Mac OS 10.2 WishList

[AmbitiousLemon]

In an old thread titled something like "does anybody actually like the new mac os desktop?" i created a quick list of features/bug fixes i wanted to see in mac os x.

i have been keeping a list of these and have added to them and edited them over the last few weeks.

with all the speculation on mac os 10.2 lately i thought now might be a good time to unveil the ambitiouslemon bugfix/feature list version .2.

i tried to give credit where credit is due, but let me know if i screwed anything up:

from krishba there should be a filter field in the toolbar of a window. so i can go to customize toolbar and put a filter field there. when one types in the field the items displayed in the window are dynamically filtered according to what is being typed (like in iTunes). arn tells us one can do this in the terminal so perhaps it will not be so difficult to implement in aqua.

When a folder window is minimized to the dock you should be able to drag files to the minimized window and thereby drop files into that folder.

one should be able to save windows in the dock just as one saves links, apps, folders and drives. so that one can always open a particular folder just by clicking on the dock.

there should be an option to include drives, removable media (cds dvds), and servers on the dock. so with this option enabled i could insert a cd and have it appear in the dock much like a launched application would. this makes it much easier to access that cd or dvd when my desktop is cluttered with various windows.

windows should not open behind the dock. this should function just as the menubar does. it prohibits windows from passing behind it.

organization in dock in which apps, docs, windows, folders, and drives are kept separate and the user can choose the order in which these are arranged. a dock customization feature implemented just how the toolbar customization is set up could make this very user friendly.

from dantec - a cursor shadow. everything else in osx has drop shadows why not the cursor?

preference panel in which one can specify applications that auto hide the dock. so if i usually have the dock visible i could launch adobe photoshop (which i had chosen in my preference panel as an app to autohide the dock) the dock hides and responds just as it would if i had chosen to have it hidden. but when i quit or move to another app the dock comes back and responds just as if it would without the autohide feature.

(this one from mrtrumbe) windows and documents in the doc should have some sort of stamp indicating the application they are operating in. (mouse over only gives name not application). i think this could function in a way similiar to mail.app and adium's notifications. where a small graphical stamp is place over the window or file of choice.

finder (mac smiley) dock icon should provide notification of finder tasks such as copying files etc. notification should be along same model as previous item

apple should encourage software developers to create dynamic icons that provide vital information visually, much like the notifications of mail.app and adium. behaivior such as bouncing can annoy many users so visual cues are better. Visual cues like those provided by adium should be encouraged. adium is the perfect model of how all dock icons (apps, windows, finder icon) should behaive.

option to toggle the default folder behavior in the dock. by default now a single click opens a window and a click-hold or control-click opens a contextual menu. there should be an option to flip this behavior where the default could be a single click opens the contextual menu and a click-hold or control click opens a window.

a replacement for windowshade function. minimizing is a good tool but it is something entirely different from windowshade. either windowshade function exactly or something new that gets a window out of the way but keeps it on the desktop. those videos of the mini windows in 10.2 might pull this off, i think i will need to play with it for awhile before decided, but im leaning towards no since it seems like far too much work to get the same result a double click windowshade.

tabbed window browsing as in mozilla, adium, limewire, system preferences, and apple's website. this is a great way to have the function of multiple windows and the simplicity of a single window. this could be seen also as an evolution of the tabbed windows in os9. spring loaded folders and this could work by dragging an item to the tab of another folder and thus flipping to the other tab, or by actually moving through folder icons.

all icons on the dock should have the option of being removed, including the finder icon... its just staring at me, smiling and mocking me! "i am here forever, you cant move me!!!" it seems to say in its ghastly stare. but all joking aside, some people do not need/want the finder icon on their dock.

windows should remember their file size, and icon arrangement even after a restart. this seems simple. but whenever i open my applications folder it is not the size i left it. perhaps a "save window position" like in omniweb could be used to save a certain window position and size.

when navigating windows with the "always open folders in a new window" preference turned off the new window should open in its saved state, not in the state of the window that was previously open. in other words it should function much like opening a folding while holding down the option key, but retain the history in the back button. this seems to be what apple is getting at with the "keep window's view the same when opening other folders in the window" option, but it seems whether this is checked it or not the function decribed in that option is always used.

all windows should by default be set to global (this is what global means). one can then change all of one's windows by adjusting the global options. if one wants things different in a particular window then one uses the "this window only" option. third parties should provide power users with the option for multiple "global" settings, ie multiple sets of default window states. i would love to have one for my classic drive and one for my x drive. also the option for cascading window states as in the third party utility from os9 "window monkey" where the settings for one window automatically applied to all those enclosed (obviously this would need to be an option not set by default).

the green button should function properly even if i have snap to grid or keep arranged by checked. is it so much to ask that the green button work properly? when the "keep arranged by.." option is chosen and one trys to use the green button the right side of the window crops the window too close thereby forcing the windows aloong the edge to move to th next row. when the "snap to grid" option is chosen the green button resizes so that there is too much room at the top of a window. when none of these is checked then things crop properly to the right and bottom but it does not crop the left or top of a window. this seems like a very serious bug and i cant believe we are in version 10.1.3 and still have not fixed this. this is the number one reason osx feels like betaware.

springloaded folders

the ticks in the icon resizing preferences in the finder and in the dock should have a tick and list the corresponding pixels.

a contextual menu option to size icons individually independent of the size of the other icons in the window/desktop.

classic windows should be just as aware of the dock and menubar as aqua windows.

an option for a visual cue of the classic state and an easy way to start it up or shut it down. if not in the dock then in the menubar like the battery, monitor, sound,and ppoe status icons. its annoying having to be always opening preferences to see if os9 is running and to shut it down if it is. a small black and white icon in the menubar next to my battery icon would be very nice.

option to remove recent items from apple menu.

alias's placed in the dock should not display an alias arrow while in the dock. dock icons should be considered a whole separate entity, you have window icons and dynamic dock icons, so dropping a alias in the dock should display its dynamic icon not its window icon with the alias arrow. custom dynamic icons should be created using the method used by adium.

windows with a large number of files/apps should open in a reasonable amount of time. another of my big reasons for starting up in classic, sometimes i need to open folders with large numbers.

scrolling in windows needs to be accelerated (perhaps using some sort fo caching)

an option to "drop" a folder window onto the desktop. what do i mean by this? suppose on my desktop i have two word documents and a stuffit document. i then have a window open with various video clips that i will be working on for awhile. i should be able to (through a contectual menu or key command) automatically make the contents of the window appear on the desktop. i then work with these files off my desktop for a day, and then press the same keycommand or contextual menu option, and the items from that window are removed from the desktop and appear again as a window on my desktop. the items are originally on the desktop stay there while the ones from the window move back to the window. applications while saving or opening can save to desktop and will appear on the desktop or save to the folder being displayed on the desktop and also appear on the desktop (but these will be picked up when one picks the folder up while items saved to the desktop will remain on the desktop). this provides the functionality of taking a stack of papers out of ones desk or filing cabinet and spreading the files out on your desk as you use it.

[AmbitiousLemon]

and if you actually read all of that then i congratulate and thank you. :)

please add your own comments and i will continue building my list (maybe i will add my edits to the original list up there).

peace

[kishba]

sounds great... hopefully apple can work on these :)

[OSeXy!]

That is some serious, good, hard thinking, 'Lemon. Now I want everything you mentioned.


EDIT>>

Oh, yeah: also, 'OS X: special geriatric's edition for G3'.

[Taft]

Even though I don't want some of the things in the list, the *option* to have all of these things would be great.

The one thing I think OS X is missing is the ability to customize it.

[chant with me now...]
More options.
More options.
More options.
More options.
...

Matthew

[cleo]

Originally posted by mrtrumbe
The one thing I think OS X is missing is the ability to customize it.


I TOTALLY agree. Clearly the capability is there; just look at the mind-boggling options available in Adium.

My number one complaint: (disclaimer: I have a hunch that this has more to do with the software developers than with the OS, but I don't know, maybe Carbon could be improved...)

OK :) My number one complaint:
When I've set the scroll bar behavior to "scroll to here" it only seems to work in Cocoa apps. I would kill for it to work in Word, especially because I'm often working with 200+ page documents. Having to go through the thought process "Oh, right, I'm in Word, better go grab the scroll bar and slide it around" is annoying and wasteful.

[Catfish_Man]

...to specify the icon of minimized windows, so that instead of looking like a little tiny window, minimized IE windows had a special icon, minimized word documents had another, etc...
I really like the dock, but for people with 20 or 30 windows open it must be next to impossible to tell them apart. Also, it would be cool if there was another divider on the dock (like the one that seperates folders/windows from apps) for open applications so that when you opened an app it would move there and to see which apps you had open you would just glance at which ones are past the divider (this would be an option, of course). OSX has plenty of customization, just none of it has a way of getting to it. Tinkertool just taps into features with no activation control, so OSX should have everything tinkertool can do built in.

[pc_convert?]

Not that I've used OSX but I don't think it supports multiple workspaces like most Linux window managers.

Windows doesn't support this feature either. BeOS did used to have multiple 'desktops'/workspaces and it really is useful, especially when each desktop can be a different resolution
(useful for detailed image editing).

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by pc_convert?
Not that I've used OSX but I don't think it supports multiple workspaces like most Linux window managers.

Windows doesn't support this feature either. BeOS did used to have multiple 'desktops'/workspaces and it really is useful, especially when each desktop can be a different resolution
(useful for detailed image editing).

You can run XWindows and one of the windows managers (KDE, GNOME) in OS X.
No, it's not built in, but I don't think the demand is that high. Mac newbies (former PC users) have a hard enough time with the whole Finder and "closing window doesn't close application" ideas. Multiple desktops would equal cranial overload.

[sockdoggy]

They need to add a special control panel for customizing sound from iSub, Sticks, and other speakers.

[pc_convert?]

Rower_CPU said,
Multiple desktops would equal cranial overload.
It's not that confusing, anyway the default could be 1 desktop with the option to add more as you wish.

I really didn't see the point of multiple desktops when I first tried Linux but now I can't see how I managed without them.

Also if OSX were to include multiple desktops it would be the only comercial OS to do so (I might be wrong). Multiple desktops isn't some gimmick for the sake of 1-up-manship it really is useful when you get the idea, and could probably be implemented very easily.

[mischief]

I wanna run my iTunes visualizer as a Desktop picture!:cool: :rolleyes: :D

[AmbitiousLemon]

well the list go to long so no more edits: but here are the new edits and items:

NEW:
from cleo- when the "scroll to here" option is checked all applications should exhibit this behavior — cocoa AND carbon applications.

the hidden apple preferences unlocked by tinkertool should be incorporated into the system preferences.

from sockdoggy- a preference panel for speaker settings.

from pcconvert- multiple desktops option

from mischief- itunes visualizer as desktop background (trippy yo). it would be nice to have a full screen visualizer while still getting your work done. obviously this would only work while iTunes is running.

EDIT:
organization in dock in which apps, docs, windows, folders, and drives are kept separate and the user can choose the order in which these are arranged. a dock customization feature implemented just how the toolbar customization is set up could make this very user friendly. also (cat_fishman) this customization feature should give the user the option to place dividers (such as the one currently separating the applcations from folder/drives/windows/trash. Also flexible spaces should also be an option.


i was also thinking a poll with multiple choices where people could vote on the items they felt they liked the most/felt they would use would be cool. obviously there are too many items for a macrumors poll but if anyone knows how to set up such a poll on my website it would be greatly appreciated.

[cleo]

Lemon, are you going to send this to the Apple folks?

[King Cobra]

Originally posted by mischief
I wanna run my iTunes visualizer as a Desktop picture! (Happy faces)

I would like to see that as well, but I think that to copy a visual image would require an option from iTunes, which is currently not available. As for OS X 10.2 I am most waiting for spring-loaded folders.
_________________________

Just don't go around telling people that you can see the music. - MacAddict

[mischief]

I was just using the visualizer as an example. I think there's no reason to exclude motion files from the options. It'd be cool to have my screen savers as backgrounds too.

[Wry Cooter]

Mischeif, You mean motion video as a screensaver like so?

http://loops.pardeike.net/

I like the washing machine.

The list starting this thread is rather ambitious, but what I would like most is spring loaded folders, perhaps, as is being worked on, and being able to sort by kind in column view.

Although the dynamic search field bit ala iTunes is nice, I don't think we want to see the other files 'disappear' as in an iTunes search (maybe another view style of finder browser in the window toolbar tho....) . In Classic, typing would sort of bring you to the file in the list, I suppose this is lost in list view in X, I haven't noticed. I'm fairly sure it is not in Column view, where I would like it the most.

I'd also like to be able to print the contents of any finder window, including the iDisk-- I'm still not sure what all apple has placed in the software folder of peoples iDisk.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter
The list starting this thread is rather ambitious

i am the ambitiouslemon.

actually i would say most of the items in the list are bug fixes. and therefore i wouldnt say its ambitious to expect no glaring gui bugs. but some of the other items are very ambitious. mostly i see osx as a huge blank slate. it has incredible potencial that is not being realized, and i wanted to get people thinking about new features (not just recyled os9 features).

o and wrycooter, i checked and the filtering style from os9 where we type and are carried to the item matching what we are typing works in icons, list, and column in osx. i used to use this a lot in os9 but dont seem to in osx and was surprised when you mentioned it. made me realize i hadnty been using it, i didnt even know if it was there r not. i had to check. im not even sure why im not using it anymore, pretty odd.

and cleo, i would if i could, but all the people at apple i know work on future hardware design and dont have any connection with the software people, so i really dont have anyone to give the list to. im planning on posting it on my website as soon as i can figure out how to make a poll where people can vote for the features i mention that they would like. but so far no one seems to be able to help with that.

sorry here is the last edit to the list:

NEW:
from wrycooter- ability to print the contents of any window, including an iDisk

EDIT:
from krishba there should be a filter field in the toolbar of a window. so i can go to customize toolbar and choose to have a filter field in my window's toolbar. when one types in the filter field the items displayed in the window are dynamically filtered according to what is being typed (like in iTunes). arn tells us one can do this in the terminal so perhaps it will not be so difficult to implement in aqua.

[kishba]

krishba? krishba???

hehe....

[AmbitiousLemon]

uh. whats with the kishba? stuff? you suggested that in another thread. ill removed your name and be happy to take credit for it if you like.

[kishba]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
uh. whats with the kishba? stuff? you suggested that in another thread. ill removed your name and be happy to take credit for it if you like.

oh you had just put "krishba" and my real name is kishba

sorry for confusing you, althought i was confused at first...hehe

:)

[AmbitiousLemon]

o! ok. ill go fix that. sorry about that.

-peace

[oldMac]

I just want my stickies to "stick" to my second monitor instead of jumping back to the first one every time the stickies application is restarted.

Okay... and seeing that damned rainbow cursor less often would be nice.

[oldMac]

And Apple needs to make filesharing much better!

The PC network filesharing still sucks and it needs to be top-notch for Macs to achieve respect from the IT guys who make a lot of determinations about whether or not someone can use a Mac.

Personally, I want Apple to fix all the stuff that's broken underneath before they go and add more "fuzzy" features. I agree that attention to detail is what mostly separates the Mac OS from windows, but it's hard to appreciate the little things when you still have *big* issues to deal with.

First and foremost, Macs should "just work". Plug it in and go.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon


o and wrycooter, i checked and the filtering style from os9 where we type and are carried to the item matching what we are typing works in icons, list, and column in osx. i used to use this a lot in os9 but dont seem to in osx and was surprised when you mentioned it. made me realize i hadnty been using it, i didnt even know if it was there r not. i had to check. im not even sure why im not using it anymore, pretty odd.



Ugg, forgot what I was going to say... so I'll think of something new.

Do you have "view options in Column view in the finder"on that list?

I want to Sort by Kind in the column view, get the folders all in the same space on the window. Probably better to go to list view and open two windows however.

And if you have it in your list, and I didn't see it, well its because I must not like to scroll, which is why I want that feature in the finder.

[AmbitiousLemon]

o wry cooter, my bad. i must have read what you wrote wrong. i thought you had said typing wont bring the corresponding files up in column view.

sort by kind isnt supported and has been added to the list.

the list is 10781 characters right now, and i can only post 10,000 so im working on making it more succint. ill post it soon.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Bug Fixes:

Window Bugs:

windows should not open behind the dock, just as windows do not open behind the menubar.

all windows should remember their size and icon arrangement. this seems simple. perhaps a "save window position" like in omniweb could be used to save a certain window position and size.

the green button should function properly. currently when the "keep arranged by.." option is chosen the right side of the window crops the window too close forcing the icons along the edge to move to th next row. when the "snap to grid" option is chosen there is too much room at the top of a window. when none of these is checked then things crop properly to the right and bottom but it does not crop the left or top of a window.

when navigating windows with the "always open folders in a new window" preference turned off the new window should open in its saved state, not in the state of the window that was previously open. in other words it should function much like opening a folding while holding down the option key, but retain the history in the back button.

from cleo- when the "scroll to here" option is checked all applications should exhibit this behavior — cocoa AND carbon applications.

windows with a large number of files/apps should open in a reasonable amount of time.

scrolling in windows needs to be accelerated

all windows should by default be set to global (this is what global means). one can then change all of one's windows by adjusting the global options. if one wants things different in a particular window then one uses the "this window only" option.

--pipedreams:

classic windows should be just as aware of the dock and menubar as aqua windows.

Other:

From OldMac - Stickies Notes should be multiple monitor aware. They should not jump back to the main monitor on restart.

New Features:

Dock Features:

there should be an option to include drives, removable media (cds dvds), and servers on the dock. so with this option enabled i could insert a cd and have it appear in the dock much like a launched application would.

preference panel in which one can choose applications that will auto hide the dock.

A dock customization features akin to the toolbar customization feature. Where one can specify how groups of apps, docs, windows, etc are arranged, and (catfishman) where one can insert spaces and flexible spaces. also one could then choose groups that do not appear in the dock (including finder icon).

from mrtrumbe- windows and documents in the dock should have some sort of stamp indicating the application they are operating in. where a small graphical stamp is place over the window or file of choice like in mail and adium.

dynamic dock icons like adium and mail that give application status information, like having the finder icon display when copy file tasks are completed etc. the dock icon would then be separate from desktop icons in that it would be a separte set of dynamic icons that provide information visually (adium uses four icons to create its different dock icon states).

When a folder window is minimized to the dock you should be able to drag files to the minimized window and thereby drop files into that folder.

--pipedreams:

one should be able to save windows in the dock just as one saves links, apps, folders and drives.

option to have dock folders display contextual menu contents with a single click (not click hold or control click).

Window Features:

springloaded folders

a replacement for windowshade function that keeps the window on the desktop.

WryCooter- Ability to sort by kind in column view

Ability to choose a background color/picture in list and column views just like in icon view

from wrycooter- ability to print the contents of any window, including an iDisk

icon sizing should provide a pixel size along with each "tick"

--pipedreams:

from pcconvert- multiple desktops option

a contextual menu option to size each icon independent of others.

from kishba- an option in the customize toolbar preference to add a iTunes style filter field to the toolbar.

an option to "drop" a folder window onto the desktop. this would display the contents of a window on the desktop. picking up a dropped window would take all the items from the window off the desktop and display them in a window again. the file heirarchy would be maintained, only the manner in which the contents of that window is displayed would be changed.

tabbed window browsing in the finder.

Other:

Easy preference panel for networking with macs AND pcs.

an option to display and toggle the of classic state in the menubar as volume, ppoe, monitor resolution, and airport status is displayed.

from sockdoggy- a preference panel for speaker settings.

the hidden apple preferences unlocked by tinkertool should be incorporated into the system preferences.

--pipedreams:

option to remove recent items from apple menu.

from dantec- a cursor shadow.

from mischief- Ability to choose movies/visualizers/screensavers as desktop backgrounds.

[AmbitiousLemon]

I tried to consolidate and sort features/bugs. Also I tried to rank importance in each category and tried to make it clear that some things im asking for i consider to be far our requests (pipedreams).

Let me know what you think.

[Rower_CPU]

Not to demean all of the work you've done in compiling this list, but what it boils down to for me is SPEED.

If we have options to turn down the Aqua level a notch or two and regain some speed from our systems, great. Otherwise, just makes sure the thing runs fast!

Death to the rainbow-colored pinwheel and bouncing Dock icons!!!

[AmbitiousLemon]

i did mention a few items where speed is a big problem, but more general speed issues i take simply as a given. Ive mentioned many times how unacceptably slow osx is, but i felt that apple is well aware of it and has been attacking the issue with both software and hardware so it wasnt worth harping on.

i think ive mentioned my lil speed test a few times but here goes again. i lined up three computers with a fresh install of osx10.1.3. a g4 400, g4 800 imac, and dual g4 1ghz. there was little performance difference between any of them. the difference between the imac and the dually was almost inperceptable (im talking ui responsiveness ONLY). this lets me know its mostly a software issue. ive also done some thinking about a 2d graphics card like the 3d cards we have. ive heard rumors of new chips incorporating memory management into them as well.

mostly i didnt want to beat a dead and decaying horse. i see osx as a clean slate. its nearly devoid of any features. many complain and use third party utilities to bring back os9 functionality to osx. i think this is wrong. yes osx needs new features, but looking to os9 for answers isnt always the best thing to do. osx should evolve os9 features and innovate new features in a osx style. thats what i am going for in this list. trying to say something new and get people thinking about what osx can become not what os9 used to be.

[SubFredZero]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon

yes osx needs new features, but looking to os9 for answers isnt always the best thing to do. osx should evolve os9 features and innovate new features in a osx style.

AmbitiousLemon is 100% right... We need new features : not going back to the spring-loaded folders of os9 but serach a new alternative which fits right into osx.

Speed is also needed in osx. I think parts of Darwin will have to be rewriten to do this. But a alternative for this can also be : making a new preferences panel where you can disable Aqua stuff like shadows on windows, like some programs do. When these shadows are disabled in Quark osx runs a lot faster, resizing and moving windows is no longer slow on my iMac G3.

Also the switch user feature like in windows xp is needed in osx. (The only thing better in windows, so it needs to be fixed)

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon


i think ive mentioned my lil speed test a few times but here goes again. i lined up three computers with a fresh install of osx10.1.3. a g4 400, g4 800 imac, and dual g4 1ghz. there was little performance difference between any of them. the difference between the imac and the dually was almost inperceptable (im talking ui responsiveness ONLY).



But the pretty shiny buttons you can lick stuff DOES take a bite out of the CPU. Any one who has ripped MP3s with iTunes booting from both 9 or X could probably tell you the same.

However, some of that is made up by OS X being smoother for multitasking.. I can get more work done WHILE such a process is going on, whereas booting from 9, I might be apt to let the processor do nothing else but rip, otherwise I might crash.

There are some speed of work issues dealing with the GUI, and file management, although perhaps pining for lost spring loaded folders may not be the answer. I got over looking to the corners of the screen for my apps within a couple of weeks. And Sherlock for example, needs a complete overhaul, it is now pretty much useless to me with the way it works within OS X.

[j763]

My OS 10.2 wishlist:

- SMB/CIFS Browser. Well done Apple in having some SMB support, but they need to build on it. Apple shouldn't be afraid of pissing off thursby (makers of dave), give us an SMB Browser!

- Re-write slow parts of OS X in Assembly if it's possible...

- Fix up Software Update so it downloads updates for your localization, not always for NORTH AMERICAN ENGLISH! I had to reinstall OS X from CD after downloading 10.1.3 from Software Update because I needed the International English version and it gave me the North American Edtn. I've learnt my lesson and now use http://www.apple.com/swupdates

- Add transperancy option in Terminal Windows

- Fix it up so that the date in fact CAN read as dd/mm/yyyy... In my International and Date & Time Settings, it says dd/mm/yyyy, but it displays mm/dd/yyyy...


And a suggestion for AmbitiousLemon -- scaling down the 10.2 list is a good idea but don't be limited by the post limit here. You've got a website -- post the list there!

[Choppaface]

ya a few things

-option-drag a file to create a duplicate somewhere requires the user to press option before they initiate the drag instead of whenever they want. this is so annoying!!!!

-apple-drag to scroll windows using the hand is a *MUST* grrr

-in the file browser, when I click on a folder in the rightmost column, I want that damn thing to scroll over! there's possible nothing worse than horizontal scrolling unless that part in the UI is specifically designed for it....otherwise it's a pain

-installers. stop saying 100 megs are needed for installation

-get rid of the damn command-n new window command-shift-n new folder thing! or at least allow switching of the two! command-n for a new window makes no sense when clicking on the finder icon does it for you. besides, the old new folder command was command-n

-allow mixing of apps, docs, and folders in dock.

-services!

[AmbitiousLemon]

hey these are some great comments. thanks guys. i recently gave my list to a researcher who studies graphical user interfaces. ive added much since then but ill let you know what he says when(if?) he gets back to me. ive been a bit busy lately (hence my rather over the top posts elsewhere, guess rushing around like a mad man 24/7 makes one sound more intense than one intends) but ill find some time to add all of these points and show you the newest incarnation of the list.

and as for scaling it down. i didnt eliminate any points just removed my own commentary on a few points and took similiar points and combined them into more succint points.

as for my website, man i havent updated that thing in way too long. ive been hoping someone could help me figure out how to make a poll with this wish list but no one has stepped up to bat, so ive been kind putting it off until i have time to figure it out on my own... ahhh work full time + double course load as a bio major at berkeley just seems to eat up all my time... who woudl have thought? i find time though so i will get to everything (i didnt sleep at all last night and got so much done, gonna do the same again tonight so maybe i will get to some of this)

[AmbitiousLemon]

ok been working on the list and i had a few questions, dont take it personally sometimes i just dont understand and i want to get it right when i add it to the list:

questions:
choppa what do you mean by "installers. stop saying 100 megs are needed for installation"
choppa by "services" are you referring to how the services seem to be grayed out in most apps?
choppa the option drag thing to duplicate a file, what would be a fix? there is a command-d or file menu duplicate to duplicate as well as copy and paste to duplicate an item in the finder in addition to the option drag thing. is there another alternative?
j763 i dont know what smb is so could you explain your request involving a smb/cifs browser? is this in the same category as better file sharing between macs and pcs? could this be what actually gives us better file sharing between macs and pcs?
wry cooter- as far as sherlock goes im torn. i was trying to stick to just osx, cuz we all know mail and itunes and others could use some serious work. should we mention sherlock since its basically a part of osx or not?

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
ok been working on the list and i had a few questions, dont take it personally sometimes i just dont understand and i want to get it right when i add it to the list:

questions:

wry cooter- as far as sherlock goes im torn. i was trying to stick to just osx, cuz we all know mail and itunes and others could use some serious work. should we mention sherlock since its basically a part of osx or not?



I think a function called FIND would have a pretty close bet of saying, yes, its an important part of OS X. Of course we could do without the finder completely and just run searches from Terminal, wot? Whats a GUI?

As Command F , for find, brings up Sherlock, I think it rather important Sherlock still work as well as it did in OS 9.. I do not consider this a step backwards. However, it is good example of where Classic functionality clashes on a fairly low level with the Unix underpinnings of OS X.

My most common use of Sherlock was to drag and drop a file, on the custom setting (more search options, advanced) so I could find other files of that same type and creator. However, the resource fork, where this info was usually stored, is not necessarily any thing OS X gives a flying flip about, nor is going to ever use. But its useful info.

But hey, since we should have all documents in the documents folder and all apps in the application folder, we shouldn't ever have to find files by type, or creator should we? (sarcasm) Its going to be in the documents folder....along with thousands of other files. What do you mean you can't find that needle in the haystack?

[Choppaface]

choppa what do you mean by "installers. stop saying 100 megs are needed for installation"
every time I install something it always says that 100megs+ of space is needed for installation. I'm sure this has got to just be a bug in the installer (or perhaps 10.1 didn't update my copy of the installer app?), but it would be nice if it got cleaned up


choppa by "services" are you referring to how the services seem to be grayed out in most apps?

yes at least its greyed out in everything I have. It just seems if they put a menu there they should make it functional; its nice to see future goals but I think it's messy to leave loose threads like that


choppa the option drag thing to duplicate a file, what would be a fix? there is a command-d or file menu duplicate to duplicate as well as copy and paste to duplicate an item in the finder in addition to the option drag thing. is there another alternative?

option drag is the quickest. duplication requires a name change, copy paste requires you to have the window of the target location open right? what I like to do is like keep a copy of everything I've downloaded and worked on. I like to option-drag things into my docs folder (in my doc) to make a copy of it there for safe keeping while I work on/delete the one on my desktop. also I have a photoshop action that generates thumb previews in a set of folders that get copied a lot.

my MAIN GRIPE here is that if you start to drag the file and then hold down option, it won't give you the + icon telling you that it will duplicate/copy the file on drop. instead of you don't hold down option in time you have to drop the file, hold down option, then re-drag it. I want it so that I can press option during the drag and it will behave as it *SHOULD*
also I'm not sure if this is included with spring loaded folders that will be in OS 10.2, but the thing where you can drag a file over a folder, and then hit the spacebar to pop it open immediately is *very* helpful, and I really liked it in OS9. this would be another example of hitting a key during drag to create feedback. if this is not in 10.2 thats not going to make me a very happy camper >_<


should we mention sherlock since its basically a part of osx or not?

oh ya and sherlock too. get the hell rid of it and bring back find file :D
i delete sherklock off of anything I have running pre-OSX because I hate the damn internet crap they throw in there (put that in a separate app!) and the indexing thing which does nothing. in my experience, find file has found the file faster than sherlock every time, even after sherlock has done its indexing stuff (its SO annoying when it opens in X and it has to index before you can search for anything) and it launches in a quarter of the time. maybe make the find file app *part* of the dock in some way, or how bout add a search field to the windows? now *that* would be neato. a search field at the top of any window to do ultra quick searching. this is something I do alot since i have a really big website with 1000's of pictures; my hard drive has more than 180,000 items on it (mostly thanks to the devkit and other goodies though....)

[AmbitiousLemon]

i will be adding the list to my website soon. as soon as yahoo!'s ftp gets working again that is.

i thought i would share with you guys some suggestions Big had regarding sherlock:

Sherlock:

From Big (mike)- CD categorizing. If it can index harddrives, it should be able to index cd's. the system will entail just a drag and drop method, when a user calls up Sherlock, there will ba a cd Icon with a folder arrow, and a catagory of the different types of cd's could be created (ie, music cd's, archived projects, active jobs, work backup etc...) then I can search the whole kit & kaboodle or each type of cd, or each cd.

From Big (mike)- Speed up Sherlock. Sherlock is too slow over all networks

From Big (mike)- command+s+f (small find) then a little box appears, a user would not even have to look at it, just type. This function could be integrated with the search field an optional search field in the customize toolbar options. If a user chooses to have a search field in their toolbar then command+s+f will bring their cursor into that field. If the search field is not in the toolbar then a small separate window appears.

From Big (mike)- Give us file types, or at least (when searching for files of specific applications) I should not have to know every application's extension. I should have an option find files of specific applications "just like" then have a drop down menu (or better yet, a browse feature that will let me find a file that is just like the one I am searching for)

[MacUser-in-HI]

http://space.sourceforge.net/

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by MacUser-in-HI
http://space.sourceforge.net/

Welcome to the boards! Whereabouts in HI are you? I'm a former Hilo boy...

I think the point that most of the people here are bringing up is that there are a lot of things that are *possible* on OS X, but Apple has not built them in yet.

TinkerTool and all the rest are great, but we want that same functionality built into the System Prefs...

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon



i thought i would share with you guys some suggestions Big had regarding sherlock:

Sherlock:

From Big (mike)- CD categorizing. If it can index harddrives, it should be able to index cd's. the system will entail just a drag and drop method, when a user calls up Sherlock, there will ba a cd Icon with a folder arrow, and a catagory of the different types of cd's could be created (ie, music cd's, archived projects, active jobs, work backup etc...) then I can search the whole kit & kaboodle or each type of cd, or each cd.

<snip>

From Big (mike)- Give us file types, or at least (when searching for files of specific applications) I should not have to know every application's extension. I should have an option find files of specific applications "just like" then have a drop down menu (or better yet, a browse feature that will let me find a file that is just like the one I am searching for)

Indexing can't be done on read only volumes such as CDs and Disk Images because apparently the index is stored on that disk- you can't store such on a read only disk. I imagine they could be stored on the boot up disk only.

Also keep in mind that the indexing is a TEXT index, a word index-- it doesn't need to index to find file names, only the contents inside TEXT files... this isn't going to do diddly for your Audio CDs even if they could be indexed. And you might not want the index of an Encyclopedia CD you insert... Or necessarily want an index of every single disk you insert. (I sometimes insert hundreds per day...)

(your Audio CDs ARE being indexed by file name in a way, if you use iTunes, it will look up what it can find on CDDB, and I think it keeps that info in a library available for use by Apple CD Player app as well. Your CD drive sees the medias serial number, and references that to the name info it keeps on file)

Booting from Classic, in Sherlock, you can drag and drop a file on the custom search window to determine a files creator and type-- this is probably disabled to some degree in OS X because of the Unix underpinnings of OS X means that not all of your files necessarily have a resource fork any more, where this info is stored. So Sherlock in OS X ignores this past functionality perhaps to avoid problems. This is by far the most missed function for me.

Indexing Preferences in OS 9 Sherlock could limit indexing to a once per day or even more infrequent schedule, in OS X its now or never... index when you open sherlock, or not. This is fine for keeping an incremental index up to date, but it slows down the find function when you are only doing a file name search, by far the most frequent use of sherlock. I don't know why it seems to be unable to index the boot disk, only my additional drives are indexed.

Sherlock still needs an overhaul to return past usefulness (even back to a simple Find File (or Custom Find File to search for Type, date, etc...). As far as the web capabilities, Watson is doing a better job with that.

[boobers]

I want my HD's to stay in the same place!!

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by boobers
I want my HD's to stay in the same place!!

Could you elaborate...?

[mischief]

Icons (HDs included) have the annoying habit of jumping around on the right half of the desktop after exiting programs like Quake 3 or Diablo 2 that change the screen settings.

[boobers]

icons jump all over the place after screen size changes...its rather annoying

[Rower_CPU]

OK. Gotcha.

I guess it depends on your dock location/settings, etc. This is a problem with almost any OS I've used (Windows and Mac)...not sure how feasible it would be for them to change this...hmmmmmm

[boobers]

can handle it for the most part. This is why i say this.
Cheers

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by boobers
icons jump all over the place after screen size changes...its rather annoying

Have you checked out the finder preferences view menu? View Options is command J.. You can have the finder sort the mess on your desktop as...

Name
Date Modifed
Date Created
Size
Kind

Or none of these (which may be what you are wishing). You can also have "always snapped to grid" chosen, or not, to keep icons in place.

Also very handy, if games are forcing a resolution change on you, and rearranging the desktop due to their previous size is the ICON SIZE slider. You can have them as small as you might see them in ANY finder view at ANY Screen resolution To something rather chunky that might only allow 16 icons positions on the desktop (some people have had fun with this tweaking the OS where the desktop could only contain ONE icon).

One might say there is even MORE functionality with desktop icon placement in os X than 9, If one takes the time to look. Tabbed pop up folders- well thats another issue. Snappier finder overall, well, thats an quartz overhead issue.

However, I might agree that the issue of changing screen resolution is less than elegant... Often the monitor wants to place the new resolution off center, or not have it expand to the size of the monitor. Not an issue with OS 9 monitor drivers.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Icons not remembering their position seems to be in all windows. The Finder window (the one with your drives) is always rearranging the icons. Seems to be a similiar problem to the whole windows not remembering their size and placement thing. There are also numerous bugs associated with using the sort by options in the view options (check the list for details).

its really annoying hvaing to rearrange all of your windows and icons everytime we restart, but i suppose its OSX we should never have to restart right?

[AmbitiousLemon]

well i updated my websiyte and included in the update is the latest bug/feature list.

the new list can be found here (http://www.ambitiouslemon.com/opinion/software/osxbugsfeatures.htm)

[Choppaface]

oh and another thing. right after a file is duplicated, or if other things are being dropped in its directory, and you try to change its file name, it exits the changing feature and relists the directory. this is *so annoying* when you have to do it multiple times. it would be nice if the OS cached user imput and entered it in when convenient instead of rejecting it in order to relist the directory

[j763]

SMB:

OK, Let me explain... SMB is the protocol that Windows uses for file sharing. In Mac OS X, there is support for AFP (AppleTalk and other Apple Sharing protocols), SMB (Windows) and NFS (UNIX). The problem with their current SMB support is that to connect to a Windows share, you have to go into the Connect To Server dialogue and type in:

"smb://USERNAME/sharepoint"

You cannot browse through a list of sharepoints. This is very annoying! It would be easy for Apple to add a SMB Browser to OS X, Thursby (makers of DAVE) have done it, why can't Apple?

I hope that explains what SMB is about... If you want to know anything else, let me know...

Services Menu

The services menu does work... well, sort of... If you're using a Cocoa App, then the services menu will work fine. If you're in a Carbon app, Office, IE etc. it won't.

[Choppaface]

O_o

bah i got all carbon apps? doh!
well i've never seen it work....i wish they would bring back command-shift-3 though :D

[AmbitiousLemon]

command shift 3 and cmmand shift 4 both work in osx.

i dont think it is too mucht o ask that services work in both carbon and cocoa apps. if apple wants to sell carbon to developers they need to give carbon full support.

thanks for the info on smb support, ill incorporate that into the item discussing easier windows networking.

[Choppaface]

*hits head with mallet*

[matty]

I bought OS X when it first came out in the UK but missed the chance to upgrade to 10.1 because for some bizarre reason Apple made it a time-limited offer?!#*! So far as I can tell -- unless anyone out there knows different -- the only way to get 10.1 now is to buy a whole new copy of OS X at full price (or buy a new Mac!). I really don't understand Apple's policy on this.

[AmbitiousLemon]

I have updated the list incorporating all the latest comments.

Also i caught a bunch of typos and awkward sentences that were in the original list and fixed that stuff.

let me know what you think.

as the list is now far too large to post here please take a look at it on my website (http://www.ambitiouslemon.com/opinion/software/osxbugsfeatures.htm)

as usual let me know if i misinterpreted any of your suggestions, i typically try to expand on the ideas or reword them in more formal and understandable manner, but often just screw things up so let me know if this has happened.

lets keep the ideas flowing :)

[King Cobra]

Nice detail!

Unless I missed these things while browsing, I would like to see these improvements to 10.2.

(1) There should be a program, application, or pop-up that tells you how much memory is unused on your computer. (On OS 9 this was under About This Mac.)

(2) When downloading a large file to the desktop the file archive should appear immediately, instead of having to click on the desktop, then wait a few seconds for it to appear. Also, any moved or changed files should not be shown when you open the menu and have to wait a few seconds, just as you would wait for an icon to appear when downloading.

(3) OS 10.2 must have more support for Epson Printers, Deskjet Printers, Camcorders, etc. instead of having to either use OS 9 or downloading a separate support archive.
_________________

I have a hat with my name on it.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Cobra: your comments added.

[Unicity]

Like so**< See Footer > How do I run 'Motion' on the Desktop? Take a look at < http://pro.corbis.com >just above the center of the page, the 'scrolling album effect. I'd really rather run some full motion, even 'looping' full motion. Any Ideas?






**[QUOTE=Wry Cooter]Mischeif, You mean motion video as a screensaver like so?

http://loops.pardeike.net/

[Wry Cooter]

Like so**< See Footer > How do I run 'Motion' on the Desktop? Take a look at < http://pro.corbis.com >just above the center of the page, the 'scrolling album effect. I'd really rather run some full motion, even 'looping' full motion. Any Ideas?






**[QUOTE=Wry Cooter]Mischeif, You mean motion video as a screensaver like so?

http://loops.pardeike.net/

I think if you wanted it badly enough, you could figure out something... maybe such effects might be added to future versions of iPhoto or iMovie. Or present versions. This thread has cobwebs on it. Panther has been out a few months now.

The Shareware programs Desktop Effects 0.1 and SS Creator 1.01 are variants on the iPhoto 2 "Export as Screensaver" function, for slideshows as screensavers, and I think you could probably find other more complex takes on such if you looked (seems like I have seen a rotating cube screensaver, maybe in Panther, if not in shareware).

One reason you do not see much full motion video or even slide image screensavers with many images is... most people don't want their hard disk being hit for a new file just for the purpose of a screensaver while they are away from the computer- could wear down hard disks needlessly, or drain a battery in a laptop quicker. So screensavers are small programs that do not take up much RAM. Making too much of a presentation for purposes of a screensaver is a bit of overkill... you could always run full screen quicktime or iMovie, or build a demo program in something like Director if you wanted something flashy... most people settle for MUCH LESS for the needs and purposes of a mere screensaver. But reasonably sized looping full motion screensavers can be done as the loops/paradeike.net site shows... it is merely that if you want more out of a screensaver than this... well maybe you should be watching a DVD or playing a game.... But the rotating album would be a nice touch.