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benwa02
Dec 6, 2004, 06:09 PM
Question: I want to know which machine i should get and why?--More details below if you want to read.


Alrite i need someone to help point me in a good direction. I am currently a junior studyin computer graphics & new media to help you know what i intend to use this machine for. I want to know which machine i should get and why? the most expensive one i was looking at was the PM dual 1.8. But do i really need it? Or would getting the imac be good enough. I would like this computer to last a good amount of time hopefully well after i graduate so i want it to be ahead of its time. Real sorry for the long write-up. Thanks for any help.

maya
Dec 6, 2004, 06:28 PM
The dual 1.8 should fit your needs quite well. Plus you will get EDU pricing which will drop the price more. The iMac G5 though you get a screen you cannot upgrade internals other than (WiFi, ram, HDD, BT).

The dual 1.8 PM will be future proofed and will last you for quite some time to come since it has 8Gigs worth or ram you can expand to plus all the expansion options. You can always pick up a low cost LCD DVI screen else where.


Hope that helps.

benwa02
Dec 6, 2004, 06:39 PM
Thanks, it definately helps. Hearing others opinions just reinforces mine about the PM.

How about the single 1.8 vs. dual 1.8 worth it?

Still would like to hear more opinions.

Devie
Dec 6, 2004, 08:13 PM
I'm going for a PowerMac SP 1.8GHz, as I dont need a second processor, but I want a stand alone computer, also I want a better 3D card and more RAM slots over the iMac.
I think it works out to be a little under $1000AUD more for me to do this, but I think its worth it for some odd reason :p.

maya
Dec 6, 2004, 08:43 PM
Thanks, it definately helps. Hearing others opinions just reinforces mine about the PM.

How about the single 1.8 vs. dual 1.8 worth it?

Still would like to hear more opinions.

For the love of, do not buy the single 1.8, the dual is far better you will see it put to full use in Tiger you can count on that. The single is good if you are trying to make it a server or you already have a screen and all you want is a G5. The dual 1.8 will last longer and will benefit you in the long run much more so than the single.

If you are encoding, rendering, editing RT it great to have the dual G5.

If I were you I would hold off till MacWorld SF 2005 since it is rumoured that the dual 2.0GHz will be the low end you might get the 2.0Ghz for the same price as the dual 1.8Ghz today. The dual 1.8 is also a great machine today however I only would buy it if I really need it today. If not its only a month wait. And I see no reason why the 2.0GHz dual would see shipping delays Apple has problems with mid and higher end models shipping never the low end models.

That should answer your questions, plus you will also have a better Video Card (here is hoping). :)

maya
Dec 6, 2004, 08:45 PM
I'm going for a PowerMac SP 1.8GHz, as I dont need a second processor, but I want a stand alone computer, also I want a better 3D card and more RAM slots over the iMac.
I think it works out to be a little under $1000AUD more for me to do this, but I think its worth it for some odd reason :p.

If you already have a well working LCD or CRT display then the single 1.8 is fine however the dual 1.8 is better. It all comes down to cost and each user is different. :)

benwa02
Dec 6, 2004, 08:54 PM
If I were you I would hold off till MacWorld SF 2005 since it is rumoured that the dual 2.0GHz will be the low end you might get the 2.0Ghz for the same price as the dual 1.8Ghz today.

I was planning on waiting till after the holidays just to see if prices would drop. Is there enough speculation that prices will drop within 2 months? Would I still be able to get the dual 1.8ghz if Apple made the dual 2.0 the low end model and im sure it would be cheaper but give me a ballpark number. Sorry im so detail-intense, I just want to know as much as i can to make a knowledgeable purchase.

Col127
Dec 6, 2004, 09:10 PM
the dual smokes the single processor if you look at benchmarks on the two processors. in fact, the single g5 1.6 and 1.8 aren't much faster than dual g4s and in some cases are slower.

maya
Dec 6, 2004, 09:12 PM
I was planning on waiting till after the holidays just to see if prices would drop. Is there enough speculation that prices will drop within 2 months? Would I still be able to get the dual 1.8ghz if Apple made the dual 2.0 the low end model and im sure it would be cheaper but give me a ballpark number. Sorry im so detail-intense, I just want to know as much as i can to make a knowledgeable purchase.

Here is a some advice:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

I would wait till mid-late jan 2005 to buy. The G5 is really in need of a revision and a new Graphic Card. There was also a low powered G5 chips and that is making its way to market in early 2005. My guess says those chips will find a home in the new rev C G5 PM all dual based. Plus the 5200 Ultra is really bottom line to even run 10.4, any Mac sold in 2005 will be Tiger compliant so expect a better Graphic Card. If you do plan to buy the low end model next year that should be 2.0 GHz dual it will cost the same as todays 1.8 dual PM.

To be honest I would wait, since I am for a G5PM rev C. :)

maya
Dec 6, 2004, 09:14 PM
the dual smokes the single processor if you look at benchmarks on the two processors. in fact, the single g5 1.6 and 1.8 aren't much faster than dual g4s and in some cases are slower.

LOL, I bet that was one of the main reasons why Apple decided to go Dual with all they PM line. The single one that was just recently released was an odd move. weird indeed, anything for those "headless-Mac" consumers. :)

benwa02
Dec 6, 2004, 09:25 PM
thanks m a y a. ill definately be waiting. i wish they would keep the dual 1.8ghz and bump the price down cuz i think i would rather do that and save some money than get a slightly better machine. But if not then whatever, ill have a better machine. Thanks for the help, i believe my choice is for the dual PM.

maya
Dec 6, 2004, 09:31 PM
thanks m a y a. ill definately be waiting. i wish they would keep the dual 1.8ghz and bump the price down cuz i think i would rather do that and save some money than get a slightly better machine. But if not then whatever, ill have a better machine. Thanks for the help, i believe my choice is for the dual PM.

That is not the way Apple works, you might be able to get the now dual 1.8 at a lower price if and after the new machines are introduced however that is if you are lucky and you find a store that still has the older machines on sale and are indeed willing to sell it to you for a lower price.

I would check around local Apple retailers 2 weeks before MWSF 2005.

Again its only a month wait no biggy. And your welcome. :)

Devie
Dec 6, 2004, 10:44 PM
If you already have a well working LCD or CRT display then the single 1.8 is fine however the dual 1.8 is better. It all comes down to cost and each user is different. :)

I dont have a LCD or CRT display that I can use (currently using one of the 'family' computers). So I'll be buying it with a Dell 20" Widescreen.
I just dont have the current needs for a dual processor computer, I am only a student and I want a computer where I can surf the net, word processing, HTML, light gaming and some 3D animation/modeling work (just personal stuff, nothing big).
There are two outstanding reasons why I want the 'headless mac', I want to someday maybe build myself a peecee for gaming, so I can just use the same monitor/keyobard/mouse for it all.
The other reason is the 3D card...

vtprinz
Dec 7, 2004, 05:22 PM
Does anyone know when we might see an upgrade to the iMac's video card? This is one of the biggest things pushing me toward a PowerMac. If they'd just upgrade it one step up, I'd have no qualms about getting one.

maya
Dec 7, 2004, 06:32 PM
Does anyone know when we might see an upgrade to the iMac's video card? This is one of the biggest things pushing me toward a PowerMac. If they'd just upgrade it one step up, I'd have no qualms about getting one.

You can expect the Video Card of the imac G5 rev B to change since the 5200 FX has been shipping for a bit longer than expected.

By past experiences I would say sometime March-April 2005 that is when the rev B will be released with a NEW Graphic Card. :)

Not much of a wait IMHO, 3.5 months. :)

StarbucksSam
Dec 7, 2004, 06:57 PM
If you're into serious stuff like graphics, I'd go for the G5 PowerMac which is more professional and powerful. Low-end model, though.

Littleodie914
Dec 7, 2004, 07:42 PM
Yea, I guess I'm just reiterating what all the above posters have been explaining, but the Powermac is probably a better bet. Not only is the graphics card upgradable, which will help down the line if you decide you need a bit more graphics capabilities, but you can also choose whether you want a CRT or an LCD, and what size fits your need. With an iMac, you're not only stuck with an LCD, (not that it's bad, just that you don't have a choice) but you also have only a choice between a 17" or 20" as your main screen.

punkmac
Dec 7, 2004, 07:50 PM
This is a tough call. The innards of the new single PM are the same as the iMac and perform about the same.

Both have the crippled frontside bus and slower cache.

It all comes down to "Do you want to be able to upgrade without buying a new computer and ditching a nice pretty screen?"

The powermac might seem more pricey now but think of upgrading your HD internals are always cheaper, the optical drive can be upgraded faster and cheaper (also dual layer).

Last VIDEO CARD, even if you are not "gamemaster" it's about freedom of choice!

I guess this wasn't a tough call after all....I say go for the powermac!



I.

jefhatfield
Dec 7, 2004, 08:03 PM
Question: I want to know which machine i should get and why?--More details below if you want to read.


Alrite i need someone to help point me in a good direction. I am currently a junior studyin computer graphics & new media to help you know what i intend to use this machine for. I want to know which machine i should get and why? the most expensive one i was looking at was the PM dual 1.8. But do i really need it? Or would getting the imac be good enough. I would like this computer to last a good amount of time hopefully well after i graduate so i want it to be ahead of its time. Real sorry for the long write-up. Thanks for any help.

so i figure at least through your junior year, senior year, and perhaps two full years after you graduate...that's four years and with the way software, especially graphics related software, moves forward then get the full tower

now if it's just for email, word processing, very light graphics, and light gaming, then the imac should suit you fine for three or four years...but since you plan to, hopefully, be a professional artist, then get the power mac

Koodauw
Dec 7, 2004, 08:09 PM
I think I read somewhere the differences in the BUS speeds and processors in the Powermacs and iMacs, Would anyone be able to point out the exact differences?

From what I can remember

The iMac and the New SP PM (1.8?) have the same Processor and bus right?

The Dual Proccesor machines use a diffrent proccessor and have faster bus.

The "original 1.8 SP was the best, but the ones that came out after it were different somehow.

If someone could explain the difference, and how much a performance gap there is, i would appreciate it much.

maya
Dec 7, 2004, 08:35 PM
I think I read somewhere the differences in the BUS speeds and processors in the Powermacs and iMacs, Would anyone be able to point out the exact differences?

From what I can remember

The iMac and the New SP PM (1.8?) have the same Processor and bus right?

The Dual Proccesor machines use a diffrent proccessor and have faster bus.

The "original 1.8 SP was the best, but the ones that came out after it were different somehow.

If someone could explain the difference, and how much a performance gap there is, i would appreciate it much.


Allow me to sum it all up for you.

iMac G5 and SP PMG5 1.8Ghz = same chip, same FSB, same RAM, same ATA for graphics and same Graphic Card which is the 5200 Ultra.

There are very few differences such as more ram on the PM and more ports so on, however not much of a difference.

When you get down to it with the imac G5 you get an LCD and with the SP PMG5 you do not.


--------------

The rev A PMG5's have the same FSB except the duals have the newer FX G5 chip.

roadapple
Dec 7, 2004, 09:03 PM
well, I am using a G4 667 with 1 gig of ram powerbook and of course it works fine for email, light photoshop and the like (It should for 3.6K paid 2002). I am waiting to buy a new computer (and ipod), but would not purchase anything till after the SF, don't know why anyone would buy any G4 at this point with 10.4 soon to be out. Buying a G5 emac, G5 powerbook and 23" display the day they come out. I would wait until after xmas to buyinh anything apple.

benwa02
Dec 7, 2004, 09:23 PM
but would not purchase anything till after the SF

*whats SF?-are you talking about the san francisco conference?

good feedback from all.

budugu
Dec 7, 2004, 09:46 PM
IMHO i think you should just wait till the conference either if you want to buy an imac or a PM. The SP PM is not worth it. If they upgrade the graphics card (which i think they would) then you are much better of buying an imac. You can always hook up your imac to another larger monitor (say a dell 20" which still suports VGA). since SP-PM and imac have literally the same specs, and imac costs much less you can get an updated version of it 2 years from now as opposed to 4 year. I think computers pretty much have a life span of about 2 years (ie. for power users including students). I am sure that a newer version of a machine/processor with decent amount of memmory and other hardware is far better than a older machine with every thing maxed out! I think you should buy value computers at a brisk pace than a very large investment and waiting for 3-4 years or more.

MisterGreen
Dec 7, 2004, 10:07 PM
IMHO i think you should just wait till the conference either if you want to buy an imac or a PM. The SP PM is not worth it. If they upgrade the graphics card (which i think they would) then you are much better of buying an imac. You can always hook up your imac to another larger monitor (say a dell 20" which still suports VGA). since SP-PM and imac have literally the same specs, and imac costs much less you can get an updated version of it 2 years from now as opposed to 4 year. I think computers pretty much have a life span of about 2 years (ie. for power users including students). I am sure that a newer version of a machine/processor with decent amount of memmory and other hardware is far better than a older machine with every thing maxed out! I think you should buy value computers at a brisk pace than a very large investment and waiting for 3-4 years or more.

Here's what I'm doing. I'll wait until mid January and see what shakes out... IF the dual 1.8 beccomes the entry level powermac at a similar price to what the single processor is now, then I'll buy a power mac... given a choice between a SP Powermac and and Imac.. I'm leaning towards the imac... the main difference is dual monitor support as near as I can tell.

Devie
Dec 7, 2004, 10:26 PM
Here's what I'm doing. I'll wait until mid January and see what shakes out... IF the dual 1.8 beccomes the entry level powermac at a similar price to what the single processor is now, then I'll buy a power mac... given a choice between a SP Powermac and and Imac.. I'm leaning towards the imac... the main difference is dual monitor support as near as I can tell.
and there are two more RAM slots, plus PCI slots so therefore upgradable graphics card.

maya
Dec 7, 2004, 11:08 PM
Here's what I'm doing. I'll wait until mid January and see what shakes out... IF the dual 1.8 beccomes the entry level powermac at a similar price to what the single processor is now, then I'll buy a power mac... given a choice between a SP Powermac and and Imac.. I'm leaning towards the imac... the main difference is dual monitor support as near as I can tell.

There is a screen spanning hack that you can use with the imac G5, so really there is not much of a difference other than more ram slots with the SPPMG5 and some more ports that I am sure you might use only 50% of the time. Plus you have to buy a screen.

iMac G5 is a great deal if it had a better Graphic Card, didn't use the old G5 chips and noise issues. Hope rev B uses the low powered G5 chips and cuts back on the heat and noise. :)

maya
Dec 7, 2004, 11:10 PM
and there are two more RAM slots, plus PCI slots so therefore upgradable graphics card.

Future Graphic Cards will be using PCIe, so the expansion of using a NEW Graphics Card down the road is going to be small. (not to say they will not make PCI cards though it might match or exceed in price compared to PCIe cards.

If the PMG5 rev C has no PCIe, I will say invest in it.

Devie
Dec 8, 2004, 03:45 AM
Future Graphic Cards will be using PCIe, so the expansion of using a NEW Graphics Card down the road is going to be small. (not to say they will not make PCI cards though it might match or exceed in price compared to PCIe cards.

If the PMG5 rev C has no PCIe, I will say invest in it.
PCIe cards are going to take like four years to become mainstream and phase them in as the main card, as to that there just arnt enough people that currently have PCIe on their motherboards.
It would be very stupid for ATi and nVidia to start making PCIe only cards for their entire series. To many people wont be able to buy them.

punkmac
Dec 8, 2004, 05:18 AM
There is a screen spanning hack that you can use with the imac G5, so really there is not much of a difference other than more ram slots with the SPPMG5 and some more ports that I am sure you might use only 50% of the time. Plus you have to buy a screen.

iMac G5 is a great deal if it had a better Graphic Card, didn't use the old G5 chips and noise issues. Hope rev B uses the low powered G5 chips and cuts back on the heat and noise. :)


Just remember, the output is only VGA, not DVI. You will also have to buy the $20 cable to go from miniVGA>VGA out of the iMac.

I love the Sceenspanning hack, I drive a 19" CRT at 1280x1024 at 75Hz.

To go from miniVGA>VGA>CONVERTERBOX(VGA>DVI) would look horrible and cost alot. ($300 I think)



I.