Q for developers outside of US

[TripleJ]

Hey again! Hoping one of the overseas dev's can help me out with this.

I realise that the main dealings of apple probably happen in the US, but in the itunes connect when you first set up your paid contract, one of the questions asks you for an american tax number and specifies a link to the IRS if you haven't got one. Is this a requirement and if not, are there disadvantages to not having one, when I'm based in AUS??

Thanks :)

[darkpaw]

If you don't have an EIN or ITIN, the American tax people will withhold 30% of the money paid to you by Apple. If you have such a number, they will, in the case of Australia, only withhold 5%.

I had to call the IRS office in America and get mine sorted out - it really was the quickest way. The UK's treaty with America means America won't withhold anything to the UK, but for Australia it's 5%, sorry. Still, 5% less is better than 30% less, no?

My advice, get your tax id number sorted out.

[TripleJ]

Thank you, that answers my question perfectly :). Much Appreciated!

[TripleJ]

Just out of curiosity, which number did you call through to get the EIN and did they provide you with one over the phone?

Thanks again :)

[DipDog3]

Just out of curiosity, which number did you call through to get the EIN and did they provide you with one over the phone?

Thanks again :)

EIN Online (https://sa.www4.irs.gov/modiein/individual/index.jsp)

[TripleJ]

EIN Online (https://sa.www4.irs.gov/modiein/individual/index.jsp)


Thank you but this only works if you are within the US already :)

Foreign filers without an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) cannot use this assistant to obtain an EIN.

[Mac Me Up]

I am Australian Developer, and have done all the tax stuff. You need to
- Register for an ABN Number for Australia (free if you do it as a sole trader)
- Register for GST (again free)
- Call the US and get an EIN (free except for the phone call)

Once you have all that you can fill out the last section of the tax info stuff in iTunes connect. In the tips PDF that apple supply with the form there is the number for external people dialling the US. Simply add 0011 1 to the front of it. You can only call during US business hours. (I'd find it for you now, but my internet has been shaped for the next few days, so it would take an eternity to download)

When you've done that you submit the form. Shortly afterwards apple will email you a filled out copy, that you need to sign and mail back to them.

I should note that if you want to charge for your apps, and don't want to be taxed at 30% (on top of the 30% that Apple already takes), then yes, this is Mandatory. Also you cannot sell to Australia unless you are registered with an ABN and for GST. If you just want to give your stuff away then no, you don't need to do any of this.

Finally you need to submit a copy of your GST and ABN Number registration through the main page of iTunes connect, down the bottom.

[DipDog3]

Thank you but this only works if you are within the US already :)

Sorry, I thought you were in the US...

[TripleJ]

Finally you need to submit a copy of your GST and ABN Number registration through the main page of iTunes connect, down the bottom.

Thank you very much. I finally managed to call them last night (thanks to the 12 hr time difference :P) and get an EIN (after my mobile cut out halfway through the process the first time :P). Going to post the signed contract today.

I've already registered and recieved an ABN but it won't be valid until 01/09/08 and as far as i understand, the GST can't kick in until at the earliest the day after that. Do i need to do an actual printscreen of from the ABN registry and submit that to apple or can i settle for the 'congratulations, here's your ABN and your GST is being reviewed' notice? Also, is the GST an actual number as well or will they just say 'yup, you're now registered'?


Also, Thank you dipdog3 for your help, much appreciated! :)

[Mac Me Up]

Do i need to do an actual printscreen of from the ABN registry and submit that to apple or can i settle for the 'congratulations, here's your ABN and your GST is being reviewed' notice? Also, is the GST an actual number as well or will they just say 'yup, you're now registered'?

Good question. I zipped up the final application HTML page that the ATO give you, with your entire application on it. Mine hasn't yet been approved, so I can't really say if that's the what they want or not. GST is not a seperate number, that's just linked to your ABN as a yes/no thing. Just remember if you earn over $AUD75,000 from the app store in one financial year you'll have to pay GST....he he I wish! ;)

Keep me in the loop as to how you go. I applied about 5 days ago, and both my normal and paid contracts are still at 'setup in progress'. I've submitted an App as well and that's still 'In Review'.

[TripleJ]

Good question. I zipped up the final application HTML page that the ATO give you, with your entire application on it. Mine hasn't yet been approved, so I can't really say if that's the what they want or not. GST is not a seperate number, that's just linked to your ABN as a yes/no thing. Just remember if you earn over $AUD75,000 from the app store in one financial year you'll have to pay GST....he he I wish! ;)

Keep me in the loop as to how you go. I applied about 5 days ago, and both my normal and paid contracts are still at 'setup in progress'. I've submitted an App as well and that's still 'In Review'.

My ABN doesn't actually kick in until the 01/09 so while I've been issued one it's not valid yet, but as far as I understand, you have 30 days from you first request your contract to submit it to apple so I should be ok. I just mailed in my signed contract today so I'm guessing a week before they recieve it all the way from Australia, then another week or two to get set up. Even my free contract is still saying 'Setup In Process'. I've got an application 'in review' as well and it's been like that for about 4 days, but I think they won't look at it until the contracts go through. Will keep you updated on what happens though and hoping you'll do the same! It's interesting to read peoples experiences, i think! Thank you for your help so far!

[mrsbunnyw]

:confused: Sorry - it's late and I"m probably missing something but I am in the UK and need to register to avoid paying US tax. But I am floundering about here! Please could someone tell me where to start?

I understand that I have to tick a box or something to tell Apple about this. Is that something which I do when I submit my app (not yet completed)?

I see from earlier posts that I need some sort of reference number, which I can get from the IRS. But the acronyms are confusing me - can anyone tell me what I need, and also can I just ask for one, or do I have to fill out forms, supply evidence etc to get one?

Does anyone know how long this all takes, and whether the number expires after a set time? Am I better to apply for it now, so that it doesn't hold my app up, or to wait until the app is ready (probably a couple of weeks) so that it is still valid?

Thanks in advance and sorry for sounding so clueless! :o
mrsbunnyw

[Mac Me Up]

I understand that I have to tick a box or something to tell Apple about this. Is that something which I do when I submit my app (not yet completed)?

Does anyone know how long this all takes, and whether the number expires after a set time? Am I better to apply for it now, so that it doesn't hold my app up, or to wait until the app is ready (probably a couple of weeks) so that it is still valid?

Go to the contracts section of iTunes Connect and it's the tax section of the payed contract. An EIN is an Employer Identification Number, you probably have something similar in the UK. As far as I know it doesn't expire. Apple gives you plenty of links to help PDFs on how to fill out these forms, so follow those.

You should organise all that as soon as you can, because from what I see it takes about a week to approve an app, but 3 weeks or more to process all the forms. ;)

[TripleJ]

:confused: Sorry - it's late and I"m probably missing something but I am in the UK and need to register to avoid paying US tax. But I am floundering about here! Please could someone tell me where to start?

I understand that I have to tick a box or something to tell Apple about this. Is that something which I do when I submit my app (not yet completed)?

I see from earlier posts that I need some sort of reference number, which I can get from the IRS. But the acronyms are confusing me - can anyone tell me what I need, and also can I just ask for one, or do I have to fill out forms, supply evidence etc to get one?

Does anyone know how long this all takes, and whether the number expires after a set time? Am I better to apply for it now, so that it doesn't hold my app up, or to wait until the app is ready (probably a couple of weeks) so that it is still valid?

Thanks in advance and sorry for sounding so clueless! :o
mrsbunnyw

If you dont factor in the 20 or so minutes you'll be on hold when you call the IRS to get your EIN it only takes about 10 minutes and you'll get the number on the phone. I found it helpful to have the digital copy of the SS4 form that apple gives you and fill it out on your computer so that when they ask you on the phone it's a bit easier. Also, if the IRS people ask what form you need your EIN for it's a 'w8ben'. The number doesn't expire as far as i know. I think it sticks with you (for us tax purposes) for the rest of your life. I'd say get it as soon as possible :)

[Mac Me Up]

Well my app just got approved! I submitted it on the 7th and today is the 13th. :D

My contracts are still not approved though, so my apps status is now 'Pending Contract'.

[TripleJ]

Well my app just got approved! I submitted it on the 7th and today is the 13th. :D

My contracts are still not approved though, so my apps status is now 'Pending Contract'.

Haha. I was just about to make the EXACT same post :p

My application is now approved ('ready for sale') but says pending contract in itunes connect. I'm guessing at least another week since i didn't mail mine until last saturday :S.. Hey, at least the application got approved! I'm excited!

We seem to be on almost the same timeframe MMU.

[Mac Me Up]

Ha that's funny. Even funnier if we built the same kind of app :p

Well I think that's given me confidence to go and build the more detailed app I've been planning for a while, I was just holding off to see how this all panned out, but it looks like getting onto the app store is not going to be a problem once the contracts are approved.

[TripleJ]

Ha that's funny. Even funnier if we built the same kind of app :p

Well I think that's given me confidence to go and build the more detailed app I've been planning for a while, I was just holding off to see how this all panned out, but it looks like getting onto the app store is not going to be a problem once the contracts are approved.

Same app? I doubt it, but I suppose you never know!
I'm going to be hard at work on an update for the approved app now that it will (assuming the contract goes through) actually be sold, as well as a sort of tie-in program to the other one. I hope the contract kicks in sooner rather than later! By the way, when you submitted your ABN information did you get any kind of confirmation screen at all? I hit submit and all it did was return to the main itunes connect screen, and I'm not sure if I should submit again or if it's received already.

[Mac Me Up]

I'm not sure if I should submit again or if it's received already.

I got no notification at all. It just kicked me back to the main screen as well. I figure if it's not approved by next week I might make some enquiries. I'm not bothered at the moment because it looks like the typical contract wait time is 3 weeks.

[TripleJ]

I got no notification at all. It just kicked me back to the main screen as well. I figure if it's not approved by next week I might make some enquiries. I'm not bothered at the moment because it looks like the typical contract wait time is 3 weeks.

Yeah, i suppose there's nothing to do but wait and see. If you do contact them, please let me know how it goes!

[Mac Me Up]

let me know how it goes!

My free contract just got approved! Now it's just the paid one left. I had an idea for a funny free app, so I might go ahead and code it up just for a laugh...:p

[TripleJ]

My free contract just got approved! Now it's just the paid one left. I had an idea for a funny free app, so I might go ahead and code it up just for a laugh...:p

Haha. After reading this i rushed to itunesconnect to check and lo and behold, my free contract has been approved as well. In spite of what i previously thought, it seems like they are actually reviewing things in order and that we both applied pretty much simultaneously. Here's to hoping the paid contract kicks in soon too! ;):D

[Taum]

Hi,

If you don't have an EIN or ITIN, the American tax people will withhold 30% of the money paid to you by Apple. If you have such a number, they will, in the case of Australia, only withhold 5%.

I had to call the IRS office in America and get mine sorted out - it really was the quickest way. The UK's treaty with America means America won't withhold anything to the UK, but for Australia it's 5%, sorry. Still, 5% less is better than 30% less, no?

My advice, get your tax id number sorted out.

I tried to get my EIN over the phone 2 weeks ago, but it didn't work (probably my fault for not understanding exactly what they wanted me to do, since I'm not a native speaker of English and it's not easy to do these things over the phone). Anyhow, I was wondering if it's still possible to get Apple to sell my apps with the 30% withholding rate even though I'm entitled to a 0% rate ? (since now I've moved to yet another country and it's getting really complicated but whatever)

[TripleJ]

Hi,



I tried to get my EIN over the phone 2 weeks ago, but it didn't work (probably my fault for not understanding exactly what they wanted me to do, since I'm not a native speaker of English and it's not easy to do these things over the phone). Anyhow, I was wondering if it's still possible to get Apple to sell my apps with the 30% withholding rate even though I'm entitled to a 0% rate ? (since now I've moved to yet another country and it's getting really complicated but whatever)

I'd suggest calling the IRS again and telling them that your english is not that good and they will try to help you get an EIN. If you don't want to get an EIN, just submit the tax information on the itunes connect page without putting an EIN and apple will take care of the rest, but this means that for every dollar you earn, apple will take 30% and then the US government will take ANOTHER 30% which leaves you with only 40% of revenue.
It's worth getting an EIN.

[RossOliver]

I just finished my tax information and got an email with:


IMPORTANT: Please make sure to sign and mail the forms to Apple as per the instructions. All information must be provided in order to complete processing. By submitting this form you may be eligible for a lower withholding rate as a result of applicable tax treaties.


Does that mean I have to physically print, sign and mail it to them?

-Ross

[TripleJ]

I just finished my tax information and got an email with:



Does that mean I have to physically print, sign and mail it to them?

-Ross

Yup.. Apple needs your signature, so you have to physically print, sign and mail the contract AND the provided coversheet to them :)

[RossOliver]

Yup.. Apple needs your signature, so you have to physically print, sign and mail the contract AND the provided coversheet to them :)

Ah, this is a tedious process :rolleyes:

So I've finished my contracts section and everything has a green tick apart from 'setup complete' - do I need to do something to get that ticked or does that happen when apple validate it all?

Cheers,

-Ross

[Mac Me Up]

yee ha! All my contracts are approved and my app is in the store!

To answer your question once you have green ticks in all but the last column then it's up to apple. It will take a few weeks.

[TripleJ]

yee ha! All my contracts are approved and my app is in the store!

To answer your question once you have green ticks in all but the last column then it's up to apple. It will take a few weeks.

Congratulations! Mine still isn't approved :( Do you remember how long ago you sent your contract in?

[Mac Me Up]

Congratulations! Mine still isn't approved :( Do you remember how long ago you sent your contract in?

I think I mailed it about 2 weeks ago, and filled it all in a few days before that...I'd celebrate my win, but my first app is more just of a test, so I doubt it will even make a splash in the ocean that is the app store. I'm working on something good though, so hopefully I find enough time to finish that off and submit it.

[Taum]

Yup.. Apple needs your signature, so you have to physically print, sign and mail the contract AND the provided coversheet to them :)

Is this for *both* paid and free contracts or paid contract only ?

I just received my EIN by mail, so apparently it did work :o
I think I now have everything I need to send the contracts back to Apple, and start really working on my apps :)

[TripleJ]

Is this for *both* paid and free contracts or paid contract only ?

I just received my EIN by mail, so apparently it did work :o
I think I now have everything I need to send the contracts back to Apple, and start really working on my apps :)

The free one doesn't need the contract. it should get approved automatically, sooner or later :) (At the rate things are going, probably later :P)

[TripleJ]

My contract got approved last night (took 11 days from me sending it) and my application is now on itunes :) (link) (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=287658020&mt=8)
Thanks for all the help!

[Mac Me Up]

My contract got approved last night (took 11 days from me sending it) and my application is now on itunes :) (link) (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=287658020&mt=8)
Thanks for all the help!

Nice! And can I say I like your design! I guess that's why you said there's not much chance of us working on the same kind of app...he he Japanese is not my forte...

Just out of interest, can you see daily stats in iTunes connect? There's meant to be an icon above your contract icon, but I don't have it. Would love to know if you do.

I'm to embarrased to point to my first app, because it's one of those that there is already a million of anyway. When I finish my new one in the next couple of weeks I'll let you know - it is one that I will be proud of :D

Edit: I forgot to say, I got an email from iTunes saying that the ABN forms I sent were wrong(I zipped up my HTML confirmation from the ATO), so I've scanned my ABN registration paper instead and sent that in. No response yet.

[TripleJ]

Nice! And can I say I like your design! I guess that's why you said there's not much chance of us working on the same kind of app...he he Japanese is not my forte...


Thank you! There's a huge update on the way, but it's being reviewed by apple atm. Hoping to add the second Japanese alphabet as well during the next week or so. I'm surprised Apple never sent me an email to let me know that the contract was approved! I don't have the daily stats in itunes connect either, but I'd say give it a week from the day your application launched in the store. Let me know if yours suddenly appears please!

I haven't heard from apple about my ABN even though I sent them a document that said my abn doesn't work until the 1st of next month :S we'll see what happens..

Oh and please send the link to your app. I figure just the fact that you've got an app in the store at all is impressive enough. I'd love to see

[Mac Me Up]

Ok, I'll post the link, but so long as you know that I did this just as a quick thing for my son, who loves it. Also it looks pretty poor...that's why for my next app I've got a friend on board who is a designer, and I'm also getting much more ambitious functionality wise.

Ok final caveat...please don't laugh too hard at it...:p:
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=287657749&mt=8

[TripleJ]

Ok, I'll post the link, but so long as you know that I did this just as a quick thing for my son, who loves it. Also it looks pretty poor...that's why for my next app I've got a friend on board who is a designer, and I'm also getting much more ambitious functionality wise.

Ok final caveat...please don't laugh too hard at it...:p:
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=287657749&mt=8

Seems nice! I like the company name :D Thanks for showing :) I'm in the opposite boat, actually. I'm a designer, but only learning to code now, for the first time, so i can do things for the iphone. so far it's confusing the frig out of me, but it's going forwards slowly.

On a sidenote, I'm actually trying to add sound to my app and while I can figure it out with just a single soundfile that plays when i press a button! Once I try to add two buttons, I can't figure it out. Would you mind if i sent you my code and asked for your help? If you're alright with that, please PM me with your email and I'll send it over this evening :)

[mtgred]

If I understood well, EIN is for companies. Can an individual get an EIN as well or should individuals go for ITIN ?

Apparently for ITIN the IRS requires copies of personal ID to be sent via snail mail which takes significantly longer than just a phone call. Is there a way to obtain an ITIN by just calling the IRS as it is the case for EIN ?

[indiekiduk]

Guys, if you are in the UK you don't need an EIN, just enter nine zeros:

Some new information has came to light which makes it easier for UK developers to fill in the W8-BEN form:

Since the App Store contracts are characterized as a "sales/commission" agreement, as opposed to a "royalty" agreement, there will be no tax withholding in the United States. Therefore, we would still like you to complete the W8BEN form, however, you are not required to obtain a new US Taxpayer Identification Number if you do not already have one.

Please enter nine zeros (000000000) in the space provided in section 6. In addition, payments from the USA App Store will not be reported to the IRS on form 1042 at year end.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.

source: http://www.iphonedevsdk.com/forum/iphone-sdk-development/2475-uk-developers-applying-ein.html