When will Safari be better than Firefox?

[broken_keyboard]

Why is a crummy open source project like Firefox better than the browser that comes with my computer?

[vkapoormd]

Why is a crummy open source project like Firefox better than the browser that comes with my computer?

Totally agree with you; it's much, much faster....

[jdogg707]

Firefox is far from some crummy open source outfit, the team that develops Firefox and Mozilla alike are great at what they do, many being programers from the Netscape days.

[musicpyrite]

Please define 'better.'

Personally I find Safari very good.


And why is some open-source project like SuSE better than Windows XP?

[King Cobra]

Why is a crummy open source project like Firefox better than the browser that comes with my computer?
First off, a big ********** hell yeah! to open source.

Second, Firefox is in beta, meaning, it is being tested, debugged, and recompiled constantly. So you shouldn't be making poor judgements about Firefox until Firefix hits 1.0 (final).

Third, because Safari is highly unstable (except if you are using 1.0 through 1.0.3 for Jaguar).

Fourth, I seriously doubt that Safari will be better than Firefox (again, once Firefox hits 1.0).

[jsw]

Third, because Safari is highly unstable (except if you are using 1.0 through 1.0.3 for Jaguar).
Eh? Works for me. No problems....

[ChrisFromCanada]

On my set-up safari is much faster than firefox, but, camino is faster than both

[AppleMatt]

The FireFox team are amazingly proficient.
Unlike the Safari team they benefit from nightly builds that are released to thousands of people, and therefore bug tested by thousands of people.

Don't drop ***** on open source, programming is an incredibly arduous task. It takes guts to release what you've slaved for hours over to the world for criticism.

The answer to your "question": Tomorrow.

AppleMatt

[King Cobra]

Fortunately for you... the first two weeks of using Panther and Safari were awful. I was amazed at the stability issues. All I had to do was switch back and forth between different windows, or even scroll up/down a page sometimes, 5 minutes into application usage, and it would crash. Unacceptable.

Again, it's fortunate for you if Safari is stable, because Safari is a simplified browser whose interface can be changed pretty easily with the theme of your OS. Though I can't deal with constant crashes with any application.

[psycho bob]

I've used Safari since beta (and am using it now) and can honestly say I've never had it crash once on me. I use it every day and its smooth sailing. Once they got past some of the incompatibility issues between certain sites (namely msn and encrypted sites) its been wonderful for me. I've tried other browsers but haven't seen anything to tempt me away.
On a well maintained system it seems to run fine, I know quite a few mac users and they all use it with out problems.
But as they say it's a free world you use what best suits you, but never assume that because something doesn't work for you it is the same for everyone.

[broken_keyboard]

Please define 'better.'

Personally I find Safari very good.


Firefox is compatible with more web sites and significantly faster.

Whenever I try to go back to Safari I just throw up my hands in frustration at the speed and reluctantly open up the little dialog to set Firefox as my default browser... :(

[beatle888]

Why is a crummy open source project like Firefox better than the browser that comes with my computer?


well from your post i was expecting something to blow safari out of the water. firefox is faster at some sites but not all. it seems that for me safari loads sites with heavy content noticably faster like macromedia.com or mtv.com. still it does seem like a nice browser. i'll give it a few and see if i change my mind but so far i'll stick with safari...and whats with no option to import from safari during setup...it lists other browsers but not safari...weird.

[Elan0204]

I've used Safari since beta (and am using it now) and can honestly say I've never had it crash once on me. I use it every day and its smooth sailing.


Really?! Safari crashes for me a lot. Plus it can't handle all the tabs I open without slowing to a crawl. I still kept using it until recently, but now I've decided to start using Camino. I think it is faster than both Safari and Firefox. However, I would rather be using Safari, it's my favorite when it actually works.

[jsj]

I tend to use Safari on OSX and FireFox on PC and Linux. Every now and then Safari seems to stall, which is kind of annoying, but I think I just use it out of habit. I just don't like the performance or (as shallow as it may seem) the look of FireFox on my iBook. FireFox is good and stable, but it's kind of ugly and takes ages to launch. Camino is my new favorite. It's very fast, has cool features (like the text searching shortcut), and is quite lovely. If you haven't tried it, you should.

[Elan0204]

Camino is my new favorite. It's very fast, has cool features (like the text searching shortcut), and is quite lovely.

What is the text searching shortcut?

[wwworry]

When will Safari be better than Firefox?

when it gets contextual menu "back" and "forward" options

[broken_keyboard]

The answer to your "question": Tomorrow.

Do you mean tomorrow never comes, or is there an update coming out that you know about? Because there's no inherient reason why Safari could not be made better than Firefox. It could be done...

[Logik]

I use safari because it tends to work better with os x. i've had it crash a few times but i've been using it pretty heavily today and it's only crashed once on an encrypted page.. going back to it again it worked fine after i submitted a bug.

firefox is not a crummy piece of software. it's an amazing piece of software that people are writing and giving away for free. you get this idea that open source is crummy lol... you realize some very great software is open source... open office is becoming better and is open source, darwin (the underlying kernel to os x) is open source, linux (the kernel) is open source.. open source is here to stay.. don't expect it to go anywhere. apache is open source.. a VERY BIG project.. it serves many of the websites you view everyday... i say you need to rethink your idea of open source being crummy..

[psycho bob]

Really?! Safari crashes for me a lot. Plus it can't handle all the tabs I open without slowing to a crawl. I still kept using it until recently, but now I've decided to start using Camino. I think it is faster than both Safari and Firefox. However, I would rather be using Safari, it's my favorite when it actually works.

Yep works fine for me. I can't really comment on speed as I haven't used them all side by side but otherwise I recommend to everybody I work with (not much need now it is the standard mac browser). The incompatability was an issue at first but this was resolved at V1.0.1 for me on the majority of sites I use. I've not come across any that won't work with it anymore and what few I have in the past (since V1.0.1 (think that was the first after the V1.0 release)) interestingly don't seem to work with IE or Mozilla either leading me to think it is a server or OS issue.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's perfect but there isn't anything with it that makes me want to look elsewhere. Personally I'm really looking forward to using Safari RSS in 10.4.

[psycho bob]

When will Safari be better than Firefox?

when it gets contextual menu "back" and "forward" options

I'm having a thick moment here, what do you mean by contextual forward and back menus?

[PlaceofDis]

ive always used safari and it has never crashed, no compatibility issues either

ive tried Firefox and Camino both, but they take to long to load for me, and i just dont think that they are all that intuitive but thats my opinion

[MisterMe]

Why is a crummy open source project like Firefox better than the browser that comes with my computer?1. Firefox is not a "crummy open source project," it is a very good open source project.
2. You do not define the word better, so that we cannot intelligently comment one way or the other.
3. The most accurate thing that you can say is that you prefer Firefox to Safari on your computer. The reason is known only to you.

[musicpyrite]

Firefox is compatible with more web sites and significantly faster.

Whenever I try to go back to Safari I just throw up my hands in frustration at the speed and reluctantly open up the little dialog to set Firefox as my default browser... :(

I very rarely come to a site that is incompatible with Safari.

And, in my opinion, Safari and FireFox are equally fast.

I think FireFox has a good lay out (similar to Safari), but the only things I don't like about it are:
- brushed metal. I like it, Safari has it, so I'm going to use Safari
- FireFox uses more system resources than Safari
FireFox uses any where from 4-6% of my processor, when idle! FireFox uses about 10 more MB of RAM compared to Safari, and on average FireFox uses 4 more threads than Safari's 9.

It might not make much of a difference when when you run a dual 2 with 1.5GB RAM, but to a 1GHz iMac with 256 RAM, it does.

[broken_keyboard]

1. Firefox is not a "crummy open source project," it is a very good open source project.
2. You do not define the word better, so that we cannot intelligently comment one way or the other.
3. The most accurate thing that you can say is that you prefer Firefox to Safari on your computer. The reason is known only to you.

No, it's not just my opinion - it's objectively better. But if you want to use a worse browser that's OK it's up to you...

[broken_keyboard]

I think FireFox has a good lay out (similar to Safari), but the only things I don't like about it are:
- brushed metal. I like it, Safari has it, so I'm going to use Safari
- FireFox uses more system resources than Safari
FireFox uses any where from 4-6% of my processor, when idle! FireFox uses about 10 more MB of RAM compared to Safari, and on average FireFox uses 4 more threads than Safari's 9.

It might not make much of a difference when when you run a dual 2 with 1.5GB RAM, but to a 1GHz iMac with 256 RAM, it does.

Yes I prefer Safari's GUI too, which is why I always find myself trying to go back to it, but then I can't stand the speed. I even jumped through all these hoops to try to install the Safari look and feel for Firefox but I couldn't get it to work in the end. Lots of files to replace all over the place.

[Logik]

No, it's not just my opinion - it's objectively better. But if you want to use a worse browser that's OK it's up to you...

maybe it's just your setup that's having issues.. you see plenty of people stating that it works fine for them.. i'd try fixing those issues and trying again before you make any ... uh.. misinformed opinions

[Elan0204]

I also prefer the look of Safari, and I don't have compatibility issues at all either. It's just too slow, unstable, and is such a big memory hog that I switched to Camino.

[broken_keyboard]

maybe it's just your setup that's having issues.. you see plenty of people stating that it works fine for them.. i'd try fixing those issues and trying again before you make any ... uh.. misinformed opinions

No - my setup is fine. It's not dog slow, but it is noticably slower. I was really surprised by the guy who said Safari was faster for him, but I do believe Camino could be faster than both, but I haven't used it for ages. My opinion is not misinformed, I have been using these two browsers for ages, on 3 different Macs. Besides everyone here can see for themselves, and I'll think they'll agree with me.

[MarkCollette]

I'm running OS X 10.2.8, so I use the older Safari. This alone is annoying, and I wish that the 10.3.x libraries that the newer Safari uses would be back-ported. But since they're not, this right away means the Firefox is going to keep getting better, while Safari languishes, for me.

A feature that Firefox has, which Safari lacks, is autoscaling of images, to fit in the window. I find this a very ... ummm ... useful feature.

One thing that Safari could add, which would make it better than Firefox, is when you have a lot of tabs, to just make another row for the tabs, instead of the silly drop down list of the tabs which don't fit. At least the drop down list is better than Firefox's habit of just having display glitches on the rightmost end.

[Sneeper]

What is the text searching shortcut?

I didn't see anyone answer this question, so I'll answer.

Firefox (and Mozilla) have what's called "Type Ahead Find". Whenever you are visiting a page, just hit / followed by any text you want to find.. like..

/Sneeper

As you type, it will jump down to the text that matches what you've typed so far. It's borrowed from unix tools like 'vi' and 'less', which use this same syntax for searching. very handy!

Another cool thing about Firefox (besides it being easily themable) are the plethora of extentions out there. To install them, you just click on them. Voila. Instant new functionality.

[edesignuk]

I didn't see anyone answer this question, so I'll answer.

Firefox (and Mozilla) have what's called "Type Ahead Find". Whenever you are visiting a page, just hit / followed by any text you want to find.. like..

/Sneeper

As you type, it will jump down to the text that matches what you've typed so far. It's borrowed from unix tools like 'vi' and 'less', which use this same syntax for searching. very handy!

Another cool thing about Firefox (besides it being easily themable) are the plethora of extentions out there. To install them, you just click on them. Voila. Instant new functionality.That is so cool, I've been using firefox since 0.6 and never even knew about that!

[iMeowbot]

Why is a crummy open source project like Firefox better than the browser that comes with my computer?
Why is a crummy open source operating system like Darwin better than the one that comes with most computers?

[Doraemon]

Websites that don't work with Safari hardly ever work with FireFox. It's the same old story. Some PC user programs a website and "forgets" to test-run it on other platforms or browsers. So basically, you'll end up with having to use IE and even if you do, some websites will only work with IE for Win.

Good websites work with all browsers. It's that simple.

As for stability, I cannot complain about Safari. Crashes once in a while, but nothing that would bother me much (it's way to rare to be a problem).

And personally, I never liked the interface of Mozilla and FireFox.

[iMeowbot]

On my set-up safari is much faster than firefox, but, camino is faster than both
Gecko still suffers from a ridiculously long startup process and some drawing bugs. The latter trouble might be history soon; the recent experiments replacing QuickDraw with Quartz look promising.

[TangoCharlie]

If you prefer Firefox to Safari, then use Firefox and stop whinging! I
have to work on the "Dark Side", but use Firefox in preference to I.E.
simply because Firefox is so much better.
Apple's Safari is still very young, give it time... :)

[AmigoMac]

I can surf pretty fast with safari and my Keyboard, I personally do not like taking my hand out of the KB to click tabs and move between those, I just use Command+shift+(left/right arrow keys), if I want to type a new address, just command+l , move to google bar command+l then TAB, Camino has the "Moving between tabs" feature but its command+alt+arrow keys, firefox is with ctrl+tab I guess, but you can't move that easy as with camino/safari, but camino is far from firefox/safri speed, those which IMO are the same for 98% of the sites I have in my bookmarks, I have run benchmarks between those browsers and firefox is not that big difference, as for the GUI ... safari rules, the only little problem i DO have is :

Safari doesn't display my company's website correctly :eek: :( :D :D

*****! it sucks when I want to show my friends at work how fast safari is...
Then I end saying that you always have possibilities around browsers :p

BTW: I didn't designed ... ;)

[Doraemon]

safari rules, the only little problem i DO have is :

Safari doesn't display my company's website correctly :eek: :( :D :D

*****! it sucks when I want to show my friends at work how fast safari is...
Then I end saying that you always have possibilities around browsers :p

BTW: I didn't designed ... ;)

Sorry, buddy, but as I wrote before, IMO that's just a bad website. When you code using the W3C standards, the website will be fully compatible with all browsers on all platforms.

[AmigoMac]

Sorry, buddy, but as I wrote before, IMO that's just a bad website. When you code using the W3C standards, the website will be fully compatible with all browsers on all platforms.

Yeah, you're right and i agree with that, as I said, I didn't have the pleasure to design it, I have talked already in the company about this but the guy who did it, seems to think about MS like a standard, he said "Most people use Internet explorer"... I let you know that I have a big plan behind to change our website, it's not really my task but I know I can do it :)

[whooleytoo]

Safari has been very stable for me, my pet beef (that must be a mixed metaphor) is that Undo doesn't work for me in text boxes in Safari.

Funnily enough, I just tried Firefox last night for the first time. Out of curiosity, I tried launching it from the mounted image.. big, BIG mistake. It just launched, and quit, and launched, and...

Fine, I'll force quit it. Nope, it wouldn't stay in memory long enough. Tried to kill it via the terminal, but the PID kept changing each launch. Tried to logout/restart - Firefox was cancelling the restart. I was about to do a hard reset, and though I'd give it one last go trying to logout while Firefox was quit and just about managed it. Won't be trying Firefox again in a hurry.

I'd be very curious how it managed to keep relaunching itself.. scary.

[AppleMatt]

Do you mean tomorrow never comes, or is there an update coming out that you know about? Because there's no inherient reason why Safari could not be made better than Firefox. It could be done...

I mean tomorrow never comes. When Safari gains all the features, speed, stability of FireFix etc, you'll want it to do something that Camino does...and IE does...etc etc.

AppleMatt

[osprey76]

No, it's not just my opinion - it's objectively better. But if you want to use a worse browser that's OK it's up to you...
Okay, your opinion is fact.


No - my setup is fine. It's not dog slow, but it is noticably slower. I was really surprised by the guy who said Safari was faster for him, but I do believe Camino could be faster than both, but I haven't used it for ages. My opinion is not misinformed, I have been using these two browsers for ages, on 3 different Macs. Besides everyone here can see for themselves, and I'll think they'll agree with me.
Oh wait, your opinion is informed, but that makes it not a fact. Which way is it going to be?

Are you just looking to flame the message boards with this thread and your posts in it? All you have talked about is "better" and "worse" with a couple of speed issues thrown in. What do you want to be "better" about Safari? I shouldn't have even read this thread, but inane posts irk me. Either communicate effectively or don't create threads just to argue on them.

[King Cobra]

my pet beef (that must be a mixed metaphor) is that Undo doesn't work for me in text boxes in Safari.
Oh, man, I'm glad you brought that up. Mozilla has saved my ass almost every day just because it allows multiple undos/redos, especially in those text boxes. In Safari, if you make a mistake, it's all over, and your day is *********. - Well, yours would be, since you have a bigger pet beef about it than I do.

Okay, your opinion is fact.

Oh wait, your opinion is informed, but that makes it not a fact. Which way is it going to be?

Are you just looking to flame the message boards with this thread and your posts in it? All you have talked about is "better" and "worse" with a couple of speed issues thrown in. What do you want to be "better" about Safari?

Before we continue, let's refresh everyone's memory for two minutes (or less, depending on how quickly you read):

Before Netscape 6 was revealed to the internet world, Internet Explorer was the undisputed (evil) best browser, for its high stability (on Windows systems), compatibility with almost all file formats at the time, suitable interface and features, and acceptable internet navigation speed. There were no browser wars at the time that were worthy of notice, since IE's competitors - Netscape 4 and Netscape Communicator, and a few others - had stability issues and were not as compatible with as many file formats as IE. Nobody stepped up the platform to compete with IE...

Stage 1: The browser wars began with the introduction of Netscape 6. Netscape 6 was designed to compete with Microsoft's Internet Explorer. Though it failed, due to poor GUI navigation, stability issues. Mozilla and open source projects were constructed, debugged, reprogrammed, and sped up. Now Netscape/Mozilla offer more customizable features than any other browser, and have improved to the point of high stability, high website compatibility, customizable interface, and fast internet navigation speed. (Right now, I'm invisioning a classic battle scene in a war movie with soldiers, a black and dark red cloudy night sky, a 100 foot tall flag from each battleground so far, with the browser logo on the flag...and fast heavy metal in the background, signaling that the world reigning standard, IE, is evil.)

Stage 2: The problem with Netscape/Mozilla is: Because it has so many features in its GUI and its preferences, it also became the most complex and hardest to learn browser to use. That opened the doors for simplier browsers to step up to the platform and battle. The first of the two, Safari, was tested in beta stages, recoded, and debugged until it hit v1.0 (and I presume is still being debugged). The second, currently in beta, is Firefox, which is open source and a toned down version of Mozilla. Just like in Safari's beta stages, Firefox is being debugged and reprogrammed, but unlike Mozilla, Firefox has a less complex interface.

We are now deep in stage 2 of the browser wars, where all of the above competitive browsers are well recognized, opinions about each browser become stronger and more varied as more people try out more of the browsers, and the challengers to Internet Explorer - Mozilla, Firefox, and Safari - are all coming closer and closer to being "better" than Internet Explorer. Right now, perhaps the only way we can define the "best" browser is Internet Explorer, because it is still the undefeated standardized internet browser at this point into the war.

So, with all that being said:


I shouldn't have even read this thread, but inane posts irk me. Either communicate effectively or don't create threads just to argue on them.
These are the browser wars, my man. They've never been heavier or more intense than they are now. We rely more and more on the internet for email, web browsing, and immediate access to information. No, wait... we demand internet access for all those purposes, only now, for pictures, audio, and videos as well. We essentially demand that we have the one browser to do it all without having stability issues or a slow/complex GUI. Not only that, but almost everyone browsing this thread has gotten sucked into the browser wars, challenging every other browser out there to destroy one's own current browser. These browser wars are far from over. Eventualy, we'll be seeing screenshots of Safari and Firefox on news sites, such as NBC, FOX, ESPN, etc., more frequently than now, and the apparent difference in browser interfaces with that and IE will grab people's attention... then they will get sucked into the browser wars.

It's one of the coolest wars ever, because everyone's letting out their own opinions, browsers are getting better and better, and the challengers to Internet Explorer are becoming more and more recognized for their own strengths that meet or beat the IE equivalents.

[Hoef]

You dare devils out there .... I am trying Firefox for a while now but one of my favorite websites is really slooooow in Firefox (probably the advertisements). I am still waiting for my G5, can you try the site with Safari and Firefox and tell me the difference. If it doesn't act slow for you it may just be my crummy XP machine.... The site is:

http://www.tweakers.net/

Tx,
Egon

[Logik]

You dare devils out there .... I am trying Firefox for a while now but one of my favorite websites is really slooooow in Firefox (probably the advertisements). I am still waiting for my G5, can you try the site with Safari and Firefox and tell me the difference. If it doesn't act slow for you it may just be my crummy XP machine.... The site is:

http://www.tweakers.net/

Tx,
Egon

took about 10 seconds or so to load in safari... there was something like 90-100 images to download... good grief..

i use what works.. in xp i use firefox, in os x i use safari until i find a site that wants to be difficult with safari then i switch to firefox..

both work well but i've found the integration with os x to be really nice in os x so safari is my default until something strange happens.

use what is best for you, that's my whole thing with this. but if you have an issue don't say the browser sucks because it's probably just your setup, especially if many others are having success with it and you aren't. realize software isn't perfect and if you have bugs report them so they can be fixed.. it's that simple guys.

[MrSugar]

You dare devils out there .... I am trying Firefox for a while now but one of my favorite websites is really slooooow in Firefox (probably the advertisements). I am still waiting for my G5, can you try the site with Safari and Firefox and tell me the difference. If it doesn't act slow for you it may just be my crummy XP machine.... The site is:

http://www.tweakers.net/

Tx,
Egon

I personally think there server might be slow too...

[Hoef]

I personally think there server might be slow too...

Thanks guys for trying out ..... Not to use curse words but the site performance in Windows Explorer is excellent :confused:

[football751]

I have tried mozzilla, firefox, and camino, and I find the GUI's all too dated. Mozzilla looks like Netscape from 1998. I have never found any advantages w/ any opf them, I actually find them slower than Safari. I also liek how Safari is layed out and its GUI and options. I have Safari 1.2.3, and it's amazingly fast, stable, and secure. i have never once had it crash on me. Camino is definatly the best open-source one, and i am not dissing open-source, but I like the usability and foundation Safari is built on. Just my opinion.

Now on windows, it is a COMPLETELY different story. I prefer FireFox on windows, b/c IE has too many holes. The new version in SP2 is OK, but FireFix for Windows is better. I think Mac has Safari down solid, especially w/ 2.0 comeing in 10.4 Tiger. But until MS can get IE to 7.0, which might not happen until Longhorn, FireFox is the best for Windows.

[MisterMe]

....

Before we continue, let's refresh everyone's memory for two minutes (or less, depending on how quickly you read):

Before Netscape 6 was revealed to the internet world, Internet Explorer was the undisputed (evil) best browser, for its high stability (on Windows systems), compatibility with almost all file formats at the time, suitable interface and features, and acceptable internet navigation speed. There were no browser wars at the time that were worthy of notice, since IE's competitors - Netscape 4 and Netscape Communicator, and a few others - had stability issues and were not as compatible with as many file formats as IE. Nobody stepped up the platform to compete with IE....There are a lot of people who will dispute the notion that IE was ever the best browser on any platform. This is not like boxing where several organization each recognize a champion and where the title becomes "undisputed' when the champion of one federation beats the champions of the others.

Stage 1: The browser wars began with the introduction of Netscape 6. Netscape 6 was designed to compete with Microsoft's Internet Explorer. Though it failed, due to poor GUI navigation, stability issues. Mozilla and open source projects were constructed, debugged, reprogrammed, and sped up. Now Netscape/Mozilla offer more customizable features than any other browser, and have improved to the point of high stability, high website compatibility, customizable interface, and fast internet navigation speed. (Right now, I'm invisioning a classic battle scene in a war movie with soldiers, a black and dark red cloudy night sky, a 100 foot tall flag from each battleground so far, with the browser logo on the flag...and fast heavy metal in the background, signaling that the world reigning standard, IE, is evil.)Huh? The browser wars did not begin with Netscape 6, they began with IE 1.0. If anything, Netscape 6 coincided with Netscape's realization that it had lost the browser wars. You seem to think that the browser wars are hotter than ever at the same time that IE is slated to disappear as we know it. Opinion is not fact.

[Sneeper]

Now now, let's all be civil.

A little history though: Netscape 6 is based on the open-sourced Mozilla project. It has very little relation to Netscape 4.78, the last closed-source Netscape release. AOL bought Netscape and open-sourced the browser. If you can't beat the competition yourself, then open it up to the masses. Maybe they can do a better job. The Netscape 6 and Netscape 7 releases are just a certain version of Mozilla with some extras added on. Mozilla introduced many cool features -- tabbed browsing and pop-up blocking. Mozilla uses the Gecko engine.

Safari uses the KHTML engine. Many people were dismayed that Apple didn't choose Gecko, but I think competition is very healthy for Mozilla. When you don't have competition, things become stagnant. It's because of IE's competition that Mozilla/Firefox are as cool as they are today.

But seriously, who cares whatever one you use.. if you like what you use, then congrats. It's like worrying about what kind of clothes labels someone wears. Meh. :rolleyes:

[King Cobra]

Good God man, where do you get this stuff?
Experience, reading other people's feedback on browsers, trying most of them out and determining the strengths and weaknesses of each, you know, places like that.


There are a lot of people who will dispute the notion that IE was ever the best browser on any platform.
And there are a lot of people that would say the same about any of the other browsers. But I already suggested how to define being the "best," and that suggestion (again) is being the undefeated standardized internet browser at this point into the war. If all our computers shipped with Firefox, and most of the websites/businesses out there ran Firefox, then Firefox might be the "best." It could be very well true if a browser is more widely accepted than any others, because it might actually be better, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the most widely used browser is the best. Hence, the suggestion, and not the declaration.


This is not like boxing where several organization each recognize a champion and where the title becomes "undisputed' when the champion of one federation beats the champions of the others.
Exactly correct. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove out of that, but these are browser wars, hence, the "war" description I posted earlier.


the browser wars did not begin with Netscape 6, they began with IE 1.0.
Back then, it wasn't a war, since few people used the internet. So there was little demand or need for a solid browser, or even competition for one. If anything, back then, it wasn't a war, but little kiddie fireworks.

EDIT: Back then it wasn't even that. You could walk your dog through the playing field and neither you or your dog would get involved in any battles...well, except for cleaning up after your dog's mess.


You seem to think that the browser wars are hotter than ever at the same time that IE is slated to disappear as we know it.
That's irrelevant. They are hotter than ever because programmers have decided to spend their own time and energy into a project to make increasingly better browsers. IF Internet Explorer goes down tomorrow, say, then the wars would be faught among Firefox, Mozilla, Safari, and maybe OmniWeb and/or Opera. Also, what I "seem" to think is apparently fairly informative, because you asked me where I got all "this stuff" initially.

My advice to you is [1] acquire more knowledge and a developed understanding about more of the recognized browsers, [2] read (a lot of) feedback from other people about the various browsers and their changes, positive and negative, and [3] make sure that after you become more familiar with the browsers wars, you can defend your points about them.

[broken_keyboard]

Okay, your opinion is fact.
Oh wait, your opinion is informed, but that makes it not a fact. Which way is it going to be?


False dichotomy. My opinion is neither a property of the thing in itself, nor a subjective flight of fancy, but rather an objective evaluation of the facts. Firefox is faster, it is more compatible, therefore it is better. There is no contradiction.


Are you just looking to flame the message boards with this thread and your posts in it? All you have talked about is "better" and "worse" with a couple of speed issues thrown in. What do you want to be "better" about Safari? I shouldn't have even read this thread, but inane posts irk me. Either communicate effectively or don't create threads just to argue on them.

This is a good thread with a lot of good points made by intelligent people, why not join in and discuss your favorite browser instead of being hostile toward me?

[Mav451]

This is really hilarious. I've already seen several instances of the ol' "THE GUI looks outdated" argument.

There's a reason themes were made:
http://update.mozilla.org/themes/?application=firefox

There are 38 to choose from. And these are just the public release ones.

[el greenerino]

I give my vote to Camino (check the sig). Firefox and Mozilla don't run well on my G3 ibook and Safari crashes too much for my liking. Camino is fast, has as many options as Safari, and is more compatible than Safari. If Camino had autofill and a better interface I'd be completly satisfied.

I'd love to use Safari and support Apple, but not if they're going to make second-rate software and live off their name and marketing like Microsoft.

[kerb]

I use Safari most of the time because I can use backspace to go "Back" when browsing.

Is there a way to do this on Firefox? Doesn't seem to be a standard feature yet.

[brap]

I use Safari most of the time because I can use backspace to go "Back" when browsing.

Is there a way to do this on Firefox? Doesn't seem to be a standard feature yet.
Command + left arrow, AFAIK, is the only back shortcut in Firefox... my browser of choice on both platforms since it was called Phoenix ;)

[criana]

I've been going back and forth between the two browsers.

I like all of Firefox's features. The image/ad blocker feature is very nice. But I find Firefox to be just as fickle as Safari when it comes to not loading pages, or certain features.

A site I frequent all the time has drop down menus, and in Firefox I can't get them to stay open to click on the links. Whereas in Safari I can.

But I wanted to follow the hurricane and in Safari, it won't load the images from Weather Channel.com.

Overall I'm happy with Safari, and I never have it crash. When Firefox moves out of beta and into a full version I'll go back and check it out.

[marcsiry]

Lately I've been getting annoyed at how Safari seems to 'hang up' when loading my Mac News tab:

MacRumors
MacMinute
Think Secret
MacNN
PalmInfoCenter
Slashdot

I just downloaded Firefox, themed it to 'Qute,' and created a bookmark set of the above. Then I 'loaded in tabs' in bot Safari and Firefox, twice (to make sure it was cached the second time around).

Results (from click to loading indicators stopping):

1st run:

Firefox: 4 seconds
Safari: 10 seconds

2nd run (cache)

Firefox: 6 seconds (odd)
Safari: 9 seconds

The worst FireFox score still beats the cached Safari score.

The machine is a Dual 1ghz Quicksilver, 1.5 gigs of RAM, on a cable modem. YMMV, but I think I'm going to browse a little more with FF. Also interested to see if it makes browsing on my 12" PB better...

[Brother Michael]

Odd, I have not had a single problem with Safari.

The only thing I do not like is, that I have been unable to find a way to make pop-ups visible on select sites (like forums)

Mike

[clr900]

I never knew that people had such problems with Safari. I have always used it and found it to be very stable and reliable. Occasionally I might come across a site that won't work so I use Firefox. I don't like how slow Firefox takes to launch as I tend to quit often and want quick access to the web when needed.