Leopard - Clean Install or Upgrade? [Archive]

mcguin2000

Sep 27, 2007, 09:44 AM

So the big cat is coming soon.... Are you planning on upgrading or doing a clean install? Which is best?

If I do a clean install what's the best way to back up iTunes, iPhoto, iCal, Mail so I can transfer the settings, events, playcounts, appointments, etc?

Am happy to upgrade but think a clean install may be a good opportunity to clean the slate and get rid of some of the crap. Or is all the extra back-up, archeiving not worth the effort?

What do you think?

:apple:

eluk

Sep 27, 2007, 10:14 AM

Try a search.

phungy

Sep 27, 2007, 10:18 AM

Use SuperDuper! to do a complete backup.

What I'm going to do is partition the HD and try out Leopard first. Then whichever fits best for me is going to be kept.

IJ Reilly

Sep 27, 2007, 12:16 PM

Try a search.

Right. This topic comes up about once a week.

The Stig

Sep 27, 2007, 12:28 PM

Use SuperDuper! to do a complete backup.

What I'm going to do is partition the HD and try out Leopard first. Then whichever fits best for me is going to be kept.

You are going to pay for 10.5 and then "try out Leopard". What if you don't like it? What do you think you might not like about it?

TS

phungy

Sep 27, 2007, 12:32 PM

You are going to pay for 10.5 and then "try out Leopard". What if you don't like it? What do you think you might not like about it?

TS

I never said I was going to pay to try it out ;). I'll pay if I do like it though.

I may end up getting a Family Pack with some friends.

webgoat

Sep 27, 2007, 12:48 PM

I plan on upgrading my hard drive and installing leopard clean the day it comes out

pixlnet

Sep 27, 2007, 04:54 PM

Going the clean install....I want fresh bits in there. I'll bring over my files from an external HD and go from there. We've got about a month or so more of waiting!

Cybergypsy

Sep 27, 2007, 05:00 PM

upgrade here, have to much crap....

BlakTornado

Sep 27, 2007, 05:05 PM

Probably keep the stuff I have. Only had my iMac for about a month :P

Wayfarer

Sep 27, 2007, 07:13 PM

I've already "upgraded" from Panther to Tiger, so I think I'll do a fresh install of Leopard...

kellah

Sep 27, 2007, 08:42 PM

I just got my MBP in June, but I will be doing a clean install. I'll just backup all of my stuff on my external hard drive.

queshy

Sep 27, 2007, 11:01 PM

no time to do a clean install...I'll just do an upgrade.

IJ Reilly

Sep 27, 2007, 11:20 PM

Clean install. It makes you feel fresh all over, like jumping into a tub of acid.

LizKat

Sep 27, 2007, 11:46 PM

I'll do a clean install on one 12" G4 powerbook, see how it goes. I'm trying to sorta tone it down on that machine now, clean any significant data off it, just use it to surf or play entertainment on, or to get some podcasts that i don't mean to back up or retain. I'm not having to back it up any more, don't care about the playcounts and etc on its iTunes data. I don't sync any iPods from that machine and the stuff was loaded from a backup anyway.

Sbrocket

Sep 28, 2007, 01:20 AM

I'd like to do a completely clean install ("Erase and Install") and then move everything over from my SuperDuper clone, but it'd be too much hassle now that I've just got my MBP setup where I'm happy with it. So I'm just going to go with an Archive and Install (no upgrades for me) and see how it works.

Drile

Sep 28, 2007, 01:27 AM

Clean install here. Just insures absolutely no problems and clears up any problems from before.

twoodcc

Sep 28, 2007, 06:36 AM

i'll clone with superduper, but then do an upgrade. if something goes wrong, i'll have my old system backed up

CavemanUK

Sep 28, 2007, 06:53 AM

Markleshark

Sep 28, 2007, 07:02 AM

I'll be formatting. Nothing quite like a clean out for a new OS.

JFreak

Sep 28, 2007, 07:06 AM

1) Upgrade to Leopard
2) Backup all relevant data
3) Do a clean install
4) Restore your data back

twoodcc

Sep 28, 2007, 07:30 AM

1) Upgrade to Leopard
2) Backup all relevant data
3) Do a clean install
4) Restore your data back

that's not a bad idea :)

AVR2

Sep 28, 2007, 07:31 AM

Does Migration Assistant still work if you want to pull your existing files over from an external backup HD, or does it only work if you're actually transferring directly between two Macs?

twoodcc

Sep 28, 2007, 07:59 AM

netdog

Sep 28, 2007, 08:21 AM

Fresh installs just render Safari so much snappier. Fresh install for me. No question.

crees!

Sep 28, 2007, 01:54 PM

Does Migration Assistant still work if you want to pull your existing files over from an external backup HD, or does it only work if you're actually transferring directly between two Macs?

I am wondering this too. My plan is to backup with Disk Utility my Powerbook as I always have to an external drive. Then wipe my PB clean, install Leopard, then use Migration Assistant to copy stuff back. Now, I do not want everything transferred back to my clean install.

How specific can you get with telling Migration Assistant what you want transferred? I would like to transfer email, Safari bookmarks, address book, iCal, keychain, the Movies, Music, and Documents folders; and that's it. I'm going to re-install all purchased apps myself.

Sbrocket

Sep 28, 2007, 04:14 PM

technically isnt an "archive and install" the same thing as an upgrade?

Not if you've made any changes or additions to the system files (kernel extensions, etc). Upgrade takes your current system files and just makes the necessary changes; Archive and Install completely moves all the old system files, and then does a fresh installation.

IJ Reilly

Sep 28, 2007, 04:24 PM

Upgrade takes your current system files and just makes the necessary changes;

Which in the case of a .X update, is probably everything.

Loge

Sep 28, 2007, 04:38 PM

Upgrade. Jaguar to Panther was quick and easy, as was Panther to Tiger. I don't expect this will be different. Clean install is basically a Windows mentality.

Carrot007

Sep 28, 2007, 04:45 PM

Upgrade. Jaguar to Panther was quick and easy, as was Panther to Tiger. I don't expect this will be different. Clean install is basically a Windows mentality.

Not necessarily, just the motivation is different.

On the mac I'll do a fresh install because over time I've put on thism that and the other, which means the hard drive is messy and a nice wipe and re-install will be so much quicker than cleaning up.

On windows the reason for a clean and fresh instal can be the above but is more often due to an unstable system for one reason or another.

psychofreak

Sep 28, 2007, 04:49 PM

Fresh install over here :)

None of the crap...

Sbrocket

Sep 28, 2007, 07:08 PM

Which in the case of a .X update, is probably everything.

I'm not saying that it doesn't change a lot, but there are subtle differences between the two methods that can't be ignored like the person I was replying to suggested.

IJ Reilly

Sep 28, 2007, 07:10 PM

I'm not saying that it doesn't change a lot, but there are subtle differences between the two methods that can't be ignored like the person I was replying to suggested.

What are the subtle differences, then?

Sbrocket

Sep 28, 2007, 07:50 PM

What are the subtle differences, then?

Suppose I've got a bunch of scripts that I've written and put in /usr/libexec. An Upgrade will leave them right where they were since it is just making the necessary changes and leaving everything else alone. Archive and Install would stick them in /Previous Systems/<something>/usr/libexec. Its possible that these scripts are incompatible with some or another part of Leopard, in which case simply doing an Upgrade install wouldn't work for me.

A better example is something like kernel extensions (the OSX Cisco VPN kext, for one). Archive and Install will move them out of the way before it install the new system - Upgrade will leave the right there. Subtle difference, but in earlier stages the latter method would result in a kernel panic on startup due to incompatibilities between the extension and the new system.

Archive and Install also gives you the option to either dump the old user files in Previous Systems along with everything else or preserve it in the new system.

There are numerous differences that, while small, make Upgrade a lot different from Archive and Install. Both have their purposes and for most people there is no practical difference between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install (as long as they choose to Preserve Users and Network Settings). But that doesn't mean they're the same thing.

richard.mac

Sep 28, 2007, 09:54 PM

I am wondering this too. My plan is to backup with Disk Utility my Powerbook as I always have to an external drive. Then wipe my PB clean, install Leopard, then use Migration Assistant to copy stuff back. Now, I do not want everything transferred back to my clean install.

How specific can you get with telling Migration Assistant what you want transferred? I would like to transfer email, Safari bookmarks, address book, iCal, keychain, the Movies, Music, and Documents folders; and that's it. I'm going to re-install all purchased apps myself.

i hope i can assist in some help here. migration assistant will migrate users, applications, network and machine settings, files, volumes. so migration assistant is pretty much for you here as it will import all your stuff you want to backup. users and files migration will import movies, pictures, music, users settings, keychain, bookmarks, email, contact, calenders etc. you can select not to import applications.

but when i used migration assistant with a cloned external backup after a clean install i was bombarded with simple OS crashes in crashreporter (not kernel panics) all the time and the responsiveness was very poor. i then did another fresh install and dragged my users library and main library along with apps, media etc while booted into the cloned backup. restarted into the main partition and everything was fine with all my stuff in the new system.

IJ Reilly

Sep 28, 2007, 11:56 PM

Suppose I've got a bunch of scripts that I've written and put in /usr/libexec.

Well that's hardly a common problem.

As for potentially incompatible kernel extensions installed by applications -- yes, that could conceivably be an issue. But if you reinstall those applications (and why would you not?), you're right back where you started.

Sbrocket

Sep 29, 2007, 01:08 AM

Well that's hardly a common problem.

"Both have their purposes and for most people there is no practical difference between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install (as long as they choose to Preserve Users and Network Settings). But that doesn't mean they're the same thing."

phillipjfry

Sep 29, 2007, 01:15 AM

I will most definitely be doing a fresh format/install of Leopard to get the full effect and then copy over the "necessaries" from my backup drive :)

Bern

Sep 29, 2007, 01:24 AM

Definitely a complete erase and install for me. Clean out any muck and custom install only the parts I need.

Hope we get it soon and it's not just an announcement at the end of October for release November.

seclusion

Sep 29, 2007, 07:04 AM

A New 500g Seagate Hd sitting on my shelf just waiting.
I think I'll spend the day reinstalling just so everything is fresh.
I can't see Apple being able to squash every little Tiger fluff in an upgrade.

cbrain

Sep 29, 2007, 08:49 AM

Backing up and then doing a clean install over here.

IJ Reilly

Sep 29, 2007, 09:36 AM

"Both have their purposes and for most people there is no practical difference between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install (as long as they choose to Preserve Users and Network Settings). But that doesn't mean they're the same thing."

I take your point. Mine is that the vast majority of Mac users gain nothing from installing clean. Apple makes upgrading uniquely painless, but still, many people seem determined to inflict pain on themselves.

Sbrocket

Sep 29, 2007, 11:09 AM

I take your point. Mine is that the vast majority of Mac users gain nothing from installing clean. Apple makes upgrading uniquely painless, but still, many people seem determined to inflict pain on themselves.

I agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong. Some people have a compulsion to completely reinstall and then redo everything from the ground up (Erase and Install) which unless there's a problem that they are actively trying to fix I really can't see much use in doing. I was replying more to the person who was asking what the difference was (if any) between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install.

IJ Reilly

Sep 29, 2007, 11:56 AM

I agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong. Some people have a compulsion to completely reinstall and then redo everything from the ground up (Erase and Install) which unless there's a problem that they are actively trying to fix I really can't see much use in doing. I was replying more to the person who was asking what the difference was (if any) between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install.

Agreed. Compulsion does seem like the right word. Masochism also comes to mind. ;)

Nabooly

Sep 29, 2007, 12:02 PM

My iMac is only a week old, so i think ill just do an upgrade. If i do a clean install, i dont think ive used this enough to clutter it yet :)

campbjr

Sep 29, 2007, 12:15 PM

1. Copy my list of apps. Click the apple symbol, open "about this mac" and then click on "more details". Then do "File-->Save As", chose RTF and you'll have a list of all apps and just about everything else about the current configuration. That'll help you replace any apps you installed and then can't remember their name later.
2. Copy all data files to the other HD in their regular, normal format (not using a backup app that "packages" them). For me, everything is in Documents, Movies, Music and Pictures and ALL of that is on a separate HD anyway. I still do a back up.
3. Run .Mac sync.
4. Run software updates in the off chance there are any firmware upgrades.
5. Make sure you have a good internet connection.
6. Do a clean install of the new OS.
7. Bask in the bi-annual glory :apple: style! :D

SpaceJello

Sep 29, 2007, 02:56 PM

darthraige

Sep 29, 2007, 04:34 PM

Hopefully new updated MacPro comes out with Leopard, that way it will have a nice new install on it. Then gonna Firewire my backups to it, then take my G4 Dual 800mhz PowerMac and throw it out the window.

JW008

Sep 30, 2007, 03:02 PM

Hi, I'm planning on doing an erase and install when Leopard arrives and just had a couple of questions about the process (specifically backing up), since I've never done it before (and admittedly makes me a little nervous).

I have an external firewire hard drive, so all back up I'm planning on doing on that.

1) There's just a couple of applications that I want to save (since I'll just reinstall, iLife '08 and Microsoft Office from the DVDs), what is the best way to do this? I have .Mac, so should I use Backup to save these or can I just drag and drop the applications I want to keep onto the external hard drive? Are there other things that I need to worry about along these lines?

2) Since I have .Mac, I assume that my Address Book, my mail settings, my iCal, my keychain, etc. can be resynced (from .Mac) once I complete the erase and install. Is that correct?

3) What about my iPhone? I know my iPod will sync back with no problem, but I'm a little worried about my iPhone. Will the phone still recognize this as the computer it originally was paired with? Will I have to restore the iPhone as well? Should I save the restore files that go along with the iPhone when I'm backing everything up?

4) Perhaps the stuff I am most worried about are my pictures (in iPhoto) and my music/videos (in iTunes). If I back these up (using .Mac Backup) can I restore them EXACTLY as they were before? (i.e. same albums, events in iPhoto and same playlists, play counts, etc in iTunes) Is .Mac Backup the best solution or is there a better way to do it?

I know this is a long a post and I really do appreciate all the help anyone can give me!

Stang68

Sep 30, 2007, 04:34 PM

Nabooly

Sep 30, 2007, 05:03 PM

i just got my MBP in June. I should probably just do an upgrade, right? And with an upgrade, Mac Office files and iTunes files/library and all that stuff remains intact, right? Im not going to lose any of it?

Nope, thats why its called an upgrade. Everything will still be there in the same place, and im almost positive that all your settings and preferences will stay the same.