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View Full Version : Any other ATV owners wholly unimpressed with iTV?




dmm219
Aug 24, 2010, 07:50 AM
I know...its still just a rumor...but its looking more concrete by the day.

As a current ATV owner, I'll easily say "no thanks" to the iTV.

Why?

1. No local HD at the tv. This is simply a non starter for anyone with slower internet (ie most of the country). Even local media streaming is inconsistent when using my time capsule. Streaming technology is just not there, especially HD. The only way I know I'm going to have a good, uninterrupted experience is to synch to a local HD.

2. Remote. I know, I know...everyone hates the little white remote. But I love it. Its simple. My 3 year old and my wife can easily use it. I've tried the remote app on my ipod touch and was unimpressed. First of all, I can't leave my touch near the tv at all times to use it as a remote and I definitely don't want to search the house for it if using a different tv. Ipad? No thanks. I'm not interested in a $500 fancy remote.

3. Apps. Now, I have to qualify this with the fact that I have an HTPC. No why would I care about apps on the apple tv? I get hulu and netflix for free already. Why would I want to pay for apps of these? Games? iOS will only ever succeed at casual games as the input mechanisms are way to simple. I'll stick to the companies that know what their doing in this space (xbox, wii...). Maybe a weather app would be nice...but still not needed.

4. still 720p...come on apple...give me at least ONE reason to upgrade.

I don't know, for me...who I think resembles a large segment of ATV owners...the iTV is seeming like a big nothing burger. We may be surprised.

But Kevin Rose is wearing some awfully rose-colored glasses if he thinks the iTV is going to "change everything" with what he has so far described.

JMHO tho...



Zimmy68
Aug 24, 2010, 08:23 AM
Nope.
It looks like a step backwards to me.

But my current AppleTV hasn't been plugged in since I got a WD Live.
Thing plays anything I throw at it and it doesn't have to talk to the iTunes mothership.

NightStorm
Aug 24, 2010, 08:27 AM
Here are my thoughts...

1. Non-issue for me as I stream everything from my NAS through my iMac. Not having a large hard drive in the unit will allow it to be smaller and cooler.

2. I use and like the included remote for the AppleTV in the bedroom, but use a Harmony remote in the living room. Will I buy an iPad just to use with my AppleTV... no.

3. You're an exception because you already have a HTPC. There are a number of AppleTV owners (me included) that would love for additional functionality for services not provided by Apple (without resorting to hacks, which have always been a mixed-blessing on the AppleTV).

4. Completely unsubstantiated rumor that was likely said since 720p is the maximum resolution of content currently sold in the iTunes Store. There has been nothing definitive about user-provided content. I do not see Apple removing functionality (current hardware can upscale to 1080p), and I expect them to at least bump the playback specs to match output from the iPhone 4. We'll have to wait and see on this one, but I don't see myself being in a big hurry to re-rip my Bluray/HDDVD collection in 1080p if Apple decides to allow it on the new device.

jcschlic
Aug 24, 2010, 08:30 AM
I've been an Apple TV owner since it was first released. Love it. But, it's now installed upstairs in my living room and is no longer the center of my entertainment experience. When the WD TV Live Plus was released, I jumped all over that. The only complaint I have about it is that my Harmony remote is having a hard time with the codes.

dmm219
Aug 24, 2010, 09:13 AM
"Non-issue for me as I stream everything from my NAS through my iMac. Not having a large hard drive in the unit will allow it to be smaller and cooler."

What NAS do you use? I use Firewire HD's attached to a mini streaming over a 1st gen TC using N. The performance has honestly been terrible (even in HD).

You'd think everything being apple, it should work well...maybe its apple's crappy 1st TC...

darkgroove
Aug 24, 2010, 09:26 AM
I'm not into the Apple TV at all, but I will weigh in on this speculation regardless.

The biggest complaint here seems to be that you will have LESS hard drive space than before. This makes ZERO sense. Apple is great at getting new people to buy their product and having their previous install base WANT to buy it. How do they expect to sell new units if the new ATV is a downgrade? Simple, they won't do this.

Or, the 99 dollar model (assuming it is true, and man is that cheap for Apple) will be the lowest end model and the other ATVs will just carry on.

If you are at all serious about really controlling your media, I don't know why you would confine yourself to an Apple TV in the first place, but hey, I'm biased.

OllyW
Aug 24, 2010, 09:31 AM
I'm not really that impressed with my Apple TV.

It's probably the most disappointing Apple product I've owned so I'm not expecting much from it's replacement. :(

Rich1963
Aug 24, 2010, 10:08 AM
1

ckurt25
Aug 24, 2010, 10:39 AM
Why all the fuss over 720 vs 1080? Who is going to be using this on a 50" or bigger screen and sitting closer than 8 feet? Its very difficult for the human eye to distinguish any difference under normal viewing conditions. I'm sure some out there have the huge screen and want to sit as close as possible to their sets but come on...... Find something else to get excited about.

http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/

ChargerSteve
Aug 24, 2010, 11:08 AM
I've been an AppleTV owner for 2 years and am generally happy with the device. The new rumors about the iTV leave me undecided, but I'm generally excited at the possibility of some new prod development for the AppleTV.

- I don't really care too much about 1080P. I'd like the option and would certainly expect at least 720P at higher frame/sec and bitrate in a new product.

- Internal storage being smaller is okay with me if they will allow streaming directly from a NAS or external HD (without having to have iTunes running).

- I'd love to have the ability to run apps. I'm sure the developer community would come out with a bunch of iTV specific apps that would be great. Options are nice.

- I would really like a simple on/off (or on/standby) button and discrete remote codes (also remote codes for common menu items like MyMusic, MyMovies, etc.). This might be more possible with the lack of HDD because it could "boot-up" quicker, closer to an instant on consumer electronics device. Also, it wouldn't have to be on to synch if it only had memory for OS, settings, and buffer.

hbryan
Aug 24, 2010, 11:25 AM
Why all the fuss over 720 vs 1080? Who is going to be using this on a 50" or bigger screen and sitting closer than 8 feet? Its very difficult for the human eye to distinguish any difference under normal viewing conditions. I'm sure some out there have the huge screen and want to sit as close as possible to their sets but come on...... Find something else to get excited about.

http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/

Well, I am. My living room isn't all that big, but I am loving me some HD soccer via FSC & FSC+.

Add my name to the list of "I am not impressed with iTV as rumored."

Right now, I have a PM G5 that I use for a media server (6.5TB Raid 5). Works just fine for me with uncompressed DVDs.

UnseenLlama
Aug 24, 2010, 11:40 AM
1. No local HD at the tv. - Are you watching things other than primetime shows? Otherwise, I don't see the big deal. ABC already has their app out to allow you to watch shows. CBS will be coming this fall and you can bet Fox and NBC will fall in line.

2. Remote - So if you have the ability to use your iPhone/iPad as a remote and a separate remote that comes with the iTV, what is the issue again?

3. Apps - You stated that you have Netflix for free on your HTCP, but you still need to pay the monthly fee for that streaming access. That's no different than the iPad app.

4. still 720p... - You realize most broadcasts are done in 720p or 1080i right?

I'm impressed by the fact of what iTV could become because of the apps. Do you think people thougth there would be the types of apps for the iPhone and iPad today when they released the API?

Also, DirectTV just announced their NFL Sunday ticket for non DirectTV subscribers. The price is crazy high right now, but you have the opprotunity to watch all NFL games on an iOS device. That's the one thing holding me back from cutting cable altogether.

I can't wait for the announcement in a few weeks.

dynaflash
Aug 24, 2010, 12:04 PM
As one who enjoys the benefits of the current atv form factor with the eSata mod and 1 TB drives connected I would say my biggest reservation (if the rumors are true) is the lack of hdd space. I like the autonomy that the current atv with a big hdd provides. For laptop users its indispensible ... as well if you are even remotely wanting 1080p native playback that is not going to happen over 90% of lans in real time with smooth playback. 720p is often a struggle.

I have other thoughts on this but will stick to the bullet points by the OP.

emotion
Aug 24, 2010, 12:07 PM
iTV isn't out yet (if it's called that). Premature e-thread-ulation.

al2o3cr
Aug 24, 2010, 01:23 PM
Yes, I'm terribly upset that the unannounced features of an unannounced product due to be released at an unspecified date and price point don't exactly conform to my personal vision - what is Steve thinking?!

tbayrgs
Aug 24, 2010, 01:31 PM
1. No local HD at the tv. - Are you watching things other than primetime shows? Otherwise, I don't see the big deal. ABC already has their app out to allow you to watch shows. CBS will be coming this fall and you can bet Fox and NBC will fall in line.

2. Remote - So if you have the ability to use your iPhone/iPad as a remote and a separate remote that comes with the iTV, what is the issue again?

3. Apps - You stated that you have Netflix for free on your HTCP, but you still need to pay the monthly fee for that streaming access. That's no different than the iPad app.

4. still 720p... - You realize most broadcasts are done in 720p or 1080i right?

I'm impressed by the fact of what iTV could become because of the apps. Do you think people thougth there would be the types of apps for the iPhone and iPad today when they released the API?

1. I think you misunderstood the OP--he's referring to a local hard drive (should've said HDD), not local HD programming.

2. I think the OP's concern was that there wouldn't be a remote included--I don't believe any of the rumors clarify this, only speak to the ability of another iDevice (iPod, iPhone, iPad) to fill that role as well. I can't see them not including some sort of remote.

3. I agree that the addition of apps is a big plus--not sure why the OP is even considering an iTV (or whatever it'll be called) if he's already running a HTPC.

4. I hope this rumor isn't true myself, not because I need to be able to purchase 1080p content, but rather to be able to streaming content from my own library (blu-ray encodes).

Tilpots
Aug 24, 2010, 01:34 PM
Also, DirectTV just announced their NFL Sunday ticket for non DirectTV subscribers. The price is crazy high right now, but you have the opprotunity to watch all NFL games on an iOS device. That's the one thing holding me back from cutting cable altogether.


This is about the only thing in this thread worth talking about, for now. The NFL for HTPC users! It's $350 for the whole season. Way overpriced, but at least it's available.

Wild-Bill
Aug 24, 2010, 01:36 PM
Not impressed. Step backward in my opinion.

I like my ATV the way it is now.

UnseenLlama
Aug 24, 2010, 02:28 PM
1. I think you misunderstood the OP--he's referring to a local hard drive (should've said HDD), not local HD programming.


That makes more sense. Thanks! :)

KDR
Aug 24, 2010, 02:52 PM
I am beginning to think that these supposed "leaks" are an intentional ploy by Apple to get people talking and grumbling about features, etc. Once they figure out which gripes will actually impact sales volume, as opposed to just annoying tech-obsessed forum posters they modify and build accordingly.

mhdena
Aug 24, 2010, 07:44 PM
Not impressed. Step backward in my opinion.

I like my ATV the way it is now.

I bought my ATVs as an ipod for my home stereo and bedroom system. (have 2 160gbs ones). I record in Apple Lossless.

All the other things are bonuses to me.

I am still happy, even more so with the addition of the internet radio channels added a few months ago.

For HD Dish is better than apples 720
For 1080p I will use real BluRay

Neither of these is important to me in ATV

I actually have a 3rd ATV (160gb) I got when I mistakenly thought my bedroom one had bit the dust :D

ovrlrd
Aug 24, 2010, 08:12 PM
1. Simple solution, with the new iTV you can run TV apps like Slingbox or EyeTV. All it takes is buying something like a Slingbox, hooking it up to an HDTV antenna/tuner and then streaming it live to your iTV. I can't believe people are still complaining about this one when the whole "app store" is the solution to this problem.

2. You made an issue out of a non-issue, there will be a remote still, but you will have the option of using your iPhone/iPod/iPad just like you do with the current AppleTV.

3. Your lack of imagination on this one doesn't mean that apps are a good idea. Plus Netflix is a free app, same with Hulu. They both require subscriptions though, but that doesn't mean you pay extra for the apps themselves. That is no different on an HTPC (well, except Hulu perhaps).

4. 720p would suck, I agree. But maybe this is just a rumor and not true, or they might say it's only 720p at the moment and will get the ability once the "TrueHD" iTunes video store launches. As in it can play 1080p, just no 1080p content from Apple just yet.

Bokes
Aug 24, 2010, 08:52 PM
Big step backwards IMO.
I have ripped a full collection of DVD's that I would love to store on the Atv.
Streaming works OK- but then I'm forced to turn on my Macpro every time I want to watch something- or let it run 24/7...no way.
As it is now- I have to pick and choose what I keep on the Atv. I would rather pay for a 2TB version and be done with it.

I was hoping they would let us use the USB port for external drives. Why is that there? I also want full ISO support. I love the extras and DVD bonus features- will I get that with iTV? doubt it.

Perhaps a mini is the answer.

They need to adopt a cloud system that would allow users to buy and store content. Something like a media friendly mobile me. And offer titles with all the bells and whistles.

Billy Boo Bob
Aug 25, 2010, 01:29 AM
Also, DirectTV just announced their NFL Sunday ticket for non DirectTV subscribers. The price is crazy high right now, but you have the opprotunity to watch all NFL games on an iOS device. That's the one thing holding me back from cutting cable altogether.

I can't wait for the announcement in a few weeks.
Similar to the NFL thing, I'd be interested in MLB.tv... I take care of my old and feeble Dad, and he's a baseball nut. Will watch anybody play.

In the past I've ordered up the last couple months of the season so he can watch our Tigers lose, :rolleyes: but whenever a game is on I lose access to my computer for a couple/three hours. I would love to be able to run it on an ATV/iTV and leave my computer out of it. Then he can watch as much and as often as he wants.

And before ANYONE mumbles about storing stuff in the cloud at Apple's new server farm, think again. Upload and download speeds just aren't there yet. Some of the more rural parts of the country max out at 768kbps down stream, and the upload speeds are just above dial-up. My library alone would take months to send upstream, and then I'd have to buffer anything I want to watch for at least 10 minutes.
I don't think that's exactly how they'll utilize the cloud thing. Since ATV is "supposed" to be for content ordered from the iTunes store (at least with TV and Movies), I think they'll just keep a reference on the side of what you've purchased already and you can watch from the same master file that you downloaded when you purchased. I really doubt you'd have to upload a TV show that you bought and downloaded. Their drives would end up with hundreds/thousands of copies of the exact same file that way. And of many, many files, each with thousands of copies.

Well, that is for iTunes purchases, anyway... As for your own stuff, like iMovie output and other "legit" video, well... Yeah. You're in that boat.

Granted, this is not to say that your other points are wrong, and that your dislike of the idea is invalid at all... I have mixed feelings about it all, as well. I just thought I'd point out the cloud thing since you mentioned how long it would take to upload. And yeah, I realize that it still wouldn't change your having to buffer a viewing/download (unless they create another copy/encode of it to dumb it down a bit to keep file size/bitrate usable for more people).

I guess the thing to do is not think of this as something that's supposed to "please all of the people all of the time", so long as they make it an option, and not turn it into the only way to work with video. I assume they'll keep the current method of purchase/download/store locally, as well. Maybe they'll leave the current style of ATV in the market, also, for those who want/need to store a lot locally (and have to deal with your speed dilemma). If they do (or if this new gizmo doesn't pan out), I'm on board the "They really need to beef up the hardware in a new model" train.

I'd like to see a software version ship that you can run on an existing Mac. A lot of people have an older Mac laying around that could be turned into an ATV. Until it died, I used an old iMac 14 in place of my ATV. It was nice to be able to watch high-rate MKV files right away without having to wait until I run it through Handbrake. But, I learned to somewhat like the ATV menu system a little bit more than Front Row. The nephews around utilize YouTube on the ATV a lot, too.

Kurgan
Aug 25, 2010, 06:45 AM
1. I love that it don't have a HDD. Media should be stored on a backed NAS or similiar not on devices. That will only lead to a synchronization hell.

2. Old remote induces hierarchal tree menus. I would love to get rid of this navigation type.

3. I also have an HTPC. I would love to get rid of it. Computer is for production and iOS is for consumption

4. I would love to have 1080p but it's not a must for me. I think most people in target audience (mom, dad etc) can live with 720p 1-2 device generations

iTV will be a MAJOR success.

trip1ex
Aug 25, 2010, 09:15 AM
Sounds like the OP just has sour grapes because he has already spent $$$$ on equipment to do this stuff.

Most of the market doesn't already have an ATV and a HTPC though. And it is going to be very attractive to get much of that functionality at the rumored $99 pricepoint. These other boxes don't have an app ecosystem and/or don't stream from you computer.

1. STreaming works great for many now and only will get better for all.

2. remote. I would assume remote stays although probably as an Apple tax. I don't think Apple is going to require a Touch or iPad. That would tank sales. Could use a remote with more functionality like tv input and power.

3. Apps will get you better 10-ft interfaces than web pages. Sorry Apple is going to put apps into a cheap device. Bad Apple. This guy has a HTPC.

4. This goes hand in hand with #1. Streaming isn't going to work so great pumping around 1080p files right now. In time you will see 1080p, but right now 720p is the sweet spot.


Anyway this all a rumor so who knows how much is true like the pricepoint. And even if they sell it at $99 it doesn't mean it will be the most attractive version. We'll likely see versions at $179 and up with more flash memory just like with the iPad, iPhone and Touch.

And the remote will probably be an add-on.

Shoesy
Aug 25, 2010, 11:47 AM
The one thing that AppleTV does great is the almost instant downloads. Press buy and a few seconds later the show is ready to watch (even before the end has finished downloading). Only thing is I'll watch the episode that one time and then thats it, eating up hard drive space and network bandwidth as it makes it's way back to my Mac.

A disposable rental model sounds great to me.

G$$
Aug 25, 2010, 12:48 PM
I like my ATV, Iíve had it for two years and it does what I want it to do when I want it to do it.

This new ITV why bother? I do the same thing with my old iPod and or my IPhone with a $12 plug I bought from bestbuy.

afd
Aug 25, 2010, 02:28 PM
The lack of a HD would be fine if they allowed playback via the USB port and some kind of iTunes server running on a TC. Maybe even have an SD slot to view camera pictures and video. If they do that 16GB would be fine, I bought a 32GB iPad as it was the biggest I could afford, but after using it I'd get by with 16. I have the web server switched on on my iMac and it streams my film and telly collection at 720p fine over G.

TricBox
Aug 25, 2010, 08:02 PM
I've had an ATV for a couple of years and it's ok. My biggest complaint is that it only connects to computers actively running iTunes and not to my NAS box. The new product needs to connect to NAS units. DLNA?