Mozilla, Camino, and Firebird

[mms]

Can somebody explain to me the difference between Mozilla, Camino, and Firebird? They are all based on the same rendering engine (I believe) so why is the Mozilla Organization developing three browsers concurrently?

[Thirteenva]

Mozilla is java based, and very similar to netscape(netscape browser is based on mozilla releases), it is feature rich and offers both a browser and an email client.

Firebird is similar to mozilla but is JUST a browser. Its somewhat stripped and slimmed down compared to mozilla and on the PC i prefer it to mozilla.

Camino is also based on the gecko engine of mozilla however it is coded in Cocoa. The native language of OS X. The others are coded in Java. Being coded in Cocoa gives camino a speed advantage and allows will allow it to take advantage of some features and frameworks present within the cocoa environment that may not be available in Java.

[mms]

So if Camino and Firebird are both just browsers with the same features, why do they write the same thing in two different languages? From what you said it seems that Cocoa is better. Are there any advantages to using a Java-based browser?

[Thirteenva]

Java is easily compiled for multiple platforms. Best cross platform solution.

Also firebird is a very good browser, has its advantages over camino.

Of the three i prefer camino on os x (second to safari).

And firebird when using a PC.

[josepht]

Cocoa is the language based on Objective C (I believe) that is used to write Mac OS X native applications. If my understanding of Cocoa is correct, only applications coded in it will take complete and full advantage of all of Mac OS X's abilities.

For that reason, I wouldn't recommend MozillaFirebird for Mac OS X. However, it is, without a doubt, the best browser on Linux or Windows.

[bousozoku]

Cocoa is not a language but an application framework--a group of facilitators for applications. It is no more native than Carbon.

I recommended Camino over everything else until Panther when it would no longer work adequately. Firebird has been doing a better than acceptable job, but there are still a few problems with the displaying of text where the gecko engine and Panther don't quite meet.

Mozilla just has quite a lot in it, including the previously mentioned items, there is an IRC client, a newsgroup reader, and a HTML page editor.

[mms]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I recommended Camino over everything else until Panther when it would no longer work adequately.

You mean it doesn't have support for Panther three months after its release? Specifically what doesn't work? I've been using Safari mostly in Panther. I believe 0.8 is set to come out in March. Would any problems with Panther be solved with that release?

[bubbamac]

I'm using Camino on Panther, and haven't had any problems. Of course, it's not my primary browser (Safari is), and I don't stretch it to it's limits.

I'm using the nightly builds, through CaminoKnight.

Can't wait to see the next official versions of both Camino and Firebird.

[Grimace]

Camino works fine in Panther. I prefer it to Safari.

[scterrell]

I prefer Camino over Safari because I have better luck properly rendering pages under Camino both on my desk top running Panther and on my Powerbook running Jaguar. I also prefer the appearance of Camino over Safari.

[billyboy]

With Jaguar, Camino was excellent and very reliable. In Panther I use Camino over Safari, but only because it is so quick. It has trouble with the banners on this site - they slip about half way down the screen, I cant drag and drop stuff in Exposé, which is a pain, and it sometimes has a benny consuming lots of CPU. Safari seems more feature rich, (or more OS X compliant), it hasnt crashed on me, but it doesnt blaze through like Camino.

It was interesting reading about different Mozilla browsers. Where does Omniweb fit into the scene, as I have heard it is being updated and could be really good?

[mms]

OmniWeb is not part of the Mozilla family. Produced by OmniGroup, it uses a different rendering engine, the same one as Safari.

[mms]

You have problems with the banners too? The same thing happens to me with Netscape 7.0. It doesn't happen with IE, so I was thinking that it was because of the Mozilla rendering engine. This problem only occurs when there is an anchor to a specific post. The banner displays correctly when the #_____ is taken off the url and the page is reloaded.

[King Cobra]

Knowing my luck with beta browsers, I'll only test out Camino once it hits a firm 1.0. I've heard quite a lot of positive/neutral feedback about Camino since version it was at 0.7, so I'll be looking forward to the 1.0 marker.

Wow. People still use Netscape today? http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/new_shocked.gif http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/new_shocked.gif http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/new_shocked.gif http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/new_snipersmilie.gif

[mms]

On OS 9.0. Only alternative to IE, since the latest version of Mozilla supported is 1.2.1, which crashes on me every time on startup.

[Westside guy]

Camino's been stuck on 0.7 for a LONG time. Is it actually being developed now (wasn't for quite a while), or is it just being maintained to keep the current gecko back-end working in it?

Personally I prefer Firebird; but I use Safari as a backup. There are a couple of OS X-specific bugs in Firebird that occasionally trip me up.

[stromie952]

Mozilla isn't Java based at all just so everyone knows. It is C++ mostly and neither it nor Netscape has been Java based.

All of the Mozilla derivative browsers, including Camino and Firebird) are based off of the same engine. Camino has Mac OS X optimized widgets and the like unlike Firebird, but the engine itself is very similar.

[stromie952]

Sorry for the double post, but yes Camino is still being developed. It wasn't for a long time, but it definitely is being developed now.

If you want to test the nightly versions to see how it has progressed since 0.7 (a lot) go to versiontracker and download CaminoKnight. It will auto update your verison of Camino to the newest nightly available. Nowadays it seems that they are updating every day and the progress has been fairly steady for a whgile now. So, I think it is worth taking another look at.

For now I still use Safari because the speed difference isn't much and Camino is still a little more crash prone than Safari. But, Camino is definitely very usable on a daily basis.

[Westside guy]

Originally posted by stromie952
If you want to test the nightly versions to see how it has progressed since 0.7 (a lot) go to versiontracker and download CaminoKnight. It will auto update your verison of Camino to the newest nightly available.

Thanks - I'll give it a go.

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by stromie952
Sorry for the double post, but yes Camino is still being developed. It wasn't for a long time, but it definitely is being developed now.

If you want to test the nightly versions to see how it has progressed since 0.7 (a lot) go to versiontracker and download CaminoKnight. It will auto update your verison of Camino to the newest nightly available. Nowadays it seems that they are updating every day and the progress has been fairly steady for a whgile now. So, I think it is worth taking another look at.

For now I still use Safari because the speed difference isn't much and Camino is still a little more crash prone than Safari. But, Camino is definitely very usable on a daily basis.

Thanks for the CaminoKnight tip, I was downloading new versions like 3 times a week manually :)

I've been using Camino for my primary browser for the past week now, and I am very impressed. Very fast, and it loads most Java pages that Safari can't. Anyone ever try going to www.ign.com with Safari? Horrible. (Actually, I'm not sure what IGN.com uses... but Safari hates it)

Only complaints I have about Camino is that its not very easy to access your history (like it is in Safari), and I miss being able to click and hold the back arrow to get the last few sites I visited.

[jazzman45]

thanks stromie for the correction that it's C++, not Java.

I wasn't too interested in this thread, but I made sure somebody corrected the guy.


Mozilla does come in a Java flavor ( www.jazilla.org )

Mozilla is a lot more platform independent than many other programs, but that does not mean it's programmed in java.

-tyler