The New Apple Pippin Gaming Console? [Archive]

dcl007

Dec 3, 2007, 09:40 AM

edesignuk

Dec 3, 2007, 09:43 AM

Your thoughts?Apple have sweet f-all experience in making games or consoles. Console wars are an incredibly expensive business.

In closing - worst. idea. evar.

dcl007

Dec 3, 2007, 09:47 AM

Please don't sugar coat it, tell me how you really feel ahaha.

bigandy

Dec 3, 2007, 09:50 AM

Apple have sweet f-all experience in making games or consoles. Console wars are an incredibly expensive business.

In closing - worst. idea. evar.

while i agree, sony had just about as much experience making consoles when the playstation came out ... ;)

liketom

Dec 3, 2007, 09:55 AM

while i agree, sony had just about as much experience making consoles when the playstation came out ... ;)

mmm a console too far - our house has :
PS2
PS3
Xbox
Xbox360
PSP Slim & Lite
DS Lite
Nintento Wii

so maybe 1 more might be too much :p

Dagless

Dec 3, 2007, 09:56 AM

No sir I can't see it happening. The market is already full of 3 consoles that fill the markets requirements. Microsoft want to make a handheld gaming platform too (I believe) which will be terrible, since the market is even more saturated there.

What could Apple provide that others don't in this market? iTunes?

2nyRiggz

Dec 3, 2007, 09:57 AM

mmm a console too far - our house has :
PS2
PS3
Xbox
Xbox360
PSP Slim & Lite
DS Lite
Nintento Wii

so maybe 1 more might be too much :p

I'm with you on that one...although I wouldn't put the apple console out of the picture entirely without seeing the exclusives.

Bless

edesignuk

Dec 3, 2007, 10:02 AM

while i agree, sony had just about as much experience making consoles when the playstation came out ... ;)I think it would be a lot harder, and considerably more expensive to break the current console market.

Didn't MS just have to wave goodbye to $1bn for a warranty extension scheme? Given Apple's recent hardware quality something like this wouldn't be too difficult to imagine. Sony are still making a loss on the PS3 etc.

Such a bad idea. It would be SO expensive, need SO much time, and SO many people to even begin to work, and then if it failed it would hurt them badly.

Kashchei

Dec 3, 2007, 10:02 AM

With their recent history, I could see Apple doing this just to get further market penetration with another popular product (cell phone, game console). On the other hand, I hope they don't take this path since it seems that they are already putting their efforts into computing on the back burner for these other projects (witness the delay in the release of Leopard)

dcl007

Dec 3, 2007, 10:04 AM

bigandy

Dec 3, 2007, 10:10 AM

I think it would be a lot harder, and considerably more expensive to break the current console market.
Definately. I'd not bother without at least $5bn. But Apple do have far more than that in the bank :p remember i'm still not saying it's possible, clever or anything!

Didn't MS just have to wave goodbye to $1bn for a warranty extension scheme? Given Apple's recent hardware quality something like this wouldn't be too difficult to imagine. Sony are still making a loss on the PS3 etc.
Lol. at least $1bn, prolly far more.

Such a bad idea. It would be SO expensive, need SO much time, and SO many people to even begin to work, and then if it failed it would hurt them badly.
aaaaabsolutely.

motulist

Dec 3, 2007, 10:16 AM

No, Apple needs to make a media centric living room computer that happens to play games, rather than a game console that happens to play media and fit in the living room. Apple has the right idea with AppleTV, though it still has a long way to go. Basically they just need to turn the mac mini into a totally living room friendly device, and that'll take over the world. It'll play all the awesome games that you can play on any Mac, like WoW, but that'll just be as a result of it being an all around awesome living room computer rather than being a game console that can do other things.

edesignuk

Dec 3, 2007, 10:20 AM

It'll play all the awesome games that you can play on any Mac, like WoW, but that'll just be as a result of it being an all around awesome living room computer rather than being a game console that can do other things.No it won't, because to play "awesome games" it would have to have high spec graphics and processing, something a home media device doesn't need and that the expense of which would make most people not buy.

Apple need to have a passable gaming experience on the desktop before they could even consider gaming media centres, and maybe then consoles.

koobcamuk

Dec 3, 2007, 10:22 AM

On the other hand, I hope they don't take this path since it seems that they are already putting their efforts into computing on the back burner for these other projects (witness the delay bugs in the release of Leopard)

Slight edit :)

motulist

Dec 3, 2007, 10:28 AM

No it won't, because to play "awesome games" it would have to have high spec graphics and processing, something a home media device doesn't need and that the expense of which would make most people not buy.

The Mac Mini is capable of delivering a very fun gaming experience, even on relatively modern games like WoW. And of course there are a gazillion slightly older titles that would run perfectly. And although the Mac mini can run amazing looking current games, the Wii has driven the message home - it's not so much about how dazzling the graphics are, it's about how fun and engaging the game is to play.

liketom

Dec 3, 2007, 10:49 AM

The Mac Mini is capable of delivering a very fun gaming experience, even on relatively modern games like WoW. And of course there are a gazillion slightly older titles that would run perfectly. And although the Mac mini can run amazing looking current games, the Wii has driven the message home - it's not so much about how dazzling the graphics are, it's about how fun and engaging the game is to play.

1 game :

Call of Duty 4 for Xbox 360 - excellent graphics/ excellent gameplay

this is how good games should be - if the Mini was pitched as a console of some type then it needs to get the basics right, but i think Apple might be way off if they want to compete with Xbox or even the Wii as they all have there own area in the gaming world.

The DS for example - crap graphics IMO - but fun play ! the same with the Wii - 360 and PS3 are candy for us gamers that want more.

GFLPraxis

Dec 3, 2007, 11:04 AM

These are all sweet points, exactly what I was hoping.
No doubt that the creation of a Mac console would take a hell of a long time, but why not have one more option when going out christmas shopping or something? Can't hurt to have one more. Besides I still have my NES, Nintendo 64, Sega Genesis, Gameboy and the first XBOX, and I still play them from time to time (minus the gameboy).

It would be really, really cool, but the problem is this; the gaming market is not only too saturated, but also really expensive to enter. With the sole exception of Nintendo, everyone has to loss-lead the systems and sell tons of games to make up for it. To gain only a 16% marketshare with the original XBox Microsoft had to absorb a 4-5 billion dollar loss; just for a foothold!

I doubt Apple could afford to dive in to the market, since they typically would sell the product for a profit (no one would buy it next to competitors) or wouldn't have the third party support to land initial exclusives and thus not make up their loss.

Now, Apple COULD theoretically enter the handheld market. Personally, I think the best idea right now is to position the iPhone/iPod Touch as a gaming handheld. Not the casual game crap that Apple is pushing over iTunes, but serious games. Look at the kind of things Nintendo has going on the DS, like Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (controlled entirely with the touch screen), or point and click adventures, or Brain Age/Brain Training, or Elite Beat Agents (which would be PERFECT for the iPhone).

THAT would be interesting.

MacRumorUser

Dec 3, 2007, 11:10 AM

Elite Beat Agents (which would be PERFECT for the iPhone).

Exactly. So cool to use your own tracks, though Apple would probably block that and charge us for the privilege.

But hey ho - Apple will offer basic gaming solutions and have third parties make them for them - just to appease the small minority who do game on their hardware. After all who really games on their ipod anyway ?

As many others have said. The market is too saturated as it is. Apple would be stupid to bother risking it.

killerrobot

Dec 3, 2007, 11:19 AM

How in the world would they produce games for a new game console when they can't even do it for their own line of computers?

pcypert

Dec 3, 2007, 11:40 AM

gkarris

Dec 3, 2007, 12:04 PM

They need to team with the Wii and get the appleTV paired with the Wii. Perfect for both systems. Nintendo sucks with content system apart from VC and no hard drive. AppleTV is kind of lame on it's own without some major hacking. Wii points cards that can get iTunes, VC, Movies, etc...all on one box in your living room...now we're talking :)

Nintendo has and will continue to do fine without anyone's help. Especially with the Wii.

The game console industry has always proven that there is always the top two, and the also-ran. Anyone with a 4th console on is essentially ignored.

Apple needs to stick with computers and iPods...

diamond.g

Dec 3, 2007, 12:46 PM

while i agree, sony had just about as much experience making consoles when the playstation came out ... ;)

Sony was supposed to create the "SNES CD" add-on with Nintendo. Sony wanted too much money for it (basically) and Nintendo walked away. Sony also created the sound chips that the SNES used. So they had some help with getting started in the console sector.

Apple probably could revive the Pippin, as long as they could stand to make one of two choices. Either make a system that goes up against the 360 and PS3 [losing tons of money in the process], or make a system that goes up against the Wii [and get creamed very very badly]. Not a whole lot of choice there. I don't even know if making a handheld would be a good idea. How would Apple attract developers to thier platform? The iPod Touch/iPhone would be a cool platform for games, if they were cheaper (less than 199, preferably as close to 99 as possible). They would need a killer app, something that would get tons of people lined up to get it.

Basically, I don't see Apple doing console games of any sort any time soon.

applekid

Dec 3, 2007, 04:33 PM

The Mac Mini is capable of delivering a very fun gaming experience, even on relatively modern games like WoW.

Sorry to rant here, but I assume by you saying WoW is "modern," I take it you mean a hardware intensive game? This isn't pointed towards you, but instead towards all of the silly WoW threads that pop up weekly...

This is the system requirements for WoW: http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?articleId=21054 . I don't understand why every Mac release we have to get a thread asking "will WoW run on my Mac?" OF COURSE IT'LL RUN ON YOUR MAC! The game is old! Blizzard has done a lot with the patches to improve the eye candy so that newer systems can take advantage of it, but damn... This game was running on Macs from about 6 years ago at bare minimum! *ahem*

But yes. Nintendo has already proven graphics don't matter. It's all about gameplay. (Although, with a game like Bioshock, an immersive story gets the job done, too.) But, Apple isn't a game company and not really a company that supported games all that well. Sure they wanted to bring Half Life 2 over to the Mac (according to the blog by IMG's editor-in-chief) and got EA to Cider-ize their games, but we all know Mac game performance ain't there. OpenGL and GPU drivers could be better, but Apple doesn't put in their full efforts on that anyway. Maybe if I saw some real effort in Mac gaming, I could try to support an Apple game console.

I want Apple in my living room, but I can't justify buying an AppleTV. Ever since the 360 added H.264 support, I've been using an external hard drive to watch my DVD rips of TV shows and movies. I only wish my iTunes content would be playable on the 360. I could see Apple partnering up with any of the three game console companies to provide iTunes content, but from seeing how Apple keeps iTunes all to itself, that probably isn't all that probable.

I'd also say there is room in the market for more competition, but it would take lots of risks, exclusives, and effort. If Microsoft or Sony can do it, so can another company. It's just the chance of failure is high by looking at some of the companies that attempted or dropped out of the console wars in the last two decades.

If there's any indication that Apple might be interested even in the slightest, it's those occasional game-related rumors we get.

Dagless

Dec 3, 2007, 04:50 PM

But yes. Nintendo has already proven graphics don't matter. It's all about gameplay.

Eh? Didn't the PS1 and 2 prove this already?

Virgil-TB2

Dec 3, 2007, 05:08 PM

I purpose that Apple renew its ties with 3rd party publishers and create some exclusive game titles for a Mac console, and fast. I would not suggest that they name the platform after an actual fruit like the Pippin, but something that is as cool, if not cooler, than "XBOX 360", "PS3" or "Wii". The team at Apple have more than enough intuitiveness to come up with the technology but if they are even considering competing in the video game world they should start sketching up ideas soon. Although the new consoles like XBOX 360, PS3 and Wii are still pretty young, everyone knows there's always going to be a new gaming technology and I strongly believe Apple should be at the front of it.

Your thoughts?Apple believes in open standards, so given that, you won't see any "DirectX" shenanigans from them. :)

Once you understand that idea, then an "Apple console" could only really exist if it's just a dedicated hardware box running OS-X but with "suped-up" specs.

So then if it's a small dedicated OS-X box connected to your TV that plays games,...

... my bet is we are either talking about a future version of AppleTV or they just won't do it at all.

psychofreak

Dec 3, 2007, 05:10 PM

Eh? Didn't the PS1 and 2 prove this already?

A big selling point of the PS2 was the awesome graphics...

Dagless

Dec 3, 2007, 05:19 PM

You are aware the PS2 had the comparatively worst graphics of last gen?

psychofreak

Dec 3, 2007, 05:20 PM

You are aware the PS2 had the comparatively worst graphics of last gen?

At the time it came out, it had the best graphics on the market.

Most people were hardly convinced the Xbox's games looked better, mainly because they didn't...

Dagless

Dec 3, 2007, 05:32 PM

You must have had your eyes shut or something. Xbox graphics were far superior; supported higher resolutions, more video ram, better texture effects. Xbox had 3x the speed CPU, 100mhz faster GPU, double the RAM, FSAA, DirectX support, cache due to the standard HDD...

They even had to turn down the graphics from the original Gamecube Resident Evil 4 to get it running well on PS2 hardware. And they're at a much closer spec than the Xbox.

psychofreak

Dec 3, 2007, 05:34 PM

You must have had your eyes shut or something. Xbox graphics were far superior

I really never noticed it in most games. Halo 2 was awesome, but then again MGS always blew me away on the PS2.

JackAxe

Dec 3, 2007, 06:15 PM

The PS2 did improve quite a bit from its early releases and they pushed out some nice looking games once developers figured it out, but it was technically inferior to the Cube and XBox on all fronts. Its popularity gave it priority over the other two consoles, so games were generally honed for it over a Xbox, which in turn ended up with PS2 level art.

raggedjimmi,
On the Cube thing, its biggest limitation was its 24 megs of VRAM, which caused a bottleneck. If it had 64 like the XBox, it would have been able to match it on most fronts. Performance wise a Cube is much closer to a Xbox than a PS2. Its TEV can do things the Xbox's shader can not and vice versa. The Cube got the shaft by developers who really didn't care to understand the TEV. It also didn't help that some spreadsheet company was dumping billions at a loss into marketing and spreading FUD to make their product look better.

RE:4 would've also been been compromised for the Xbox if they had ported it. The Cube could display more textures on a screen at one time -- even with its limited VRAM -- than the Xbox.

<]=)

seenew

Dec 3, 2007, 06:37 PM

LethalWolfe

Dec 3, 2007, 07:06 PM

At the time it came out, it had the best graphics on the market.
At the time the PS2 came out the Dreamcast had games w/better gfx.

Lethal

JackAxe

Dec 3, 2007, 07:34 PM

Apple's QC has been terrible in the last few years. Never have I heard more stories of failed hardware and software from this side of the fence (meaning it's nothing compared to PCs, but still). I think they are spread too thin as it stands, what with the iPods, (all 57 versions), the iPhone, and their neglected Mac lineup.

They need to cleanup the messes they have going on right now, hire more people, and get back to pleasing their oldschool fans before they start making game consoles or toasters or furniture.

(though Ives can feel free to make his own line of stuff for my livingroom!)

I agree.

My friend's MacBook Pro which he bought end of 2006 crashes with that hardware screen every other day. My parents have had their iBook for 4 years now and rarely have they seen that screen -- which is good since they're a 13 hour drive from me -- the same goes for my Rev 3 G5. Each new Tiger update has made my comp more unreliable, which is a complete opposite of past OS updates. It took a .11 update to make things better and I'm pretty sure we'll see a .12 also.

<]=)

psychofreak

Dec 3, 2007, 07:35 PM

At the time the PS2 came out the Dreamcast had games w/better gfx.

Lethal

Due to its dreadful controller, I don't count the Dreamcast as a major competitor...

LethalWolfe

Dec 3, 2007, 07:59 PM

Due to its dreadful controller, I don't count the Dreamcast as a major competitor...

The DC controller was awesome, IMO. The Xbox pretty much ripped it completely off and I've never found the PS controller to be comfortable in my hand.

But, yes, if you don't count the DC then I'll have to agree that in the face of no competition the PS2 did have the best gfx when it was released. ;)

Lethal

synth3tik

Dec 3, 2007, 08:04 PM

Due to its dreadful controller, I don't count the Dreamcast as a major competitor...

The DC controller was big and bulky, but I got used to it really fast. Sure beat the crap out of the N64 controller, now that was the worse ever.... until the gamecube controller.

My Japanese DC is still my favorite console. Hands down.

psychofreak

Dec 3, 2007, 08:06 PM

[QUOTE=synth3tik;4574570]Sure beat the crap out of the N64 controller/QUOTE]

Come again please...I think you may have just accidentally insulted the greatest controller ever...

Dagless

Dec 3, 2007, 08:18 PM

Hah, the N64 controller was something else. I never had a problem with that. I wouldn't call it the best but it was mighty fine. GC was my most comfiest though. It was just moulded to my hands.

Can't stand the Playstation ones. Not ergonomic enough.

360 has it in spades. I'm using one for developing my own game so it's in use for god knows how many hours a day. Great bit of kit!

spyker3292

Dec 3, 2007, 09:10 PM

I haven't read through all the responses. But if Apple made a new pippin then it would probably fail. Unless they open up to developers and try to add some thing to set it apart from the 360 or ps3 (the Wii's already set apart) and make it special. I just don't see them making a good console considering their past with game developers...

Chone

Dec 3, 2007, 10:07 PM

Exactly. So cool to use your own tracks, though Apple would probably block that and charge us for the privilege.

But hey ho - Apple will offer basic gaming solutions and have third parties make them for them - just to appease the small minority who do game on their hardware. After all who really games on their ipod anyway ?

As many others have said. The market is too saturated as it is. Apple would be stupid to bother risking it.

Isn't that iPod game Phase (developed by the guys who brought us Guitar Hero) a rhythm game that lets you play your own songs?

Nintendo and Apple should team up to make a DS2, Apple's multi-touch technology could do wonders for the little machine.

diamond.g

Dec 4, 2007, 06:28 AM

Isn't that iPod game Phase (developed by the guys who brought us Guitar Hero) a rhythm game that lets you play your own songs?

Nintendo and Apple should team up to make a DS2, Apple's multi-touch technology could do wonders for the little machine.

Do you think it could be made for <=$129 and still make a profit for Nintendo and Apple?

Dagless

Dec 4, 2007, 06:35 AM

Do you think it could be made for <=$129 and still make a profit for Nintendo and Apple?

Alternatively Nintendo could trade designs with them, say Multitouch for the multisized disc loader. Or simply license the tech or iTunes.

I just really can't see Apple doing this. But I can see their services reaching a wider audience. Just look at how Safari for Windows jumped out from nowhere!

diamond.g

Dec 4, 2007, 06:42 AM

Alternatively Nintendo could trade designs with them, say Multitouch for the multisized disc loader. Or simply license the tech or iTunes.

I just really can't see Apple doing this. But I can see their services reaching a wider audience. Just look at how Safari for Windows jumped out from nowhere!

My point was mostly to show that Nintendo usually makes a profit from the consoles they make. I know Apple does as well on the stuff they make. Do we really think the two would be able to compromise and potentially not make money?

Why would Nintendo want to use iTunes? Apples stuff can reach a larger audience because it isn't games. I don't think anyone can deny that Nintendo is doing quite well considering the view that videogames have amongst the population.

ChrisK018

Dec 4, 2007, 09:21 AM

My point was mostly to show that Nintendo usually makes a profit from the consoles they make. I know Apple does as well on the stuff they make. Do we really think the two would be able to compromise and potentially not make money?

Apple has had plenty of missteps along the way. The don't have a Midas touch or anything.

I just don't see the most Apple users (represented by that Mac vs. PC tool and silhouette people dancing to trendy music with iPods in commercials) as being all about games. Sure, the console itself would probably look super-sweet, but it's as it is said in here often all about the GAMES. A nice iTunes program or Safari web browser hardly indicates that Apple has any game developing skills. Bungie saved MS's rear-end with Halo. Apple would need to have some franchise-worthy game ready to roll, and those are hard to come by these days.

Antares

Dec 4, 2007, 09:45 AM

Apple should team with Phantom to produce a console game system. Design it so that it plays both Xbox360 and PS3 games. Then they'll have something.....

desenso

Dec 4, 2007, 09:53 AM

Terrible idea.

2nyRiggz

Dec 4, 2007, 10:28 AM

Apple should team with Phantom to produce a console game system. Design it so that it plays both Xbox360 and PS3 games. Then they'll have something.....

They'll have something alright...a lawsuit. Apple should stick to what it does best and thats ipods & macs and improve in these areas(because they really need to) a gaming division won't be very lucrative for apple and might take there focus off the bread & butter...I rather them stick to that.

Bless

whooleytoo

Dec 4, 2007, 10:48 AM

I don't think Apple would need many exclusives; just simulaneous launch of a handful of big-name releases which they could then spend the marketing bucks on.

However, I get the feeling Jobs' interests are Apple's interests, and I get the feeling Jobs doesn't like games. At all. He's perfectly happy demoing photo and video software on stage, but if a game is to be demoed he always just hands it over.

diamond.g

Dec 4, 2007, 11:33 AM

I don't think Apple would need many exclusives; just simulaneous launch of a handful of big-name releases which they could then spend the marketing bucks on.
How does Apple secure those games in the first place? I mean look at the "quality" stuff Mac Gamers have gotten from EA.

However, I get the feeling Jobs' interests are Apple's interests, and I get the feeling Jobs doesn't like games. At all. He's perfectly happy demoing photo and video software on stage, but if a game is to be demoed he always just hands it over.

This is a good point. I also thought it was interesting to see Apple basically promote 3 of the 4 computer lines they have for gaming. I mean none of EA's stuff runs on the Macbook which I had always thought was the most sold computer they have. You would have thought they would have told EA that the games they released needed to be able to run on a Macbook.