iTunes downloads top 50 million

[whooleytoo]

Apple today announced iTunes downloads have topped 50 million, with the current weekly download rate being 2.5 million per week.

(See press release (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040315/sfm063_1.html) )

[javabear90]

nice. very nice.... what was the dead line for 100 mil??

[wordmunger]

nice. very nice.... what was the dead line for 100 mil??
I think it was supposed to be by the 1-year anniversary, which would be April 28. Since that's about 6 and a half weeks away, it's not looking too good. At this rate, they'd only hit 66.25 million by then.

[stoid]

nice. very nice.... what was the dead line for 100 mil??

Hopefully not until the end of July. :D ;)

[miloblithe]

April 28th eh? Maybe Jobs phrased the 100 million goal in a way that would allow including the Pepsi promo downloads (supposedly the 50 million number doesn't include them). That'd get Apple closer to 100 million. Probably still not enough though.

[stoid]

April 28th eh? Maybe Jobs phrased the 100 million goal in a way that would allow including the Pepsi promo downloads (supposedly the 50 million number doesn't include them). That'd get Apple closer to 100 million. Probably still not enough though.

Yeah, I read in a USAToday article that they won't been able to release Pepsi cap numbers until after the promotion. Which means that iTMS is getting 2.5 million REGULAR paid songs a week. How many iPods have they shipped? I wonder if the iTMS will ever be selling more songs in a week than iPod's sold that week can hold? :D

At 2.5 million a week, that's a hair over 4 songs per second!

[settledown]

Anyone got the stats for the other music download sites? napster? dell?

[dukemeiser]

And it will only get better.:D

[Counterfit]

WOW! :eek:

[duce]

How many article were written praising Dell and Napster saying they will over come ITMS? And ITMS will wither away. Soo much fot experts. :D

[eSnow]

With over 50 million songs already downloaded and an additional 2.5 million songs being downloaded every week, it's increasingly difficult to imagine others ever catching up with iTunes.

Sure Steve, we understand. We are a bit scared too that Apple is being locked out of the party it created again - but the way Apple stubbornly insists on not letting others rebrand iTMS or selling .wma is not helping.

[ThomasJefferson]

'O well, I would prefer to read, "Apple sells 50 million G5 powerbooks", but you have to take what you can get. :o

[jxyama]

wow, 2.5 million a week after almost a year (for Mac users)/6 months (for Windows users) that would not be bought if not for iTMS...

...and the RIAA execs think their time is better spent on suing mp3 sharers rather than developing better ways to distribute their product... :rolleyes:

[MovieGuy]

Sure Steve, we understand. We are a bit scared too that Apple is being locked out of the party it created again - but the way Apple stubbornly insists on not letting others rebrand iTMS or selling .wma is not helping.


Ummm....HP? Probably the biggest partnership they could make. Last I heard, a nice little blue iPod and even an HP branded iTunes are in the works.

[AirUncleP]

Just think what the numbers would be if Apple cut the prices on the entire iPod line by $50. I don't think it'll happpen....but it'd be nice.

[stoid]

Anyone got the stats for the other music download sites? napster? dell?

Napster is the only one that has remotely successful numbers. They recently announced 5 million songs at a 15 million dollar loss I think. The only way they are going to stay in business is if MS throws their marketing weight behind it, otherwise Apple is alone on the top of the pile by quite a bit.

What I would like to hear is numbers of unique accounts. It hardly even impresses me anymore to hear that Apple is killing everyone number-wise. The question for the future is if Apple has more customers. Otherwise we'll be seeing a repeat of 20 years ago when Apple dominated an early market but couldn't grow with it. How mature is the legal music download service? Will numbers eventually climb to 100 million a week for the market with Apple still own selling 2.5 million of them?

[Snowy_River]

Sure Steve, we understand. We are a bit scared too that Apple is being locked out of the party it created again - but the way Apple stubbornly insists on not letting others rebrand iTMS or selling .wma is not helping.


What?

With Napster recently having reported crossing the 5 Million song mark (and, reportedly, being the first to do so), this puts iTMS about an order of magnitude farther along than any of the competition. How is Apple being locked out? Why should Apple let others rebrand iTMS? Why should Apple pay the royalties to MS to allow them to run the admittedly inferior codec of WMA?

Give me a break... :rolleyes:

[jxyama]

... selling .wma is not helping.

other parts of your post, i can see the argument for, but the lack of .wma is a non-issue, i'd say.

you can't use iTMS without iTunes (windows or Mac) and iTunes play iTMS songs (duh). --> anyone who can buy iTMS songs can play AAC.

so why do we need .wma? :confused:

if you don't have an AAC portable player, you convert to mp3.
if you insist on using .wma, then you are probably better off using other services... and the indication is that those services are yet to catch up to iTMS. i think the logic should be for those other services to adopt AAC, not for iTMS to adopt WMA..?

[Photorun]

Rockin'! Go Apple! Does this count the freebies Pepsi is giving away?

[jxyama]

Just think what the numbers would be if Apple cut the prices on the entire iPod line by $50. I don't think it'll happpen....but it'd be nice.

considering the success of supposedly "overpriced" iPod Mini, i don't think there's any reason for apple to lower the price on iPod...

let's face it, we all want price drops on iPod because we want more stuff for cheap - we don't really care if there's any good reason other than that? :D

[gwuMACaddict]

Rockin'! Go Apple! Does this count the freebies Pepsi is giving away?

i'm pretty sure the top of the thread says no

this is definitely very cool, i bought my first song a few days ago :D

[Belly-laughs]

Anyone got the stats for the other music download sites? napster? dell?

Not so well...

[TrenchMouth]

I think this is good news all around. There is an article on wired.com today about how great the iPod mini is, and then this great news. The publicity machine is hard to stop now.

Funny to think that so far 50mil have been sold and double that amount are being given away. I know they don't plan to see even half of the Pepsi songs being used, but still, it's a nice program and people should take more advantage. I know I have.

As for .wma...ha, I could care less if Apple never even gives it a second thought. I used to have a wintel box that I used for some games and such and I remember ripping CDs in what was supposed to be "CD quality" .wma files. They sounded like 3rd generation 128kps MP3s, which is to say crap. That's really my only experience with it however, I am sure it sounds better at higher bit rates, but I don't care, I like my AAC.

[spinko]

Crossing 50 million songs is a major milestone for iTunes and the emerging digital music era,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “With over 50 million songs already downloaded and an additional 2.5 million songs being downloaded every week, it’s increasingly difficult to imagine others ever catching up with iTunes.”

Apple, don't be so arrogant. If you loose your imagination others will push you aside again and profit from your "insanly great idea".

[wordmunger]

Apple, don't be so arrogant. If you loose your imagination others will push you aside again and profit from your "insanly great idea".
I seriously doubt they are that arrogant--Jobs is too smart for that. However, it's in their interest to be perceived as *the* online music service. Apple wants people to believe that other services are only "bit players," and so they should stick with ITMS. People have to believe a business is in it for the long haul--especially when the product requires extended customer service, like the ITMS does in order for its DRM to work.

[ryanw]

I think it was supposed to be by the 1-year anniversary, which would be April 28. Since that's about 6 and a half weeks away, it's not looking too good. At this rate, they'd only hit 66.25 million by then.

I think those 100 million can include the pepsi freebies. This number of 50 million doesn't include the pepsi 100 million give away.

[micvog]

April 28th eh? Maybe Jobs phrased the 100 million goal in a way that would allow including the Pepsi promo downloads (supposedly the 50 million number doesn't include them). That'd get Apple closer to 100 million. Probably still not enough though.

Does anyone have an idea of how the Pepsi promo is going? Assuming a 5% redemption rate, that would be 5 million songs BUT Pepsi still appears to have some logistical issues. I have not seen a single iTMS cap here on the left coast. :mad:

[GeeYouEye]

Sure Steve, we understand. We are a bit scared too that Apple is being locked out of the party it created again - but the way Apple stubbornly insists on not letting others rebrand iTMS or selling .wma is not helping.Dude, you're not good at sarcasm. Try a ;) at the end.

[jettredmont]

I think it was supposed to be by the 1-year anniversary, which would be April 28. Since that's about 6 and a half weeks away, it's not looking too good. At this rate, they'd only hit 66.25 million by then.

The 100M goal is for April 28, the first year of iTMS.

That goal *does* include Pepsi numbers, and the current tally does *not*. Looks like we'll need around 33% redemption from Pepsi to hit the 100M mark by the deadline ... which may or may not be plausible (it's the upper range of expectations, I believe).

[stoid]

The thing is, I'm not certain Steve set the 100 million mark is seriousness, or if that was set just to set the stage for the Pepsi giveaway. It'd be great for Steve to announce conclusive numbers from the Pepsi giveaway and at the same time announce the next big deal with Mc Donald's or whoever. As long as Apple keeps the ball rolling, they'll stay on top.

Any numbers on how many songs they have? How does the iTMS selection compare with other stores? I know iTMS has gaps, but do all the stores have the same gaps?

[dongmin]

What's encouraging is that the pace is actually picking up.

4/28 - 9/03 (130 days): 10 mil -- 0.5 mil a week
9/03 - 12/12 (100 days): 15 mil -- 1.0 mil a week
12/12 - 3/15 (95 days): 25 mil -- 1.8 mil a week

Now Apple is saying 2.5 mil a week. We could be hitting 3 mil a week soon.

I wonder what's accounting for the increasing numbers. More windows users? More iPods being sold? Third-party crossovers (HP, AOL, Pepsi)? Better advertising?

[stoid]

What's encouraging is that the pace is actually picking up.

4/28 - 9/03 (130 days): 10 mil -- 0.5 mil a week
9/03 - 12/12 (100 days): 15 mil -- 1.0 mil a week
12/12 - 3/15 (95 days): 25 mil -- 1.8 mil a week

I wonder what's accounting for the increasing numbers. More windows users? More iPods being sold? Third-party crossovers (HP, AOL, Pepsi)? Better advertising?

I think it's greater mind share, and a growing market. As more and more people are willing to try out downloading music legally, more and more people are recognizing that the iTMS is the way to go. People are seeing that Apple offers a quality product and is choosing them over the .wma opponents. The silhouette people need to be given their due, as they undoubtedly have had a big part in this. They are being parodied now they are so popular.

[eSnow]

What?
With Napster recently having reported crossing the 5 Million song mark (and, reportedly, being the first to do so), this puts iTMS about an order of magnitude farther along than any of the competition. How is Apple being locked out? Why should Apple let others rebrand iTMS? Why should Apple pay the royalties to MS to allow them to run the admittedly inferior codec of WMA?

I say.
iTMS has been online how long? Also an order of magnitude longer than Napster? Maybe not exactly, but not too far off either.

Apple is trying to achieve the impossible:
- Dominating the mp3-player market (at least the market for premium players) AND
- dominating the music download market AND
- pushing AAC as the standard for compressed audio.

If they were good, they could hit one of the three. Two out of three if they are really good. But all three is impossible, there is too much money to be made that other companies would not attack sooner or later.

Apple could either let other companies rebrand the store, licencense the AAC/Fairplay combo or open up to .wma. Doing nothing like this is foolish and will end just the way the closed Mac-Platform ended.

[david_r_p]

Don't get me wrong. I love iTunes and my iPod, but I'm really not that interested in Apple's sequential milestones (10,000 songs, 1,000,000 songs, etc, etc). So what? They have a PR department that issues a press release everytime someone at Apple does even the marginal thing nowadays. I would love to hear something more substantial than sales drivel.

I guess it shows they haven't f@*ck$D the mp3 market up yet though...

Please, let's get some new hardware... No one wants G4-anything anymore, and a 21st century Walkman isn't my idea of revolutionary.

It seems like the pipeline has been dry for some time...

[nagromme]

The 100 million goal INCLUDED Pepsi downloads, while the 50 million # does not. And since Pepsi bottle distribution has lagged behind by about a month, I'd expect that 100 million goal to be a month late as well. (I have no clue whether Pepsi downloads could EVER make up the difference--sounds unlikely to me.)

In any case the goal was far beyond Apple's previous goals--it's not something the "need" to have happen.

[virividox]

50 mil... nice :D

go apple

[BurntCalc]

I say.
iTMS has been online how long? Also an order of magnitude longer than Napster? Maybe not exactly, but not too far off either.

Apple is trying to achieve the impossible:
- Dominating the mp3-player market (at least the market for premium players) AND
- dominating the music download market AND
- pushing AAC as the standard for compressed audio.

If they were good, they could hit one of the three. Two out of three if they are really good. But all three is impossible, there is too much money to be made that other companies would not attack sooner or later.

Apple could either let other companies rebrand the store, licencense the AAC/Fairplay combo or open up to .wma. Doing nothing like this is foolish and will end just the way the closed Mac-Platform ended.

You know what they say... Aim for the stars and the moon... I think Apple is playing this very smart. Here's why:

By putting songs at a $.99 price point, they have already aggessively outpriced anything the competition can come up with (this is a Dell tactic hard at work). Apple has effectively doomed the music download business right from the beginning.

Then the iPod... Well, everyone still wants one. Apple has their finger on the pulse of hip culture. And they play it very well. All they have to do is refresh the image with a new breakthru every once in awhile, and they continue to be the best.

AAC/Fairplay... A lot of debate here. Should there be one standard? Maybe. If the iPod was more compatible with WMA, would it help it's sales? Most definitely. But the issue isn't one of percieved hurdles, but of actual realized obstacles that hamper your user experience. If someone wants to switch to iTunes from another service, they'll have a hard time moving their music library. BUT, by the same token, the reverse effect is also true. Most people have never had the chance to even discover this because the industry is so nacent (ie. they just don't care).

My point is that what we'll find in the future is a very segmented music industry that sees very little migration between service choices. iTunes/iPod are just locking in their market early.

-John

[jxyama]

I say.
iTMS has been online how long? Also an order of magnitude longer than Napster? Maybe not exactly, but not too far off either.

Apple is trying to achieve the impossible:
- Dominating the mp3-player market (at least the market for premium players) AND
- dominating the music download market AND
- pushing AAC as the standard for compressed audio.

If they were good, they could hit one of the three. Two out of three if they are really good. But all three is impossible, there is too much money to be made that other companies would not attack sooner or later.

apple has businesses other than music sales to offset any losses. napster really doesn't. so if their music business doesn't make money on their own, they are pretty much dead. also, because this is such a rapidly developing market, apple has a huge advantage being the first. i don't know how napster's early numbers compare to apple's early numbers. but i would not bet on napster improving their sales linearly with the time they've been around.

one of the biggest reasons iTMS is as popular as it is because of the tight integration between iPod and iTMS. in iPod, apple had/has the best mp3 player in the market and they added iTMS later. so i think they have the base to achieve the first two objectives you listed. and third is pretty much moot right now. most consumers don't care what format music players use. if they can play the format, it's a non-issue. because iTMS is only accessible from iTunes, every user who purchases from iTMS is guaranteed to be able to play it on their computer. the only problematic consumers are the one with mp3 only portable players.

you are right, apple is basically saying "if you want our music on the go, get our portable player." but when that portable player is (and was) pretty much the best and the most hip one out there, who will complain?

as long as iPod remains the best portable music player out there, iTMS/codec success will follow...

[jxyama]

By putting songs at a $.99 price point, they have already aggessively outpriced anything the competition can come up with (this is a Dell tactic hard at work). Apple has effectively doomed the music download business right from the beginning.

very good point. 99 cents per song basically forced the market in apple's favor: that music downloading service is not very profitable on its own right. (of course, it also happens to be about the amount of money most of us are willing to pay for a song...)

you really have to have complementary hardware sales...

if some service wants to knock iTMS/apple off, they will need to start by trying to knock iPod off...

[ITR 81]

Pepsi is predicting around 30-40% of all Pepsi caps being redeemed by April 30th.

This is according to a Super at our local Pepsi bottler.

So Apple really only needs to sell around 65 mil to make the 100 mark if Pepsi's prediction holds true.

Oh yeah if your market had another regional promo running it supersedes the iTunes cap promo.

[mrsebastian]

go apple go! napster just isn't going make it. how can anyone make money on such low margins? well maybe walmart, 'cause they obviously know how to squeeze the copper out of every cent, or they wouldn't be as successful as they are. it's all about volume and for once in our m$ dominated world, apple is kickin ass!

[winmacguy]

Just think what the numbers would be if Apple cut the prices on the entire iPod line by $50. I don't think it'll happpen....but it'd be nice.

I dont think cutting the price is necessary to increase sales, more like increase production to satisfy the current demand. Particularly with the iPod mini which pre sold 100,000 prior to its release, that doesnt account for the rest of the shoppers who turned up to Apple stores wanting to buy it.

[vpalvarez]

Apple is trying to achieve the impossible:
- Dominating the mp3-player market (at least the market for premium players) AND
- dominating the music download market AND
- pushing AAC as the standard for compressed audio.

If they were good, they could hit one of the three. Two out of three if they are really good. But all three is impossible, there is too much money to be made that other companies would not attack sooner or later.

Apple could either let other companies rebrand the store, licencense the AAC/Fairplay combo or open up to .wma. Doing nothing like this is foolish and will end just the way the closed Mac-Platform ended.


What no one has said is that if apple does either of the first two items on this list they are almost garanteed the third. It won't be instant and there will always be copy-cats, but it will eventually happen. The point was made that Apple has other business outside of the music is excellent but even more is that they have a load of money, and very profitable products. Most of the things that the other companies sell aren't as profitable so the risk is greater to innovate. That is where the future leader will be defined, in the innovation, and becasue Apple is one of the only companies with the means to do so the future looks bright.

Off the subject HP was the world leader in PC sales in Q4, with increasing numbers, while the #2 (Dell) had decreasing numbers. HP is the best innovator in the PC bunch, and don't get mad but they probably innovate more than Apple. Apple is in a good position by choosing to partner with HP purely for their innovation. An example.. a group of HP employees designed a mp3 player that was so different and better it is called the DJammer and would probably be for the DJs or for a potential ipod pro audience. I'll fing a link to he article for the DJammer a post it.


GO Apple

Link:
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Mat_Hans/research/djammer/index.htm

[winmacguy]

Rockin'! Go Apple! Does this count the freebies Pepsi is giving away?

Quote"Steve Jobs specifically stated, in explaining how Apple would hit the 100 million songs sold mark, "What are we going to do [to sell 100 million songs in a year]? We're going to give away a hundred million songs. You heard me right. We are so proud to be partnering with Pepsi on this... So, a hundred million songs by April 28, 2004 - this is our goal - we're going to Windows [with an iTunes version], partner with AOL, ...and we're going to giveaway 100 million songs with Pepsi... So, we think we've got a really good shot at selling 100 million legal downloads the first year." See it for yourself during Jobs' presentation from the Moscone Center in San Francisco during Apple's "iTunes for Windows Introduction" on October 16, 2003 here."

Clearly, Jobs intends to count the Pepsi redemptions. None of these redemptions is included in today's announcement of over 50 million songs sold. It is not April 28, 2004, yet. Fried is wrong to pretend that Apple has not hit its goal. No one can know until April 28, 2004 and all of the songs sold are counted.
End quote.

[Wonder Boy]

as much as i'm interested in seeing apple succeed, i enjoy even more hearing about other music stores fail.

[AndrewMT]

Please, let's get some new hardware... No one wants G4-anything anymore, and a 21st century Walkman isn't my idea of revolutionary.

It seems like the pipeline has been dry for some time...

I have to agree with you. I'm going to be very disappointed if the great products Steve mentioned were going to be released this year are all music devices. Does Apple know how many people are eagerly awaiting (with their credit cards in hand) the release of a G5 powerbook. At this point, when the powerbook is released, it better have an all new design and an innovative cooling process.

[macnews]

It is always nice to hear when Apple is doing well. I don't think Apple needs to make ITMS .wma compatible. They might want to make the iPod and mini .wma compatible. I am not an audio expert, but if .wma is so inferior to ACC, then let the people decide for themselves.

A couple of other ideas I think Apple should do to help push both iPods and ITMS:

1. Give away 5 free songs with each iPod purchased. Granted the ITMS exists to drive iPod sales, but with the growing volume ITMS could generate enough $$$ to be self sustaining. If Apple is making $0.05 off each sale, a number I think is conservative and possible, then they have made $2.5 million off the ITMS this first year so far. Not bad! And for something like this, most of the $$$ is associated with start up costs. It shouldn't take much to keep it going, updating software from time to time, on this sort of a budget. Plus you grow those numbers where you are actually selling 100 million a year (actual sales) and $5 mil should be enough to run the department if managed correctly.

2. I think they should re-brand ACC as MP4. If I am remembering correctly, when ACC was first announced it was also called MP4. So, if this is correct, then my suggestion works - if I'm wrong then ignore what I am about to say. The market, esp on the PC side, likes increasing numbers. It is also easy to sell or explain. A majority of the downloading market knows what mp3 is, you tell them you have mp4 and most will assume it is a better version of mp3. You could make this argument that ACC (mp4) is better in some ways to mp3. First is legal downloads and the ability to rip (or save down to) mp3. Second, mp3 is seen as a quasi open format - at least not one "owned" by M$. Apple should push on this, since they are now big in to open source, as "we don't 'own' mp4 (ACC) format. We just think it is the best in terms of quality and security for online legal downloads." I think this would get them far and be more identifyable with the masses.

[nuckinfutz]

I say.
iTMS has been online how long? Also an order of magnitude longer than Napster? Maybe not exactly, but not too far off either.
QUOTE]

Grrrrrrrrrrr I hate when people use this wrong. eSnow an Order of Magnitude is an exponent. Meaning LARGE jumps. like say 10 to 100. It absolutely makes no sense in the context you've chosen. Apple hasn't had a lead over the competition that is anywhere close to a magnitude.

[QUOTE]Apple could either let other companies rebrand the store, licencense the AAC/Fairplay combo or open up to .wma. Doing nothing like this is foolish and will end just the way the closed Mac-Platform ended.

Earth to eSnow!!! The HP deal IS a rebranding and licensing of the ipod. Good God man what planet have you been on the last month. Why should they open up to the competitors format when they're the market leader? You are making no sense.


We really won't have a clear picture of the whole scene until everybody is worldwide. All the presumptions and pontifications about Apple supporting WMA or licensing their tech is a little premature. WMA is definitely out though. Winning is impossible if you're paying your competitor in multiple ways. I think you'll see iTunes reach expand as we go. HP and Pepsi is just the beginning.

[stoid]

I have to agree with you. I'm going to be very disappointed if the great products Steve mentioned were going to be released this year are all music devices. Does Apple know how many people are eagerly awaiting (with their credit cards in hand) the release of a G5 powerbook. At this point, when the powerbook is released, it better have an all new design and an innovative cooling process.

I'm sure that Apple is working there damndest to get those babies out the door. Not like Apple doesn't have the capital to spend to get it going. I guess I'd rather have music news at least than NO news. Just look at Apple's stock, they are going places right now, and without the music to drive the company through the G4/G5 transition, they might not make it.

If I am remembering correctly, when ACC was first announced it was also called MP4.

I think that AAC (;)) is the audio layer of the MPEG-4 codec in the same manner that mp3's represent the audio layer (Layer 3) of MPEG-1. I don't know if you can legally call it mp4 or not. If you notice the file type is mp4 for regular AAC files and m4a for the Apple Fairplay DRM'ed files.

[rinseout]

I'm personally indifferent to the iTunes music store and whether or not Apple is selling enough songs, but I thought it was kind of funny to see how different news outlets are spinning this. As you might expect, the optimists are posting here, and then the BBC is spinning this as some kind of business calamity:

BBC's story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3514178.stm)

[nuckinfutz]

It is always nice to hear when Apple is doing well. I don't think Apple needs to make ITMS .wma compatible. They might want to make the iPod and mini .wma compatible. I am not an audio expert, but if .wma is so inferior to ACC, then let the people decide for themselves.


Either would involve Apple paying licensing fees to Microsoft. People keep acting like WMA is free or something. It's not. It's a proprietary Microsoft format. If WMA is so great and has liberal fair use then it should be trivial to burn a Redbook CD and rerip to whatever format you like. Who cares about the recompression. If you cared that much about the audio you'd have purchased the CD right?

[centauratlas]

Apple could either let other companies rebrand the store, licencense the AAC/Fairplay combo or open up to .wma. Doing nothing like this is foolish and will end just the way the closed Mac-Platform ended.

"Nothing"?

HP is re-branding the iPod *and* semi-rebranding the iTMS so far (http://www.hp.com/united-states/music/ and http://www.apple.com/itunes/hp/download/).

You can license AAC (http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/legal/index.html). Fairplay info is here: http://64.244.235.240/ and http://www.macobserver.com/comments/commentindivdisplay.shtml?id=39125. The only issue I see is whether Apple licenses FairPlay.

The better bet is license FairPlay, but do NOT do wma. Doing WMA plays into Microsoft's hands to promote a "standard" that can change on Redmond's whim and would only hurt Apple. If they have to follow Microsoft's lead, and always play catch-up on WMA (it will happen like MSIE on the Mac, Windows Media Player 9 etc) it will kill them eventually. They need to be the ones setting a standard, an open standard like AAC in fact.

[sethypoo]

Apple, don't be so arrogant. If you loose your imagination others will push you aside again and profit from your "insanly great idea".

Ha! Let them be arrogant! By all means they deserve it. Apple has started a trend that is turning the music industry around. If anything, the iTMS is kind of like a "lead by example" idea: it's showing the music the industry that suing file sharers is going to get them no where fast, and that they need a way (the iTMS) to better distribute their product.

[stoid]

I'm personally indifferent to the iTunes music store and whether or not Apple is selling enough songs, but I thought it was kind of funny to see how different news outlets are spinning this. As you might expect, the optimists are posting here, and then the BBC is spinning this as some kind of business calamity:

BBC's story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3514178.stm)

Well, I guess everyone's under producing then. I'll bet that Napster intended to make money and not suck. Looks like they didn't hit their goals either. :D

[johnnyjibbs]

The BBC's article is full of spin! The "misses sales target" headline is a little misleading because they would only have missed it had it been April 28th today! And yes, although Apple isn't going to reach this target, they are selling at an ever-increasing rate while the competitors are hardly getting anywhere near! They make Coke's 10 thousand a week is Europe-wide sound like a threat - how can you compare to iTunes' 2.5 million a week for US alone!?

[Doctor Q]

wow, 2.5 million a week after almost a year (for Mac users)/6 months (for Windows users) that would not be bought if not for iTMS...

...and the RIAA execs think their time is better spent on suing mp3 sharers rather than developing better ways to distribute their product... :rolleyes:I see that Apple legal isn't sitting on their hands either. An iPod lookalike software product named pPod, then pBop, is out of business.

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[centauratlas]

>arrogant

If they are arrogant they need to temper it with FEAR. Fear will motivate them to keep improving, take good licensing deals (like HP), and, I hope, keep them on top.

[corey]

Grrrrrrrrrrr I hate when people use this wrong. eSnow an Order of Magnitude is an exponent. Meaning LARGE jumps. like say 10 to 100. It absolutely makes no sense in the context you've chosen. Apple hasn't had a lead over the competition that is anywhere close to a magnitude.
i hate when people make incorrect technical corrections. exponents can be fractional, signifying smaller jumps.

for example, you chose 10^2=100, a large increase. but, 10^1.25=17.78, a small increase.

[eSnow]

"Nothing"?

HP is re-branding the iPod *and* semi-rebranding the iTMS so far (http://www.hp.com/united-states/music/ and http://www.apple.com/itunes/hp/download/).


Huh? this is just a customized iTunes download link, _not_ a customized iTMS. Teaming up with HP was indeed a good move, but it concerns no point of mine (open up AAC/Fairplay, rebrand the iTMS, adopt .wma).

You can license AAC (http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/legal/index.html). Fairplay info is here: http://64.244.235.240/ and http://www.macobserver.com/comments/commentindivdisplay.shtml?id=39125. The only issue I see is whether Apple licenses FairPlay.

Right. This is why I wrote about Apples failure to license out AAC/Fairplay
:rolleyes: .

[PretendPCuser]

No one can know until April 28, 2004 and all of the songs sold are counted.


...no one asks for a re-count.

[Prom1]

There are doing pretty good!!

Just a little bothered that Canadians whom love music like the rest of the world cannot participate.

I wonder how many other sales could have been made if USA customers could setup their checking accounts for direct payment?? Since not everyone has a valid credit card.

Its good to see Steve was right in gambling that so many are annoyed with downloading off of Kazaa only to find out that the track is some DJs remix at a horrible basement party, let alone those HARRIBLE high-pitched screaming sounds in the middle/beginning/end of the song; that after the 3rd try. ;)

[Lancetx]

There are doing pretty good!!

Just a little bothered that Canadians whom love music like the rest of the world cannot participate.



Well, people need to complain to the Canadian government or whomever it is up there causing the amount of red tape they're making Apple cut thru in order to bring the iTMS to Canada, not to Apple themselves. Same goes in Europe too, it's not like Apple wouldn't love to be selling in all of those markets, it's just that they're having to jump thru multiple legal hoops to get things going. Dealing with the RIAA seems like a piece of cake by comparison apparently seeing as it's taking them so long to branch out beyond the U.S.

[jxyama]

let's just settle the off-topic math issue... :D

"an order of magnitude" is a factor of ten.

the original post refered to the fact apple has now sold 50 million songs. the last updated number from napster was 5 million. hence an order of magnitude...

[jwhitnah]

wow, 2.5 million a week after almost a year (for Mac users)/6 months (for Windows users) that would not be bought if not for iTMS...

...and the RIAA execs think their time is better spent on suing mp3 sharers rather than developing better ways to distribute their product... :rolleyes:
If the RIAA keeps it up, it will only help Apple's iTMS. ;)

[dongmin]

Huh? this is just a customized iTunes download link, _not_ a customized iTMS. Teaming up with HP was indeed a good move, but it concerns no point of mine (open up AAC/Fairplay, rebrand the iTMS, adopt .wma).
Apple already has partnerships with:

HP (desktop link and rebranded iPod)
AOL (link from AOL music)
Pepsi (free songs)

and I suspect McDonalds will be on board as well as soon as the Pepsi deal expires. While Apple has traditionally been less-than-friendly about partnerships, they're doing a pretty good job this time around in expanding the market.

The Fairplay thing is moot, at this point. Apple is in a dominant position (near-monopoly); they have very little incentive to encourage other music services or portable players (which opening up their DRM would do). Sure it would help the adoption of AAC, but not by much.

As for Napster, they're really a non-issue. I don't see them lasting much longer. Apple's biggest threat will be Microsoft when they jump into the market. It'll be interesting to see how much Microsoft's legal troubles (antitrust) affect their strategy towards selling music. From today's NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/15/business/16CND-TECH.html?hp):


The greatest effect of a ruling against Microsoft would be evident in the way the company sells its music and video-playing software program Media Player. Instead of bundling the program into its Windows operating system as Microsoft does now, the European Commission is expected to demand that Microsoft sell two versions of Windows to manufacturers of personal computers — one of them with Media Player stripped out.

The commission has contended that by bundling Media Player into Windows, Microsoft is abusing the dominance of the operating system to the detriment of competitors like RealNetworks and QuickTime.

[jwhitnah]

[QUOTE=eSnow]

Apple is trying to achieve the impossible:
- Dominating the mp3-player market (at least the market for premium players) AND
- dominating the music download market AND
- pushing AAC as the standard for compressed audio.

If they were good, they could hit one of the three. Two out of three if they are really good. But all three is impossible, there is too much money to be made that other companies would not attack sooner or later.
QUOTE]

Not a compelling argument. They dominate the MP3 market and the download market RIGHT NOW. Since they dominate these 2, you could argue AAC IS THE STANDARD ALREADY. One thing the new numbers do not reflect is the mini, which is flying off the shelves. The great thing is that with the mini, Apple is set to whoop a** on the "low end market'. Yes, big mo' is definately in Apple's favor! :D

[allpar]

Napster is the only one that has remotely successful numbers...The only way they are going to stay in business is if MS throws their marketing weight behind it, otherwise Apple is alone on the top of the pile by quite a bit.

Already happened. See how many media accounts talk about iTunes and iPod being tied to a proprietary format, "unlike WMA players." They could just as easily talk about how the iPod uses the universal MP3 and AAC formats along with the proprietary iTunes protected AAC format, right? And note that WMA is indeed proprietary! I assume MS gets royalties from WMA-using services?

The danger is Apple getting overconfident when Napster isn't the real danger - it's WalMart and all the other rebrands of Microsoft. Napster is a bunch of kids and MBAs. Microsoft is the gathering of sharks and criminals on the horizon.

[Wash!!]

like a pc user that is just really upset that he bought a bunch of music on napscrap site and he can't play it any more on his crappy pc anymore..... God I hate people that have to see everything from the "glass half enty"

[nuckinfutz]

i hate when people make incorrect technical corrections. exponents can be fractional, signifying smaller jumps.

for example, you chose 10^2=100, a large increase. but, 10^1.25=17.78, a small increase.

Congrats Corey you get an "A" for mathematics today...your golden star is on it's way! That doesn't change that fact that stating iTune store has been open an "Order of Magnitude" longer than Napster is out of context here because we're talking about less than 6 months. The statement was hyperbole and a poor rebuttal in my opinion. We may have to agree to disagree here. ;)

[jwhitnah]

like a pc user that is just really upset that he bought a bunch of music on napscrap site and he can't play it any more on his crappy pc anymore..... God I hate people that have to see everything from the "glass half enty"

I have PC friends who are constantly ripping on Apple. So now the ipod and mini are popular. Will they buy it? No. They would be admitting apple could build something great at a reasonable price. When the other online music services start going belly up, I'll not shed a tear for their misinformed purchases.

[Wash!!]

I have PC friends who are constantly ripping on Apple. So now the ipod and mini are popular. Will they buy it? No. They would be admitting apple could build something great at a reasonable price. When the other online music services start going belly up, I'll not shed a tear for their misinformed purchases.

They can't bare that fact and drives them crazy that their beloved wincrapwmacrappydmr does not work any more and Apple and ipods are every where.

just as an example, yesterday i found a vending machine with the itunes promotion bottles it was almost enty the remaning bottles were all losers, people took all the winers already, now if that is not good marketing don't know what it is... :D

[stoid]

I assume MS gets royalties from WMA-using services?.

The only reason they wouldn't be is because they want to have the monopoly first. Once they get the monopoly, you can bet your **** they'll be charging a premium to license it.

[spinko]

Ha! Let them be arrogant! By all means they deserve it. Apple has started a trend that is turning the music industry around. If anything, the iTMS is kind of like a "lead by example" idea: it's showing the music the industry that suing file sharers is going to get them no where fast, and that they need a way (the iTMS) to better distribute their product.

I agree with that but arrogance won't get them anywhere in the long run. Apple has been arrogant about almost every new product they brought out so far (quote "G4, the Pentium toaster", "G5 the fastes chip around, etc.". Only to become the laughing stock two months later because the Winbox competition brings out something much faster while Apple struggles to get it's products out that where promised 4 months back at some expensive and overhyped show...

Please don't get me wrong. I've been using Apple computers since the first color Mac came out. I also think Steve J. has the vision needed to steer Apple in the right direction. But I'm getting tired of the current policy which consists of making loud announcements and then not delivering in a timely manner. Why not have regular updates ? Even if that means less spectacular ones. I feel it's essential for a computer company to keep the pipeline (and it's internet site) full of updated stuff. The Apple store hasn't changed much in weeks or even months. Why hold back the much rumored displays ? Or updated PB's ? Or better graphic capabilities ? etc...

The iPod is great but who in his/her right mind would want to carry 10000+ songs around and listen to them all ?? It would take weeks to do that ! And please, I don't know anyone who has 10000 leagal MP3/AAC songs.

Just letting of some steam and beeing of topic again ! Flame me if you want

:rolleyes:

[centauratlas]

Huh? this is just a customized iTunes download link, _not_ a customized iTMS..

I didn't say it was customized iTMS. I said "semi-rebranding". It is a step towards re-branding. Responding to a straw-man that you set up is meaningless. The point is that Apple is rebranding the iPod itself, and will no doubt do at least limited re-branding with HP. Just as they do iTunes with AOL etc.

[Wash!!]

I agree with that but arrogance won't get them anywhere in the long run. Apple has been arrogant about almost every new product they brought out so far (quote "G4, the Pentium toaster", "G5 the fastes chip around, etc.". Only to become the laughing stock two months later because the Winbox competition brings out something much faster while Apple struggles to get it's products out that where promised 4 months back at some expensive and overhyped show...

Please don't get me wrong. I've been using Apple computers since the first color Mac came out. I also think Steve J. has the vision needed to steer Apple in the right direction. But I'm getting tired of the current policy which consists of making loud announcements and then not delivering in a timely manner. Why not have regular updates ? Even if that means less spectacular ones. I feel it's essential for a computer company to keep the pipeline (and it's internet site) full of updated stuff. The Apple store hasn't changed much in weeks or even months. Why hold back the much rumored displays ? Or updated PB's ? Or better graphic capabilities ? etc...

The iPod is great but who in his/her right mind would want to carry 10000+ songs around and listen to them all ?? It would take weeks to do that ! And please, I don't know anyone who has 10000 leagal MP3/AAC songs.

Just letting of some steam and beeing of topic again ! Flame me if you want

:rolleyes:


....must resist...can't stop it.... Oh ok I'm better now.

You make a good point, but you also have to understand the way apple does hardware, when they put something on the market they try to make 100% flaw free and that sometimes hurts them, I prefer wait another week for a better product than to get one half bake and full of bugs, Dell crapo palyer is like that even the PC experts label it as overprice beta unit that it was put it just for the sake of having one. Apple (Steve) learn the lesson of the newton, never again..

[centauratlas]

The iPod is great but who in his/her right mind would want to carry 10000+ songs around and listen to them all ?? It would take weeks to do that ! And please, I don't know anyone who has 10000 leagal MP3/AAC songs.


I have approximately 13000 legal MP3s and AACs About 100-200 are from iTMS, the rest from CDs. I'd like to have about 6000-7000 with me, the rest don't really matter.

The point of having them all there is, I don't want have to decide beforehand what I want to listen to when I am driving somewhere (or whatever). ;-)

I know I might only listen to 10 or 15, but I don't want to have to think about what I want to listen to, decide before I leave, and then go to the computer and load them. That's why I like my 30GB, although I still have it filled. I need a 60GB or 120 GB. ha ha ha. The point, for me, is to have all the music I want with me, wherever my iPod is so that whatever my mood is, I can pick that music.

Other people use their MP3 players differently. I think that is why Apple has different sizes - different usage patterns, different expectations.

:-)

Oh, and I get what you are saying about other products being "fresh". That is important too. I hope that Apple can focus on multiple, mutually compatible things, helping the whole line from Macs to iPods to iTMS to software etc.

[spinko]

....must resist...can't stop it.... Oh ok I'm better now.

You make a good point, but you also have to understand the way apple does hardware, when they put something on the market they try to make 100% flaw free and that sometimes hurts them, I prefer wait another week for a better product than to get one half bake and full of bugs, Dell crapo palyer is like that even the PC experts label it as overprice beta unit that it was put it just for the sake of having one. Apple (Steve) learn the lesson of the newton, never again..

Me too I'd wait a week longer but it's been months since the last updates or price drops and everybody is holding back in anticipation. Surely, having the same chip just a little faster isn't that hard to do ? And, ehem.. I was an original paying beta tester for 10.0 :)

[spinko]

I have approximately 13000 legal MP3s and AACs About 100-200 are from iTMS, the rest from CDs. I'd like to have about 6000-7000 with me, the rest don't really matter.

The point of having them all there is, I don't want have to decide beforehand what I want to listen to when I am driving somewhere (or whatever). ;-)

I know I might only listen to 10 or 15, but I don't want to have to think about what I want to listen to, decide before I leave, and then go to the computer and load them. That's why I like my 30GB, although I still have it filled. I need a 60GB or 120 GB. ha ha ha. The point, for me, is to have all the music I want with me, wherever my iPod is so that whatever my mood is, I can pick that music.

Other people use their MP3 players differently. I think that is why Apple has different sizes - different usage patterns, different expectations.

:-)

Oh, and I get what you are saying about other products being "fresh". That is important too. I hope that Apple can focus on multiple, mutually compatible things, helping the whole line from Macs to iPods to iTMS to software etc.

Hope I didn't offend you. I had forgotten the CD's

[Sabbath]

The BBC's article is full of spin! The "misses sales target" headline is a little misleading because they would only have missed it had it been April 28th today! And yes, although Apple isn't going to reach this target, they are selling at an ever-increasing rate while the competitors are hardly getting anywhere near! They make Coke's 10 thousand a week is Europe-wide sound like a threat - how can you compare to iTunes' 2.5 million a week for US alone!?

The 10,000 Coke quote is such a joke in comparison. I bought a bottle of coke yesterday and it had a promotion on it where 1 in 10 bottles wins a music download. Not only a rip off of the pepsi deal but I have to buy a bigger (2L) bottle, with worse odds of winning. Add to that the fact I can't use the coke downloaded song in iTunes or on my iPod (I just presume its wma) so I don't really care.

They do have a few good ideas over the pepsi promotion however, you get a code which you have to enter on the website to see if you have won. Hence you must visit the site if you win or not and you cant just cheat by looking at the bottle at an angle.

[Doctor Q]

Does anyone have a guess as to what percentage of purchased iTMS tunes end up in an iPod? I have absolutely no idea, and maybe neither does Apple, but it would be quite interesting to know how much of the iTMS market is iPod-based.

[vpalvarez]

Does anyone have a guess as to what percentage of purchased iTMS tunes end up in an iPod? I have absolutely no idea, and maybe neither does Apple, but it would be quite interesting to know how much of the iTMS market is iPod-based.

All you need to know is how many copies of iTunes are out in circulation then you figure that there is 2 million ipods and maybe 500,000 minis, and now you can compute the percentage

[BornAgainMac]

I'm personally indifferent to the iTunes music store and whether or not Apple is selling enough songs, but I thought it was kind of funny to see how different news outlets are spinning this. As you might expect, the optimists are posting here, and then the BBC is spinning this as some kind of business calamity:

BBC's story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3514178.stm)

Wow, Apple is going to go out of business now. They weren't very successful in meeting their sales goals according to this article. I noticed they hated it when they had a poll a few months ago to determine if Steve Jobs had more influence or power than Bill Gates. Something like 80% posted that it was Steve Jobs. But their article stated that Bill Gates was the winner from their editors.

[vitaboy]

The danger is Apple getting overconfident when Napster isn't the real danger - it's WalMart and all the other rebrands of Microsoft. Napster is a bunch of kids and MBAs. Microsoft is the gathering of sharks and criminals on the horizon.

I think the real danger is Apple tripping up. Walmart's music store is bombing by all accounts - selling digital music files online isn't the same things as selling discount CDs.

Apple has nothing to fear from the browser-based WMA stores. Too inconvenient, especially with regards to transferring licenses from one computer to another and inconsitent DRM. Napster is still Apple most viable threat because Napster's UI is closest to working like iTunes. Still not nearly as elegant or sensible, but at least it's not browser based.

So all Apple has to do is keep on churning out ever more desirable iPods (none of this 8-months-without-a-hardware-update that the Mac world experiences), and iTunes will automatically benefit from that success. The game is really Apple's to lose. The "sharks" on the horizon are too busy killing each other to be of a direct threat to Apple.

[stoid]

The "sharks" on the horizon are too busy killing each other to be of a direct threat to Apple.
More like dolphins or something. Free Willy! :p

[eSnow]

like a pc user that is just really upset that he bought a bunch of music on napscrap site and he can't play it any more on his crappy pc anymore..... God I hate people that have to see everything from the "glass half enty"

You know what, fanboi? I have been constantly buying and using Macs since 1991. But I do happen to think out of the box at times.

[MCCFR]

Here's my take on this, which I have posted to several sites and sent to zdnet.co.uk in an attempt to get them to alter their article to something more factual.



If you assume that Track 50M was sold right at the end of Thursday, Apple still have 47 days to reach the 100M total.

If iPod mini sales stimulate 10% growth in standard downloads (to around 393K/day), Apple wll achieve 68.5M sales by April 28 - the real 1-year anniversary of the iTunes Music Store.

The PepsiCo promotion then needs to generate 31.5 million downloads by the end of April to reach 100 million downloads: put another way, iTunes-loving Pepsi drinkers need to redeem nearly 370,000 downloads/day (backdated since 02/01, the start-date of that promotion).

If you further assume that there are 1M iPod users in the USA who might be on the lookout for winning caps (a reasonable number, given that over two million iPods have been sold, and 50% of Apple's business is in the USA), they each have to find/buy a winning cap every 3 days or so. So if you buy a bottle of Pepsi every day, you need a 1 in 3 chance, which is exactly what you've got (300 million bottles, 100 million winners).

I'm willing to lay money that Apple will only miss its target by around 2.5% - 5% if it misses at all, which I doubt. PepsiCo are not as stupid as some contributors seem to think; so I suspect the caps are out there, it's just you have to be real enthusiastic to get to them quickly.

[Colonel Panik]

I just wish that the store would open outside the States, and soon. I'm sure that they'd have at least 10 million sales just in Europe the first week they open.

I mean, that Cokemusic thing... how many times did their server fall over the first few weeks? The first time I was able to visit it was today, and it just ain't got the goods, does it? Am I going to go back? How many times do you return to a restaurant that's served you a bad meal, or a shop where the staff are rude? Same thing with a website which refuses you. Compared to the other online stores, the iTMS looks like they actually thought about what people want.

[jxyama]

Walmart's music store is bombing by all accounts - selling digital music files online isn't the same things as selling discount CDs.

i knew they were working on it, but i didn't even know they had actually launched... :p

[210]

I've been reading what everyone has said in this topic & I have a few questions some kind souls may take the time 2 answer or guess at:

iPod is the best-selling portable music player out there at the moment, but how many has been sold worldwide? Who is number 2? Also, all this talk about AAC/WMA - how many other portable music players use AAC? Can these be used with the iTunes/ Music Store? What other online music stores uses AAC? Can they be used with the iPod? Isn't there an idea for them to change to AAC and not WMA in particular considering iPod are the best-selling player? I know they can also burn them on CD, but it's the leck of options for the consumer I'm thinking about.

Another thing: if companies have to pay to "use" WMA, why don't they all use AAC?

Also, I'm sure what Apple want by using the iPod & iTunes is to get people recognising the Apple brand name again & maybe even persuade them to buy an Apple Macintosh computer. Has there been any sign of this? Has Apple's computer sales figures increased since the introduction of the iPod/iTunes?

There are already online music stores available in the U.K. like myCokemusic, Virgin & MSN, so why is it taking Apple so long to release iTunes Music Store over here? Do they want to release the store simultaneously throughout Europe? Wouldn't it make more sense to release them country by country? Also, Napster are also planning to release a U.K./European store - would they be able to steal and maybe even cause permanent harm in terms of sales if they came out before iTunes? What about these other sites like myCokemusic - have they already stolen some business and mindshare by coming out first?

Also, you don't have to buy a bottle of Coca-Cola as the promotion is also on their cans. It's no where near as good as the Pepsi promotion as it's a 1 in 10 chance to win, not 1 in 3 like Pepsi. Coke's site is annoying as you constantly have to skip the intro and it's badly laid out. It sucks that it uses WMA as well.

Also, Virgin Megastore sell iPods, but their online music store sells WMA songs. Go figure. Surely Apple noticed this.

[ccuilla]

This one is written in a more balanced manner:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114263,00.html

[Macmaniac]

News like this requires only one kind of label. OWNED plain and simple, the competition is getting OWNED, however the key is holding on to this lead, lets keep it up Apple;)

[Wash!!]

You know what, fanboi? I have been constantly buying and using Macs since 1991. But I do happen to think out of the box at times.

I been using mac and pc since the days of the ][e so please....
I have every gaget out there and one comes close to the way apple design or implement tech, they just do it better end of story.

I use a laptop pc and it sucks plain and simple, use pc at work deal with the awful crap they call windows, I know apple is not perfect but a least they try to please their customers.

They will get somethings right some wrong but that's the way it is, what is funny that you are complaining that they do not use wma ask your self why and who cares wma sucks and we can debate this until the cows come home... why it upset you because they don't play with m$ wma is proprietary format and the key is "proprietary" m$ why apple would pay them when they can use a format the is free and better.

I seen my share of winsucks open standards and I'll use a abacus before I use any of m$ so call open standard formats.

Rant over....peace

[frankly]

Sure Steve, we understand. We are a bit scared too that Apple is being locked out of the party it created again - but the way Apple stubbornly insists on not letting others rebrand iTMS or selling .wma is not helping.

Would you care to restate this so that we might have at least a slight understanding of what you are trying to say??????

You act as though you are responding to this:

With over 50 million songs already downloaded and an additional 2.5 million songs being downloaded every week, it's increasingly difficult to imagine others ever catching up with iTunes.

and yet your response makes no sense whatsoever. Perhaps you were responding to something in your head???

How the heck is Apple being locked out of the party? How is anything that they are doing (including not using .wma or rebranding the iTMS) hurting Apple? They are the market leader. They are outselling their competition at an astounding rate. They sell more songs ever two weeks than their nearest competitor does in 4 months. Yes, it took Napster 4 months to sell 5 million songs.

Apple is in control of their own destiny right now and you want them to license technology from Microsoft, a company that is desperately trying to break into this arena and who is also known for muscling others out.

You are simply uninformed and haven't thought this through very well. You are acting as though this is the same thing as licensing something like an operating system. Apple makes their money by selling Macs and iPods. They don't make money by selling the songs or the iTMS software. Now that you realize this, how in the heck do they make money by licensing these two items???

Later, Frank

[Krizoitz]

This one is written in a more balanced manner:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114263,00.html

Don't you mean fair and balanced ;)

[bidge]

Thought I'd throw this in

[Trimix]

What's encouraging is that the pace is actually picking up.

4/28 - 9/03 (130 days): 10 mil -- 0.5 mil a week
9/03 - 12/12 (100 days): 15 mil -- 1.0 mil a week
12/12 - 3/15 (95 days): 25 mil -- 1.8 mil a week

Now Apple is saying 2.5 mil a week. We could be hitting 3 mil a week soon.

I wonder what's accounting for the increasing numbers. More windows users? More iPods being sold? Third-party crossovers (HP, AOL, Pepsi)? Better advertising?$

And imagine - Asia, Europe, Australia, South America not yet in the game :)

[grouse]

$

And imagine - Asia, Europe, Australia, South America not yet in the game :)

Unless they are in the game soon, there will be missed markets. Virgin's making noises, and there is the Peter Gabriel Coke thing (which isn't doing well yet) but Apple needs to get European and Asia mind-share asap, as well as, of course, for our friends down under.

I know that it's not necessarily their fault, but if it means doing it in Europe country by country (they'll be different language versions anyway) then do it. The UK is a vast market, dying for this. I suspect Steve does have a mantra here about all of Europe at once, but Steve, look mate, it took about 10 years to agree on the next 10 countries to join the EU, so win the war step by step, once UK or somewhere is successful the record industry will once again be falling over themselves to find ways round the release dates/licensing laws...

Where there's a will....

[ccuilla]

Don't you mean fair and balanced ;)

...zactly!

[Knox]

I'm personally indifferent to the iTunes music store and whether or not Apple is selling enough songs, but I thought it was kind of funny to see how different news outlets are spinning this. As you might expect, the optimists are posting here, and then the BBC is spinning this as some kind of business calamity:

BBC's story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3514178.stm)

Curiously the headline and first part of the BBC's story has now completely changed and has a much more positive spin on it, with only a passing reference to the target of 100 million songs (and it does now mention that the deadline for that hasn't come yet). Also it specifically mentions that the 50 million does not include the Pepsi songs.

[johnnyjibbs]

Curiously the headline and first part of the BBC's story has now completely changed and has a much more positive spin on it, with only a passing reference to the target of 100 million songs (and it does now mention that the deadline for that hasn't come yet). Also it specifically mentions that the 50 million does not include the Pepsi songs.
Yep, they must have had some complaints from Apple fans! :D

[Doctor Q]

I'm impressed! Good for BBC UK for unslanting their article!

[frankly]

Unless they are in the game soon, there will be missed markets. Virgin's making noises, and there is the Peter Gabriel Coke thing (which isn't doing well yet) but Apple needs to get European and Asia mind-share asap, as well as, of course, for our friends down under.

I know that it's not necessarily their fault, but if it means doing it in Europe country by country (they'll be different language versions anyway) then do it. The UK is a vast market, dying for this. I suspect Steve does have a mantra here about all of Europe at once, but Steve, look mate, it took about 10 years to agree on the next 10 countries to join the EU, so win the war step by step, once UK or somewhere is successful the record industry will once again be falling over themselves to find ways round the release dates/licensing laws...

Where there's a will....

Which is another good reason for Apple to not use .wma because the iPod is the biggest seller in the UK and in Japan. So, when Apple does open the iTMS in those countries they will have all of those iPod users in place already.

Later, Frank