no m-audio $99 keyboards

[jigglyjon]

I dont know about every where else, but here in Seattle WA there is no where to find those m-audio keyboards. I have been calling the apple store and they keep saying that they are expecting a shipment in. how is it everywhere else?

[freddy11]

I ordered one, along with iLife, from the apple store the day of the Keynote speech. That was on the sixth, I just got an email from apple that the keyboard wouldn't ship until March 8th. More than two months after I ordered.

[edesignuk]

I ordered a keyboard yesterday, eta early march!!!! :eek: I couldn't believe my eyes!

[SilentPanda]

That's odd... my dad ordered his a few days after the keynote and he got his on Friday. Ordered from Apple Online Store... I didn't order one because he's the kind of person that will probably get bored with it after a month or two and then I can run over to their place and "borrow" it for a few years... :)

[mtorbin]

M-Audio makes a keyboard that's a few steps above the one Apple is promoting called the OZone. The nice thing about the OZone, other than the fact that it has everything you'd want in a controller, is that it also has two 1/4 inch line inputs (i.e. for your guitar and/or mic).

That's what I used and I'm quite happy with it. You can find this at Sam Ash.

- MT

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by jigglyjon
I dont know about every where else, but here in Seattle WA there is no where to find those m-audio keyboards. I have been calling the apple store and they keep saying that they are expecting a shipment in. how is it everywhere else? Saw one on display a few days ago in the Phoenix AZ • Apple Store; check Chandler AZ store too.

Keystation 49e—49-Key Entry-Level USB MIDI Controller
There was a lot of hoppla over the new Keystation 49e, especially since Apple CEO Steve Jobs highlighted it with Apple’s new entry-level sequencer, Garage Band, in his Macworld keynote speech a few weeks ago. This 49-note, velocity-sensitive keyboard is a no frills USB MIDI controller for just $99.95 MSRP. Available in both Apple stores and M-Audio dealers.
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.new&ID=f1d5e9fa5f5ab5ee94f61b9b262d906c

Good luck finding one at a dealer.
If you want a more serious M-Audio keyboard with some "frills", check these at discount, some barely over $100:

http://www.h-m-audio.com/usb-midi-controller/index.html

http://www.8thstreet.com/product_search2.asp?combined=M-Audio&site=Go+to....&o=maudio

[512ke]

No $99 keyboards at the Grove the day before yesterday (Jan 24 2004).

[mtorbin]

Originally posted by 512ke
No $99 keyboards at the Grove the day before yesterday (Jan 24 2004).

Hey gang,

I did some research before I bought the piece that I did. Both myself and my friend who worked at the music store where I bought the keyboard from are college trained tech musicians (he has a major, I minored). It was both of our beliefs, as well as countless others that I've spoken to, that the $99 you would spend on that keyboard would be better served going to a just slightly better model (I think I paid close to $200, but I did get a $25 break).

Now, I'm not saying that you should take my opinion as fact, but I'd hate to see someone buy something and find out later it wasn't worth the money they spent.

- MT

[tjwett]

Guitar Center has them. if i remember correctly there is one in Seattle, on West Lake.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by mtorbin
Hey gang,

I did some research before I bought the piece that I did.
It was both of our beliefs, as well as countless others that I've spoken to, that the $99 you would spend on that keyboard would be better served going to a just slightly better model (I think I paid close to $200, but I did get a $25 break). - MT Well, what did you get and where did you get it? Model #?

[mtorbin]

Ok, here's the deal. The real reason we all want to play with GarageBand is really two-fold:

1) The MIDI capabillities are insane for the price.
2) You can plug your guitar in an audio jack on the computer and record without ANYTHING in between (such as an amp).

With that in mind, this is why I suggest the OZone:

Keep in mind, I don't write music professionally (I have a minor in music tech which I use more for corporate than anything else). I'm a digital artist. This means my flash / PowerPoint / web work / videography comes first and if we need music, then I'll whip something together. The music comes second. I need something that is easy to use, that will allow me to get tracks in quick and fast, and won't inhibit me down the road.

The OZone does just that. It's smaller than its 44 key counterpart (25 keys to be exact), but then again, it has an octave shifter, so do you really need that many keys? Yes, I can fit both hands on the keyboard, but if you're looking to record MIDI classical tracks, then you might want to go to the next model ABOVE this one.

The OZone comes with the usual toys:
- Pitch Wheel
- Modulation Wheel
- Full Size, Pressure Sensitive Keys

However, there are also a number of other things that make this a very useful gadget for those of you who need a compact, MIDI keyboard on steroids:

On the back you have:
- MIDI out for USB and Keyboard
- 1/4 Sustain Jack
- 1/4 Headphone Jack
- 1/4 Stereo Out Jack
- 1/4 Line In
- XLR Mic In
- Phantom Power

On the top you have:
- Eight Pan Knobs (don't ask, I haven't gotten that far yet)
- Gain Knob
- Headphone Knob

There are other features, but I haven't gotten that far yet. The thing you should focus on is the 1/4 Line In and the XLR Mic In. All you have to do is plug your guitar in one jack and your Mic in the other. The OZone connects to your Mac via USB, so you're all set. That's it. Truly plug and play.

The real piece that your buying here is portability. As any developer knows, you have multiple things on your desk and very little space to work. The siimple fact that the OZone is just over a foot long is very attractive, especially when you consider all the other capabilities.

Is this keyboard for everyone? No, of course not. Like I said earlier, if you're looking for a PRO controller, this isn't it. This is a unit built for developers whose work is complimented by the music, not the other way around.

The price is just about double that of the keyboard that Apple is offering, but when you consider that if you bought:

Apple Keyboard: $99
1/4 Guitar Adapter: $80
TOTAL: $179

You're almost already up there anyway, and now you have 1/2 the amount of space on your desk that you would have had with the OZone.

I don't work for M-Audio and I'm not a sponsor. I'm just a developer who shares the tips and tricks that I learn as I come across them.

If you have any questions, please feel free to email me.

- MT

[mtorbin]

LOL... sorry, forgot the most important part. I bought my M-Audio OZone at Sam Ash in Franklin Mills Mall in Philadelphia, Pa. I'm not sure of the price (since I bought it through a friend) but I believe that it's something like $250. That's not a lot considering what you get.

Currently, I know that they're out of them, but they should be getting more in soon.

- MT

[jigglyjon]

so i have been calling everyday to both the apple store here in seattle and in bothell and no such luck. I am thinking that i will head down to guitar center. I remember seeing a keyboard there at 150 so i will take a look at it. i will let everyone know how it turns out :)

[LimeLite]

Originally posted by mtorbin
LOL... sorry, forgot the most important part. I bought my M-Audio OZone at Sam Ash in Franklin Mills Mall in Philadelphia, Pa. I'm not sure of the price (since I bought it through a friend) but I believe that it's something like $250. That's not a lot considering what you get.

Currently, I know that they're out of them, but they should be getting more in soon.

- MT
It's $299.99 MSRP, and only 25 keys. So, while I'm sure it's good, probably not quite the market that garage band users are looking for.

[mtorbin]

It depends upon what you consider to be a typical GarageBand user. Frankly, I think that even the least savvy Mac user will find the $99 keyboard constraining.

Just because there are 25 keys does not mean its worthless. You have an octave shifter on it that allows you to access the full range.

You also have more sonic control than you would normally have with the $99 keyboard.

Also, if you go with the $99 keyboard, where are you going to plug in your guitar/bass? How about your mic?

In order to use those items, you'll need an additional piece that goes for about $80. This feature comes standard with the keyboard I suggested.

As far as the price, while the MSRP is $299, Sam Ash is selling it for about $75 off of that price.


Like I said, this keyboard isn't for everyone. It's a prosumer keyboard. That's who its intended for.

- MT

[jadam]

You should also remember not everyone is looking to use a guitar in any of there songs, and if they are the apple loops might suffice them.

But how good is the quality on the $99 M-Audio keyboards? Im thinking about purchasing one, im probally going to take down to soho to try one out.

[mtorbin]

Originally posted by jadam
You should also remember not everyone is looking to use a guitar in any of there songs, and if they are the apple loops might suffice them.

But how good is the quality on the $99 M-Audio keyboards? Im thinking about purchasing one, im probally going to take down to soho to try one out.

From what I heard, it's not worth the money because it's very limited. Trust me, I originially didn't want to spend the extra cash either, but I got the same reponse from several people. They all said that the $99 keyboard was just OK. Not spectacular and hardly adequate. I don't know this from personal experience, I just know that's what I heard from reliable sources.

- MT

[jadam]

All im looking to do though is to use it to run the synths on garageband. It should do that fairly nicely shouldnt it?

[mtorbin]

Yeah, if you're looking for the big three:

1) Pitch wheel
2) Pressure sensitive keys
3) Modulation Wheel

Then you're good to go. It has all that.

- MT

[Thom_Edwards]

Originally posted by jadam
All im looking to do though is to use it to run the synths on garageband. It should do that fairly nicely shouldnt it?

it will be MORE than enough. i used to use a non-velocity sensitive keyboard (everything comes out at 64) with a few keys missing from a moving incident. i did strictly house music and had no problems.

from what i gather, this keyboard is velocity sensitive with the mod, pitch, etc. (i'm not sure about aftertouch, but i would think that in this day and age it would have it, too.) for synths and looping, i can't imagine why you would need more.

[mtorbin]

Originally posted by Thom_Edwards
...i can't imagine why you would need more.

Personally, as a pro developer, I DO need more... that's why I went with what I did. I need the capability of being able to add analog instruments and microphone recordable audio.

- MT

[javabear90]

I was looking at some cheap keyboards also and I found this one. And its even compatable with macs!

[javabear90]

sorry i messed up the URL is

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040128093459065065026177123917/g=key/search/detail/base_pid/701522/

-ted;)

[mtorbin]

Originally posted by javabear90
I was looking at some cheap keyboards also and I found this one. And its even compatable with macs!

This keyboard is fine, so long as you don't want the pitch wheel, the modulation wheel, and touch sensitive keys.

- MT

[Kirk]

I ordered the Keystation 49 E from the the Apple store (Norway) on January 12. It was supposed to take 5 to 6 weeks but they shipped it after 3 days! It was delivered to me on January 19th.

I’m no pro, but I sure love it! :D

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by mtorbin
The real reason we all want to play with GarageBand is:
1) The MIDI capabillities -- insane for the price!
2) You can plug your guitar into an audio jack on the computer and record without ANYTHING in between (such as an amp; saving $99 to $449).

That is why I suggest the M-Audio OZone (List $300; discount $225):
It's smaller than the M-Audio 44 key model Apple is selling (25 keys to be exact), but, it has an Octave Shifter, so do you really need that many keys?
I can fit both hands on the keyboard, but if you're looking to record MIDI classical tracks, then you might want to go to the next model UP for a full keyboard.

The OZone comes with the usual toys:
- Pitch Wheel
- Modulation Wheel
- Full Size, Pressure Sensitive Keys

However, there are also a number of other things that make this a very useful gadget for those of you who need a compact, MIDI keyboard on steroids:
On the back you have:
- MIDI out for USB and Keyboard
- 1/4 Sustain Jack
- 1/4 Headphone Jack
- 1/4 Stereo Out Jack
- 1/4 Line In
- XLR Mic In
- Phantom Power
On the top you have:
- 8 Pan Knobs (don't ask, I haven't gotten that far yet)
- Gain Knob
- Headphone Knob
The thing you should focus on is the:
• 1/4 Line IN and the
• XLR Mic IN.
All you have to do is plug your guitar in one jack and your Mic in the other.
The OZone connects to your Mac via USB, so you're all set. Truly plug and play.

The real piece that your buying here is portability...the OZone is just over a foot long is very attractive, especially when you consider all the other capabilities.

The street price at $225 is a little more than double that of the Apple keyboard, but when you consider that if you bought:

$ 99 Apple M-Audio Keyboard
$ 80 1/4" Guitar Adapter
$179 TOTAL

$225 M-Audio OZone - with everything!

Matt Matt makes a good point about moving UP from the Apple M-Audio Keyboard -
THINK AHEAD, folks!
The KB comparison harkens to the age old Apple arguments over
Whether to get a simple G4 iBook OR a PowerBook?
• Price ($1000 difference); if you go cheap, how long before you yearn for more?
• Capability (do you need a SuperDrive, FW800, PCMCIA port, larger RAM, backlit KB, etc.)
• Size (12", 14", 15" or 17")

For GarageBand enthusiasts, think ahead a few years about that KB's future use:
• Garage - with the BAND, including a Guitar picker and sultry Singer, or
• Studio - with lots of jacks & plugs, mixing soundtracks
• Study/Bedroom - just a lonely keyboard solo and NO BAND

Lots of guys are not into the BAND scene and will never team up with other musicians or a singer, so the Apple M-Audio Keyboard is PERFECT!

But, if you are a social musician, a BAND person, or even a serious Studio geek, plan ahead and consider the other M-Audio offerings within the range of your pocketbook. Visit your local Guitar Store, and take along your 'BOOK to plug in.

Another thing to consider is GROWTH. When I got my G4 DP 1GHz with a SuperDrive, I'd never burned a DVD before, or edited a movie digitally, but it didn't make sense to downgrade to a ComboDrive, I wanted to grow & improve my capabilities. Can't do that with a Combo.
And, you can't grow very much with the basic Apple M-Audio Keyboard.

So, CHALLENGE yourself to intigrate other artists into a BAND sound for your Mac projects, which you can do more easily with a KB that is more capable than the basic M-Audio model offered by Apple. Then again, for $99 - solo is also cool! (Hell's bells, I can't play a lick of music, so I'm stuck with loops.)

If you do a search for places to buy M-Audio Keyboards, you will find a wild mix of capability costing from $139 to just over $500. Compare them to the Apple KB, then buy what's right for YOU! :cool:

[mtorbin]

Thank God someone saw my point. I was afraid there for a second that everyone missed my point.

And BTW, M-Audio is not the only MIDI controller manufacturer. There are tons of others out there. This is just ONE SOLUTION.

- MT

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by mtorbin
Thank God someone saw my point. I was afraid there for a second that everyone missed it.
And BTW, M-Audio is not the only MIDI controller manufacturer.
There are tons of others out there. This is just ONE SOLUTION.Matt, have you ever looked at the super Keyboards (Yamaha?) on sale at COSTCO? Are they MIDI capable? Some look 88 key.

Maybe someone should take an iBook or PB in with them to see if they work on Macs. (MIDI cable, etc.?)

VOLUNTEER: Any talent out there with a little curiosity willing to check out the keyboards at COSTCO (or, anywhere else) for us and report back? I see the basis for a MacAddict review brewing up here. ;)

My father played piano/theater organ by ear (lazy about reading music, except cheat sheets) so we always had a Baldwin grand piano (hell to keep tuned) or a 3 manual CONN Organ with a Leslie speaker in the house. Lots of music. Frankly, I think he would have loved to play on one of these new Yamaha electronic keyboards for the tactile response and excellent sound. And if he were still living, he'd love GarageBand on a Mac because it is miles beyond the little switches he had on an extra box that added drum tempo and even real chimes. Now all this stuff is in a pratically free (part of iLife) software program, and a $99 CD chuck full of wonderful extras. I bet he could have done some slick orchestrations as accompanyment to his keyboard for some great pop music. He was always writing new music and playing with arrangements of it. I miss that.

Hope Apple adds more instruments to the GarageBand collection. :)

[billyboy]

Originally posted by MacRAND
Matt makes a good point about moving UP from the Apple M-Audio Keyboard -
THINK AHEAD, folks!


Compare them to the Apple KB, then buy what's right for YOU! :cool:

On that basis, my musical ambitions are way above my talent, so I better send my Apple keyboard back and buy a stick and a tin lid.

[mtorbin]

macRand,

No, I haven't looked at those keyboards, but there's something that we all have to keep in mind no matter WHAT keyboard we buy. The whole reason that this keyboard is such hot news is because it's an actual MIDI controller (via USB). By that I mean it has the following:

1) Pitch Wheel
2) Modulation Wheel
3) Pressure Sensitive Keys
4) USB Interface

These are things that enhance the way the note is recorded via MIDI.

If the keyboard does not have these three things, then you might as well use the digital keyboard that comes with GB.

Also, for those of you who are underestimating the value of the analog recording, consider this:

The lowest costing QUALITY track recorder is easily at $200.... and that's not even digital. It doesn't get much better than this.

- MT

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by billyboy
On that basis, my musical ambitions are way above my talent, so I better send my Apple keyboard back and buy a stick and a tin lid. BillyBoy, at least you have TALENT. Healthy ambition cannot help but nurture talent.

Hey, I can't read music nor play an instrument. Forget the tin lid, go for the Apple KB and have fun musically. I envy you. BTW, the tin lid is mine and I'm still learning.

Has anyone compared GarageBand with Soundtrack that is now part of FinalCut Pro4?

I hear there are advantages to GarageBand not found in Soundtrack, what are they?

How do Apple's audio/sound programs compare to Smartsound's SonicFire and entry level Maestro which is used for adding music to iMovie soundtracks?

Are the plug-ins, loops, etc. in each of these programs interchangeable?

SIDE NOTE: As everyone knows, Apple has licensed (purchased?) the name GarageBand from owners - www.GarageBand.com who still have the right to use the name for their website.
But, did you know that if you type in GarbageBand instead, the GarageBand site still comes up?

MIDI THANKS to MTorbin for explaining the USB/MIDI interface for Mac and importance of the MIDI controller incorporated into M-Audio keyboards, including the $99 Apple offering, which is a good deal.
You is our expert, dude :cool: Word!

[mtorbin]

Ok, I guess I can begin with what I know which is Final Cut Pro. I've used Soundtrack which, to me, is more like Acid Pro. You add your loops and have fun. I do not believe that you can play INTO SoundTrack like you can with GB (Oops, I take that back. You CAN play in but I'm not sure that Soundtrack will act as a sound module like GB does if you're only using a MIDI controller).

I just noticed that Soundtrack also has a "Loop Utility" which, if I understand exactly what it does, is a really killer feature for those of us who have some poorly recorded audiio files (as in you can trip the clip to where you want it to loop).

GB is more like MOTU's Digital Performer, as in you can actually record live music that you play in. It totally handles MIDI as well as AIFF audio files and can create "songs" with combinations of the two.

If I had to choose one or the other, part or me right now would choose GB because I believe that it has more versitility.

Please understand that I haven't used Soundtrack nearly as much as GB, so what I'm saying here is speculation. I'd love to hear what others are saying on the subject.

- MT

[Sabon]

THIS IS NOT A FLAME. I seriously and non flamingly (I know that's not a word) want to know what I would be missing out on. In simple English please.

mtorbin - for some of us the $99 keyboard is going to be enough. And a 29 key keyboard isn't going to be enough. I want to play melody and chords at the same time. I'm thinking I might need a 61 key keyboard because 49 might not be enough. There is a reason why a piano has 88 keys.

Yes. I want to use it basically as a piano. I don't want to do one hand at a time or squeeze my fingers in.

But just in case. Instead of just telling us that we are going to be missing things. Tell us IN PLAIN ENGLISH what we will be missing if we don't get a higher end keyboard. Ignore for now the ability to plug in a guitar or microphone. Just the keyboard part. What would we be missing.

Just so you know. I've never played piano before and want to learn with both hands at the same time.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Sabon
I'm thinking I might need a 61 key keyboard because 49 might not be enough.
There is a reason why a piano has 88 keys.
What would we be missing?
Just so you know.
I've never played piano before and want to learn with both hands at the same time.
Not to steal MTorbin's flaming thunder, but since you have "never played a piano before", isn't this a question you should first ask the person who is going to teach you how to play? :)

Until you do learn to play, how is anyone going to know what you can do with 29, 44, 49, 54, 61 or 88 keys, while shifting octives to play with one or both hands at the same time?

Or, how can you possibly evaluate advice from someone who does play but is not your Teacher?

Otherwise, Sabon seems to know what he is talking about.

After you ask your Teacher, please share that recommendation with us.

Yes, I believe you when you say "there is a reason a piano has 88 keys", and I have often wondered why.
Please, tell us what is that reason, Sabon? Why not 80 or 96?

My favorite piano composition is the "Prelude in C sharp minor" by Sergei Rachmaninoff, which pleased my dad, who majored in music as a concert pianist. He once met Rachmaninoff after a live concert and discovered firsthand (no pun intended) that Steinway & Sons piano company of New York had built a very special piano for Rachmaninoff that had to do with a rather unique keyboard.
Would anyone happen to know what made Rachmaninoff's piano so special? :confused: (It's ok to guess.)

(This had nothing to do with Henry Engelhard Steinway introducing a novel string arrangement in 1855 called the overstrung scale.)

Hint: Though a giant in the performing arts, Sergei was a man of short stature; and, he always wore white cotton gloves before and after a performance.

WAS THAT FUN, OR WHAT? :p Want more?

Factoid: Rachmaninoff was fond of showing off for friends by playing elaborate compositions which never used more than 36 keys on the entire keyboard.
Can anyone guess which keys? (Limit your answer to "1" word.)

Observe: While an octave is 8, 36 is
11 keys more than your "25 key keyboard", MTorbin, and
25 keys less than your "61 key keyboard", Sabon.

(Did you do the Math? Simple!) Give up? :D

[Rower_CPU]

Can we go easy on the bold text? It's a notch under shouting in all caps and seems to me to be unnecessary.

If your points are good, you don't need bold faced words to make them for you. ;)

[jigglyjon]

i just wanted a cheap keyboard:)

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by jigglyjon
i just wanted a cheap keyboard:)
heh, exactly, the 49e is only £75 (inc. delivery) which me and my dad are splitting (only £37.50 each), we don't need anything fancy. He may want to put his guitar trough it at sometime, if he does, then we'll get something when the time comes.

[mtorbin]

Originally posted by Sabon
I want to use it basically as a piano. I don't want to do one hand at a time or squeeze my fingers in.

I can tell you from personal experience, that if you want to use it just to learn to play, you DO NOT need all 88 keys. What you need is FULL SIZE KEYS. 44 Keys is more than enough, trust me.

- MT

[mtorbin]

OK gang, my whole point in discussin this was simply to tell you that there are other options out there, so I guess let's cut to the hard questions (and some facts) and please understand this is ONLY my opinion:

Q: Is the $99 Keyboard offered by M-Audio a Decent Value?
A: I do NOT believe in my opinion that the keyboard is a spectacular deal. I believe that it will suffice until you grow tired of it or until your needs grows. I DO believe that it will do everything that Apple says it will do, just on a very consumer level. Please note however that this keyboard will NOT allow you to do anything BUT MIDI (as in NO audio).

Q: Do you have to purchase a keyboard by M-Audio or will any MIDI keyboard work?
A: Any MIDI keyboard will work, but if you don't want to have to purchase a MIDI interface, then you'll have to find one that has a USB port.

Q: What do I have to do in order to play my guitar / bass / vocal mic into GB?
A: You must get an adapter much like the one they offer at Apple or you can buy a device that has this built in (thus my suggestion of the OZone).

Q: Is the keyboard, the OZone, something that will work for everyone?
A: No, of course not. There are people who just want a simple controller that has no frills and for that the $99 keyboard works WELL ENOLUGH. There are also people who need very pro tools and for that they need something MUCH better then the OZone.

Q:What is MIDI and what does it stand for?
A: MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface. It is a standard that was developed a long time ago (I used to know by who by I forgot) so that digital instruments could communicate to one another. When you play MIDI into a computer, you are not recording sound, you are recording "actions" on a timeline. The computer then knows to "play" those actions (and sometimes with extra information such as how hard the note was hit, called an attack, and where the note was played on that timeline) at certain times on the timeline.

Q: What is General MIDI?
A: General MIDI is a standard that says something to the effect of "all pianos sounds will be numbers X through Y and all drums sounds will be only on sound Z..." What this does is that if you send a MIDI song to your friend and they don't have the same sounds as you, the song will GENERALLY sound the same (as in, the piano you used might not be the exact same, but it will be a piano sound). GarageBand makes use of General MIDI.

I hope this clears up some confusion. If there's anything else I can answer, please let me know.

- MT

[Sabon]

MacRand and mtorbin. I'd still seriously like to know, besides audio input and output, what keyboard wise, us beginners will miss out on with the basic keyboard.

Ok. It sounds like I only need 49 keys or I'll bypass the 61 (or more) keyboards. That I got.

But if I'm just going to be trying to play songs like as if it were a piano. What does the medium and high end keyboards have that people like me would wish we had? I'm serious about this and other than the number of keys this question hasn't been answered yet.

So far I only know that I need more keys than the oZone and not more than 49.

I don't have a teacher. I'm just going to use my mediocre memory from four years of band about 30 years ago playing trombone. I do remember enough about notes and I'm buying a something I saw on PBS for learning how to play piano.

I will be playing songs from song books like the Beatles complete song book, at least to start. Depending on how it goes I'll just have to see (or hear).

So again. I'll be getting a 49 key keyboard no matter what level. Other than audio in/out what piano type features will I be missing out on with the basic keyboard?

These are serious questions. Thanks in advance for your answers.

[mtorbin]

Sabon,

There is one thing that the higher end keyboards have that the lower end keyboards don't. It's called weighted keys. What this means is that the keys will actually feel like they are wood with ivory coatings (thus like a real piano).

Even the OZone doesn't have fully weighted keys, but then again, that's not something that will effect your playing. It will only affect your ENJOYMENT of your playing.

Most, if not all decent MIDI controllers will have the big three that I mentioned earlier.

As far as getting the full 88 keys PLUS these options, well, according to my buddy Tim (who sold me the OZone and is also one of the most talented keyboardists I know, "decent" will cost you roughly $500.

As far as the Beatles go, that music was written, mostly, for piano, which has the full 88 keys. You may have to make some adjustments to really play EVERYTHING that they have to offer.

- MT

[MacRAND]

Is no one going to even guess: :confused:

What made Rachmaninoff's Steinway piano so special? :)
or
Exactly which 36 keys out of the entire piano keyboard of 88 would Rachmaninoff use when showing off for friends? :D

MTorbin, I bet you know. ;)
Sabon, I bet you are smart enough to either figure it out or at least make a good guess. :p

The answer is either really obvious :rolleyes: or sufficient clues were given.
Please, somebody guess. :( Humor me.

[Elevin]

Seems to me like it would probably have to be just the black keys, seeing as how there are 36 of 'em on a full size piano. Changing subjects though, I think if you're gonna be trying to play full songs (from start to finish), 49 keys won't be enough in most circumstances (am I wrong about this?). I just bought m-audio's Radium61, (as the name implies, it has 61 keys). The 61 isn't enough for all songs, but I can play most things on it ok. Plus it's got a button for shifting up or down up to three octaves, so as long as the song doesn't span more than 5 octaves i'm ok. For me, 61 keys is "almost enough", and 49 keys would just get ridiculous. Of course I was looking for something I could play songs on from start to finish, which it looks like isn't what everyone is going for. The radium61 runs about $200 new, so about twice as much as the keystation 49e. Its got a whole bunch of knobs and sliders that are probably useful too (haven't really played around with em yet). I seems ridiculous to compare it to the ozone, because they serve two different purposes. Anywho, there's my 2 cents, hope it helps someone.

-Ezra

[Sabon]

Thanks mtorbin, MacRand, and Elevin for your answers.

mtorbin - that would be cool to have an electronic keyboard that felt like real piano keys. Hmmm, I really liked your answer about the song books. Now I'm leaning more to the 61 key keyboard.

Elevin - I'll agree with you that it only has the black keys. Sounds like a great answer to me. And I like your answer about the 61 key keyboards too. I'm not ready to plunk down $500 yet. If I stick with it I'll move up.

I did expect to find out more about what I'd be missing by not buying something other than a low end keyboard. I guess all those other options are for controlling sounds and such with GarageBand takes care of any (at least I think it does).

[Elevin]

Here's what I think the basic differences are:
Keystation49e Vs Radium61: Radium has more keys (Completely necessary in my book!) and it has 8 knobs and sliders (nice extras, but I really don't NEED them). Besides that they look to be the same.

Radium VS Ozone: Radium agains has more keys (for this reason I, personally, couldn't even consider the ozone). The Ozone has some knobs like the Radium61.
As mtorbin mentioned, the Ozone has some other cool stuff:
- 1/4 Sustain Jack
- 1/4 Headphone Jack
- 1/4 Stereo Out Jack
- 1/4 Line In
- XLR Mic In
I don't need these, cause I'm just playing the piano. I don't plan on plugging in a mic or a guitar. You pay extra for these. If you need that interface but want a bigger keyboard, just buy the bigger keyboard and get a seperate interface for that other stuff. Sabon- It sounds like all you're looking for is a keyboard to play. I'd tell you to get the Radium61. It's really a nice little keyboard. The Ozone is right for some people, but it doesn't fit your needs. And since 49 keys aren't enough to play through most songs, the logical step up is 61.

-Ezra

[Sabon]

Elevin - great post!!!

Actually I'm going to learn both Piano and guitar. But I didn't want to confuse anyone by bringing both into the same equation. Too many people would have thought that the oZone would be best for me, not realizing that the lack of enough keys rules out the oZone. Now if there were an oZone with 61 (or 88) keys that would be different.

I believe you are right about the Radium61 being the best option for me with a separate 1/4" audio to USB controller for microphone and guitar.

Just a note for anyone that might be curious. I'm not going to be trying to learn how to play classical music. There is a way to learn how to play called "fakey" which uses chord symbols like for a guitar for the left hand of the piano player. Check out this link - http://www.scottthepianoguy.com/index.php?current=home . This is pretty much for recreational use only. At least to start with.

[Sabon]

NOTE: I do NOT have any financial connection or any other connection to this other than seeing him on PBS and that I'm buying his book. I do not know the guy nor does he know me. I'm just putting this here in case someone else wants to learn non classical piano.

From his site:

Play Piano in a Flash! Book #16133

For less than the cost of one private piano lesson, this book will provide readers with years of musical enjoyment. If truth be known, there is another way to learn how to play piano rather than going to weekly lessons and spending thousands of dollars in the process.

The secret is learning to play the way the pros play. Learning to play in that style is enormously simpler than traditional classical piano lessons. Even better, it takes an absolute minimum amount of note reading ability.

Best of all, your tour guide for this adventure, Scott Houston, forces you to have fun along the way!

Is this book going to prepare the reader for a career as a concert pianist? Absolutely not!

However, if you simply want to play some piano for the simple goal of enjoying yourself, then get ready to knock a lifelong dream from your "to-do" list. Have fun!

Details

Weight:Ê
0.60 lbs

Price:
$ 12.95 (CAN$ 17.62)

[White Hawk]

Two thing's I'd like to mention, if you just want to plug your guitar in your Mac you don't need to spend $80, I spent £1 on a 1/4 to 1/8 Mic adapter, that's all I needed.

Also if you really are not going to learn the Piano and just want a way to play the software instruments in GarageBand, get a free little program called MidiKeys, no setup needed, just make it appear always on top and click on it to be in focus and away you go, it's enough to do basic stuff using your QWERTY keyboard.

[jadam]

What about those 61key MIDI Keyboards they have at radioshack, how are those?

And the 49key mini keyboards also, how much smaller are mini keys compared to regular keys?

[Sabon]

I got REALLY lucky. I went to Guitar Center on Westlake Ave in Seattle to get my guitar fixed (replace audio jack that's busted) and am having them do a tune-up on it too. About $85 total with new strings.

Anyway, while I was there I went and checked out the keyboards and saw an Evolution MK-361C. MSRP is $299. Their price was $239. But they didn't have any new unopened of these. Just one display model and one that had been returned.

I told them (honestly) that I wasn't extremely comfortable taking home a model that had already been opened. The people that brought it back could have dropped it or something and it might not work right.

They told me they could give me a discount. How about $179 and change including tax. If it didn't work. Just bring it back and they would find an unopened one and I could exchange it.

Needless to say I bought it, brought it home, turned on GarageBand, plugged the USB cable to the keyboard and my iMac and it worked instantly without installing any drivers or anything. COOL!

I grabbed a Beatles song book that I've had and with an hour was able to plunk out the melody of one song and even play a few chords. I still suck. What do you expect for just under an hour. But I'm on my way...

[Sabon]

One confession. Part of the reason I was able to play that fast is that a long time ago (back in the late 60s and early 70s I was in band and played Trombone and also borrowed my two sisters clarinet and saxophone and sort of taught myself how to play notes on them. So I can somewhat read sheet music. Or I should say it is coming back to me.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Sabon
One confession.
Part of the reason I was able to play that fast is that a long time ago ...
I was in band and played Trombone and ...
sort of taught myself how to play notes on them.
So I can somewhat read sheet music.
Or, I should say it is coming back to me. Sabon, you are a guitar picking, key thickling, note reading, Mac loving, creative animal. After all is said and done, the Ozone is too small, an 88 key too big, and the Apple's M-Audio KB too basic for you because your talent, which by now is obvious to everyone in this thread, is too advanced for basic.

What MTorbin, myself, and many of others have been saying is that if you can afford to invest a little more than $99 in a very basic KB, do so. You should buy a model not based upon your current abilities, but based on where you are likely to be a year or so from now.

Several years ago when I bought a G4 with my first SuperDrive, I didn't know how to burn a DVD, didn't own a digital camera or a DV camcorder, had only edited linearly using VHS and Hi8 tape (which sucked big time, turning me off), and I was intimidated by the learning curve for Primiere, Avid or Final Cut Pro, and the ungodly price of all the software and hardware to get into NLE on a Mac. But, I figured that I needed to get my digital feet wet, and test the waters. Today, I regularly download DV from my camcorder and digital photos from my camera or its CompactFlash card, edit with iMovie and burn finished product with iDVD. Plus, since prices have come down and capability gone up, I'm learning DVD Studio Pro 2 so I can burn from my non-SuperDrive iBook onto a LeCie d2 DVD-R/RW while on the road (no G4) and even how to edit (bought a book, page by page, chapter by chapter - it's coming...) with FCP4 including fancy Soundtrack.

Now, Sabon, if an untalented dummy like me can experience such progress in digital media over just 2 years knowing only about 35mm photography JUST BECAUSE I was brave enough to get a SuperDrive (the way of the future ;) ) with my new Macintosh, I believe you have at least as much potential as that.

Since we all know (since your dramatic confessions) that you have musical talent, the expectation (you humble rascal) is that in no time at all you will be going nuts over GarageBand and its capability, creating not only piano tracks for your own musical compositions, but adding guitar accompanyment, and maybe even some vocal, all because your church or your kid's school had a movie project for you to help with that needs some simple background music and you suddenly realized - "hey, I can do that!"

So, don't limit yourself to the basics, plan on growth. :D And, get rockin'.
Isn't that why we love Macs? I can hear (and see) it now--

Sabon's first musical DVD with video - "Jazz Confessions of a Closet Guitar Picker" by Sabon and his digital orchestra.

[Sabon]

Hi MacRAND. Come on over and listen to me peck at keys before you decide I have talent or that I'm a musician. Yes I'm trying. I sucked the least in my section in band. That doesn't mean I was good. But again. I'm trying. That's all I can do.

So far I hit about half the right notes. I'm playing out of time most of the time. And only once in awhile when they have only C, G, and F chords I can sort of hit chords when I'm playing (which puts me further out of timing). But they. My cats and wife can't hear me because I have headphones on, so they haven't run screaming out of the house.

LOL

[alset]

Originally posted by mtorbin
The nice thing about the OZone, other than the fact that it has everything you'd want in a controller, is that it also has two 1/4 inch line inputs (i.e. for your guitar and/or mic).

Weak inputs. Better to get an Oxygen 8 with a real audio interface and a pre-amp or a DI box.

Dan

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Sabon
Hi MacRAND. Come on over and listen to me peck at keys before you decide I have talent or that I'm a musician. Be carefuly what you wish for! I absolutely love seafood, especially Seattle clam chowder, including digging for fresh clams along the shore (I know secret spots where fishnets are buried in the sand; lots of clams!).

I was discharged from the USMC in December 1969 from Marine Barracks, Bremerton, WA. (I had been Personnel Admin Chief aboard Marine Detachment, USS KITTY HAWK for 2.5 years. The KITTY HAWK bent a screw running over a Soviet sub playing stupid war games with us in the Tonkin Gulf in 1969, requiring us to head for Dry Docks at Bremerton for substantial repairs. Tried to fix it in Sasebo, Japan, but it didn't work. Now that was good liberty.)

Know and love Seattle, but I must admit I was never colder in my life than that December...Brrrr! Comes from being a thin blooded Arizona Desert Rat. Nam was never really too hot for me, but damn humid; don't miss that.
I've been back several times in the last decade, love Seattle.

Tempting, Sabon, very tempting. ;) I always travel with my iBook, some DVDs, and BOSE Noise Canelling Headphones. :p

[Sabon]

Hey MacRAND. Before anyone wants to come over and hear me play I probably should get better than I am. Yes my wife can recognize a song. But that isn't saying much yet.

I you really want to be punished I can record how I play and put it up here. Now it's _your_ turn to be careful. lol

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by Sabon
Before anyone wants to come over and hear me play I probably should get better than I am.Can't afford either the time or the airfare right now, but I'm with you in spirit.
Sure, record an audition clip and post it here or on your .Mac sight or somewhere. (Boy, is the pressure on or what!) :)

Update: 2 hours ago I was in the Phoenix Apple Store and saw an M-Audio keyboard basking in the sunlight. Also, they had an "edirol" (spelling?) keyboard the same size but tons of other features, switches, and dohickies. They also had an impressive set of 3 Kipsch speakers that sounded great (stereo + subwoofer).

As I've pointed out in other threads, starting with the last week of each month -- the manager puts a whole bunch of "refresh" items (returned) on a cart and the classroom bench at pretty good discount, G5 dual 2.0 for $2,599, some 12" and one 15" PB w/ComboDrive, Canon digital cameras, and a bunch of odds and ends.

So, visit the Apple Store near you for details...(do I sound like an ad?)

Sabon, keep practicing, soon you'll be perfect...

[mtorbin]

Originally posted by White Hawk
Two thing's I'd like to mention, if you just want to plug your guitar in your Mac you don't need to spend $80, I spent £1 on a 1/4 to 1/8 Mic adapter, that's all I needed.

Also if you really are not going to learn the Piano and just want a way to play the software instruments in GarageBand, get a free little program called MidiKeys, no setup needed, just make it appear always on top and click on it to be in focus and away you go, it's enough to do basic stuff using your QWERTY keyboard.

For those of you who have not recorded music with a MIDI guitar, let me tell you this. You'd better have talent out your ass to get those drums to sound decent coming from a guitar controller.

My point is, if had to go with one controller, make it the keyboard, NOT the guitar. You'll get more versatility out of the keyboard than you will the guitar, trust me. I have experience with this. (and I say this as a guitar player)

- MT

[White Hawk]

I didn't mention anything about MIDI guitar's now did I? I was talking about plugging in your real guitar into your Mac, for just doing that you don't need any "controller' between the guitar and the Mac, just a adapter to change the connection to be able to plug it in the Line In which costs hardly anything.

And as for making guitar sound's with a keyboard, well as good as the software guitars are in GarageBand (and they are, tried some Dire Straits MIDI's and the guitars was quite a bit better than expected) if you want real you can't do it with a keyboard.

And if you can't afford or are just interested in playing with more than one key at a time the software instruments so you can do your own loops or not so complex tracks then you have the option of using your QWERTY keyboard as a musical input for them using MidiKeys.

I just think there might be a lot of people buying a musical keyboard when all they want to do is simple stuff that can be done using MidiKeys.

Matt, take a breather, it's ok. :-)

[mtorbin]

White Hawk,

I appreciate your input... only if you had read me right. I was refering to making drum sounds with your guitar.

- MT

[White Hawk]

And why on earth would you want to do that? I don't even know if that is possible in GarageBand, but using the software drum's with MidiKeys is real easy. :-)

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by edesignuk
I ordered a keyboard yesterday, eta early march!!!! :eek: I couldn't believe my eyes!
w00t! Just got an email saying that it had been despatched today :D Looks like their origional ETA was way out :D :D :D :D