OmniWeb 4.1 ?? [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

AlphaTech

Mar 5, 2002, 05:47 PM

I downloaded the latest non-beta version of Omniweb just to see what it is like. One problem right off the bat that I came up with. I went to www.harley-davidson.com and was told that the browser doesn't have enough horsepower. Imagine that....

I wonder if the next version will overcome that kind of problem.

AmbitiousLemon

Mar 5, 2002, 07:21 PM

it said not enough horsepower? thats funny stuff. it might be the use of flash (just a wild guess). got to love those harley web designers though for that kind of error message.

AlphaTech

Mar 5, 2002, 07:27 PM

I got a kick out of it... Check it out if you have Omniweb on your system... :D

kishba

Mar 5, 2002, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
I downloaded the latest non-beta version of Omniweb just to see what it is like. One problem right off the bat that I came up with. I went to www.harley-davidson.com and was told that the browser doesn't have enough horsepower. Imagine that....

I wonder if the next version will overcome that kind of problem.

you can already get over the "problem"

basically the site checks to see what browser your using... if the "name" isn't ie or netscape it won't let you in

you can bypass this in the preferences panel "compatibility" in omniweb (just change the name to pc ie for kicks)

hope that helps!

AlphaTech

Mar 5, 2002, 08:29 PM

kishba, doesn't fly... even setting the netscape version higher then what it is asking for doesn't help.

Looks like it is too limited for my needs... Unless someone knows exactly what to put in those fields to make it fool web sites... Every other browser that I have has no problems getting to the site. Omni is the ONLY one to make it say ***** off and get a better browser... oh well, back to IE and Netscrape

AlphaTech

Mar 5, 2002, 08:35 PM

I just sent an email to the Omni people... I wonder if I will ever hear back from them.

kishba

Mar 5, 2002, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
kishba, doesn't fly... even setting the netscape version higher then what it is asking for doesn't help.

Looks like it is too limited for my needs... Unless someone knows exactly what to put in those fields to make it fool web sites... Every other browser that I have has no problems getting to the site. Omni is the ONLY one to make it say ***** off and get a better browser... oh well, back to IE and Netscrape

i went to there web site after selecting the pc ie from the drop down menu

Kid Red

Mar 5, 2002, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
I downloaded the latest non-beta version of Omniweb just to see what it is like. One problem right off the bat that I came up with. I went to www.harley-davidson.com and was told that the browser doesn't have enough horsepower. Imagine that....

I wonder if the next version will overcome that kind of problem.

Well, if that's your only hang up, go get the latest version, harleydavidson worked fine for me in OW. IE is more supported but is still the crappiest of the bunch. I can't wait for a few more tweaks to OW, that's why 4.1 isn't out yet. As long as they keep relasing sneakypeek biulds and there are some issues, I'd imagine the longer it will take to get to 4.1

AlphaTech

Mar 5, 2002, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by kishba

i went to there web site after selecting the pc ie from the drop down menu

Where??? I don't see any drop down menu's in that section of the preferences. Remember, this is the NON-BETA version.

This is getting wayyyyyyyy too complicated... IE and netscape are both click and go... no jumping through hoops just to go to a site.

At this point, I could make a list the length of my arm about the flaws in all three browsers. At least I can go to every site I want to in both ie and netscape right off the bat.

chmorley

Mar 5, 2002, 11:01 PM

If you haven't tried Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org/) yet, you should. It is fast and compliant.

The one that I think will catch up to (and surpass) OmniWeb soon is Chimera (http://chimera.mozdev.org/). While it is not yet ready for prime time, I think it will be soon.

OW is pretty, but slow. Chimera promises a Cocoa browser with an Aqua front end. While the Quartz anti-aliasing isn't yet finished, the developers say it will be soon. It is already blazingly fast. If the Omni group doesn't get on the stick, they will be irrelevant.

Chris

AlphaTech

Mar 5, 2002, 11:05 PM

Tried mozilla... it's just as ugly as netscape is. I wanted to try the theme feature on it, and it crashed. If it doesn't support that option, then it shouldn't be in the menu. That was the first time a browser crashed when trying to get to one of the built in features. At least, under OS X, and for me.

People have been praising the other browsers, and bashing ie and netscape so much that I figured I would give them a try. Say what you like about ie and netscape, they are very easy to use. With minimal configuring if any.

AlphaTech

Mar 5, 2002, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by chmorley
If you haven't tried Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org/) yet, you should. It is fast and compliant.

The one that I think will catch up to (and surpass) OmniWeb soon is Chimera (http://chimera.mozdev.org/). While it is not yet ready for prime time, I think it will be soon.

OW is pretty, but slow. Chimera promises a Cocoa browser with an Aqua front end. While the Quartz anti-aliasing isn't yet finished, the developers say it will be soon. It is already blazingly fast. If the Omni group doesn't get on the stick, they will be irrelevant.

Chris

Well what do ya know... Once I was actually able to get down to Chimera and download it, it works better then omniweb. No error messages about needing to update my browser (HD site for ow). It did take longer to load, but maybe that will improve with time.

I do not like the fact that you cannot change the preferences though. Nor can you organize your bookmarks, or import them from other applications. It still needs major work to come close to what I need. I originally thought it could, but have to take that back.

kishba

Mar 6, 2002, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by AlphaTech

Where??? I don't see any drop down menu's in that section of the preferences. Remember, this is the NON-BETA version.

This is getting wayyyyyyyy too complicated... IE and netscape are both click and go... no jumping through hoops just to go to a site.

At this point, I could make a list the length of my arm about the flaws in all three browsers. At least I can go to every site I want to in both ie and netscape right off the bat.

I'm using the beta version... sorry for the confusion--but you should try the sneaky peaks (beta) there is nothing buggy about it.

prechrchet

Mar 6, 2002, 09:02 AM

<<Where??? I don't see any drop down menu's in that section of the
preferences. Remember, this is the NON-BETA version. >>

Go to the Omni Web Menu (just to the right of the apple menu) and click on "Preferences." This will bring up the prefrences panel, and the compatibilty icon should be there.

Chet

sparkleytone

Mar 6, 2002, 09:12 AM

Alpha you should have read my post about getting flash to work. It works fine for me if I identify as IE 5.1 OS X.

Make sure that flash is working www.shockwave.com is what i use to test.

If not, download the latest os X version which is available at the apple OS X site.

then view info on the omniweb.app and go to plugins. add the Shockwave plugin from Internet Plug-Ins.

again, you should really use at least the latest beta if not the latest sneakypeeks, they are very stable and MUCH faster. also, HTML parsing is getting much cleaner, more compliant, and Netscape plugin support is working pretty well.

Taft

Mar 6, 2002, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by AlphaTech

Well what do ya know... Once I was actually able to get down to Chimera and download it, it works better then omniweb. No error messages about needing to update my browser (HD site for ow). It did take longer to load, but maybe that will improve with time.

The problem in loading the site in OW is as much the site's fault as it is OmniWeb's. The site is expecting ALL BROWSERS that hit the site to be either IE or Netscape. If your browser doesn't identify itself as either IE or Netscape the Harley site just gives up regardless of wether or not the site will load on your browser of choice.

The last time I checked, there were more than two browsers in the world, making Harley's limitation a bit extreme. The only thing OmniWeb could do differently is to identify itself as another browser by default, which is problematic.

However, the real source of the problem is the lack of standards for browsers. If there were any kind of Javascript or html tag standards, these problems wouldn't exists and all pages would be viewable on any properly implemented browser. If you want to lay fault, lay fault on the browser war and, more directly, MS.

Matthew

AlphaTech

Mar 6, 2002, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by mrtrumbe

The problem in loading the site in OW is as much the site's fault as it is OmniWeb's. The site is expecting ALL BROWSERS that hit the site to be either IE or Netscape. If your browser doesn't identify itself as either IE or Netscape the Harley site just gives up regardless of wether or not the site will load on your browser of choice.

The last time I checked, there were more than two browsers in the world, making Harley's limitation a bit extreme. The only thing OmniWeb could do differently is to identify itself as another browser by default, which is problematic.

However, the real source of the problem is the lack of standards for browsers. If there were any kind of Javascript or html tag standards, these problems wouldn't exists and all pages would be viewable on any properly implemented browser. If you want to lay fault, lay fault on the browser war and, more directly, MS.

Matthew

Judging by my own experience, as well as people I talk with on a daily basis, I would say that about 99% of the world uses either ie or netscape. I wouldn't expect any site to try and cater to the 1% or less of the systems out there. Considering how just about every system shipped comes with either ie or netscape pre-installed, asking sites to be compatible with the others is a bit much. I would more likely ask the people that make the other browsers to make sure they are compatible with sites optimized for either ie and/or netscape. Then you wouldn't need to ***** with the preferences and such just to use it for sites you visit often.

Taft

Mar 6, 2002, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by AlphaTech

Then you wouldn't need to ***** with the preferences and such just to use it for sites you visit often.

But OmniWeb *is* compatible with the web site. I visited it this morning. Half of the problem is that OmniWeb *identifies* itself as itself and does not try to fool the site into thinking its IE or Netscape. The other half is that the site does not even try to send content to a browser it deems unable to handle the content.

I place more blame on Harley's site. They judge a browser worthy of content based only on the name of the browser. There are technical reasons to require a specific browser to view a site (notable examples of this are when developers choose to develop a site using IE specific code--then a Netscape browser can't handle the site). While OmniWeb is capable of handling a lot of code for either IE or Netscape, they are much closer to Netscape in implementation.

The bottom line is that OmniWeb identifies itself as a Mozilla compliant browser BY DEFAULT. Mozilla is the same engine new versions of Netscape use. The fact that Harley ignores this and doesn't even try to send content to a perfectly capable browser is simply LAZY CODING.

OmniWeb is not perfect, but it's creators have very little control over this problem. It all goes back to a lack of accetable web standards and a proliferation of incompatible code on the internet.

Matthew

sparkleytone

Mar 6, 2002, 11:07 AM

alpha i think you missed the point. The point is that in the early days of the browsers, before netscape v. m$ , the movement for web development was for HTML to be an open standard. STANDARD meaning the same everywhere. M$ was caught with its pants down and had to switch the company focus to the internet. They began competing with netscape and when they couldnt win, gave IE away for free. It has worked out okay for most people, because everyone has a browser that is free, but thats not why they did it. They couldnt compete, so they gave it away and began integrating it into the architecture. as they developed IE and their internet-based products, m$ decided to use the word STANDARD on their own terms, thus contradicting the word "standard". But this is m$ and they get away with everything. so now we live in a world wher most sites are designed for m$ ie using crap like Frontpage. Netscape has had to conform to many m$ standards in order to maintain its being an accurate browser.

My longwinded point is, don't blame the browsers, blame the lack of standards. The Omnigroup has done an amazing job making OmniWeb a fast, beautiful browser that is getting better with every build, and is damn near the point of complete compliance with all "standards". The Omnigroup also takes a nice healthy stance on open standards, especially with their icon "Not to shabby in OmniWeb"

sparkleytone

Mar 17, 2002, 07:42 PM

Yet again, a new sneakypeak has enhanced the functionality of OW. sp58 is doing all my java stuff right now, and im seeing less and less HTML errors.

Taft

Mar 17, 2002, 09:47 PM

I'm having some memory problems with OW right now (sp 58). Looks to be some small memory leak. Every once in a while it'll get up to 25 percent mem usage on basic sites.

Its not frequent and is one of only a couple of problems I have with the browsers. Its still my favorite browser for OS X by far.

Matthew

GeeYouEye

Mar 18, 2002, 02:39 AM

GREAT NEWS, for sp58!! It finally doesn't crash if you go to apple.com and then another site without waiting for Apple to finish!! Yay!! Hmm... memory leaks are a problem. Hopefully they'll fix it in sp 59 or 60 (real release??)

Microsoft_Windows_Hater

Mar 18, 2002, 05:02 AM

I would say that nothing really compares to OmniWeb in terms of usability and compatibility. It supports Netscape plugins perfectly, is getting faster, makes everything beautiful and really is a joy to use, just like the operating system that it runs in.

AndreHAL

Mar 23, 2002, 02:02 PM

i don't know how well it works on the mac, but the pc version is great. anyway, they have a carbon(beta) release.
Check it out, i would like to know if it's any good.
http://www.opera.com/

André

GeeYouEye

Mar 23, 2002, 04:41 PM

OmniWeb 4.1 sp61 is out.

Nipsy

Mar 24, 2002, 01:32 AM

...but the single best thing about OmniWeb is its ability to kill pop up ad windows, and hide banners. This is the World's Best Feature!

I try SO hard to use OmniWeb, but it won't peacefully share my master bookmarks file.

AmbitiousLemon

Mar 24, 2002, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by Nipsy
...but the single best thing about OmniWeb is its ability to kill pop up ad windows, and hide banners. This is the World's Best Feature!

mozilla also does this.

Originally posted by Nipsy
I try SO hard to use OmniWeb, but it won't peacefully share my master bookmarks file.

:) so do i. everytime a new sneaky peek comes out i rush on over to download it. but i think the fact that we have to try so hard is a bit wrong. i like the quite from their website "We think it's important to polish every user interaction to make sure that the browser acts the way you want it to — so you can stop thinking about the application you're using and just get at the information you want, quickly. " too bad this isnt true though. they seem to have forgotten the most important part of a browser RENDERING PAGES CORRECTLY! but they are getting better, still seems like they should concentrate on this before adding all the goodies.

sparkleytone

Mar 25, 2002, 08:07 AM

new sneakypeek 62 is sexyfast, approaching mozilla-speeds. STILL a few html render bugz, but mostly it is just much faster.

Taft

Mar 25, 2002, 08:58 AM

For how new Omniweb is (relative to IE or Netscape) it really works well. Also, IE sometimes screws up pages that OW renders correctly. Have you ever gotten the endless popup bug where a popup window will continuously appear even if the window is already open? IE makes mistakes too.

And OW is getting much better. Not perfect yet though. Does anyone else get this problem with Javascript...

If a page uses Javascript navigation and has pictures linked on the page, if you click on a picture then click back to the page, the Javascript navigation no longer works. Very annoying.

Overall, I use IE for almost everything. Every once in a while I need IE. The thing is, if I were using IE I would end up having to use Netscape or Omniweb from time to time to make things work correctly. I don't think any browser is perfect.

Matthew

Biggles

Mar 25, 2002, 10:33 AM

where do u get those little "sp58, sp61, etc" upgrades? i can't find them on omnigroup's website or versiontracker

GeeYouEye

Mar 25, 2002, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Biggles
where do u get those little "sp58, sp61, etc" upgrades? i can't find them on omnigroup's website or versiontracker

go to: ftp://www.omnigroup.com/pub/software/MacOSX/.sneakypeek/releases

AmbitiousLemon

Mar 25, 2002, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by mrtrumbe
Every once in a while I need IE. The thing is, if I were using IE I would end up having to use Netscape or Omniweb from time to time to make things work correctly. I don't think any browser is perfect.

Matthew

i use mozilla as my primary browser. havent had ie installed in quite some time and have never needed it. this is why it is my browser of choice, because although it isnt the perfect app it is the perfect browser... i never need anything else.

i download the omniweb sneaky peaks as soon as they come out to take a look, and play in chimera for fun sometimes but never NEED to use these, they are just fun to play with now and then... a look at the future.

one of these days omniweb and/or chimera will get their acts together and then we will have a browser that looks good, is fast, and renders pages correctly... until then i am forced to ignore looks and go for speed and functionality rather than the good looks that omniweb goes for.

Taft

Mar 25, 2002, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon

one of these days omniweb and/or chimera will get their acts together and then we will have a browser that looks good, is fast, and renders pages correctly... until then i am forced to ignore looks and go for speed and functionality rather than the good looks that omniweb goes for.

Just curious, how do you think OW sneakypeeks compare to Netscape in rendering speed? I find them almost as fast as Netscape--just a tad bit slower. IE definitely lags both.

Matthew

AmbitiousLemon

Mar 25, 2002, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by mrtrumbe

Just curious, how do you think OW sneakypeeks compare to Netscape in rendering speed? I find them almost as fast as Netscape--just a tad bit slower. IE definitely lags both.

Matthew

well i wasnt going to say anything ebcause im trying to be more positive lately but since you asked...

i dont compare omniweb to netscape since its an old version of mozilla (.94 i think someone here said?) and it is also slowed down but a bunch of aol crap. so i compare it to the latest Mozilla .99. Omniweb isnt even in the same class as Mozilla (and mozilla now will be netscape later if you are pushing that comparison). After using Mozilla exclusively for some time i cant even tell the difference between the latest sneakypeek and ie. they are both just so much slower.

i think omniweb has a LONG way to go before it can compare itself to the big boys. as of now its slow and it renders pages incorrectly. although i want a good looking browser i wont sacrifice functionality. with mozilla's osx look now im not so disgusted with it anymore. i can live without antialiasing until chimera comes out with version .2, and when that happens chimera will be ahead of omniweb when chimera is barely 2 months old.

Taft

Mar 26, 2002, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
well i wasnt going to say anything ebcause im trying to be more positive lately but since you asked...

...

After using Mozilla exclusively for some time i cant even tell the difference between the latest sneakypeek and ie. they are both just so much slower.

i think omniweb has a LONG way to go before it can compare itself to the big boys. as of now its slow and it renders pages incorrectly.

...

I downloaded Mozilla last night and I have to admit it is blazingly fast in rendering. Much faster than IE, OW or Netscape 6.2. However, I still think bandwidth is what is slowing me down the most (even with DSL). Also, I find Mozilla slower in other operations--like downloading inline images from thrid party sites, navigating using back and forward, and GUI operations in general--are slow enough to make the overall speed of Mozilla only a little bit faster than OW overall.

I think I'm going to try using Mozilla more. It seems to be a great browser.

In regards to the incorrect rendering of pages by OW, I don't have many troubles. Any troubles I do have are related to CSS and Javascript and most browsers don't get these right anyway. I would say that it renders over 95% of pages correctly in my experience. Also, Mozilla rendered some pages incorrectly in my short time using it last night. Minor asthetic stuff, but not correctly, nonetheless.

For me, the browser war is still on. And AmbitiousLemon, don't try too hard to be positive...you usually add some spark to this site!

Anyone know where I can get the Aqua theme for Mozilla? I can't find it except for references to it all over the web. No downloads...

Matthew

AmbitiousLemon

Mar 26, 2002, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by mrtrumbe

Anyone know where I can get the Aqua theme for Mozilla? I can't find it except for references to it all over the web. No downloads...

Matthew

http://homepage.mac.com/kgerich/pinstripe.html

the new one just came out today. you need mozilla .99+ and yes it also works in the Mach-O builds.

i found mozilla A LOT faster after using pinstripe.