Mhm, Caught them... iDvd lying scum at apple

[Panther Blue]

Yeah, look at this, think about this. "The reason we aren't allowing downloads of iDVD is because of the file size, but we'll be glad to ship it to you on CD for 49 dollars."

Now, why did they not just ship it with Panther..?

[Rower_CPU]

Because not every Mac has a Superdrive.

[Panther Blue]

But what about users that actually buy iLife because they don't have the internet? See, I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying that they had NO EXCUSE to charge for that and claim it to not be for profit.

[Rower_CPU]

Well, you're paying for an upgrade to your software (programmers, development, etc.) plus the distribution to DVDs.

I'm sure they recouped some costs, but I doubt it was "for profit".

[Panther Blue]

I guess, and I'm sorry for talking a lot of bad about Apple lately, but they've screwed me over with two things this year and they don't give a crap, even though I've filed formal complaints.

[Kwyjibo]

iDVD has always been a pay per upgrade app ... no one expects it to be free like iTunes or iPhoto or iMovie...

iDVD is an application, apple sets the upgrade parameters the same as it does with all other apps like FCP and DVDSP2. iDVD is too big for the average user to download, not the program itself but the extensive theme sets and effects provided with it take up a lot of space. My limiting the program to a DVD apple can also institue checks when the cd is autostarted to make sure you have an internal dvd writer

[iJon]

apple hasnt screwed you out of anything. idvd has always been a pay progam unless it came with your machine. that would be 2 extra cd's per panther box or an extra dvd. no one is forcing you to use idvd 3, it a very good program superior to anything out there and they are charging 49 dollars for it, stop complaining. your imac came with idvd 2, use it if you cant pay the 50 for 3.

iJon

[rainman::|:|]

personally, i think Apple should not charge for any iApp... none of their consumer software at all, even appleworks if a pro suite comes out. iLife should be free, what a promotion that would be... kind of the all-in-one-box approach... which apple has lacked for some time...

pnw

[Freg3000]

Here is the deal. It is not about complaining, which he is justified in doing. Sure, make the point that iDVD has never been a downloaded app, or that it has never been free, fine. Those are all valid, but don't address what the original poster said.

I just watched the MWSF keynote back, and Steve says that the reason that iDVD can't be downloaded is because it is "hundreds of megabytes." Not because there is no history of Apple allowing downloads of it. So Blue Panther's first observation is correct, with the introduction of Panther, Apple could have bundled it, like they did with X11. But they didn't. They want you to buy it.

[Panther Blue]

Originally posted by iJon
apple hasnt screwed you out of anything. idvd has always been a pay progam unless it came with your machine. that would be 2 extra cd's per panther box or an extra dvd. no one is forcing you to use idvd 3, it a very good program superior to anything out there and they are charging 49 dollars for it, stop complaining. your imac came with idvd 2, use it if you cant pay the 50 for 3.

iJon

I'm not saying they screwed me with that, they screwed me with some other stuff. And please chill, not to be mean, but you are approaching me in a rude way, and I don't react well to that. People tend to listen to you more if you are calm.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Freg3000
Here is the deal. It is not about complaining, which he is justified in doing. Sure, make the point that iDVD has never been a downloaded app, or that it has never been free, fine. Those are all valid, but don't address what the original poster said.

I just watched the MWSF keynote back, and Steve says that the reason that iDVD can't be downloaded is because it is "hundreds of megabytes." Not because there is no history of Apple allowing downloads of it. So Blue Panther's first observation is correct, with the introduction of Panther, Apple could have bundled it, like they did with X11. But they didn't. They want you to buy it.
yeah that is true, but i still think 49 dollars is more than reasonable for idvd 3, i still find it amazing that apple gives the other iapps away. apps like that would make a killing if they were sold in the windows world, probably the mac world too.

iJon

[Rower_CPU]

Freg3000-
You're stilling ignoring the point that Apple doesn't distribute iDVD to non-Superdrive equipped Macs. Bundling it with Panther does just that.

iDVD3 comes with any Superdrive equipped Mac bought since it was released. It's not a typical app, it's something bundled with your Mac.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Panther Blue
I'm not saying they screwed me with that, they screwed me with some other stuff. And please chill, not to be mean, but you are approaching me in a rude way, and I don't react well to that. People tend to listen to you more if you are calm.
im not approaching your in a mean way, and if i was im sorry you cant handle it. but anyways we are just stating the obvious. 49 dollars is reasonable, i dont see what the big deal is.

iJon

[Panther Blue]

I am fine with handling it, and I don't want to argue with you, I'm just saying, that's the way to start a conflict. But on the point, I just don't like the fact that they give one reason for charging for it, yet they don't use available solutions to not charge. I mean, the packaging and all cannot cost them more than $10, it just can't. And to charge 49, plus sales tax in many states, and shipping if you buy it online... it's just ridiculous. I want apple to make a profit, I'm a shareholder, but there is a point when they are being greedy and lying about it.

[Sun Baked]

The real squable should have been over the support for more third-party DVD burners and a broader range of external burner options (ie, FW800 versions).

Apple added support for a large number of CD-R and CD-RW drives for free, time for them to jump on the third-party DVD burner bandwagon for the nominal price of $50.

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Freg3000-
You're stilling ignoring the point that Apple doesn't distribute iDVD to non-Superdrive equipped Macs. Bundling it with Panther does just that.

iDVD3 comes with any Superdrive equipped Mac bought since it was released. It's not a typical app, it's something bundled with your Mac.

I understand, and you are quite right. However if it were to be bundled with Panther, as an extra app (like X11) it would be good for everyone, as people with superdrived machines could get the new version, and those without SD computers would ignore it. I am by no means suggesting that Apple should include it in the basic OS (like it is in the dock when you first install). After all, if Apple really wanted it to be free, it wouldn't be a problem to do this. But they want you to pay for it.

I have no problem with them wanting you to buy it. I do have a problem with them pretending like they sell iDVD to you solely because it is too big.

[Panther Blue]

Hey, I'm the lawyer-wannabe here! But thanks Freg for making my point for me.... good on you. I would like to add, however, that the hundreds of megabytes download IS a valid consideration, bandwidth etc, but there are many detours.

[latergator116]

I agree that Apple should hgive the option of being able to download iDVD as well as selling it to those that cant.

[benixau]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I understand, and you are quite right. However if it were to be bundled with Panther, as an extra app (like X11) it would be good for everyone, as people with superdrived machines could get the new version, and those without SD computers would ignore it. I am by no means suggesting that Apple should include it in the basic OS (like it is in the dock when you first install). After all, if Apple really wanted it to be free, it wouldn't be a problem to do this. But they want you to pay for it.

I have no problem with them wanting you to buy it. I do have a problem with them pretending like they sell iDVD to you solely because it is too big.

dont like it? go get DVD Studio Pro. What! Dont have 500 big ones - awwwwwww.

I got 2 SD Pmacs and an emac in my home. I will tell you this. The macs that don't have Sdrives dont need iDVD. Those that do have Sdrive will probably be able to afford AU$100 for a 1.5GB program.

No. I wont pretend that Apple is only doing it for the sake of saving bandwidth (more later) but I dont believe that they are doing it for profit.

Bandwidth. I only get 3GB/mnth before i get cut from 1.5Mbps to 28.8K (slow speed instead of xtra MB charge). I can not go downloading 1.5GB and hope that my family just accepts that they have half their high-speed limit left.
Now Apple also saves bandwidth. Approx 1million SD macs out there. That makes a hellofa lot of download bandwidth for them even with (and by the standards of) akamai. They save a lot in saved bandwidth.

Profit. No. Recouping cost from past developments. Yes. I dont think they makew much profit. Think about how that box get to the shelves. All the costs their. They are just recouping costs. The real savings come from saved bandwidth. Also people on dial-up will buy it and have it sooner than a 56K connection is going to let them.

[nuckinfutz]

Steve should really refrain from lying. iDVD is not a downloadable option because it's too large. Hell people download 600MB+ Linux ISO all the time.

The real issue is licensing. If you don't have a Superdrive then there's no reason to download iDVD. If you do have a Superdrive and say your computer came with iDVD2 then you have to pony up the cash to upgrade.

Unlike MP3 encoders MPEG2 Encoders have higher licensing fees. The MPEG2 component for Quicktime is $20 so that should give you a hint at the differences.

I can't fault Apple. If they ship a working iDVD and I use it then I'm probably willing to pay for a future version if the features suit me.

[howard]

a company can do whatever they want and a customer can do whatever they want

if customer complains to company then fine....

if company ignores customer then fine...

if the company changes...great! if the customer changes companys...great!

i think you get the point...

[oldschool]

iDVD came with my combo drive Al15" pb.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by oldschool
iDVD came with my combo drive Al15" pb.

That's pretty unlikely. How'd that happen?

[mj_1903]

iDVD came with my 12" PBook. Seems its just a random entrant or they don't want to have separate images.

[therevolution]

yeah. iDVD came with my powermac w/ cd-rw. It's on the restore CDs too. I'm guessing mj's right; they just preload the same OS image whether or not the computer has a superdrive.

[rickvanr]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Freg3000-
You're stilling ignoring the point that Apple doesn't distribute iDVD to non-Superdrive equipped Macs. Bundling it with Panther does just that.

iDVD3 comes with any Superdrive equipped Mac bought since it was released. It's not a typical app, it's something bundled with your Mac.

i got my copy of idvd from a friend who bought an ibook and had had idvd and ilife bundled with it, he had no use for it, so he gave it to me.

[Abraxsis]

You're stilling ignoring the point that Apple doesn't distribute iDVD to non-Superdrive equipped Macs. Bundling it with Panther does just that.

iDVD3 comes with any Superdrive equipped Mac bought since it was released. It's not a typical app, it's something bundled with your Mac.


I also recieved iDVD3 with my new 1GHz 12" Powerbook Combo Drive. It runs fine its just that the burn option is disabled. But I can make DVD content and export it to Toast and burn on my external DVD burner just fine.

[Rower_CPU]

Thanks for the info guys. It looks like Apple has started distributing it a little more widely lately, especially to pro machines.

The single restore image for a product line sort of makes sense, especially when the majority of the default configs now have Superdrives (3 of 5 AlBooks, all G5s).

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Freg3000-
You're stilling ignoring the point that Apple doesn't distribute iDVD to non-Superdrive equipped Macs. Bundling it with Panther does just that.

iDVD3 comes with any Superdrive equipped Mac bought since it was released. It's not a typical app, it's something bundled with your Mac.

That's not quite true, as the September PowerBooks include iDVD even on the non-SuperDrive machines.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
That's not quite true, as the September PowerBooks include iDVD even on the non-SuperDrive machines.

Read my post before yours. I just said that. :p

[kenyabob]

Wait though, what if I had iDVD on jaguar when my machine first shipped like a month ago, and now I have jaguar and have since lost the app. Can I somehow get that ol' iDVD back to panther?

[Rower_CPU]

You can reinstall it from your software restore CDs that came with the machine.

[iJon]

any computer model apple makes that has a superdrive available idvd will be on it, just so they can have the same disc images no matter which model you are buying. that means powerbooks, powermacs, emacs and imacs will have idvd on them, even if you ordered a combo drive on your specific model. this is why ibooks do not come with idvd, its because there isnt any ibook model that you can get a superdrive. the reason some people's ibooks near january came with ilife wasnt because of idvd, but apple just put ilife into every box that hadnt shipped out and didnt have ilife preinstalled on the hard drive.

iJon

[the_dalex]

Apple never ever claimed that Panther would include iDVD 3. This is a totally separate issue from not allowing people to download it. Connecting the two is a real leap of logic.

Don't forget, the $49 iLife is ALL of the products, not just iDVD. You're upset that they aren't offering iDVD by itself for less money. They can distribute however they see fit; you are turning your self-generated expectations into a criticism of Apple's decision. $49 is a steal for a good, basic DVD authoring program.

Steve was not a liar, they don't want to spend bandwidth on thousands of GB downloads, would you?

[iJon]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Apple never ever claimed that Panther would include iDVD 3. This is a totally separate issue from not allowing people to download it. Connecting the two is a real leap of logic.

Don't forget, the $49 iLife is ALL of the products, not just iDVD. You're upset that they aren't offering iDVD by itself for less money. They can distribute however they see fit; you are turning your self-generated expectations into a criticism of Apple's decision. $49 is a steal for a good, basic DVD authoring program.

Steve was not a liar, they don't want to spend bandwidth on thousands of GB downloads, would you?
well basically you are just apying for idvd because you can download imovie, iphoto and itunes. it is already a great steal, and even more of a steal if you have dialup or no internet at all.

iJon

[noel4r]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Because not every Mac has a Superdrive.

how about those who do? or how about including the software in Macs that have Superdrive?

[wr0x2]

They already charge alooot for dvd studio pro, and I doubt that Akaimi has a lot of trouble with filesize and downloads. Oh well, it's their app and I don't have a superdrive :rolleyes:.

They could always seed it on bittorrent
</sarcasm>

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by noel4r
how about those who do? or how about including the software in Macs that have Superdrive?

Uh, they do.