Exposé for Windows [Archive]

stcanard

Jan 7, 2004, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
The thing is windows doesn't really need expose as much as Mac OS X does because its easier to navigate a large amount of windows and minimize a whole group... but oh well.

????

For me the whole point of expose is that now I _don't_ have to minimize windows I am using to find things, which is what XP forces me to do.

Ling

Jan 7, 2004, 03:21 PM

Come on Apple...can someone say lawsuit?

edesignuk

Jan 7, 2004, 03:40 PM

Good news for Apple, I posted this in a Windows forum, people were very exceited...until they tried it :eek: On very well spec'd PC's it sucks, the animation is awful, 4/5 fps max! http://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/rollinglaugh.gif

Quartz Extreme > * :D

manitoubalck

Jan 7, 2004, 04:12 PM

Dam it, I was hoping for a free download:(,

P.S: edesignuk Where do you get those emoticons from?

edesignuk

Jan 7, 2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by manitoubalck
P.S: edesignuk Where do you get those emoticons from?
[off topic]
My own little private collection that I add to as an when I see them, upload them to my own web space then use [img] tags ;)
[/off topic]

ChrisH3677

Jan 7, 2004, 05:10 PM

stuff expose for windoze - I want Expose for Jaguar! Anyone done this yet?

And I do agree - Windoze does have easier navigation of open apps. I also reckon it's file management/navigation is heaps better than OSX.

But they're the ONLY two things windoze does better than OSX

Dale Sorel

Jan 7, 2004, 06:26 PM

Well, at least they were able to come up with an original name for their product :rolleyes:

kirk26

Jan 7, 2004, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by agreenster
:eek:

I must say that's about as blatant a rip-off as it gets.

Wait for Longhorn!:p

beg_ne

Jan 7, 2004, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by ChrisH3677

And I do agree - Windoze does have easier navigation of open apps. I also reckon it's file management/navigation is heaps better than OSX.

But they're the ONLY two things windoze does better than OSX

Are we speaking strictly pre-Panther? If so then I agree, Windows barely manages to edge it out.

As of Panther Mac OS X leapfrogged Windows on both those points.

FattyMembrane

Jan 7, 2004, 08:27 PM

the expocity patch has also given metacity users on linux/bsd expose for a while now.

Waluigi

Jan 7, 2004, 08:52 PM

Oh my oh my oh my. This was one of the features of panther I showed over and over to every single person I knew. This was one of the single best eye candy (and useful) features of Mac OS X. To use it was a privillage that you get when you dumped microsoft for apple. But now, I feel cheated, and embarrased, and naked. I love sharing expose with fellow mac users, but to allow it to run on windows...that just kills me.

--Waluigi

Squire

Jan 7, 2004, 08:52 PM

A pathetic rip-off. They even used "Aqua" in the demo pic.

Squire

aethier

Jan 7, 2004, 08:55 PM

Apple legal forced down the websites hosting the dock copy... and this exposé copy is way better, even the setting window is the same, so i wonder how long before they get sued or forced to shot down. did anyone send this to apple legal yet?

aethier

Macmaniac

Jan 7, 2004, 08:55 PM

Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit Lawsuit :eek: :mad: :mad:
Come on Apple don't let millions in research be ripped off like that!

mnkeybsness

Jan 7, 2004, 10:04 PM

apple put a stop to Yzdock for windows (i think that's what it was)... which was almost exactly like the OS X dock, except had some extra features.

this being an exact ripoff of exposé will be shut down as soon as apple legal sends a notice.

i do like the girl in the santa hat in the demo though :D

dukemeiser

Jan 7, 2004, 10:04 PM

Well, if that Apple legal team didn't know about it before, they do now. I just sent a helpful e-mail.

Of course this rip off could be within legal limits, but I would sure like to see it get into a lawsuit. I've never seen such blatant copying.

Gymnut

Jan 7, 2004, 10:10 PM

Damn biters.

AMDMACMAN

Jan 7, 2004, 10:44 PM

Well I had to buy it to see how it works. Well let me tell you. IT is a piece of crap. It does not work at all. Period.

1. I should have known based on the web site and lack of real info(not just fluf) that this was a bad thing.

2. There is little to no info on how to install or configure.

3. The product activation is fishy and after a little investigation, i figured it out. or so it seemed. I entered in the about 500 character key and installed. It does not load. Also i uninstalled it, and reinstalled it with random letters and numbers for the actication key. THis is fake god damn software.

I got robed.

This software does not do anything at all.

ChrisH3677

Jan 7, 2004, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by beg_ne
Are we speaking strictly pre-Panther? If so then I agree, Windows barely manages to edge it out.

As of Panther Mac OS X leapfrogged Windows on both those points.

really?!

I'm so going to have to find the money for Panther!

mnkeybsness

Jan 8, 2004, 09:14 AM

AMDMACMAN:

if it truly does not do what it says it does, you should start sending complaints. if they don't respond, start threatening them with the better business bureau.

toughboy

Jan 8, 2004, 12:04 PM

I dont have Panther working on my mac, so I dont know what you guys talk about..

I wont buy it as a program, but it would be nice if it would come with the next windows release, so that I can use it.. looks handy to me in spite of what you say...

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 12:23 PM

If a program like this were to actually utilize the video card's GPU in Windows much like QE does, wouldn't performance be comparible to Exposé with Panther? I wonder what kind of coding would allow this to happen.

DavidLeblond

Jan 8, 2004, 12:38 PM

Pulled from the FAQ (troubleshooting section):

Short System Freezing

On some computers WinExposé can cause a short freeze of the system when the user is scrolling through a long document. If this occurs on your machine right click the WinExpose icon in the system tray and select the "Don't Freeze" Option.

Wow! A "Don't Freeze" option! Maybe this option will be available in Windows Longhorn so that the OS is usable? :P

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 12:41 PM

Now that would be cool. Also, after all these years, you'd think they'd create a new Windows key on all new keyboards that combines the ctrl+alt+del combo. We could call it the "Don't Blue Screen" button.

Declan

Jan 8, 2004, 12:42 PM

Its strange, a year ago i would have gone crazy for this app, as if it wasn't for the likes of Y'zDock i wouldn't have sold my PC and bought a Mac, but now a Mac only user it annoys me to see this app appear, mainly because they are trying to charge for it, at least Y'sdock was free and believe me apps like that have converted many people to buy/switch to apple. I spent more time customizing my Pc to look like OS X than actually using it and in the end it was always a poor substitute.

tjwett

Jan 8, 2004, 12:42 PM

Don't Freeze?!?! HAHAHA. that's awesome. maybe we'll get a "Don't Beachball" option soon. Personally I'd like to have a "Don't Die" option on my car and maybe a "Don't Talk" option on my girlfriend, sometimes. "Don't Rain" would be nice for going on vacation as well. :)

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 12:45 PM

Isn't there a kind of a "don't beach ball" option with the new Developer Tools under Panther? I haven't played with it much, but there is an utilities app in the Developer folder that is supposed to kill the beach ball.

edesignuk

Jan 8, 2004, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If a program like this were to actually utilize the video card's GPU in Windows much like QE does, wouldn't performance be comparible to Exposé with Panther?
Yes it would be, if Windows had somthing like QE it'd be fine...but it doesn't...so it isn't :)

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 01:05 PM

Do you need a technology like Quartz in order to write an app under Windows to utilize the graphics card, though? It'd be kind of like writing a game, in that aspect, since obviously games utilize the graphics processor. I admit I have no clue about software programming, but there must be some way at accessing the GPU under the Windows environment to draw from.

neut

Jan 8, 2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
...but there must be some way at accessing the GPU under the Windows environment to draw from.

of course there has to be...i mean, what you see in windows is all being drawn by the GPU. isn't it? unless it's all a magical facade then im stumped ;)

peace.

stcanard

Jan 8, 2004, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Do you need a technology like Quartz in order to write an app under Windows to utilize the graphics card, though?

The problem is that you have to tell the window manager what to do, so the window manager needs 3d accelerated hooks.

A standalone app like a game only has to worry about what's inside it's own window and can tell the GPU what to do with the contents.

Somethink like expose has to hand off the the window manager at some point to redraw windows it has nothing to do with really.

That's what Quartz Extreme is -- 3d acceleration for the window manager directly.

And that, in a nutshell, is why OSX can have a ton of eye candy that Windows cannot without a major redesign.

stcanard

Jan 8, 2004, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by neut
of course there has to be...i mean, what you see in windows is all being drawn by the GPU. isn't it? unless it's all a magical facade then im stumped ;)

peace.

Ahh, but the window manager only used the 2D API, not the 3D API (in windows).

It's kind of like optimizing photoshop for altivec. Unless you tell it the functionality is there and how to use it, it sits wasted.

That is also the difference between Quartz and Quartz Extreme -- Quartz goes through the 2D API, QE goes through the 3D.

Lanbrown

Jan 8, 2004, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
AMDMACMAN:

if it truly does not do what it says it does, you should start sending complaints. if they don't respond, start threatening them with the better business bureau.

Shady companies are not part of the BBB so the threat of revoking their membership is a moot point.

What did people expect for $9.95. Things priced at $9.95 are either junk or overpriced. CD's can be $9.95 and they are a huge rip-off.

GovornorPhatt

Jan 8, 2004, 05:07 PM

Consiter it a compliment to the Mac OS: They liked it so much, they had to carbon copy it! They could have at lease changed the name. In the past, Windows has stollen ideas from the mac. That's whats happening here.

Gaz

Jan 8, 2004, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by stcanard
And that, in a nutshell, is why OSX can have a ton of eye candy that Windows cannot without a major redesign. [/B]

Called Longhorn...which apparently does the graphics very very well. Only time will tell...

It's all good as it should help drive Apple to continue to raise the bar and let us continue to demand better things from our computers.

No one's perfect

Edit: Spelling

MacFan26

Jan 8, 2004, 06:16 PM

wow, that's really shocking, I mean, they could have at least changed the name. I hope Apple gets on them quick. Lawsuits in Apple's favor are always fun to follow :D

AMDMACMAN

Jan 8, 2004, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by AMDMACMAN
Well I had to buy it to see how it works. Well let me tell you. IT is a piece of crap. It does not work at all. Period.

1. I should have known based on the web site and lack of real info(not just fluf) that this was a bad thing.

2. There is little to no info on how to install or configure.

3. The product activation is fishy and after a little investigation, i figured it out. or so it seemed. I entered in the about 500 character key and installed. It does not load. Also i uninstalled it, and reinstalled it with random letters and numbers for the actication key. THis is fake god damn software.

I got robed.

This software does not do anything at all.

Yeah, I got screwed. I sent them an email to their support and so far i got no response. I also have sent them an email to their sales address requesting a refund. Lets see if I get a response. I doubt it.

I also tried to install this on another computer with the same result.

killmoms

Jan 8, 2004, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Gaz
Called Longhorn...which apparently does the graphics very very well. Only time will tell...

It's all good as it should help drive Apple to continue to raise the bar and let us continue to demand better things from our computers. Except, of course, that Longhorn won't come out for two years (at absolute best), perhaps as long as FOUR, at which point we'll be on MacOS X 10.7 British Tick, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

--Cless

billyboy

Jan 8, 2004, 08:41 PM

I reckon an Apple developer lost a bet and his forfeit was to write the second best app for Windows. could have got the demo right at least.

macrumors12345

Jan 8, 2004, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by edesignuk
Good news for Apple, I posted this in a Windows forum, people were very exceited...until they tried it :eek: On very well spec'd PC's it sucks, the animation is awful, 4/5 fps max! http://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/rollinglaugh.gif

Quartz Extreme > * :D

Of course. If it were that easy, MSFT would have done it. Or, to be more precise, if MSFT could get things like Expose without totally rewriting the Windows display layer, they wouldn't be totally rewriting the Windows display layer for Longhorn (Windows 2006, or 2007, or whatever it is by now).

The developer is clearly an idiot though - positioning him/herself to get sued by Apple for blatant infringement by copying every last name and detail.

That said, maybe Apple *shouldn't* sue. Then people can compare WinExpose with real Expose and (incorrectly) come away with the impression that Apple hardware is orders of magnitude faster than PC hardware, just as they might sometimes (incorrectly) come away with the impression that PC hardware is much faster than Apple hardware when comparing a very badly ported app on PC vs. Mac.

ChrisH3677

Jan 8, 2004, 09:14 PM

Windows doesn't need Expose. OSX did need it.

tyson12zoll

Jan 8, 2004, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by ChrisH3677
Windows doesn't need Expose. OSX did need it.

I think everyone seemed to get along fine without it in 10.2.
Regardless, its one of the best innovations to come from apple, IMO, and I'm sure bill gates would die to get it in longhorn.

tutubibi

Jan 8, 2004, 09:35 PM

Probably just a hoax (or even scam).

Just look at payment screen (not via PayPal, Kagi or similar but directly on their web site), also no trial version available.
Only way to contact is email.

Rower_CPU

Jan 8, 2004, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by ChrisH3677
Windows doesn't need Expose. OSX did need it.

Care to clarify?

x86isslow

Jan 8, 2004, 09:49 PM

"start-button+ D" (hide all apps) and "alt+tab"(scroll through apps, with gui representations of the apps) are available in windows and have been for some time.

the only mac equiv i can think of (before expose`, is a menu option- "hide all others/hide this window"

Kwyjibo

Jan 8, 2004, 09:52 PM

apple tab switching has worked since atleast jaguar ... there was just not litle window that showed up it just hilighted the icon in the dock and that was fine for me, kind of easier to use imo. Also if you click on the finder you can click option+apple+ h to hide all the aps except finder ...

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 09:54 PM

Apple+Tab has been available for quite some time, we just haven't had so much graphical slickness until now.

1macker1

Jan 8, 2004, 10:00 PM

Windows had some of those features for a long time, so who's copying who. But i think we already had that debate in another thread.

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 10:06 PM

If you want to get into an argument copying...MS copied the mouse from the Macintosh, the GUI, the concept of using drivers to manipulate input devices, the concept of files, folders, and windows, the concept of multimedia, the concept of a clipboard for editing, the concept of the trash can when you delete items...

ChrisH3677

Jan 8, 2004, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Care to clarify?

As a switcher and not having Panther, I still struggle with the "messy desktop" of OSX.

I reckon Windows Taskbar is very good and makes knowing what's open and finding it quite easy - definitely easier than OSX's dock.

Along with the Quick Launch bar where you can stick your fave apps, I think it's better than OSX (before Panther).

Also, everyone I ever see runs their applications in Windows full screen. This reduces clutter and in affect is like the Tabs in Safari that everyone loves so much - i.e.your app fills the screen and you have "tabs" for each of them in the taskbar.

I really really like OSX - navigating open apps and file management are the only two things that let it down - but as I've been told, both these are greatly improved in Panther. And I'm saving for it! :D

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 10:16 PM

I personally hate the full screen habits of Windows. Whenever I fix my family's computers, I always have to minimize those things down and it annoys me that apps like Photoshop and Office literally steal the entire screen from you when you are working in them behind a pointless gray background. As far as the messy desktop, Exposé definitely helps, and so does Option clicking to hide windows, and also, this may be a big help to some as it was to me when I switched, but check out Lite Switch X, it allows you to set application behavior such as single application mode, which automatically hides all but the active program you are using so that you have a cleaner workspace until you get used to working with multiple apps at once. I at first hated having so many applications visible on the desktop, but between the wealth of multitasking tools available and the wide screen of my PowerBook, it's so awesome having Word, iChat, iTunes, etc, all open at once and being able to work with and interact with each one at any given time.

ChrisH3677

Jan 8, 2004, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
... between the wealth of multitasking tools available and the wide screen of my PowerBook, it's so awesome having Word, iChat, iTunes, etc, all open at once and being able to work with and interact with each one at any given time.

Do you have 17inch? I haven't got the hang of multiple apps visible yet (on my 15in).

Before I discovered Konfabulator, at work I had my VPC session on my second screen which was way cool. But now I have all widgets on it.

I don't often interact between two programs so often get annoyed at the mess behind the app I'm in. Therefore I "Hide Others"

On the other hand, it is good though then coz on a single screen, I can see some of my important widgets when i "Hide Others".

I'll check out Lite Switch X - it might help.

thanks

ZildjianKX

Jan 8, 2004, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by ChrisH3677
stuff expose for windoze - I want Expose for Jaguar! Anyone done this yet?

And I do agree - Windoze does have easier navigation of open apps. I also reckon it's file management/navigation is heaps better than OSX.

But they're the ONLY two things windoze does better than OSX

Windows has much better networking support for file sharing still... but I hope Apple will fix this eventually.

And for the people complaining about copying... GUIs were copied from Xerox, MS and Apple have both copied from each other, perhaps MS more in the past...

Powerbook G5

Jan 8, 2004, 11:44 PM

I have a 15", but it's just a matter of getting used to making the most out of your screen space. I generally keep my Word document in the center when I am working on a paper, keep my iChat list to the upper right corner, an IM box or two on the left sides so I can see the convo, my iTunes remote on the bottom left corner, my office floating toolbar to the right, etc. I can't imagine what people with those 23" displays do, those things are insanely huge. Seeing a standard dock with just a dozen icons on those screens makes everything look so spread out.

Rower_CPU

Jan 9, 2004, 12:03 AM

A general reply to the Exposé vs Windows Explorer discussion....

For me, the dock combines the Quick Launch area and Taskbar into one object. This is streamlined, at the expense of listing individual windows. You can get to individual windows within an app by right/control-clicking on the dock icon, as well as many other options.

Option-clicking on an app in the dock will bring that app to the front and hide all others. This works for the Finder, too.

All of the above functionality has been in X as long as I can remember.

IMO, the strength of Exposé is in the ability to show actual window contents, rather than just window titles, which can often be identical. Windows' Taskbar can't show what's on a page, or tell you that image file 'img2003.jpg' is the file you want and not 'img2004.jpg'. Exposé also makes switching between discrete windows within applications easier for me than the Taskbar. So, if you never have more than one app open and/or window open within an app, yes, Windows doesn't need Exposé. ;)

Sabenth

Jan 9, 2004, 12:07 AM

bit late on this post but had to say HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..... to the poor sod who bought it lmao..

Sorry mate but thats somthing you just dont do ....

Oh and If your on jag still you wont see exspose in a million years on Jag sorry

MacFan26

Jan 9, 2004, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I have a 15", but it's just a matter of getting used to making the most out of your screen space.

Yeah, it is how you use your screen space. Like for example on my dad's 12 inch iBook, he always has the dock on hiding, because it gets in the way of most applications. On his 17 inch iMac however he keeps the dock on, since it doesn't cover up his programs.

Chappers

Jan 9, 2004, 05:44 AM

I use Minimize in Place and Reveal Desktop apps in Jaguar which are as close as you're gonna get to Expose. Minimize in Place seems to have vanished from unsanity. They now sell Windowshade X for $10 plus various other haxies. http://www.unsanity.com/products.php

Tiauguinho

Jan 9, 2004, 06:02 AM

The only thing that caught my attention was the Santa Girl! :D

As for the member that bought the app: Im sorry to hear that it simply doesnt work at all. I seriously hope that you can get a refund!

Declan

Jan 9, 2004, 06:29 AM

Didn't Apple buy the GUI concept from XEROx and MS then copied Apple on the sly.

5300cs

Jan 9, 2004, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Declan
Didn't Apple buy the GUI concept from XEROx and MS then copied Apple on the sly. Apple gave Xerox stock options (or stock outright, don't know.) m$ "weasled in" to the GUI world. In the process of making Word, were able to see the innards of the Mac OS and "borrow" what they wanted.

1macker1

Jan 9, 2004, 08:50 AM

We all sit in here and talk about who copied who. But if you didnt work for apple or ms back then, you dont really know the truth.

stcanard

Jan 9, 2004, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by x86isslow
"start-button+ D" (hide all apps) and "alt+tab"(scroll through apps, with gui representations of the apps) are available in windows and have been for some time.

This has been gone over so many times I'm sick of hearing the mis-information.

start-button+D does not come anything close to expose because it does not remember which apps were not minimized after you open something from the desktop. That is the whole point of expose. It remembers everything about your window placement

Without that feature "show desktop" is useless to expose's core audience, those of us who have a workflow that requires large numbers of open windows.

Do a search and you can find long threads discussing this exact issue.

ac2102

Jan 9, 2004, 10:29 AM

I think that its great that an exact copy has been made, as a Mac user i feel quite flattered, even though i had absolutely nothing to do with the idea!

Also, Exposé has the cunning ability to update every window in real time, great if you want to watch a video while downloading while watching the Macrumors live feed from a MacExpo!

Exposé is a feature that i just use all of the time. I sometimes find myself reverting back to the old windows way of doing things and then i remember that all i have to do is press a button; i rarely use minimize at all.

fabsgwu

Jan 9, 2004, 12:04 PM

I don't like hackies, they f up system performance in my opinion. I have Panther and use Lite Switch X because I find apple's comand + Tab doesn't have as many features.

Finally, if you like the start menu of windows for having favorite programs etc. check out Classic Menu; it is an overlay on the apple menu on the left-hand side of the screen and its good for accessing shortcuts etc. and the apple menu is still accessable with a key + click combo (and it's not a hack).

P.S. For switching, I also enjoy ASM - it puts the OS 9 type app switcher on the right hand side. it's nice when you don't feel like using the keyboard and you want to see a quick list of what's running etc.

Powerbook G5

Jan 9, 2004, 12:12 PM

When I first switched, I got Action Utilities GoMac!, which literally recreates the Windows Start menu/task bar, but it's an OS 8/9 program. I used it for a long time as it put the start menu with the program menu, taskbar, quick launch menu, etc on my Mac along with including Lite Switch built in for command tabbing and single application mode. It really made the switch nice and easy for me. I know, it butchers the whole feel of using a Mac, but it did help with the transition until I began seeing the benefits of how the Mac OS is set up for efficiency and multi tasking.

sjk

Jan 9, 2004, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I personally hate the full screen habits of Windows.Yeah, I think it's lame and annoying, too, but I find myself doing it (begrudingly) when I occasionally use XP (shudder) on my wife's notebook PC. On my 1024x768 iBook I normally avoid using any application (minus video players) in full screen.As far as the messy desktop, Exposé definitely helps, and so does Option clicking to hide windows, and also, this may be a big help to some as it was to me when I switched, but check out Lite Switch X, [...]... and/or "desktop manager" apps like CodeTek Virtual Desktop, Desktop Manager, and Workspaces. And Exposé has made using virtual desktops even nicer, especially on my small iBook display. In general, virtual desktops provide window layout organization (which I like) and Exposé helps manage window clutter (which I try to minimize).

Switching between virtual desktops with "spatial context" preserved is something I've never efficiently mastered while using a single window-cluttered desktop. I think it's because virtual desktops have successfully imprinted me with the illusion of using a larger desktop that resists being shattered -- I've tried, 'til it became too frustrating.

Virtual desktops can make it easier to run full screen apps, but I hardly do that because there's always something else I want visible at the same time.

sjk

Jan 9, 2004, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by stcanard
This has been gone over so many times I'm sick of hearing the mis-information.

start-button+D does not come anything close to expose because it does not remember which apps were not minimized after you open something from the desktop. That is the whole point of expose. It remembers everything about your window placement

Without that feature "show desktop" is useless to expose's core audience, those of us who have a workflow that requires large numbers of open windows.

Do a search and you can find long threads discussing this exact issue. Uhh, any helpful suggestions what to search for that would make it easier to find what you're referring to?

Forum searching is arguably most effective if you're looking for something you've previously read or written. Otherwise it easily becomes tedious and time consuming since topics and discussions are often so loosely structured and overlapping. Newcomers stand little chance of finding relevant topic history by searching large forums (like this one) so you inevitably end up with lots of redundancy. And veterans are "penalized" (e.g. stcanard's "sick of hearing" quoted comment above) by having to see and/or filter it.

I think many forums encourage a "sloppy" style of group communication, almost by design. Said more positively, they're "casual", a major reason why they're so popular. Yet they don't really scale well beyond a certain amount of traffic. Maybe they'll evolve into something more "beneficial" for their large diversity of participants? Certainly we'll evolve... :)

Sometimes I wish it were easier ignoring that theme as an undercurrent with much of my forum usage tho' I'm too stubborn to take it for granted that this is as good as it gets.

That's all. Now, back to our regularly scrambled topic... :)

rosalindavenue

Jan 12, 2004, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by Sabenth
bit late on this post but had to say HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..... to the poor sod who bought it lmao..

Sorry mate but thats somthing you just dont do ....

Oh and If your on jag still you wont see exspose in a million years on Jag sorry

Uhhh, I sprung for it and it works just fine. Not as smooth as Panther, of course, and it seems to take "snapshots" of the windows rather than show them live, but it has the basic functionality depicted in the flash demo, at least on a Toshiba 17 inch notebook with a desktop pentium 4 2.8 gz with XP home. The keyboard remapping doesn't work on mine, but the hot corners are fine.

Squidly

Jan 12, 2004, 08:34 AM

Out of curiosity, I purchased "Expose' for Windows". It does work, but the performance sucks. The windows sort of "chunk" as they slide to the side. They hop more than slide actually.

More importantly, the app sits in your tray and effects your system performance negatively while you're working (and not using the product.) Your mouse will lag intermittently as you move it, and scrolling similarly lags (even with the "no freeze" thing checked.

I've disabled the product and will soon uninstall it. I don't have Panther installed on my iBook yet so I can't compare the two products, but I can't imagine that it performs nearly as badly as winexpose.

MorganX

Jan 12, 2004, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by stcanard
????

For me the whole point of expose is that now I _don't_ have to minimize windows I am using to find things, which is what XP forces me to do.

With, Tile/Cascade, Minimize/Restore(some or all), and the taskbar, Expose is totally unecessary in XP and every version of Windows since Windows 95.

Moving from one-click Windows management to using key combinations is a step backwards. I don't expect much success for this at all.

Powerbook G5

Jan 12, 2004, 09:08 AM

You have got to be kidding me. Pushing a button and having access to every window in any way I need or a quick view of the desktop is more efficient by leaps and bounds than minimizing, restoring, and searching the taskbar for the right windows in Windows.

stcanard

Jan 12, 2004, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by MorganX
With, Tile/Cascade, Minimize/Restore(some or all), and the taskbar, Expose is totally unecessary in XP and every version of Windows since Windows 95.

You've missed the point.

Minimzing windows I'm using destroys my workflow because I have to go searching for it again when I need it 20 seconds later.

Minimize all is worse because now I lose every window.

Again, to re-iterate the statement in my post that you apparently ignored:

The point of expose is that you don't need to minimize windows

Now if you only use one or two active windows at a time I can see not understanding the need for this.

Every single day on my work computer I lament the lack of an expose feature because there is no easy way to get at the desktop or buried windows without changing my active window positioning.