browser incompatibility unacceptable

[danredwing]

I've been awfully frustrated with Mobileme...I used to be able to check my .mac account from work on my network machine which runs Internet Explorer 6. I'm now getting a "browser incompatible message when I try to log in to mobileme.

Seriously, the website isn't all that complicated and I've never had an issue with any other website from my work computer before. Because I work for a bank, the whole system is locked and I'm not able to install one of the newer browsers.

Anyone else having this same problem? I've already contacted Apple directly and left feedback here:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

If you know of a workaround, I'd appreciate it!

Dan

[DeaconGraves]

Anyway you can contact your IT department and ask them to upgrade the browsers?

Seriously IE 6 is getting old. An IE 7 upgrade shouldn't be out of the question (all browser prefs. aside)

[BillyBobBongo]

It says on the Apple website that you'll be needing Firefox or Safari I'm afraid, since IE7 isn't working fully with it!

[DeaconGraves]

It says on the Apple website that you'll be needing Firefox or Safari I'm afraid, since IE7 isn't working fully with it!

Look closer. You were checking under the Mac requirements. (Where there is no IE7)
\

EDIT: Nevermind. I should look closer. Although the OP should at least be able to access the page.

[danredwing]

No ability to upgrade I'm afraid. Banks are notoriously slow at upgrading software for security reasons. they'll upgrade all 30,000 machines at the same time...sometime.

I understand what the official word is from Apple, I just think that it is ridiculous. there is nothing revolutionary in their web interface...in fact it is much less sophisticated than gmail and google calendar which run on pretty much any browser without issues.

Dan

[ihabime]

No ability to upgrade I'm afraid. Banks are notoriously slow at upgrading software for security reasons. they'll upgrade all 30,000 machines at the same time...sometime.

I understand what the official word is from Apple, I just think that it is ridiculous. there is nothing revolutionary in their web interface...in fact it is much less sophisticated than gmail and google calendar which run on pretty much any browser without issues.

Dan

Actually, both gmail and google calendars had huge issues with safari when they were first released.

[BillyBobBongo]

No ability to upgrade I'm afraid.

Sorry to hear that. My wife used to work in a company that stilled used 'Lotus Notes' because it cost too much to upgrade so many computers! :eek:

[newappleboy]

Okay, here's a rather convoluted way to get it to work:

1) Go to PortableApps.com (http://www.portableapps.com) and download the Firefox version found there. It wants you to install on a USB drive, but just pick a folder on your computer and have it do so there. Since it's not actually "installing" per se, but merely extracting to that folder, you won't violate any restrictions placed on the system by the bank IT.
2) Find the program within the folder and create a shortcut to it within your QuickLaunch toolbar on taskbar so you can launch firefox easily in the future without navigating to that folder (since it won't be in the start menu)
3) Make sure you go into the advanced settings and check your network connection. For me at least, I had to change it to automatically detect proxy settings before it would pick up my work's network.

This should enable you to have firefox instead of IE 6. :cool:

[levitynyc]

IE 6 is so insecure and ******. I am so surprised that a bank of all places would have you running it.

[benmrii]

Actually, both gmail and google calendars had huge issues with safari when they were first released.

That was an issue with Safari, though, much more so than Google.

[clevin]

No ability to upgrade I'm afraid.



1) Go to PortableApps.com (http://www.portableapps.com) and download the Firefox version found there.

yes, portable firefox runs from a USB drive, all settings will be USB drive too, no installation, run everywhere (except OSX), is indeed a better way to go.

[BillyBobBongo]

yes, portable firefox runs from a USB drive, all settings will be USB drive too, no installation, run everywhere (except OSX), is indeed a better way to go.

Should've known you'd eventually arrive here to clarify that point! :D

[clevin]

Should've known you'd eventually arrive here to clarify that point! :D

:D, there is portable firefox for OSX too, just very old version..

[ihabime]

That was an issue with Safari, though, much more so than Google.

And this is probably an issue with IEs Non-standard rendering or javascript. For years IE pushed it's own standards on web sites, remember those annoying little "Best viewed in internet explorer" tags? Finally web designers are moving toward real standards and I find it quite funny that IE is being left out in the cold.

[clevin]

And this is probably an issue with IEs Non-standard rendering or javascript. .

Im not sure thats true, firefox was supported from start by gmail. I doubt that was an issue with standard.

[benmrii]

And this is probably an issue with IEs Non-standard rendering or javascript. For years IE pushed it's own standards on web sites, remember those annoying little "Best viewed in internet explorer" tags? Finally web designers are moving toward real standards and I find it quite funny that IE is being left out in the cold.

Well, I'm looking at this from more of a logical stance than a deep knowledge of the inner-workings of web browsers and their differences. But when Google's calendar and gmail were released they worked on 90% of all browsers. At MobileMe's release it only fully works on two. Coupled with the ongoing reality of Safari still being a pretty subpar browser compared to Firefox (and others, that's just what I use primarily), I'm inclined to believe the issue was with Safari.

[gt9228a]

Okay, here's a rather convoluted way to get it to work:

1) Go to PortableApps.com (http://www.portableapps.com) and download the Firefox version found there. It wants you to install on a USB drive, but just pick a folder on your computer and have it do so there. Since it's not actually "installing" per se, but merely extracting to that folder, you won't violate any restrictions placed on the system by the bank IT.
2) Find the program within the folder and create a shortcut to it within your QuickLaunch toolbar on taskbar so you can launch firefox easily in the future without navigating to that folder (since it won't be in the start menu)
3) Make sure you go into the advanced settings and check your network connection. For me at least, I had to change it to automatically detect proxy settings before it would pick up my work's network.

This should enable you to have firefox instead of IE 6. :cool:

The IT Department wont even let USB sticks to be used. I can plug it in but cannot access the drive or run any programs off it, unless I find a hidden way to do it I am not familiar with it. I was going to use portable firefox but that may be out of the question.

[newappleboy]

The IT Department wont even let USB sticks to be used. I can plug it in but cannot access the drive or run any programs off it, unless I find a hidden way to do it I am not familiar with it. I was going to use portable firefox but that may be out of the question.

If you'll look at step 1 again, I stated that you don't have to install it on the USB drive. You can set the Desktop or My Documents as the install directory and that's where it'll place the folder.

[ihabime]

Well, I'm looking at this from more of a logical stance than a deep knowledge of the inner-workings of web browsers and their differences. But when Google's calendar and gmail were released they worked on 90% of all browsers. At MobileMe's release it only fully works on two. Coupled with the ongoing reality of Safari still being a pretty subpar browser compared to Firefox (and others, that's just what I use primarily), I'm inclined to believe the issue was with Safari.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but I can't see how mobileme running on safari and firefox but not IE can be a safari problem. It mostly has to do with IEs refusal to properly implement the Document Object Model properly and it's non-ecma compliant version of javascript(microsoft calls theirs jscript). If you look at this page comparing DOM implementations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28DOM%29), trident(IEs rendering engine) Has funky support for DOM 1, minor support for DOM 2 and no support for DOM 3. DOM and javascript are key to web 2.0, rendering pages dynamically and working with layouts in a non-linear way.

It's not that you can't do those things in IE, it's that IE makes you do them in a totally different way. You end up coding a lot of special cases to make things work right. Support for IE will probably come eventually, but I think Apple took this opportunity to dig at microsoft a bit and maybe help out firefox and safari. It doesn't help that sproutcore, the framework apple adopted for mobileme, codes to the standards and doesn't like IE either, but I'm sure that will change.

[clevin]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but I can't see how mobileme running on safari and firefox but not IE can be a safari problem. It mostly has to do with IEs refusal to properly implement the Document Object Model properly and it's non-ecma compliant version of javascript(microsoft calls theirs jscript). If you look at this page comparing DOM implementations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28DOM%29), trident(IEs rendering engine) Has funky support for DOM 1, minor support for DOM 2 and no support for DOM 3. DOM and javascript are key to web 2.0, rendering pages dynamically and working with layouts in a non-linear way.


well, the problem is, why IE7 is almost ok, while IE6 is not? since there is no significant differences (if ANY) of how IE handle JS and DOM between version 6 and IE7.

javascript support, IE is doing even better than safari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28ECMAScript%29

Apple helps firefox? with mobile me? I appreciate the guess. But I doubt, highly, thats what apple was thinking. Consider SJ previously intended to wipe firefox out of the market ( a nice dream too ).

[benmrii]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but I can't see how mobileme running on safari and firefox but not IE can be a safari problem. It mostly has to do with IEs refusal to properly implement the Document Object Model properly and it's non-ecma compliant version of javascript(microsoft calls theirs jscript). If you look at this page comparing DOM implementations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28DOM%29), trident(IEs rendering engine) Has funky support for DOM 1, minor support for DOM 2 and no support for DOM 3. DOM and javascript are key to web 2.0, rendering pages dynamically and working with layouts in a non-linear way.

It's not that you can't do those things in IE, it's that IE makes you do them in a totally different way. You end up coding a lot of special cases to make things work right. Support for IE will probably come eventually, but I think Apple took this opportunity to dig at microsoft a bit and maybe help out firefox and safari. It doesn't help that sproutcore, the framework apple adopted for mobileme, codes to the standards and doesn't like IE either, but I'm sure that will change.

Your point is correct but out of context. I was responding to a comment made earlier about Google's Gmail and Calendar not working on Safari, expounding on my post earlier in the thread.

[Antares]

The IT Department wont even let USB sticks to be used. I can plug it in but cannot access the drive or run any programs off it, unless I find a hidden way to do it I am not familiar with it. I was going to use portable firefox but that may be out of the question.

If you'll look at step 1 again, I stated that you don't have to install it on the USB drive. You can set the Desktop or My Documents as the install directory and that's where it'll place the folder.

Ditto. We're specifically prohibited from connecting flash drives and external drives to our computers without Department Head, VP or IT approval. We're also prohibited form installing any new software or software upgrades without the approval of IT. As for updating IE, I don't know what I would say to IT. IE6 works perfectly for every business necessary reason. Why would I "need" IE7 when everyone else in the department has no issue using IE6?

[clevin]

Ditto. We're specifically prohibited from connecting flash drives and external drives to our computers without Department Head, VP or IT approval. We're also prohibited form installing any new software or software upgrades without the approval of IT. As for updating IE, I don't know what I would say to IT. IE6 works perfectly for every business necessary reason. Why would I "need" IE7 when everyone else in the department has no issue using IE6?

well, I see your department solved the biggest problem of IE... security.. :)

well, the rules are quite rigid. see if there is any way of spoofing IE6's UA to IE7 and give it a try that way.

[MojoWill]

FF is buggy as well! i just had to open up safari instead!

[clevin]

FF is buggy as well! i just had to open up safari instead!

have you been reading the OP's problem? if not, I suggest you do so.

WAIT, OP, there is another firefox that requires no installation, you can download it from ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/firefox-3.1a1pre.en-US.win32.zip

You can run it directly from extracted folder. Is this workable?

[newappleboy]

Has my suggestion even been attempted? I'm using FF now at work, a company which only lets us use IE6 and won't let us upgrade our own computers or install software of any kind. Clevin, your solution is almost identical to mine. Either one should work. This thread has shot off in a completely different direction. *shakes head*

[ihabime]

well, the problem is, why IE7 is almost ok, while IE6 is not? since there is no significant differences (if ANY) of how IE handle JS and DOM between version 6 and IE7.

javascript support, IE is doing even better than safari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28ECMAScript%29

Apple helps firefox? with mobile me? I appreciate the guess. But I doubt, highly, thats what apple was thinking. Consider SJ previously intended to wipe firefox out of the market ( a nice dream too ).

The IE6 and 7 issues may be caused by CSS support, which sproutcore uses heavily.

I didn't mean help in an altruistic way, more of an enemy of my enemy thing. Safari's compliance is more of a subset of firefox's than IE's, so any move away from IE helps safari.

Jobs tried to kill firefox? You're not referring to that kerfuffle John Lily made over a slide from WWDC 07 are you? That always seemed like serious x-files level paranoia to me, "Steve is beaming secret messages to the faithful, look see in this one slide it's only IE and Safari, Steve wants them to kill Firefox." Not that I doubt he wouldn't want Safari to be in that position, but I seriously question whether he's a reptilian alien, the greys always seemed more like his aesthetic style :p

[BillyBobBongo]

This thread has shot off in a completely different direction. *shakes head*

They nearly always do!

*Breaks out the dancing badgers*

Look! Mushrooms!

[clevin]

Has my suggestion even been attempted? I'm using FF now at work, a company which only lets us use IE6 and won't let us upgrade our own computers or install software of any kind. Clevin, your solution is almost identical to mine. Either one should work. This thread has shot off in a completely different direction. *shakes head*

yes, actually what you said is quite identical as mine. OP should try out.

Jobs tried to kill firefox? You're not referring to that kerfuffle John Lily made over a slide from WWDC 07 are you?

sorry, I agree with what Jon Lily said because I intelligently looked at the substance and came to same conclusion as John.

I don't agree with something just because somebody said it, I agree with it because thats most likely true with the facts I have and logical reasoning.

The fact is there, what other explanation did you come up with?

Enemy's enemy thing, yeah, I agree, I would like Apple to do so in a healthy manner. Not using misleading ads and forced push method. I take reputation seriously, if apple wants to lose on this, I would rather firefox stay away from it. Firefox is rising on the reputation, and doesn't have the advantages of pre-installation as IE or safari, it better stays smart and careful.

PS. about CSS thing, yes, there is differences between IE6 and IE7, but they are both bad, so If IE7 works, it shouldn't be difficult to do the same in IE6.

[ihabime]

Has my suggestion even been attempted? I'm using FF now at work, a company which only lets us use IE6 and won't let us upgrade our own computers or install software of any kind. Clevin, your solution is almost identical to mine. Either one should work. This thread has shot off in a completely different direction. *shakes head*

Yeah, that's probably my fault, sorry.

As to the OPs problem, You can change IE6s User Agent, but it requires a registry edit, so it's probably prohibited too.


The fact is there, what other explanation did you come up with?
I just rewatched it to check my memory, it really is just a 1 second slide transition, hardly a declaration of war. I think it's more an example of Jobs ego, he doesn't see firefox at all, it's not a threat to him, windows and IE is. Notice how in the comparisons he makes a big point of comparing Safari to IE and then mentions firefox almost as an afterthought. Not that I agree with him, but it's just Jobs being Jobs. He may be good at keeping Apple alive, but the man has an ego bigger than the moon. As an example, a couple minutes later he introduces the original 'iPhone web SDK', who else could say that straight faced and actually believe it?

btw, I didn't mean to insult you with the x-files thing, it really was just a joke, but I'm gonna stop now , because I don't want this to get further derailed and end up in the wasteland, the OP has a real problem that Apple should fix.

[dejo]

Seems to me that since your employer has your computer pretty locked down and you have no real business reason to access your MobileMe at work, you're SOL.

[danredwing]

I haven't tried the firefox thing yet, but night this evening before heading home. Hopefully that will help and be a workable solution. I still feel frustrated that I have to come up with some strange workaround though.

The way that I look at it, it is not truly "accessible from the web" if it is only for specific browsers. Kind of reminds me Steve Jobs saying that the iphone delivers the real internet. At this point, flash is pretty standard and there are significant websites that are not viewable with the iphone. Nike.com is a great example. To my mind, this is not truly the "real internet" and Mobileme as it stands is not accessible from the real internet.

Interestingly, you can't even see the Mobilme login page from the iphone. Different reason, but I hate being redirected away from it because they assume that I won't want to look at it.

dejo, to assume that I don't have business checking my .mac (me) account from work is presumptuous. My company chooses to not allow mobile drives or PDA type devices for security reasons but many of my colleagues use Blackberries, Pocket PCs and other such devices for contact and calendar management. I actually am more interested in the mobilme calendar and contacts than the email and was pretty excited at the prospect of being able to keep a digital copy on my desktop and have changes pushed to my phone.
I also use my .mac/ me account to keep in touch with my staff when I'm out of the office on calls throughout the day.

it would be cool if my company had enterprise set up and provided this stuff to us, but banks are notorious for not doing this.

dan

[dejo]

dejo, to assume that I don't have business checking my .mac (me) account from work is presumptuous. ...
I also use my .mac/ me account to keep in touch with my staff when I'm out of the office on calls throughout the day.
Well, then, sounds like you do have a real business reason to want access to MobileMe at/during work. Now, you just need to justify to IT why they should make a change in that regard. A good cost-benefit analysis should help support your request. :)