the definition indicates that there is a choice there, not an inherent combination.

I understand that you believe Windows is difficult to "understand" and, whether that is true or not, is actually completely irrelevant to whether it is "arcane".

No one said that Windows itself was arcane, only the knowledge necessary to keep it running smoothly.

[Graeme A]

5 years, wow! And to think that there are still some people yet to upgrade to it in my office.

It is amazing to see how much the OS'es have evolved over the last 5 years as a deliverable product and something still waiting to be released in the near/distant future.

Competition is good for Apple and Microsoft, it keeps them on their toes. I'm just pleased that I got XP Pro as part of Microsoft's Action Pack instead of spending $$$ on it. The savings made there, I have spent with Norton for AV/firewall software. Now that is a bitch with XP... Buy the OS and pay an annual fee to another company just to keep running the darn thing.

PS: Love the 'archive as a PDF' comment :)

[drval]

"No one said that Windows itself was arcane, only the knowledge necessary to keep it running smoothly."

What's so arcane? It's actually pretty simple but it seems like, no matter what, some of you just want to continue to trash XP and MS. OK, have fun. I'm returning to actually making substantial contributions and looking for useful information.

[Nym]

Ah geez, the endless XP vs OSX battle.. just leave it alone. If you like Windows, use it, if you like OSX buy a mac... It's just a matter of choice and although I prefer OSX I have 3 PC's at home and respect the people who use them.
I just don't like Microsomething as a company, their way of doing business and their corporate objective. Other than that, I will gladly use XP to run games and OSX for everything else. IMO OSX is better because every year comes a new release, fixing issues and adding features, getting refreshed, however, XP just stood still in time, 5 years? whow :D it's natural they're behind. Let's wait for Vista... and Leopard.

I guess that every opinion here is based on experience with both OS's, some people claim that windows crashes all the time, others say OSX crashes just the same, in my personal experience I've never had a OSX system crash (the one's that make you restart the OS) just the occasional Force Quit.. however, just last night my GF was showing me some work stuff on her PC Laptop and BANG .. BSOD out of nowhere...
But I'm sure Mac's crash as well, they're made by people after all :S

[contoursvt]

Hmmm maybe people have not upgraded because Win2k is pretty solid so if it aint broke, dont fix it. Also you wasted your money on Nortons and getting a firewall in the form of software that you paid for. Dont blame anyone but yourself for not doing some research.

XP's firewall actually works quite well and its free with SP2 but I think its still best to have a hardware firewall / router as well. Avast and AVG are 100% free antivirus software that work well.



5 years, wow! And to think that there are still some people yet to upgrade to it in my office.

It is amazing to see how much the OS'es have evolved over the last 5 years as a deliverable product and something still waiting to be released in the near/distant future.

Competition is good for Apple and Microsoft, it keeps them on their toes. I'm just pleased that I got XP Pro as part of Microsoft's Action Pack instead of spending $$$ on it. The savings made there, I have spent with Norton for AV/firewall software. Now that is a bitch with XP... Buy the OS and pay an annual fee to another company just to keep running the darn thing.

PS: Love the 'archive as a PDF' comment :)

[contoursvt]

At my work, the only crashing is done by Apple hardware its running on. Replaced 2 SATA 160gig drives, one ibook keyboard, one PSU from a dual 2Ghz G5 tower, PSU from a dual 2.5 G5 tower and a logic board in an imac G5....luckily we had purchased extended warranty. These machines are 2.5 years old or less.

In the same time frame, I have replaced one 2gig hard drive from a Pentium 60 box which was acting as a terminal and one DVD burner in a 3 year old P4 HP box. Oh and I replaced a noisy fan in a PC tower case.

See whats funny is that we have 100 users in the building and every single person has a computer. Out of those 100, 15 have Apple products so in relation to whats actually failed per user, Apple is doing horribly bad in our environment.

Thats the hardware side. Software side is more even I can say I've had to troubleshoot both Windows and OSX as often. Windows sometimes doing quirky things until I dump the temp folder or reboot..etc.... OSX having printing issues like print jobs just vanishing into thin air (frequently) and restarting fixes it.


Anyway the moral of the story is that you should get off your high horse. Just because you tried windows 95 and it blue screened once on some crappy noname hardware that you dont even know who put together doesnt mean XP is crappy. I installed XP about 1.5 years ago on my dual xeon box and its going strong. I dont even run antivirus or anti spyware. I just dont surf p0rn or go to mystery sites trying to get illegal software and all is good. Also my win2k server has been running since 2003 on the same OS and its running a webserver, FTP, exchange server and file server. I can count on one hand the number of lockups and blue screens I've had between the two boxes. So thas less than 5 between 2 computers with a combined running time of 4-5 years.


It's funny, because most 5 year olds are learning to ride bikes, and they crash less than windows.

[breakfastcrew]

At my work, the only crashing is done by Apple hardware its running on. Replaced 2 SATA 160gig drives, one ibook keyboard, one PSU from a dual 2Ghz G5 tower, PSU from a dual 2.5 G5 tower and a logic board in an imac G5....luckily we had purchased extended warranty. These machines are 2.5 years old or less.

In the same time frame, I have replaced one 2gig hard drive from a Pentium 60 box which was acting as a terminal and one DVD burner in a 3 year old P4 HP box. Oh and I replaced a noisy fan in a PC tower case.

See whats funny is that we have 100 users in the building and every single person has a computer. Out of those 100, 15 have Apple products so in relation to whats actually failed per user, Apple is doing horribly bad in our environment.

Thats the hardware side. Software side is more even I can say I've had to troubleshoot both Windows and OSX as often. Windows sometimes doing quirky things until I dump the temp folder or reboot..etc.... OSX having printing issues like print jobs just vanishing into thin air (frequently) and restarting fixes it.


Anyway the moral of the story is that you should get off your high horse. Just because you tried windows 95 and it blue screened once on some crappy noname hardware that you dont even know who put together doesnt mean XP is crappy. I installed XP about 1.5 years ago on my dual xeon box and its going strong. I dont even run antivirus or anti spyware. I just dont surf p0rn or go to mystery sites trying to get illegal software and all is good. Also my win2k server has been running since 2003 on the same OS and its running a webserver, FTP, exchange server and file server. I can count on one hand the number of lockups and blue screens I've had between the two boxes. So thas less than 5 between 2 computers with a combined running time of 4-5 years.



LOL I logged on just to say I love you man.

[Cassie]

Geez, whats with the 98 SE comments? I think it's the most stable OS microsft ever made.

(Let the disagrements begin :D )

And I agree with you 100% contoursvt You present a valid point. Windows really is a good OS. Its just more open to viruses and stuff becasue it's the most widely used of the OS's.

[contoursvt]

Thanks guys :) Well I saw all the stupid windows bashing and had to give my 2 cents worth. Hehe.

[dextertangocci]

Xp never crashes maybe if you knew how to use it properly.

But you can't get to use it properly, because it crashes before you try to do anything on it;)

It's time to face the truth everyone: windoze sucks, it's a fact

[contoursvt]

But you can't get to use it properly, because it crashes before you try to do anything on it;)

It's time to face the truth everyone: windoze sucks, it's a fact


;) maybe it wouldnt crash on you right away if you knew how to use it....PS. you need to get your facts straight LOL.. Also if it sucked so bad, why is everyone rushing to put it on their Mac? LOL

[dextertangocci]

.....why is everyone rushing to put it on their Mac? LOL

I certainly don't have it on my mac. Even if I do a spotlight search with the word "microsoft" in it, not a single thing comes up, and no, not even their fonts, because I've deleted them, except a few PDF's of web pages that I've saved about how much windoze sucks;)

[contoursvt]

I certainly don't have it on my mac. Even if I do a spotlight search with the word "microsoft" in it, not a single thing comes up, and no, not even their fonts, because I've deleted them, except a few PDF's of web pages that I've saved about how much windoze sucks;)

LOL thats nice for you but considering there are 1600+ threads on this very new section of macforums, I'd say I'm right ;)

[Bismarck]

You must be vigilant daily to make certain that a Windows machine is kept maintained and malware-free.

I have been running Win2000 for years without being vigilant, and never had a problem. I set up a router with a firewall, set up a software firewall, set up a virus scanner. It didn't take rocket science to do these steps, though I'm a programmer, anyone with good reading comprehension skills could have followed the instructions.

I haven't updated the virus scanner signatures in a couple of years. (Like the mechanic whose car is in worse shape than anyone else's). But everything is going smoothly. Same goes for an XP laptop.

It's just a matter of common sense. People need to know not to walk through crowds with their wallet poking out their back pockets. They need to know to do a few basic setups and be careful that when they walk into the internet, there are dark alleys that you don't want to go in without protection. But the lure of "free" stuff, or gambling, or porn puts them at risk. Same as walking into a drug market or red light district.