Lost my job today

[MacDawg]

Lost my job today. :(
The nature of the beast in the airline industry.

My job was eliminated, but fortunately I had 'roll back' rights.
So, I am able to leave my Project Manager job and head for the "front line" again, from whence I came once upon a time.

I was told to report to the "ramp" as a baggage handler on Monday or I could leave the company. My boss's boss wasn't so lucky. He had 28 years with the company and was age 50. They took his ID and said have a nice life. Right now it is a blood bath, and it all came down after 4:00 p.m., so I haven't heard about all my 'buddies' and where they fell on the sword. Some were out of town.

So, its back out into the cold in the winter, the rain in the fall and spring, and the blazing sun in the summer to stack luggage (we just call them bags) in the belly of an airplane. Rotating days off, working on holidays, probably evening shift. I'm not too good for the work, but I am getting too old to do this. :o

How about the rest of you?
Anybody else lost their job lately?
I feel for you... and my heart goes out to you.

I'll be spending a lot less time with y'all now.
I'll have to work a lot of overtime to make up for the 45% pay cut I'll be taking. It will mean 12 hour days and working one of my off days, as long as the work if available. If not, it will mean a real second job.

I'll have to say goodbye to my 2002 Ford F-150, the first decent vehicle I've had in ages. Just got it last year when I got a promotion and took my '85 Subaru to the junk yard for $25.

Anyways... Merry Christmas to all!

Whimper, Whimper - Dawg

[chanoc]

Sounds like the typical sceen in America today, middle-class being forced into poverty. Post your bosses' emails and they will be SPAMed with porn, and maybe they will get the boot. :D

I am without work too. For the last two months I have been applying at every freaking job I can think of. I have even put is at restarants to wash dishes. Not one of the 22 restaurants I applied with has responded by phone, fax or email. An employment specialist with the state told me that my college education, Wed design, and intelligence was scaring off the restaurant owners who felt intimidated by my education. :rolleyes:

They told me to not attach a resume and not mention education beyond the 8th grade. :rolleyes:

The Starvation Army told me that they were not paying their Bell Ringers this year, so that was not an easy option.

No Web jobs except .Net, ASP, IIS, Java, C#; Two openings for Web Developers, but no entry - intermediate Web designers.

I am going to apply at a taxi dispatch with an 8 - 10 an hour wage, this should be interesting.

On the bright side, my friend has offered to pay for 3-6 credits of online classes with The University of Alaska Southeast (http://www.uas.alaska.edu) so I can finish a certificate in M$ Office and take the computer math class (covers binary, decimal, logic, database math, hexadecimal, etc). Hopefully with the certificate in MS Office that will get me a mundane job as an admin assistant, typing in Word and doing some Excel and data entry.

Best of luck to you my friend! :)

[MacDawg]

Not one of the 22 restaurants I applied with has responded by phone, fax or email. An employment specialist with the state told me that my college education, Web design, and intelligence was scaring off the restaurant owners who felt intimidated by my education. :rolleyes:

That's why I feel fortunate to have a job at all, even though it is around $10/hr. Seven years ago I was in your position. I was 42, with a Bachelor's, Master's and Doctorate and couldn't get a job in a warehouse or doing anything. Nobody would talk to me, but would interview and hire kids just out of HS.

My brother-in-law got me a job at the airline, stacking bags for $9, and I eventually moved up to the training department and then into Project Management.

Alas, I have come full circle, but I am grateful to have a job to report to on Monday. And, I have gotten my son through college and he will get his Master's in May. My daughter finishes her Bachelor's in May too, so I don't have that to worry about.

I am really blessed... no doubt.
I have my health (though I'm overweight... but that won't last long now)
I have my kids through college (almost)
I don't have any debt but my house (12 more yrs) once I sell my truck.

Best of luck to you during this holiday season my friend.
My thoughts and prayers will be with you.

Woof, Woof (tail tucked between my legs though)- Dawg

[Sun Baked]

It sort of sucks the way these companies time the reductions if force, it's the holiday.

But Wallstreet keeps rewarding this behavior.

Sucks when it's either, can't hire enough one year, and can't fire enough the next.

[palusami]

sorry to hear about the job macdawg... :(

i realize its bad but things could be a lot worse. keeping this in mind usually keeps me positive. i have my health, friends, family, and a beautiful son, all of which keep me pretty happy and feeling fortunate. most importantly, i have a mac dammit! :p

there are a lot of things that happen to me to which i could use as means to argue that my life sucks or that things are really bad. i refuse to let those things get me down. i'm willing to bet that you have a few things that you can still feel happy about too.

try keep your head up...things can only get better!

[stubeeef]

Dawg, man I hate that!

I found this corp pilot gig after immenent fourloughs coming, gone stick it out as long as I can.

I was a head hunter once, and have some good advice. Those that are head hunters now, feel free to chime in.

Get all the numbers in your head that make you look good. ie managed 6 people or 6 jr managers and 30 people....
proposed and managed budget in excess of $500,000 dollars. Always under budget by at least $50,000. reduced cost x by $y .......
Dig'm up while fresh in your head. Use the high repetition words that scans like. Words like managed, built, ranked #1. Maybe you had the most effecient dept among 12 worldwide.
Use as many hard numbers as possible!
You know the web sites, hit'm hard.
Now also do the one most don't do, go to the local job service, yes it will seem futile to wait hours there, but lots of companies use them exclusively, and don't advertise anywhere else. They will keep you in the data base for a long time. As a manager, you are qualified in almost anything. Do you have a degree? thought about more of it? Go to all the temp companies cause they have exclusive openings in your area too. Just make sure you use a HeadHunter or temp agency LAST! The reason is, when a company gets your resume from a HH or temp agency they are obligated to pay the fee if they hire you, and may take someone else they want less because of it, so don't use them till you need them, but don't forget them either. Also tap your alumni assoc., often overlooked but a great source, and of course your church and family.
You have been and are in my prayers, since you mentioned this possiblity a few days ago. Good luck and PM if I can help.
Stu

[MacDawg]

most importantly, i have a mac dammit! :p



How right you are!!
One thing I won't feel bad about is turning in my XP laptop!!
Piece of crap! Had to do most of my work at home on my iMac!

I'm not down, I've been expecting this for the last 2 months.
I've actually missed the guys (and gals) out on the ramp.
They are quite the characters.

No, this won't get me down. Sure, it hurts when you get punched in the mouth, but you spit the blood and bits of broken tooth out of your mouth, wipe it on your sleeve and then smile and say, "c'mon, is that all you've got!"

There were people on the floor crying and cursing, but I was walking around with a smile, saying goodbye to friends and encouraging them.

My lifestyle will have to adjust, but that's OK
Like you said, they can take away my job, but they can't touch my Mac!!

Woof, Woof - Dawg

[Mr. Anderson]

So sorry to hear that - but may I ask, why did you settle for an airline job with a PhD. - were there really no other options?

D

[realityisterror]

"The key to success is optimism. Look at what you have, not what you don't."

looks like you're doing well..

good luck,
reality

[wdlove]

I'm sorry to hear of your demotion Dawg. I think that you are to be congratulated for your positive attitude. That is why will come out of this OK. A persons attitude is adversity is very important. If I may ask, is your attitude related to your religious belief? Even in adversity there is usually something better to come.

[brap]

I recently got made redundant from my place of work, so I feel your pain. Sucks, I'm having to work for a pittance over the holidays because nothing has come up... best of luck sir.

[musicpyrite]

Sorry to hear about you loosing your job, MacDawg. :(


I've never lost a job, but then again, I've never had one. Hope to start my first job early next year, working with the ITs at my local town hall.

[Doctor Q]

I was 42, with a Bachelor's, Master's and Doctorate and couldn't get a job in a warehouse or doing anything. Nobody would talk to me, but would interview and hire kids just out of HS.Why? Because you were overqualified? Because they thought they'd have to pay you more based on your advanced education? Because they knew you'd be likely to move on to something better? Or don't you know their reasons?

[MacDawg]

Why? Because you were overqualified? Because they thought they'd have to pay you more based on your advanced education? Because they knew you'd be likely to move on to something better? Or don't you know their reasons?

Probably one, or all of the above, but they wouldn't even interview me to let me ask them. (I had some of my own ideas at the time) I applied everywhere I could think of. Because my brother-in-law hand carried my application through employment, the airline gave me an entry level job. Though I kept looking, I stayed and moved up there. I guess we all need perspective in life again from time to time. (Spoken as I spit out the blood and wipe it on my sleeve) I had to start over when I was 42, now, I will start over again at 49. I'll be joining about 400 new hires on the job, but they will start over the next month.

Woof, (spit), Woof, (spit, wipe mouth with paw) - Dawg

[Mechcozmo]

I was 42, with a Bachelor's, Master's and Doctorate and couldn't get a job in a warehouse or doing anything. Nobody would talk to me, but would interview and hire kids just out of HS
Why? Because you were overqualified? Because they thought they'd have to pay you more based on your advanced education? Because they knew you'd be likely to move on to something better? Or don't you know their reasons?

42 is the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

That sucks... when I graduate HS in 2 years is this something I get to look forward to?

[rdowns]

Probably one, or all of the above, but they wouldn't even interview me to let me ask them. (I had some of my own ideas at the time) I applied everywhere I could think of. Because my brother-in-law hand carried my application through employment, the airline gave me an entry level job. Though I kept looking, I stayed and moved up there. I guess we all need perspective in life again from time to time. (Spoken as I spit out the blood and wipe it on my sleeve) I had to start over when I was 42, now, I will start over again at 49. I'll be joining about 400 new hires on the job, but they will start over the next month.

Woof, (spit), Woof, (spit, wipe mouth with paw) - Dawg

Sorry to hear about this but your attitude seems great. I admire you for that. I hope you keep a positive attitude and find what you are looking for.

Here I was all ready to start a thread that I was promoted to VP today and then I saw your thread.

[zach]

That sucks, man...

I'm a high school sophomore, I can't even imagine what that must be like... To be relegated to the unskilled jobs after being in the skilled positions.

But hey, rejoice in the good things you have. People don't cost money to be with ;)

-zach

[Baron58]

and head for the "front line" again, from whence I came once upon a time.

I was told to report to the "ramp" as a baggage handler


Delta. Gotta be.

In 1994 I was desperate for a job. I applied and was accepted at Delta for 'outside gate', as the postion was called. I went to the interview, the physical, and then spent a rainy day hanging out on Concourses A, B, C, and D staring out at the ramp until I came to the realisation that *I* did not want to do *that*. I wanted to get from having a commercial certificate with multi-engine and instrument ratings into the front seat of a Boeing. Delta or not, throwing bags would not ever get me on track to where I wanted to go.

When the call came to show up for orientation, I ignored it. I started on my IT career at that time, and have been very successful at it. Still trying to break into aviation, in 2001 I was >< <-- that close to being a first officer with ASA, until 9/11 happened. Still no closer now.

Over the years I wondered if I should have taken the Delta job, and worked my way up into management there. At least it would be in the industry. Your post, bad as the situation is for you, eases that bit of self-doubt for me. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

Good luck.

[MacDawg]

Sorry to hear about this but your attitude seems great. I admire you for that. I hope you keep a positive attitude and find what you are looking for.

Here I was all ready to start a thread that I was promoted to VP today and then I saw your thread.

Congrats!
No need to keep that news to yourself!!
That's awesome!

You should do some serious barking tonight!

Woof, Woof - Dawg

[MacDawg]

Delta. Gotta be.

Extends paw, bends at elbow and points to wet nose (as in charades).

Woof, Woof - Dawg

[emw]

This is truly sad news coming from someone that I've grown fond of interacting with here. Hopefully you'll still have time to come and keep us posted on events, and keep us hopping in the political forum.

What are your degrees in? What are you interests? Perhaps someone on the board will know of a position to help you out. I don't know what the policy is - and I know this isn't a job board - but I'm sure we'd be willing to help you and anyone else out that we've had some history with.

Edit: And your general location? I am assuming Atlanta, but could be anywhere "between the hedges"!

[aus_dave]

I'm not too good for the work, but I am getting too old to do this. :o Sorry to hear about losing your job. As you still have a job I guess the main worry is the demotion and pay cut :(. From the quote above I get the impression you aren't really looking forward to this.

Have you considered starting your own business or a total career change? As stubeef said, as a manager you have a range of skills to offer that you shouldn't discount so quickly. The hardest part about going back to a lower job is that it is difficult to maintain your enthusiasm (e.g. what position do you aspire to, your old one?).

Sometimes a change like this can be a blessing in disguise. If you like motivational books, read "Who Moved My Cheese?" by Spencer Johnson. It is a ridiculously simple book but it has a good message behind it.

Depending on your financial situation and responsibilities you might actually be better off emotionally and financially in a different environment.

[dotnina]

MacDawg -- Sorry man, this really sucks ... right around the holidays, too! On the bright side, you might be able to find extra temporary work right now if you end up needing it, since a lot of retailers are hiring for the shopping season. I know it's probably not the best thing, but it could be a brief diversion for you.

I hope you get back on your feet (paws?) soon. You definitely seem determined; I'm sure that'll help you immensely!

If you don't mind me asking, what's your Ph.D in? It's a shame that someone so well educated can't get a job to fully exercise their expertise. :(

[iJon]

Seven years ago I was in your position. I was 42, with a Bachelor's, Master's and Doctorate and couldn't get a job in a warehouse or doing anything.
Man, hearing that always feeds the back of my mind of just focusing more on my favorite skills and working with that in life. It's all around me everyday. For example, one of my co-workers. He works for my parents and is good at what he does, but it's just not the greatest thing in the world but he is doing what he loves on the side, and that is making music. He recently got in-touch with some people and is now producing a score for a new movie and looking at a pretty good pay check plus some recognition.

But in the long-run I'm sure it's more worth it to take advantage of my parents paying for college and get that education. Sorry to hear about your loss and hope everything works out, good to see you are happy for the holidays which is most important.

jon

[frescies]

Sounds like the typical sceen in America today, middle-class being forced into poverty. Post your bosses' emails and they will be SPAMed with porn, and maybe they will get the boot. :D

I am without work too. For the last two months I have been applying at every freaking job I can think of. I have even put is at restarants to wash dishes. Not one of the 22 restaurants I applied with has responded by phone, fax or email. An employment specialist with the state told me that my college education, Wed design, and intelligence was scaring off the restaurant owners who felt intimidated by my education. :rolleyes:

They told me to not attach a resume and not mention education beyond the 8th grade. :rolleyes:

The Starvation Army told me that they were not paying their Bell Ringers this year, so that was not an easy option.

No Web jobs except .Net, ASP, IIS, Java, C#; Two openings for Web Developers, but no entry - intermediate Web designers.

I am going to apply at a taxi dispatch with an 8 - 10 an hour wage, this should be interesting.

On the bright side, my friend has offered to pay for 3-6 credits of online classes with The University of Alaska Southeast (http://www.uas.alaska.edu) so I can finish a certificate in M$ Office and take the computer math class (covers binary, decimal, logic, database math, hexadecimal, etc). Hopefully with the certificate in MS Office that will get me a mundane job as an admin assistant, typing in Word and doing some Excel and data entry.

Best of luck to you my friend! :)

Welcome to "voodoo economics"! But don't thank me for 4 more years of it....

eh....

Ok no politics.


It's a frustrating economy indeed... my condolences are ample.

[StarbucksSam]

I am SO sorry for your loss. That is just horrible. If it's any consolation, I'd pay twice as much for my airline tickets if you could keep your job. Man.

[saabmp3]

42 is the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

That sucks... when I graduate HS in 2 years is this something I get to look forward to?

No, not yet. With a HS degree you'll be under qualified for most positions. Anyways, look forward to college. The best 7 years of your life ;)

I am SO sorry for your loss. That is just horrible. If it's any consolation, I'd pay twice as much for my airline tickets if you could keep your job. Man.

No you wouldn't. Maybe the first time, but try doing it 10 times a year. Unfourtunally, that's the cost cutting world we live in. If somebody else can offer a service of comparable value for half the price, don't expect the competition to be in business much longer unless they can distinguish themselves in some way.

BEN

[18thTomorrow]

My sympathies, mate. That really, totally sucks.

[748s]

There were people on the floor crying and cursing, but I was walking around with a smile, saying goodbye to friends and encouraging them.
Woof, Woof - Dawg

good attitude. you have been presented with an opportunity for change. your words are saying the future is bigger,better and brighter. go for it!

[jsw]

Sorry, I just saw this. I'm happy that you're in a relatively good position financially - many who lose their jobs need to forfeit much that they enjoy about life. I'm very sorry about the extended hours and effort that will be required now.

I know that, often, spending enough time in a position or company makes it seem as though that is the only place or job for you. Would you mind sharing your educational background and/or interests? I assume you're intending to stay where you live now - is moving an option?

I wish you the best of luck. While there probably isn't much we can do, I'm sure the MR community will do what it can to help, myself included.

[palusami]

How right you are!!
One thing I won't feel bad about is turning in my XP laptop!!
Piece of crap! Had to do most of my work at home on my iMac!

I'm not down, I've been expecting this for the last 2 months.
I've actually missed the guys (and gals) out on the ramp.
They are quite the characters.

No, this won't get me down. Sure, it hurts when you get punched in the mouth, but you spit the blood and bits of broken tooth out of your mouth, wipe it on your sleeve and then smile and say, "c'mon, is that all you've got!"

There were people on the floor crying and cursing, but I was walking around with a smile, saying goodbye to friends and encouraging them.

My lifestyle will have to adjust, but that's OK
Like you said, they can take away my job, but they can't touch my Mac!!

Woof, Woof - Dawg

good attitude dawg! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF!ARF!ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! ARF! (you get my point ;))

[Mechcozmo]

No, not yet. With a HS degree you'll be under qualified for most positions. Anyways, look forward to college. The best 7 years of your life ;)

Haha... this is great, because I'm studying for a history test right now... the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, right?
;)

MacDawg, just jump over whatever hurdles life throws at you. "Bound, bound, bound and rebound" to quote the great North American Jackalope.

[Awimoway]

Sounds like the typical sceen in America today, middle-class being forced into poverty.

I could not agree more. Sorry to hear about your news MacDawg. Your optimism in spite of it all really impresses me.

[munkle]

Sorry to hear your news Dawg but as many others have said your attitude is inspirational.

[mymemory]

I am on it right now, is a book about what the rich parents tell to their children that regular mid class father do not. In other words is describing the same case that our friend here "the system is educating us to get a job and work for the rest of our life instead of telling us to learn an make other work for us"

Rich Dad, Poor Dad (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0446677450/103-2978871-8789433?v=glance)

Good luck.

[oldschool]

Haha... this is great, because I'm studying for a history test right now... the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, right?
;)

MacDawg, just jump over whatever hurdles life throws at you. "Bound, bound, bound and rebound" to quote the great North American Jackalope.


uhh yeah they did bomb pearl harboUr why the winky face?

[rdowns]

uhh yeah they did bomb pearl harboUr why the winky face?

Words escape me at the moment. :rolleyes:

[virividox]

sorry to here u got cut. good luck finding a new job if u chose to leave the baggage handling one

[munkle]

Words escape me at the moment. :rolleyes:

I think it's a joke. At least I'm hoping it's a joke... :eek: :p

[Chip NoVaMac]

That's why I feel fortunate to have a job at all, even though it is around $10/hr. Seven years ago I was in your position. I was 42, with a Bachelor's, Master's and Doctorate and couldn't get a job in a warehouse or doing anything. Nobody would talk to me, but would interview and hire kids just out of HS.

My brother-in-law got me a job at the airline, stacking bags for $9, and I eventually moved up to the training department and then into Project Management.

Alas, I have come full circle, but I am grateful to have a job to report to on Monday. And, I have gotten my son through college and he will get his Master's in May. My daughter finishes her Bachelor's in May too, so I don't have that to worry about.

I am really blessed... no doubt.
I have my health (though I'm overweight... but that won't last long now)
I have my kids through college (almost)
I don't have any debt but my house (12 more yrs) once I sell my truck.

Best of luck to you during this holiday season my friend.
My thoughts and prayers will be with you.

Woof, Woof (tail tucked between my legs though)- Dawg

Thoughts and prayers to you too.

Like my other half, you are at a tough age for looking for new work. He has been bouncing between temp jobs for the last 5 months, earning about 40% less.

Like us, hope that you find this challenge a renewal of spirit and faith.

PS- Hope you find away to keep your ride. Maybe you refinance to lower payments.

[Chip NoVaMac]

It sort of sucks the way these companies time the reductions if force, it's the holiday.

But Wallstreet keeps rewarding this behavior.

Sucks when it's either, can't hire enough one year, and can't fire enough the next.

Yep.. its about making year end numbers look good.

I am old enough to remember when stocks went down with a layoff...

[blackfox]

So sorry to hear MD, I was wondering if the hammer was going to drop on you. Like many others have said, your attitude is excellent, even if you are just keeping a stiff upper lip.

Is it out of the question to look at comparable positions with other airlines? I know a few are actually making money (like SW and some other budget carriers), perhaps they might be interested? What airport do you service? Atlanta? something smaller?

I wish you the best in any case, and will miss your contributions around here. FWIW, I have horror stories of my own to do with employment, kinda reflects the true nature of the job market, regardless of what the papers say.

regards

Blackfox

[Squire]

(I haven't read the whole thread but I thought I'd post anyway.)

First of all, Dawg that's really unfortunate. Just try to keep a good attitude, I guess, and maybe you'll be on your way up again.

Last week I purchased plane tickets for my family (wife+3-year old son+2-year old daughter+me). They were over 6 thousand dollars all totaled. I sort of vented to my friend that, for 6 grand, you'd think we'd get 4 seats-- we only get three. After that, we both sort of shrugged and said, "Well, the airlines aren't making any money, so..."

Again, sorry to hear of your misfortune.

Squire

[jxyama]

sorry to hear. :(

i am looking for a new job, as i'm leaving my current job in feb. it looks tough out there... i also have a PhD but not very applicable, since i'm looking to leave the academia.

i think the reason entry jobs shy away from applicants with advanced degree is that they may get bored and not work as hard, or quit at a moment's notice if they locate alternate job...

in any case, congrats on your children. putting two kids through college is no small task. and i think you have a good attitude - i'm sure things will turn your way in the future. good luck.

[eRondeau]

I just got back from a "Train the Trainers" conference. From what I've seen lately, TRAINING is the buzzword of the decade. A good corporate trainer can train just about anybody in just about any topic -- the mechanics are the same. Maybe you should become a "Training Consultant" and market your skills to smaller companies who can't afford their own departments? It's all about managing liability. When the lawsuit happens, the first thing the lawyers look at was how well the company trained their workers.

This could be a great opportunity in disguise.

[JesseJames]

Just think, the bloodbath will only continue with W. Bush in the White House.
Let's hear it for the American voter. Bunch of imbeciles.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Just think, the bloodbath will only continue with W. Bush in the White House.
Let's hear it for the American voter. Bunch of imbeciles.

Let's try and keep this thread out of the Political Forum.

What we are seeing today is something that has been building slowly for some 25+ years. So to blame one president is not totally fair.

[Inkmonkey]

Just think, the bloodbath will only continue with W. Bush in the White House.
Let's hear it for the American voter. Bunch of imbeciles.

Great Political Primates! Let's hear it for trying to get this thread closed down. Those comments are best brought up elsewhere.

[Inkmonkey]

Holy Working Woolly Monkeys! Hey Dawg. Long time no post together.
Sorry to hear about your luck. I'm in a similiar boat. Getting laid off at the end of the year. Thankfully I am getting a fair severance and like yourself we haven't overextended our credit. So I'm not feeling too bad about it either. I'm actually looking forward to it as I've hated my job for much too long.
Best of luck in bouncing back.

[jefhatfield]

Lost my job today. :(
The nature of the beast in the airline industry.

My job was eliminated, but fortunately I had 'roll back' rights.
So, I am able to leave my Project Manager job and head for the "front line" again, from whence I came once upon a time.

I was told to report to the "ramp" as a baggage handler on Monday or I could leave the company. My boss's boss wasn't so lucky. He had 28 years with the company and was age 50. They took his ID and said have a nice life. Right now it is a blood bath, and it all came down after 4:00 p.m., so I haven't heard about all my 'buddies' and where they fell on the sword. Some were out of town.

So, its back out into the cold in the winter, the rain in the fall and spring, and the blazing sun in the summer to stack luggage (we just call them bags) in the belly of an airplane. Rotating days off, working on holidays, probably evening shift. I'm not too good for the work, but I am getting too old to do this. :o

How about the rest of you?
Anybody else lost their job lately?
I feel for you... and my heart goes out to you.

I'll be spending a lot less time with y'all now.
I'll have to work a lot of overtime to make up for the 45% pay cut I'll be taking. It will mean 12 hour days and working one of my off days, as long as the work if available. If not, it will mean a real second job.

I'll have to say goodbye to my 2002 Ford F-150, the first decent vehicle I've had in ages. Just got it last year when I got a promotion and took my '85 Subaru to the junk yard for $25.

Anyways... Merry Christmas to all!

Whimper, Whimper - Dawg

sorry to hear that...i feel for you

i know what you are going through...not that i have been in the airline industry but i have lived most of my life in a small resort town (pop 1,900) and i was involved in the dot.com and computer industry...so believe me, i can relate

in some areas of the country and some industries, things are going really well, but for most of us in america at least, the economy now is not the same as it was through most of the 80s and 90s

the good thing about you is that you are willing to take a lesser paying job with lesser status...all work is honorable...some people attain a level of pay or rank through 1) hard work, 2) education, and 3) luck but discount the last factor and when it runs out, they are stupefied and cannot function

the good thing living where i do, not near any big cities, is that it's not uncommon to see a bartender with two master's degrees, a young kid supervising college grads, or an ivy leaguer taking up prize fighting...the sooner one realizes that life is largely luck (what made us born human and not a frog?) and that it makes the most sense not to take layoffs and demotions so personally

[pseudobrit]

It's happened to me twice in the past three years.

Two years ago, I was laid off on Christmas Day.

If all else fails, you could go postal on the gutless bastards (They'll never see it coming if you keep that positive façade up).

[zelmo]

'Dawg, I just found this thread, and am sorry to hear of your unfortunate circumstances and also very happy to see you retaining that positive attitude of yours. That's a tough demotion to take, ending up right where you were after seven years of hard work, but it sounds like many others around you weren't even that fortunate.
I hope things work out for you. If there is any justice at all, someone with your education, experience, and attitude is not going to be tossing around bags fo long.

We'll be thinking about you and yours this holiday season.

Keep your ears perked, your tail waggin', and find yourself a warm leg to hump (just not mine)!

[pseudobrit]

find yourself a warm leg to hump (just not mine)!

I'd find the cold leg of an executive who swung the axe on which to piss.

[zelmo]

It's happened to me twice in the past three years.

Two years ago, I was laid off on Christmas Day.

If all else fails, you could go postal on the gutless bastards (They'll never see it coming if you keep that positive façade up).

Gutless bastards? Gee, thanks. I have been laid off before, and that sucked big time, but being the one pulling the trigger isn't exactly fun, either.
I work in management, and I have to tell you it is a bad feeling when the big boss says it's time for the L-word. When the decision you are making has such dramatic and long lasting effects on the livelihood of people you work side by side with for years, it feels pretty miserable. I know it keeps me awake nights. Just the thought of looking a co-worker (and usually a friend, too) in the eye and telling them they are losing their job, man...it puts a knot in my gut. Oh wait, I forgot...I'm gutless.
I'm not comparing it in any way to the shock and pain of losing your job, but if you think management goes back to the office chuckling and high-fivin' each other after a layoff, you are way wrong. It's not the worst end of this particular stick, but that doesn't make it an easy gig.

[rueyeet]

I've noticed that these things go in cycles, and the more short-sighted the company, the shorter those cycles are. Half the time, they lay people off to meet some arbitrary cost-savings target, then flush with the extra budget, they notice that they haven't got enough staff to keep functioning, and frantically go on a hiring spree.

And yes, Wall Street these days is full of the kind of hyper mass hysteria mentality that rewards this behavior. Idjits.

Our company's in progress of making a round of layoffs; so far the managers of my business unit have avoided pink slips by cutting our ad budget, but they may still have to make cuts. Fortunately the company's fond of us analyst-types right now....

[Chip NoVaMac]

Gutless bastards? Gee, thanks. I have been laid off before, and that sucked big time, but being the one pulling the trigger isn't exactly fun, either.
I work in management, and I have to tell you it is a bad feeling when the big boss says it's time for the L-word. When the decision you are making has such dramatic and long lasting effects on the livelihood of people you work side by side with for years, it feels pretty miserable. I know it keeps me awake nights. Just the thought of looking a co-worker (and usually a friend, too) in the eye and telling them they are losing their job, man...it puts a knot in my gut. Oh wait, I forgot...I'm gutless.
I'm not comparing it in any way to the shock and pain of losing your job, but if you think management goes back to the office chuckling and high-fivin' each other after a layoff, you are way wrong. It's not the worst end of this particular stick, but that doesn't make it an easy gig.

I hear you, but how many "exec's" that "pull the trigger" (from the top down) end up with their income cut in half? How many CEO's have to sell their Jag? Keep in mind I have been in your shoes, and it is not easy. Kind of hard to come in after the blood letting and see the guy that had the brain storm, roll up in a new luxury SUV. :eek:

It is a crime what those that make the initial decision make each year, good or bad performance wise.

[MacFan26]

well, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Yay for the U.S. :(

I'm sorry to hear the bad news, it's great that you're thinking positive though, I'm sure it will eventually work out. I'm in college, getting a degree that might end up not letting me get a job, lol, wonderful.

[jefhatfield]

I'd find the cold leg of an executive who swung the axe on which to piss.

pissing and shooting are just plain bad...become a lawyer/paralegal/assistant for an employment law/labor law firm...i am going to quit being a pc techie and actually go out and help someone (less fortunate than me) for a change

in this recession, i have seen employer abuses once too many times

[virividox]

i dont think macdawg would pull a trigger or piss on anybody. he has teh right attitude about this whole thing.

[Mr_Ed]

Very sorry to hear about this, MacDawg. All I can tell you is, with the way things are in terms of the job market, BE PATIENT if you do decide to quit and/or look for another job. You might find a good position right away or it could take several months. Something will come your way. If at all possible, don't sell yourself short by hastily jumping on the first thing that comes along. Think every opportunity through before you decide what to do.

I just started a new job after being off for about 5 months. I was doing software contract work and you always expect and plan for some down time but I have to say it was still kind of difficult to find a good job, at least where I live. I was not willing to travel out of town as I had done for the last 5 years and the local market for software development types isn't so great. I got a lot of calls/emails from people wanting to fill contract positions in other cities. I have to admit the more time passed without a job, the more attractive those positions looked but I forced myself to hold out "just a little longer." In the end, I landed a position doing something exciting (from a software geek's point of view, anyway :D) in a company that is an easy 15 minute drive from my home. I could not ask for anything better and I know if I had jumped on some of those out of town positions, I would certainly be earning a living, but I WOULD BE COMPLETELY MISERABLE right now. TRY TO HANG IN THERE!!

[Mechcozmo]

...the sooner one realizes that life is largely luck (what made us born human and not a frog?)

Your parents? :rolleyes:
But I see what you mean-- our consciousness. Well, here is to hoping I don't get reincarnated as a rock. Cheers! ;)

[Xtremehkr]

Sorry to hear about that Dawg. It happened to me in August, my company got no new bids awarded and are hurting still. But it wasn't hard to find something new, here in cali at least. I wouldn't be put off by this, maybe it is time for something new anyway. I don't have as much riding on my job yet, but it was still a bummer to leave a company I had become established with. I like my new job better though.

Keep trying though, there is always something out there.

[mactastic]

Sucks to hear 'Dawg. Hell of a way to head into Christmas. Something better will come along though, usually stuff like this has a way of working out for the better after a while. If you had some building skills I could probably put you to work out here. A couple of my subs aren't exactly cuttin' the mustard so to speak, but that's neither here nor there.

You'll land on your feet.... Oh wait that's a cat! But hopefully you'll be OK anyway.

[MacDawg]

Thank you to everyone for your concern and your best wishes. I truly appreciate your kindness and your thoughts. It was encouraging to read these posts, and to see such a warm response from so many from such different backgrounds.

Today continued the carnage, and several more of my coworkers were either let go, or returned to the front line. The bleeding finally stopped after lunch today.

I was stripped of my ID, my computer (good riddance), my Corporate card, my pager, everything. Somewhat demoralizing to be considered one of the ones that didn't quite make the grade. But, I have to focus on the many positives that are still there. Besides, the haven't touched anything that is important to me yet... I still have my wife, my kids, and my iMac!

I don't blame any one person or thing for the state of the airline industry. The economy, 9/11, security, fuel prices, bad decisions, greedy management, and many other issues have conspired together to create the environment we have in the industry.

I appreciate the suggestions everyone has given. They are thoughtful and helpful. Right now I am weighing certain options. One is to pursue other companies as a corporate trainer. I have a lot of background in education having taught in Jr. High, HS and college and having been a school administrator. Much of my time with the airline was spent in the training department as a facilitator as well.

However, I have to consider my age and my time with the company. If I stay 2 more years, I will have 10 years at age 52. This gives me very small pension, but more importantly it gives me and my family flight privileges for life. That's a pretty significant bogey for me seeing as how my kids use these flight privileges a lot and the wife thinks its pretty important for them to be able to come and go. :)

Anyway, I appreciate the words you have given me from your hearts. They have been a great comfort and encouragement. Don't ever take for granted the role you play in the life of others.

For those of you who have expressed that you are in similar situations, hang in there. My heart goes out to you and my prayers are with you, especially through the holidays.

Thanks again.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

[dobbin]

With an attitude like that, I have no doubt that you will soon be on your way up again, either within that company or maybe elsewhere?

I guess that after getting rid of so many people there will be opportunities again soon as some people who are left will want to leave. I hope you can get back up there and fill their shoes.

Good luck MacDawg, I hope things work out well for you soon.

[paxtonandrew]

Well MacDawg, there isn't much to say that hasn't already been said. I fortunately have never been in the position to be retrenched, but know plenty who have, and many in the fickle Airline industry. In Australia, one of our major air-lines (Ansett) went into receivership, and 25,000 people lost their jobs, and many of them haven't even seen their severance pay, even though it has been about 3 years since the company folded. We have to pay a $10 levy on all of our air tickets now to pay for these people, which is going into the government coffers, instead of where it is needed, in the pockets of those workers. </political rant>

MD, you have shown great strength to be able to return to the front line, and do the job that I as a passenger takes for granted, and load the airplane with baggage. I wish you all the luck in the world, and remember, you will return to the position you were once in, it may take a little while, but when it does, you will realize the experiences in baggage made you realize how lucky you are to have a job, when so many people in this world go without.

Congratulations on the spirit and determination, and we hope not to loose such a valuable member of the Mac community.

[Chip NoVaMac]

'Dawg - I can see the reason for hanging on there.

Given your education background, after you pass the two year mark with that airline, you could go back to teaching. It may mean relocating (don't know if you all have a shortage of teachers where you live, I know we need many more teachers here in the DC area).

You attitude is an inspiration for many, myself included. I use to sell computers to the Gov't for 10 years. 5 layoffs/company closings in that time made me change my outlook.

After my last layoff I read that when dusting off the resume, it is time to look at where you were happiest. Not necessarily the "richest". For me it was in retail and in photography. 5 years later, I am still with the shop that hired me after my layoff. And I have moved from a poorly paid grunt (my layoff happened at Thanksgiving, and I guess they didn't think that I would stick around after the first of the year), to be a key member of the marketing department.

[LethalWolfe]

MD, my thoughts and prayers are with you man. Although not in the same point of life you are in, I had a long two year stretch where I was employed as much as I was unemployed (including a out-of-left field layoff the week before Xmas one year).

Good luck and keep stayin' positive. :)


Lethal

[makisushi]

I'd find the cold leg of an executive who swung the axe on which to piss.

Why is there so much animosty towards executives that have to lay people off?

It is almost like you guys are saying it is bad to be successful.
I just don't get it.


MacDawg, Keep up the good attitude and you will prevail

[jefhatfield]

Why is there so much animosty towards executives that have to lay people off?

It is almost like you guys are saying it is bad to be successful.
I just don't get it.


MacDawg, Keep up the good attitude and you will prevail


sometimes an organization has to lay people off to save the organization from bankruptcy...i am chairman of the board of a non profit and we went from 19 to 7 people...it had to be done


but sometimes leaders lay off due to greed and that's bad

[Chip NoVaMac]

Why is there so much animosty towards executives that have to lay people off?

It is almost like you guys are saying it is bad to be successful.
I just don't get it.

Success is not wrong, but at the expense that gave you the success is. Multi-million dollar salaries are wrong. I don't see any CEO taking a huge pay cut, so deep that they have to go work at Walmart to make ends meet.

Layoffs for the most part benefit only those that already have made theirs. "Greed is good" is not a mantra that should be followed. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is.

In MD's case, they were hoping that MD would just leave. In the end saving them money in the future. MD showed them that he will no go gently.

It is as if some of you are saying it is ok to screw the workers that truly add to the bottom line, as long as you can have the McMansions, the Mega SUVs, and all the other "perks" of success.

[stubeeef]

Chip, you are mostly dead on.

I think that top corp compensation is out of control. It seems that many of these guys stick in a board that is really a hunta. They rape and pilage for them selves at the expense of the shareholders as well as the employees. I know that the system does eventually catch up and root'em out, but usually after the damage is done. I would like to see this kind of worldcom, enron style governace STRICKLY penalized when found, take 130% of all compensation given over their term would not bother me.

On the other side, when you see management and blue collar layoffs with the people left sucking up huge paycuts, it might mean It was a fair deal. Of course fair deal matters which side of the layoff you are.

[pseudobrit]

Why is there so much animosty towards executives that have to lay people off?

It is almost like you guys are saying it is bad to be successful.
I just don't get it.

When the executives screw up, other people lose their jobs.

It's the opposite of responsibility.

[saabmp3]

When the executives screw up, other people lose their jobs.

It's the opposite of responsibility.

I just want to put a note in here. Executives play an 80% role in the success of a company. That's why Steve Jobs gets paid so much in compensation benefits.

Alot of high up execs are getting the boot now a days too when a company starts going down the tube.

BEN

[jefhatfield]

When the executives screw up, other people lose their jobs.

It's the opposite of responsibility.

at one time, honor and resposibility were common in corporate america

but now things are fickle and boards and stockholders dump execs for no good reason and any exec usually does not have a good prognosis

so due to the sour prognosis of corporate leaders, the corporate leader only has one option...get high pay for a short period of time because a short period of time is most likely all they have

it's a vicious cycle and it hurts the workers, stockholders, and corporate leaders like CEOs, presidents, and senior VPs...it's a faulty system, not a small, corrupt cadre of senior management out to fire workers for the fun of it

american companies should be wiping out the european and japanese competition, but they aren't due to american corporate greed...like i said some corporate layoffs are justified, but many are not and it hurts the entire company...too many shoddy goods are still coming out of the us to cut corners and not because we don't have the technology, but to pad the checks of many american higher execs...and many american companies are shipping too much work to china and india while laying off thousands of us workers...it's ok to ship some work off, but come on mr. american ceo!!

for that reason, i have decided to avoid buying american goods, except for apple ( ;) )...heck, most american goods i see in the stores not even made in america anymore

i would love to see an america where american goods can largely be made by american hands and that the american ceo and senior management make a decent living, but not a kingly yearly salary and bonuses...heck, even steroid enhanced baseball players deserve their millions more in my eyes

[stubeeef]

I just want to put a note in here. Executives play an 80% role in the success of a company. That's why Steve Jobs gets paid so much in compensation benefits.

Alot of high up execs are getting the boot now a days too when a company starts going down the tube.

BEN

you are right, it is just some of them are out of control. Krispy Kreme is a great example. A small company with 30 million in jets, flt dept budget near 4 million. They don't clear 12 million a year now. The biggest one a falcon 900 is to get the ceo to australia and/asia. TAKE A COMMERCIAL FLIGHT FIRST CLASS - $5000. FLY THE JET NEARLY $50,000 ON ONE ROUND TRIP. THEY EVEN HAVE TO FLY PILOTS OUT COMMERCIALLY TO HAWAII TO DO THE SECOND HALF OF THE RUN TO AUST. WHILE THE OTHER PILOTS LOUNGE IN HI FOR A WEEK AT WHAT COST! IT IS THOSE EXCESS THAT ARE CRIMINAL TO THE STOCK HOLDER. BUT GUESS WHAT, IN THIS AGE OF REFORM KK CEO IS ALSO CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD!

I am a capitalist, a business major, and a small business owner. I am aware that the best and the brightest command the $ just like in sports. But it doesn't mean that they should not be criminally liable for avarice and greed, as they pilfer the coffers for themselves. It is no different than the secretary that is fired for making personal copies on the company machine, or personal long distance calls or using the company car to swing by and get the dry cleaning. Actually it is different in one way, it can mount to millions of SHAREHOLDER money real fast.

[Les Kern]

I was JUST talking about this today with my assistant. We were relating stories of our friends that were "downsized". One went from 70K to 25K. One went from 50K to freakin' Wal-Mart. I'm SICK of what's happening to the middle class in this country. The corporate drive for shareholder profits ahead of the folks that work for them is beyond disgusting, beyond immoral. We also counted our blessings since we're in education technology. Though not completely immune, we're safer than "civilians". Plus, nobody, not even god, knows the damn passwords to all the servers :)
I was laid off years ago before this job, and did what I needed to do. I even tossed pizza's for 7 an hour cash. AND I was recently married.
You'll do fine, and our best to you.

[MacFan26]

The corporate drive for shareholder profits ahead of the folks that work for them is beyond disgusting, beyond immoral.
Oh, but this country is so moral now :mad:
I agree with you, the middle class that is "us" is only an illusion and has been for quite a while, unfortunately. ...has anyone happened to have read Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich? I'd recommend it.

[MacDawg]

I don't think the situation the airline industry finds itself in is due to any one factor.

Sure there has been corporate greed. Our CEO and his hand picked leadership team from outside the company exited with their executive compensation packages that devastated and demoralized the company.

But there has been greed from those within the company as well when the pilots union (not necessarily individual pilots) holds the company hostage to a contract. After 9/11 every other airline renegotiated its contracts, but our pilots did not. They were the highest paid before 9/11 and continued to take significant raises specified in the contract after 9/11, even when the rest of the employees were taking cuts.

And front line agents have contributed to the problems as well, by not delivering the customer service that such a competitive industry demands.

But fuel prices are also at all time highs forcing our company to spend a full billion dollar$ more for fuel this year. (Lets please not discuss the politics in this thread). So factors outside the company have helped to create the challenges we face.

It is easy to target 9/11 as the problem for the airlines, but they were in trouble even prior to 9/11 as competition from low cost carriers increased. A total rethinking and restructuring of the industry is necessary, and our company is doing that.

I just happen to be one of the casualties of the restructuring that will hopefully make the company viable. Tough times call for tough decisions. I was not taken by surprise, but I was disappointed in the way that it was communicated and handled. You may not be able to control the decision, but you can control how it is delivered.

Right now I am "on hold".
Nobody seems to know what it going on. I am to report on Monday for "further instructions". I hope that they get it right over the weekend.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

[wdlove]

I don't think the situation the airline industry finds itself in is due to any one factor.

Right now I am "on hold".
Nobody seems to know what it going on. I am to report on Monday for "further instructions". I hope that they get it right over the weekend.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

I will thinking about you tomorrow. Certainly hope that you will get your job back. It's even more painful to loose a job at this time of year. You might try praying about this situation also. Just go in with a positive attitude tomorrow. Will be looking forward to hear what happens.

[sebisworld]

Two years ago, I was laid off on Christmas Day.

That is just sick. Why would anyone do that? How long have you worked for the company?

[pseudobrit]

That is just sick. Why would anyone do that? How long have you worked for the company?

They wiped out the entire 3rd shift.

[pugboy87]

Lost my job today. :(
The nature of the beast in the airline industry.

My job was eliminated, but fortunately I had 'roll back' rights.
So, I am able to leave my Project Manager job and head for the "front line" again, from whence I came once upon a time.

I was told to report to the "ramp" as a baggage handler on Monday or I could leave the company. My boss's boss wasn't so lucky. He had 28 years with the company and was age 50. They took his ID and said have a nice life. Right now it is a blood bath, and it all came down after 4:00 p.m., so I haven't heard about all my 'buddies' and where they fell on the sword. Some were out of town.

So, its back out into the cold in the winter, the rain in the fall and spring, and the blazing sun in the summer to stack luggage (we just call them bags) in the belly of an airplane. Rotating days off, working on holidays, probably evening shift. I'm not too good for the work, but I am getting too old to do this. :o

How about the rest of you?
Anybody else lost their job lately?
I feel for you... and my heart goes out to you.

I'll be spending a lot less time with y'all now.
I'll have to work a lot of overtime to make up for the 45% pay cut I'll be taking. It will mean 12 hour days and working one of my off days, as long as the work if available. If not, it will mean a real second job.

I'll have to say goodbye to my 2002 Ford F-150, the first decent vehicle I've had in ages. Just got it last year when I got a promotion and took my '85 Subaru to the junk yard for $25.

Anyways... Merry Christmas to all!

Whimper, Whimper - Dawg

Sorry to hear about your job, if it makes you feel any better i lost my job recently. I walked out after me and my studio manager were hurled verbal abuse on a daily basis and treated like dirt and made to work stupid hours, its the first time i have been unemployed in 10 years. I work in the graphic design industry, it seems more and more employers want more out of people these days, what used to be 5 peoples jobs is now one persons job as most company bosses try to cut costs and make people do lots of other things to save money. The problem is that the people who own these comapny's are motivated by greed and money. These big bosses have no respect for the staff at all and treat them with no respect and they wonder why staff dont want to work over, or work a little harder. I say to all those big greedy bosses out there if you want respect from your staff you have to give it first......

[toaster_oven]

my hours were recently cut back (as in two days ago) - so now i'm only paid for 4 days of work instead of 5.

- i had been laid off twice in the past couple years and had been lucky to land this job - even if it is below what i should be earning. my work-load is well over the amount of time i'm getting paid for- and i can't see how my boss is expecting the same amount of work if he cuts back my hours...

-to

[jefhatfield]

Sorry to hear about your job, if it makes you feel any better i lost my job recently. I walked out after me and my studio manager were hurled verbal abuse on a daily basis and treated like dirt and made to work stupid hours, its the first time i have been unemployed in 10 years. I work in the graphic design industry, it seems more and more employers want more out of people these days, what used to be 5 peoples jobs is now one persons job as most company bosses try to cut costs and make people do lots of other things to save money. The problem is that the people who own these comapny's are motivated by greed and money. These big bosses have no respect for the staff at all and treat them with no respect and they wonder why staff dont want to work over, or work a little harder. I say to all those big greedy bosses out there if you want respect from your staff you have to give it first......

these are the signs of the times and it's unfortunate

the corporations, whether through the democrats or republicans-or both, have had it too easy and they think they can get away with more abuses...unions are at an all time low and they are not in the mix as much to balance working conditions

i urge anybody able to work to make things change back to a positive working environment...join the union, become an employment/labor lawyer or paralegal, or join a political action group concerned with these issues...if you are not in the field, give to the unions or causes that can help

people have no problem putting their time and money into saving the environment, protecting family values, helping the spca, etc...but we all need to make sure working conditions stay high like in the past

in the end, everybody wins (employees, employers, consumers) because happy workers and better conditions ultimately help the company that is producing the product/service

i feel so strongly (as i have mentioned before on these forums) that i am quitting being a computer techie after five years and have decided to get into the cause for employees and attain a career in the field of employment law

[Chip NoVaMac]

these are the signs of the times and it's unfortunate

the corporations, whether through the democrats or republicans-or both, have had it too easy and they think they can get away with more abuses...unions are at an all time low and they are not in the mix as much to balance working conditions

i urge anybody able to work to make things change back to a positive working environment...join the union, become an employment/labor lawyer or paralegal, or join a political action group concerned with these issues...if you are not in the field, give to the unions or causes that can help

people have no problem putting their time and money into saving the environment, protecting family values, helping the spca, etc...but we all need to make sure working conditions stay high like in the past

in the end, everybody wins (employees, employers, consumers) because happy workers and better conditions ultimately help the company that is producing the product/service

i feel so strongly (as i have mentioned before on these forums) that i am quitting being a computer techie after five years and have decided to get into the cause for employees and attain a career in the field of employment law

I think you have a point about unions. They need to change to meet the changing marketplace.

Something that I find interesting is that here in the US, we are so apathetic about the real issues. Other nations around the world have been able to send the message to employers through national strikes. Yet, not here in the US. Maybe it is that we are afraid of loosing our jumbo SUV's.

[jefhatfield]

I think you have a point about unions. They need to change to meet the changing marketplace.

Something that I find interesting is that here in the US, we are so apathetic about the real issues. Other nations around the world have been able to send the message to employers through national strikes. Yet, not here in the US. Maybe it is that we are afraid of loosing our jumbo SUV's.

our revolutions happen more subtlely...through major political shifts like clinton in 92, gingrich and his gop revolution two years later, bush coming into office on "family values" in 2000, and hopefully, god willing, the gop going out in 2008 due to "economic issues" or lack of them ;)

if things really get bad in one area or another, regular americans who usually don't give a damn about important issues will come out in droves and make a change

about suv's...i already see a backlash against them and people are trading in their gas guzzlers...right wingers because they don't want to fund al qaeda and left wingers because they don't want to pollute the environment

america is historically slow to act on important issues, but once america gets going, watch out...just look at world war II...hitler and tojo went as far as they could until something snapped (more than just pearl harbor, too)

bush got in on weak issues (WMDs, gay marriage, abortion...weak, yet passionate though) this time while he presided over four bad years in the economy (the biggest issue)...he downplayed our economic woes and slid by this time..but if the gop thinks they can fight foreign wars and appease the super wealthy while america goes down the tubes, then they are in for a big surprise in 2008, perhaps even in 2006

this kind of reminds me of vietnam...in the beginning, people didn't really care over here while many around the world were outraged...but as the picture became clearer, americans soon shared the outrage and the war came to an end...enough was enough

bush and company will see their support erode around them

[stubeeef]

In post #76 I was ranting about the CEO of Krispy Kreme, here is a great article on him. Made me lol. The sad part is the good people that work there, who are suffering from his piety, inability, and averice.

Voted Worse CEO in America! (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BB89707F9%2D8523%2D4C7F%2DAF96%2DE6C532C4B4BE%7D)


Oh ya, I was I was taxiing for takeoff this morning they landed, not in the little jet, but the 20 million dollar jet, and it turned out he was the only occupant! In corp aviation we call that a "Golden Barge".

[pugboy87]

these are the signs of the times and it's unfortunate

the corporations, whether through the democrats or republicans-or both, have had it too easy and they think they can get away with more abuses...unions are at an all time low and they are not in the mix as much to balance working conditions

i urge anybody able to work to make things change back to a positive working environment...join the union, become an employment/labor lawyer or paralegal, or join a political action group concerned with these issues...if you are not in the field, give to the unions or causes that can help

people have no problem putting their time and money into saving the environment, protecting family values, helping the spca, etc...but we all need to make sure working conditions stay high like in the past

in the end, everybody wins (employees, employers, consumers) because happy workers and better conditions ultimately help the company that is producing the product/service

i feel so strongly (as i have mentioned before on these forums) that i am quitting being a computer techie after five years and have decided to get into the cause for employees and attain a career in the field of employment law

I agree 100% if only the fat cats of these company's would realise this, life would be so much more productive and better for eveyone. What amazes me is that its so obvious to anyone with half a brain yet these bosses still dont see it...doh!!

[jefhatfield]

I agree 100% if only the fat cats of these company's would realise this, life would be so much more productive and better for eveyone. What amazes me is that its so obvious to anyone with half a brain yet these bosses still dont see it...doh!!

the fat cats may or may not know what they are doing is among the most evil acts of mankind...but i am not going to sit here and wait for them to grow a conscience

when i die i will stand before god and the first thing i can account for is who his son was, but i would also like to say i did some good for mankind and equalizing these fat cats is one thing i hope i can be proud of saying i did in my short stay on earth...so far what i have done in life was for me, but now i want to help others

some people do the obvious high profile good works like feed the poor and shelter the homeless, while others do important and necessary (and not so pretty chores/good) like remove hitler from power, patrol the streets as a cop, or ...he he...take out those fat cats...you can't kill them since they are not tin horn dictators with vicious armies marching across the continent, but one has to attack them where it hurts...in the pocketbook ;)

i am willing to make less in the legal field of employment law from now on than as a computer techie/engineer...it's not all about the money because doing good for your community should rank as high as making a good paycheck, if not higher

[JDar]

Maybe you can lead the organization of stockholders in companies with the fat cats at the top. There have been a few successful stockholder revolts in the past.

In the US looking at the heavy-at-the-top companies which are publicly held, there is an obligation for stockholders to do some homework and act.

Like voters on occasion, many are apathetic.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Hey 'Dawg,

There was great article in the Washington Post today about airlines and fares (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58326-2005Jan8.html).

Shame they don't show the graphics that they do in the print edition. They used 1978 as a baseline (just before deregulation). The gist was that we have seen just about 200% in a change of the consumer price index. This even holds true when looking at the cost of gasoline. What they did show is that many of the airlines unrestricted fares have gone up to 1000 to 2000% overt that time.