Will you upgrade or do a fresh install of Leopard? [Archive]

bankshot

Mar 28, 2007, 02:15 PM

Not exactly reformat, but I'll install it on a separate drive/partition and keep Tiger around (and bootable) until I'm satisfied with Leopard as my only OS. That's what I did with every previous upgrade -- Puma -> Jaguar, Jaguar -> Panther, and Panther -> Tiger. In the last case, it was particularly useful because Tiger had a USB bug where it would kernel panic every few days on my machine, so I stuck with Panther for a few months after buying Tiger. It turned out to be a USB mini-hub that I later ditched, though I still contend that the software should have handled it more gracefully instead of crashing. I only recently blew away my Panther install to reclaim some space on that disk.

For most people, I strongly recommend the Archive & Install option. It's the best of both worlds -- little to no incompatibility problems, your old system is still there in case you need to copy something over, and you still get a clean system. I'd do this too, but I'm such a control freak that I prefer to do a clean install on a new disk/partition and manually copy over whatever I'm missing until I'm satisfied. :rolleyes: :D

I'm sure Apple's done a nice job with it, but I still advise everyone to stay far away from the Upgrade option. There's simply no way for them to anticipate every little piece of third-party software you may have installed which made subtle changes to your existing system. Those changes, when carried forward into the new OS, could spell unexpected trouble. At the very best, you'll have a lot of extra unused crap laying around your new system taking up disk space. At the worst, that crap will interfere with the new system and cause problems. I don't think the Upgrade is worth that risk at all.

cwedl

Mar 28, 2007, 02:18 PM

As always I will be doing a clean install. I always do so I can get the max performance of the os.

Diatribe

Mar 28, 2007, 02:25 PM

Reformat. Just to be sure there won't be any problems.

shecky

Mar 28, 2007, 02:27 PM

what i will do is wait 3 weeks after it is in people's hands, to make sure everything is OK and get a 10.5.1 update, THEN reformat.

miniConvert

Mar 28, 2007, 02:28 PM

I'll upgrade, but I have no idea what that'll involve for OS X Server :S

xsedrinam

Mar 28, 2007, 02:35 PM

Reformat, but will probably go on full, bug alert for the first release, and wait 'til the second update to buy.

thugpoet22

Mar 28, 2007, 02:35 PM

I will reformat. The only issue will be backing up my entire itunes library, i think that will be about 4 dvds lol.

IJ Reilly

Mar 28, 2007, 02:38 PM

Never done a clean install, never needed one. They're way too disruptive. That's why I use a Mac.

Xavier

Mar 28, 2007, 02:44 PM

If it comes out on time, I won't have to worry about reformating or upgrading. I'll have my new MPB in my hands!

But it it's not, then I will do a reformat. Like others have said, there is nothing like a clean install of Mac OS X. :)

apfhex

Mar 28, 2007, 02:49 PM

Definitely not reformatting, but I'm not sure if I want to Upgrade & Install or Archive & Install.

Blue Velvet

Mar 28, 2007, 02:54 PM

Clean installs at work with new installs of CS3 and Quark 7 on four, maybe five Macs. Archive and install installs on the other 4 that don't run productivity apps.

At home, not sure. The clean install of Tiger from Panther was a pain, especially with Mail and reactivating/updating apps. I'll wait to read the whimpers and howls from bleeding-edge adopters here first.

epochblue

Mar 28, 2007, 02:54 PM

What can I say? I'm a clean install kinda guy....plus I have a backup of everything that's important to me, so, no harm no foul.

clevin

Mar 28, 2007, 02:55 PM

i have absolutely no experience, But I DO hope that in this kind of process, upgrade of the OS would be easy and safe. There will be too much data need to be moving around if i were to re-format it.

I did reformat on my windows laptop several years ago when I installed XP, but thats when I had 3 partitions, I can safely format C drive without worrying about data loss, my MB only has a single partition, so reformat is really not reasonable for me.

mags631

Mar 28, 2007, 02:58 PM

I always reformat -- it gives me the excuse to go through all my accumulated documents and trash unwanted stuff.

Of course, you have to be good about archiving your stuff before erasing the disk!

The difference from Windows and Mac, in my opinion, is that I tend to reformat and reinstall my Windows machine every 3-6 months to recover from some problem. Excessive, but I hate trying to diagnose what's wrong with the registry, etc.

Can't wait until Leopard arrives!

nateDEEZY

Mar 28, 2007, 03:03 PM

Nothing beats a fresh reformat! Like others have mentioned it'll cause me to go through and trash unwanted documents and programs.

And PLUS it makes it feel like you just got a brand new computer xD

lamina

Mar 28, 2007, 03:22 PM

I personally can't wait for Leopard. It'll be a great excuse to wipe my hard drive. Lately Tiger has been a little wonky for me, missing animations and stuff.

killmoms

Mar 28, 2007, 03:38 PM

I know IJ Reilly will be in here momentarily to yell at everyone formatting, but, I'm gonna. It's just an illogical holdover from my Windows days. But it's so easy for me to back my stuff up, why not? :D

EDIT: Ah, should've guessed he'd already be here.

mattscott306

Mar 28, 2007, 03:47 PM

I was just gonna upgrade, but I might follow bankshot's advice.

ShiggyMiyamoto

Mar 28, 2007, 04:03 PM

Well for me it depends on whether I have my MacBook Pro by the time it releases, which is doubtful.

I have a question though: will Leopard run on a midrange G3? I have a 600 MHz G3 iBook with 640 MB of RAM. I know I couldn't use all the Intel optimized stuff, but since it's universal would I be able to run at least the PPC components? Every OS update has sped me up a bit starting with 10.2.

Nitromaster

Mar 28, 2007, 04:04 PM

ill be getting my macbook as soon as possible after the hardware revision. Ill do a clean install though, anyone know if its possible to slipstream updates onto a new install disc?

topgunn

Mar 28, 2007, 04:05 PM

Clean install. Since I clone my hard drive every night, I will simply use the migration assistant to put everything back in place on my new install.

slu

Mar 28, 2007, 04:05 PM

Never done a clean install, never needed one. They're way too disruptive. That's why I use a Mac.

Could not have said it any better myself. I have been a Mac user for only 3 years now and only had to upgrade to Tiger, but I have never reformatted either of my Macs. Upgrade for me all the way!

vohdoun

Mar 28, 2007, 04:18 PM

I'd have to say Not sure. Reason being I don't know how urgently I'm going to be buying it. But if I was to get Leopard (eventually), it would be a clean install. In a way it's like Windows when going the upgrade route. It's nothing but trouble or at some point down the line it'll catch you out. I don't care how or what some expert or marketing guy says about upgrades. One OS to another OS upgrade is evil!
As when it comes to any OS I've always done clean installs, it feels much better and you know it was done right. Or at least I do from personal experiences.

dartzorichalcos

Mar 28, 2007, 04:25 PM

I will back-up my work and reformat. I will always do it this way when upgrading.

IJ Reilly

Mar 28, 2007, 04:39 PM

Nothing beats a fresh reformat!

It's like pounding your head on the wall. It feels so good when you stop.

Could not have said it any better myself. I have been a Mac user for only 3 years now and only had to upgrade to Tiger, but I have never reformatted either of my Macs. Upgrade for me all the way!

The Mac I use every day started out with 9.x, and has been upgraded to every version of the MacOS since then. I guess that would be seven years now, without a single fresh install. This a major Mac advantage that some people seem anxious to give up. I honestly don't get it.

maccam

Mar 28, 2007, 05:15 PM

I will do an erase and install because my hard drive is chuck full and I haven't done a re-install for one year, and it's geting kinda sluggesh.

Zwhaler

Mar 28, 2007, 05:30 PM

How exactly do you do a clean install? I'm on my first Mac, I just want to know how to do it in case I ever need to. Do I need to erase my hard drive? If I do, how do I make sure everything gets backed up properly? Last time I backed up my music, I had to re-rate every one of my 1200 songs. That was a ****ing annoying ***** to say the least, and I don't want to ever have to do that again...

Scottyk9

Mar 28, 2007, 05:43 PM

Reading through this thread, I wonder if a more informative approach would be to ask 2 questions:

1. Do you think it is necessary to perform a fresh install
2. Will you be performing a fresh install

I get the impression that the responses thus far are more revealing about the personalities and preferences of the individual posters than than shedding insight on the advantages / disadvantages

sochet

Mar 28, 2007, 05:45 PM

Well first off I'm gonna wait for a bit for the bugs/compatibility to be sorted out.

Problem is I have a lot of software (I'm a recording engineer by profession) and music files that I wanna keep and I'm not sure if I have all the install files for of the programs still. If I archive and then install leopard will it keep the tiger system files? Are there any problems associated with this?

Also this may be off topic but I heard that there is a key command on startup that will let you install over the system files but keep your applications and general data. Myth or fact?

Thanks.

Shadow

Mar 28, 2007, 05:46 PM

Plain ol' upgrade. I bought a Mac to work, not to format (*looks at PC with caution*)!

Eraserhead

Mar 28, 2007, 05:49 PM

I might reformat, my Macbook's playing up a little, and I wouldn't mind clearing it out. Though I'll probably just do an archive and install.

iBookG4user

Mar 28, 2007, 05:53 PM

I've done both upgrade and clean installs in the past and upgrades have been fine, but now that I have the external hard drive, I'll just reformat. All my files, save for my applications folder, are on my external hard drive anyway.

Socalrunner951

Mar 28, 2007, 08:32 PM

Reformat

Fourbin

Mar 28, 2007, 08:55 PM

Just to clarify the actual term used in OS X is "Erase and Install" not reformat. I will be doing an "Erase and Install" on my G4 PowerBook as I have like 2 gigs of space left and I could afford to start fresh.

theman5725

Mar 28, 2007, 09:06 PM

I didn't know this many people reformatted. This is my first Mac, and I would rather upgrade then reformat.

zim

Mar 28, 2007, 09:30 PM

I have always done clean installs, seemed like the fun thing to do but times have changed and installers have gotten much smarter so as of right now I am leaning towards the if it isn't broken then why fix it. Just think of all the additional free time that I will have :)

Colesyph

Mar 28, 2007, 09:45 PM

I'm personally going to reformat. I'm new to the mac (This macbook is my first) and it would be nice to have a second start with it now that I know what to look for in open source software etc.
Not to mention, what's better than having a computer that acts like new with a new OS?::)

iBunny

Mar 28, 2007, 09:50 PM

Format C:

...wait.....:D

Never Ever Upgrade

cubbie5150

Mar 28, 2007, 10:32 PM

Clean install. Since I clone my hard drive every night, I will simply use the migration assistant to put everything back in place on my new install.

That's the route I'll probably go too. I am new to Mac (have had my MBP since 3/6/07), so I've never done an install of OS X before. I use SuperDuper at least once a week to make a bootable backup on an external firwwire drive. I'll just need to read up on how Migration Assistant actually works (I'm most worried about my iTunes stuff)...

failsafe1

Mar 28, 2007, 10:37 PM

Clean format all the way. Nothing like that new format smell.

twoodcc

Mar 28, 2007, 11:25 PM

i'm not sure what i'll do....i might just install on another disk to keep Tiger around....as some have already mentioned...

dnordstrom

Mar 28, 2007, 11:34 PM

I just decided. As someone said, there's nothing like a clean install of Mac OS. :apple:

Koodauw

Mar 28, 2007, 11:35 PM

I'll most likely make a copy of my current HD onto a bootable external, then reformat.

iPhil

Mar 28, 2007, 11:37 PM

I'm gonna install X.5 (Leopard) on it's own drive for little while so i can switch between 2 or more operating systems :eek:

iJawn108

Mar 29, 2007, 03:05 AM

Well if the new file system is ZFS I will definitely doing a reformat.

wrldwzrd89

Mar 29, 2007, 12:59 PM

Definitely reformatting - always have done with major OS updates. Plus, I'd love to take advantage of ZFS support, if it's available.

aspro

Mar 29, 2007, 11:08 PM

I'll be reformatting, I don't install that many programs for the hassle to outweigh the greater "new" feeling from having a fresh install.

thewhitehart

Mar 30, 2007, 02:44 AM

I'm going to side with the minority and upgrade. When 10.4.8 destroyed my airport, I did an archive and install to 10.4.3, then the combo update to 10.4.7. It took bloody ages. I can't imagine how long a clean install would take when coupled with adding all of my applications and files back to the mac.

Doesn't an upgrade and a clean install both put a new system folder in anyway? What's the difference, besides getting rid of the userspace and library with a clean install?

mustard

Mar 30, 2007, 03:00 AM

Defiantly going with a fresh install and a boot-able backup just in case

Bern

Mar 30, 2007, 03:09 AM

Even though I'll actually be getting a new Mac with Leopard as a matter of course I'll still reformat it and reinstall. That way I clear out any unwanted software entirely, remove languages and unwanted drivers (printers etc). I also remove all the other languages from iLife, iWork , etc.

andrewag

Mar 30, 2007, 03:44 AM

I'm hanging out to format my MacBook, but I may as well wait for Leopard. C'mon Apple!!!!

The Stig

Mar 30, 2007, 03:56 AM

Reformat. I just got my first MB when C2D came out, so I want to start clean and get rid of all the junk I fill it with. By the time 10.5 comes out, it will be time for a reformat and a fresh clean install. Plus I want to see how 10.5 run at peak performance, I don't want all my crap bringing it down.

The Stig

mokeyjoe

Mar 30, 2007, 04:19 AM

When I eventually move my iBook to Leopard I'll probably do an upgrade.

I keep my hard disk fairly tidy, regularly deleting things. Perhaps because I currently only have a 40gb drive with about 6gb left (upgrading to 80gg this month though).

I can't really see I'd get any tangible advantage from reformatting - just a load of hassle trying to get everything back the way it was before. Is there any real benefit to stating over compared to upgrading? I mean I can see why there is in Windows - a fresh Windows install runs so much better - but my iBook runs just as well now as it did last year when I bought it. I can't see that it's necessary in OS X unless you leave stuff all over the place and need a 'spring clean' now and again.

matthew24

Mar 30, 2007, 05:46 AM

I am curious about ZFS, this may need a clean install. I prefer Archive and install, because I believe this to be a combination of:

1) A fresh install of the OS.
2) A migration for existing apps and data.

A clean install after this will still be possible.

When I eventually move my iBook to Leopard I'll probably do an upgrade.

I keep my hard disk fairly tidy, regularly deleting things. Perhaps because I currently only have a 40gb drive with about 6gb left (upgrading to 80gg this month though).

I can't really see I'd get any tangible advantage from reformatting - just a load of hassle trying to get everything back the way it was before. Is there any real benefit to stating over compared to upgrading? I mean I can see why there is in Windows - a fresh Windows install runs so much better - but my iBook runs just as well now as it did last year when I bought it. I can't see that it's necessary in OS X unless you leave stuff all over the place and need a 'spring clean' now and again.

I think for an upgrade you do not have sufficient free space! [edit] > : I am sorry, forgot about the new HD.

mad jew

Mar 30, 2007, 05:55 AM

I'll do a clean install for a variety of reasons.

Firstly, I like to see how Apple is setting OSX up by default. I like to see what settings they choose and what a new Mac buyer will see when they buy a Leopard Mac.
Secondly, I find that having to reconfigure my settings (and there aren't terribly many of them) gives me an excuse and a means to find out more about my new operating system. It gives me the excuse to go through the preferences and see what exactly is new and different in Leopard.

I only do this for each new release of the operating system though.

jeremy.king

Mar 30, 2007, 09:40 AM

I'll wait and see what success/problems others have. Most likely, I will just perform an upgrade.

sunfast

Mar 30, 2007, 10:37 AM

I've chosen my upgrade to Leopard to be a sensible time to put a new bigger HDD in my MacBook. I'll install Leopard on that and start afresh (and will of course have my old HDD with Tiger on it as a backup)

cbrain

Mar 30, 2007, 10:41 AM

I'm gonna dual boot Tiger and Leopard, until all my software works in Leopard.

netdog

Mar 30, 2007, 10:43 AM

I have Backup, but I would really like something that will just clone my whole drive to an external. SuperDuper? Something else?

wrldwzrd89

Mar 30, 2007, 10:55 AM

I have Backup, but I would really like something that will just clone my whole drive to an external. SuperDuper? Something else?
SuperDuper is excellent for this purpose. I use it myself - haven't had a problem with it, and it's saved my data more than once :o

crees!

Mar 30, 2007, 12:27 PM

wrldwzrd89

Mar 30, 2007, 12:33 PM

How much choice does Migration Assistant give you when copying things over? I haven't used it before. My plan is to back up Tiger to an external then reformatting my machine. From there after Leopard is installed I'd like to copy over passwords, bookmarks, email, music, documents, etc... pretty much everything except for applications. How is keychain information handled? For instance, you have a different password for your login. I assume M.A. is smart enough to use your new one. If you don't migrate applications but you do email/safari bookmarks, does the entire Library get copied over or just what's needed? etc...

EDIT: To backup my computer I just insert and boot from the Tiger Install DVD and run Disk Utility.
Heh, I don't bother with Migration Assistant because I clone my disk with SuperDuper to back it up, and I know what needs to go where if I do a manual restore after a major OS update :D

For example, if you want your Mail archives to remain intact, copy over the ~/Library/Mail folder from the backup (where ~ is your user folder). If you want to be even more precise, use Mail's import feature and only import the mailboxes you actually want to keep from the backup.

bankshot

Mar 30, 2007, 04:21 PM

Doesn't an upgrade and a clean install both put a new system folder in anyway? What's the difference, besides getting rid of the userspace and library with a clean install?

Not unless Apple has changed the process for Leopard. Here's a summary of the three options (too bad this poll didn't include all of them!):

1. Erase & Install (ie, clean install, reformat): everything on your hard drive is deleted, you get a completely new system, fresh as if nobody had ever used it. No third-party applications, no personal data. Brand new.

2. Archive & Install: your old system folder is moved out of the way, to "Previous Systems" and a brand new system folder is installed. New versions of Apple's applications are installed in /Applications, but all third party apps are left untouched. Your personal data is also left untouched. This is the option I recommend for most people.

3. Upgrade: nothing is moved or deleted. The new system is simply copied on top of the old system, leaving any extra junk it doesn't know about, fully intact. What you end up with is a mishmash of new stuff plus a bunch of old stuff that could have been deleted. If you're lucky like IJ Reilly, none of the old stuff interferes and only the new stuff is active. If you're unlucky like the many people who will cry and complain after they install the upgrade, things might be unstable because something old will conflict with the new system in a way that the installer didn't anticipate.

Honestly, I'm surprised to see so many people say they will reformat. I still think Archive & Install is about the best install method around for the vast majority of cases.

bankshot

Mar 30, 2007, 04:28 PM

Well if the new file system is ZFS I will definitely doing a reformat.

Even if ZFS is available as an option to install your system onto, I'd avoid it. Through 5 revisions of OS X, the operating system still has trouble being installed on anything other than plain old, case-insensitive HFS+. It's practically unusable on UFS because so many Carbon apps assume HFS+ features that aren't there (and Apple still hasn't generalized the filesystem layer so that UFS properly emulates those features in a way that the affected apps never know it). Even case-sensitive HFS+ has problems because many apps assume a case-insensitive filesystem and have problems when writing two different cases of the same filename (Readme, readme, README, etc) and expecting the other versions to be overwritten.

If ZFS is there in the release, I'll definitely still install the OS on HFS+, and then I'll keep an eye out for reports on ZFS. If it does well, I'll gradually convert data partitions and drives to use it.

Antares

Mar 30, 2007, 04:44 PM

I've always done the upgrade, never a clean install. And I've yet to have a single problem because of it. People might have a preference to erase and install fresh but there's no real need to do it for a home user.

Archive and install seems simple enough and I might do that for Leopard. But never an erase (reformat as some people say) and install.

IJ Reilly

Mar 30, 2007, 06:10 PM

If you're lucky like IJ Reilly, none of the old stuff interferes and only the new stuff is active. If you're unlucky like the many people who will cry and complain after they install the upgrade, things might be unstable because something old will conflict with the new system in a way that the installer didn't anticipate.

I don't consider myself so lucky. I've done numerous upgrades on more than one Mac. The only "stuff" that conflicted was (ironically) a version of Virex that Apple bundled with .Mac. I believe it was the 10.3 to 10.4 upgrade which conflicted with Virex, causing a phantom process to hog the CPU. It was a well-documented issue that required a simple uninstall. This kind of thing is the exception rather than the rule, as the vast majority of applications don't install kernel extensions and thus can't conflict with the operating system. They may not work, but they don't conflict either. Besides, if you just go ahead and reinstall them, you're right back where you started.

All that being said, archive and install isn't a bad route to go for the paranoid. At least it isn't nearly as disruptive as the erase and install route.

redeye be

Mar 30, 2007, 06:51 PM

...I'm not sure if I have all the install files for of the programs still.
Now why would you throw away installation disks of software you bought?

Also this may be off topic but I heard that there is a key command on startup that will let you install over the system files but keep your applications and general data. Myth or fact?
Myth.
Fact is; that is exactly what "update" does.

edit: read bankshot's post (#70 in the thread), it'll clarify everything

Mgkwho

Mar 30, 2007, 08:58 PM

I'm on my first Mac...so I'm guessing reformatting means I'll lose all of my files and installations...meaning I'd rather just upgrade.

What's the difference between reformatting and a fresh install?

-=|Mgkwho

mad jew

Mar 30, 2007, 09:00 PM

You reformat the drive as a means to erase it and then perform a clean install. It's called a clean install because there's nothing else on the drive. Effectively, they're the same thing. :)

As for you, yeah, an upgrade should suffice. :cool:

osirisX

Mar 31, 2007, 04:49 AM

I've got everything backed up so if I do a clean install I will have all my stuff. Not sure if I'll do a clean install or an upgrade though yet.

Mitthrawnuruodo

Mar 31, 2007, 05:22 AM

I'm not sure...

I've changed the HD twice on my MacBook:
- HD failure (replaced under warranty) -> Clean install of the system and Migrated all my stuff in from cloned backup
- HD upgrade (120 -> 200 GB) -> Just cloned back from backup

So I might just try a simple Upgrade - I've never tried that before, always gone for Archive and install (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120) because that has been the most convenient... (But wasn't there some advice somewhere against using A&I for major upgrades...? I vaguely seem to remember reading something like that a while back...)