is this tiger copy legal?

[bionictony]

Here's the story, I bought this from ebay, thinking it would work on my ibook G4 1ghz. I have panther and wanted to upgrade to tiger.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130223261312

I received the package and it looks like a burned dvd copy(blue reflective disk) compared to a legal copy (silver reflective disk). I emailed the guy and got this message back:

Thank you very much for contacting us with your concern, yes it
is, allow me to please explain to you the origin of the disc , but
please know that a full refund is always at your disposal.
This is not a regular grey disc(the ones that come with macs and
are machine specific) this disc did not come with a mac, you see,
this disc is from a mac training center that is selling their excess
OS X to make room for the new OS X that just came out , and as
it works they purchase whole lots of licenses, not discs, and then
use the licenses along with a master retail version that they are
provided to create the discs as needed, this is why even thought
labeled it is not machine specific, it is hardware specific, please
know that the license is correct, most important you will able to
confirm this personally if you decided to keep it because the 1st
time you connect to the internet after the installation is
completed, the system will automatically prompt you to accept
10.4.11 download from apple website which would not be
allowed if the license was not correct. Having said all this if you
still wish to return for a refund please just reply requesting
return instructions for your full refund and please do not install
so the license will still be usable. I truly stand behind all our
sales.

PS: please remember to back up all your personal files prior to
installation.

Thanks and keep ebaying
Mike :-)


So is it a legal tiger copy? Or should I return for a refund? Is there a way to check licensing? Thanks in advance for the replies everyone.

[Peace]

I know Server has a licensing program. Not sure about the client version.

This does make you ask why the seller has this picture (http://i7.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/f1/4e/4664_1.JPG) on ebay.

That's a pic of the original DVD. If that's not what you got I'd ask for my money back then report him to Apple legal

[tyr2]

Interesting one. I've often wondered what the licensable entity is. Since OS X doesn't have any sort of serial numbering or certificates then it's not clear what can be transfered.

In this case if his story is true about the training centre having some sort of bulk licensing deal, then I'd would doubt that this deal can be transfered piecemeal to other parties by the sale of the media.

Did you receive some paper based documentation with a license agreement printed on it? For example the Leopard retail package comes with a 'Software License Agreement for Mac OS X' in the back of the documentation.

The below statement is incorrect, this does not validate anything, the same thing would happen if it was illegitimate.

, please
know that the license is correct, most important you will able to
confirm this personally if you decided to keep it because the 1st
time you connect to the internet after the installation is
completed, the system will automatically prompt you to accept
10.4.11 download from apple website which would not be
allowed if the license was not correct. .

All in all it's a difficult one to verify 100% but if all you have is the disk at present then I doubt that's enough to be able to consider it a 100% okay transfer.

IANAL etc..

[ben.mcmahan]

Yeah, the updates will run no matter the pedigree or legitimacy of the software disk. The fact that he uses this as validating evidence is probably more sketchy.

While true, that many times companies will buy x number of licenses, the situation I am familiar with is where they buy 100 licenses for 100 machines, but only open, say 10, of them b/c you dont need to use a new disk for each install. They could install on all 100 from a single disk if they care to, since they purchased 100 licenses.
The problem is, sometimes these other 90 (or 99) boxed versions will 'walk off' and get gifted/sold/etc. and while the company paid for the 100, they didnt pay for the + over 100.

I dont know what i'm talking about re: this, so perhaps this is 100% legit, and I'd hate to trash someone else out of my own ignorance, but it sounds goofy.
That said, I doubt you'll get in trouble, although I dont know if both of you (or just they) are responsible if something ever came to a head.

[bionictony]

I got what was pictured in the auction. the disk was a dvd copy. On the label side of the dvd there is usually the dvd brand but has been covered up by a something made from a cd label maker. The "insert sheet" also was a good injet color copy.

[Peace]

Ask the guy what company he's getting these "legal" copies from.

Personally I think he's making copies and selling them. Plain and simple.

[robbieduncan]

It is a 100% illegal copy.

[chas0001]

If it does not look legitimate then it probably isn't. Ask for your money back.

[jeremy.king]

It is a 100% illegal copy.

Agreed, look at the seller's history of auctions...hundreds and hundreds of copies???

I'd contact Apple and let them pursue this guy, or at a minimum, report it to the SIIA (http://www.siia.net/piracy/report.asp)

[CanadaRAM]

The claim of the seller does not hold water.

A software site license such as a training company or a university might have, is for use on that site only. The license comes with restrictive terms and conditions, and generally these terms include that they are not permitted to be sold or given to people outside the site.

Apple OS's also do not have 'license keys' that permit or disable updating.

Based on the information provided, it sounds like the seller is BS'ing you and is selling pirated goods. Contact Apple, contact eBay.

[Consultant]

seller claims:
"please know that the license is correct, most important you will able to
confirm this personally if you decided to keep it because the 1st
time you connect to the internet after the installation is
completed, the system will automatically prompt you to accept
10.4.11 download from apple website which would not be
allowed if the license was not correct."

That is completely BS. OS X client does not authenticate.

The seller is fradulent.

[Peace]

I'd try to get my money back because he has been reported to Apple Legal.

If you think a person is selling illegal copies please send email with pertinent info to piracy@apple.com

[sOwL]

100% Illegal copy

1)OS X doesnt authenticate when it runs software update
2)What he says about the licences could be true, but if that was the case he wouldnt have the right to sell those disks
3)The picture certainly isnt what you got, and as you said, you can make out a DVD-R label under the ink

If this guy actually returns ur money as he claims, you will be lucky, but my guess is that he says that so you think "what the heck, if he tells me he can return my money, its legal". Report him to both apple and ebay...

and to the fbi as well ^^

EDIT: "Return policy not specified." <--- ?

[Mashiach]

Don't you just hate these scams.
I wouldn't just report him to apple, ebay and FBI and report him to

TEAM AMERICA!!!!!!!!

[mperkins37]

I noticed that he has sold hundreds, if not thousands of these illegal copies. All 4 of the negatives he got were for dvd copys of the OSX Tiger. Report him immediately to Ebay, Apple, & The FBI.
What he is doing is illegal as hell.
It's amazing that so many sheep on ebay thought that they were still getting a great deal & gave positive feedback.
Have Apple Spank Him.

[Cromulent]

Definitely illegal.

[dacreativeguy]

If the disc doesn't have a silk-screened Apple label and logo, then it is pirated. It doesn't really take much analysis.

[krye]

Since when does OS X have a license? Anyway, if anything he violated eBay's terms by misrepresenting what he sold. No where in that auction does he state the origin of the disc. It's misleading. If you're concerned about Apple chasing you down, I'd get my money back. Reporting him is up to you.

I too got scammed on eBay. I purchased 4 Jam packs from someone in the UK. They turned out to be burned copies w/o a box or paperwork. Just 4 disks with printed labels. I asked for my money back, to which the seller dropped of the face of the earth. I reported her to eBay, Apple, and some other software piracy company. I can't remember their name. I think it was BSA (https://reporting.bsa.org/usa/home.aspx?pr=1&CMP=BAC-GoogleAdNetwork&creative=1MilWhistle728&HBX_OU=). My argument was if I wanted a bootleg copy I could have easily downloaded it myself. Since I want a legit version, the copies are no good to me.

[mperkins37]

I already have Apple on the case. It is piracy, as training facilities get the software discounted & cannot re-sell under any circumstances.

[hoodedavenger]

I bought a copy as well from the same seller. Seems Apple and eBay haven't done anything about him yet.

Mine was similar. It's a DVD-R with what looks like a directly-printed label and a copied brochure.

Is there any way to get a legal copy of Tiger on eBay? Are there any other good sources for a legal copy? Is it even any cheaper to go with Tiger instead of Leopard? :p

[Le Big Mac]

2)What he says about the licences could be true, but if that was the case he wouldnt have the right to sell those disks

Not sure they do licenses like this, since when I was running a small shop we asked if we could buy 10 licenses to Tiger and were told to buy 10 individual copies (business not eligible for family pack). So that's what we did. Never opened 8 of them (used 2 for installing). Now, it's possible that if we had wanted 100 or 1000 we could have done something different.

[Consultant]

Not sure they do licenses like this, since when I was running a small shop we asked if we could buy 10 licenses to Tiger and were told to buy 10 individual copies (business not eligible for family pack). So that's what we did. Never opened 8 of them (used 2 for installing). Now, it's possible that if we had wanted 100 or 1000 we could have done something different.

NOPE, this seller sells pirated copies that me made for a few cents.

Even if you can mass license, you would get a real ORIGINAL disk for each license, not a burned copy.

[taylorwilsdon]

These are pirated. If you report it not to ebay, but to the software piracy agency's, you can actually get a $$$ reward and buy a legit copy!

https://reporting.bsa.org/usa/home.aspx

[The General]

Who cares, it will work either way.

[MBHockey]

Who cares, it will work either way.

It violates the SLA, for one. And secondly, you don't know if the seller is even selling you a genuine COPY of the Tiger install disc. He could have modified the actual software. Fact is, you have no idea what you're installing on your Mac.

[hoodedavenger]

Who cares, it will work either way.

If I wanted to steal a copy, I could probably download it for free.

[scaredpoet]

If the disc doesn't have a silk-screened Apple label and logo, then it is pirated. It doesn't really take much analysis.

While reselling burned media on eBay is most certainly a scam, I will say that not ALL uses of OS X from burned DVDs is pirated software.

My employer also has a volume licensing program, with Apple, Microsoft and a number of other software vendors, including Adobe. The majority of the OSes and software packages we purchase through that agreement come to us as downloadable ISO (after authentication, of course). We can then burn a copy using our own CD or DVD media, and a PDF copy of the software license is also made available for download, complete with serial number. Separately, the genuine license, on paper, is delivered by mail.

We can also ask to have media shipped to us, but more often than not, we shell out 10 or so extra bucks and end up with a burned DVD, same as if we had burned it locally.

This was the case with Tiger. However, Leopard was a different story, and we did get boxed copies with pressed DVDs in that case (there was no "burn you own disc" option for Leopard).

In this case, our use of that software on that burned is perfectly legal, and we have the documentation on file to prove it. there may be other large businesses or educational institutions who have similar agreements. Their use of burned media is legit.

That said, we DO get significant discounts for buying in volume and as a result, I do not think it's kosher to resell these licenses, even if we're no longer using them.