Moving to an SSD: Questions. [Archive]

Drummy

Aug 30, 2010, 03:41 PM

Hey guys just a couple questions for those among you who are familiar with the move to SSDs, not about SSDs themselves in particular but...well you'll see:

1) How much space does the OS occupy on a disk, just so I can get an idea of what the bear minimum SSD I'd need would be?

2)
a) Would simply selecting the new SSD as a start up disk, once it had been installed, move the whole OS to the SSD?

b) Would it also move the default folders (applications, videos, pictures, music)?

c) In fact could someone explain to me just how in the hell this transfer bit works?!?! Haha!

3) For audio work, would running active DAW projects on an SSD which is also running your OS and apps be quicker/less buggy than having a regular HDD dedicated to doing it?

4) I'm in the UK; any SSD recommendations?

Cheers!

reel2reel

Aug 30, 2010, 04:05 PM

I'd take a look through the numerous threads in this forum first to get an idea and some links to how-to's, but here's the basic idea:

You would want to either install the OS fresh to the SSD or copy your existing system over (using something like SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner). Ideally, you'd move only the system and applications, but not Home folders. If you copy your Home folder(s) to a 2nd (mechanical) disk, you free up a lot of space on the SSD and still get the benefits (faster boot, faster app launch) and will most likely extend the life of the SSD. The Home folder(s) would contain things like documents, movies, music, pictures.

System Preferences will only let you designate a drive with a valid OS to be your startup disk, so you won't be able to use the SSD as a startup until you've installed or copied a system onto it.

Hope that gets you started. I'm sure others will have more info, but there are a few recent threads on this topic with a lot of good stuff.

OptimusP83

Aug 30, 2010, 05:08 PM

Answer to 2: Buy an sled converter, so your ssd can slot into your mac pro like a normal sized HDD (SSDs are 2.5" drives, laptop sized, as opposed to the standard 3.5" desktop size) OWC sells come good ones.

Plug the drive into your mac using the internal SATA port. Fire up your computer, run Disk Utility and format the drive (HFS+).

Download Carbon Copy Cloner and clone your main boot drive over to the new SSD.

Go to system prefs and choose the new SSD disk as the startup drive, and restart. Easy as that.

strausd

Aug 30, 2010, 05:21 PM

Take a look at these posts:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=973851&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#2

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=979487&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#4

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=991654&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#5

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=999728&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#9

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1001280&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#10

Also, look at some of the other comments on those. But those specific posts should really help you out.

EDIT: And if you want to save a hard drive slot, you don't need a converter. I would suggest putting it in the empty optical bay (if you have an empty one) because that will save all 4 slots for mechanical drives.

dissolve

Aug 30, 2010, 05:25 PM

Answer to 1: Snow Leopard takes about 6GB I think. I'm using a 60GB SSD as a boot and applications drive. I've only used 20GB so far, although I installed a few larger games in my Home applications folder to save some space. Read some of the linked threads to see how to move your Home folder to a mechanical drive, which will allow you to get away with a smaller SSD.

Drummy

Aug 30, 2010, 06:24 PM

EDIT: And if you want to save a hard drive slot, you don't need a converter. I would suggest putting it in the empty optical bay (if you have an empty one) because that will save all 4 slots for mechanical drives.

Thanks for your help guys! I particularly interested in this. I've got a 64GB crucial SSD on the way, can I do this with that?

Also I'm having some thought's initially setting the computer up; thing I'm not sure about. When a new MacPro comes out of the box does it have anything pre-installed on the system/HDs, or is it all put on there when you use the disk to select the location for, and install OSX? My query being that, if before I've turned the thing on for the first time, I install the SSD, can I then start from scratch with my preferred configuration, select SSD as my OS drive and not have to transfer from another HDD later?

strausd

Aug 30, 2010, 06:41 PM

Thanks for your help guys! I particularly interested in this. I've got a 64GB crucial SSD on the way, can I do this with that?

Also I'm having some thought's initially setting the computer up; thing I'm not sure about. When a new MacPro comes out of the box does it have anything pre-installed on the system/HDs, or is it all put on there when you use the disk to select the location for, and install OSX? My query being that, if before I've turned the thing on for the first time, I install the SSD, can I then start from scratch with my preferred configuration, select SSD as my OS drive and not have to transfer from another HDD later?

First off, what model Mac Pro are you using?

Also, do you have a lot of stuff on your startup disk right now?

Do you have any other hard drives in your Mac Pro?

And do you want to move your home folder so it won't be on the SSD?

Drummy

Aug 30, 2010, 07:24 PM

First off, what model Mac Pro are you using?

Also, do you have a lot of stuff on your startup disk right now?

Do you have any other hard drives in your Mac Pro?

And do you want to move your home folder so it won't be on the SSD?

The model is the 6-Core 3.33GHz upgrade one of the recent updated 2010 single processor Mac Pros. It has also been upgraded to 8GB of ram and will have 3 Bays of 1TB HDDs and a 64GB SSD in the fourth for the boot disk (there's another question actually: will making it so that the SSD, seeings how it is the boot disk, uses bay 1, and moving the other 3 HDDs one along affect anything?)..

BUT...I don't even have it yet; I've ordered it and it will arrive before the middle of next week. I'm basically just trying to make getting the exact set up as painless a process as possible when the thing arrives. I will, as you suggested, be placing the home folder on a secondary drive (I've been searching around at how to do this, and since I'll have no data to be lost when I set that up it shouldn't be too risky, though a reiteration wouldn't hurt if you were gonna inform me of the process anyway...;)) and populating it by cherry-picking out of the gunky mess that is my MBP HD, making the SSD just a place for the OS and Apps.

strausd

Aug 30, 2010, 08:02 PM

The model is the 6-Core 3.33GHz upgrade one of the recent updated 2010 single processor Mac Pros. It has also been upgraded to 8GB of ram and will have 3 Bays of 1TB HDDs and a 64GB SSD in the fourth for the boot disk (there's another question actually: will making it so that the SSD, seeings how it is the boot disk, uses bay 1, and moving the other 3 HDDs one along affect anything?)..

BUT...I don't even have it yet; I've ordered it and it will arrive before the middle of next week. I'm basically just trying to make getting the exact set up as painless a process as possible when the thing arrives. I will, as you suggested, be placing the home folder on a secondary drive (I've been searching around at how to do this, and since I'll have no data to be lost when I set that up it shouldn't be too risky, though a reiteration wouldn't hurt if you were gonna inform me of the process anyway...;)) and populating it by cherry-picking out of the gunky mess that is my MBP HD, making the SSD just a place for the OS and Apps.

Alright thats good to know, pretty much the same situation that I was in.

Here what I did:

1. Put SSD in optical bay before turning computer on
2. Boot up and go through the setup process for OS X
3. Open disk utility, reformat SSD to Mac OS X Extended (Journaled)
4. Move home folder to a separate mechanical drive using these (http://chris.pirillo.com/how-to-move-the-home-folder-in-os-x-and-why/) instructions. (I recommend moving your home folder to a separate drive from the one you originally booted off of because it will make the setup of the SSD easier. The next step involves copying the original OS X drive to the SSD and it will be best if you do not have your home folder on the original so it won't be copied over to the SSD.)
5. Use Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper! to copy everything from the original drive to the new SSD
6. Once it is copied, go into system preferences > startup disk, and choose the SSD as your startup disk.
7. Reboot and finish installing your new apps

Also, make sure that the drive you put your home folder on has been reformatted for Mac OS X Extended (Journaled). If you are gonna use all your drives under OS X, I would recommend reformatting all of them. But if you are gonna use one for boot camp then don't format that drive.

Drummy

Aug 30, 2010, 09:43 PM

reel2reel

Aug 30, 2010, 10:29 PM

johnnymg

Aug 30, 2010, 10:35 PM

Warning, clicking and reading the following links may require...clicking and reading:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: .............. nice links.

strausd

Aug 30, 2010, 10:58 PM

Wow! That's really bloody helpful mate! Thank you so much! One thing though; I am very unfamiliar with the optical medium. I presume it's not the standard HD Bay...obviously haha... What can you tell me about it though? I'm mainly worried about how I connect my crucial 64GB SSD that I've just bought using optical. Do I need to get anything extra? Cheers!

You will not NEED anything, but some people like to have a mount. For cables, you do not need to buy any cables. The cable that the Mac Pro comes with to connect to the second optical drive (for those who need a second optical drive) will provide both data and power to the SSD. All you need to do is take out the optical bay enclosure and plug the SSD into the extra cable, that simple. If you wana see a video of someone working with the optical bay, check this (http://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos/macpro_2009_opt/) out. The only difference between this and using an SSD is that you will plug an SSD in instead of an optical drive. Also, you will not need to screw in the drive. Many people just let it sit there, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, if you want to be fancy and get a mount for the SSD in the optical bay, I would suggest this (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MM35A52CMB/). I got that just cause I felt like it haha. It does what its supposed to and will hold a normal 3.5" drive if you ever want to put one of those in there.

Edit: that is also talked about in the 3rd link I posted.

reel2reel

Aug 30, 2010, 11:37 PM

:rolleyes: .............. nice links.

You're missing the point. OP still won't click. See?

strausd

Aug 30, 2010, 11:40 PM

Haha, sorry. Just copy/pasted Straus' links. A search will work, I'm sure. :p

Haha all I did was a search to find some of my better posts on SSDs. There are A LOT of threads about them. And considering SSDs are pretty much the future, I think everybody should read what anandtech has to say about SSDs. It will take a while to read all of that, but its worth it.

reel2reel

Aug 30, 2010, 11:41 PM

:rolleyes: .............. nice links.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=973851&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#2

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=979487&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#4

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=991654&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#5

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=999728&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#9

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1001280&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#10

FWIW...

reel2reel

Aug 30, 2010, 11:42 PM

Haha all I did was a search to find some of my better posts on SSDs. There are A LOT of threads about them. And considering SSDs are pretty much the future, I think everybody should read what anandtech has to say about SSDs. It will take a while to read all of that, but its worth it.

I agree! I was trying to make a point about OP not bothering to read the links. Oh well, today will bring another new SSD thread.

reel2reel

Aug 30, 2010, 11:46 PM

If you wana see a video of someone working with the optical bay, check this (http://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos/macpro_2009_opt/) out.

OWC has amazing videos. Apple should try offering up a few of these. Oh wait...conflict of interest. Seriously, though, the videos are good.

Drummy

Aug 31, 2010, 04:01 AM

You will not NEED anything, but some people like to have a mount. For cables, you do not need to buy any cables. The cable that the Mac Pro comes with to connect to the second optical drive (for those who need a second optical drive) will provide both data and power to the SSD. All you need to do is take out the optical bay enclosure and plug the SSD into the extra cable, that simple. If you wana see a video of someone working with the optical bay, check this (http://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos/macpro_2009_opt/) out. The only difference between this and using an SSD is that you will plug an SSD in instead of an optical drive. Also, you will not need to screw in the drive. Many people just let it sit there, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, if you want to be fancy and get a mount for the SSD in the optical bay, I would suggest this (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MM35A52CMB/). I got that just cause I felt like it haha. It does what its supposed to and will hold a normal 3.5" drive if you ever want to put one of those in there.

Edit: that is also talked about in the 3rd link I posted.

Awesome! All understood now thanks. So are there any pro/cons of using the optical drive connection compared to using the regular drive bay connection? Also, what does the drive appear as in this configuration? Or is it just the same as if you plugged it into a drive bay? Cheers!

Also, is there any particular reason that, in your instructions you moved the home folder directory before copying everything to the SSD?

Drummy

Aug 31, 2010, 05:18 AM

I'm also wondering about what effects the speed of an SSD. If you have the applications and OS on the SSD I'm presuming that that's most of the battle? How do the speeds of opening a file from a separate HDD in an App on the SSD compare to opening a file from the SSD itself in an App that is also on the SSD in terms of speed?

johnnymg

Aug 31, 2010, 09:27 AM

snip..............

Oh well, today will bring another new SSD thread.

:) well said.

strausd

Aug 31, 2010, 10:43 AM

Awesome! All understood now thanks. So are there any pro/cons of using the optical drive connection compared to using the regular drive bay connection? Also, what does the drive appear as in this configuration? Or is it just the same as if you plugged it into a drive bay? Cheers!

Also, is there any particular reason that, in your instructions you moved the home folder directory before copying everything to the SSD?

Only pro is that you will save an extra HD bay for another drive. And yes, it will appear just like if it were plugged into a drive bay.

If you keep your home folder in the same place before copying everything over to the SSD, then the home folder will be moved to the SSD and take up space. Then when you delete it later, it will already have taken up space. Read this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1001280&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#10) post, it explains it really well.

I'm also wondering about what effects the speed of an SSD. If you have the applications and OS on the SSD I'm presuming that that's most of the battle? How do the speeds of opening a file from a separate HDD in an App on the SSD compare to opening a file from the SSD itself in an App that is also on the SSD in terms of speed?

If you move your home folder to another drive, the SSD will dramatically increase boot time and app load time. I have about 5 apps to start at login, and it takes like 10 seconds to login screen from chime, and once I log in, it takes barely a full second for all the apps to start.

If you open a file from the mechanical drive, it would be the normal speed of a mechanical drive. If you get a green drive, like the Western Digital Caviar Green, they spin at a slower rate, so it will take a bit longer. I would suggest a Caviar Black for your home folder and other files that you would want to open up, that is what I use.

If you open a file and that causes an app to open, like say a .psd, Photoshop will open extremely quickly and it will take a little bit longer for the file to show up, but not much, it really depends on what drive you use for storage.

jtoh

Aug 31, 2010, 11:25 AM

Hi,

I am thinking of getting a 6-core Mac Pro 3.33Ghz and I am thinking of installing 2 SSD drive in the 2nd optical drive bay. Is that possible? I understand that there is an extra SATA cable, but by any chance there is 2 extra?

Reason is OWC 40Gb SSD are now at $99.

--
jtoh

Drummy

Aug 31, 2010, 11:25 AM

Only pro is that you will save an extra HD bay for another drive. And yes, it will appear just like if it were plugged into a drive bay.

If you keep your home folder in the same place before copying everything over to the SSD, then the home folder will be moved to the SSD and take up space. Then when you delete it later, it will already have taken up space. Read this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1001280&highlight=mac+pro+ssd#10) post, it explains it really well.

If you move your home folder to another drive, the SSD will dramatically increase boot time and app load time. I have about 5 apps to start at login, and it takes like 10 seconds to login screen from chime, and once I log in, it takes barely a full second for all the apps to start.

If you open a file from the mechanical drive, it would be the normal speed of a mechanical drive. If you get a green drive, like the Western Digital Caviar Green, they spin at a slower rate, so it will take a bit longer. I would suggest a Caviar Black for your home folder and other files that you would want to open up, that is what I use.

If you open a file and that causes an app to open, like say a .psd, Photoshop will open extremely quickly and it will take a little bit longer for the file to show up, but not much, it really depends on what drive you use for storage.

Well explained! You really are extremely helpful so thanks for everything!

In terms of hard drives I've gone with the SSD and then 3 x 1TBs of whatever Apple use. My home folder will just go on one of them. Okay for speed?

Zoowatch

Aug 31, 2010, 11:48 AM

deconstruct60

Aug 31, 2010, 01:10 PM

Is there a way do a clean installation of Mac OS X on a SSD and designate the Home folder be installed on a secondary non-SSD hard drive?

On a clean installation there is nothing in the home folder since it just got created along with the install. ( It is quite easy to not migrate data from the old machinie; just don't do it. )

Now that clean install is done. remap "home" (which is mostly empty) somewhere else.

If trying to uses Apple's Migration tool before remapping because it may get confused ... just avoid it. That tool is the source of the problem in that case. Can do an rsynch (as superuser ) to copy into new home if Apple's tool is too dim to do it right later. Only have to make sure got the accounts user id numbers aligned on the new machine with the old ones. If only had one account that's trivial. If had Admin/Install and a user account a bit more work but not that hard.

This would save me from moving the Home folder from the SSD to another hard drive, so that it won't waste unwritten blocks on SSD.

SSDs with a even half way decent garabage collector aren't as fragile as some folks are making them out to be. Unless your home directory is 50% of the size of the entire drive this wouldn't be a huge deal even if it was "installed".

2contagious

Aug 31, 2010, 05:36 PM

I have a few questions:

1) I have a Mac Pro 6-core on order with 3GB RAM only. I'll be using it for Photoshop and Final Cut Pro. Would it be more beneficial for me as a first purchase to get a single stick of 8GB RAM (for now) or to get a 120GB SSD from OWC? Which one should I get first? SSD - to be able to install the system on it right away when the Mac Pro arrives - or RAM because 3GB will be to limiting? Considering I am usually not using several programs at once, the SSD should give me more of a speed increase, no?

2) Second question is about free space on the SSD. I've read a few times about Mac OS X being faster if there is a lot of free space on an HDD. Is this still true for SSDs?

3) Third question is about OWC's SSD models: Is the 60GB model any "worse" or slower than the 120GB model? (I've read about some speed differences with other makes)

see you,
2c

johnnymg

Aug 31, 2010, 06:09 PM

I have a few questions:

1) I have a Mac Pro 6-core on order with 3GB RAM only. I'll be using it for Photoshop and Final Cut Pro. Would it be more beneficial for me as a first purchase to get a single stick of 8GB RAM (for now) or to get a 120GB SSD from OWC? Which one should I get first? SSD - to be able to install the system on it right away when the Mac Pro arrives - or RAM because 3GB will be to limiting? Considering I am usually not using several programs at once, the SSD should give me more of a speed increase, no?
JMO, but I'd go for the SSD and add RAM later.

2) Second question is about free space on the SSD. I've read a few times about Mac OS X being faster if there is a lot of free space on an HDD. Is this still true for SSDs?
"A lot of free space" is the answer. How much is dependent on who you ask. I try to keep 50% free.

3) Third question is about OWC's SSD models: Is the 60GB model any "worse" or slower than the 120GB model? (I've read about some speed differences with other makes)
True: The Crucial drives are size/speed dependent. The tests I've seen of the OWC SSD's indicate this isn't an issue.

2contagious

Aug 31, 2010, 06:43 PM

Thanks for the answers :) For a Mac Pro, is the OWC SSD drive the best choice for a 120GB model?

strausd

Aug 31, 2010, 08:55 PM

Well explained! You really are extremely helpful so thanks for everything!

In terms of hard drives I've gone with the SSD and then 3 x 1TBs of whatever Apple use. My home folder will just go on one of them. Okay for speed?

Apple will give you Caviar Blacks, which are really good drives in my opinion. So ya, that should be fine.

Hi,

I am thinking of getting a 6-core Mac Pro 3.33Ghz and I am thinking of installing 2 SSD drive in the 2nd optical drive bay. Is that possible? I understand that there is an extra SATA cable, but by any chance there is 2 extra?

Reason is OWC 40Gb SSD are now at $99.

--
jtoh

It is physically possible to fit 2 SSDs in the empty optical bay, it is even physically possible to fit 8. The problem is that there is only one extra SATA port, so if you want more than one SSD in the empty bay, you will need a PCIe controller, SATA cables, and a splitter to provide power to both SSDs. Then you have to worry about the PCIe controller not working under Mac, or being rendered unusable after than OS X update. Also, you will need to find a good one that works well, not to mention you will have to spend more money on it.

Thanks for the answers :) For a Mac Pro, is the OWC SSD drive the best choice for a 120GB model?

Well the OCZ Vertex 2 is basically the same thing as the OWC SSD.

300D

Sep 1, 2010, 07:12 AM

1) How much space does the OS occupy on a disk, just so I can get an idea of what the bear minimum SSD I'd need would be?
Anything on the market will work.

2contagious

Sep 1, 2010, 08:23 AM

I don't know why, buy I had a dodgy feeling about the OCZ SSDs, so I went ahead and bought a 120GB OWC SSD.

jtoh

Sep 2, 2010, 11:04 AM

It is physically possible to fit 2 SSDs in the empty optical bay, it is even physically possible to fit 8. The problem is that there is only one extra SATA port, so if you want more than one SSD in the empty bay, you will need a PCIe controller, SATA cables, and a splitter to provide power to both SSDs. Then you have to worry about the PCIe controller not working under Mac, or being rendered unusable after than OS X update. Also, you will need to find a good one that works well, not to mention you will have to spend more money on it.

Thanks for the info. Looks like I will have to buy a bigger SSD then. I think the next best value OWC SDD is the 120Gb.