Office 2004 Screenshots

[nspeds]

Here they are guys...

Don't ask, just look :D

[nspeds]

More...

[Nermal]

I know you say "don't ask", but...

Did you make these, or just get them from somewhere else? Could we have one of MSN Messenger if possible, thanks :)

[nspeds]

I know you say "don't ask", but...

Did you make these, or just get them from somewhere else? Could we have one of MSN Messenger if possible, thanks :)

Yeah, I made these, I'll post a messenger in a sec...

The reason I didn't was because there is barely any difference!

[nspeds]

messenger

[Nermal]

Well at least the new emoticons are there, I won't get any more silly text things like (pi) that I can't see!

[nspeds]

[QUOTE=Nermal]Well at least the new emoticons are there, I won't get any more silly text things like (pi) that I can't see![/QUOTE

Stick to amsn...

Outlook 2004 KICKS ASS LADIES AND GENTS!!! And so does Word Notebook view, it's kinda like OneNote.

Haven't played with Excel or Powerpoint but I'm doing a presentation of Rawles tonight so maybe I'll get to tinker here and there...

[rdowns]

[QUOTE=Nermal]Well at least the new emoticons are there, I won't get any more silly text things like (pi) that I can't see![/QUOTE

Stick to amsn...

Outlook 2004 KICKS ASS LADIES AND GENTS!!! And so does Word Notebook view, it's kinda like OneNote.

Haven't played with Excel or Powerpoint but I'm doing a presentation of Rawles tonight so maybe I'll get to tinker here and there...

Outlook?

[Zaty]

[QUOTE=Nermal]Well at least the new emoticons are there, I won't get any more silly text things like (pi) that I can't see![/QUOTE

Stick to amsn...

Outlook 2004 KICKS ASS LADIES AND GENTS!!! And so does Word Notebook view, it's kinda like OneNote.

Haven't played with Excel or Powerpoint but I'm doing a presentation of Rawles tonight so maybe I'll get to tinker here and there...

Actually, OneNote is the only app I'm missing on my PB. It's great a move from the MacBU to integrate OneNote's functionality into Word! I can't wait to get Office 2004 (I qualify for the step-up).

[Jays]

Does this version finally support unicod text? (Hebrew)
well doesent really matter Textedit does and opens word doc's very nicely.

[nspeds]

Does this version finally support unicod text? (Hebrew)
well doesent really matter Textedit does and opens word doc's very nicely.

Not sure, I'll check it out. I've been really busy so it's taking me time to look at the bells and whistles.


About "outlook 2004", I meant entourage...

[RoadKill]

Any news on Exchange support in Entourage?

My major bug bear is posting to public folders

[nspeds]

Any news on Exchange support in Entourage?

My major bug bear is posting to public folders

Exchange support is there, however, since I don't use Exchange, I barely see any difference between the Exchange implementation in Entourage 2004 and Entourage v.X

[ebow]

I know it's not a screenshot requestion, but when you save files in Word, Excel, etc. are you allowed to give them names longer than 31 characters? Please say yes! :eek:

[lasuther]

I am anxiously waiting the release of Office 2004. Any news or estimations on a release date? I've heard it will be before June.

lasuther

[wordmunger]

I'm *really* not sure about the transparent formatting palette. That's just weird. I hope that can be turned off.

One of my pet peeves with Office v.X is that the formatting palette doesn't "remember" its state the last time you opened the program. Whenever I launch MS Word, only the "font" tab is visible, but I prefer to have both the "font" and "alignment tabs visible. But even if they fix that, I'm not sure the new version will be worth the upgrade price.

[nspeds]

I know it's not a screenshot requestion, but when you save files in Word, Excel, etc. are you allowed to give them names longer than 31 characters? Please say yes! :eek:

Yes!

BTW, You guys are permitted to as questions about it, just don't bug me about how I got it!

In regards to the formatting palette. I actually, like the fade in fade out option, everytime my mouse touches it, it goes back to normal. When it is transparent, the interface feels a lot less clunkier.

I am unaware as to the release date.

If you guys want anymore screens of any more features/stuff in Office 2k4, just reply with what you want!

[Veldek]

Do you have Virtual PC 7, too? If yes, could you say something about its performance?

[Koodauw]

Do you have Virtual PC 7, too? If yes, could you say something about its performance?

Ooooh yes, Please do tell. I am sure there are many of us that are interested.

[AppleMatt]

Well at least the new emoticons are there, I won't get any more silly text things like (pi) that I can't see!

Yeah, that must have taken them all of 10 minutes to update :rolleyes:
MSN Messenger 4 is an app I'm really disappointed with, I had high hopes for it, that's why I created that thread a few days ago :(


Don't ask, just look :D
LOL.
There's a clue in your screen-shots.

AppleMatt

[Fukui]

I know it's not a screenshot requestion, but when you save files in Word, Excel, etc. are you allowed to give them names longer than 31 characters? Please say yes! :eek:
Yea, and can you also save files in names other than in english without it looking messed up?

[gwuMACaddict]

gross if you ask me... i felt like i was looking at XP... :rolleyes:

[jeremy.king]

No brushed metal? :D

[SpaceMagic]

looks good :) tell me, how come your finder windows are blue?

[wrldwzrd89]

I don't understand why Mac OS X looks so different. All the icons have changed; the windows are dark blue (??) and Safari's icon seems lower quality. You weren't using a theme program when you made the screenshots, were you, nspeds?

I like the new features of Office 2004; I haven't yet decided if I want to purchase it or stick with AppleWorks (which came with my iMac).

[Juventuz]

It looks different because he's got using a theme.

[AppleMatt]

He has ShapeShifter installed, I can't remember the theme name though

AppleMatt

[wdlove]

messenger

I thought that MSN messenger didn't work with the Mac. At least that is what it says in the advertisements by Verizon.

[nspeds]

Okay, just came back from class so I'm going to reply to all the questions:

1) No, I didn't get VPC 7, and now that I have Office 2004 with aMSN installed, I don't think I'll need VPC ever again:D.

2) I haven't tried doing filenames with different characters of other languages, maybe later;).

3) The blue theme is mine, I think it's called Simplex by swizzcore, but yes, I'm using shapeshifter.

Anyways, I'm really tired and have Rawles paper to write for tomorrow... but if you guys need anymore questions answered or screenies, just reply with the request and I'll get back to y'all...

[SoGood]

Strange how all the rumour sites, including this one, still have not reported much on the Office 2004 Preview release. For such a major productivity app...???

So what's it like? Stability? Performance? Compatibility? Major bugs? (yes, I am aware it's still "preview")

[crazzyeddie]

Okay, just came back from class so I'm going to reply to all the questions:

3) The blue theme is mine, I think it's called Simplex by swizzcore, but yes, I'm using shapeshifter.


I just wish you could take one screenshot without the theme on... so I can see if they changed the standard window appearance at all.

[nspeds]

Strange how all the rumour sites, including this one, still have not reported much on the Office 2004 Preview release. For such a major productivity app...???

So what's it like? Stability? Performance? Compatibility? Major bugs? (yes, I am aware it's still "preview")

Stability: Haven't really encountered any bugs, but a minor quirk is that Outlook doesn't remember what view I was in (ie. Inbox) so it keeps on referring back to the "home" page when I unhide it...

Perfomance: It's a little slow, just a little!

Compatibility: Interesting, now in every save box, there is a description as to what your file will be compatible with and there is something called a "compatibility report".

Surprisingly, this software is VERY stable. But then again, Office 2003 was also stable in Beta 2! But then again, Office 2003 was goooood!

[bitfactory]

Exchange support is there, however, since I don't use Exchange, I barely see any difference between the Exchange implementation in Entourage 2004 and Entourage v.X

haha. you obviously don't know much about Exchange.

in other words, for those who know what REAL Exchange Server implementation is... it still isn't in Office 2004! smtp is NOT Exchange Server support, kids. i guarantee Entourage will still be a JOKE when it comes to real Exchange Server support. you don't get my upgrade $.

[nspeds]

I just wish you could take one screenshot without the theme on... so I can see if they changed the standard window appearance at all.

Ask and ye shall recieve...

[phreaker57x]

I do not care for the new Office suite, but I would like to have those icons. Would you be kind enough to send me the new Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Entourage icons? The current Office v.X ones look horrible.

Thanks in advance.

[GetGo]

I have office 2003 for my PC and I love the new outlook. I have been waiting for the office 2004 for mac to come out, I will definitly buy it as soon as it comes out. I had a beta of Microsoft OneNote and I loved it, but I'm not paying $200.00 for just that program. That's why I'm glad you said WSord 2004 is just like it. Could you post a screen shot of the notebook ruled pages view with the tabbed sections.

Thanks in advance...

[GetGo]

I have office 2003 for my PC and I love the new outlook. I have been waiting for the office 2004 for mac to come out, I will definitly buy it as soon as it comes out. I had a beta of Microsoft OneNote and I loved it, but I'm not paying $200.00 for just that program. That's why I'm glad you said WSord 2004 is just like it. Could you post a screen shot of the notebook ruled pages view with the tabbed sections.

Thanks in advance...


Sorry, I just found your screen shot of what I requested, looks like just what I was looking for.

[MacBoy88]

I have office 2003 for my PC and I love the new outlook. I have been waiting for the office 2004 for mac to come out, I will definitly buy it as soon as it comes out. I had a beta of Microsoft OneNote and I loved it, but I'm not paying $200.00 for just that program. That's why I'm glad you said WSord 2004 is just like it. Could you post a screen shot of the notebook ruled pages view with the tabbed sections.

Thanks in advance...

Here it is!

[GetGo]

Here it is!

Thanks macboy88 looks great just what I'm looking for...

[nspeds]

I do not care for the new Office suite, but I would like to have those icons. Would you be kind enough to send me the new Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Entourage icons? The current Office v.X ones look horrible.

Thanks in advance.


I'll see what I can do!!

[Fiveos22]

Anyways, I'm really tired and have Rawles paper to write for tomorrow... but if you guys need anymore questions answered or screenies, just reply with the request and I'll get back to y'all...

John Rawles, the defender of liberalism?

You are my hero.

[russed]

in telling us not to ask you how you got it, means we are bound to ask you how you got it! so... how did you get it! :D

[LimeiBook86]

I can't seem to get excited about a bunch of Word Processing Suit programs... :rolleyes:

[KC9AIC]

Here it is!

Your username is displayed in the upper-right corner. I think you should blur it out…

[nspeds]

in telling us not to ask you how you got it, means we are bound to ask you how you got it! so... how did you get it! :D

I would, but I don't think these boards would permit such rhetoric! If you want, just IM me and I'll "do my best to accomodate your request"

MSN: rodugal@hotmail.com

Yes, Rawles is badass... Nozick too:D.

[nspeds]

I can't seem to get excited about a bunch of Word Processing Suit programs... :rolleyes:

Good for you, obviously, you don't care about the mechanisms one usually utilizes for making reports, doing work and regular everyday tasks that are assigned to us from the workplace. These mechanisms are seeing a possible improvement which could make doing work easier, that's something to drool over...

Maybe you don't do work but just look at macrumors.com all day, so you have no use for such "word processing suit programs". I don't know, just throwing it out there...

[Arnold]

Hello, everybody, I’m new on this forum.

One feature I terribly miss with Entourage X is the possibility to receive return receipts. Do you know if this feature is integrated in the 2004 version?

Thanks!

[blue&whiteman]

I thought that MSN messenger didn't work with the Mac. At least that is what it says in the advertisements by Verizon.

of course it does. there is a mac version of the app. a linux client called amsn is now ported to osx and is about equal to the pc version in features.

[wrldwzrd89]

Hello, everybody, I’m new on this forum.

One feature I terribly miss with Entourage X is the possibility to receive return receipts. Do you know if this feature is integrated in the 2004 version?

Thanks!
Receipts are a non-standard mail feature that is provided by the SERVER (Exchange, in this case), not the CLIENT (Entourage). Therefore, unless you happen to be using an Exchange server and Entourage 2004 PROPERLY supports Exchange, then no.

[crazzyeddie]

Ask and ye shall recieve...

Thank ye very much, sir. Same old ugly window theme though... :o

[houttbe]

I agree, Office is its own worst enemy because of this obsolete theme. Entourage suffers most from this.

Thank ye very much, sir. Same old ugly window theme though... :o

[odditie]

Does the new MSN at least have web cam support?

Chris

[nspeds]

Does the new MSN at least have web cam support?

Chris

No, literally, the emoticons is the only new item.

[AppleMatt]

MSN 4 to have no new features (well, 3 actually):
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=65206

:)

AppleMatt

[dudeami]

Entourage definitly needed work. If it is going to be used with Exchange, then it needs to be a full MAPI client, ability to fully schedule, use custom forms, use public folders etc. Otherwise it is not really an exchange client, just because it can connect to Exchange and send/receive email using IMAP4 and SMTP, you can do this with other email servers, and you are not truely utilizing the full Exchange feature set, thus IMHO it can not be called an Exchange client.

[wrldwzrd89]

Entourage definitly needed work. If it is going to be used with Exchange, then it needs to be a full MAPI client, ability to fully schedule, use custom forms, use public folders etc. Otherwise it is not really an exchange client, just because it can connect to Exchange and send/receive email using IMAP4 and SMTP, you can do this with other email servers, and you are not truely utilizing the full Exchange feature set, thus IMHO it can not be called an Exchange client.
You're right - plus, most IT admins that maintain Exchange servers don't turn on IMAP4 support (or are afraid to turn it on), so not having MAPI support in Entourage makes it pretty much useless as an Exchange client.

[bdkennedy1]

After all this time and they couldn't make the icons and layout more Aqua-like.

[bennetsaysargh]

i think i know how he got it ;)

is it any faster? because word is really sluggish, and that's my main problem with it.
another stupid question, is clippy there? or do we still have that mac with legs? :p

[LimeiBook86]

Good for you, obviously, you don't care about the mechanisms one usually utilizes for making reports, doing work and regular everyday tasks that are assigned to us from the workplace. These mechanisms are seeing a possible improvement which could make doing work easier, that's something to drool over...

Maybe you don't do work but just look at macrumors.com all day, so you have no use for such "word processing suit programs". I don't know, just throwing it out there...

AArrrggg...

I'm just saying that I don't use it so I couldn't care less. You didn't have to be mean about it. Yes, it is a very nice program, but I'm more into Graphics so its not my fancy... :o I always use TextEdit and Keynote, I don't need the MS suit. Yes I agree, it's a great program, but I don't have a real use for it.

[wrldwzrd89]

I'd install Mac OS X Panther on my 5gb iPod but, it doesn't have built-in USB
When I saw your signature, I just had to comment on it. As it turns out, Mac OS X doesn't care about USB when it's being installed on an external FireWire hard drive (iPods can be used as FW hard drives). So go ahead and install Panther on your iPod; in fact, I'm planning on doing this too when I buy an iPod.

[Fukui]

No, literally, the emoticons is the only new item.

And they need 160+ programmers for this?

[LimeiBook86]

When I saw your signature, I just had to comment on it. As it turns out, Mac OS X doesn't care about USB when it's being installed on an external FireWire hard drive (iPods can be used as FW hard drives). So go ahead and install Panther on your iPod; in fact, I'm planning on doing this too when I buy an iPod.

It was supposed to be a joke ;)

Also I herd running an OS from an iPod can cause major stress on the Hard Drive.

[FlamDrag]

Many of the icons seen in the screen shots are free from:

http://www.iconfactory.com

Many (safari word etc) are from the SmoothIcons collection.

[&RU]

I recently upgraded from Office 98 to v.X pro, and quite frankly I find it less responsive and more intrusive than ever -- I believe my productivity has actually dropped.

I think that having the pallets fade while not in use is a neat idea, and that notepad format is intrigueing... However, I cannot see myself upgrading anymore -- unless they add mac versions of Project or Visio to future upgrades.

[docholiday]

There are two things that have annoyed me the most about office:

1) Sluggishness. As &RU pointed out, it takes away from productivity.

2) Lack of Unicode support. It's funny that TextEdit can read Office 2003 hebrew and arabic documents, yet Office X can't.

nspeds, can you please check whether there is full unicode support? And as for speed, how does it compare to Office X?



Thanks,

docholiday

[nspeds]

There are two things that have annoyed me the most about office:

1) Sluggishness. As &RU pointed out, it takes away from productivity.

2) Lack of Unicode support. It's funny that TextEdit can read Office 2003 hebrew and arabic documents, yet Office X can't.

nspeds, can you please check whether there is full unicode support? And as for speed, how does it compare to Office X?



Thanks,

docholiday

First off, docholiday rules!

Secondly, I'll check up on the unicode part tonight and get back to ya (still a lot of personal work to clear up)

*Office 2004 feels a bit sluggish but then again, it's still in Beta but I will let it go. I don't know, despite the fact that this is slower, it feels somewhat more stable.

*Try me at rodugal@hotmail.com and I'll give you a try at it, don't hesitate, just do:D (MSN).

[skytown205]

I second (or third, or hundred) the posts lamenting Word's speed. Especially when typing--though part of this I suspect is the OS's fault. With the grammar check off and the spell-check and autocorrect on, it doesn't keep up with an average person's typing. Especially if one attempts to insert text in the middle of a paragraph.

Does anyone know why the formatting palette in Word comes down with the genie effect, but the dictionary doesn't?

I also need a better built-in dictionary and thesaurus--are they the same? The ones with Word right now are so stripped-down....In fact, I haven't found any good quick-reference dictionaries or thesauri for OSX (maybe someone can suggest something I don't know about. I've tried Nisus, Britannica, and a couple of others but they are all lacking in some way)....this may be heresy but I miss the old MS Bookshelf I used to have with Win95, back before Encarta or whatever it's called. Quick and very thorough.

[Benjamin]

go.. ir... i mean looks nice.

[MacsRgr8]

Do you have Virtual PC 7, too? If yes, could you say something about its performance?

No VPC 7 I'm afarid.... at least not in the preview (= beta) version of Office 2004.

I for one am looking for VPC 7 too.... all the others just are not as good. (WINE, bochs, OpenOSX Wintel). Not that I have tried 'em all personally, but I've read a couple of reviews, and all were rated worse than VPC 6.

Here's to hoping.

[redAPPLE]

haha. you obviously don't know much about Exchange.

in other words, for those who know what REAL Exchange Server implementation is... it still isn't in Office 2004! smtp is NOT Exchange Server support, kids. i guarantee Entourage will still be a JOKE when it comes to real Exchange Server support. you don't get my upgrade $.

i wish Apple would do the exchange server support.

[redAPPLE]

I can't seem to get excited about a bunch of Word Processing Suit programs... :rolleyes:

me too. so where is the g5 powerbook, Apple? :p

[MacsRgr8]

i wish Apple would do the exchange server support.

Well, Mail.app does support the mail of Exchange....

I still can't figure out why M$ wouldn't make Exntourage 100% compatible with all the features of Exchange.
Somehow it seems like M$ is saying: "Well, we're trying but if you really, really want Exchange support get a PC with our Winbloze"

It would be gr8 if Mail, Address Book, and iCal could be Exchange compatible... < keep dreamimg >

[Fukui]

Somehow it seems like M$ is saying: "Well, we're trying but if you really, really want Exchange support get a PC with our Winbloze"



Um, that is what they are saying.

And...thats one of the things that got them in trouble in the EU. Not because of that per se, but because they were using the desktop monopoly to push server sales (everyone has a windows box, so now you need a windows server + exchange + biztalk + sharepoint + client access licences for each etc...). The only client compatible is windows, that means since everyone in business has windows with the defualt outlook installed, then the best option for outlook compatibility is exchange.

[MacsRgr8]

Um, that is what they are saying.

Windows is a 32-bit extension to a 16-bit graphical shell for an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition..

Gotta love your sig.....

.... and it says it all aswell: "competition is good, just don't compete with me"

[Fukui]

Gotta love your sig.....

.... and it says it all aswell: "competition is good, just don't compete with me"

Well, lets put it this way, I *USED* to be one of those people that only knew DOS and Windows. As time went by, getting sick of building PC's my self, and windows' incessant crappy-ness (this was in the WinME and Win2000 days, I still think XP is just win2000 with nail-polish) and apple, actually, steve was making noise with OS X (which a picture of, I made the wall paper of my WinDOS box before I got a mac to simulate something remotely resembling OS X)...lets just say my cube, from almost 4 years ago, and OS X still look like somthing from 8 years in the future. And after coming to mac I decided to educate myself and studied up and realized what a bad company MS is and how desperate apple was until steve came back and how much of a spirit apple actually has compared to most companies, especially MS who chants "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!!!!!" on one side, and the suffocates any others that happen to get "too successfull" on thier platform. MS' continuing copying of everything apple or steve says/does just makes my decision to switch more solidified...

[MacsRgr8]

Well, lets put it this way, I *USED* to be one of those people that only knew DOS and Windows. As time went by, getting sick of building PC's my self, and windows' incessant crappy-ness (this was in the WinME and Win2000 days, I still think XP is just win2000 with nail-polish) and apple, actually, steve was making noise with OS X (which a picture of, I made the wall paper of my WinDOS box before I got a mac to simulate something remotely resembling OS X)...lets just say my cube, from almost 4 years ago, and OS X still look like somthing from 8 years in the future. And after coming to mac I decided to educate myself and studied up and realized what a bad company MS is and how desperate apple was until steve came back and how much of a spirit apple actually has compared to most companies, especially MS who chants "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!!!!!" on one side, and the suffocates any others that happen to get "too successfull" on thier platform. MS' continuing copying of everything apple or steve says/does just makes my decision to switch more solidified...

One big AMEN to that.

[jtquick2001]

Here they are guys...

Don't ask, just look :D

you should have kept the OSX interface. I personally think the whole thing is fake.

[BornAgainMac]

And they need 160+ programmers for this?

Probably. They are Microsoft.

[kungfu]

Does anyone know if this version of office is still carbon? Knowing MS, I'm almost sure that it is... a conversion to cocoa would require a lot of work, and it's probably not worth it for MS.

Thanks...

[vpalvarez]

Any ideas as to whether or not OneNote will come out on Mac. I'v used it on a PC and its pretty good.

[Diatribe]

Does anyone know whether MSN Messenger works with an Airport now? Or are those emoticons really the ONLY new thing, because if they are the people at Microsoft should get their butts kicked. I can't even use MSN because it won't connect over my Airport. This is one major drawback, especially if you live in a country where most of the people use that damn thing. God how I hate Microsoft.

[shamino]

Receipts are a non-standard mail feature that is provided by the SERVER (Exchange, in this case), not the CLIENT (Entourage). Therefore, unless you happen to be using an Exchange server and Entourage 2004 PROPERLY supports Exchange, then no.
No. They are quite standard. The IETF defined two different mechanisms for receipts - one in 1996 and one in 1998. Microsoft's particular mechanism for receipts may be non-standard but it would be wrong to categorically state that "receipts are a non-standard mail feature".

RFC 1894 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1894.txt) defines the Delivery Status Notification (DSN) mechanism for receipts. DSNs inform the sender that the remote server has processed the message and either accepted or rejected it, but says nothing about whether a human has read the message.

RFC 2298 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2298.txt) defines the Message Disposition Notification (MDN) mechanism for receipts. MDNs inform the sender that the remote user has read the message (or at least opened it.)

DSN's don't work without support by the recipient's mail server.

MDNs don't care about the server but require support in the recipient's e-mail client. A good client will let you decide how to handle mail messages with MDNs - to send a response, not send, or ask you - and allow separate settings based on who the sender claims to be. (Mozilla is pretty good in this aspect. I don't know about Microsoft's clients.)

[shamino]

Entourage definitly needed work. If it is going to be used with Exchange, then it needs to be a full MAPI client, ability to fully schedule, use custom forms, use public folders etc. Otherwise it is not really an exchange client, just because it can connect to Exchange and send/receive email using IMAP4 and SMTP, you can do this with other email servers, and you are not truely utilizing the full Exchange feature set, thus IMHO it can not be called an Exchange client.
Agreed. I access my employer's exchange server with IMAP/SMTP from Mozilla, but I'd be laughed out of the room if I called it an Exchange client.

[realityisterror]

you seem to be running bittorrent in the background...
(hint hint)

i'm curious about the cocoa vs. carbon thing too... can you do: Word --> Services --> Speech --> Start Speaking Text?

answer is appreciated,
reality

[Fukui]

Does anyone know if this version of office is still carbon? Knowing MS, I'm almost sure that it is... a conversion to cocoa would require a lot of work, and it's probably not worth it for MS.

Thanks...
Its not worth it.
Too much to throw away.

...and then what would they do with all those employees?
Design emoticons? Maybe they could port Publisher, Onenote, Access, Project, Visio, you know all the extra programs windows version gets for
the same price as the mac version....

[chromos]

Hey nspeds,

Can you check if Entourage still chews up ungodly amounts of cpu time while viewing HTML mail? It's an awful bug that never gets fixed and makes me wary of using Entourage while I'm on battery power. :mad:

tia

[NeoMayhem]

you seem to be running bittorrent in the background...
(hint hint)

i'm curious about the cocoa vs. carbon thing too... can you do: Word --> Services --> Speech --> Start Speaking Text?

answer is appreciated,
reality

No, it is disabled.

Word is really nice though, and entourage is a big improvement, just not as good as mail.app yet.

MSN 4 is cocoa though, I was surprised about that.

[tny]

The developer has already posted to the Unicode list that there is some Unicode support in the new version of Office, but he didn't mention any rtl languages like Hebrew or Arabic, so the assumption is that RTL and shaping aren't implemented yet, but basic Unicode support - probably including higher planes - is.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

I met a Sales Weenie (TM) at a VW service place in Seattle, and asked her specifically why Entourage is so low on features as compared to it's PC counterpart. I got the song and dance (which amounted to M$ wanting people to use Windows, not Mac), but the thing that struck me the most was, and this is a direct quote, "Creative people don't care about scheduling, or meeting reminders.. That's for the rest of the company to worry about". I swear to god, that's what she said.

So, apprently, from M$'s point of view (or just an M$ employee), us "creative types" that usa Macs don't need to worry our pretty little heads about all that hard business stuff.. That's for the growups (who use windows, of course) to deal with.. We'll just make the pretty pictures.


Entourage definitly needed work. If it is going to be used with Exchange, then it needs to be a full MAPI client, ability to fully schedule, use custom forms, use public folders etc. Otherwise it is not really an exchange client, just because it can connect to Exchange and send/receive email using IMAP4 and SMTP, you can do this with other email servers, and you are not truely utilizing the full Exchange feature set, thus IMHO it can not be called an Exchange client.

[beatle888]

Good for you, obviously, you don't care about the mechanisms one usually utilizes for making reports, doing work and regular everyday tasks that are assigned to us from the workplace. These mechanisms are seeing a possible improvement which could make doing work easier, that's something to drool over...

Maybe you don't do work but just look at macrumors.com all day, so you have no use for such "word processing suit programs". I don't know, just throwing it out there...

i wouldnt assume one needs a word processor for work. the only reason why ive ever used that poor excuse for a program was to cut text OUT of
and paste into another app. word is the suckiest program ive ever had to
launch....well....im exaggerating but still....it sucks. anyway, thanks for the screen shots, im always curious whats going on with the major mac apps.

[jessebc77]

I've never really been interested in the office suite before but I just recently took a look at the new project centre and was thinking that this could really change the way I do business. I was hoping that you could post some more screenshots of the project centre and some details on how the "share" functionality works. Can you share access to a projects email, notes, to-do lists, files over the net? Outsourcing projects might be a whole lot easier if this is the case.

- Jesse BC

[TorbX]

Good for you, obviously, you don't care about the mechanisms one usually utilizes for making reports, doing work and regular everyday tasks that are assigned to us from the workplace. These mechanisms are seeing a possible improvement which could make doing work easier, that's something to drool over...

Maybe you don't do work but just look at macrumors.com all day, so you have no use for such "word processing suit programs". I don't know, just throwing it out there...

(Please excuse my english in the following, Im from Norway :)

Whats up!?

I have never had any word-programs or anything similar on my PowerBook. I am a law-student from Norway, and I write tasks we are given every day in TextEdit. My (norwegian) spelling is perfect, and I see NO use for all the "plings and plongs".

Dont slam me now. This is only ME and MY needs. New Times Roman 12pt, 1,5 spacing, nothing else. My point is just that people have different needs.

[BWhaler]

I have only one question: does the new office support long file names?


It's pathetic to say, but honestly, I will upgrade for that reason alone. Conversely, I will not upgrade and deal with the new bugs, et al., if there are still short file names. This "feature" bugs me a dozen times a day, and I'm not spending my money if MS doesn't get smart about this.

Thanks for posting the pictures, and if you can let us know about the long file names, that would be great.

[ultrafiel]

Does anyone know whether MSN Messenger works with an Airport now? Or are those emoticons really the ONLY new thing, because if they are the people at Microsoft should get their butts kicked. I can't even use MSN because it won't connect over my Airport. This is one major drawback, especially if you live in a country where most of the people use that damn thing. God how I hate Microsoft.

Excuse me, but you need to look at your network settings, because MSN Messenger works over airport. If you are going through a router or something then maybe the port that Messenger uses is blocked. I connect through the internet over airport, and can use messenger without a problem. At the beginning I couldn't transfer files to contacts, but that was a router problem. Once I opened the port it works fine. Sorry, the problem here isn't MS. If you mean messenger using rendevous then that is a different matter. It can't detect all the users on your network.

[rlw]

Does this version finally support unicod text? (Hebrew)
well doesent really matter Textedit does and opens word doc's very nicely.

I can't believe that I didn't already know this (Textedit reads unicod text). THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! :)

[groycvg]

Have you been able to see if the newsgroup threading is multi-level... or just as it is today, single level.

Thanks for the screenshots!

--
G

[markjones05]

More...


Is that a torrent i see blurred out there? tisk tisk tisk.

[bit density]

There are two things that have annoyed me the most about office:

1) Sluggishness. As &RU pointed out, it takes away from productivity.


There is a known bug with Live Word Count, which is on by default. It sucks up an incredible amount of cycles to the point of overall sluggishness, and is usually not a useful feature...

It can be turned off in Preferences:View:Live Word Count.

This makes word as snappy as you would expect in vX

Which reminds me...

Can you check in 2004 whether or not LWC is enabled by default, and if it still sucks alot of system cycles if it is on?

[Macnerd1984]

Does Entourage's Address book now use the Apple Address book or is it still separate? It's a real pain to have to keep the two synchronised and as far as I can gather synching up Entourage's address book using iSync is impossible (although I may well be wrong). I guess it would be too much to ask for M$ to make things that easy for us "standard" users.........
:rolleyes:

[MDiddy]

That would be absolutely awesome for me. Does anyone know if that will be offered? I have a Clie, Sony Erricson Phone w/Bluetooth, and an iPod and I want to keep everything consistent with my email. For me, Apple's Mail app sucks, and I much prefer Entourage. If I could easily keep that synced via iSync with everything else, I'd cop for it.

Anyone read anything about iSync support?

[Juventuz]

you should have kept the OSX interface. I personally think the whole thing is fake.

It's VERY safe to say that you're wrong. It is a real copy and if you know where to look it's easy to get.

[jpcrumley]

Actually, OneNote is the only app I'm missing on my PB. It's great a move from the MacBU to integrate OneNote's functionality into Word! I can't wait to get Office 2004 (I qualify for the step-up).

Forget OneNote. Aquamind's NoteTaker is well ahead of OneNote in terms of features. It's a great app that doesn't lock you in to Microsoft stuff.

Aquamind's Website (http://www.aquaminds.com)

[Juventuz]

Does Entourage's Address book now use the Apple Address book or is it still separate? It's a real pain to have to keep the two synchronised and as far as I can gather synching up Entourage's address book using iSync is impossible (although I may well be wrong). I guess it would be too much to ask for M$ to make things that easy for us "standard" users.........
:rolleyes:

No, it doesn't. It does allow you to import all your folders, sigs and preferences from the Apple Mail client, but not the address book.

Entourage does have a Junk Email feature that is very similiar to the junk email feature found in the Apple Mail program.

[zamyatin]

Can it read and write OpenOffice file formats (without MS' embrace-and-extend behavior)? Is it free like OpenOffice? Can it export to PDF in one-click (okay, since OSX can, the point's moot, but if you were stuck with Wintel...)? Does it have a built-in vector graphics drawing program?

Is it $479 better than OpenOffice?

(Note that a full Mac version of OpenOffice is about one year off, but NeoOffice/J -- www.neooffice.org/java/ -- is usable today.)

[Les Kern]

... I think it's a fake.

Oh no, it's quite real.
From when I first got on the net (one of AOL's first few thousand customers) some of you might remember "IMME". It progressed through various delivery apps, and it now resides quite out in the open.
I don't mind saying, becauase I'm so freaking legal and proud of it. (I just bought 600 copies of Office v.X with 3 years free upgrades, and I get one of course)
Since I don't want to come right out and say anything, and I want to play along with the thread, I'll give you a hint on the two "easiest" places (there are five major carriers that I know of): "EfNet/#macfilez" and "llcm>seep101"
There, I said it. The cat (Wrrroooowww!) is out of the bag.
I hang around in all the wrong places looking for info on what kids (mostly kids for sure) know about network/computer security, but it's getting harder to pretend to be one of them as I (sadly) grow older. I'm happy to say they know little, but think they know a lot, so on occasion it's quite entertaining.
Have fun.

[pimentoLoaf]

I only hope that there is an upgrade price for those of us who have Entourage only. Currently, there isn't, and I'd have to pay full list to get Office.

[nspeds]

I only hope that there is an upgrade price for those of us who have Entourage only. Currently, there isn't, and I'd have to pay full list to get Office.

I wake up from sleep and I see my thread made the front page!

LOL, and Entourage is a bit snappier opening HTML emails actually. What it does is that it immedietly shows the text then attempts to get the images from the net, that takes time, but at least you're able to read the email.

[mrgreen4242]

Can it read and write OpenOffice file formats (without MS' embrace-and-extend behavior)? Is it free like OpenOffice? Can it export to PDF in one-click (okay, since OSX can, the point's moot, but if you were stuck with Wintel...)? Does it have a built-in vector graphics drawing program?

Is it $479 better than OpenOffice?

(Note that a full Mac version of OpenOffice is about one year off, but NeoOffice/J -- www.neooffice.org/java/ -- is usable today.)
Doesn't the X11/Linux version of OpenOffice work in Panther now? I could have sworn I read that...

Rob

[Diatribe]

Excuse me, but you need to look at your network settings, because MSN Messenger works over airport. If you are going through a router or something then maybe the port that Messenger uses is blocked. I connect through the internet over airport, and can use messenger without a problem. At the beginning I couldn't transfer files to contacts, but that was a router problem. Once I opened the port it works fine. Sorry, the problem here isn't MS. If you mean messenger using rendevous then that is a different matter. It can't detect all the users on your network.

Hmmm, then it would be really nice to know how you got it working, because it always tells me that the network is down or I have no internet connection open... I would check whether the port that MSN uses is closed or not if I would know which port it uses...
Besides that it's a shame that it doesn't even support https proxies. I can't use it a school this way. That's something that really annoys me so bad, when something with my mac doesn't JUST WORK.
Oh well any help would be appreciated.

[StarBuck]

Thought you might be interested in this little clip of text taken from the help files.

So we have no access to public calendars thank you MS.



About Exchange public folders

Public folders is a feature of Microsoft Exchange Server that provides an effective way to collect, organize, and share information with others in an organization. Typically, public folders are used by project teams or user groups to share information about a common area of interest. When you are connected to your Exchange server, folders labeled "Public Folders" appear in the Microsoft Entourage Folder List under your Exchange mail account. Your Public Folder server was automatically determined when you created your Exchange account.

To download the list of public folders, click the Public Folders folder. All folders that you have access to will be downloaded. Keep the following in mind:

• Only e-mail messages will appear. Other item types that might be in the public folder, such as Calendar events or tasks, will not appear in Entourage.

[AppleMatt]

Can you check in 2004 whether or not LWC is enabled by default, and if it still sucks alot of system cycles if it is on?

Live Word Count is on by default in Word 2004.
It's not just that, it's overall sluggy. For example, Word v.X starts in 2 bounces. I loose count of how many Word 2004 takes.

On my 867MHz G4 Word 2004 uses ~20% of the CPU time, it once jumped to 50% while typing, but only once.
Also, it uses ~12% CPU time just sitting there doing nothing, which is a shame :(

When LWC is off, it makes little difference, in the order of ~3%

AppleMatt

[frenetic]

There is a known bug with Live Word Count, which is on by default. It sucks up an incredible amount of cycles to the point of overall sluggishness, and is usually not a useful feature...

It can be turned off in Preferences:View:Live Word Count.

This makes word as snappy as you would expect in vX

Which reminds me...

Can you check in 2004 whether or not LWC is enabled by default, and if it still sucks alot of system cycles if it is on?

On a performance related note: is the 2004 version also as CPU hungry as WordX? One of the things which bother me enormously is that Word, even when it's in the background, always stays roundabout 10% CPU usage on my powerbook 12 inch. There is no other application I have which uses such huge ammounts of CPU power by just being in the background. Even virtual PC stays roundabout 5% when in background. It annoys me because this often makes my fan go on... so could any of you chack whether this is any better? Thanks!

(oops sorry, just saw the above post... sorry for inconvenience)

[cgc]

Can it read and write OpenOffice file formats (without MS' embrace-and-extend behavior)? Is it free like OpenOffice? Can it export to PDF in one-click (okay, since OSX can, the point's moot, but if you were stuck with Wintel...)? Does it have a built-in vector graphics drawing program?

Is it $479 better than OpenOffice?

(Note that a full Mac version of OpenOffice is about one year off, but NeoOffice/J -- www.neooffice.org/java/ -- is usable today.)

Student edition "should" be ~$149

[ennerseed]

Ya know I thought for sure Keynote was the clue that Apple would update Appleworks (At least sometime in the last 4 years). I have been holding off on converting my AppleWorks Spreadsheet documents to Excel. Should I just give up and make the switch to MS Office?

[cgc]

I really want Appleworks to be updated...and Palm Desktop as well. Office v.x and 2004 should replace Palm Desktop and at the student price, are reasonable. Have you tried Abiword or one of the other free office things? Mellel is very nice also.

[AppleMatt]

Forgot to say, a nice addition is the preview in the print dialogue;

AppleMatt

[robnbill@]

Are sub-folders now allowed in Contacts?

[AppleMatt]

Just tried the audio recording on the notebook, it's very good. Instant start, instant stop etc etc, and it's very obvious when it's recording, lots of visual feedback.

Also, once you've finished recording the "Toolbox" button on the toolbar pulses red quite quickly, it's very nice, and when you click it a compatibility report comes up saying that other versions of word will not be able to access the audio. There's also a drop-down in which you can choose what to check (Word 97 through 2004 by default) and press "Recheck document" to give you a report of what's not compatible and why. Very slick. Even slicker...there's three buttons below the report; Help, Ignore and...Fix :cool:

Infact, the new notes feature is probably one of the best ideas I've seen in a long time. You know how mail treats absolutely everything as objects? That's exactly how notes does it. You can collapse lists, move lists, move single items. I like it, I just wish my notes were as neat as it in real life.

AppleMatt

[bennetsaysargh]

Forgot to say, a nice addition is the preview in the print dialogue;

AppleMatt
i like that quick preview thing. that looks kick ass.

[impierced]

OK, let me chime in here for a minute regarding the Exchange support in Entourage 2004.

• It's different than the Exchange support (lack thereof) that was introduced in Entrouage 10.1.4.

• Entourage 2004 now uses OWA (Outlook Web Access) to talk to the Exchange server. Can you say web mail via http?

It's a mixed bag if you ask me. First and foremost, it's not a true MAPI client. However, since OWA uses MAPI to communicate to the Exchange server you're getting a client that can talk to your Exchange server that doesn't require IMAP or SMTP.

I've been using it in our large scale Exchange environment for a week now and fine it useful. I would like it to be a little faster, but functionality over speed is the comprimise.

The calendar is still limited to free/busy so you can schedule a meeting against Exchange and make sure all attendes can make it, but you can't lookup someone else's calendar and find where they'll be for the week.

Basically, anything you can do with OWA you can do with a nice GUI wrapper in Entourage 2004. Course your admins have to enable OWA.

[robotrenegade]

I want a shipping date.

[BWhaler]

Please circle one answer for those that have seen the preview:

Long File Names:

YES NO


Thanks. I'd really appreciate an answer on this.

[Spymaniac007]

Actually, MacSpy has the retail version of Microsoft Office 2004: Mac and you can see over 100 screenshots available here: www.macspy.net/

[bennetsaysargh]

Actually, MacSpy has the retail version of Microsoft Office 2004: Mac and you can see over 100 screenshots available here: www.macspy.net/

how did they get the retail version when everyone else has the preview?

[Zaty]

how did they get the retail version when everyone else has the preview?

I doubt it's the retail version. Had MS already finished work on Office 2004, they would announce when it's available. But as far as I know, MS hasn't said when it's shipps yet. Secondly, on one screenshot (on "get info"), it' says something like "unpublished work" next to the copyright sign. It's probably RC1 but not the final version.

[bdkennedy1]

Live Word Count is on by default in Word 2004.
It's not just that, it's overall sluggy. For example, Word v.X starts in 2 bounces. I loose count of how many Word 2004 takes.

On my 867MHz G4 Word 2004 uses ~20% of the CPU time, it once jumped to 50% while typing, but only once.
Also, it uses ~12% CPU time just sitting there doing nothing, which is a shame :(

When LWC is off, it makes little difference, in the order of ~3%

AppleMatt

Ummmm, let's see. It's still in BETA so yeah performance is going to suck.

[Wonder Boy]

Here it is!

the note pad template is awsome!

[AppleMatt]

Please circle one answer for those that have seen the preview:

Long File Names:

YES NO


Thanks. I'd really appreciate an answer on this.

I just saved a file that's title was 56 chars no problem.

AppleMatt

[iEric]

does anyone have MSN Messenger 4 Beta? I'd love to try it out

When is office 04 coming out?

[mustang_dvs]

nevermind, didn't see there were other pages.

[achmafooma]

I thought that MSN messenger didn't work with the Mac. At least that is what it says in the advertisements by Verizon.

MSN messenger works fine with the Mac (if you're into that kind of thing). The Verizon thing (presuming you're talking about DSL) is for the whole MSN application ... browser, email, messenger, etc. all in one... AOL style.

Verizon DSL has some kind of a marketing deal with MSN, where the service comes with the PC version of MSN. They claim that the MSN part doesn't support Mac. Don't know why (since I think there is an MSN for Mac).

Verizon DSL itself works just fine with Macs, and I'm probably glad it didn't auto-install all that MSN crap when I got it.

[surfkw]

LOL.
There's a clue in your screen-shots.

AppleMatt

Yeah, takes one to know one ;)

There are many that recongize that file icon on the desktop, even if it is blurred out!

[marmotte]

In Excel X, when the autocomplete function is on, the suggested autocomplete value appears as a contextual menu above the cell. You then have to use the keyboard to select the value you want and then, when you hit return, the next cell is selected. However, it is the cell below the one you were editing, which, in 99% of the cases, is not the one you want. So you have to go to the cell you want: the one to the right of the cell you were editing, on the same row. All of this is a lot of mouse clicks, selections.

On Windows, the suggested autocomplete value shows us directly in the cell, so when you hit return the value is taken, and the next edited cell is the one to the right, the ne you want. It's only one key.

As you can see, the Mac OS X usability implementation is terribly innefective. When you repeat this over 10-20, 100 cells, the Mac user is much less productive than the Windows user.

Has this been fixed in Excel 2004?

Thanks

MM

[GetGo]

Does Office 2004 open and run faster then previous versions?

[NeoMayhem]

Does Office 2004 open and run faster then previous versions?

Yes, it does.

[vpalvarez]

Forgot to say, a nice addition is the preview in the print dialogue;

AppleMatt
Why hasn't anybody thought of that before. Damn wish I had, its almost brilliant

[vpalvarez]

I just saved a file that's title was 56 chars no problem.

AppleMatt
I don't see why anything longer is really necessary, oh well maybe its a quirky thing

[Ratatoskur]

I'd like to know about Unicode support in Word, Excel and Powerpoint.

If someone could try it out using the Icelandic (Unicode) keyboard setting that would be great.

[Fukui]

I don't see why anything longer is really necessary, oh well maybe its a quirky thing

ProjectNumber-ProjectName-Customer-Propoasal-Revision-Date.doc

for example....

2315-Trinity-Apple-DevelopmentAndDesignGoals-23a-1999.03.21.doc

Its actually very important for some people who organize things in one folder, or like to search for thier files using keywords etc.

[rlw]

I'd like to know about Unicode support in Word, Excel and Powerpoint.

If someone could try it out using the Icelandic (Unicode) keyboard setting that would be great.

Yes, please let us know if it supports Unicode.

Thanks

[sstrasser]

Does the new entourage suport imap better than the previous version?

[AppleMatt]

Ummmm, let's see. It's still in BETA so yeah performance is going to suck.

ummm let's see. Office v.X has had 3 major updates, the first of which containing over 1000 performance enhancements and fixes, and it uses ~12% of the CPU when idle, which if you'd bothered to read the whole thread you would have seen. Explain that away.

Regardless, it's info on the Office 2004 beta, which is what people want. Positive or negative, and most of my posts have been very positive.

AppleMatt

[mikeyredk]

word has lost its define window NOOOOOO...

hopefully it will come back in the final version

[pimentoLoaf]

From the "I don't really have a clue" department:

Salesguy at an Apple Store in Wisconsin says July is the target date for Office 2004.

Microsoft's site says April.

[bennetsaysargh]

i think they said summer of 04 at the keynote, so im gonna go with that.

[superfunkomatic]

sorry, maybe i'm missing something, in all the "excitement" but...
what is the big deal with this release - exchange support that was supposed to happen shortly after the 2000 version? MSN messenger, huh? everything looks the same except now microsoft has created "projects" for tracking everything - which frankly is a concept lost on me. how do any of these features increase your productivity or justify the cost of another 600 dollar hit. it's the same software - just a shine on a turd.

maybe they should strip things back to the essentials and create useable, reliable software.

[Arnold]

Receipts are a non-standard mail feature that is provided by the SERVER (Exchange, in this case), not the CLIENT (Entourage). Therefore, unless you happen to be using an Exchange server and Entourage 2004 PROPERLY supports Exchange, then no.

Thank you very much for your answer. However, a nice freeware exists and generate this feature with Entourage X client. It's called "Return Receipt Script". It works fine with Outlook, Outlook Express (Windows), IncrediMail, Netscape (Mac/Windows), Mozilla (Mac/Windows/Linux), Mozilla Thunderbird (Mac/Windows/Linux), and some others.

The only problem is that it works with Entourage and Mail, only if your correspondant also has that script installed. :(

If anybody is interested, this script is located here:
http://www.weatherradio.info/rrscript/

[pdgnyc85]

OK, let me chime in here for a minute regarding the Exchange support in Entourage 2004.

• It's different than the Exchange support (lack thereof) that was introduced in Entrouage 10.1.4.

• Entourage 2004 now uses OWA (Outlook Web Access) to talk to the Exchange server. Can you say web mail via http?

It's a mixed bag if you ask me. First and foremost, it's not a true MAPI client. However, since OWA uses MAPI to communicate to the Exchange server you're getting a client that can talk to your Exchange server that doesn't require IMAP or SMTP.

I've been using it in our large scale Exchange environment for a week now and fine it useful. I would like it to be a little faster, but functionality over speed is the comprimise.

The calendar is still limited to free/busy so you can schedule a meeting against Exchange and make sure all attendes can make it, but you can't lookup someone else's calendar and find where they'll be for the week.

Basically, anything you can do with OWA you can do with a nice GUI wrapper in Entourage 2004. Course your admins have to enable OWA.

Does this give you full functionality for address books and calendaring? this is the biggest pain in my.... dept. I'm trying to support a group of creatives in a MS oriented comany. I'm desperate to get them calendaring and address book functionality.

Any more details about the Entourage/Exchange issue would be great.

Thanks

[bitfactory]

OK, let me chime in here for a minute regarding the Exchange support in Entourage 2004.

• It's different than the Exchange support (lack thereof) that was introduced in Entrouage 10.1.4.

• Entourage 2004 now uses OWA (Outlook Web Access) to talk to the Exchange server. Can you say web mail via http?

It's a mixed bag if you ask me. First and foremost, it's not a true MAPI client. However, since OWA uses MAPI to communicate to the Exchange server you're getting a client that can talk to your Exchange server that doesn't require IMAP or SMTP.

I've been using it in our large scale Exchange environment for a week now and fine it useful. I would like it to be a little faster, but functionality over speed is the comprimise.

The calendar is still limited to free/busy so you can schedule a meeting against Exchange and make sure all attendes can make it, but you can't lookup someone else's calendar and find where they'll be for the week.

Basically, anything you can do with OWA you can do with a nice GUI wrapper in Entourage 2004. Course your admins have to enable OWA.

and let me chime in real quick to say OWA sucks.

folks, Entourage in 2004 is NOT a real exchange client. Outlook 2001 in Classic is still the closest you're going to get.

[impierced]

Does this give you full functionality for address books and calendaring? this is the biggest pain in my.... dept. I'm trying to support a group of creatives in a MS oriented comany. I'm desperate to get them calendaring and address book functionality.

Any more details about the Entourage/Exchange issue would be great.

Thanks

Contacts syncing works great. Calendars are limited to the functionality of free/busy.

You can check and see if Tom and Sally are free or busy at 2:00PM, April 1, 2004 and shedule a meeting accordingly. However, if say Sally is busy at that time you cannot find out where she will be, just that she isn't available at that time.

[impierced]

and let me chime in real quick to say OWA sucks.

folks, Entourage in 2004 is NOT a real exchange client. Outlook 2001 in Classic is still the closest you're going to get.

And when your Exchange administrators decide that NTLMv1 is an unacceptable security risk you'll find that you no longer have a real Exchange client on the Mac at all.

[pdgnyc85]

The free/busy is good. you can't see more with the PC app either.

Generally we use the Request meeting, Accept meeting functionality. Plus being able to look at department folders/calendars.

I'm not expecting the world (as this is MS) but if I can get the basic functionality I'm fine. Not Great but definately fine.

[pdgnyc85]

And when your Exchange administrators decide that NTLMv1 is an unacceptable security risk you'll find that you no longer have a real Exchange client on the Mac at all.


What's the nature of that security risk??

[impierced]

What's the nature of that security risk??

Outlook 2001 for Mac (Classic) uses NTLM for it's authentication. NTLM is farily easy to crack and as such many administrators are choosing to disable it.

[dudeami]

OK, let me chime in here for a minute regarding the Exchange support in Entourage 2004.

• It's different than the Exchange support (lack thereof) that was introduced in Entrouage 10.1.4.

• Entourage 2004 now uses OWA (Outlook Web Access) to talk to the Exchange server. Can you say web mail via http?

It's a mixed bag if you ask me. First and foremost, it's not a true MAPI client. However, since OWA uses MAPI to communicate to the Exchange server you're getting a client that can talk to your Exchange server that doesn't require IMAP or SMTP.

I've been using it in our large scale Exchange environment for a week now and fine it useful. I would like it to be a little faster, but functionality over speed is the comprimise.

The calendar is still limited to free/busy so you can schedule a meeting against Exchange and make sure all attendes can make it, but you can't lookup someone else's calendar and find where they'll be for the week.

Basically, anything you can do with OWA you can do with a nice GUI wrapper in Entourage 2004. Course your admins have to enable OWA.

Exchange 2000 and Exchange 2003 will not use MAPI for OWA, this was done in Exchange 5.5 OWA server. Exchange 2000 and 2003 front-end servers will communicate using the same protocol that the client is using. For example if you are connecting to OWA using http or https it will connect to the back-end server using http, if you are using a POP3 client to access email through the front-end server it will use POP3 to access the back-end server where your mailbox is located. It will not take your http connection and make MAPI calls to the back-end server.

[DaBuzz]

Receipts are a non-standard mail feature that is provided by the SERVER (Exchange, in this case), not the CLIENT (Entourage). Therefore, unless you happen to be using an Exchange server and Entourage 2004 PROPERLY supports Exchange, then no.

Not quite true. A client can attach a return receipt request; then it will depend on the server (Domino, Exchange, sendmail, etc) RECEIVING the message whether it supports SMTP return receipts - some systems do, some don't. Outlook has a Return Receipt feature - whether you get one or not depends, again, on whether the recipient's mail server will support it.

Entourage does have a kludge for return receipts, but it requires you create a duplicate account, and in the Options tab under Headers, put Disposition-Notification-To, and enter the account you want a return receipt to arrive.

[aer_mini]

Well, Mail.app does support the mail of Exchange....



Not quite. Mail.app uses IMAP and SMTP to connect to the Exchange server, just like EntouRAGE version X uses. It also works with Exchange 5.5, whereas using the Exchange tab on EntouRAGE's Account settings does not (you have to use IMAP). Entourage is a poor poor choice for use with environments where Exchange servers are. It is exceptionally terrible for Networked Home Folders in a Mac OS X managed client environment because the folks at Mac BU have coded Entourage (and all Officev.X apps) to write to the preference file every second. Since this is happening over the network, you have typing delays when composing messages (even on 1 GHZ eMacs and Powerbooks!!) Mail.app is a much better choice for email in an Exchange environment- it is just a drag that iCal and Address Book isn't integrated into Mail.app a little better. But it is a shame that the Outlook Group at MS won't share the proprietary MAPI engine of the Exchange/Outlook package with the MacBU. I am assuming that is what is happening here. Trust me- Entourage is a headache if you have an Exchange server and it plain sucks if you have Mac OS X Networked Home Folders!!! :(

[Kosjer d]

another question about entourage, i am asking myself for quite a while... will the email preview window be based onto apples webcore??? for the sake of reliabilty and performance... cuz in entourage x the preview sucks and crashes sometimes on html mails .... anybody knows? cheers k:d

[Arnold]

[Arnold]

Not quite true. A client can attach a return receipt request; then it will depend on the server (Domino, Exchange, sendmail, etc) RECEIVING the message whether it supports SMTP return receipts - some systems do, some don't. Outlook has a Return Receipt feature - whether you get one or not depends, again, on whether the recipient's mail server will support it.

Entourage does have a kludge for return receipts, but it requires you create a duplicate account, and in the Options tab under Headers, put Disposition-Notification-To, and enter the account you want a return receipt to arrive.

I agree with you. You probably haven't seen my earlier reply to wrldwzrd89:

Thank you very much for your answer. However, a nice freeware does exist and generates this feature with Entourage X client (without any obligation of duplicating accounts). It is called "Return Receipt Script". It works fine with Outlook, Outlook Express (Windows), IncrediMail, Netscape (Mac/Windows), Mozilla (Mac/Windows/Linux), Mozilla Thunderbird (Mac/Windows/Linux), and some others.

The only problem is that it works with Entourage and Mail, only if your correspondant also has that script installed.

If anybody is interested, this script is located here:
http://www.weatherradio.info/rrscript :cool:

[dzurn]

and let me chime in real quick to say OWA sucks.

folks, Entourage in 2004 is NOT a real exchange client. Outlook 2001 in Classic is still the closest you're going to get.

So after about 5 years, Microsoft's email programs still can't work with Microsoft's email programs. Out-F&*%ing-Standing! ! ! :mad:

And sometimes the company Exchange Administrators turn off the Mac's authentication stream because the *Macs* are insecure? ROTFLMAppleOff!

[RoadKill]

So after about 5 years, Microsoft's email programs still can't work with Microsoft's email programs. Out-F&*%ing-Standing! ! ! :mad:

And sometimes the company Exchange Administrators turn off the Mac's authentication stream because the *Macs* are insecure? ROTFLMAppleOff!

I am a administrator. I allow entourage or mail to connect to our exchange but I impose mailbox size limits very strictly (due to restoring a dead exchange with lots of very large mailboxes) We also make use of Public Folders. This means that I require Outlook 2001 and classic environment installed so that users can create .pst files in order to archive their mail and post to public folders.

This is a practice I was hoping to stop. Unless this is the case, no upgrade bucks for Bill from my company.

One thing I found out on winblows powerpoint don't know if it happens on macs yet. Link in a movie with sound in stereo to your presentation. When you click it, sound only comes out of one channnel!!!

[DaBuzz]

I agree with you. You probably haven't seen my earlier reply to wrldwzrd89:

Thank you very much for your answer. However, a nice freeware does exist and generates this feature with Entourage X client (without any obligation of duplicating accounts). It is called "Return Receipt Script". It works fine with Outlook, Outlook Express (Windows), IncrediMail, Netscape (Mac/Windows), Mozilla (Mac/Windows/Linux), Mozilla Thunderbird (Mac/Windows/Linux), and some others.

The only problem is that it works with Entourage and Mail, only if your correspondant also has that script installed.

If anybody is interested, this script is located here:
http://www.weatherradio.info/rrscript :cool:

Yes; I forgot to say that if you put the Disposition-Notification-To, you attach a return receipt request for all mail. You can create a separate account to use only for return receipts.

I couldn't download the script on that page: says can't find URL.

[Macnerd1984]

No, it doesn't. It does allow you to import all your folders, sigs and preferences from the Apple Mail client, but not the address book.

Entourage does have a Junk Email feature that is very similiar to the junk email feature found in the Apple Mail program.

Bah! How stupid is that? :mad:

I mean, they could allow the option to hook it into the Address book and save their users a load of hassle. Instead we're all locked into what THEY decide we should use as an address book and synching the two is going to be a nightmare (still). Entourage doesn't share it's address book with other apps so it is still isolated. Yet again, more years of having to keep 2 address books current.......

Thanks for the reply anyway.

[Arnold]

Yes; I forgot to say that if you put the Disposition-Notification-To, you attach a return receipt request for all mail. You can create a separate account to use only for return receipts.

I couldn't download the script on that page: says can't find URL.

I am sorry, but the link works fine! I just tried...