CAD software

[powerdave]

I'm on the lookout for a CAD program. I've never used CAD before so I was hoping for some pointers from you guys!
I'm currently studying for a degree in Aeronautical Eng and I've done a year so far. I'll be doing CAD next year, and as far as I know, the package they use is PTC Pro Desktop - at least to start off with. So can anyone recommend anything for me to get with that in mind?
Really I just want to get a feel for it, but if I could find something where it'd be similar enough to the software I've gotta use for uni it would obviously be a plus.

Thanks!

[MacsAreGod]

My dad is an architect and he uses vectorworks 11. I like to mess around with it. i dunno if its like that program you are talking about but i love vector works.

[Macky-Mac]

check out www.architosh.com. While it's aimed primarily at architects using CAD on Macs, you'll find info on CAD programs that will be useful for uses other than architecture

[AdamZ]

As an architectural student, I too needed some CAD software for use on my Mac. The architect community is still stuck in the horrible 2D world of AutoCad unfortunatly. Since AutoCad does not work on a Mac, I was forced to research other options. I have been using Vectorworks 10 for two years now and recommend it continuously to all my fellow students, as they see my plans and renderings. Vectorworks has different versions for what you may need to work on such as Mechanical, Architecture, or get all of them. CAD changed the world and got us to put our pencils down, programs like Vectorworks are slowly changing the face of drafting once again.

[frank5050]

I've used Vectorworks (and it's predecessor MiniCAD) for some time and have been happy with it. I've worked with a few Architecture firms who use PowerCadd (by Engineered Software) but the overwelming choice has to be AutoCad (and it does do 3D). Too bad it's PC only.

[JFreak]

i have heard autodesk is planning a mac port, but has not decided about it yet. go to their site and ask for the mac version, and the more you do it the better - it would be a great thing to get autocad for macintosh ;)

[Doraemon]

AutoCAD for MacOS X was reported to become reality over a year ago. Therefore, although I am still hoping, I don't think it will be released.

[JFreak]

in my knowledge, the report was about an evaluation whether the port would be beneficial for autodesk - not an announcement of a mac port. however the wording in that report made many (me included) to first think of a release announcement, but reading the report again made me realize it wasn't it.

the decision is not yet made, so keep asking for it and it may become reality.

[Fender2112]

I started years ago with the 2D version Blueprint which evolved to MiniCAD and now Vectorworks. It's a really good program that has good user based (mail list and forum) support. It has good 3D and rendering support. I believe it's compatible with RenderMan which is Apples 3D/rendering software.

The only drawback it the lack of builtin plotter support. If you have a plotter this is not a problem. If you use a plotting service you'll have to find a plot driver that is compatible with both the OS X and the service's system

[Maxicek]

Pro-Desktop is a 3D solid modelling CAD package. Most of the suggestions above are 2D packages, so will not help you much. You will find more details on Pro-Desktop at www.ptc.com. The Mac CAD scene seems mainly focussed on architecture.

I use Pro-Engineer at work on PCs. I don't think there is much choice in the Mac 3D CAD scene, Form-Z (www.autodessys.com) is one package that I know was around a few years back. Most 3D CAD packages are PC only. Ironically, back in the day when my aged 8200/120 was cutting edge I used Pro-Engineer on a Unix Silicon Graphics Indigo II Workstation. Now Macs are Unix based, but most of the big 3D CAD packages are still not available.

One piece of good news though is that I did read one of the most popular 3D solid modelling kernels has been ported to OSX. But no news yet of someone developing a package around it.

It's not a piece of advice that I like to give, but if your college course is CAD based, get your self a PC. I think you can download Pro-Desktop for free. A minimum spec PC 512MB RAM and a half-way decent graphics card is usually OK for CAD. Keep you Mac for everything else.

Hope this helps.

[Studawg7]

Being a mechE grad student who uses lots of 3D CAD/FEA software I totally agree. When it comes to CAD and CAE, its a PC world. Funny, I too learned Pro/E on Sun UltraSpark stations. They were slick, its unfortunate the PC started to take over in this realm b/c my comp at school, though blazingly fast and able, just isnt as stable, even with windows 2000.

cheers and best of luck to you

[goodwill]

Do you think AutoCAD will ever be released on Macs! I sure hope so. I mean now with the 30in Display and the PowerMac G5 at 2.5GHZ and a 256mb Graphics Card, do you realize how much damage Apple could do to any cities skyline or any subdivision. We'd all be living in spaceships that hovered, floated and could transport us I'd think haha. Plus, imagine the chicks we could pick up. :)

[barnabythebear]

Hi,

I use Ashlars Argon on the mac. It's a great program. Solids and nurbs surfaces. If also allows 2d draughting. You wern't too specific about what you intend to use CAD for. If it 2d detailing then Vectorworks is great but if you need to create complex 3d surfaces you really need one of the following:

Solidthinking
FormZ
Argon,Zeon or Cobalt
Pro Desktop

ta

nige.

[Snowy_River]

I would like to respectfully disagree with the description of VectorWorks as just a 2D drafting package. I'm a mechanical engineer, and I use it on a daily basis. It is a highly effective 3D solid modeling package. It also has excellent drafting capabilities, especially with the addition of viewports and 2D sheet layers. It also has extensive NURBS surface capabilities.

Now, all of that said, it is not, necessarily, as powerful a modeling package as things like Pro/E, Inventor, or SolidWorks, but it's a pretty good match against AutoCAD, and even Mechanical Desktop, at a fraction of the cost.

[metfuel]

AutoCAD for MacOS X was reported to become reality over a year ago. Therefore, although I am still hoping, I don't think it will be released.


no it hasn't been confirmed. There has been an online potition for one I was selected by autodesk to fill out a questionarie asking how it would benefit autodesk to make the move. They emailed me back saying that there aren't any official plans to do it but wanted to collect the info. The only thing that autodesk has confirmed is an application that will read their drawing formats kinda like an adobe acrobat reader for drawings.

[metfuel]

A program that would run very smoothly using os x unix would be unigraphics. I used this at my college on sun microsystem stations that were slower than my powerbook and it performed well. Don't get me wrong when I say that cause UG is a very powerful CAD system.

[jaromski]

unfortunately, for me, i have been using autocad since the old dos release 12. now i am using autocad2002 but i have always been a mac guy at heart. the 23" cinema display on my cad workstation sure makes drafting seem less like work. i design homes, and the longer i use autocad, the longer i will use autocad. why bother once you have a few hundred drawings, kinda knocks the wind out of your sails if there is any migration cost, any at all, it just wouldn't be worth it.

however, don't distress, for i think our collective salvation will come, but at a price. this is the price- virtual pc / vmware. i have successfully run autocad2002 under linux using vmware, and it isn't as snappy (well what is under emulation @ 1920x1280) but i was mildly surpised that it wasn't too dreadful, but pretty dreadful for production cad work. i think the next really big bump will come if the cell processor becomes an end user reality. imagine mac osx running on your own cell machine? but the g5 is a nice chip, and may just have enough juice to run acad acceptably under vpc. maybe.

the other solution is remote display, but that is slow (i think the network latency kills it) i have tried remote desktop but that is even slower/choppier than vmware. i haven't tried win4lin (windows to linux bridgeware) but that seems the best non-windows acad solution at the moment. but why pay win4lin 90/machine, god may as well just buy win2k pro. (winxp bad) occum's razor gets ya there doesn't it.

i was hoping somebody here had success running acad on mac, if somebody figures it out, let me know?

jaromski

[Maxicek]

More info on the Parasolid modelling kernel being released for OSX

http://www.cadserver.co.uk/common/viewer/archive/2004/Apr/6/news1.phtm

[Snowy_River]

unfortunately, for me, i have been using autocad since the old dos release 12. now i am using autocad2002 but i have always been a mac guy at heart...

For what it's worth, everyone that I know who's moved from ACAD to VectorWorks (regardless of what platform they choose to use, as VectorWorks is cross platform) has found that VectorWorks offers a better user interface, equal functionality (or better) for a fraction of the cost...

AutoCAD 2005 $3500
VectorWorks 11 $800

I think, regardless of which platform I was on, I know which I'd choose...

[metfuel]

[QUOTE=

AutoCAD 2005 $3500
VectorWorks 11 $800
[/QUOTE]

ahhh just take a couple college courses (or find a college student to use)
go to the academic superstore and buy autocad life liscence for about $350.

[mkrishnan]

I'm currently studying for a degree in Aeronautical Eng and I've done a year so far. I'll be doing CAD next year, and as far as I know, the package they use is PTC Pro Desktop - at least to start off with.

Just to throw in a totally different suggestion...how fast is your internet connection? Do you need to be able to travel with the software?

If the school uses Unix boxes for PTC, is there any feasibility in running a remote X11 session on your Mac, and just running PTC remotely? It might even be possible to do the same with boxes running NT or XP Pro using an RDC.

The reason I bring this up is that my experience is that in the big engineering markets (automotive, aerospace, electronics), there is often a lot of pressure to certain CAD packages. Spending your time learning one like Pro-E, Catia, UG, etc, that is actually used in the field is probably a better investment than learning an equally good package the field doesn't use.

I don't think this applies outside of the major biz markets though -- so if you don't want to work for/with the biggest aero companies like Airbus and Boeing, its probably not a big deal.

Anyway, second reason is also, from what I understand of PTC they're moving more and more in the direction of engineering lifecycle management (with WinChill) and so there may be some big nuisances associated with moving back and forth between CAD systems.

I don't know specifically about PTC, but with UG, importing 3D solids from other packages is a big PITA. :(

[abhishekit]

Just to throw in a totally different suggestion...how fast is your internet connection? Do you need to be able to travel with the software?

If the school uses Unix boxes for PTC, is there any feasibility in running a remote X11 session on your Mac, and just running PTC remotely? It might even be possible to do the same with boxes running NT or XP Pro using an RDC.



Its a good suggestion. but it may be slow. I used to run remote X11 session for running MATLAB on my office Linux box, from my iBook. But the 'windowing' was very slow, ie, it would take much time to change windows.
And as Pro/E is much heavier than MATLAB, it could be even slower.

I had heard long time back that AutoCad was being developed for Mac too. Don't know how far did that progress though.

[powerdave]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. I read through a few other threads on different forums and it doesnt seem straight forward to get a good 3D CAD package.
I only actually do one semster of CAD directly, I will have a module called Aircraft Design, but to be honest, I dont know what that will entail so i'm not thinking about it for the time being.. its not for another year or so anyway!
My University isnt very Mac friendly, unfortunately. But on the other hand, my course has a dedicated lab with PCs running all the programs we need so it won't be too inconvenient for me to use them for things like CAD. They're all Win2000 by the way, so the Unix / X11 suggestion won't do unfortunately!

I'll take a look at Form-Z anyway, all i wanted was a feel for it and maybe even get a bit of a head start for when i actually have use the PTC programs for my course. And thanks mkrishnan for the Aero related info, its all worth keeping in mind. I have the option of doing some coop work-placement around this time next year, and if I even got an interview with Boeing, its always good to to able to say you're familiar with the stuff they use, if only just barely!

Anyway, cheers for the all the help!

David

[mkrishnan]

Good luck!

BTW, the software to do graphical remote login to windows is:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c58ace91-d209-4b2b-82ff-beae4e20c09f&displaylang=en

But AFAIK its not like X11 -- on Unix, pretty much any machine with X11 can accommodate remote login, unless its been disabled for security, but on Windows, I think the computer has to specifically run a service it would not normally be running.

And like Abhishekit said, its prolly too slow.

[Snowy_River]

AutoCAD 2005 $3500
VectorWorks 11 $800


ahhh just take a couple college courses (or find a college student to use)
go to the academic superstore and buy autocad life liscence for about $350.

Hmm... and you can get educational pricing on VectorWorks, too. It's only $195 for the entire industrial series, VW Architect, VW Mechanical, VW Spotlight, VW Landmark, and RenderWorks. That's like getting Architectural Desktop, Mechanical Desktop, a photo renderer, and more. So far as I can see, no matter how you cut it, the only advantage the ACAD has over VW is marketshare.

P.S. VW can read and write DWG/DXF.

[Snowy_River]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. I read through a few other threads on different forums and it doesnt seem straight forward to get a good 3D CAD package.
I only actually do one semster of CAD directly...

If you're only going to do one semester of CAD, I'd recommend that the CAD application you get for yourself be the one that'll run on your platform of choice. This would be something you'll use for your own projects, for assistance with class work, etc. During that one semester, you'll use whatever the school is using. When you get out into the 'real world' you'll use whatever your employer wants you to use. Most of the basic principles are pretty universal across different CAD programs, so experience with one can apply to another, as conceptual understanding of a CAD environment, if nothing else.

I'll take a look at Form-Z anyway...

A word of warning...
Form-Z is NOT a CAD program. It's a modeling program. There is a BIG difference. I know engineers who use Form-Z, but it is a supplemental application to their primary CAD program. If CAD is what you're looking for, don't go to Form-Z.

...get a bit of a head start for when i actually have use the PTC programs for my course...

The best way to get a head start on the course would be to go in and work with PTC. As a novice, you're going to spend most of your time getting to know the user interface, and that's something that differs dramatically from one program to another. From the conceptual stand point, any good basic CAD program will do the trick.

Anyway, cheers for the all the help!

David

You're welcome. Good luck!

[jaromski]

For what it's worth, everyone that I know who's moved from ACAD to VectorWorks (regardless of what platform they choose to use, as VectorWorks is cross platform) has found that VectorWorks offers a better user interface, equal functionality (or better) for a fraction of the cost...

AutoCAD 2005 $3500
VectorWorks 11 $800

I think, regardless of which platform I was on, I know which I'd choose...

Switching CAD packages is a big deal. I am sure their DWG importer works swell, but I have never seen a non-AutoCAD CAD package import a "native" AutoCAD dwg with 100% efficacy. Something is always jacked. The dimensions , some text style, just enough to really tweak your sensibilities. But just because I haven't "seen" it in action doesn't mean there is a solution out there that works. Let's just say I am highly-suspicious of any claims that say 100% compatible with Autocad dwg. Anything less than 100% just won't cut the mustard once you have the inertia of a few hundred drawings in your system.

At this point it makes no sense to me to migrate to a different solution. I do realize that AutoCAD charges a premium for their products, and I am not arguing that there are other ways to skin a cat, I am just saying that it isn't really cost effective for me to switch. Plus, I have written a great deal of LSIP software to customize my "Autocad experience" for serious production. AutoCAD, out of the box, is pretty close to worthless when it comes to production. But, the customization really makes it so you can take quantum leaps forward in production and response times. And that is how you can run a business and pay your bills at the end of the day. And a one-time cost of 3500 is just the cost of doing business. Now I would agree with you if it was an annual/recurring subscription cost, that would definately tip the scales to dumping AutoCAD. But a one-time cost is peanuts for any business/professional. Plus, you can always use LT for $700 if you don't want to use AutoCAD's archaic 3D subsystem. You can even get 3rd party lisp from drcauto for $300 so $1000/machine is completely do-able.

Does VectorWorks even have a command line? I am a command line junkie, and it may be harder at first, but nothing compares once you get the commands memorized. Just like playing the piano, your muscles just remember commands and menu-driven CAD just can't compete.

Just my two cents, I could be completely off-kilter on this one.

jaromski

[Snowy_River]

Switching CAD packages is a big deal. I am sure their DWG importer works swell, but I have never seen a non-AutoCAD CAD package import a "native" AutoCAD dwg with 100% efficacy. Something is always jacked. The dimensions , some text style, just enough to really tweak your sensibilities. But just because I haven't "seen" it in action doesn't mean there is a solution out there that works. Let's just say I am highly-suspicious of any claims that say 100% compatible with Autocad dwg. Anything less than 100% just won't cut the mustard once you have the inertia of a few hundred drawings in your system.

At this point it makes no sense to me to migrate to a different solution. I do realize that AutoCAD charges a premium for their products, and I am not arguing that there are other ways to skin a cat, I am just saying that it isn't really cost effective for me to switch. Plus, I have written a great deal of LSIP software to customize my "Autocad experience" for serious production. AutoCAD, out of the box, is pretty close to worthless when it comes to production. But, the customization really makes it so you can take quantum leaps forward in production and response times. And that is how you can run a business and pay your bills at the end of the day. And a one-time cost of 3500 is just the cost of doing business. Now I would agree with you if it was an annual/recurring subscription cost, that would definately tip the scales to dumping AutoCAD. But a one-time cost is peanuts for any business/professional. Plus, you can always use LT for $700 if you don't want to use AutoCAD's archaic 3D subsystem. You can even get 3rd party lisp from drcauto for $300 so $1000/machine is completely do-able.

Does VectorWorks even have a command line? I am a command line junkie, and it may be harder at first, but nothing compares once you get the commands memorized. Just like playing the piano, your muscles just remember commands and menu-driven CAD just can't compete.

Just my two cents, I could be completely off-kilter on this one.

jaromski

There is one, and only one, argument that you put forward that I'd be inclined to agree with. That is your LISP customizations. It would be a hard pill to swallow to have to rewrite those in VectorScript. Yes, VW has its own scripting language, as well as a complete SDK, if you want to do things that go a bit beyond the scripting language's capabilities and can write a little C++.

While it's true that VW's DWG import is not flawless, it must also be pointed out that neither is ACAD's. I've had a devil of a time with trying to open R12 ACAD files in R14, or R14 files in 2000i. So, using that as a reason for not converting is a little weak. Certainly, VW opens older ACAD files almost completely flawlessly, in my experience. Certainly as well as ACAD itself. It's only when you get up to the latest version, when VW hasn't completely adapted to whatever changes have been implemented in the ACAD file format, that there are some bugs that crop up.

As for the cost question, well, it's not a one-time cost, unless you're never planning on upgrading. Yes, the upgrade isn't as much as the full purchase price, but the same is true of VW. However, overall, these aren't issues to be hashed over too much. As you said, this is part of the cost of doing business, and the right tool is easily worth a few thousand if it helps you get the job done fast and better.

The fact that ACAD Lt is price competitive with VW is such a joke to me. VW is a complete 2D/3D modeling and drafting environment (the 3D in VW is worlds better than that in basic ACAD), whereas ACAD Lt is really nothing more than a program to draw lines and circles.

And, to answer your final question, no, VW doesn't have a command line. VW handles the UI through a completely customizable keyboard shortcut/menu/tool palette workspace. Having worked extensively with both (five years using ACAD and eight years using VW), I can freely say that both are highly effective means of providing an interface. Personally, I prefer VWs method. On the whole, there are fewer keystrokes to get the exact same job done.

In any event, there's no denying that ACAD is an effective tool. I simply say it's not worth the money, and it pales in comparison to some of the other tools that are on the market for a lot less.

[jaromski]

There is one, and only one, argument that you put forward that I'd be inclined to agree with. That is your LISP customizations. It would be a hard pill to swallow to have to rewrite those in VectorScript. Yes, VW has its own scripting language, as well as a complete SDK, if you want to do things that go a bit beyond the scripting language's capabilities and can write a little C++.

While it's true that VW's DWG import is not flawless, it must also be pointed out that neither is ACAD's. I've had a devil of a time with trying to open R12 ACAD files in R14, or R14 files in 2000i. So, using that as a reason for not converting is a little weak. Certainly, VW opens older ACAD files almost completely flawlessly, in my experience. Certainly as well as ACAD itself. It's only when you get up to the latest version, when VW hasn't completely adapted to whatever changes have been implemented in the ACAD file format, that there are some bugs that crop up.

As for the cost question, well, it's not a one-time cost, unless you're never planning on upgrading. Yes, the upgrade isn't as much as the full purchase price, but the same is true of VW. However, overall, these aren't issues to be hashed over too much. As you said, this is part of the cost of doing business, and the right tool is easily worth a few thousand if it helps you get the job done fast and better.

The fact that ACAD Lt is price competitive with VW is such a joke to me. VW is a complete 2D/3D modeling and drafting environment (the 3D in VW is worlds better than that in basic ACAD), whereas ACAD Lt is really nothing more than a program to draw lines and circles.

And, to answer your final question, no, VW doesn't have a command line. VW handles the UI through a completely customizable keyboard shortcut/menu/tool palette workspace. Having worked extensively with both (five years using ACAD and eight years using VW), I can freely say that both are highly effective means of providing an interface. Personally, I prefer VWs method. On the whole, there are fewer keystrokes to get the exact same job done.

In any event, there's no denying that ACAD is an effective tool. I simply say it's not worth the money, and it pales in comparison to some of the other tools that are on the market for a lot less.

Well, to be honest, I haven't used enough of the other tools to make a fair comparison which is better. You have tried both, I have only tried AutoCAD. I agree that AutoCAD is overpriced, and IMO, stifled innovation with their death grip on the CAD industry. If I started anew I can't say I would pick AutoCAD. But it is what I learned as a part-time job to make some money in high school. I have always thought AutoCAD was dreadful out of the box, the reality is customization (via LISP and all the other ARX/VBA stuff) can make or break the whole package.

In fact, the LISP routines I wrote simply cut down on keystrokes for the most -used operations, stuff like switching layers on/off, locking layers, and all the other functions. Let's just say it wasn't rocket science, but it has paid huge dividends throughout the years.

Mainly my issue is with inertia. I have too many drawings that I just don't have time to convert, nor the inclination. I know the longer I use ACAD the more tied I become to it, but my engineers (civil and structural) all use AutoCAD; it is just impractical for me to switch.

I do realize there is an upgrade cost, Autodesk needs some recurring revenue so they release the same product with a few more bells and whistles every year/two. But I stopped upgrading at AutoCAD 2002 because I don't need additional features. It works well enough to get the job done, and I have no interest in "upgrading" to XP from 2000. It is just a production machine to me. What will be interesting is when VPC for the G5 comes out, then maybe I can "upgrade" to a VPC. Now that would be swell.

I just am getting to that breaking point with Windows where I want to chuck the whole machine with the viruses and bloatware. I love Macs/Unix.

Oh well,

jaromski :)

[Pandakin]

This topic really highlights what i have been thinking about a lot recently - switching back to Windows. As a product design student, it just seems that CAD companies don't take OS X seriously. We have had OS X out for ages now and still we don't have many 3d cad packages, look at Rhino, 3D Studio Max, Alias Wavefront StudioTools, Pro/E. NONE are avaialble on mac and this is really disappointing. It makes doing CAD terrible. You folks can shout as much as u want about vectorworks but autocad is the standard. And have u seen the quality of the rendering architecture within Vectorworks? Does it support raydiosity? No. Did you know that Apple's Product Development teams use pcs to design their next generation hardware. I think it is time to see Apple moving into the 3d area or they are gonna loose a whole bunch of customers. Btw: Alias deserves a kick up the backside for releasing Maya Complete years later.

Do mac users deserve second class products like ashlar vellum's cobalt nope - i think apple should do something fast. Cos however nice the mac is all my class has just switched from macs to pcs. :(

[mkrishnan]

Do mac users deserve second class products like ashlar vellum's cobalt nope - i think apple should do something fast. Cos however nice the mac is all my class has just switched from macs to pcs. :(

I totally agree it would be good for Apple to play hin this market.

So I'm just curious...for the major areas that use CAD...aerospace, mechanical engineering, architecture, electrical engineering, 3D animation...to what extent is a multi-platform environment common?

My direct experience in Automotive and 2nd hand info on Aerospace is that pure PC environments are very rare -- that there are almost always some kind of Unix boxes present (usually Solaris).

What's it like in the other fields? Same? I'm guessing Architecture FWIW is different -- I'm guessing Unix boxes never got popular in that world.

[Snowy_River]

It makes doing CAD terrible.

No, it doesn't. It means that your choices are more limited, but if you have a program that you like working with, then it doesn't mean anything about the quality of doing CAD on the Mac.

You folks can shout as much as u want about vectorworks but autocad is the standard.

Well, by that argument, you can shout as much as you want about Mac, but Windows is the standard. So, if using the 'standard' is that important to you, the by all means use AutoCAD on Windows. Sheesh.

And have u seen the quality of the rendering architecture within Vectorworks?

Well, as I work with VW almost every day, yes I have seen the rendering capabilities. Have you? How about these:

http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/res_build/gfx/tripp3.jpg
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/com_arch/gfx/cristia2.jpg
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/com_arch/gfx/Recepcion%20T.jpg
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/res_build/gfx/tripp.JPG
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/theat_ltg/gfx/thirdlook.jpg
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/mech_engin/gfx/NewPumpStation.jpg
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/mech_engin/gfx/myron_pavlacka.jpg
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/other_design/gfx/RO1.jpg
http://www.nemetschek.net/gallery/other_design/gfx/donley.JPG

Does it support raydiosity?

No, but as the above examples show, raydiosity isn't everything. And, if you need more powerful rendering, it's not hard to get. Art•Lantis is available on the Mac, and with it you can get that tiny bit closer to 'true photo realism' that you seem to think is so important, and get results like

http://www.abvent.com/fr/logiciels/artlantis/images/montgomery_gd.jpg

In general, VW is very competitive with ACAD on a feature-to-feature basis, and is extremely more economical. If you feel the need to be working on the 'standard' (which is rarely synonymous with 'best'), then work on a PC using ACAD. But, in any event, don't try to come in here and put things down because they aren't the 'standard'. You're preaching to the wrong people here.

What's that old saying? "Think Different".... Hmm...

[wPod]

In general, VW is very competitive with ACAD on a feature-to-feature basis, and is extremely more economical. If you feel the need to be working on the 'standard' (which is rarely synonymous with 'best'), then work on a PC using ACAD. But, in any event, don't try to come in here and put things down because they aren't the 'standard'. You're preaching to the wrong people here.

What's that old saying? "Think Different".... Hmm...

ahhh standards. . . how evil they are. im an ME and use autocad everyday. i dont know anyone i work with that doest complain about microsoft at least once a day. autocad and other big cad companies would rock if theyd ever port to mac. think about it, CAD in general is a graphical representation of objets and what better computer system for graphics than a mac?!!!!! not to mention much more stable! unfortunatly every other company we work with, mostly architects, use autocad, so we MUST use autocad as well, otherwise we would waste tons and tons of money converting or re-drawing much of the work. as nice as VW looks and probably is, quite simply autocad must make a mac version otherwise . . . at least here in texas. . . no autocad users would touch a mac! (the day autocad comes out for mac i am having the company i work for buy me the most tricked out mac with a 30" display)

[Snowy_River]

ahhh standards. . . how evil they are. im an ME and use autocad everyday. i dont know anyone i work with that doest complain about microsoft at least once a day. autocad and other big cad companies would rock if theyd ever port to mac. think about it, CAD in general is a graphical representation of objets and what better computer system for graphics than a mac?!!!!! not to mention much more stable! unfortunatly every other company we work with, mostly architects, use autocad, so we MUST use autocad as well, otherwise we would waste tons and tons of money converting or re-drawing much of the work. as nice as VW looks and probably is, quite simply autocad must make a mac version otherwise . . . at least here in texas. . . no autocad users would touch a mac! (the day autocad comes out for mac i am having the company i work for buy me the most tricked out mac with a 30" display)

I understand your reasoning for staying with ACAD. Compatibility is not an insignificant issue. However, I know many VW users that successfully navigate the compatibility issue with ACAD and other applications. I've dealt with conversions to and from ACAD, ProE, SolidWorks, and others.

As it is, I doubt that AutoDesk will put out a new Mac version of AutoCAD, as they are tending to move their advanced products away from AutoCAD. I've read that AutoDesk eventually will be eliminating AutoCAD, leaving only AutoCAD Lt, and their advanced products (Revit, Inventor, etc.). A program that is being phased out is not likely to be ported. Inventor and Revit are both rumored to have alpha versions on Mac OS X, but whether these will see the light of day remains to be seen.

[susansan]

hi all,

does anyone have any reccomendations on a CAD program? I just made the switch from PC to mac. I used Rhino on my pc and i'm just now discovering that it does not work on mac (unless you use virtual PC, which is a total dog). I need something that's NURBS based and produces machinable models - meaning it HAS to be accurate. I do jewelry design and when I used Rhino, I could easily bring my files into a CAM program and mill straight from there. no extra CAD programs needed. i've read up on some 3D modelers, but what's really confusing is that some websites call them CAD, while others say they integrate with CAD. i've looked at vectorworks, amapi 7 pro, and solidthinking. vectorworks doesn't have enough NURBS capability and i'm not sure i like amapi pro. solidthinking looks pretty good, but again it's one of those ones that says "integrates with CAD". any advice is really appreciated!