No free download for new iPhoto?

[DVDSP]

OK what I got out of the Keynote (among other things) is that if I want the new iPhoto 4 (what happened to 3?) I have to buy iLife '04. I realize that $49 for 5 apps such as these is a great price but:

1) I already have iTunes 4.2 (which I expect will remain a free download for a long time)

2) I paid for Final Cut Express and DVD Studio Pro so I don't need iMovie or iDVD

3) Garage Band looks cool and I'm sure I could put it to use but I think I SoundTrack is more my speed.

4) Really, I only want iPhoto (mostly for Rendezvous sharing)

I can't find anywhere on the website where it says "Download iPhoto" or any mention of it being a free download on the 16th.

Is that what everyone else sees or am I missing something?

Also, could Rendezvous sharing in iPhoto help boost the iBox rumor? Hmm...

[ZildjianKX]

Unfortunately, you'll have to pay $49 for it... bummer. I didn't know until recently that iApps weren't free... kinda sucks. I personally think they should have been bundled with Panther.

[tjwett]

just thinking the same thing. i launched Software Update expecting to see it. went to the Apple site but no download, what's the deal here?

[DVDSP]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
I didn't know until recently that iApps weren't free... kinda sucks.

The iApps WERE free! You could download all the iApps free except for iDVD. For iDVD you had to buy iLife for $49. The excuse was that iDVD was too large a download.

I don't even really mind paying for iPhoto but to charge me for 5 apps when I only want one is annoying. I say put it on the Up-to-Date program and charge me $20 if you have to, I'll still be annoyed but less so. I just don't want to be clutering up my HD with apps I don't want.

Originally posted by tjwett
just thinking the same thing. i launched Software Update expecting to see it. went to the Apple site but no download, what's the deal here?

Funny, I was doing the same thing periodically through the Keynote waiting to see if Software Update showed anything new. Glad I'm not the only one. :)

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by DVDSP
The iApps WERE free! You could download all the iApps free except for iDVD. For iDVD you had to buy iLife for $49. The excuse was that iDVD was too large a download.

I don't even really mind paying for iPhoto but to charge me for 5 apps when I only want one is annoying. I say put it on the Up-to-Date program and charge me $20 if you have to, I'll still be annoyed but less so. I just don't want to be clutering up my HD with apps I don't want.



Funny, I was doing the same thing periodically through the Keynote waiting to see if Software Update showed anything new. Glad I'm not the only one. :)

Ahh, that's right, it was iDVD that wasn't, I thought so!!! So now you have to pay for them all except iTunes...

I was actually checking my software update for iPhoto the entire time. Kind of a weak keynote...

[cleo]

i just bought a new ibook last friday, and i expected that i'd get a free or discounted ilife upgrade, as happens when you buy a mac just before a new release of the os... but no such luck. just called the apple store and they said i'd have to pay the $50... screw it. iphoto 2 works just fine on a g4.

they're not getting my money for ilife... they should either offer individual apps at a discounted price or make the upgrades free.

...off to grab itunes 4.2 before they snatch that away, too!

edit: seems my ibook came with itunes 4.2. nothing to download on keynote day... wah.

[ZildjianKX]

Garageband is HUGE though, just got done looking at the specs for it the install no their website... they still could offer iPhoto for free though...

[King Cobra]

iTunes should be a free download: 10MB or so
iMovie should be free (iMovie 3 was, with an 81.8MB download)
iPhoto should be free (iPhoto 4 is, I'm guessing, 50MB or so? Big deal.)

The rest I understand...I think Apple just wants to get their webpages updated for downloads. Ever notice for the past couple of weeks on the Safari (www.apple.com/safari) page that there is no download link to Safari, even though there is a download link (www.apple.com/safari/download/) (I'll admit, for 10.2, in this case)?

(Hell, I only even care to use iTunes...and iPhoto once in a while)

[ftaok]

I understand why they are charging for iLife, but I still don't like it.

I have a 500mhz iBook and it works decently with Jag. The thing is, iMovie3 and iPhoto2 have always been dog-slow and these updates should be free. They won't charge for iTunes because it's tied into the iTMS, so I'm OK there. iDVD and Garage are things I don't need.

So I have to figure out if iPhoto and iMovie are worth $50. The features in iPhoto sound so good, that I might just pull the trigger.

I wonder how fast it would be on a 500mhz iBook?

[ftaok]

Originally posted by King Cobra
iTunes should be a free download: 10MB or so
iMovie should be free (iMovie 3 was, with an 81.8MB download)
iPhoto should be free (iPhoto 4 is, I'm guessing, 50MB or so? Big deal.)

The rest I understand...I think Apple just wants to get their webpages updated for downloads. Ever notice for the past couple of weeks on the Safari[/ul] page that there is no download link to Safari, even though there is a [url=www.apple.com/safari/download/]download link (www.apple.com/safari) (I'll admit, for 10.2, in this case)? King,

Are you saying that you think iMovie and iPhoto will be free, or that they should be free?

[DVDSP]

Originally posted by King Cobra
The rest I understand...I think Apple just wants to get their webpages updated for downloads.

Yeah, I completely understand if they feel they need to charge for a large app like iDVD or Garage Band, but the changes in iPhoto don't seem so huge that it should be charged for now.

I too am hoping that the web pages will be updated to show downloads on the 16th, but Steve didn't mention it at all in the Keynote.

I wonder if John Mayer will get it for free...:).

[StuPid QPid]

Didn't Steve sy that iLife 04 would be released on Jan 16th?
I guess we'll have to wait until then to see if any updates are available over the internet...

[ftaok]

Originally posted by StuPid QPid
Didn't Steve sy that iLife 04 would be released on Jan 16th?
I guess we'll have to wait until then to see if any updates are available over the internet... In past keynotes, Steve had always mentioned that downloads would be free, even if we had to wait a week or two.

I can recall two such times where this has happened. The first was with iPhoto and the second was iMovie (3, i think).

My guess is that downloads will not be available.

Maybe they will allow users to download individual apps for a fee. That will lend credence to the "Apple will sell software online" rumors from a few weeks back.

[Mantat]

Why do you always expect everything to be free?

These software cost money to make and the money must come from somewhere! If you buy a new mac, it will come pre installed and will be included in the computer price. If you have an older machine, they have no way to get money out of you for it so they have to sell it. Its simple! It sucks but its life. I dont know many developpers who are willing to work for free, and would you?

On the other hand, I agree: they should offer separate download at a small cost so you only get what you need. But in that case you might have compatibility issues.

[ftaok]

Originally posted by Mantat
Why do you always expect everything to be free?

snip

On the other hand, I agree: they should offer separate download at a small cost so you only get what you need. But in that case you might have compatibility issues. I don't think people are complaining that they have to pay (for the most part), rather, they are complaining that they have to pay for stuff they don't need/want/use/etc. By packaging a product that has varying requirements, Apple is alienating a large user base. Not everyone has a SuperDrive or a G4 or even a speedy G3. I happen to fall in that group (500mhz iBook Combo). The only apps that I can use are iPhoto, iMovie, and iTunes (and iTunes is free).

Let me purchase iPhoto and iMovie separately and everyone's happy. I'm very willing to pay for software that I can use, but if Apple is bundling software together, they should also offer it a la carte.

[bousozoku]

It's likely that you won't be able to download GarageBand or iDVD4 but that everything else will still be a free download, starting on the 16th.

I think they're being very careful about using the word "free" anymore. It's given them so much backlash in the recent past.

[5300cs]

I'll be pretty pissed if I'm going to have to pay for it. Making people pay for iTunes is pretty lame, if you ask me.

On the other hand, Apple has upped the ante by including Garageband, and if iPhoto is as fast as they claim (the version now is unbearably slow) then maybe I won't be too pissed ;) $50 ain't that bad I guess ...

[szark]

Originally posted by bousozoku
It's likely that you won't be able to download GarageBand or iDVD4 but that everything else will still be a free download, starting on the 16th.

I think they're being very careful about using the word "free" anymore. It's given them so much backlash in the recent past.


Unfortunately, I think the existence of an iLife '04 Family Pack (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9466Z/A) indicates there will be no free downloads.

[dukemeiser]

Originally posted by cleo
i just bought a new ibook last friday

That is just bad timing on your part. If you are ever considering a new Mac, wait until AFTER a keynote to get it. Any new products will then be available. Not to mention a new iBook might have been announced.

I waited until after a keynote to buy my iBook. And I got Jaguar free for waiting.

[5300cs]

Originally posted by cleo
... they should either offer individual apps at a discounted price or make the upgrades free...

Well, if it's 5 apps for $50, you're paying $10 per app. How much cheaper do you want them? Or do you want them available seperately as not as a bundle?

As my friend said once: "Apple is a software company. They make software. They then charge people for said software." This was in response to a wintel genius who said it was idiotic to have to pay for Jaguar & Panther, that the windows service packs have always been free :rolleyes:

[Spock]

I don't care I have a dial up connection and cannot download very fast at all I am connected at 32.4 right know I downloaded iMavie 3 last year it took all night and then when I woke up ready to play with this new app I could not becous my display is not capable to run at 120*768 lets face it Apple cannot afford to put all this money into making iLife to allow people to download free.

[latergator116]

Originally posted by dukemeiser
That is just bad timing on your part. If you are ever considering a new Mac, wait until AFTER a keynote to get it. Any new products will then be available. Not to mention a new iBook might have been announced.

I waited until after a keynote to buy my iBook. And I got Jaguar free for waiting.

I don't think anyone was expecting a new iBook since they were updated fairly recently so I can't really blame her. They do offer a program where you can get iLife for 20 bucks if you buy a new mac after Jan. 6. I think that is a little sleazy though.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by 5300cs
Well, if it's 5 apps for $50, you're paying $10 per app. How much cheaper do you want them? Or do you want them available seperately as not as a bundle?

yeah, that's what i want - if they can't be free, at least make them available individually. $10 for iphoto (the only one I want) is fine. $50 for iphoto is not.

[robotrenegade]

Being that this release is so close to panther release kinda make us all mad as well. iLife should of come with panther!

[Rower_CPU]

I don't want to spoil people's bitch-fests here, but do we have any sort of confirmation from Apple about the non-availability of iPhoto and/or iMovie as a download?

All I've seen is a lot of conjecture and no definitive statement from Apple...

[QCassidy352]

well, that's a good point Rower. I guess we are going on two things: 1) that Jobs didn't mention free downloads in the speech, while he has in the past. 2) that cnet reported that downloads will no longer be free.

So yes, there could have been a whole lot of complaining for nothing. But it certainly seems that downloads will not be free anymore.

[Rower_CPU]

CNET also "reported" a while back that Apple wasn't going to release any further security updates for Jaguar once Panther was released. And Jobs not mentioning something in the keynote isn't solid enough for me.

I'm waiting until the 16th and/or a definitive statement from Apple.

[evilbert420]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this or the other iLife threads is this possibility:

What is the chance that iDVD4/iMovie4/iPhoto4/GarageBand don't play well with iDVD3/iMovie3/iPhoto2?

Maybe it's an integration/inter-operability issue?

[mnkeybsness]

everyone needs to remember that apple is primarily a software company... always has and always will be. that said, they, just like every other software company makes money by selling software. hence... apple needs to sell the iLife package to keep making money.

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
everyone needs to remember that apple is primarily a software company... always has and always will be. that said, they, just like every other software company makes money by selling software. hence... apple needs to sell the iLife package to keep making money.

Umm, I was pretty sure they were primarily a hardware company and need to keep hardware selling to stay in business... they hardly make any software... and I don't see any product activation on their software like a software companies usually do... since you already bought the hardware... where they make almost all of their revenues.

[MacBandit]

Has everyone forgot that iMovie 2.0 was $50 by itself?

[LoopHoles]

Well, I'll just have to leave my opinion here…

$49 - manage your photos, make home movies, make home DVDs, record music at home. it's a ********** bargain. that's $12 per app. Not counting iTunes at all — why would they charge you to buy from their music store?. Garage Band comes on a DVD (lots of files like iDVD), so it'd never be a download.

I do see the point of making the apps available separately, maybe $20/each, but iLife is way more of a marketing strategy than a product and they want you to get and use the whole thing, experience the integration.

One more note for those of you who whine about not having the apps available for download. 50 MB (let's say iPhoto) x 1 million downloads in 3 months = 50 TB; yes, 50 terabytes, of bandwidth. Multiply that by ~$500 per terabyte (maybe too much?). Do you really think $25K/quarter in subsidized downloads is cheap? That's a quarter of some engineer's salary. I'm not even sure it's a tax write off. That's not counting iMovie, either.

come on!

[junior]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
everyone needs to remember that apple is primarily a software company... always has and always will be. that said, they, just like every other software company makes money by selling software. hence... apple needs to sell the iLife package to keep making money.



As ZildjianKX pointed out, Apple is primarily a hardware company. If their software sales stopped, they porbably will survive. If their hardware sales stopped, they'd be dead. Their software development is funded by hardware sales.

[Chip NoVaMac]

My gripe about the iLife 04 is the limited window for the upgrade. I would be willing to pay the $20 for my Xmas PB. But since that was before 1/6/04, I am out of luck.

Even Adobe and Microsoft have better policies than what Apple has done this time.

It is about having respect for your customer base.

[jayscheuerle]

Heck, I was just happy these things were able to run on Jaguar.

$50 isn't ridiculous for the iLife suite.

$250 for the mini iPod? That's ridiculous.

[5300cs]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Heck, I was just happy these things were able to run on Jaguar.

$50 isn't ridiculous for the iLife suite.

$250 for the mini iPod? That's ridiculous.

Mmmm, we mustn't forget our Jaguar bretheren.


4gig for $250
or
15gig for $300

Who the hell came up with that pricing scheme???

[big]

iPhoto, like 10.2, should have been free, especially since the previous version sucked so badly.

there's only so much a person can handle, then they break down and pay for the software that works.

Apple needs to make a little more right now, I understand that, so do I, though the software they realease seems to just not be up to Apple's speed... and when they do come up with a fix for that, or a fix for this, the charge for it.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by big
iPhoto, like 10.2, should have been free, especially since the previous version sucked so badly.

A good sign to wait for the reviews of the new one to pour in before shelling out your $50...

[Squire]

First of all, it's good to see that this is a little milder than the 11-page mess I read through earlier.

Lots of good points. From my perspective, though, I'm so pumped about GarageBand that 50 bucks seems like nothing.

That's my point of view. If I were:

a) not interested in making music
b) a person who had just bought a machine recently
c) a person who had just bought Panther

or, finally,

d) a person who also had their free Mail and Homepages taken away...

I'd be a bit sour. Luckily, I'm not in that group but I can sympathize.

Squire

[rdowns]

I think Apple (if iPhoto and iMovie will no longer be offered free) should offer an iLife Lite package with those 2 apps for $25.

I'll probably buy iLife but only have a CD burner on my desktop and a Combo drive on my iBook. Means I can't use all the apps.

I intend on buying a new desktop as soon as a G5 iMac comes out and I'll pay for the apps a second time that way.

I have no problem with Apple charging for software but this is a ill thought out bundle.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by rdowns
I think Apple (if iPhoto and iMovie will no longer be offered free) should offer an iLife Lite package with those 2 apps for $25.

I'll probably buy iLife but only have a CD burner on my desktop and a Combo drive on my iBook. Means I can't use all the apps.

I intend on buying a new desktop as soon as a G5 iMac comes out and I'll pay for the apps a second time that way.

I have no problem with Apple charging for software but this is a ill thought out bundle.

If you know anyone that is a college student you can just mention there name and get it at the Edu price of $29.

[nuckinfutz]

Originally posted by Chip NoVaMac
My gripe about the iLife 04 is the limited window for the upgrade. I would be willing to pay the $20 for my Xmas PB. But since that was before 1/6/04, I am out of luck.

Even Adobe and Microsoft have better policies than what Apple has done this time.

It is about having respect for your customer base.

What would you have apple do? They could move the date back to enable you the upgrade price but then the people who purchased a week before you would not get it and feel jilted. Respect has nothing to do with it. This is business you bought the powerbook with no guarantees that anything else was coming in the package other than the agreed upon warranty/Tech Support.

Like everything in life sometimes you're ahead of the curve...sometimes you're behind.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
What would you have apple do? They could move the date back to enable you the upgrade price but then the people who purchased a week before you would not get it and feel jilted. Respect has nothing to do with it. This is business you bought the powerbook with no guarantees that anything else was coming in the package other than the agreed upon warranty/Tech Support.

Like everything in life sometimes you're ahead of the curve...sometimes you're behind.

True.

Your options are:

1) Suck it up and buy the damn thing. It's how supply and demand works. It's worth what you have to pay for it.

2) Screw it. Don't buy it. Don't touch it. Make a statement. Possibly lose out. Whatever...

3) Hit Limewire, Acquisition... steal it... live with the karma... own it... illegally... who cares?...! your call.............

We live in a strange time of fluctuating, but morally accounted for, acts or reason (or treason!?). Big picture?! Small picture.? We're defined by what we do. Not by what we say.

Or post.

;)

:cool:

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
True.

Your options are:

1) Suck it up and buy the damn thing. It's how supply and demand works. It's worth what you have to pay for it.

2) Screw it. Don't buy it. Don't touch it. Make a statement. Possibly lose out. Whatever...

3) Hit Limewire, Acquisition... steal it... live with the karma... own it... illegally... who cares?...! your call.............

We live in a strange time of fluctuating, but morally accounted for, acts or reason (or treason!?). Big picture?! Small picture.? We're defined by what we do. Not by what we say.

Or post.

;)

:cool:

4th option buy it and live with it and realize it came with all this great software and it still works even though there is a newer version.

[djdarlek]

You're all so going to kick my ass for suggesting this.. BUT

will the new iLife apps have serial numbers and all that ****? or will it just be a case of getting hold of the install file? surely these will be floating over the internet from the 16th>? that way, although it is *slightly* illegal, you could just download the iPhoto app. which i'm sure we all agree SHOULD be free (due to its small size, and the fact that we've already got it but it doesn't work. It's not our fault that the version we paid for doesn't work well.. why should we have to pay for Apple's poor engineering>? although saying that.. Apple kick ass.. and they can have my money. :)

[Chappers]

I do remember (though not where) reading lots of people saying iPhoto was so good that it was worth the money.
I won't buy it cus I don't like it.
iLife =
Garageband - don't have an interest in composing music
iDVD - I've only used it once and most people can't use it.
iTunes - pretty useless upgrade outside the US
iMovie - needs DV streams - any movies that you what to edit must be converted or come out of a video camera. Conversion means Quicktime pro (more money).
Also iPhoto is not fully functional outside the US either. and I'll have to pay more for it than in America. So pay more get less - cool.

£39 here (which according to xe.com currency convertions) = $72

(I know prices here are not Apples fault but I'll still get less for my money)

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by djdarlek
You're all so going to kick my ass for suggesting this.. BUT

will the new iLife apps have serial numbers and all that ****? or will it just be a case of getting hold of the install file? surely these will be floating over the internet from the 16th>? that way, although it is *slightly* illegal, you could just download the iPhoto app. which i'm sure we all agree SHOULD be free (due to its small size, and the fact that we've already got it but it doesn't work. It's not our fault that the version we paid for doesn't work well.. why should we have to pay for Apple's poor engineering>? although saying that.. Apple kick ass.. and they can have my money. :)

*cough* *cough* they are already "available" *cough* *cough*

edit: imovie 4 + iphoto 4 are only 70mb together.

[Squire]

While we're on the topic of less than reputable activities, why would someone buy a "Family Pack" of Panther or some of the other software products? I mean, couldn't you just install the same disc on several computers in your household anyway? Or can they only be installed on one computer?

Just...uh...wondering.

Squire

[djdarlek]

yeah dude.. you can. Thats the extra special thing about Apple is that they don't bother with all the serial bulls**t ala Windoze. I own three pretty recent Macs which I use at home/work and mobile. I think it's unreasonable to expect the user to fork out three time's the cash to have the latest OS running on all three machines I own and use. Isn't it enough that I layed a huge wad of cash down on Apple's table for the hardware>? Three times!?!?! hence, buying 1 copy of the OS is enough good-karma for me to install it on all three of my machines.

:)

[pinto32]

I have just come over from the Wondows world, and to me, 50 bucks is a great deal! (I'm a student, so its 20 bucks less for me, but its worth it reguardless..). On XP, it was nearly impossible for me to manage my photos and movies nearly as easily as I can on my Mac.....I couldn't afford any decent software (as Windows come with practically nothing), so I was forced to limp along in Windows Explorer, viewing my files like that.....pretty lame... When I wanted to actually modify my files, I had no other (financially feasible) option than to pirate overly complicated and poorly designed software from the internet (damn Kazaa: too many viruses on that network!!!)
Really, just try to manage everything on a Windows machine, and you will realize just how good a deal iLife is!

Besides, if iLife 04 sells really well, then that will just give Apple incentive to create even more, and better software!!!

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by pinto32
I have just come over from the Wondows world, and to me, 50 bucks is a great deal! (I'm a student, so its 20 bucks less for me, but its worth it reguardless..). On XP, it was nearly impossible for me to manage my photos and movies nearly as easily as I can on my Mac.....I couldn't afford any decent software (as Windows come with practically nothing), so I was forced to limp along in Windows Explorer, viewing my files like that.....pretty lame... When I wanted to actually modify my files, I had no other (financially feasible) option than to pirate overly complicated and poorly designed software from the internet (damn Kazaa: too many viruses on that network!!!)
Really, just try to manage everything on a Windows machine, and you will realize just how good a deal iLife is!

Besides, if iLife 04 sells really well, then that will just give Apple incentive to create even more, and better software!!!

Good to hear an outsiders opinion on this subject. Welcome to Apple and MacRumors.