Do Mac users generally go for the PS3?

[TheSpaz]

I just recently go back into console gaming after getting tired of constantly booting into Windows on my Mac Pro to play one or two games. So I decided to get a dedicated gaming system. I chose the PS3 over the X360 for 2 main reasons:

1. I've always owned PlayStation (PS1 and PS2) and I'm used to the controllers they've always used.

2. I didn't wanna buy something that was made by Microsoft (because I'm a Mac guy). I know this one is weird but I couldn't stand the thought of having a Mac computer and a Microsoft game system. At least when I had Windows, I was still using my trusty Mac to do it.

3. I didn't find this out until after I bought the PS3, but I didn't realize you have to pay for internet access on the X360... that's another downside.

So far I'm liking my PS3, but you really need to get the PS3 Exclusives to really enjoy the system. The cross platform games almost always have framerate issues on the PS3... not because the PS3 isn't powerful, it's because the developers have a harder time working with the PS3. The X360 is more like a computer so the translation is easier... and it uses Direct X.

So my question is... do Mac users generally tend to go for Sony PlayStation because of the whole Microsoft thing?

[Sambo110]

I used to love the 360, hated the PS3. Sold my 360 for a PS3 eventually and loved it. I eventually bought a 360 again but I am just keeping it for Halo, but I spend 95% of my time on the PS3 and by most/all games for it. It's just the better system in my opinion, and if it wasn't for Reach, I don't know if I would keep my 360.

[ManhattanPrjct]

So far I'm liking my PS3, but you really need to get the PS3 Exclusives to really enjoy the system. The cross platform games almost always have framerate issues on the PS3... not because the PS3 isn't powerful, it's because the developers have a harder time working with the PS3. The X360 is more like a computer so the translation is easier... and it uses Direct X.

Either I don't know what to look for, or am just blind, but I don't really notice this. The multi-platform games I have played for the PS3 work just fine for me.

I bought my PS3 for a reason you don't list - at the time, it was more cost effective to buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, since (at the time) it was the best one out there.

Since then, there have been three VERY good exclusive titles (Uncharted 2, MGS4, and LBP) and I haven't regretted it at all, but you may want to wait for somebody who has owned both to comment.

Don't forget about the build quality differences!

[SevenInchScrew]

So my question is... do Mac users generally tend to go for Sony PlayStation because of the whole Microsoft thing?
Not me, personally. I have both a 360 and a PS3, and I enjoy them both, but for different reasons. Many of my friends have 360s, so I do almost all of my online gaming there. And while you do have to pay for Xbox Live Gold to get some of the features of the console, I will gladly pay it, because they make the console great. I wish it were free, for sure. But, for the small amount it costs, I will gladly pay for the service. Same goes for Sony. If they charged for PSN, but it started to offer feature parity with XBL Gold, I would gladly pay.

Party Chat is the big one with me. Many of my old high school and college friends have moved, and/or have families now, so we don't generally have a lot of time to get together. But almost every night, 4 or 5 of us will be online. We use the "Party Chat" feature all the time. It is really awesome being able to do that, given we are all in different cities, and often playing different games. The convenience and simplicity of that is worth the price of XBL Gold, personally.

And yes, as you said, if there is a big multi-platform release, I will usually get it for 360. All of the games I have have for PS3 are exclusives for that system, with the exception being Burnout Paradise. But that game was developed with the PS3 as the lead SKU, so it plays perfectly. But given that multiplayer is such a huge part of games now, and my friends and I play online on the 360, I tend to get the 360 almost all the time.

I've never put any thought into the whole "Apple v MS" thing when buying a console. The reason I use Apple computers isn't because they aren't a MS product. I use them because they work better for what I want to do, and how I want to use a computer. Same with my game consoles. I don't have a favorite brand or anything. I like many games across many platforms. My 360 serves a purpose with my gaming needs, just as my PS3 does. I do tend to spend more time gaming on my 360, but that is mostly because most of my friends are there and I enjoy using it a little more. But, what time I do spend with my PS3 is good. Well, aside from the whole "30-minute system update" process. That is annoying. But, I'm a huge Gran Turismo and Metal Gear fan, so a Playstation will always be in my collection.

[TheSpaz]

Either I don't know what to look for, or am just blind, but I don't really notice this. The multi-platform games I have played for the PS3 work just fine for me.

I bought my PS3 for a reason you don't list - at the time, it was more cost effective to buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, since (at the time) it was the best one out there.

Since then, there have been three VERY good exclusive titles (Uncharted 2, MGS4, and LBP) and I haven't regretted it at all, but you may want to wait for somebody who has owned both to comment.

Don't forget about the build quality differences!

For example... games like Skate, Skate 2, Tomb Raider, and Grand Theft Auto all suffer from stuttery framerates, but those same titles are smooth as butter on the X360. I heard that developers tend to develop multi-platform games on the X360 first and then port them over to the PS3 which results in less performance for us PS3 owners. However, games that are designed for PS3's hardware, run amazingly well and have really great graphics (Uncharted 2, Killzone 2).

I think it sucks that developers favor the X360 over the PS3 because they don't like dealing with PS3's hard learning curve.

I still like playing the Skate games and Grand Theft Auto, but the frame skipping is very apparent and it brings down the experience a little bit.

[mstrze]

I don't think you can make any generalizations. I have always been a Nintendo fan...Gamecube and then Wii for us over the last decade. We have been Mac owners since the mid-90s.

[roadbloc]

Nope. I had a PS2, but now I'm building a Gaming Rig.

And yes, it will have Windows on it.

[Sambo110]

Plus the 360 hardware is crap. All the old consoles get the RROD, which is fixed now, but now a lot get the e74 error. And the rechargeable batteries, which should be included free, are crap and often break and don't hold a charge.

[TheSpaz]

Well, I did some more research on Burnout Paradise and it looks as if developers are starting to use the PS3 as the lead platform and then porting the game to the X360. Only a few so far, but if this continues, we'll all have games that look and perform well on all platforms. Here's some links to check out:

http://www.ps3attitude.com/new/2010/03/ps3-lead-console-medal-honor/

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/153888/sony-ps3-becoming-lead-console-for-developers/

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/01/19/upcoming-castlevanias-lead-console-is-the-playstation-3-says/

[MacRumorUser]

2. I didn't wanna buy something that was made by Microsoft (because I'm a Mac guy). I know this one is weird but I couldn't stand the thought of having a Mac computer and a Microsoft game system. At least when I had Windows, I was still using my trusty Mac to do it.


There have been a few people on this forum that had that attitude.

95% of those on here thankfully do not share it.

We can differentiate between and operating system and a console. We also realize that most of the Microsoft vitriol a lot of people with this attitude pronounce is based mostly on ignorance and a twisted perspective of reality.
They also tend to believe by hating Microsoft or 'actively avoiding' them and products by them somehow makes them better 'mac' owners or more 'macish' than the rest of us.

It's a silly position when you actually rationalize it, but hey we live in an irrational world where freedom allows people to be as irrational as they wish to be.





So my question is... do Mac users generally tend to go for Sony PlayStation because of the whole Microsoft thing?



As for whether most mac users use PS3 or 360. I think you will find the majority of regular posters here use or own both consoles. And the rest are split mostly 50/50.




And of course your hypothesis of PS3 being more preferred by Mac users is flawed for two more reasons.

1) You forgot the third option which of course is the Wii and a lot of people here also own one.

2) Architecture wise both the 360 & Wii are closer to the Mac than the PS3. PS3 uses Cell & Blu-Ray (A mac has never used either ;) ) whereas both 360 & Wii use PowerPC Architecture, and therefore has more relationship to the mac.

It still remains a flawed argument / hypothesis.





Basically people tend to buy whatever they want. You chose PS3 mostly because you had PS, PS2. Likewise I'm sure many of those with 360's previously owned an Xbox.

I like many have owned a lot more machines than that and my relationship with gaming stretches long before PS1 was around. For that reason I'm more open to all platforms, regardless of the 'brand' logo slapped on the front of it.



Well, I did some more research on Burnout Paradise and it looks as if developers are starting to use the PS3 as the lead platform


Your research is a little out of date with Burnout Paradise, it is a 2008 game. 2010 - the 360 is still the lead development for most multi platform titles. Though granted the PS3 lead has come on.

Those where the PS3 has been the lead either results in a pretty even gaming experience when ported to 360 (forgetting Bayonetta & Final Fantasy piss poor conversions on either platform), however in some cases there still is a small but tangible benefit to the 360 (ghostbusters). Either way both systems like we have discussed 500 billion times before are much of a muchness.

[TheSpaz]

There have been a few people on this forum that had that attitude.

95% of those on here thankfully do not share it.

We can differentiate between and operating system and a console. We also realize that most of the Microsoft vitriol a lot of people with this attitude pronounce is based mostly on ignorance and a twisted perspective of reality.
They also tend to believe by hating Microsoft or 'actively avoiding' them and products by them somehow makes them better 'mac' owners or more 'macish' than the rest of us.

It's a silly position when you actually rationalize it, but hey we live in an irrational world where freedom allows people to be as irrational as they wish to be.







As for whether most mac users use PS3 or 360. I think you will find the majority of regular posters here use or own both consoles. And the rest are split mostly 50/50.




And of course your hypothesis of PS3 being more preferred by Mac users is flawed for two more reasons.

1) You forgot the third option which of course is the Wii and a lot of people here also own one.

2) Architecture wise both the 360 & Wii are closer to the Mac than the PS3. PS3 uses Cell & Blu-Ray (A mac has never used either ;) ) whereas both 360 & Wii use PowerPC Architecture, and therefore has more relationship to the mac.

It still remains a flawed argument / hypothesis.





Basically people tend to buy whatever they want. You chose PS3 mostly because you had PS, PS2. Likewise I'm sure many of those with 360's previously owned an Xbox.

I like many have owned a lot more machines than that and my relationship with gaming stretches long before PS1 was around. For that reason I'm more open to all platforms, regardless of the 'brand' logo slapped on the front of it.






Your research is a little out of date with Burnout Paradise, it is a 2008 game. 2010 - the 360 is still the lead development for most multi platform titles. Though granted the PS3 lead has come on.

Those where the PS3 has been the lead either results in a pretty even gaming experience when ported to 360 (forgetting Bayonetta & Final Fantasy piss poor conversions on either platform), however in some cases there still is a small but tangible benefit to the 360 (ghostbusters). Either way both systems like we have discussed 500 billion times before are much of a muchness.

Owning an X360 would go against everything that I am about. It would just feel like "joining the other team" to me. I would view myself as a traitor if I got a 360. Yeah, brand matters to me. I'm sorry if that bothers you. Once I like a certain brand and dislike a certain brand, I stick with them. It's part of my loyalty to the companies I like.

For example... I only buy Samsung TVs and I only buy Apple computers. Now I only buy Sony gaming consoles.

I forgot to mention that the X360 controller bothers me and I don't like the way the console looks and I'm not a fan of the UI design of the menu system.

The PS3 looks more like a pro console (I know that sounds stupid) and the X360 looks more like a kids toy. The PS3 UI is so clean and elegant and the look and feel of the console just has a higher quality to it. Plus, it has HDMI.

[Dagless]

Haha, what.
I own an Xbox 360 and enjoy it very much so. I also own a few Apple computers. Mostly I'm a PC gamer though.

My brand loyalty lies with nobody. I don't feel bad about "playing for the other team" or whatever ridiculous thing that is. If one company makes a good product why on earth would I not buy it because another product of theirs isn't so good? That makes no sense.

[MacRumorUser]

Owning an X360 would go against everything that I am about. It would just feel like "joining the other team" to me. I would view myself as a traitor if I got a 360. Yeah, brand matters to me. I'm sorry if that bothers you. Once I like a certain brand and dislike a certain brand, I stick with them. It's part of my loyalty to the companies I like.

It doesn't bother me. I just see it as pretty redundant position.

You loyal to Brand A, great for them.. Are you especially rewarded from Brand A for your loyalty ? NOT in the slightest. So why are you being brand loyal ? It's an illogical argument.

Brand loyalty can actually be bad for business, as companies just assume consumer A will buy anything because Brand A has put a logo on the front of it, regardless of whether it's a shoddy product or not. It leads to complacency and lack of desire to innovate and improve.


Plus, it has HDMI.

Goodness your research really is dated isn't it. The 360 has had HDMI since 2007.


My brand loyalty lies with nobody. I don't feel bad about "playing for the other team" or whatever ridiculous thing that is. If one company makes a good product why on earth would I not buy it because another product of theirs isn't so good? That makes no sense.

Exactly.

You miss out on a good product because of the label on it ? How does that benefit you ? Are any of the companies your loyal to going to send you a nice thank you card ?


Your brand loyal as a consumer and yet the biggest and most important part, the brand is not consumer loyal.

You are a commodity, a dot in sales figures, a miniscule factor in an gigantic operation. Will your loyalty be missed ? Will your loyalty be rewarded ?

[flopticalcube]

360 is a great console (hardware designed by Toshiba, I believe). The XBox Live software is great. Everyone needs to look beyond prejudice to fully enjoy the experience. I have 4 Macs in the house plus loads of iPods.

[SevenInchScrew]

Plus, it has HDMI.
All 360s sold for like the last 2 years have HDMI now. It started with the Elite, in early 2007, but has since transitioned to the whole line.

*OOPS, I was beaten by MRU while I was typing. Oh well*

[TheSpaz]

Sorry about the HDMI thing. I'm new to consoles. I guess I'm just picky about which products I buy. I still think the X360 looks like a kids toy, but the PS3 looks more adult-oriented.... to me.

The main reason I bought a PS3 is the fact that I've had all the other Sony game consoles. They've made the best selling game console ever (PS2) and I'm quite confident in their products.

Plus, I like the added bonus of having a nice Blu-ray player. (unless this info is dated too, I don't think the X360 has Blu-ray).

[SevenInchScrew]

They've made the best selling game console ever (PS2)
For now, though it seems only a matter of time until the DS surpasses it. On sale for 4 years less than the PS2 has been available, and the DS is only ~15M units behind. That isn't to say the PS2 is a sales slouch, by any means. But the DS is a monster, and Nintendo just know how to sell product better than any other company in the business.
Plus, I like the added bonus of having a nice Blu-ray player. (unless this info is dated too, I don't think the X360 has Blu-ray).
You are correct on that. There is currently no Blu-ray option for the 360. It does DVD, HD-DVD (with add-on drive), HD downloads and HD streaming.

[IntelliUser]

Cross Platform games are pretty much the same on both platform nowadays.
The advantage of the PS3 are the exclusives. The 360 ones are pretty meh.
And I don't see the "Xbox Live" being worth the money anymore.
Plus, the PS3 is pretty future-proof compared to the 360.


One thing though. Project Natal. If done well enough, that's quite an advantage for the 360.

[TheSpaz]

Cross Platform games are pretty much the same on both platform nowadays.

Do you know which games perform the same on both platforms? I'm not being sarcastic, I really wanna know because I'm new to the X360 vs PS3 thing and from the few games I've tried, the X360 beats the PS3 in multi-platform. Maybe the games I'm playing aren't new enough?

Modern Warfare 2 runs really well on the PS3, but Skate 2 and Grand Theft Auto are pretty bad.

Anyways... please give me some examples of some newer games that are pretty much the same on both consoles.

[IntelliUser]

Do you know which games perform the same on both platforms? I'm not being sarcastic, I really wanna know because I'm new to the X360 vs PS3 thing and from the few games I've tried, the X360 beats the PS3 in multi-platform. Maybe the games I'm playing aren't new enough?

Modern Warfare 2 runs really well on the PS3, but Skate 2 and Grand Theft Auto are pretty bad.

Anyways... please give me some examples of some newer games that are pretty much the same on both consoles.

What genres do you play? And what GTA did you try?

[SevenInchScrew]

Anyways... please give me some examples of some newer games that are pretty much the same on both consoles.
I have an example of one that does NOT run the same. Fallout 3 is damn near unplayable on PS3. I love that game, and have played through it 4-5 times on 360. A buddy of mine got the "Game of the Year" edition for PS3, so I borrowed it from him with the intention of getting some more trophies, since I have all the achievements on 360. HOLY CRAP!! The game is buggy in general, as most big open-world RPG type games are, so that isn't really new. But man, I had nothing but problems with the PS3 version. It would freeze up on me practically every 30 minutes, saves would constantly get corrupted, and Dog Meat randomly disappeared, TWICE! :mad:

I never played the PS3 version of Oblivion, so I don't know if this is something new to Fallout, or if Bethesda just has problems developing for the hardware, but I would recommend people steer clear of the PS3 version of Fallout 3.

[Dr. McKay]

I'm a dedicated Mac user and have owned a Gamecube for years. Last year I decided it was time for something else. I went out and bought... a PS2 !!

Dirt cheap, and with a great back catalogue (dirt cheap as well)...

[mslide]

2. I didn't wanna buy something that was made by Microsoft (because I'm a Mac guy). I know this one is weird but I couldn't stand the thought of having a Mac computer and a Microsoft game system. At least when I had Windows, I was still using my trusty Mac to do it.

Not me. I own an XBox 360 and really like it. The name of the company that produced a product doesn't usually factor into my decision. I buy what best meets my needs and sometimes that's a Microsoft product. Then again, I'm not a die-hard Mac/Apple fan (although I do like my iphone and prefer to use Macbooks over windows-based laptops) and I have an equal mix of Apple and Windows-based computers in my house (and they all run equally well).

In fact, a lot of Mac users I personally know are not anti-microsoft at all.

[TheSpaz]

What genres do you play? And what GTA did you try?

I play:

Skate
Call of Duty
Grand Theft Auto IV (is there more than this for PS3?)
Rock Band 2 (runs fine)

I generally go for modern shooters and free roaming games (I play Freeskate on Skate a lot and I like Grand Theft Auto and Just Cause).

Any suggestions of some more games to pick up that I might like? I was thinking about Resistance 2 or Prototype.

[NoSmokingBandit]

I cant speak for anyone else, but i didnt care who made what console, i just didnt want a 360 because of its unreliable hardware and Sony has better first party games. I'm not anit-MS like a lot of apple fans, so that may have something to do with it. If the 360 had more games i liked and didnt break every few months i'd probably have one.


Spaz:
A lot of newer cross platform games are still bad on the ps3, but thats because they make the 360 version then port it over without actually building the engines from the ground up. FF13 was made for ps3 from scratch and theres a night/day difference between the ps3 and 360 copies. I generally stick to exclusives because of this, and the Ps3 has a great selection of exclusives so i'm never without a great game to play.
The only way to make similar cross platform games is to code each one separately, no porting. This costs a ton of money and most studios just cant do it.

inFamous is about a million times better than Prototype. I have Prototype on my pc and it bored the balls off me in a few hours. The powers are cool, but the city is just so dead and lifeless. inFamous was pretty much just great, its one of the few games i got a platinum trophy in. Its not huge like GTA4, but its really fun to run around the city.

I'd get Resistance:FoM before Resistance 2. Both were good, but completely different. R2 has pretty good squad-based online coop. Killzone 2 is great too, and has a pretty awesome online mode. Its the ony game i actually played online for more than a week.

[-SD-]

I got a PS3 because the 360 hardware is absolute *****. When it became apparent that Blu Ray had beaten HD-DVD, that sealed the deal and I immediately purchased a 40GB PlayStation.

I have a Wii for the kids, but I reckon I'll pack that away as soon as the Move controllers are released.

:apple:

[Nermal]

Basically people tend to buy whatever they want. You chose PS3 mostly because you had PS, PS2. Likewise I'm sure many of those with 360's previously owned an Xbox.

I went from PS2 to 360 :p

At the time, a PS3 was NZ$1199, and 360 Elite $799. There was no way that I was paying an extra $400, especially when most of the games that I was interested in were either multi-platform or 360-exclusive. I was also on the HD DVD side of the fence at the time (and I don't regret being able to pick up $2 movies after it flopped!), so Blu-ray didn't interest me.

[whooleytoo]

Mac and PS3 user here, so, yup.
But I do have a 360 as well.
And a Wii too.
Still have the PS2 somewhere.
And the old Xbox is in storage in the hall.
Just on top of the old Gamecube.
I'm not sure if my old Nintento 64 is.
But the Playstation certainly is.

The only major non-mobile platform I don't have is a PC, but I always have the option of Boot Camp.

To be honest, I don't think there's any major correlation between choice of PC and choice of console. Every console has it's strengths and flaws, even though the major reason for owning all consoles (exclusive games) seem to be getting more and more rare.

[NATO]

I think it sucks that developers favor the X360 over the PS3 because they don't like dealing with PS3's hard learning curve.

This is Sony's fault for making the PS3 so hard to develop for. Sony and Microsoft make their platforms available with the hope that developers make games for them. If you make your platform hard to develop for and/or don't provide enough support to developers then your platform is going to suffer in terms of game quality and/or quantity. Sony only have themselves to blame.

[pagardur]

and if it wasn't for Reach, I don't know if I would keep my 360.

Totally agree. With the help of PS3 Media Server and the console's built-in internet browser I am beginning to love my new PS3 Slim.

[2nyRiggz]

If you make your platform hard to develop for and/or don't provide enough support to developers then your platform is going to suffer in terms of game quality and/or quantity. Sony only have themselves to blame.

Not entirely, Sony has been very good in offering support to third party developers. These inferior ports aren't as bad as critics make them out to be except for the select few that are quite noticeable..ghostbusters, Fallout 3(Although I haven't had a single problem until the DLC launched) bayonetta. On the plus side developers are using the PS3 as the lead and thats shaping up quite well just look at recently released Battlefield Bad Company 2, Darksiders and Modern Warfare 2.

Op, I'm a mac user and I have nothing against MS, windows or any other console manufacturer...I go where the games are and thats why I have all the major gaming systems not because of loyalty to brand but GAMES.


Bless

[Bennieboy©]

not sure, i bought my first xbox360 before i ever had a mac, only really bought it because my PS2 was on it's last legs and it was cheap and had some mildly good games about for it, but then it died, bought another, it died too, so saved up a little and got a PS3, had it nearly 2 years now, still works fine, upgraded the HD for it to 500Gb, ( urgh 4 hours for backing up and restoring 32Gb of data wtf? ) but still works fine,

the only hiccup i get sometimes is PSN signs me out and dont like letting me connect sometimes of the day, but for the most part, it always work.

[TheSpaz]

Not entirely, Sony has been very good in offering support to third party developers. These inferior ports aren't as bad as critics make them out to be except for the select few that are quite noticeable..ghostbusters, Fallout 3(Although I haven't had a single problem until the DLC launched) bayonetta. On the plus side developers are using the PS3 as the lead and thats shaping up quite well just look at recently released Battlefield Bad Company 2, Darksiders and Modern Warfare 2.

Op, I'm a mac user and I have nothing against MS, windows or any other console manufacturer...I go where the games are and thats why I have all the major gaming systems not because of loyalty to brand but GAMES.


Bless

Not sure about Bad Company 2 and Darksiders, but wasn't Modern Warfare 2 ported to PS3, not developed on it? I read somewhere that Infinity Ward favored the X360.

[bcrguy]

mac user who spent all his money on his new mac for school so i cant afford a ps3 right now.. but i want one.. il take a ps3 over a 360 anyday.. i have a psp, ps2 and a ps1 tho..

[ViViDboarder]

Many gamers buy consoles for multiplayer games. Those users generally buy the consoles their friends have so they can play with them. That's why I got the Xbox360 3 years ago. That's also why I bought a PS3 this year.

Both are sweet and have their own advantages. It's just a different device.

More importantly, I feel like there isn't any real correlation between Mac users and game consoles.


2) Architecture wise both the 360 & Wii are closer to the Mac than the PS3. PS3 uses Cell & Blu-Ray (A mac has never used either ;) ) whereas both 360 & Wii use PowerPC Architecture, and therefore has more relationship to the mac.

I'm sorry but you're a bit off here... The Cell, 3-Core Xenon and the PPC Broadway are all different from the processors Apple used to use... but they are ALL manufactured by IBM and they are ALL part of the Power Architechture. :) Also the Broadway is a 32bit processor and I believe that most PPC's that Apple used were 64bit.

Anyway, irrelevant to the subject but I thought I should clarify.

I got a PS3 because the 360 hardware is absolute *****. When it became apparent that Blu Ray had beaten HD-DVD, that sealed the deal and I immediately purchased a 40GB PlayStation.

I have a Wii for the kids, but I reckon I'll pack that away as soon as the Move controllers are released.

:apple:

Wow... Fanboi much? 360 hardware is not worse than the PS3. It's different hardware built as a different system. Blue-Ray is the edge that PS3 has and that's great!

As for Wii vs. Move... That's a joke. Reports of the move say that it's not very responsive. Also, look how many games supported the EyeToy! :rolleyes:

Totally agree. With the help of PS3 Media Server and the console's built-in internet browser I am beginning to love my new PS3 Slim.

I use Majestic with my slim. It's free and does the same thing. http://majesticdotapp.com/

[Dr. McKay]

A PS3 would be more "future proof" because of the BR, but the 360 is cheaper and since I'm not interested in BR-movies right now (too expensive), I could always buy a dedicated BR-player when DVD goes the way of VHS.

Both machines have their exclusives and the titles that are available on both are practically identical in terms of graphics and sound.

So if I were to buy one NOW, it'd probably be a 360, simply because of pricing. But I'll most likely end up buying one of them dirt cheap in a couple of years, when their respective successors are released.
Until then, my PS2 and GC will do nicely...

[SevenInchScrew]

Just to clarify things. There have been Macs using Xenon processors, but not the same one in the 360.
Your clarification was incorrect. There have been no Macs that have used the Xenon processor. The Xenon is a custom CPU designed by IBM specifically for the 360. I believe you are thinking of the Xeon line of CPUs from Intel, which are currently used in the Mac Pros. These are two very different CPUs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_%28processor%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon

[ViViDboarder]

Your clarification was incorrect. There have been no Macs that have used the Xenon processor. The Xenon is a custom CPU designed by IBM specifically for the 360. I believe you are thinking of the Xeon line of CPUs from Intel, which are currently used in the Mac Pros. These are two very different CPUs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_%28processor%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon

Haha, yea. Totally messed up that one. :) I thought it was weird when I saw the MacPros with the Xeon and was like... Isn't that back to PPC? I knew it didn't make sense but couldn't put my finger on why. Thanks for pointing it out. :)

[SteveLaidoffs]

hahah, never thought about that, I have always been playstation since I got older and realized nintendo has no adult games, I got the ps3 becuase it had a bluray, but I have no mac pride over getting a xbox

[SevenInchScrew]

....nintendo has no adult games
Fun has no age limit. ;)

[[DL]]

Fun has no age limit. ;)

THANK YOU.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Not sure about Bad Company 2 and Darksiders, but wasn't Modern Warfare 2 ported to PS3, not developed on it? I read somewhere that Infinity Ward favored the X360.

Yeah. Even the pc version is a port from the 360. Idk why they did that. They had a big enough budget, and the game isnt really that big anyway, so theres no reason (other than laziness and greed) that they couldn't code each console separately.

[ViViDboarder]

Yeah. Even the pc version is a port from the 360. Idk why they did that. They had a big enough budget, and the game isnt really that big anyway, so theres no reason (other than laziness and greed) that they couldn't code each console separately.

Isn't it EA Games? Is it a surprise? Haha

[SevenInchScrew]

Isn't it EA Games? Is it a surprise? Haha
Activision, not EA.

[DoFoT9]

another vote for PS3. i bought the old model in december specifically so i could install linux (to rip BDs). ps3 + mac + PS3 Media Server = WIN!

[LethalWolfe]

Everything is either a tool or a toy and I don't care who makes it as long as it does what I'm looking for. Do I have preferences? Sure, but I'm not going to buy a product merely because it was made by a certain company. In the end, Apple, Sony, MS etc., are all massive, multi-national, billion dollar companies that care about what's in your wallet above all else. Everything in your house can be from Brand X but if you get hit by a bus tomorrow Brand X isn't going to send flowers to your funeral.


Lethal

[jalagl]

I have an Xbox 360, so no, us Mac users sometimes go for consoles other than the PS3.

I got it because I like the RPGs it has, such as Mass Effect 1 & 2, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Tales of Vesperia (also on PS3), plus it plays original Xbox games - I am about to finish KOTOR, and will play Jade Empire in the near future.

The other reason I bought it is because of shoot'em ups. I have Ikaruga and R-Type from XBLA, plus Raiden Fighter Aces and Raiden IV. Yes, I am a masochist.

It also works nicely to stream media from the Mac using Rivet.

I also have other good games for the plataform, like PGR4, Bioshock, Banjo Kazooie N&B, and others. Now all I need is time to play them all...

[ViViDboarder]

Activision, not EA.

Yea... I'm not on a roll today. I've been wrong about almost everything :p

Tomorrow is a new day! :)

[chill.]

Owning an X360 would go against everything that I am about. It would just feel like "joining the other team" to me. I would view myself as a traitor if I got a 360. Yeah, brand matters to me. I'm sorry if that bothers you. Once I like a certain brand and dislike a certain brand, I stick with them. It's part of my loyalty to the companies I like.

For example... I only buy Samsung TVs and I only buy Apple computers. Now I only buy Sony gaming consoles.


dude.. do you realize the whole world is built on microsoft? i guess you don't go to hospitals or use airplanes or transportation or go to school, etc. etc. etc. because every single industry uses and supports microsoft

blind, fanatical brand loyalty is just ridiculous. at least use some type of argument. you basically don't like microsoft just because they're the "other guy"

for xbox vs ps3 it all comes down to the titles/content you want obviously

but some key differences are:
xbox360 is the pioneer in online console gaming, and they are ahead of ps3 in that department
xbox360 is easier to develop on and utilize its hardware resources
ps3 is more difficult to develop on but has greater potential in terms of hardware
ps3 has blu ray, and i would contend that it is the superior media center
ps3 move has already been announced, project natal is still in development

[TheSpaz]

dude.. do you realize the whole world is built on microsoft? i guess you don't go to hospitals or use airplanes or transportation or go to school, etc. etc. etc. because every single industry uses and supports microsoft

blind, fanatical brand loyalty is just ridiculous. at least use some type of argument. you basically don't like microsoft just because they're the "other guy"

for xbox vs ps3 it all comes down to the titles/content you want obviously

but some key differences are:
xbox360 is the pioneer in online console gaming, and they are ahead of ps3 in that department
xbox360 is easier to develop on and utilize its hardware resources
ps3 is more difficult to develop on but has greater potential in terms of hardware
ps3 has blu ray, and i would contend that it is the superior media center
ps3 move has already been announced, project natal is still in development

1. Who cares if there's a lot of people using Microsoft stuff everyday… doesn't mean it has to be in my house too.

2. I haven't had any issues with the free Playstation Network. I don't understand what's so bad about it (besides cross-game voice chat)

3. I don't develop for X360 so that doesn't matter to me. If the game is good, then I'll play it.

4. Blu-ray is nice but I already had a dedicated Blu-ray player

5. I'm not interested in the Move one single bit.

I buy products based on quality, not features. I don't have much faith in Microsoft products, but I have a lot of faith in Apple and Samsung for bringing high quality stuff to the market. I'm sorry it bothers you, but that's just the way I am. If I bought a Microsoft product, I would feel guilty about it. It was bad enough running their OS on my Mac, but now I don't need Windows at all thanks to Playstation 3!

[DoFoT9]

4. Blu-ray is nice but I already had a dedicated Blu-ray player


what about a bluray RIPPER. hehehe. ps3 can do that ;)

[LethalWolfe]

xbox360 is the pioneer in online console gaming, and they are ahead of ps3
I'd have to disagree and say the Dreamcast was the pioneer of online console gaming.


3. I don't develop for X360 so that doesn't matter to me. If the game is good, then I'll play it.


I buy products based on quality, not features. I don't have much faith in Microsoft products, but I have a lot of faith in Apple and Samsung for bringing high quality stuff to the market. I'm sorry it bothers you, but that's just the way I am. If I bought a Microsoft product, I would feel guilty about it. It was bad enough running their OS on my Mac, but now I don't need Windows at all thanks to Playstation 3!
I'm confused. You say if it's a good game, you'll play it... unless MS was involved with it. You say you buy products based on quality but owning anything MS makes you feel guilty so even if MS made a better product you still wouldn't buy it?

I think you just need to own up to having an irrational dislike for anything MS and leave it at that. Trying to justify it is pointless.


Lethal

[DoFoT9]

I'd have to disagree and say the Dreamcast was the pioneer of online console gaming.

Lethal

you are both wrong. apple was the pioneer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bandai_Pippin). it was too advanced for its time ;)

[SevenInchScrew]

you are both wrong. apple was the pioneer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bandai_Pippin). it was too advanced for its time ;)
I think Nintendo might disagree with you...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview

[DoFoT9]

I think Nintendo might disagree with you...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview

only like 3 months before the pippin was lol.. but touche

[LethalWolfe]

The Dreamcast offered the first viable online console gaming system though and, AFAIK, the first to offer broadband capability via the ethernet module.

Nintendo and Apple, in this regard, were the like guys wandering into the great unknown never to be heard from again where as Sega was like Lewis & Clark. ;)


Lethal

[takao]

The Dreamcast offered the first viable online console gaming system though and, AFAIK, the first to offer broadband capability via the ethernet module.

Nintendo and Apple, in this regard, were the like guys wandering into the great unknown never to be heard from again where as Sega was like Lewis & Clark. ;)


Lethal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBAND
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Meganet
etc.

[MacRumorUser]

Being the first to do somthing is not necesserily meaning the first to do it properly. Apple was not the first to do mp3's or online music store. It was the first to do it properly and effectivly then pioneered and lead the market.

Microsoft's xbox was not the first console to offer online gaming, but Xbox Live itself was the first to do it properly and again pioneered and chaned the way all future consoles did online gaming services.

Dreamcast may have been first, but it's commercial failure stopped it from ever being a 'pioneer'.

Microsoft's console and Xbox Live was also the first to bring us DLC, and original arcade titles by digital delivery on console. Sadly it was also the first to introduce game patches to console games though they remain thankfully small (in comparison to the size of ps3 game patches).

As I say being the first is not the same as pioneering or changing the way we do things. Being the first to do it properly that everyone else then copies your service is.

[DoFoT9]

The Dreamcast offered the first viable online console gaming system though and, AFAIK, the first to offer broadband capability via the ethernet module.

Nintendo and Apple, in this regard, were the like guys wandering into the great unknown never to be heard from again where as Sega was like Lewis & Clark. ;)


Lethal

yup well aware of the impact that the dreamcast had on everything. but that doesnt mean to say that it was a pioneer. it was successful, yes.

[randomerratum]

Well, I'm a mac user and I got a PS3 to use as a Blu-Ray player. Mostly, it does BD and Instant Watch Netflix, but I do occasionally go into gaming phases, (Orange Box, CoD4, MGS4 etc)

Maybe I've just gotten spoiled by using macs for the better part of a decade, but man, oh man do I HATE the ever-loving-sh** out of my my PS3.

Sure, from a purely technical standpoint, it's arguably the best gaming console and definitely the best DVD/Blu-Ray player on the market. The DVD upscaler is second to none and the games are top notch.

But preforming even the most basic menial tasks, like renting and managing movies, hard drive space and managing accessories is excruciating. From a design/user interface perspective, it's a total failure as a consumer device. It's 2010. Cryptic error codes and having to 'learn' all of our devices is an archaic notion. Get with the times Sony.

[Icaras]

Yea, what's up with not adding the Wii?

Been a nintendo fan since day one. Wii and DSi here all the way.

[Dr. McKay]

Yea, what's up with not adding the Wii?

Been a nintendo fan since day one. Wii and DSi here all the way.

I've been a Nintendo fan since the SNES. I've owned a SNES, N64 and still have my Gamecube.
The Wii, I don't know. Althoug there are some great Nintendo franchises (SM galaxies, Metroid, etc.), I hate the fact that the Wii appeals so much to non-hardcore gamers with all that Wii-fit and other crap.
Now, all of a sudden, gaming is no longer antisocial or morally irresponsible.
All the people that used to laugh at me, calling me childish when I told them I play computer games, now do Wii Fit workouts or play a game of virtual Wii Sports tennis when they come home from work.

Well, screw'em. I hope they sprain a muscle...

My next console will probably be a PS3 or a 360.

[Dagless]

The Wii's whole library is different to the last gen, but nothing has changed in the games I get. My NES, N64, GC... all the games are by Nintendo or 3rd parties (Metroid Prime, Kirby). Even looking at my DS and PSP libraries the bulk, 75% or so, are made up of first party titles.

There's a lot of crap on the Wii yes but being the warlock I am I don't need to deal with them.

Oh and +1 here for the DC's online. They were the first to take something difficult to use and make it mainstream. The Xbox just takes it a lot further and since more people now have internet connections - it gets a lot more people online.

[TheSpaz]

I'd have to disagree and say the Dreamcast was the pioneer of online console gaming.


I'm confused. You say if it's a good game, you'll play it... unless MS was involved with it. You say you buy products based on quality but owning anything MS makes you feel guilty so even if MS made a better product you still wouldn't buy it?

I think you just need to own up to having an irrational dislike for anything MS and leave it at that. Trying to justify it is pointless.


Lethal

First of all, I meant that if the game is good on the PS3, I'll play it. If it's only for the X360, I'm obviously not going to play it.

Second of all, I already said that I do not want a Microsoft piece of hardware in my house.

Yeah, I'm an Apple fanboy and buying from the competition doesn't feel right to me whether the games are better or not. I'm happy with my PS3 and I feel like I made the right choice.

The only game that absolutely matters to me right now is Modern Warfare 2 and it runs really smoothly on the PS3. That's the game I play the most (first started with Call of Duty 4 on the computer, then Modern Warfare 2 on the computer and finally moved to Modern Warfare 2 on the PS3).

By the way... I played COD4 on the X360 last night for a little while at my friend's house (his kid has one) and I really hate the controller. I don't know if it's just less responsive/accurate or if I'm just too used to the PS Sixaxis, but it was very hard to use.

[Dr. McKay]

You're right, there IS good stuff on the Wii, but I'm more of a traditional kind of gamer (ie gamepad) so I'm not really into playing Zelda twilight or Mario Galaxy with the motion controller.

Kind of like the 3D glasses thing. Makes me look like a ...

[MacRumorUser]

I already said that I do not want a Microsoft piece of hardware in my house.

Yeah, I'm an Apple fanboy and buying from the competition doesn't feel right to me whether the games are better or not.


Blind Fanaticism of any variety is bad and fosters hatred. Be it religious or material. Being unable to rationalize and see that you are being prejudice, leads to dark paths.

You may not be strapping explosives to your chest and suicide bombing people, but that same fanatical devotion that drives someone to do that comes from the same place albeit for different reasons.

If you can rationally see that there is something wrong with that, then you should be able to demonstrate some understanding as to why your fanaticism over brand X is so ridiculous to the majority of us here, and then in some way learn to foster and adopt a more open approach to life.

Prejudice is not good in any shape or form.



edit:

Or to put it in words of your BRAND demigods :apple:™ "Think different"........

[TheSpaz]

Blind Fanaticism of any variety is bad and fosters hatred. Be it religious or material. Being unable to rationalize and see that you are being prejudice, leads to dark paths.

You may not be strapping explosives to your chest and suicide bombing people, but that same fanatical devotion that drives someone to do that comes from the same place albeit for different reasons.

If you can rationally see that there is something wrong with that, then you should be able to demonstrate some understanding as to why your fanaticism over brand X is so ridiculous to the majority of us here, and then in some way learn to foster and adopt a more open approach to life.

Prejudice is not good in any shape or form.



edit:

Or to put it in words of your BRAND demigods :apple:™ "Think different"........

It's not prejudice, it's a preference. There's nothing different about the way I behave and someone hating the Yankees because they live in Boston or a Chevy driver who will never buy a Ford and vise versa.

I'm free to do what I want and if I don't want an XBox, I won't get one. It's not like I'm harming anyone with my decision, they'll sell that XBox to someone else who actually wants it.

I don't see anything wrong with what I'm doing.

By the way, am I supposed to try other religions too? I'll have to remember to go religion shopping some time this weekend. Oh yeah, that's right... I'm prejudice because I don't like Satanism.

[ViViDboarder]

I think Nintendo might disagree with you...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview

I think Sega might disagree with you again! ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Channel

I'm not sure Sega channel had multiplayer, but it brought the console online to download new content and predated many others.

I will agree that Dreamcast made it viable and then it became more wide spread with PS2 and later Xbox.

I've been a Nintendo fan since the SNES. I've owned a SNES, N64 and still have my Gamecube.
The Wii, I don't know. Althoug there are some great Nintendo franchises (SM galaxies, Metroid, etc.), I hate the fact that the Wii appeals so much to non-hardcore gamers with all that Wii-fit and other crap.
Now, all of a sudden, gaming is no longer antisocial or morally irresponsible.
All the people that used to laugh at me, calling me childish when I told them I play computer games, now do Wii Fit workouts or play a game of virtual Wii Sports tennis when they come home from work.

Well, screw'em. I hope they sprain a muscle...

My next console will probably be a PS3 or a 360.

Wow... Just... Wow... So you don't like the Wii now, not because YOU have a problem with IT but because OTHER people like it? So you dislike it only out of spite for those who used to laugh at you? That is the most absurd thing I've ever heard on this forum... And I've read a lot of absurd things.

I have all three consoles and I would never give up my Wii! There are fun games to play on it. I don't need to always be aiming for headshots in shooters. Sometimes I want to sit down and play Mario or Wii bowling or Zelda, or any other Wii game. Just because it's "mainstream" isn't a reason to hate.

If your post was entirely sarcastic... Then touche, you got me. :p

[ViViDboarder]

It's not prejudice, it's a preference. There's nothing different about the way I behave and someone hating the Yankees because they live in Boston or a Chevy driver who will never buy a Ford and vise versa.

I'm free to do what I want and if I don't want an XBox, I won't get one. It's not like I'm harming anyone with my decision, they'll sell that XBox to someone else who actually wants it.

I don't see anything wrong with what I'm doing.

By the way, am I supposed to try other religions too? I'll have to remember to go religion shopping some time this weekend. Oh yeah, that's right... I'm prejudice because I don't like Satanism.


I think he expects you to buy every console known to man. :p

He bought the PS3 and likes it. He has no desire to play the 360. He never said that the 360 sucks and is an awful system compared to the PS3, only that he doesn't want it. Not a big deal guys...

TheSpaz, people just love giving you a hard time, haha.

[Dr. McKay]

If your post was entirely sarcastic... Then touche, you got me. :p

Maybe it was. Who knows.

I don't HATE the Wii. And people don't really laugh at me. It's just that I see people all around me that used to really loathe video games, people who had the usual prejudices against games : too violent (almost certainly leads to a gamer picking up a gun at some point in his life and just starts shooting people), too addictive, antisocial (when you're a gamer, you have no friends and you stay indoors all the time), etcetera etcetera, now playing motion games on the Wii.

Instead of the Wii fit, why don't they go to a sporting club instead?
Antisocial, violent game junkies that they are... Begone ! :D

[MacRumorUser]

He bought the PS3 and likes it. He has no desire to play the 360.

He started by saying...

He says he could not buy anything by Microsoft simply because it was by Microsoft and it would go against 'his' beliefs and loyalty to Apple.

That to me is brand pre-judice.

As we began to give him a hard time, and his stance seemingly became untenable he has since watered down his position and posted that it was the controller he found uncomfortable and other subsequent reasons or preferences to the PS3.

I think what we actually have is a person who may have a legitimate preference for choosing the PS3, but thought it might be cool to hide behind the 'Apple loyalty' pretense - thinking it buy's KUDOS on this forum.


I do not believe you have to have a 360 or a Wii, it's your choice not to. But to have a whole charade, song & dance about how it goes against everything you have ever stood for, only to subsequently reveal that you used Bootcamp on your mac & you played 360 at friends.

My point about Fanaticism is aimed at all the FANBOY's and bigots and not necessarily at the OP singly.

And OP I didn't say that you had to practice every religion, and it amazes me that you could not even think for a second rationally about what I posted. My post was that fanaticism is wrong regardless of reason, and that a little understanding and respect for others is a much better way of looking at things was the point.

You were obviously too busy backtracking your hardline stance to notice this.

[teohyc]

PS3 is a great system.

For the long run it's definitely going to be cheaper because you don't have to pay for internet play.

I'm not too sure about the statistics on the ring of death on the Xbox 360 but that played a part in deciding against XBox 360.

[TheSpaz]

He started by saying...

He says he could not buy anything by Microsoft simply because it was by Microsoft and it would go against 'his' beliefs and loyalty to Apple.

That to me is brand pre-judice.

As we began to give him a hard time, and his stance seemingly became untenable he has since watered down his position and posted that it was the controller he found uncomfortable and other subsequent reasons or preferences to the PS3.

I think what we actually have is a person who may have a legitimate preference for choosing the PS3, but thought it might be cool to hide behind the 'Apple loyalty' pretense - thinking it buy's KUDOS on this forum.


I do not believe you have to have a 360 or a Wii, it's your choice not to. But to have a whole charade, song & dance about how it goes against everything you have ever stood for, only to subsequently reveal that you used Bootcamp on your mac & you played 360 at friends.

My point about Fanaticism is aimed at all the FANBOY's and bigots and not necessarily at the OP singly.

And OP I didn't say that you had to practice every religion, and it amazes me that you could not even think for a second rationally about what I posted. My post was that fanaticism is wrong regardless of reason, and that a little understanding and respect for others is a much better way of looking at things was the point.

You were obviously too busy backtracking your hardline stance to notice this.

Umm... read my first post again. I mentioned the controller in the very first post. I'm more used to the PlayStation controllers and they haven't changed since the very first PlayStation (except for analog sticks and L1/L2 buttons).

Also, I mentioned that I could deal with having Windows installed on my Mac. It didn't seem so bad because I was still using my trusty Mac to do it. It makes a difference when I'm using the mouse that I love, the keyboard that I love and the display that I love... from a company that I love.

Yes, the biggest thing that prevented me from investing in an XBox is because of the people who made it.

I suppose I should root for the terrorists too right? I mean, I don't wanna be prejudice against them.

Apple = The good guys.
Microsoft = The bad guys.

That's just how I am. Doesn't mean I'm going to hurt anyone. I just don't want a Microsoft product in my house.

[MacRumorUser]

I suppose I should root for the terrorists too right? I mean, I don't wanna be prejudice against them.

You still can not understand my post can you???

Please could you apply a thought process before you post and stop making yourself look silly.

Blind Fanaticism of any variety is bad and fosters hatred. Be it religious or material. Being unable to rationalize and see that you are being prejudice, leads to dark paths.

You may not be strapping explosives to your chest and suicide bombing people, but that same fanatical devotion that drives someone to do that comes from the same place albeit for different reasons.


My point is that 'fanaticism' whether for Brand or Religion or any other reason is wrong and harmful.

A terrorist is exactly that. A fanatic who is so blinded by their fanatical beliefs that they are willing to harm others.









Apple = The good guys.
Microsoft = The bad guys.



And if you think that life really does boil down to such ridiculous assertions as that, then you need our pity.

I have finished wasting my time here. Console yourself in your own ignorance as much as you like.

[TheSpaz]

And if you think that life really does boil down to such ridiculous assertions as that, then you need our pity.

No, life doesn't boil down to 2 companies. It's just the way I feel about those 2 particular companies. Why does it bother you so much? If I'm going to buy a new computer... I know for a FACT I won't even CONSIDER buying anything with Windows on it because I DON'T like it. Why is that so hard to understand for you?

It's like someone from Boston rooting for The Yankees or the Packers... it doesn't make sense.

[SevenInchScrew]

I think Sega might disagree with you again! ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Channel

I'm not sure Sega channel had multiplayer, but it brought the console online to download new content and predated many others.

I will agree that Dreamcast made it viable and then it became more wide spread with PS2 and later Xbox.
After reading that link, and checking the "See Also" section at the bottom, I found out a few interesting things that I was unaware of.

First, it appears that the 2600 was truly the first console to have online functionality. With the GameLine adapter, you could download games to play right on your 2600. No multiplayer, but still, it was connected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GameLine

The next apparently was the Intellivision PlayCable. This used a connection with your cable service and could also download games to be played on the console.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayCable

Apparently the PlayCable was introduced in 1981, with the GameLine coming some time before that, though I can't seem to find a date. Either way, it would appear that these 2 machines, as crude and rudimentary as they are, were in fact, the first consoles to be "connected" in some form.

The other interesting fact I learned was that there was a modem available for the Nintendo Famicom. This was well after the 2600 and Intellivision, so obviously not the first...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famicom_Modem

But after reading that, I realized something quite amazing. Since the original Famicom had an available modem, that means that EVERY SINGLE Nintendo home console ever released, since back in the 80s, has had some form of online connectivity. Granted, this has never been GOOD connectivity, but still. That is a long time making hardware, and every step of the way, they have tried to do the online thing. I found that pretty interesting.

Other than the Wii, here are the other 2 parts from Nintendo...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64DD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_GameCube_Broadband_Adapter_and_Modem_Adapter

[ViViDboarder]

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64DD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_GameCube_Broadband_Adapter_and_Modem_Adapter

Definitely interesting... I spent a while yesterday reading all about the DD. Until then I had no clue that it added online support. I did know about the GameCube though.

[yellow]

I was a Sony/Playstation devotee until the advent of the PS3 and it's ridiculous price and problems early on in the game. I was in the market for a new console and finally decided to take the plunge, bite the bullet, swallow my pride, etc, etc, and buy an Xbox 360. I'm glad I did.. as much as I hate to admit it, Microsoft got it right with the 360 and I can't wait for the 1080 (or whatever).

[TheSpaz]

I was a Sony/Playstation devotee until the advent of the PS3 and it's ridiculous price and problems early on in the game. I was in the market for a new console and finally decided to take the plunge, bite the bullet, swallow my pride, etc, etc, and buy an Xbox 360. I'm glad I did.. as much as I hate to admit it, Microsoft got it right with the 360 and I can't wait for the 1080 (or whatever).

Hmm. Glad to see some honesty here.

Question: If you were looking for a console now, do you think you still would have chosen the 360?

See what I mean about feeling bad about buying something made by Microsoft? I couldn't do what you did, but it sounds like you had a hard time deciding.

[MacRumorUser]

See what I mean about feeling bad about buying something made by Microsoft? I couldn't do what you did.

But you did by using bootcamp on your mac :rolleyes:

You also used your friends xbox 360, your aversion to anything Microsoft never stopped you having a go on theirs :rolleyes:




If you were looking for a console now, do you think you still would have chosen the 360?

I'm glad I did.. as much as I hate to admit it, Microsoft got it right with the 360 and I can't wait for the 1080 (or whatever).


That answers that question. You still have an inability to read and comprehend other posters unless it adheres to your fixed prejudicial ideas.

[TheSpaz]

But you did by using bootcamp on your mac :rolleyes:

You also used your friends xbox 360, your aversion to anything Microsoft never stopped you having a go on theirs :rolleyes:









That answers that question. You still have an inability to read and comprehend other posters unless it adheres to your fixed prejudicial ideas.

He was saying how the PlayStation 3 used to be expensive and it had a rocky start. I was asking if he was in the market for a new system now (without owning the X360 first) if he would've still went for it.

Also, I never said I wouldn't play an XBox, at least I didn't have to pay for it.

Another thing is... I already explained to you that running Windows on my Mac hardware makes me feel better about having Windows in the first place. Especially since I use it for gaming only. I see the desktop for about 5 seconds until I launch the game. Windows just happens to be the wrapper.

I can disguise Windows by hiding it away on a separate disk inside my computer. I can't disguise a whole X360.

I really don't care if you think I'm being prejudice or not. There's nothing against not liking a product or service from a company. I'm not like I'm offending anyone.

[Dagless]

No, life doesn't boil down to 2 companies. It's just the way I feel about those 2 particular companies. Why does it bother you so much? If I'm going to buy a new computer... I know for a FACT I won't even CONSIDER buying anything with Windows on it because I DON'T like it. Why is that so hard to understand for you?

So I don't get this, you think Microsoft makes computers? They make an OS, software, peripherals, the Xbox 360 and a load of private/business/server stuff.
I use XP but only because I have to. But Microsoft make very good peripherals. I've got infrared MS mice from 1999 that are still in full working order. I've never, ever had a MS piece of hardware break on me (my brother had to get his Xbox replaced). Infact the Xbox 360 is Microsofts first and only problematic piece of hardware. There was no such problem with the original Xbox, still got mine and still use it for the XBMC from time to time.

You're well and truly entitled to your opinions but this is the equivalent to me not buying any Apple product because of yellow screened Macbooks. Or not buying any Sony consoles after the class action lawsuits regarding PS1 and PS2 lasers and the dead pixel epidemic of the early PSPs. I find the reasoning very obscure and I'm genuinely interested in it.
Just out of curiosity, given the PS3 is the first Sony console free of any major problems why don't you dislike them for their other/previous mistakes?

[yellow]

Question: If you were looking for a console now, do you think you still would have chosen the 360?

See what I mean about feeling bad about buying something made by Microsoft? I couldn't do what you did, but it sounds like you had a hard time deciding.

Knowing what I know now? Yes. I still think that Sony took the wrong path, has made a lot of missteps, and is constantly trying to play catch up. Some of the more major issues:


Looking at the walls in my local GameStop(s), it seems to me that there are simply more games for the 360 than for the PS3. This could be due to the 360's longer lifspan, but let's face it, the PS3 has been out for a while.
The controllers on the PS3 are clearly not designed for me. Whether they had the Japanese or Asians, children, women, or just smaller people in general in mind when they dragged that tired old design over to the PS3, I do not know. But I'm a big guy with big hands.
I don't think I should be forced to purchase tech that I don't want with my GAME console. If I wanted a Blueray drive, I'd by one. I understand that Sony was trying to cheat and stack the odds in favor of their supported tech (which worked), but seriously.

[ViViDboarder]

Knowing what I know now? Yes. I still think that Sony took the wrong path, has made a lot of missteps, and is constantly trying to play catch up. Some of the more major issues:


Looking at the walls in my local GameStop(s), it seems to me that there are simply more games for the 360 than for the PS3. This could be due to the 360's longer lifspan, but let's face it, the PS3 has been out for a while.
The controllers on the PS3 are clearly not designed for me. Whether they had the Japanese or Asians, children, women, or just smaller people in general in mind when they dragged that tired old design over to the PS3, I do not know. But I'm a big guy with big hands.
I don't think I should be forced to purchase tech that I don't want with my GAME console. If I wanted a Blueray drive, I'd by one. I understand that Sony was trying to cheat and stack the odds in favor of their supported tech (which worked), but seriously.


This is the same thing I kept saying, but it's turned out to not be so bad. I still prefer the 360 controller as I do have bigger hands and I do find it more comfortable.

Also, nobody is forcing you to buy the PS3. It has Blueray for reasons other than to sell BD movies. The original Playstation moved to CD's because they wanted better cutscenes in their games. Cartreges were, at the time, very limited in space. N64 carts were usually 16-32 MB. Sony's choice to use the CD for it's distribution gave it 650MB at it's disposal.

Now, with High Def everything being limited to the 8GB DL-DVD is becoming restrictive. The BD ROM gives developers a LOT more headroom for adding high definition textures and videos.

What I'm trying to say is... The choice was because it's a game console.

[yellow]

What I'm trying to say is... The choice was because it's a game console.

Then call me a cynic.

While more space is a 'legitimate' reasoning, I am not naïve enough to believe that pushing the BluRay in their game console had absolutely nothing to do with winning the HD content war. There's nothing so special about the PS3 and it's games that made it 100% necessary to put games on BlueRay discs and not on DVDs. Particularly when the early price point put the game console in the $700+ range.

[TheSpaz]

I think the PS3 is a more powerful system and it's more future-proof. Some of the games suck on it, but some of the games suck on the X360 too.

The ONLY thing the X360 has over the PS3 is that it's easier to develop games on. However, when developers create a game on the PS3 and port it to the 360, they both pretty much run and look the same.

[SevenInchScrew]

The ONLY thing the X360 has over the PS3 is that it's easier to develop games on.
It is $100 cheaper, as well. Which, if all you want is to do is play games on your game console, that is quite a large discount.

A buddy of mine was in this exact situation recently. He doesn't care about "teh console warz" and just wanted something to play Rock Band and Madden and stuff like that with his wife and brother. Online is a non-issue with him. So, he bought an Arcade for $200, an extra wireless controller, and then bought Madden '10 and Left 4 Dead 2. For basically the price of a 120GB Slim PS3, he got a console, 2 controllers, and 2 of the games he wanted.

[NoSmokingBandit]

There's nothing so special about the PS3 and it's games that made it 100% necessary to put games on BlueRay discs and not on DVDs

Yeah i love swapping discs.

[TheSpaz]

Yeah i love swapping discs.

Oh snap!

[DoFoT9]

Yeah i love swapping discs.

BD rips ftw!

[SevenInchScrew]

Yeah i love swapping discs.
I'm curious. How many games out there are multiple discs? And of those, how many are large, 50+ hour RPGs? Is swapping once every 10-15 hours really that difficult? Plus, with the ability to install the full game to the hard drive now, this is even less of an issue. At least for me.

Though I am curious to know what games are multi-disc. I only own 2 games that are, and neither "requires" a swap (ODST & Forza 3).

[NoSmokingBandit]

Iirc, Mass Effect 2 has two discs (idk i only have the pc version), and FF13 has 3 discs. Forza 3 has two discs though one is an optional install because they couldnt fit all the cars on one disc (you know this, im just saying it for the benefit of those who dont). Star Ocean: The Last Hope has 3 discs i think, though i dont know if there is swapping involved (i would assume so).

Look at it this way though. Two of the biggest 360 games of the year (ME2, FF13) are on multiple discs (and its only march!), whereas they would have been fine on one blu-ray. Sure, swapping isnt that big of a deal, but if we have the technology why should we have to settle for dvd? Swapping discs in FF[7/8/9] back in the psx era was fine because cd was the best they could do in 1994. Today we have discs that can hold 50gb, so why settle for something less?

As a direct comment to Yellow, look at MGS4. Kojima had to take content out to make it fit on a 50gb disc, but according to you its just as easy to use 6 dvds, right? How about how FF13 is on 3 dvds and still suffers from uber-compression? If MS had put a HD-DVD drive in the 360 then blu-ray probably would have lost and the 360 wouldnt look as pitiful next to the ps3. But its more important for MS to push out cheap junk than give the customer something worth owning. I have nothing against MS and i gladly play many games on windows 7, but anyone with half a brain can see that MS built the 360 as cheaply as possible. Hell, they didnt even spend the time/money to engineer a heat sink properly. Heat dissipation is pretty much the first thing you will learn in any engineering class, but MS must have missed the first few days of school.

[SevenInchScrew]

...but if we have the technology why should we have to settle for dvd?
In my opinion, cost. Why doesn't the PS3 come with a 500GB drive? Or with 802.11N? Or with an official headset? Or HD video cables? All of these things are available technologically, and would certainly be welcome from a feature standpoint. But, all of those things would also add $$$ to the already higher price of the unit. Just because something is available, doesn't mean it makes sense financially, for the console maker or the consumer.
If MS had put a HD-DVD drive in the 360 then blu-ray probably would have lost and the 360 wouldnt look as pitiful next to the ps3. But its more important for MS to push out cheap junk than give the customer something worth owning.
It doesn't look pitiful, or feel like junk, to me. I get much enjoyment from owning it.
...but anyone with half a brain can see that MS built the 360 as cheaply as possible.
I'm no business expert, but isn't that how hardware manufacturing works?
Hell, they didnt even spend the time/money to engineer a heat sink properly. Heat dissipation is pretty much the first thing you will learn in any engineering class, but MS must have missed the first few days of school.
Better show them how to do it then...

Jump In®
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[MacRumorUser]

A game swap on 360 takes all of 20 seconds to get your ar$e off the couch. Why is that a big issue? A mandatory install on ps3 can take at times 10-15 minutes on the same game. Your probably waiting longer all told on ps3 than the inconvieniance of swapping your disk on 360.

Those games on Ps3 that have used BluRays full size (namely MGS4 & FFX13) are not made up of 50gb of high res textures and mamoth gaming worlds. They are mostly made up of massive full motion video cut scenes. That does not equal gameplay. FFX13 could have been identical on 360 to ps3 cousin, but is not because of poor porting. The compression technique used for the FMV is shoddy by SquareEnix and other gameplay elements are just poorly converted rather than limited by Disc Size. Remeber it may be on 3discs but FFX13 leaves over 1gb free on each disc rather than using it to it's full potential. FFX13 should not be used to extolt the virtues of BD over DVD.

The only good thing about the port is that Game swapping in FFX13 is also minimal.

I'm also sure that MGS4 would have been more than possible on 360 if using decent compression techniques on the FMV, and the inconvieniance of swapping a few discs during the game fares well against the inconvieniance of a 10-15 min install at startup, followed by a number of further installs throughout the game.

BD has yet to successfully make it's case over DVD, and as both M$ & Sony move to what is predicted to be digital delivery media based future consoles the case may never be truly proved.

[TheSpaz]

A game swap on 360 takes all of 20 seconds to get your ar$e off the couch. Why is that a big issue? A mandatory install on ps3 can take at times 10-15 minutes on the same game. Your probably waiting longer all told on ps3 than the inconvieniance of swapping your disk on 360.

Those games on Ps3 that have used BluRays full size (namely MGS4 & FFX13) are not made up of 50gb of high res textures and mamoth gaming worlds. They are mostly made up of massive full motion video cut scenes. That does not equal gameplay. FFX13 could have been identical on 360 to ps3 cousin, but is not because of poor porting. The compression technique used for the FMV is shoddy by SquareEnix and other gameplay elements are just poorly converted rather than limited by Disc Size. Remeber it may be on 3discs but FFX13 leaves over 1gb free on each disc rather than using it to it's full potential. FFX13 should not be used to extolt the virtues of BD over DVD.

The only good thing about the port is that Game swapping in FFX13 is also minimal.

I'm also sure that MGS4 would have been more than possible on 360 if using decent compression techniques on the FMV, and the inconvieniance of swapping a few discs during the game fares well against the inconvieniance of a 10-15 min install at startup, followed by a number of further installs throughout the game.

BD has yet to successfully make it's case over DVD, and as both M$ & Sony move to what is predicted to be digital delivery media based future consoles the case may never be truly proved.

Okay.

[SevenInchScrew]

Those games on Ps3 that have used BluRays full size (namely MGS4 & FFX13)...
After reading up on this, neither of these games used the full disc. MGS4 came in at ~33GB, and FFXIII was ~37GB. So, even after Kojima claimed "Blu-ray isn't big enough for MGS4" he ended up using only 2/3 of the space.
...are not made up of 50gb of high res textures and mamoth gaming worlds. They are mostly made up of massive full motion video cut scenes.
Exactly. One takes up ~37GB (PS3), while the other has a full install size of 18.3GB (360). Given that no gameplay elements were lost in the port, and that people are reporting on the obvious downgrade in FMV quality, it shouldn't be surprising where the bulk of the disc space use is in FF games.
BD has yet to successfully make it's case over DVD...
I think, as a data delivery medium, it is a fantastic thing. I'm mean, I would love it if the 360 had Blu-ray. More disc size gives developers greater opportunity for larger, more impressive games. Not that bigger is better, but the extra space would certainly be welcome.

But, as a movie delivery device, I think Blu-ray has a lot to prove, personally. I own a handful of my favorite movies on Blu-ray, but will often just buy the DVD. I don't really care about super-ultra-mega crisp images in my movie watching. Just like how I want fun and exciting gameplay with my video games rather than flashy visuals, I want an interesting and engaging movie instead of some CGI-laden, explosion-fest. Because of that, the higher cost of Blu-ray movies, and ease of use with Netflix streaming, means my movie watching is fine in SD for now.

[NoSmokingBandit]

In my opinion, cost. Why doesn't the PS3 come with a 500GB drive? Or with 802.11N? Or with an official headset? Or HD video cables? All of these things are available technologically, and would certainly be welcome from a feature standpoint. But, all of those things would also add $$$ to the already higher price of the unit. Just because something is available, doesn't mean it makes sense financially, for the console maker or the consumer.

The ps3 was probably in production in early 2006 and draft 1.06 of N wasnt even approved until Nov of that year. Putting it in the ps3 would be like putting a hydrogen engine in the 2010 Focus.

As for the HDD, i dont think Sony really knew how people were going to use their PS3s, so they gave a 60 and a 20, both decent options in 2006 for storing a couple of movies and stuff. People then started using their ps3 as their only media hub, which worked out well because you can drop any 2.5" sata drive in the ps3 and it will work. *gasp* Non-proprietary addons! What a novel idea...

The ps3 has bigger HDD space now (same wifi, but N still hasnt been finished iirc), still has built-in everything, and id down to $300. The Arcade is $200 and looks like the starved younger brother of the ps3. Still no built-in wifi, still proprietary hdd/memory cards, still no rechargeable controller (though i may be wrong about that, have they updated it?)...


I'm no business expert, but isn't that how hardware manufacturing works?

I am still laughing over the irony of posting this on an apple forum.

Better show them how to do it then...

Jump In®
https://careers.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?ss=&jc=26&rg=all

Fair enough, but only if you go apply to Sony and teach them how to make the ps3 less complete ootb. We'll see who gets farther; someone who wants to improve a product or someone who is ok with mediocrity.


BD has yet to successfully make it's case over DVD, and as both M$ & Sony move to what is predicted to be digital delivery media based future consoles the case may never be truly proved.
Go back a few years and that can be cd vs cassette tape or dvd vs vhs.

I do hope they never fully move to digital distribution. If the next gen is all downloadable games (which i doubt, mainly because the US's internet speeds are still **** compared to the world) then i'm just going to quit gaming. I like to own the games i buy, not long-term rent them. I could rant about that for a few pages, but i'll try to control myself ;)

[SevenInchScrew]

The ps3 was probably in production in early 2006 and draft 1.06 of N wasnt even approved until Nov of that year. Putting it in the ps3 would be like putting a hydrogen engine in the 2010 Focus.
I was speaking about now, as in 2010. In your own words "if we have the technology, why should we settle?" There are 500GB laptop drives, why not offer it? We now have the final (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009) spec for 802.11N, it should be in. People play online a lot, so why not give them an official headset? This box is positioned as a High-Def tour de force, so why not toss in an HDMI cable? Hell, we now have official USB 3.0, so why not change the ports to the new spec? The answer to those questions is obvious, to me at least, though I'm betting you disagree.
The ps3 has bigger HDD space now (same wifi, but N still hasnt been finished iirc), still has built-in everything, and id down to $300. The Arcade is $200 and looks like the starved younger brother of the ps3. Still no built-in wifi, still proprietary hdd/memory cards, still no rechargeable controller (though i may be wrong about that, have they updated it?)...
Look, I'm not questioning the ADVANTAGES of the things Sony puts in their systems. They all have a purpose. Nor am I saying that MS does everything right, because that is far from the truth as well. I'm just saying, for me personally, and for many of my friends, we use our game consoles almost exclusively to play games. Period, end of story.

So, when Sony made the choice to add a lot of features into their console, they did give it a very nice spec sheet. But, it was a spec sheet that far exceeded my needs. I've never used the wifi in my PS3, my 40GB HDD is currently PACKED with ~1.5GB of PSN games, and I rarely ever have a disc (blu-ray or otherwise) inside the drive. An Arcade-level unit without those features, and only a ~$200 retail price would have been perfect for me. But alas, the $400 40GB model was the cheapest I could get at the time to quench my need for PJ Monsters and Super Stardust HD.
I am still laughing over the irony of posting this on an apple forum.
You apparently missed my point if you found my statement funny.
Fair enough, but only if you go apply to Sony and teach them how to make the ps3 less complete ootb. We'll see who gets farther; someone who wants to improve a product or someone who is ok with mediocrity.
But you see, that is where you are wrong, in my opinion. By using the term "COMPLETE" when talking about something, you are saying that it is done and final. But, as with everything in the electronics industry, nothing is ever complete. You have to choose the items and features for your device that can best serve the market and maximize profits at the time.

The reason why Sony doesn't offer a PS3 with all the things I mentioned earlier is because if they did, even though it would be an amazing piece of technology, it would probably retail for $600 (again), and not many people would buy it (again). In my opinion, Sony made some wrong choices by trying to get so many features in the box. That is all.

[NoSmokingBandit]

I was speaking about now, as in 2010. In your own words "if we have the technology, why should we settle?" There are 500GB laptop drives, why not offer it? We now have the final (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009) spec for 802.11N, it should be in. People play online a lot, so why not give them an official headset? This box is positioned as a High-Def tour de force, so why not toss in an HDMI cable? Hell, we now have official USB 3.0, so why not change the ports to the new spec? The answer to those questions is obvious, to me at least, though I'm betting you disagree.


So Sony should be able to design a Ps3 based on information that wont be finalized until 4 years later but its ok for MS to build a console with a dvd drive when theres finalized blu-ray and hd-dvd available during their design phase?

Yeah, Sony should have put a USB 3.0 port in the ps3 three years ago when USB 3 barely existed....

I didnt read the rest of your post because you arent making a whole lot of sense, tbh.

[MacRumorUser]

I do hope they never fully move to digital distribution. If the next gen is all downloadable games (which i doubt, mainly because the US's internet speeds are still **** compared to the world) then i'm just going to quit gaming. I like to own the games i buy, not long-term rent them. I could rant about that for a few pages, but i'll try to control myself ;)


Unfortunately it seems likely if 2012-2014 are the next-gen timelines, as much as I would prefer physical media myself also.

For developers it means more $ from sales, it alleviates piracy, allows them to control us with DRM, and prevents a second hand trade industry which publishers & developers hate as revenue is circumvented with trades.

Its win win win for publishers & developers. Its a pain in the a$$ for the consumer.

[Dagless]

I do hope they never fully move to digital distribution. If the next gen is all downloadable games (which i doubt, mainly because the US's internet speeds are still **** compared to the world) then i'm just going to quit gaming. I like to own the games i buy, not long-term rent them. I could rant about that for a few pages, but i'll try to control myself ;)

They're already doing this in the PC (and soon Mac) markets with Steam. Works a treat and I hope consoles catch up to this level of quality. I wouldn't like next-gen consoles to use the current tech as standard, but like I said if they get to Steams-quality then I'd be happy to be all digital.
So long as they allow backups too.

I love and swear by DD and I only have a 1.2-1.5mbps connection ;).

[MorphingDragon]

I had a 360, the 'Its Microsoft' didn't bother me. But then I had two that both died. So now I avoid Microsoft hardware like the plague. Because their Keyboards, Mice and Consoles die on me within months. :eek:

My 80GB PS3 is going strong, mainly exclusive titles. I'm getting Heavy Rain today.

---

The learning curve of the PS3 is debatable. Its reasonably well documented by IBM and Sony. I'm more willing to scratch it up to laziness.

---

In all honesty, for the next generation. I'm probably going to bite the bullet and end up getting all 3. But it'll be interesting to see when one dies if I think it will be worth replacing.

1. Who cares if there's a lot of people using Microsoft stuff everyday… doesn't mean it has to be in my house too.

2. I haven't had any issues with the free Playstation Network. I don't understand what's so bad about it (besides cross-game voice chat)

3. I don't develop for X360 so that doesn't matter to me. If the game is good, then I'll play it.

4. Blu-ray is nice but I already had a dedicated Blu-ray player

5. I'm not interested in the Move one single bit.

I buy products based on quality, not features. I don't have much faith in Microsoft products, but I have a lot of faith in Apple and Samsung for bringing high quality stuff to the market. I'm sorry it bothers you, but that's just the way I am. If I bought a Microsoft product, I would feel guilty about it. It was bad enough running their OS on my Mac, but now I don't need Windows at all thanks to Playstation 3!

But the BluRay player allows devs to put as much true HD content as possible on the PS3 :D

My hardware preference list has gone to this with the advent of the 360. (In no particular order)

Apple
Samsung
Western Digital
Nintendo
Sony
HP
Philips
LG
Logitech
Epson
Cannon
Asus/Gigabyte
Sapphire Graphics
ATi/AMD
Corsair
NZXT
Thermaltake/Highpower

Blacklist:
Seagate
Microsoft
nVidia (For their crap drivers)
The cheap/generic brands.
Dell Desktops.
Acer Laptops.

And I'll be damned to change that because some person mistakes preference for fanboyism. That list thas been built up from many years of gaming and working in the IT support industry.

---

BD is being adopted faster than DVD was. And DVD hardware back then costs as mych as BD hardware costs now.

[SevenInchScrew]

So Sony should be able to design a Ps3 based on information that wont be finalized until 4 years later but its ok for MS to build a console with a dvd drive when theres finalized blu-ray and hd-dvd available during their design phase?
There is quite a difference between one console (360) launching 6 months BEFORE either HD disc format goes on sale, and the other (PS3) coming out 6 months AFTER. Especially when one of those companies is not only in the position of selling a gaming/media device, but also trying to promote a format for which their in-house movies will be delivered on.
Yeah, Sony should have put a USB 3.0 port in the ps3 three years ago when USB 3 barely existed....
Hey, I'm just using your logic here. The USB 3.0 spec was final toward the end 2008, and if I'm not mistaken, the PS3 did just get a redesign. So again, by your logic, the technology is there, why not use it?? Also, Sony was using "Draft-N" wifi in their laptops well before the spec was final, so why not have it in the Slim PS3 as well?

I didnt read the rest of your post because you arent making a whole lot of sense, tbh.
Here, let me REALLY dumb it down for you...

I believe that Sony wanted Blu-ray to win more than they wanted to make an affordable, consumer-friendly game console, and forcing it into the machine raised the starting cost above what a lot of people, myself included, believe a gaming console should cost. All of these things I've been proposing have been hypothetical exaggerations to prove my point that, while they do make for a very high-tech, amazing machine, they also burden the consumer with higher costs that they might not need.

You say - If we have the technology, why should we have to settle for less?

I'm saying - Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[DoFoT9]

I believe that Sony wanted Blu-ray to win more than they wanted to make an affordable, consumer-friendly game console, and forcing it into the machine raised the starting cost above what a lot of people, myself included, believe a gaming console should cost. All of these things I've been proposing have been hypothetical exaggerations to prove my point that, while they do make for a very high-tech, amazing machine, they also burden the consumer with higher costs that they might not need.

You say - If we have the technology, why should we have to settle for less?

I'm saying - Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

more money in BD. in recent months, for the first time, DVD sellings have gone into the negative growth. this is because people are SLOWLY turning to BD (or DD i guess too) - i think its a great thing. on that note, we should be moving up and on to new technologies. i hate using the old technology when something newer is there (except USB3, its crap ;)).

gamers wont benefit from spec-N, have you ever watched your upload speed whilst gaming? GBoE makes up if you wanna stream ripped BD movies (where bandwidth required is >~3MB/s). sony doesnt want you doing that though, they want you to purchase their BD MOVIES!

[SevenInchScrew]

more money in BD.
Oh, totally. I didn't say it doesn't make sense. I'm just saying, when people tout Blu-ray as this feature that Sony graced the PS3 with to crush MS and their lowly DVD-spec'd 360, they are missing the point of the drives inclusion. And to be honest, as someone who was a very big fan of the PlayStation brand growing up, it stings a little seeing a company you used to really like use an entire market-segment as their guinea pig for their fancy, new tech. Like I said, I just want good games, but a 50GB BD-Rom doesn't grant a game instant A+ status.
(except USB3, its crap ;)).

gamers wont benefit from spec-N....
Oh trust me, I know. I was just using them as examples of how I personally think NSB's logic is flawed in this discussion. :p

[NoSmokingBandit]

Hey, I'm just using your logic here. The USB 3.0 spec was final toward the end 2008, and if I'm not mistaken, the PS3 did just get a redesign. So again, by your logic, the technology is there, why not use it??

Once a console goes into production its very hard to change major hardware parts like the entire usb chipset and still have it function properly. This is why consoles *rarely* get faster reading disc drives, more ram, etc... Firmware issues will crop up, then you have to explain to the developers why they have to put two different binaries on their disc, which causes more overhead in the storage medium... It just gets really messy really quickly.

The ps2 did get an incredibly minor cpu speed boost (4mhz or something close) when the slims were released, but developers could just keep their engines set at 294.whatever MHz and keep on trucking, nobody would notice an extra 5mhz anyway. USB3 on the other hand would be something people would notice and would want to take advantage of so you cant start overhauling the system half way through its life. So you pack everything in the original specs so you can last as long as possible and keep cranking out good games.

I'm beginning to think you have no idea how these things work.

[DoFoT9]

Wirelessly posted (nokia e63: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.2; U; Series60/3.1 NokiaE63-1/100.21.110; Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

totally agree with what you said seven. Nsb also has a point about changes of hardware though, you just can't change it for cross compatibility.

500gb bds would be nice, very crisp but yea they don't indicate game playability.

Sorry for the short reply, on my mobile!

[MorphingDragon]

Wirelessly posted (nokia e63: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.2; U; Series60/3.1 NokiaE63-1/100.21.110; Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

totally agree with what you said seven. Nsb also has a point about changes of hardware though, you just can't change it for cross compatibility.

500gb bds would be nice, very crisp but yea they don't indicate game playability.

Sorry for the short reply, on my mobile!

Yet Microsoft go around putting different chipsets in their consoles left and right?

[MacRumorUser]

And I'll be damned to change that because some person mistakes preference for fanboyism. That list thas been built up from many years of gaming and working in the IT support industry.

---

BD is being adopted faster than DVD was. And DVD hardware back then costs as mych as BD hardware costs now.

Personal preferences are of course normal and not in dispute. However there is a big difference to preference and fanboyism, however there is a lot of illogical fanboyism that permiates forums like this you have to agree.

Also can you provide actual imperitive evidence that blu-ray takeup is faster than DVD as I simply do not believe that statement. I have found only one article on google dating back to 2008 which claimed so, and more that say otherwise. Blu-ray is 4 years old by now, DVD from my own observational point was taken up far quicker. And I'm an early adoptee of most technoligies & formats (cdi, video cd, minidisc, philips dcc, laserdisc, HD-DVD, blu-ray etc..)

[MorphingDragon]

Personal preferences are of course normal and not in dispute. However there is a big difference to preference and fanboyism, however there is a lot of illogical fanboyism that permiates forums like this you have to agree.

But he just doesn't want Microsoft products. How is that not personal preference?

Also can you provide actual imperitive evidence that blu-ray takeup is faster than DVD as I simply do not believe that statement. I have found only one article on google dating back to 2008 which claimed so, and more that say otherwise. Blu-ray is 4 years old by now, DVD from my own observational point was taken up far quicker. And I'm an early adoptee of most technoligies & formats (cdi, video cd, minidisc, philips dcc, laserdisc, HD-DVD, blu-ray etc..)

Theres a gadget show article somewhere. But Im not allowed to access their website now becasue Im a New Zealand IP.

[SevenInchScrew]

I'm beginning to think you have no idea how these things work.
No, I get it. You have just COMPLETELY missed the point of this discussion.
I am still laughing over the irony of posting this on an apple forum.
I didnt read the rest of your post because you arent making a whole lot of sense, tbh.
Had you not been "laughing" so much, and actually took the time to read people's posts, you might be able to follow the discussion better.

My point is not about the minutiae of the tech. I get that even minor changes can have larger, far-reaching effects on the entire system. Had you actually read what I was saying, multiple times, you would see that I was simply using those newer tech parts as exaggerated examples of why I feel your logic is incorrect.

My point, as it has been THE ENTIRE TIME, is that while it is all well and good to have high-tech (current) parts in your consumer electronics devices, when they come with a much higher cost than people are expecting, that isn't good. Launching the PS3 with the specs it has, and at $600, means that over time, there is only so low the retail price will get.

You say that the 360 was "built as cheaply as possible" as a sort of knock on the system. You can lecture people all you want on how well or not the 360 was engineered, but keeping high-cost parts (HD-DVD, wifi, HDD) out of the base machine is precisely why it is selling for only $200 now AND making them a profit. Contrast that to Sony who is only at $300, and still losing $$$ on every PS3 sold.

I couldn't care less about the spec of the machine. I want good games from my game machine. Even an Arcade with no HDD, wifi, or HD-DVD, which you refer to as "cheap", "pitiful", "junk" and "mediocre", will play one of my favorite games this generation (Geo Wars 2). And while I have many games I really enjoy on my PS3, it is just a shame that it had to cost me so much to get them, considering most of those spec-sheet highlight parts aren't a factor with them.

[TheSpaz]

I guess I'm not the typical Mac user that I thought I was. I wanted a powerful adult gaming system. There were 2 requirements in my head before I made the purchase.

1. Can't be a Wii
2. Can't be a Microsoft or Windows-based/DirectX-based product.

That didn't leave me with a whole lot of options. The fact that I had all the previous generation Playstations and the recent PS3 Slim really made my decision easier.

I guess that I thought most Apple users were anti-Microsoft. Is that so hard to believe?

Anyway, I'm still enjoying my PS3 and that's all that matters now. The games that matter to me most are available and run great.

[JackAxe]

You should have labeled this thread "Why I'm 'PRO' PS3" Mr. TheSpaz.. ;)

Adult "gaming" system. Is that some kind of oxymoron?

[RaceTripper]

I have both a XBox 360 and a PS3 connected to my Dell 3008WFP via a HDMI switcher. It makes absolutely no difference to me which one I use. It's the games that matter. Right now I'm playing Uncharted 2 on PS3 and Forza3 on the XBox.

I do like that backing up to external storage is drop dead simple on the PS3. On the XBox360 it's such a PITA that I don't bother doing it.

I have another PS3 Slim in the living room that's used as a Blu-ray player.

[Mackilroy]

I guess I'm not the typical Mac user that I thought I was. I wanted a powerful adult gaming system. There were 2 requirements in my head before I made the purchase.

1. Can't be a Wii
2. Can't be a Microsoft or Windows-based/DirectX-based product.

That didn't leave me with a whole lot of options. The fact that I had all the previous generation Playstations and the recent PS3 Slim really made my decision easier.

I guess that I thought most Apple users were anti-Microsoft. Is that so hard to believe?

Anyway, I'm still enjoying my PS3 and that's all that matters now. The games that matter to me most are available and run great.
Ah, Spaz. It's always fun watching you post, and then watch almost everyone else disagree with you. :)

I'd be willing to wager a lot of Mac users also have PCs, or bought Macs after switching from a Windows machine because they knew they could still run Windows if they needed to. Steve Jobs (he's your Leader, right?) even said, "We want to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose." If buying anything MS makes feels like a 'betrayal' to you, well, that's just pretty sad. ;)

Personally, I started with a Xbox 360, then bought a PS3 for Blu-ray, and now I haven't turned either of them on in months. I've gone back to gaming on my computer under Windows 7 entirely.

[NoSmokingBandit]

@Morphing Dragon
The difference between the 360's chipsets are kind of like the change in the PS3's CPU over the years. Just a minor change due to manufacturing methods. They didnt change the architecture or functionality of anything like changing from USB2 to USB3 or whatever, just minor revisions, mainly smaller nm chips, which happens on every console over time because smaller chips use less power and generate less heat. The Cell started out at 90nm and i think its down to 45nm now. Still the same chip, just more power/heat efficient. MS just names their revisions and Sony doesnt (other than the slim, of course).


Adult "gaming" system. Is that some kind of oxymoron?

People often bash the wii saying it only has little kids games, but fun has no age limit, imo. I had some people over a while ago and everyone from 16 to 60 was playing Wii Bowling and having a great time. That wouldnt have happened with COD or whatever.

I do remember a recent poll saying the majority of ps3 owners were around 30 years old or something. I dont recall what the other console's stats were, but they were younger by a few years. The older generation may not like the fast-paces flashy games but many do enjoy a relaxing game like Wii Sports or a puzzle game like Picross (which i am currently addicted to myself, btw).

[MacRumorUser]

But he just doesn't want Microsoft products. How is that not personal preference?


So your saying it's a preference and he's not a fanboy?

Yeah, I'm an Apple fanboy and buying from the competition doesn't feel right to me whether the games are better or not.



Guess you didn't Spaz's little acceptance speech.




Or is self confesion discounted? ;)

[SevenInchScrew]

People often bash the wii saying it only has little kids games, but fun has no age limit, imo.
I know you don't like to read my posts, but at least stop stealing my lines... ;)

Post #40, this thread:
Fun has no age limit.

[MorphingDragon]

So your saying it's a preference and he's not a fanboy?


Is fanboyism any different than having Sony as a preference and avoiding Microsoft like the plague?

[JackAxe]

People often bash the wii saying it only has little kids games, but fun has no age limit, imo. I had some people over a while ago and everyone from 16 to 60 was playing Wii Bowling and having a great time. That wouldnt have happened with COD or whatever.


You're preaching to the choir. I was commenting on TheSpaz's comment. :)

I own a Wii -- bought it at release -- as do all of my friends and most of my family. Great console with something for everybody.

[MorphingDragon]

You're preaching to the choir. I was commenting on TheSpaz's comment. :)

I own a Wii -- bought it at release -- as do all of my friends and most of my family. Great console with something for everybody.

The weird thing is, I bought a Wii to get SSBB. But I got twilight pricess and Fire Emblem - Radiant Dawn. Loved the first two but severly dissapointed by SSBB.

(I've played path of radiance too, should've kept for a little while longer. It goes for a lot now.)

[JackAxe]

I never picked up Path of Radiance, but I bought Radiant Dawn, I just never played it beyond the initial try. :o

And I could never get into the SSBB games. Gave my Cube bundled copy to a friend's son.

I bough the Wii mainly for Zelda, but pretty much anything Nintendo. The game I ended up liking the best was Resident Evil 4 Wii, which I could not get into on the Cube or the PS2.

[MacRumorUser]

Is fanboyism any different than having Sony as a preference and avoiding Microsoft like the plague?

Oh my goodness yes.

A preference is based on usage. A knowledge of the subject. A rational experience of a product normally first hand.

To prefer somthing you must first 'know' somthing about what you are prefering too.


Fanboys do not do this. They base decisions on arbiturary things such as the brand labeling rather than an actual first hand knowledge or experience of the goods, product or subject in hand.

They think 'blind' brand loyalty is normal, and will often use missinformation and illogical positioning (despite realising hypocracy) to backup their stance on the subject. They will always fail to listen to reason and will often become aggressive.

In this case...

TheSpaz refuses to give the 360 a chance unlike you who owned one. He makes decisions not based of first hand usage and therefore it is not a preference. He uses missinformation to say how one is better than the other (no hdmi etc..) and he struggles to see how anyone else can not think like he does (assumes every mac owner hates Microsft) and is unable to comprehend an other perspective over his own and flippantly dismisses the notion of doing so. He may have remained civil and his tone less aggressive than others who do the same and yet the underlying part is the same.
The very definition of a fanboy.

[MorphingDragon]

Oh my goodness yes.

A preference is based on usage. A knowledge of the subject. A rational experience of a product normally first hand.

To prefer somthing you must first 'know' somthing about what you are prefering too.


Fanboys do not do this. They base decisions on arbiturary things such as the brand labeling rather than an actual first hand knowledge or experience of the goods, product or subject in hand.

They think 'blind' brand loyalty is normal, and will often use missinformation and illogical positioning (despite realising hypocracy) to backup their stance on the subject. They will always fail to listen to reason and will often become aggressive.

In this case...

TheSpaz refuses to give the 360 a chance unlike you who owned one. He makes decisions not based of first hand usage and therefore it is not a preference. He uses missinformation to say how one is better than the other (no hdmi etc..) and he struggles to see how anyone else can not think like he does (assumes every mac owner hates Microsft) and is unable to comprehend an other perspective over his own and flippantly dismisses the notion of doing so. He may have remained civil and his tone less aggressive than others who do the same and yet the underlying part is the same.
The very definition of a fanboy.

I was going to say its all in the wording but thats very hard to argue against!

[NoSmokingBandit]

I know you don't like to read my posts, but at least stop stealing my lines... ;)

Post #40, this thread:

I knew i reead that somewhere recently, but its true so i dont mind ripping you off :D

[TheSpaz]

I've been an Apple fan way before Macs could natively run Windows. I'm sorry that I'm not as open as all of you.

Yes, I avoided the 360 because it's Microsoft product.

I also haven't given Budism a chance or crack cocaine and I haven't tried those either.

I just don't like Microsoft as a company and that's my stance.

Why is that so hard to understand. Also, about the Wii.. It seems to be geared for the younger croud with the way it's designed, the games, the low red grapics and it's too cartoony for me. I wanted something powerful that will last a long time. I think the PS3 will come out on top again.

[Dagless]

I think the PS3 will come out on top again.

You mean against the Wii? I'll give you Xbox but Wii?

[NoSmokingBandit]

Why is that so hard to understand. Also, about the Wii.. It seems to be geared for the younger croud with the way it's designed, the games, the low red grapics and it's too cartoony for me. I wanted something powerful that will last a long time. I think the PS3 will come out on top again.

Wind Waker, Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, every Mario Kart, etc...

All low res and cartoony, but some of the most fun games ever made. Ratchet and Clank is a fairly cartoonish game but its the most fun series ever, imo. I've always loved R&C.

Im guessing you've never played anything cel-shaded then? Sly Cooper, Paper Mario, Valkyria Chronicles, Viewtiful Joe... All of which are cartoonish (some more than others of course), so they must not be fun, right?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that games are fun no matter how pretty they are or what age group they are aimed toward. Im playing God of War 3 and pokemon HG right now and both are fun as crap despite one being rated M for blood, sex, violence, and everything else while the other is rated E and is generally enjoyed by kids during recess. Fun is fun.

[skate71290]

Either I don't know what to look for, or am just blind, but I don't really notice this. The multi-platform games I have played for the PS3 work just fine for me.

I bought my PS3 for a reason you don't list - at the time, it was more cost effective to buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, since (at the time) it was the best one out there.

Since then, there have been three VERY good exclusive titles (Uncharted 2, MGS4, and LBP) and I haven't regretted it at all, but you may want to wait for somebody who has owned both to comment.

Don't forget about the build quality differences!

i have noticed frame-rate issues - buy Call of Duty 5: Word at War, get the Der Riese Zombie map... have 2 of you on Split-screen then both get the PPSH and upgrade it... hit about round 15+ and both pull the trigger and hold it... watch the pretty colours in slow-mo and the awesome sound of it frame jumping ;)

[Mackilroy]

I've been an Apple fan way before Macs could natively run Windows. I'm sorry that I'm not as open as all of you.

Yes, I avoided the 360 because it's Microsoft product.

I also haven't given Budism a chance or crack cocaine and I haven't tried those either.

I just don't like Microsoft as a company and that's my stance.

Why is that so hard to understand.
Your stance isn't hard to understand. It's just hard to agree with. I'd never used a PlayStation before I bought my PS3, but I gave Sony a chance.

[bcrguy]

Your stance isn't hard to understand. It's just hard to agree with. I'd never used a PlayStation before I bought my PS3, but I gave Sony a chance.

i dont find it hard to agree with.. but i have been a playstation guy since i was 9 (19 now).. i have had a lot of friends who love their xbox's but they have also had lots of issues with them.. now most of my friends have ps3's but no ones has issues...

and iv given Microsoft many chances with the xbox but i don't like it (yes i know personal preference) but i dont like the way the controller feels (yes i know it comes with regular play) or how the system software it set up.. i find ps3 to be very easy to navigate as well as very comfortable controller

i say xbox meaning both the original and the 360..
currently i do not own a ps3 but i do own a ps1 ps2 and psp..

[TheSpaz]

Wind Waker, Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, every Mario Kart, etc...

All low res and cartoony, but some of the most fun games ever made. Ratchet and Clank is a fairly cartoonish game but its the most fun series ever, imo. I've always loved R&C.

Im guessing you've never played anything cel-shaded then? Sly Cooper, Paper Mario, Valkyria Chronicles, Viewtiful Joe... All of which are cartoonish (some more than others of course), so they must not be fun, right?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that games are fun no matter how pretty they are or what age group they are aimed toward. Im playing God of War 3 and pokemon HG right now and both are fun as crap despite one being rated M for blood, sex, violence, and everything else while the other is rated E and is generally enjoyed by kids during recess. Fun is fun.

I was not in the market for those types of games and I never said that people can't have fun with the Wii. I'm not into the cartoony games and the Wii seems to be geared toward that. Also, it's not next-gen hardware. It's has some pretty horrid graphics abilities.

When you look at Wii titles, it looks like a family platform. It's a fisher price toy… I wanted a hardcore gaming console.

Yeah, I don't care for the Wii… it's not my type of system.

[macfan881]

My brother and I were talking about how Every NPD figures come out the Wii and DS are 1&2 and its pretty astounding, cause considering especailly with the DS 90 percent of the games are shovelware. I think Since after they Made Nintendo 64 they pretty much think that Were Nintendo and since that we can have these developers develop cheap crap games and since its a "Nintendo" game people will go out and buy it. I think Nintendo is just basicly in it for the money now cause if they were in for selling games the Game Cube wouldn't have flop and the Wii would have next gen hardware.

[SevenInchScrew]

It's has some pretty horrid graphics abilities.
Say what you will about "teh graffix", but I can tell you, personally, I haven't had as much fun with any game in the last 10 or 15 years as I do when playing Super Mario Galaxy. And before that, it was playing Super Mario 64, which even now, 15 years later, still beats the pants off just about every game out there in terms of fun-factor. And hell, one of my other favorite games in recent years is Geometry Wars 2 on 360. That game is just a flat 2D plane with little shapes flying around on screen; hardly something that is pushing the bounds of modern gaming visuals. But it doesn't matter what it looks like when the controller is in my hand. The game is fun, as a GAME should be.

Just like I was discussing earlier about how specs don't guarantee a great console, amazing graphics don't automatically mean a game is fun. It sounds like you are more interested in the specs and perception of a system, rather than the games and fun that can be had with it. Which is fine, that is your prerogative. But, by shunning some systems (and brands) without giving them a real chance, you are missing out on some great experiences.
My brother and I were talking about how Every NPD figures come out the Wii and DS are 1&2 and its pretty astounding, cause considering especailly with the DS 90 percent of the games are shovelware. I think Since after they Made Nintendo 64 they pretty much think that Were Nintendo and since that we can have these developers develop cheap crap games and since its a "Nintendo" game people will go out and buy it. I think Nintendo is just basicly in it for the money now cause if they were in for selling games the Game Cube wouldn't have flop and the Wii would have next gen hardware.
The thing that Nintendo does distinctly different than every other console maker is they design the hardware for THEIR OWN games, and then let other developers in. If you look at every Nintendo console since, well, forever, the top titles will always be the usual names; Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. If you look at those same NPD lists every month, where the DS and Wii are dominating, you will also see those same familiar Nintendo names appear in the list of top game titles. That isn't by accident.

Just as I was saying to Spaz above, the main thing that Nintendo holds very dear to their development is fun. People buy those games because they know that, while it might not be the most flashy game out there, Nintendo KNOWS fun. While they have had their moments of "high end" console graphics, that has never been a strong suit for them. They might not be the best looking at the time, but when I think back over the last 25 years or so, the number of Nintendo games that I thoroughly enjoyed playing outnumbers all other consoles combined, and that is including Sega.

A crappy game with amazing visuals is still a crappy game, but a fun game with crappy visuals is still fun.

[TheSpaz]

Say what you will about "teh graffix", but I can tell you, personally, I haven't had as much fun with any game in the last 10 or 15 years as I do when playing Super Mario Galaxy. And before that, it was playing Super Mario 64, which even now, 15 years later, still beats the pants off just about every game out there in terms of fun-factor. And hell, one of my other favorite games in recent years is Geometry Wars 2 on 360. That game is just a flat 2D plane with little shapes flying around on screen; hardly something that is pushing the bounds of modern gaming visuals. But it doesn't matter what it looks like when the controller is in my hand. The game is fun, as a GAME should be.

Just like I was discussing earlier about how specs don't guarantee a great console, amazing graphics don't automatically mean a game is fun. It sounds like you are more interested in the specs and perception of a system, rather than the games and fun that can be had with it. Which is fine, that is your prerogative. But, by shunning some systems (and brands) without giving them a real chance, you are missing out on some great experiences.

The thing that Nintendo does distinctly different than every other console maker is they design the hardware for THEIR OWN games, and then let other developers in. If you look at every Nintendo console since, well, forever, the top titles will always be the usual names; Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. If you look at those same NPD lists every month, where the DS and Wii are dominating, you will also see those same familiar Nintendo names appear in the list of top game titles. That isn't by accident.

Just as I was saying to Spaz above, the main thing that Nintendo holds very dear to their development is fun. People buy those games because they know that, while it might not be the most flashy game out there, Nintendo KNOWS fun. While they have had their moments of "high end" console graphics, that has never been a strong suit for them. They might not be the best looking at the time, but when I think back over the last 25 years or so, the number of Nintendo games that I thoroughly enjoyed playing outnumbers all other consoles combined, and that is including Sega.

A crappy game with amazing visuals is still a crappy game, but a fun game with crappy visuals is still fun.

I didn't say that crappy graphics couldn't be "fun". I didn't want that type of system. If I wanted "fun" 2D sidescroller games, I'd pick up a cheap NES.

Fact is… I have loads of fun with High Definition games and it's what I prefer.

I get it… you enjoy Nintendo games… I do not. Too fisher-pricy for me. I'm not a Nintendo fan. I liked the original Mario games, but I've grown out of those. I'm into high def graphics and more adult-oriented games.

[MythicFrost]

I'll be going for the iPad. However if I were to consider a console as such, I'd probably go for the xbox 360, I still prefer computer gaming over console gaming in a way though.

[SevenInchScrew]

I'm into high def graphics and more adult-oriented games.
That's a shame. You are missing out on some great titles.

Out of curiosity, do the "PixelJunk" games on the PSN meet your standards?

[spoon man]

I did have a 360 about 2 years ago but it started to produce black smoke out the back whist I was playing it. Then gave me 4 red light's and Microsoft wouldn’t replace it unless I parted ways with £100 cash :eek: so I was like ok then ill get a ps3 and use my 360 as a door stop ;).

[MacRumorUser]

I've been an Apple fan way before Macs could natively run Windows. I'm sorry that I'm not as open as all of you.

Yes, I avoided the 360 because it's Microsoft product.

I also haven't given Budism a chance or crack cocaine and I haven't tried those either.

I just don't like Microsoft as a company and that's my stance.

Why is that so hard to understand.


I adore the way you twist things in your head. You are so closed minded that you act like it us who have a problem because we are not.

You still fail to rationalize and miss the point of any argument you are given. You haven't looked into Buddhism, well that's fair enough. But your also not coming on here and posting/saying 'All buddhist's are bad guys', are you ? If you were... that's where any issue with you not being or having no knowledge of their faith would be a problem.

Not trying a drug is a different thing entirely and an absolutely juvenile thing to say and again your the one having difficulty understanding the reason why - not us.

You arguments are flawed, based on prejudice and little ignorance, we understand that's how you feel, we fail to agree with that positioning.


But what is the biggest joke about all your posts is how you arrogantly ask 'I fail to see why you can't all understand that?'... As if it is our lack of understanding that is in question, when in reality the only one lacking understanding, knowledge and an ability to look at a wider perspective is you.

For all your posturing, your arguments continue to be based on fallacious statements and illogical reasoning. You arbitrarily throw in the odd flippant statement which has no relevance to the subject, but acts like a decoy diverting the issue at hand with irrelevant waffle.

This is a discussion forum, we all understand you have an opinion. We do not have to all agree. However you can not discuss with anyone, anything - unless they are willing to see things from others perspective or look at their stance and see if it stands reasoning. You can not do that, and therefore no one here is arguing with you - simply because you have made it utterly pointless and redundant doing so due to your attitude.




i dont find it hard to agree with..

and iv given Microsoft many chances with the xbox but i don't like it...

This is why you have a preference rather than a flawed idealogical position. Please read my post earlier and the difference will become more apparent.


A preference is based on usage. A knowledge of the subject. A rational experience of a product normally first hand.

To prefer somthing you must first 'know' somthing about what you are prefering too.


Fanboys do not do this. They base decisions on arbiturary things such as the brand labeling rather than an actual first hand knowledge or experience of the goods, product or subject in hand.

They think 'blind' brand loyalty is normal, and will often use missinformation and illogical positioning (despite realising hypocracy) to backup their stance on the subject. They will always fail to listen to reason and will often become aggressive.

In this case...

TheSpaz refuses to give the 360 a chance unlike you who owned one. He makes decisions not based of first hand usage and therefore it is not a preference. He uses missinformation to say how one is better than the other (no hdmi etc..) and he struggles to see how anyone else can not think like he does (assumes every mac owner hates Microsft) and is unable to comprehend an other perspective over his own and flippantly dismisses the notion of doing so. He may have remained civil and his tone less aggressive than others who do the same and yet the underlying part is the same.
The very definition of a fanboy.

what about a bluray RIPPER. hehehe. ps3 can do that ;)


With the prospect of the new software update disabling this by getting away with Linux it seems Sony want to close down on those few users doing this.

New PlayStation 3 Update Removes Linux Support
Firmware disables "Install Other OS" system feature available in all pre-slim models.
by Jim Reilly
March 28, 2010 - Sony plans to release a new Playstation 3 firmware update worldwide this week in hopes of combating potential software piracy.

System update v3.21 will disable the console's "Install Other OS" feature, which allowed users to install the Linux operating system. The feature is currently only available in PlayStation 3 models released prior to the "slim" redesign that launched in September 2009. The update will go live on April 1.

SCEA's corporate communications director Patrick Seybold notes on the PlayStation Blog the feature is being removed due to "security concerns."

"In addition, disabling the "Other OS" feature will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system," Seybold wrote.

Those who use Linux can choose not to upgrade, however, Sony lists several features that will no longer be available:
* Ability to sign in to PlayStation Network and use network features that require signing in to PlayStation Network, such as online features of PS3 games and chat

* Playback of PS3 software titles or Blu-ray Disc videos that require PS3 system software version 3.21 or later

* Playback of copyright-protected videos that are stored on a media server (when DTCP-IP is enabled under Settings)

* Use of new features and improvements that are available on PS3 system software 3.21 or later
"For those PS3 users who are currently using the "Other OS" feature but choose to install the system software update, to avoid data loss they first need to back-up any data stored within the hard drive partition used by the "Other OS," as they will not be able to access that data following the update," Seybold added.

IGN has contacted Sony for additional details. We'll keep you updated if we hear more.

[Dagless]

My brother and I were talking about how Every NPD figures come out the Wii and DS are 1&2 and its pretty astounding, cause considering especailly with the DS 90 percent of the games are shovelware. I think Since after they Made Nintendo 64 they pretty much think that Were Nintendo and since that we can have these developers develop cheap crap games and since its a "Nintendo" game people will go out and buy it. I think Nintendo is just basicly in it for the money now cause if they were in for selling games the Game Cube wouldn't have flop and the Wii would have next gen hardware.

Oh my word.
90% of any games on any system are shovelware. It's been that way since the NES/Master System/Commodore. How many games for your console of choice do you own? And then what percentage of the entire consoles library do you own?
Nintendo develops "cheap crap games", really? These are the guys that brought us one of the highest rated games of this generation and who brought Brawl - one of the most content packed fighting games of all time. Mario Kart comes with 32 tracks, even the DS version has that many. Compare that to something that Wipeout. F-Zero GX had 32 (IIRC) characters, a ship building mode, god knows how many tracks (38, again IIRC). Twilight Princess and Galaxy were epicly scaled games with very high production values... they just weren't in HD.

I don't get how anyone can make such claims against Nintendo and not compare them to hijinks from other manufacturers. And what only "in it for the money now"? I hate to break it to you but they all are yet they all release good, well designed, high quality games.


What about Activision charging $15 for 4 maps for MW2, Media Molecule charging a few £ for what amounts to as new textures for LBP, Microsoft charging a few £ for virtual clothes for a virtual avatar?

[yellow]

So in the end, if spending 15 seconds swapping a DVD saves me $400 over the cost of a BluRay disc that I didn't want in the first place.. so be it. Sony (et al) won the HD disc war with a (IMO) shady business practice. I wonder what would have happened if Microsoft had done the same in the 360. Frankly, that kind of business practice is right up their alley.

Other than the RRoD issues on the 360, I'm completely happy playing it on my Sony TV and have no reason to switch or purchase a PS3 anytime soon.

[TheSpaz]

That's a shame. You are missing out on some great titles.

Out of curiosity, do the "PixelJunk" games on the PSN meet your standards?

I do not know what PixelJunk is.

I adore the way you twist things in your head...

*snipped the huge post*


Listen, I'm not going to try your stupid XBox. It wasn't even in question when I was shopping for a gaming console. I do not want one and I don't wanna give one a chance.

- I don't like the company that makes it
- I don't like the controllers
- I don't like the user interface
- I heard that they break easily (can't confirm this)
- I've always been a Sony fan
- I've always owned PlayStation
- I've never been a Nintendo fan (too bad too because I'm missing out on some great titles :rolleyes:)
- I'm a person who has some brand loyalty and I'm sure Sony doesn't mind
- I've always been an Apple fan without question. I've never thought (Hey, I wanna buy a PC and see if I like it).
- I already felt horrible about installing Windows on my Mac Pro, but at least it was on a separate drive and I could choose not to boot into it.
- Windows 7 isn't bad. I didn't use the OS much but it seems better than Vista (which was constantly slow).
-Now that I have a dedicated gaming machine that's not made by my least favorite company and now that Steam is coming to the Mac (with Valve games), I'll be able to delete Windows for good.

Yeah, I'm pretty close minded about Microsoft, but I don't care.

I think my fan behavior is the same as people from Boston liking the Red Sox and people from New York liking the Yankees.

I chose a team and I have no intentions of switching.

So in the end, if spending 15 seconds swapping a DVD saves me $400 over the cost of a BluRay disc that I didn't want in the first place.. so be it. Sony (et al) won the HD disc war with a (IMO) shady business practice. I wonder what would have happened if Microsoft had done the same in the 360. Frankly, that kind of business practice is right up their alley

Excuse my potential ignorance, but aren't XBox games the same price as PS3 games? I don't understand where you're getting the $400 savings from.

Also, can you explain the shady business practices that Sony was doing with Blu-ray?

[Taustin Powers]

Don't hold back now - tell us how you really feel! :)

[NoSmokingBandit]

With the prospect of the new software update disabling this by getting away with Linux it seems Sony want to close down on those few users doing this.
Look at the details...
Update 3-2-1
Released on April 1st
No more linux, alienating all the massive render farms and super computer clusters

I'm guessing its a joke. A bad joke, but a joke nonetheless.


So in the end, if spending 15 seconds swapping a DVD saves me $400 over the cost of a BluRay disc that I didn't want in the first place.

Where the hell are you paying $400 more for a ps3? Even at launch they werent that much more than the 360.
I guess i'd be bitter too if i got ripped off that badly.

Keep in mind too that blu-ray vs dvd isnt just about swapping, just look at FF13. The ps3 version is all uncompressed and gorgeous whereas the 360 version had to have the life compressed out of it just to fit on 3 dvds.

But dont let that sway you, theres no discernible benefit to blu-ray, right?

[MacRumorUser]

Don't hold back now - tell us how you really feel! :)

^ LOL He misses the point all the time.

We don't care if he prefer's one system or the other.

It's the illogical thought process and ignorance that he uses to make his decision that we are saying is flawed, not the actual outcome.

But frankly at this given stage I think it's apparent were talking to a brick wall. ;)

Thank god the majority of people on here are not as closed minded and ignorant, otherwise we would have one cr@ppy forum.


Look at the details...
Update 3-2-1
Released on April 1st
No more linux, alienating all the massive render farms and super computer clusters

I'm guessing its a joke. A bad joke, but a joke nonetheless.


possibly.

[yellow]

Where the hell are you paying $400 more for a ps3? Even at launch they werent that much more than the 360.

I seem to remember a $799 price tag on the original PS3, as opposed to the $399 price tag of the 360?

But dont let that sway you, theres no discernible benefit to blu-ray, right?

Not for me. I have no interest in re-purchasing the BluRay versions of all my DVDs. As a site note, I'm less concerned with the visuals of FFXIII and more concerned with the ridiculous story. How I long for the old days of FFVII and being able to build my weapons through experience and plug-ins. I hate grinding for components.

I find it odd that you continue to berate me for my choices and my opinions. :rolleyes:

[e²Studios]

I seem to remember a $799 price tag on the original PS3, as opposed to the $399 price tag of the 360?

You remember wrong then. It was $499 for the 20GB and $599 for the 60GB :)

[Sambo110]

The worst thing about the 360 is all the Dashboard items look like crap in 1080P. The includes the actual main 360 menu, the friend log on popup etc. in game menus look fine, graphics look fine, but every time I see the menu I have to sit back further as it is so crappy, it's like 480P graphics or something. Then I go onto my PS3 and it is so crystal clear.

[TheSpaz]

^ LOL He misses the point all the time.

We don't care if he prefer's one system or the other.

It's the illogical thought process and ignorance that he uses to make his decision that we are saying is flawed, not the actual outcome.

But frankly at this given stage I think it's apparent were talking to a brick wall. ;)

Thank god the majority of people on here are not as closed minded and ignorant, otherwise we would have one cr@ppy forum.




possibly.

I wasn't going for logic. I was going for "not an xBox". It was an easy decision.

[TheSpaz]

I seem to remember a $799 price tag on the original PS3, as opposed to the $399 price tag of the 360?



Not for me. I have no interest in re-purchasing the BluRay versions of all my DVDs. As a site note, I'm less concerned with the visuals of FFXIII and more concerned with the ridiculous story. How I long for the old days of FFVII and being able to build my weapons through experience and plug-ins. I hate grinding for components.

I find it odd that you continue to berate me for my choices and my opinions. :rolleyes:

Really? If you had a Blu-ray drive in a PS3, you would have to go out and buy the Blu-ray version of all your movies? Wow. What's wrong with having a Blu-ray drive? It's only going to be better than a DVD drive but it also plays DVDs.

Nobody said you have to go out and buy Blu-rays just because you have a Blu-ray drive.

[MacRumorUser]

The worst thing about the 360 is all the Dashboard items look like crap in 1080P. The includes the actual main 360 menu, the friend log on popup etc. in game menus look fine, graphics look fine, but every time I see the menu I have to sit back further as it is so crappy, it's like 480P graphics or something. Then I go onto my PS3 and it is so crystal clear.

I preferred the blades interface of old 360 than the new theme. There are elements I like such as the new Avatar, but that's about it.

I think the reason why those elements look lower res / scaled during gameplay is that it uses less resources ? possibly.

[NT1440]

I preferred the blades interface of old 360 than the new theme. There are elements I like such as the new Avatar, but that's about it.


+1

I mainly just use my xbox here at college for streaming from my mac, but I vastly preferred the blade interface over this 10 year old avatar crap.

[ViViDboarder]

+1

I mainly just use my xbox here at college for streaming from my mac, but I vastly preferred the blade interface over this 10 year old avatar crap.

I like the new Card interface actually. It looks much better on my HDTV than the old blades. To me they didn't look as good on a large screen.

[TheSpaz]

I like the new Card interface actually. It looks much better on my HDTV than the old blades. To me they didn't look as good on a large screen.

I think the new card interface on the xBox looks childish.

I like the pro look and feel of the XMB on the PS3.

[NT1440]

I think the new card interface on the xBox looks childish.

I like the pro look and feel of the XMB on the PS3.

See I vastly prefer the Xbox interface to the Playstation one which I feel is lifeless and frankly annoying to navigate.

[TheSpaz]

See I vastly prefer the Xbox interface to the Playstation one which I feel is lifeless and frankly annoying to navigate.

What's so hard about navigating the XMB? Is it because you've gotten used to the xBox navigation because there is nothing wrong with navigating the XMB and it has never annoyed me.

[NT1440]

What's so hard about navigating the XMB? Is it because you've gotten used to the xBox navigation because there is nothing wrong with navigating the XMB and it has never annoyed me.

Whoa there champ, no need to get defensive, I'm just annoyed by navigation on the PS3.

And its not a matter of getting used to, I can use any console with relative ease, I just don't like anything about the look and feel of the ps3.

[ViViDboarder]

I think the new card interface on the xBox looks childish.

I like the pro look and feel of the XMB on the PS3.

Pro? I don't know about that. I don't like the menu system of the XMB. It's a media machine. I want it simple. I want the easiest tasks to do to be Play Game, Play DVD, Play Netflix. I don't really care about anything else.

Most of the items in the PS3 menu are settings. Things that I set and forget. I'm not constantly tweaking my PS3 because my TV and stereo don't change that often.

I don't really care about the look of the systems menus, but I've found it's really easy to do everything I need to on the Xbox menu. Once I start up (A) is play game/DVD. (Right)(Right)(A) Play movies over network. And (Up)(Up)(Right)(A) Play Netflix. I guess I'm just used to the Xbox interface. :)

I think the new card interface on the xBox looks childish.

I like the pro look and feel of the XMB on the PS3.

What's so childish the Xbox interface? Is it because you've gotten used to the XMB look because there is nothing wrong with the Xbox interface and it has never annoyed me.

See what I did there? ;) Opinions are like... well you know. :)

[SevenInchScrew]

I do not know what PixelJunk is.
Not surprising.
I've never been a Nintendo fan (too bad too because I'm missing out on some great titles :rolleyes:)
If you ever get over this crippling case of fanboyitis, you should really check them out. They make fun games.

Keep in mind too that blu-ray vs dvd isnt just about swapping, just look at FF13. The ps3 version is all uncompressed and gorgeous whereas the 360 version had to have the life compressed out of it just to fit on 3 dvds.
The main reason why FFXIII looks worse on 360 is the same reason why (insert multiplatform game here) doesn't look leaps and bounds better on PS3: the developers. There is no question that 50GB on one disc is great to have available, but if the developers are going to do a poor job utilizing that space (or lack of), it really doesn't mean much.
I'm guessing its a joke. A bad joke, but a joke nonetheless.
possibly.
Here it is straight from the horse's mouth. Not a joke....
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/
I preferred the blades interface of old 360 than the new theme. There are elements I like such as the new Avatar, but that's about it.
I've never really put much thought into ANY console's dashboard. I see it for about 2 minutes a day, so it really doesn't matter. The PS3 has the best user interface currently, in my opinion, but it goes largely unnoticed.

[ViViDboarder]

Here it is straight from the horse's mouth. Not a joke....
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/

Woah!!! That's a little crazy! Although, this isn't going to really effect people using PS3 clusters and such because they have no reason to upgrade... They can keep using their PS3 in OtherOS. My guess is this is to prevent blueray ripping. Something usually done by people who also want to play games on their PS3's. :)

[Sambo110]

I love the PS3 menu. All my downloaded games are there, I don't have to go into two separate menus to find them, and the animated themes are awesome. The 360 has too many sub menus to get to everything.

[SevenInchScrew]

The 360 has too many sub menus to get to everything.
I can't think of anything I use on a daily basis on the 360 (or the PS3, for that matter) that I couldn't get to with 4-5 button presses. But hey, to each their own.

[TheSpaz]

Pro? I don't know about that. I don't like the menu system of the XMB. It's a media machine. I want it simple. I want the easiest tasks to do to be Play Game, Play DVD, Play Netflix. I don't really care about anything else.

Most of the items in the PS3 menu are settings. Things that I set and forget. I'm not constantly tweaking my PS3 because my TV and stereo don't change that often.

I don't really care about the look of the systems menus, but I've found it's really easy to do everything I need to on the Xbox menu. Once I start up (A) is play game/DVD. (Right)(Right)(A) Play movies over network. And (Up)(Up)(Right)(A) Play Netflix. I guess I'm just used to the Xbox interface. :)




See what I did there? ;) Opinions are like... well you know. :)

Yeah, I know what opinions are. That's why I was asking what was wrong with the XMB.

To me, the XBox menu looks like a cartoon, but the PS3 menus are stylish and more professional looking (muted colors, crisp icons, not cartoony). I noticed the XBox menus are bright annoying green with bubbly card shaped things with huge text and cartoony looking pictures.

Of course, that's just observations by me. I still fail to see what is so bad about the PS3 menus. It's not hard to navigate for me. It's quite simple and original.

By the way... I actually prefer the PS3 navigation over the Apple TV navigation too. Love the responsiveness of the menus.


Also, once I start up the PS3, it's on the game menu. All I have to do is press (x) to play the game. If I wanna watch a movie, I just put one in (starts automatically) or I can press (left) once and hit (x).

And what do you mean that most of the menus are settings? What are you talking about? There's only 1 settings menu and all you have to do is set them once and forget about them. Then you can browse to your media. It's in very easy reach as far as I'm concerned. I still don't see how the PS3 navigation is any worse than the XBox.

Also, I never said that the XBox was hard to navigate... I just don't like how it looks.

[SevenInchScrew]

I noticed the XBox menus are bright annoying green...
You can change colors and themes on the 360. You realize this, right?
...with bubbly card shaped things with huge text and cartoony looking pictures.
PRO™
http://scrawlfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ps3-xmb-consideration.jpg

[NoSmokingBandit]

The main reason why FFXIII looks worse on 360 is the same reason why (insert multiplatform game here) doesn't look leaps and bounds better on PS3: the developers. There is no question that 50GB on one disc is great to have available, but if the developers are going to do a poor job utilizing that space (or lack of), it really doesn't mean much.

Lets look at this a little closer. We are talking about Square Enix. Arguably the most talented RPG developer since the dawn of video games. Sure, the in-game graphics probably look worse on the 360 because they built the engine for the ps3 then ported it over, but that has nothing to do with disc size. A poorly ported engine doesnt take up more or less room (any significant amount) than a well coded engine.
The problem with the 360 is that the DVD cant hold all the pre-rendered cutscenes, and there are quite a few of those. No matter how talented a developer is theres just no compression algorithm that can cram a blu-ray onto a dvd and make it look pretty. The reason the 360 version of FF13 looks worse is simply because there wasnt enough space.

Here it is straight from the horse's mouth. Not a joke....
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/

Sony has been known to pull (terrible) april fools jokes. They have no sense of humor. No american sense of humor, maybe the japs find them funny, idk. We'll find out in a few days i suppose.

I've never really put much thought into ANY console's dashboard. I see it for about 2 minutes a day, so it really doesn't matter. The PS3 has the best user interface currently, in my opinion, but it goes largely unnoticed.
This. I dont dick around my Wii or PS3's interface, i get right to whatever game i want to play. Every console i've used seems to get the job done. Sony likes their minimalism, MS likes to be flashy, and Nintendo is all about being simple and smooth. All get me to my game.
If i had to choose i'd vote for the Wii's interface. Its simple, but its just so much fun to use.

[TheSpaz]

You can change colors and themes on the 360. You realize this, right?

PRO™
http://scrawlfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ps3-xmb-consideration.jpg

I can't help what people make for their avatars. By the way... how'd you get their stats to show up like that? I don't have mine like that.

Oh, and no, I don't spend enough time with the xBox to know about the color changing options. I was just going by what I've seen on every xBox I've ever seen (stores and other people's houses). They've always left it green. That's just one of the things I don't like about the UI.

By the way... nobody mentioned that PS3 will be a little cheaper in the long run because you can buy all your games USED. Blu-rays do not scratch easily. I've never seen a scratched used game and I've already purchased a ton of used games for PS3. It's a well known fact that Blu-ray is a lot more durable than DVD. That's just another win for the PS3.

[ViViDboarder]

I can't help what people make for their avatars. By the way... how'd you get their stats to show up like that? I don't have mine like that.

Oh, and no, I don't spend enough time with the xBox to know about the color changing options. I was just going by what I've seen on every xBox I've ever seen (stores and other people's houses). They've always left it green. That's just one of the things I don't like about the UI.

By the way... nobody mentioned that PS3 will be a little cheaper in the long run because you can buy all your games USED. Blu-rays do not scratch easily. I've never seen a scratched used game and I've already purchased a ton of used games for PS3. It's a well known fact that Blu-ray is a lot more durable than DVD. That's just another win for the PS3.

+1 about the stats.

I just remembered something I don't like about the Playstation menu. What's with the PSN logo being out of uniform with the rest? That bugs the crap out of me. Overall, it's not bad. I just like the Xbox one better because I'm probably more used to it. Also, it's far more visual than the PS3 menu which is all text. I find that because of this it lends itself to quick navigation. I am a mostly visual person so I like it.

And as for used games... I've never had an issue finding used Xbox games. I've also never had a problem with scratching any game disks or DVDs. Except when my friend kicked over my Xbox while playing Halo 3 and destroyed it, but that's hardly the disks fault. Don't worry, he gave me his copy.

[SevenInchScrew]

Lets look at this a little closer...
No, I get why the game looks worse on 360 from a technical standpoint. But as you said, they are one of the biggest RPG developers, and using multiple discs is not something unusual for this genre. Lost Odyssey, which came out 2 years ago for 360, was on 4 discs. Given that the fairly linear progression FFXIII has, I personally see no reason why they couldn't have used 4 discs as well. Using 4 would give them ~28GB to work with. With it being said that the BD version of XIII uses ~37GB, only having to compress the game down ~9GB instead of ~16GB is a big deal.

I don't want this to come across like I'm saying all developers are lazy. That isn't the case at all. They have limited budgets and limited time, so they do what they can. But, given that FFXIII has been in development for such a LOOONG time, the process to get it on 360 was practically an afterthought. So, they didn't just slack on it, but to say that the dev process was equal across the board, and the lower visuals are a perfect indicator of anything is a little off, in my opinion.

Like I said earlier, this is the same reason why every multiplatform game doesn't automatically look better on PS3. Given enough time and resources, they all should. With a more powerful system, and 50GB of space to work with, Modern Warfare 2 (or Madden, or Assassin's Creed, etc) on PS3 should absolutely blow the 360 version out of the water. The textures could be much higher res, the audio a higher bitrate, characters with much higher polygon counts.

But, in the real world, where development cycles are short, and budgets are even shorter, compromises have to be made. I agree that DVD is a limiting factor from a technical standpoint, but to use FFXIII as the cornerstone of that argument is sort of sidestepping the real issue, in my opinion.

[Dagless]

By the way... nobody mentioned that PS3 will be a little cheaper in the long run because you can buy all your games USED.

Haha what. All my second hand 360 games and trades have worked just fine thanks.

[SevenInchScrew]

I can't help what people make for their avatars .... Oh, and no, I don't spend enough time with the xBox to know about the color changing options. I was just going by what I've seen on every xBox I've ever seen (stores and other people's houses). They've always left it green. That's just one of the things I don't like about the UI.
Again, there is your problem. You haven't used the system to really understand what it can do, or how to fully use it, but yet you form your opinion in such a way that you act like you have. I think that is why MRU is getting after you. It is one thing to fully understand something, and not choose to use it. But, to just dismiss something, or claim things as fact when they aren't, without direct knowledge of it is where the "fanboy" tag comes from.
By the way... nobody mentioned that PS3 will be a little cheaper in the long run because you can buy all your games USED .... That's just another win for the PS3.
You can't buy 360 or Wii games used? News to me. That is quite the scoop you got there. Better submit that to all the news outlets.
By the way... how'd you get their stats to show up like that? I don't have mine like that.
+1 about the stats.
That isn't my image. I was simply using it to show that the PS3 isn't immune to "cartoony" looking stuff on their consoles.

[TheSpaz]

Haha what. All my second hand 360 games and trades have worked just fine thanks.

Good for you, but Blu-rays are more scratch resistant than DVDs. That is a fact. Blu-rays are protected better from scratches. Just because you never got a scratched DVD, doesn't mean that it's not something to think about.

Haha what.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CYuyJ4L7aE

[ViViDboarder]

Good for you, but Blu-rays are more scratch resistant than DVDs. That is a fact. Blu-rays are protected better from scratches. Just because you never got a scratched DVD, doesn't mean that it's not something to think about.

Haha what.

But that doesn't mean you're going to save money buying used games for a PS3 over a 360. That would only be the case if there was shortage of used 360 games, but that's not the case.

[Huntn]

I don't think you can characterize Mas users as going for any particular console. I chose the 360 mostly because of Halo, but there are a string of top quality games I'm enjoying.

[SevenInchScrew]

Good for you, but Blu-rays are more scratch resistant than DVDs. That is a fact. Blu-rays are protected better from scratches. Just because you never got a scratched DVD, doesn't mean that it's not something to think about.
I guess we can tell Gamestop and all those other places that they can get rid of all of their used PS2 inventory. Those games are probably unplayable now, especially now that Blu-ray is out. :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CYuyJ4L7aE
You are using THAT for your shining example of the fragility of DVD?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Consumer: Hey Honda, I poured maple syrup in my engine, but then in broke. Why does your stuff suck?
Honda: Where in the owner's manual does it say to use maple syrup instead of motor oil?
Consumer: It doesn't, but I thought I would do it and see what happened.
Honda: You are an idiot. ****

[Dagless]

^
I wonder if knowing the PS2 was the least tough console of last generation made him stop buying one?

Good for you, but Blu-rays are more scratch resistant than DVDs. That is a fact. Blu-rays are protected better from scratches. Just because you never got a scratched DVD, doesn't mean that it's not something to think about.

You're wrong because it's something I've never had to think about. Game shops test second hand discs, if they don't work they don't accept them.
In my 18 years of playing home consoles I've lost £0.00p from unplayable discs/media.

I guess you must really love GB, GBA and DS games since they can't be scratched, or does this logic of yours have boundaries there?

[NoSmokingBandit]

<latest large post>

Lets remember what started this whole debacle:
There's nothing so special about the PS3 and it's games that made it 100% necessary to put games on BlueRay discs and not on DVDs.
So no, there really is no reason they have to be on a blu-ray. Theres no reason we all couldnt still be swapping cds every hour of gameplay. But silly me, i like convenience and high-end electronics. Silly me, always wanting the best.

Sure, SE could have made FF13's cutscenes look the same on the 360, but it would probably take an extra 2-3 dvds to do it. Then you go from swapping every 15 hours to every 6-7 hours.

[SevenInchScrew]

<latest snarky post where you miss the point>
Just forget it. Move along. These aren't the droids you're looking for. :rolleyes:

[TheSpaz]

^
I wonder if knowing the PS2 was the least tough console of last generation made him stop buying one?

Hahahahahaha. I've owned the SAME PS2 for well over 8 years and it still works perfect. I've never had to have it repaired either. It's a very robust system. What makes it the least tough? Perhaps I got a special one?

Anyway, the BD durability is just one of the other perks about using PS3. Of course, if you take care of your games they won't scratch.

I realize that there's a lot of anti-Sony people here trying to turn everything I say into a negative, but I'm being anti-Microsoft so it's no different.

If I was a Microsoft fanboy, I would have a million bad things to say about the PS3 I'm sure.

[Dagless]

Hahahahahaha. I've owned the SAME PS2 for well over 8 years and it still works perfect. I've never had to have it repaired either. It's a very robust system. What makes it the least tough? Perhaps I got a special one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inXT-CPWoHk. The Gamecube was a very robust system, the Xbox was pretty well made too.

PS2's weren't that strong. We used to use one as a cheap and slightly portable DVD player for college presentations. It toppled off a 3' high desk onto a carpet which broke it, both my Xbox and GC have survived worse. Would be interesting to see some real, scientific tests on console durability.
Also did the PS2 laser class action lawsuit put you off buying a PS2, since you're using these kind of facts against Microsoft.

And no, most people here are neutral when it comes to consoles. I swear by my PSP and DS. My gaming PC handles the rest.

[TheSpaz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inXT-CPWoHk. The Gamecube was a very robust system, the Xbox was pretty well made too.

PS2's weren't that strong. We used to use one as a cheap and slightly portable DVD player for college presentations. It toppled off a 3' high desk onto a carpet which broke it, both my Xbox and GC have survived worse. Would be interesting to see some real, scientific tests on console durability.
Also did the PS2 laser class action lawsuit put you off buying a PS2, since you're using these kind of facts against Microsoft.

And no, most people here are neutral when it comes to consoles. I swear by my PSP and DS. My gaming PC handles the rest.

I had no idea that there were any problems with the PS2... mine has always worked flawlessly. I still have the original fat one.

Also, I didn't drop my PS2. I don't drop things that I care about.

[SevenInchScrew]

I realize that there's a lot of anti-Sony people here trying to turn everything I say into a negative...
I don't get the impression that anyone here is anti-Sony, as you claim, but I do think there are a lot of people here who are DEFINITELY anti-fanboy. I dislike a lot of things with Sony, MS and Nintendo, and all their respective hardware, but I'm not "Anti" any of them as a brand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inXT-CPWoHk
Ahhhh, memories. That GC startup sequence always made me smile.

Also, I didn't drop my PS2. I don't drop things that I care about.
Maybe not, but you did use a video of someone tipping some consoles over while in use as a claim of durability. Pick a side, can't have it both ways.

[MacRumorUser]

I realize that there's a lot of anti-Sony people here trying to turn everything I say into a negative, but I'm being anti-Microsoft so it's no different.

If I was a Microsoft fanboy, I would have a million bad things to say about the PS3 I'm sure.

This is where you are eronous in your thinking again. You assume if we disagree with what you are posting that we are anti-sony or anti-ps3 in some way and are as much fanboys as you are.

Some of us just disagree with you period.. None more so than I, and yet I'm not a fanatic of M$ or Sony or any other company. I own all consoles, I own both handhelds, I own multiple macs and yet I still don't hate the opposition. In fact I just don't wasting my time filling my head with hate.

There are many more posters here who have similar opinions and we have found fanboys tend to not last long here generally.

[ViViDboarder]

So I'm going to make an observation and take a shot at answering the thread title...

No. No correlation. :p

[SevenInchScrew]

So I'm going to make an observation and take a shot at answering the thread title...

No. No correlation. :p
YOU HATE SONY!!!

;)

[TheSpaz]

Maybe not, but you did use a video of someone tipping some consoles over while in use as a claim of durability. Pick a side, can't have it both ways.

It was just to show the durability of the disc. I'm sorry that the video shows the systems getting tipped over.

This is where you are eronous in your thinking again. You assume if we disagree with what you are posting that we are anti-sony or anti-ps3 in some way and are as much fanboys as you are.

Some of us just disagree with you period.. None more so than I, and yet I'm not a fanatic of M$ or Sony or any other company. I own all consoles, I own both handhelds, I own multiple macs and yet I still don't hate the opposition. In fact I just don't wasting my time filling my head with hate.

There are many more posters here who have similar opinions and we have found fanboys tend to not last long here generally.

I'm just as bad as you... I'll admit it. Everything I've ever said in this thread, you have the opposite view about.

Give me at least one good reason why I should've gotten an XBox. When I want something, there's really nothing you can do to stop me from getting what I want. When I don't want something... there's nothing you can do to get me to want it. Plain and simple. I don't want an XBox.

[NT1440]

Give me at least one good reason why I should've gotten an XBox. When I want something, there's really nothing you can do to stop me from getting what I want. When I don't want something... there's nothing you can do to get me to want it. Plain and simple. I don't want an XBox.

Who is telling you that you're supposed to get an Xbox? :rolleyes:

[TheSpaz]

Who is telling you that you're supposed to get an Xbox? :rolleyes:

Well, everyone doesn't like the fact that I simply don't like Microsoft. So I'm ignorant because I never gave the xBox a try. Technically I did though... I used someone else's and I didn't like the menus, the controller and the goofy looking hardware and I wanted an awesome Blu-ray player as well (I have a dedicated Blu-ray player, but I don't really like it very much).

[ViViDboarder]

Well, everyone doesn't like the fact that I simply don't like Microsoft. So I'm ignorant because I never gave the xBox a try. Technically I did though... I used someone else's and I didn't like the menus, the controller and the goofy looking hardware and I wanted an awesome Blu-ray player as well (I have a dedicated Blu-ray player, but I don't really like it very much).

Had that been your initial post rather than 2. I didn't wanna buy something that was made by Microsoft (because I'm a Mac guy). I know this one is weird but I couldn't stand the thought of having a Mac computer and a Microsoft game system. At least when I had Windows, I was still using my trusty Mac to do it. this may not have gotten so heated.

Not wanting to buy it because you didn't like the menu's or controllers or even just the physical appearance is much better than saying just because it's M$.

[NT1440]

Well, everyone doesn't like the fact that I simply don't like Microsoft. So I'm ignorant because I never gave the xBox a try. Technically I did though... I used someone else's and I didn't like the menus, the controller and the goofy looking hardware and I wanted an awesome Blu-ray player as well (I have a dedicated Blu-ray player, but I don't really like it very much).

What they don't like is your approach seemed to be based entirely on just not liking a company, and that anyone that disagrees with you is somehow calling you out or being confrontational.

[TheSpaz]

Had that been your initial post rather than this may not have gotten so heated.

Not wanting to buy it because you didn't like the menu's or controllers or even just the physical appearance is much better than saying just because it's M$.

Being a Microsoft product was a big part of it. I just can't stand the system all around.

The PS3 has that Mac-like quality that I crave.

[SevenInchScrew]

It was just to show the durability of the disc. I'm sorry that the video shows the systems getting tipped over.
But, whether it's the console being tipped over while powered on, or being dropped from 10ft, neither of those are how the console was intended to be used. It specifically says not to move them while in use, in both the 360 and PS3 manual. It is well documented that the 360 will do that to a disc if you move it while a disc is spinning. That is why they tell you not to do that. This isn't a DVD problem, nor a 360 problem. That is 100% user error, nothing more.

[ViViDboarder]

Being a Microsoft product was a big part of it. I just can't stand the system all around.

The PS3 has that Mac-like quality that I crave.

I find the most Mac-like console to be the Wii. Infact, as far as Computer - Console comparisons go, I see this:

Wii - Mac (Simple, small, elegantly designed, accessible, anyone can use it)
Xbox - Windows (Microsoft... Plays nice with basically only Microsoft products, menus are simplified, but not as simple as the Wii)
PS3 - Linux (Original was kind of huge, used to be able to run Linux, very powerful but takes some work, mostly text oriented menus)

Just my thoughts. :)

[MacRumorUser]

So I'm ignorant because I never gave the xBox a try.

No, your just plain ignorant full stop it seems.

Your so blinded by ignorance that you still are unable to read posts at face value and actually understand what is being written.

Clearly everyone else can follow my posts and understand and comprehend what I am saying and yet with you it goes straight over you head.

:rolleyes:

[TheSpaz]

No, your just plain ignorant full stop it seems.

Your so blinded by ignorance that you still are unable to read posts at face value and actually understand what is being written.

Clearly everyone else can follow my posts and understand and comprehend what I am saying and yet with you it goes straight over you head.

:rolleyes:

No, you're just trying to get me to argue with you.

I'm a Mac user that doesn't support Microsoft. That's pretty typical for a Mac user actually. Well, I'm not sure how typical it is anymore, but when I was growing up, that was the way things went in the Mac world.

I'm not open minded towards Microsoft.

I also like woman and I already know that I won't like men, but I haven't tried them to find out. I like Apple and I don't like Microsoft and I'm not about to try.

[SevenInchScrew]

I'm a Mac user that doesn't support Microsoft. That's pretty typical for a Mac user actually. Well, I'm not sure how typical it is anymore...
Really? Even after EVERYTHING in this thread, you still have doubts about this? Yikes.

[Dagless]

I also like woman and I already know that I won't like men, but I haven't tried them to find out. I like Apple and I don't like Microsoft and I'm not about to try.

Earlier in this thread you also made a sports team comparison, saying something along the lines of not supporting 2 teams.
I don't understand these analogies. First off competing teams offer nothing but the game as comparison, these hardware companies offer a multitude of services. The whole reference is completely unrelated.
As for comparing brand loyalty to sexuality? Oh my. If electronics and sexuality are this closely tied to you no wonder you feel so passionately about this topic.

Really? Even after EVERYTHING in this thread, you still have doubts about this? Yikes.

My thoughts exactly.


I'm just as bad as you... I'll admit it. Everything I've ever said in this thread, you have the opposite view about.

The only ignorance MRU has is towards ignorance itself. Yours very much isn't.


Wii - Mac (Simple, small, elegantly designed, accessible, anyone can use it)
Xbox - Windows (Microsoft... Plays nice with basically only Microsoft products, menus are simplified, but not as simple as the Wii)
PS3 - Linux (Original was kind of huge, used to be able to run Linux, very powerful but takes some work, mostly text oriented menus)


It's even more similar given how the Wii's menu was also used on the iPhone/iPod! Couldn't agree more about them comparisons. Even down to both Nintendo and Macs being (currently) underpowered ;).

[Norskman]

I'm a long time gamer who used to play mostly on a PC platform. I've moved more over to console for casual gaming on a bigger screen and it's cut my gaming cost quite considerably when I think about how much money I used to spend on computer upgrades every year. *shudder*

I have all 3 consoles. Not because I have to have them all, it just worked out that way. Let me first say that the Nintendo Wii was purchased primarily for my daughter and she does play it from time to time, as do we, but it sits unused more than it should.

I have both an XBox 360 Elite and the older 80GB Playstation 3. I love both of them for different reasons and got them for different reasons.

I also have a PS2 sitting in a cupboard somewhere and never owned the original XBox.

The XBox 360 was purchased first. I waited until the RRoD issues were solved, and when an Elite came out that was suppose to be free of these issues I jumped on it. I love gaming on this device. The XBox Live! feature is by far the best online offering out there. Any cross platform game I want to play I buy for the XBox 360 over the PS3. I don't mind paying the annual fee to keep Gold status and it's only gotten better over time.

We also do our Netflix streaming using the XBox 360 over the PS3. That might change once we don't need to load the Netflix disk on the PS3 and they tweak the UI to be less laggy, but for now we use the Netflix feature on the XBox.

The Playstation 3 was bought back when Blu-Ray players were $4-500 for a decent one. At the time the PS3 was by far the cheapest, most robust offer to get into Blu-Ray, and it's still our primary Blu-Ray/DVD player in the family room. The few games I own for the PS3 are all unique titles to the platform, like Little Big Planet, Uncharted, Resistance 2, God of War 3 etc.

I don't mind buying the games that are only released for the PS3, and they look good! I mostly prefer the XBox 360 controller over the PS3 for gaming, but the PS3 controller is familiar from my PS2 days, so I don't really mind it. It's just a preference between the two, if I had to choose.

Online wise it looks like Sony is still playing catch up to Microsoft's XBL service. Yeah, PSN is free, but it's not all that great. There's absolutely no community feel to it, it's just there. They add a feature and move on.

Now the PS3 has some cool features the XBox does not have, like replaceable hard drives, using your blue tooth cellphone headset for chat, installing *nix for nerdage, and probably a few more I'm missing.

Above all else, the PS3 is quiet. The XBox is far from quiet. It's annoying how loud the XBox is compared to the PS3. The PS3 also looks much nicer sitting in the TV bench. I have the piano black model which matches the trim of my TV. The slim version looks like it has a finish close to the XBox 360 Elite.

I will continue to use both consoles the same way I do now. Most of what I can't do on one of them, I can do with the other, like opening certain file types, or streaming media.

I have all bases covered. This is not Sony vs. Microsoft, or PC vs. Mac. Just get whatever console(s) you want and have fun playing with them.

[SevenInchScrew]

...like replaceable hard drives
The 360 has replaceable hard drives, but they have to be the 360-specific ones. Though the new USB drive feature slightly lessens the cost for people that need more storage. But yes, as I'm sure everyone would agree, being able to use ANY 2.5" hard drive in the PS3 if you want to upgrade is very handy.
...installing *nix for nerdage
That will only be a feature for the next 3 hours or so, because at some point on April 1st, there will be a new firmware update for the PS3 that specifically removes this feature. And no, this is not an April Fools day joke...

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/
Above all else, the PS3 is quiet. The XBox is far from quiet. It's annoying how loud the XBox is compared to the PS3.
I'm actually beginning to think my PS3 is dying. It is MUCH louder than my 360. The problem with the 360 is the DVD drive. The console itself is not really that loud, but when the drive spins up, that is when it gets loud. But now that we're able to install games to the HDD, I don't have to listen to the crazy whirring of the DVD drive. With only fan noise to deal with, it is very quiet.

But my PS3 is very loud, in exactly the opposite way from a 360. If I play a game, or watch a movie for a couple hours, when I go back to the dashboard, you can hear the fans spinning like crazy. The air being spit out the back isn't really hot, so I'm not really worried about heat, but I think the fan might be dying. Does anyone else have anything similar?

[Norskman]

The 360 has replaceable hard drives, but they have to be the 360-specific ones. Though the new USB drive feature slightly lessens the cost for people that need more storage. But yes, as I'm sure everyone would agree, being able to use ANY 2.5" hard drive in the PS3 if you want to upgrade is very handy.

Thanks or clarifying. Yes, you can buy replacement HD's for the XBox, as long as it's the MS' XBox hd's. I think the 250GB is running about $120 on Amazon right now, or I can buy a 500GB replacement HD for the PS3 from Newegg for $75.

That will only be a feature for the next 3 hours or so, because at some point on April 1st, there will be a new firmware update for the PS3 that specifically removes this feature. And no, this is not an April Fools day joke...

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/

Yeah, not quite convinced on this one. Could easily be an April Fools joke gone wrong, but over 4,000 people have replied to that announcement, most of which are not happy. Not sure this is a smart move by Sony. They should have found a better way to do it.

I'm actually beginning to think my PS3 is dying. It is MUCH louder than my 360. The problem with the 360 is the DVD drive. The console itself is not really that loud, but when the drive spins up, that is when it gets loud. But now that we're able to install games to the HDD, I don't have to listen to the crazy whirring of the DVD drive. With only fan noise to deal with, it is very quiet.

But my PS3 is very loud, in exactly the opposite way from a 360. If I play a game, or watch a movie for a couple hours, when I go back to the dashboard, you can hear the fans spinning like crazy. The air being spit out the back isn't really hot, so I'm not really worried about heat, but I think the fan might be dying. Does anyone else have anything similar?

Yeah this doesn't sound right. My PS3 is super quiet, and it sits in a TV stand with no more than 3-4 inches above it for air flow. The 360 is considerably louder. The install game to HD has helped, and it is quieter without the DVD spinning, but the fans are still pretty darn loud compared to the PS3.

Are you outside warranty for fan replacement? If you are you could always open it up and find replacement fans online. Here's the dis-assembly tutorial for the older, piano black version.

http://www.llamma.com/PS3/repair/PS3_disassembly_tutorial.htm

[Norskman]

eBay has 19-blade replacement fans for cheap. The stock is 15-blade. 19-blade is a little quieter from what I'm reading online.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300388712165&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=M*F%3F&GUID=76a0f8df1270a02652d7a5c7ffdb2519&itemid=300388712165&ff4=263602_263622

[SevenInchScrew]

Yeah, not quite convinced on this one. Could easily be an April Fools joke gone wrong...
Update is now out, and does exactly what they were saying, sadly. Not that I ever used the feature, but it would seem many people did. Oh well.
Yeah this doesn't sound right. My PS3 is super quiet, and it sits in a TV stand with no more than 3-4 inches above it for air flow.
Yea, that is what makes me think this is a fan problem, because my PS3 sits out in the wide open, with nothing but free air around it. And when you first turn it on, it is just like you say, dead silent. But, its almost like the fan doesn't quite push as much air as it is supposed to, so when the temps start to rise over time, it has to work that much harder to keep up.

Like I said before, the air coming out the back is not hot, or even warm really, and the thing has never locked up or anything. I mean, aside from the noise, the thing runs almost perfect. But I always hear people talk about how quiet theirs are, and mine is far from it when it has been on for more than 30 mins or so.
Are you outside warranty for fan replacement? If you are you could always open it up and find replacement fans online.
I haven't looked into it, but I'm going to assume that the warranty is for 1 year, correct? If so, then yes I am past my time. Though, until this turns from minor annoyance into a full-fledged problem, I'll leave it sealed up. Eventually I'll probably just get a new Slim, and move this one to my bedroom for just watching movies, so it really isn't that big of a problem. But hey, thanks for the input and the info on that other fan. If I'm ever feeling adventurous, I might look into that. :D

[ViViDboarder]

You all see this?

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/04/otheros-supported-on-321oo.html

Wow... That guy gets around! ;)

[DoFoT9]

You all see this?

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/04/otheros-supported-on-321oo.html

Wow... That guy gets around! ;)

hmmmmmmm. very interesting. you might have just saved me $125!!

[NoSmokingBandit]

For those who use linux on their ps3, may i ask what you do with it? From everything i've seen, ps3 linux is pretty gimped and runs about as smooth as any 10 year old pc.

[DoFoT9]

For those who use linux on their ps3, may i ask what you do with it? From everything i've seen, ps3 linux is pretty gimped and runs about as smooth as any 10 year old pc.

only because the CPU used by linux is the 400mhz CPU - so yea, 10 years old :p

i rip BDs :D dont need speed for that!

[NoSmokingBandit]

Lol, thats true. How long does it take you to rip a blu-ray? I suppose the key factor is the disc drive speed.

[DoFoT9]

Lol, thats true. How long does it take you to rip a blu-ray? I suppose the key factor is the disc drive speed.

yes correct, mine is a 3x drive, which is roughly 9MB/s over the network (would be the same if i did it directly to a drive). takes roughly 40mins IIRC

[Bushiboo]

Have many of you chosen NOT to upgrade to 3.21?

[DoFoT9]

Have many of you chosen NOT to upgrade to 3.21?

well, i did! until my brother went on and upgraded it. boy was i angry

[TheSpaz]

Have many of you chosen NOT to upgrade to 3.21?

If you don't upgrade, you can't play online.

[ViViDboarder]

If you don't upgrade, you can't play online.

Unless you use this work around. :)
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2010/04/05/how-to-access-psn-bypassing-ps3-firmware-3-21-upgrade-for-otheros/

I have a slim so I never had OtherOS. I'm still holding off. GeoHotz new fix could possibly give OtherOS to Slims. I am eagerly awaiting it being tested. :)

[Taustin Powers]

I installed the update without even thinking about it. I tried Linux on PS3 about a year ago, and it was useless for my needs. Just too sluggish.

It really sucks for people who were actually using it though. I know I would be pissed.

As a general move by Sony, I find it very questionable to remove features that were a standard component of your product when you bought it. It's like buying a car with air conditioning, and later the manufacturer says "We decided the car would be safer without, so we will take out the AC next time your car needs repair". It just doesn't sound right. ;)

[wttheninja]

360 outbeats the ps3 anyday. Personally I love the 360, It has alot of fun games, plus I do not need to charge my remote every few hours.

[NoSmokingBandit]

I only recharge my DS3 about once every 15 days or so when i use it regularly. My old sixaxis holds a charge about the same.

[apolloa]

I got a 360 once, I had some money towards it for my birthday. I was just getting into consoles and I can't even remember if I had my first Mac then? Anyway, I weighed the pros and cons of both systems and decided the 360 was for me.
I thought it was great, loved it, until it broke down after about 2 months. Started getting the 3 red lights. So I went and swapped it for another, this one was DOA, out of the box it was faulty, think it kept rebooting and RODing.
So onto my third, that was ok and let me play some great games for about 9 or so months I think but then it started to scratch the DVD's and made funny noises.

So I had enough, traded it in for a 40GB PS3 whilst it was still working. Haven't looked back really and then last year I traded for a PS3 slim, got the rest of money for that for Christmas so I made myself wait from Sept till Christmas Day before I opened it!!! God that was hard!!!

Anyway, I loved the 360 but i just gave up on it because of it's reliability issues but having now played GOW3, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 I haven't looked back once. So no, the fact MS made it didn't bare on my decision.

Tell you the irony though, I paid for Xbox Live gold and never used it really, yet I got COD4 and was online with the PS3 instantly. But I now have friends that have PS3's too and that makes the difference, what system you friends have.

[Huntn]

Regarding the thread title, the answer is "no".

[DoFoT9]

Wirelessly posted (nokia e63: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.2; U; Series60/3.1 NokiaE63-1/100.21.110; Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

huntn I don't agree

[Dagless]

Regarding the thread title, the answer is "no".

I agree.

[partyBoy]

"Real mac users" use ps3 for gaming...we are anti-xbox;)

[Kieranic]

I got an Xbox 360 just over a month ago and honestly, I love it :p
To me, it's the only thing apart from Windows that Microsoft do right (Even then Windows still f***s up a lot).

I wouldn't consider a PS3 or swap my Xbox for a PS3, I just love my Xbox too much :)

The graphics card is also more powerful (even if only its slightly more powerful).

[SevenInchScrew]

To me, it's the only thing apart from Windows that Microsoft do right (Even then Windows still f***s up a lot).
They make the best computer mice as well, in my opinion.

[NoSmokingBandit]

The graphics card is also more powerful (even if only its slightly more powerful).

That doesnt mean a thing when the Cell is a ton more powerful than the 360's cpu. Naughty Dog said they used the Cell quite a bit for things that would normally be relegated to a gpu in Uncharted 2. I recall reading that Santa Monica used the Cell to run AA on GoW3, which is pretty impressive, imo.

[Reventon]

I have a PS3. I got it because I heard of all the troubles regarding the XBox with the RRODs and scratching the discs. I also felt it was a better value seeing that it's also plays CDs, DVDs and BlueRays. But the biggest reason I got it is of course Gran Tourismo 5, which will blow Forza right out of the water.

[DoFoT9]

I have a PS3. I got it because I heard of all the troubles regarding the XBox with the RRODs and scratching the discs. I also felt it was a better value seeing that it's also plays CDs, DVDs and BlueRays. But the biggest reason I got it is of course Gran Tourismo 5, which will blow Forza right out of the water.

OMG i saw the demo yesterday for it.. sooooo amazing! so happy i bought my PS3 :D

[NoSmokingBandit]

Every time i see new footage of GT5 i get all excited like a little kid all over again.

Theres 2 new vids on GT that show damage and rollovers then just normal racing. Both videos are just absolutely stunning.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/action-trailer-gran-turismo/701521

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/tour-trailer-gran-turismo/701523

[JayMysterio]

Regarding the thread title, the answer is "no".

+1

Live is the deal breaker for me. I just prefer Live's implementation over PSN.

[SevenInchScrew]

Every time i see new footage of GT5 i get all excited like a little kid all over again.
I'm almost the exact opposite at this point. When GT5 ships, it will have been more than 6 years from the last game. By taking that long, they are setting the bar VERY high. It will be interesting to see just how fun the game is, because the last few have been progressively less and less fun to me. But, this game is basically the only thing I'm keeping my PS3 around for any more, so we'll see what comes of it.

[DoFoT9]

I'm almost the exact opposite at this point. When GT5 ships, it will have been more than 6 years from the last game. By taking that long, they are setting the bar VERY high. It will be interesting to see just how fun the game is, because the last few have been progressively less and less fun to me. But, this game is basically the only thing I'm keeping my PS3 around for any more, so we'll see what comes of it.

here's to hoping! *fingers crossed*

[NoSmokingBandit]

The more i hear (and see) about gt5 i feel like it is going to be worth the long agonizing wait. Kart racing, track editor, 950+ cars, etc... I should say i'm cautiously optimistic. I feel like GT5 is going to make up for things GT has been missing for years (damage, namely) but if its not done perfectly its going to feel like a slap in the face.

[Reventon]

Oh yeah.. I'm cautiously optimistic as well regarding FT 5, but the more I look at the trailers, the better it looks. After six years of waiting, I do hope it's as epic to play as the trailers lead you to believe.

[SevenInchScrew]

...Kart racing, track editor
Those things are just speculation. It was announced a month back or so, but it was a Sony Europe exec that said it, not someone from Polyphony, and many people are thinking he was incorrect. I mean, those things would be fun, but we won't know until GamesCom if they are officially in. That is when PD is going to unveil the full feature list, so we'll see.
I feel like GT5 is going to make up for things GT has been missing for years (damage, namely)
Damage will be interesting. So far they have been very skimpy on the details as to what the damage will actually be. In those demos at CES earlier this year, they showed the cars getting very little body panel damage, but the parts would eventually fall off. That looked weird. And recent videos and screens show the panels getting more deformation than before, but the panels didn't look to be coming off. It will be interesting to see how they implement it. And with the fact that they've said that only 200 of the 1000 cars will be fully-modeled GT5 spec cars, the rest being up-rezed GT4 cars, those other 800 might not even get damage at all.

Playing the last couple Forzas with damage, I have to say it really isn't a big thing to me. I mean, yes, it does add to the realism, but it is more of just an added feature point to put on the box. Even with the decently high power of the current consoles, geometry deformation is a hard thing to implement. And as I've said for a long time, I want a fun game first, the rest of the stuff is just added bonus. But, if damage is added and doesn't work well, or just looks silly, it can be a big detractor. I hope it works well in GT, because it is a pretty meaningless thing in Forza, to me at least.

[Hellhammer]

And with the fact that they've said that only 200 of the 1000 cars will be fully-modeled GT5 spec cars, the rest being up-rezed GT4 cars, those other 800 might not even get damage at all.

Even 200 is ridiculous amount of cars and that's only the new cars, there are 800 old cars. Forza 3 has total of 400 cars IIRC. When Forza 3 came, I remember reading an interview where a worker of Turn 10 Studios said that modeling one car to Forza 3 took about a month for one man to do (IIRC).

I haven't played Forzas that much but have heard a lot good of them but I still prefer Gran Turismo, maybe because I've played it since the first one in late 90's. Already pre-ordered my GT5, can't wait for it

[SevenInchScrew]

Even 200 is ridiculous amount of cars and that's only the new cars, there are 800 old cars.
Yea, but doesn't it make you wonder what the hell they've been doing for 6 years? One of the main features that all of these 200 new cars has is a full interior. Now granted, they aren't as minutely detailed, but EVERY one of the cars in Forza 3 has a full interior. I personally think the devs at PD, Kaz specifically, are just too focused on making the "Perfect" game, rather than making a "Very Good" game and getting it out there to the fans.
Forza 3 has total of 400 cars IIRC.
They are actually over 500 now, when you add in DLC cars that they have added every month from launch last year. The problem with that, just as it will be for GT5 and its 1000 cars, I'm only going to use a handful of them so a huge number like that is filled with a LOT of fluff.
I haven't played Forzas that much but have heard a lot good of them but I still prefer Gran Turismo, maybe because I've played it since the first one in late 90's. Already pre-ordered my GT5, can't wait for it
I used to love the GT series. The first one launched on my birthday, and I played the crap out of it. But, as I've said a bunch of times, the series seems to be shifting from an amazing racing game, to somewhat more of an interactive automotive encyclopedia. After GT2, they just became less and less fun for me, and vice-versa, the Forza series has become a fantastic racing game.

The GT series is undoubtedly the better looking game. But to me, looks aren't what make a racing game fun. It is how well it presents the car and track to you, and how well it makes the interaction between those two things feel. The physics and sound, in particular, are just spectacular in Forza 3, in my opinion. You could put me in a car, not tell me what it is, and let me race it, and because of the great way it coveys those things to the driver, I could probably guess the car without much difficulty.

I do have very high hopes for GT5. As I said, it is the sole reason for me keeping my PS3 at this point. But, I'm a huge car fan, and I love racing, so this game will almost certainly be purchased. But I just fear that by taking so long to come out, and setting expectations SO high, it will probably feel underwhelming when it finally arrives. But I echo the sentiment by DoFoT9 earlier....

*Fingers Crossed*

[NoSmokingBandit]

And with the fact that they've said that only 200 of the 1000 cars will be fully-modeled GT5 spec cars, the rest being up-rezed GT4 cars, those other 800 might not even get damage at all.


From what i've read, all the cars were built for GT5, not just hi-poly versions of GT4 cars. Which would make sense because adding damage would require completely new models anyway. The 200 premium cars have the tiniest details reproduced. The ~800 arent gimped or anything, the 200 are just that much better. People seem to have inferred that 800 cars will be junk while only 200 of them will actually be HD and stuff, which isnt really what they said.

I agree about damage though, i dont care if its there or not. I very rarely tap another car when racing, so i wont notice if damage exists or not. Realistic damage is near impossible anyway. Simply brushing up against a wall at a low speed can possibly take you out of a race, and most video games show cars crashing into walls at 120+mi/hr and they drive away.

[DoFoT9]

The GT series is undoubtedly the better looking game. But to me, looks aren't what make a racing game fun. It is how well it presents the car and track to you, and how well it makes the interaction between those two things feel. The physics and sound, in particular, are just spectacular in Forza 3, in my opinion.
it does look better, but i sure hope that they havent solely focused on graphics alone - as the biggest thing for me is interaction between the game and real world physics (of course). id much rather have the game look worse and handle better. GT3 A-Spec was decent IMO for that, compared to GT4 anyway.

they most certainly have waited a long time - i guess they got lost along the way. i hope they found their tracks again (ignore the pun).

[Hellhammer]

it does look better, but i sure hope that they havent solely focused on graphics alone - as the biggest thing for me is interaction between the game and real world physics (of course). id much rather have the game look worse and handle better. GT3 A-Spec was decent IMO for that, compared to GT4 anyway.

they most certainly have waited a long time - i guess they got lost along the way. i hope they found their tracks again (ignore the pun).

I'm afraid that they have concentrated on details too much and forgotten the most important thing, the actual driving system and gaming experience. I couldn't care less are there 100 or 1000 cars, I end up using few of those anyway. Yeah, it's nice to have them though but I think it's not that important. Graphics are never on my top list, I still play GT 1&2 by time to time because they just rock and there are not too many details, the driving system is just enormous. I find many PS1 games being better than new ones because it's not a competition of graphics and just recycling the same ideas.

If this game fails, it's the end of GT series. This has cost a fortune to make and took over a half decade.

[DoFoT9]

I'm afraid that they have concentrated on details too much and forgotten the most important thing, the actual driving system and gaming experience. I couldn't care less are there 100 or 1000 cars, I end up using few of those anyway. Yeah, it's nice to have them though but I think it's not that important. Graphics are never on my top list, I still play GT 1&2 by time to time because they just rock and there are not too many details, the driving system is just enormous. I find many PS1 games being better than new ones because it's not a competition of graphics and just recycling the same ideas.

If this game fails, it's the end of GT series. This has cost a fortune to make and took over a half decade.
i couldnt agree more with what you just said! what they need to do is spend 5 years on the physics engine - get that PERFECT, then release upgrades with cars whenever they get more. but DONT charge the end customers hehe. it would be good if they would just get the physics fine and worry about graphics later, what ever happened to logical producing :(

[SevenInchScrew]

From what i've read, all the cars were built for GT5, not just hi-poly versions of GT4 cars. Which would make sense because adding damage would require completely new models anyway. The 200 premium cars have the tiniest details reproduced. The ~800 arent gimped or anything, the 200 are just that much better. People seem to have inferred that 800 cars will be junk while only 200 of them will actually be HD and stuff, which isnt really what they said.
No, the 200 cars they call "Premium" are the only ones fully designed as GT5 version cars. The other 800 or so "Standard" cars are just uprezzed cars from GT4. Case in point, look at the model and textures on this Audi. Not terrible, by any means, but certainly not something I would expect given the development time...

http://i.imgur.com/KCOCw.jpg

You will notice that in some screens and videos, some cars have dark tinted windows. These cars have no interior view and are just an upscaled version from GT4...

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d5247.html

[Hellhammer]

No, the 200 cars they call "Premium" are the only ones fully designed as GT5 version cars. The other 800 or so "Standard" cars are just uprezzed cars from GT4. Case in point, look at the model and textures on this Audi. Not terrible, by any means, but certainly not something I would expect given the development time...

http://i.imgur.com/KCOCw.jpg

You will notice that in some screens and videos, some cars have dark tinted windows. These cars have no interior view and are just an upscaled version from GT4...

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d5247.html

Hmm, that a shame :( Although as I said in my previous comment, I couldn't care less about the graphics and I likely won't even see difference between premium and standard car. Those 200 would have been enough for me anyway, there will likely be more cars via DLCs too.

They have hopefully spent their time doing something more useful than modeling cars

[NoSmokingBandit]

No, the 200 cars they call "Premium" are the only ones fully designed as GT5 version cars. The other 800 or so "Standard" cars are just uprezzed cars from GT4. Case in point, look at the model and textures on this Audi. Not terrible, by any means, but certainly not something I would expect given the development time...

http://i.imgur.com/KCOCw.jpg

You will notice that in some screens and videos, some cars have dark tinted windows. These cars have no interior view and are just an upscaled version from GT4...

http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d5247.html
"The massive lineup of cars from past Gran Turismo games has been beautifully recreated through the latest technology and the Playstation 3’s cutting-edge graphics."

Recreated. They didnt just open Maya and add more polys to the mesh, they recreated past cars.

Also, in the videos they show you can actually see outlines of seats and stuff when the sun is behind the cars, so there is some form of interior, just not as detailed as the premium cars. The 800 cars arent going to be junk, and nobody would even think about it if polyphony hadnt mentioned the premium cars, but now it seems like everyone thinks the 800 selection is going to look like gt4, which obviously it isnt judging from the videos.

[SevenInchScrew]

Hmm, that a shame :( Although as I said in my previous comment, I couldn't care less about the graphics
I agree. I mean, I still play Mario Kart 64 with friends. It looks like crap by today's standards, but no one cares, because the game is just fun. Some people want awesome graphics, to them that makes a game more fun. And that is fine, it just isn't what I want. As you guys were saying, I want fun and exciting racing in my driving games, not flashy looks. If the physics are much improved in GT5 from what they were in GT5:P and the "Time Trial Demo" then I will be happy.
"The massive lineup of cars from past Gran Turismo games has been beautifully recreated through the latest technology and the Playstation 3’s cutting-edge graphics."

Recreated. They didnt just open Maya and add more polys to the mesh, they recreated past cars.
Yea, the marketing teams can say all they want, but did you look at that screenshot? It doesn't look like they've done hardly anything to the car. The textures alone look really bad.

*edited because you edited your post with more*

Also, in the videos they show you can actually see outlines of seats and stuff when the sun is behind the cars, so there is some form of interior, just not as detailed as the premium cars.
Since you were quoting them earlier, here is another quote from the horses mouth...
*Standard cars do not support vehicle interior camera views.
So yes, they do have some polygons in the interior of the vehicle. They just don't matter.

*edit 2*

Again, the graphics and stuff are pretty meaningless to me. I'm just hoping to keep people's expectations in check here. This game doesn't have 800 awesome cars, and then 200 EVEN MORE awesome cars. It has 200 that were designed from the ground up for GT5. The others were reworked from older games.

[Dagless]

But, as I've said a bunch of times, the series seems to be shifting from an amazing racing game, to somewhat more of an interactive automotive encyclopedia.

After playing GT PSP I have a feeling this is way the series is going. I hope I'm wrong. If GT5 turns out to be good I'd be very tempted to use it as an excuse to get a 3DTV and racing wheel.

[DoFoT9]

After playing GT PSP I have a feeling this is way the series is going. I hope I'm wrong. If GT5 turns out to be good I'd be very tempted to use it as an excuse to get a 3DTV and racing wheel.
oh god dont tempt me man haha

are current PS3s compatible for a 3D "add-on" ?

[SevenInchScrew]

are current PS3s compatible for a 3D "add-on" ?
Yep. The recent update to the PS3 firmware added support for 3D games, and there will be another update later this fall, around September, that will enable it for Blu-ray movies.

[DoFoT9]

Yep. The recent update to the PS3 firmware added support for 3D games, and there will be another update later this fall, around September, that will enable it for Blu-ray movies.
SICK! im so excited! i hope that my big chunky PS3 is compatible :D

i wonder what type of 3D it uses, will generic TVs be compatible (etc)

[Dagless]

SICK! im so excited! i hope that my big chunky PS3 is compatible :D

i wonder what type of 3D it uses, will generic TVs be compatible (etc)

It wil be compatible (all PS3's are) but you'll need a special 3DTV. My cousin has a few at his bar, they're outstanding! And I'm hoping he wont mind if one of them goes missing later this year :cool:.

[DoFoT9]

It wil be compatible (all PS3's are) but you'll need a special 3DTV. My cousin has a few at his bar, they're outstanding! And I'm hoping he wont mind if one of them goes missing later this year :cool:.

PARTY AT DAGLESS'S! nah pretty jealous. there are technologies that turn existing 2D TVs into 3D. but i guess sony wont be utilising it :(

[-SD-]

I'm back to being excited about GT5 now :D Can anyone recommend a decent steering wheel for the PS3 please? I'd rather have a gear stick instead of paddles if possible, and a handbrake would be nice.

:apple:

[DoFoT9]

I'm back to being excited about GT5 now :D Can anyone recommend a decent steering wheel for the PS3 please? I'd rather have a gear stick instead of paddles if possible, and a handbrake would be nice.

:apple:

anything Logitech :P

[Reventon]

anything Logitech :P

If you have the cash, I hear the G27 is an awesome racing wheel. Otherwise, I hear the Driving Force GT is pretty good and relatively cheap.