Uninterruptible Power Supply threads?

[Ravich]

Hi, I'm looking for threads where people have asked for advice about and discuss uninterruptible power supplies. Unfortunately, the nature of the abbreviation hasnt given me much luck. Anyone have some links they could share?

Thanks.

[popcorn-in-sac]

Hi, I'm looking for threads where people have asked for advice about and discuss uninterruptible power supplies. Unfortunately, the nature of the abbreviation hasnt given me much luck. Anyone have some links they could share?

Thanks.
Just saw one the other day on the Apple forums (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2556767&tstart=15).

[seek3r]

Hi, I'm looking for threads where people have asked for advice about and discuss uninterruptible power supplies. Unfortunately, the nature of the abbreviation hasnt given me much luck. Anyone have some links they could share?

Thanks.

I like APC UPSs, I've used them extensively in 4 OSs and in everything from personal use to large scale use in a machine room, so I'd recommend them! Whatever you buy, make sure it suits your needs in power capacity and draw

[alphaod]

You basically want one with a pure sine output.

[nanofrog]

You basically want one with a pure sine output.
Good advice. :)

OP:
Take a look at the UPS Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply), and pay close attention to the Double Conversion/Online type, as that's what we're talking about. ;) Line Interactive ( = switched + auto transformer on the AC side to assist with brown out conditions) can be used in a pinch, but it's not as good as the Online type (always runs from the battery = constant voltage to the devices attached).

As per manufacturers, I also recommend APC in the US. If your budget is tight, you can get them refurbished (just verify the model number is that of an Online unit, not something else). Line Interactive types are the bottom end of what you'd want to use. There is lower, but avoid those units like the proverbial Plague.

[Flash SWT]

Here is my Mac Pro UPS thread from a year ago:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=692097

I ended up with the APC BACK-UPS RS 1500VA LCD

.

[Ravich]

Thanks for the info everyone, this is very helpful. I also stumbled across this a couple of days ago and have been reading through it.

http://www.jetcafe.org/npc/doc/ups-faq.html

[Ravich]

How about this one?

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1500G



I am worried about fan noise because I will be doing music production on my Mac Pro, so that one was recommended to me as it doesnt have a fan. What are thoughts on that model? It isnt pure sinewave.... so would that leave it out of the question in your opinion?

[johnnymg]

I've been very pleased with the CyberPower 1500AVR UPS. Been running great for 5+ years.

If you want pure sine (not sure it's really needed) you'll have to spend a bit more. The 1KW Pro CyberPower unit is just over $300 at Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102050

[Ravich]

How do I tell whether they have a fan?

[johnnymg]

How do I tell whether they have a fan?

FWIW, the 1500AVR is dead silent................ :)

[nanofrog]

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1500G

I am worried about fan noise because I will be doing music production on my Mac Pro, so that one was recommended to me as it doesnt have a fan. What are thoughts on that model? It isnt pure sinewave.... so would that leave it out of the question in your opinion?
It at least has an auto transformer (called the AVR feature). Pure sine wave will prevent damage to the system's PSU (stepped waves can wreak havoc if there's too few steps to perform a good approximation, and it's an area corners may get cut to shave off costs). APC does better than most I've seen, but to be safe, go for pure sine wave.

As per the fan, it only kicks in when the battery is being used (cools the inverter, which generates heat when active). It's another area that costs can be lowered by using forced air cooling rather than large passive heatsinks.

The Online types are pricey when purchased new (example (http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-RT-1500VA-SURTA1500XL/dp/B000636JLU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1283319495&sr=8-1)), and the refurbished units (example (http://www.powersupersite.com/product-p/surta1500xl-u.htm)) can make a big difference in cost.

[diazj3]

I found these threads discussing the same issue, not too long ago...


Thread 1: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=818370
Thread 2: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=905368
Thread 3: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=896686


They might be helpful.

BTW, my APC Smart UPS 1500 is not noisy at all - only when power goes out and the UPS kicks in, the fans speed up and it plays an alarm so you save your work and shut down. Also, keep in mind you can keep the UPS far away from your recording setup to avoid any possible noise or interference you find with your microphones. The 1500 is more than capable to support a MP, 2-3 displays and some basic audio gear for 10-15 minutes.... I'd definitely would go with a Smart UPS if you have lots of high end audio gear: the quality of power is crucial in such setups.

Cheers!

[Transporteur]

I've got two APC BackUPS 650 for my server and Mac Pro peripherals and a SmartUPS 1400 for the Mac Pro itself.

All devices don't make any noise at all, the BackUPSes kind of buzzes though when the power is down and the SmartUPS has a very loud fan that kicks in.
But since a power out should be very rare (I had only one in 5 years due to a lightning bolt) that should hardly be a problem.

I've been using APC devices for roughly 10 years now and can absolutely recommend them. The BackUPS devices I've got are about 5 years old and still keep my server running for more than 10 minutes.

[wally21]

It at least has an auto transformer (called the AVR feature). Pure sine wave will prevent damage to the system's PSU (stepped waves can wreak havoc if there's too few steps to perform a good approximation, and it's an area corners may get cut to shave off costs). APC does better than most I've seen, but to be safe, go for pure sine wave.

As per the fan, it only kicks in when the battery is being used (cools the inverter, which generates heat when active). It's another area that costs can be lowered by using forced air cooling rather than large passive heatsinks.

The Online types are pricey when purchased new (example (http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-RT-1500VA-SURTA1500XL/dp/B000636JLU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1283319495&sr=8-1)), and the refurbished units (example (http://www.powersupersite.com/product-p/surta1500xl-u.htm)) can make a big difference in cost.

Hmmm...I'm a bit confused about the difference between the unit that you're showing and this one (http://www.amazon.com/APC-SUA1500-1500VA-Servers-Networks/dp/B00006BBK8)

They both have sine wave output, and I'll bet that a majority of people on this forum have the sua1500VA vs the surta1500XL.

Are you saying that the "Online" type that you show is constantly running off of the battery, while the regular smart-ups 1500 that I'm showing (and own) switches between running from regular AC and the battery for brown and black outs? And, the online type will keep my electrical equipment in better condition in the long run?

[nanofrog]

Hmmm...I'm a bit confused about the difference between the unit that you're showing and this one (http://www.amazon.com/APC-SUA1500-1500VA-Servers-Networks/dp/B00006BBK8)

They both have sine wave output, and I'll bet that a majority of people on this forum have the sua1500VA vs the surta1500XL.

Are you saying that the "Online" type that you show is constantly running off of the battery, while the regular smart-ups 1500 that I'm showing (and own) switches between running from regular AC and the battery for brown and black outs? And, the online type will keep my electrical equipment in better condition in the long run?
Don't panic, the SUA1500 is a good unit, and certainly suffice quite well. :) Also note the cost difference between the two units.

But it is a Line Interactive model, so it switches to the battery when needed. This means there is voltage variation to the system's PSU between when the auto transformer kicks in (undervolt conditions on the wall) and switches to the battery (when the auto transformer can no longer provide sufficient voltage to the system).

The SURTA1500XL is the Online model (for the same VA rating), and it does always run off of the battery. This means there's never any switching noise or voltage sag (computer never "sees" the variations on the wall - ever). As a result, it offers more protection from the wall (isolation).

BTW, of the current models, those that have XL at or near the end of the model number are the Online units (i.e. some might be ...XL1500L2U, where L2U = 2U rackmount_.

Also note the Surge suppression ratings, which are low. I use a good surge suppressor unit between the wall and UPS in order to get ~ 3k Joules + of protection (also protects the UPS). ;)

TrippLite is another good brand, and their Online units can be had for less. But the replacement batteries are more expensive (i.e. ~$175 vs. ~$75). Over its usable lifespan (say 10 - 12 years), and a 3yr MTBR for the batteries, it will add up and be closer to the total cost of the APC models if purchased new. But a refurbished APC will be cheaper (initial cost + replacement battery costs over time).

[Poob Bubes]

I got an APC SUA1500. I noticed in the UPS preferences in OS X, there is an option to enter sleep after so many minutes and also an option of when to shut down. I assume that if I enable the sleep option, the shutdown would never be initiated since it would be in sleep mode already. I currently have it set to never sleep and then to shut down when the UPS has 10% power remaining. Can anyone confirm this is correct?

Thanks.

[Ravich]

Does anyone have any recommendations for or against a refurbished UPS?

I mean, if I can get Smart UPS for 250$, why not?

The ones I've narrowed it down to are:

http://www.amazon.com/APC-BACK-UPS-BR1500LCD-1500VA-System/dp/B000NDA5E0/

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1500LCD

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1500G


All are in the ~200-250$ range.

[nanofrog]

Does anyone have any recommendations for or against a refurbished UPS?

I mean, if I can get Smart UPS for 250$, why not?

The ones I've narrowed it down to are:

http://www.amazon.com/APC-BACK-UPS-BR1500LCD-1500VA-System/dp/B000NDA5E0/

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1500LCD

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1500G


All are in the ~200-250$ range.
I don't have a problem with refurbished units (I actually use them when possible, as it does save money, and gets me a better UPS unit).

Of those listed, go for the 3rd, as it's a Smart UPS. It's a Line Interactive model (as are the others), but it has a pure sine wave output (others RS and XS do not). Their stepped waves are better than some vendors, but it's not as good as pure sine.

So for the same money, get the Smart UPS model.

[Ravich]

Well, that refurb is out of the question. 60$ shipping :\

[wally21]

^That's because its so darn heavy...it weighs twice as much as the other three units.

[Ravich]

Just saw this posted over on the Apple Mac Pro forums in another thread...

If you're going to get an APC UPS, you MUST get a Smart UPS product if you plan on using sleep mode. I have the largest Back UPS model made, and it just doesn't work.

If the UPS doesn't provide sine-wave power, when the power goes out, the UPS will wake the Mac up to shut it down. The UPS will not be able to support the power draw the instant the Mac wakes up, and will drop the power to the Mac, go into overload mode, and beep at you continuously until you manually shut it off.

If you leave the Mac awake all the time you'll be fine, but if you plan on allowing it to sleep, you must have sine-wave power to wake (or for that matter, power on) the Mac Pro.




...true?

[Ravich]

Anybody know? Also, excessups just emailed me asking why I didnt buy the refurbished smart APC UPS and I explained that I wasnt willing to pay 60$ for shipping, so they asked me if free shipping would work for me.

My gut says no because of the potential fan noise issues that I cant seem to get a solid report on, but does anyone know whether excessups is an okay reseller?

[wally21]

I don't know about excessups, but I don't think that the fan noise is much of an issue. I have the exact same model and I notice my computer fan noise much more than I notice the ups fan noise.

[SnoFlo]

Yes, that quote is true, at least in my experience. I scrape by with an APC 1050 which works fine when power goes out with the computer on but cannot muster the juice to wake the Mac Pro in sleep mode to shut it down.

There is also a bug in my model/Mac Pro USB interaction whereby the unit will switch to battery power and attempt to wake a sleeping Mac Pro even when there is power in the mains. As the unit can't supply power to wake the Pro it will then alarm and cut power to the computer!!! :eek: Needless to say, I operate the unit without a USB link after that. Works fine.

[Ravich]

I cant take any chances as long as there are conflicting accounts, because it seems like APC changes things around. From their knowledgebase:

A fan is included on any Smart-UPS 1400 VA higher and on all "XL" models.

All "SU" model units and earlier "SUA " units utilize a single speed fan. The fan will only be on during the following scenarios:

1. The UPS is on battery.
2. The UPS is charging the battery.
3. The UPS has a load greater than 75%.
4. The internal temperature of the UPS has reached greater than 140 degrees F (60 degrees C). Note, for 4th Generation units (model number begins with SUA) the temperature range has changed. For these models, the internal temperature will have to be greater than 104 degrees F (40 degrees C)



Later SUA model units utilize a 2 Speed fan. On these units the fan will always be on in low speed mode, and will switch to high speed mode should one of the following events occur:

1. The UPS is on battery.
2. The UPS is charging the battery.
3. The UPS has a load greater than 75%.
4. The internal temperature of the UPS has reached greater than 104 degrees F (40 degrees C).

It doesnt even explain what the difference is between later and earlier SUA models, so for all I know, that model may very well have the fan on 100% of the time. The fact that the fan is always on at 75% load and greater is also a bit of a turn off, since I'm still not entirely sure how much I'm going to be asking of my UPS.

[nanofrog]

Anybody know? Also, excessups just emailed me asking why I didnt buy the refurbished smart APC UPS and I explained that I wasnt willing to pay 60$ for shipping, so they asked me if free shipping would work for me.

My gut says no because of the potential fan noise issues that I cant seem to get a solid report on, but does anyone know whether excessups is an okay reseller?
There's a strong chance the quote you found is true. I just don't bother with sleep (sleep and RAID have traditionally not played well toghether).

If they're offering free shipping for the SUA1500, get it. Personally, I wouldn't have had a problem paying the $60 shipping cost, as total price is still a deal compared to what that unit goes for new (still save over $100).

Noise won't be an issue with that model (larger fan and heatsink; smaller units use 25mm fans which have to spin very fast to move sufficient airflow over a smaller heatsink). So the cheaper units could be a problem for you (XS and RX models), as the fans only kick in when the inverter is running and they are audible (not so bad it's unacceptable to me, as power is more important than noise <reminds me of a graphics card running hard in terms of dB>, but everyone is different in this regard).

[Ravich]

I have heard most accounts say that the RS models are dead silent because the fan will ONLY run when the unit is on battery power.

4. The internal temperature of the UPS has reached greater than 140 degrees F (60 degrees C). Note, for 4th Generation units (model number begins with SUA) the temperature range has changed. For these models, the internal temperature will have to be greater than 104 degrees F (40 degrees C)
Unless I am mistaken, this quote implies that the fan for this unit will be on whenever the internal temperature is greater than 104 degrees F, which is nothing, right?

[nanofrog]

I have heard most accounts say that the RS models are dead silent because the fan will ONLY run when the unit is on battery power.
I realize that. But you will hear it when this happens (dB levels remind me of a graphics card under load).

When running of the wall, it's not on at all, so dead silent. But the output isn't pure sine wave either when on battery. Wall, yes.

Unless I am mistaken, this quote implies that the fan for this unit will be on whenever the internal temperature is greater than 104 degrees F, which is nothing, right?
104F = 40C

That said, you won't have a problem with it IMO. You have to keep in mind that a larger fan is quieter, as it can move more air at lower rpms than a smaller fan. SUA's are 80mm I think, the RS and XS units use a 25mm unit. BIG difference.

Under max load, both are rated at 45dB @ 1 meter. This means they're running off of the battery at the max load possible for the unit (865W on the RS, 980W on the SUA1500).

If you're pulling that much, you need a bigger unit anyway, as you won't have any battery time to speak of (probably no more than 3 minutes on fresh batteries).

[Ravich]

After replying and explaining my concerns with the SUA1500, they got back to me and said they hear about the fan problems from lots of customers, and recommended I try the 1500LTV instead, and if I had any issues with it, they would give a full refund and pay for shipping.

Sounds good to me, but... I cant figure out what the difference between the SUA and TLV are. The APC knowledgebase doesnt even find any results when I search TLV...

[nanofrog]

After replying and explaining my concerns with the SUA1500, they got back to me and said they hear about the fan problems from lots of customers, and recommended I try the 1500LTV instead, and if I had any issues with it, they would give a full refund and pay for shipping.

Sounds good to me, but... I cant figure out what the difference between the SUA and TLV are. The APC knowledgebase doesnt even find any results when I search TLV...
Doesn't ring a bell at all.

Maybe the SURTA1500XL?
That's one of the Online types.

[Ravich]

I called APC to figure it out, and they said it was basically the same as the SUA model, but a few years back they paired with IBM for parts or something. So... basically it's the same thing, but I'm not entirely sure why he recommended it to me over the SUA.

But since he offered to cover return shipping if I wasnt satisfied for any reason, I'm probably just going to go with.

[Apple Corps]

nano - those SURTA units cost a bundle. There is a point of diminishing returns that all of us have to sort out for our reality.

Our oldest Mac is a G4 "Lamp" 17". It is on an inexpensive APC unit and has seen brown outs, surges, spikes, noise, thunderstorms, AC power on and off many times a day - ..........

It is still humming along after 5 years or so.

My experience is that your computer will be outdated before it dies from transient current issues as long as you have it on a reasonable quality UPS.

BTW - I also run 2 SUA 1500s for the more power hungry MPs.

[nanofrog]

nano - those SURTA units cost a bundle. There is a point of diminishing returns that all of us have to sort out for our reality.

Our oldest Mac is a G4 "Lamp" 17". It is on an inexpensive APC unit and has seen brown outs, surges, spikes, noise, thunderstorms, AC power on and off many times a day - ..........

It is still humming along after 5 years or so.

My experience is that your computer will be outdated before it dies from transient current issues as long as you have it on a reasonable quality UPS.

BTW - I also run 2 SUA 1500s for the more power hungry MPs.
I know the Online units are pricey new. As a result, I try to find them refurbished, as you can get them for less than half the cost (about the same as an SUA 1500 new). You can get new Tripp Lite Online units for ~$540 new (also 1500VA).

And the SUA1500 is a good unit. It's line interactive, but it has a pure sine wave output, and can be had refurbished for ~$250 (not too much different than a BackUPS 1500VA LCD unit).

So if funds allow, the Sxxx1500XL units are my first choice (refurbished, as new is too expensive for most individuals). Second choice is an SUA1500 (refurbished is still good here too).

[ntux]

If you'd like to go the cheap way (and still have pure sine wave), you can pickup a used SmartUPS SUA1000 (with dead batteries) and replace them with generic ones.

You'll have to replace the battery connectors on the UPS (and the fuse), but you'll pay the generic batteries much much cheaper than the APC ones, and can even get extended capacity than the standard ones (about the same as the SUA1000XL or SUA1500).

The guide is here (http://www.repeater-builder.com/backup-power/su1000-xl-mod.html).

[2contagious]

Hi,

I was looking at UPS as well and I found this cheap one:
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/65711

APC Back-UPS CS 650 - AC 230V - 400W - 650VA - RS-232 / USB - 4 Output Connectors

Will this be enough for my 2010 Mac Pro and screen? How long will the battery last? 10mins? 15 mins?

Also, does the software even work on Mac OS X or is it better to buy one (for a mac) that doesn't use software and makes an alarm sound instead?

[Apple Corps]

I do not believe that UPS has sufficient VA for a MP and screen - very marginal at best.

[Bubbalicious]

Does anyone have any recommendations for or against a refurbished UPS?

I mean, if I can get Smart UPS for 250$, why not?

The ones I've narrowed it down to are:

http://www.amazon.com/APC-BACK-UPS-BR1500LCD-1500VA-System/dp/B000NDA5E0/

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1500LCD

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1500G


All are in the ~200-250$ range.



The Smart-UPS is by far the best option, hands down, no competition. The Smart-UPS is a line interactive unit, outputs a pure sine wave, offers avr boost/drop, surge protection and power filtering. This is by far the best option. The price of a new 1500 is $559.99, it's an industrial units while all the other ones are more like home units. I have 6 of these units refurbished, never had a problem.

Hi,

I was looking at UPS as well and I found this cheap one:
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/65711

APC Back-UPS CS 650 - AC 230V - 400W - 650VA - RS-232 / USB - 4 Output Connectors

Will this be enough for my 2010 Mac Pro and screen? How long will the battery last? 10mins? 15 mins?

Also, does the software even work on Mac OS X or is it better to buy one (for a mac) that doesn't use software and makes an alarm sound instead?




The 650 is way too small, it's either going to overload or provide you no run time. For most Mac's, you need to go with minimum of a 1000VA.

Doesn't ring a bell at all.

Maybe the SURTA1500XL?
That's one of the Online types.



The SURTA1500XL is an industrial units used in data centers, it's not a very popular unit as it's extremely expensive for what it does and not practical. The SUA1500/1500TLV are pretty much the same unit. They're the best of the bunch, most versatile and most data center friendly. The 1500TLV is the SUA1500 with an IBM front cover, 80W of extra capacity, phone line/network protection. That's it. The firmwave, software and components are all the same across the units. Both units are awesome.

[nanofrog]

The SURTA1500XL is an industrial units used in data centers, it's not a very popular unit as it's extremely expensive for what it does and not practical. The SUA1500/1500TLV are pretty much the same unit. They're the best of the bunch, most versatile and most data center friendly. The 1500TLV is the SUA1500 with an IBM front cover, 80W of extra capacity, phone line/network protection. That's it. The firmwave, software and components are all the same across the units. Both units are awesome.
I just don't recall the 1500TLV. If that's the OEM P/N for the IBM unit, that would explain it though, as I've used APC's parts (APC label and P/N's). Some Tripp Lite units (unit is cheaper, but the batteries are more expensive; refurbished APC units are cheaper in the long run).

SURTA1500XL = Online version
SUA1500 = Line Interactive

Both are really good (pure sine wave output, unlike the RS or LS models = stepped), but the Online unit does offer a bit more additional protection, particularly under brownout conditions (always runs off of the battery + inverter = 120V AC, no matter what's going on at the wall; unless the batteries are exhausted). The Line Interactive units use an auto transformer to pull up the voltage until the wall sags to 90V, then it switches over to the battery + inverter. The auto transformer can't always output 120V though (wall voltage * multiplier <result of winding> that's chosen by the unit to keep the voltage the closest to 120V <or whatever it is, if a different country than the US>)

[2contagious]

The 650 is way too small, it's either going to overload or provide you no run time. For most Mac's, you need to go with minimum of a 1000VA.

So anything below 1000VA is worthless for a Mac Pro? :(
The only UPS over 1000VA I can find are 300 british pounds or more :(

[MCHR]

So anything below 1000VA is worthless for a Mac Pro? :(
The only UPS over 1000VA I can find are 300 british pounds or more :(

The SMT/SUA 1000 is what I'm considering. But what's holding me back are the reviews stating the excessive fan cycling and noise.

Any thoughts or experience?

[Bubbalicious]

I just don't recall the 1500TLV. If that's the OEM P/N for the IBM unit, that would explain it though, as I've used APC's parts (APC label and P/N's). Some Tripp Lite units (unit is cheaper, but the batteries are more expensive; refurbished APC units are cheaper in the long run).

SURTA1500XL = Online version
SUA1500 = Line Interactive

Both are really good (pure sine wave output, unlike the RS or LS models = stepped), but the Online unit does offer a bit more additional protection, particularly under brownout conditions (always runs off of the battery + inverter = 120V AC, no matter what's going on at the wall; unless the batteries are exhausted). The Line Interactive units use an auto transformer to pull up the voltage until the wall sags to 90V, then it switches over to the battery + inverter. The auto transformer can't always output 120V though (wall voltage * multiplier <result of winding> that's chosen by the unit to keep the voltage the closest to 120V <or whatever it is, if a different country than the US>)

Yes, the 1500TLV is the IBM part number. These units were originally sold with the X series servers that IBM was selling. It was yet another way they could charge a premium on something, therefore the change from the SUA to the 1500TLV.

I agree with you completely, the line interactive units are much better than all the RS, XS, and CS units put together. The line interactive units offer real protection. All the others are just an inverter with a battery. If you spend big bucks on your equipment, why cheap out on the UPS?

[Bubbalicious]

The SMT/SUA 1000 is what I'm considering. But what's holding me back are the reviews stating the excessive fan cycling and noise.

Any thoughts or experience?


The fan problems are with the SMT series. APC claims that the latest version have this under control, however I didn't see this yet as we had to return one a few weeks back because of the noise. The SUA's do not have this problem. Their fan only goes on when needed, conditions such as running on battery, heavy load or recharging. During normal operation, no fan.

If you're really concerned about this, go with the SUA route. It's cheaper and you won't have the problems.

[Bubbalicious]

So anything below 1000VA is worthless for a Mac Pro? :(
The only UPS over 1000VA I can find are 300 british pounds or more :(

Did you look locally for a refurbished unit? You could also look for a used unit, replace the batteries yourself and save a tonne of money.

[MCHR]

Did you look locally for a refurbished unit? You could also look for a used unit, replace the batteries yourself and save a tonne of money.

Are refurbs generally as 'reliable' as OEM units? I'd hate to have a UPS bomb out on me. . .

[ycookmd]

The 1500TLV is the SUA1500 with an IBM front cover, 80W of extra capacity, phone line/network protection. That's it. The firmwave, software and components are all the same across the units. Both units are awesome.

I just received and set up my Mac Pro over the weekend. I have the Apple RAID card (yes, I know it's "proprietary junk" :rolleyes:) running a 4-stripe array. I am testing things out now, and would like to get a power supply that will perform a smooth shutdown in the event of a power failure. I was looking at getting a SUA2200 to power the Mac, 1 or 2 monitors, and 2 external RAID boxes for backup. Without a 20A dedicated line (required?), I think a pair of refurbished SUA1500s would be better for me.

The "extra 80W" of capacity in the 1500TLV is also noted on the ExcessUPS website. However, it is a seller-refurbished unit, and it looks like the replacement battery they spec for the 1500TLV (the RBC7) is the same as that for the SUA1500. So, I am not sure their refurbished TLV is any different from the SUA in terms of capacity... :confused:

[philipma1957]

I just received and set up my Mac Pro over the weekend. I have the Apple RAID card (yes, I know it's "proprietary junk" :rolleyes:) running a 4-stripe array. I am testing things out now, and would like to get a power supply that will perform a smooth shutdown in the event of a power failure. I was looking at getting a SUA2200 to power the Mac, 1 or 2 monitors, and 2 external RAID boxes for backup. Without a 20A dedicated line (required?), I think a pair of refurbished SUA1500s would be better for me.

The "extra 80W" of capacity in the 1500TLV is also noted on the ExcessUPS website. However, it is a seller-refurbished unit, and it looks like the replacement battery they spec for the 1500TLV (the RBC7) is the same as that for the SUA1500. So, I am not sure their refurbished TLV is any different from the SUA in terms of capacity... :confused:

I just ordered 2 units from excessups website. if you can wait about 5 or 6 days I can tell you how the refurb quality is.
Here is some of the order page:

Shipping details:
The seller hasn’t provided any shipping details yet.

-----------------------------------
Purchase Details
-----------------------------------

Description: APC SMART-UPS 1400 SU1400RMNET RACKMOUNT 3U BACKUP UPS , Item#
Qty: 1
Unit Price: $219.99 USD
Total: $219.99 USD

Description: APC SMART-UPS 1000 3U 1000VA SU1000RMNET BATT BACKUP , Item#
Qty: 1
Unit Price: $159.99 USD
Total: $159.99 USD

Subtotal: $379.98 USD
Shipping and handling: $**.** USD
Insurance - not offered : ----

Total: $***.** USD

Payment: $***.** USD

Payment sent to: sales@excessups.com These are the rack mount models. one is for my mac pro one is for other gear.

[nanofrog]

Yes, the 1500TLV is the IBM part number. These units were originally sold with the X series servers that IBM was selling. It was yet another way they could charge a premium on something, therefore the change from the SUA to the 1500TLV.
Good to know, in case one turns up as a refurbished unit, as it's definitely a way to save money, and still get a fully functioning unit. :D

I agree with you completely, the line interactive units are much better than all the RS, XS, and CS units put together. The line interactive units offer real protection. All the others are just an inverter with a battery. If you spend big bucks on your equipment, why cheap out on the UPS?
All but the SURTA1500XL units are switched inverter systems. But the difference is the SURTA1500XL and SUA1500 use inverters that have a pure sine wave output.

The 1500VA LCD models even have the auto transformers, but the inverters generate a stepped wave output, which can cause damage to some systems (I've seen it before).

That unit has been used with MP's before with no reports of damage, but I'm uneasy about it myself, as I have seen damage from them before; usually the PSU. :( When you can get a refurbished SUA1500 for ~$250 (before shipping)), it's not a big deal IMO (worth the extra $50 - 60 in price + difference in shipping, as they are heavier by about 20lbs I think).

The fan problems are with the SMT series. APC claims that the latest version have this under control, however I didn't see this yet as we had to return one a few weeks back because of the noise. The SUA's do not have this problem. Their fan only goes on when needed, conditions such as running on battery, heavy load or recharging. During normal operation, no fan.

If you're really concerned about this, go with the SUA route. It's cheaper and you won't have the problems.
I've never had noise issues out of the SUA or SURTA models myself.

Did you look locally for a refurbished unit? You could also look for a used unit, replace the batteries yourself and save a tonne of money.
True, but there should be a bit more of an advantage with a refurbished unit than convenience (assuming the refurbishing company isn't cutting corners).

That is, they go in and clean out the internals (particularly important for the inverter heat sink), investigate the capacitors (electrolytics tend to need replaced every 10 years due to bulging/leaks), and test it out before they ship it to make sure it meets spec.

Just a thought. ;)

Are refurbs generally as 'reliable' as OEM units? I'd hate to have a UPS bomb out on me. . .
In my experience, Yes.

You'd be wise to check out the warranty/return policy, as well as customer complaints on the web though before buying just to be safe IMO (BBB and reseller ratings for example).

[Bubbalicious]

Are refurbs generally as 'reliable' as OEM units? I'd hate to have a UPS bomb out on me. . .

UPSs are usually very reliable. There are no moving parts inside and most of the time they sit idle. The most common failure is batteries. A good high quality battery should have a life time of 3-5 years. A refurbished UPS shouldn't give you any problems.

[Bubbalicious]

I just received and set up my Mac Pro over the weekend. I have the Apple RAID card (yes, I know it's "proprietary junk" :rolleyes:) running a 4-stripe array. I am testing things out now, and would like to get a power supply that will perform a smooth shutdown in the event of a power failure. I was looking at getting a SUA2200 to power the Mac, 1 or 2 monitors, and 2 external RAID boxes for backup. Without a 20A dedicated line (required?), I think a pair of refurbished SUA1500s would be better for me.

The "extra 80W" of capacity in the 1500TLV is also noted on the ExcessUPS website. However, it is a seller-refurbished unit, and it looks like the replacement battery they spec for the 1500TLV (the RBC7) is the same as that for the SUA1500. So, I am not sure their refurbished TLV is any different from the SUA in terms of capacity... :confused:


The SUA1500 and the 1500TLV both use the RBC7. The difference in capacity doesn't mean an increase in run time. What the extra 80W means is that it can be loaded up an extra 80W, but the run time will not be any longer.

Max Capacity SUA1500 = 980W (at the same time)
Max Capcacity 1500TLV = 1050W (at the same time)


Hope that helps to explain it. Let me know if it just confused everything more.

[nanofrog]

The SUA1500 and the 1500TLV both use the RBC7. The difference in capacity doesn't mean an increase in run time. What the extra 80W means is that it can be loaded up an extra 80W, but the run time will not be any longer.

Max Capacity SUA1500 = 980W (at the same time)
Max Capcacity 1500TLV = 1050W (at the same time)


Hope that helps to explain it. Let me know if it just confused everything more.
It's just a more efficient inverter = less power gets wasted as heat (which translates to more expensive to produce).

The consumer models (RS, LS, CS @ 1500VA) are less efficient than that of the SUA1500 (865W vs. 980W), and use cheaper batteries.

RBC7 = 12V, 17Ah (~$75)
RBC109 = 12V, 9Ah (~$40)

[Bubbalicious]

It's just a more efficient inverter = less power gets wasted as heat (which translates to more expensive to produce).

The consumer models (RS, LS, CS @ 1500VA) are less efficient than that of the SUA1500 (865W vs. 980W), and use cheaper batteries.

RBC7 = 12V, 17Ah (~$75)
RBC109 = 12V, 9Ah (~$40)



I think part of the problem is that APC doesn't particularly care for the home consumer, that's why they make the home units so much flimsier. They don't want to lose 90% of their data center market share, so they make those units much better.

Anyone have several XS/RS 1000's fail on them with the famed "overload" error?

[nanofrog]

I think part of the problem is that APC doesn't particularly care for the home consumer, that's why they make the home units so much flimsier. They don't want to lose 90% of their data center market share, so they make those units much better.

Anyone have several XS/RS 1000's fail on them with the famed "overload" error?
Completely different markets with different needs. Their respective users have different budgets that play a substantial role as well (most users don't even have a UPS, let alone can understand the need for one that can have an MSRP of over $1000USD).

The enterprise market (workstations and servers owned by corporations primarily) are where the real money is for APC (Tripp Lite and Eaton as well), as they realize the need for such a unit, and are willing to pay for it.

[Bubbalicious]

Completely different markets with different needs. Their respective users have different budgets that play a substantial role as well (most users don't even have a UPS, let alone can understand the need for one that can have an MSRP of over $1000USD).

The enterprise market (workstations and servers owned by corporations primarily) are where the real money is for APC (Tripp Lite and Eaton as well), as they realize the need for such a unit, and are willing to pay for it.


So would you think it's fair to say that the quality of the enterprise units is far better than the home units?

[MCHR]

So would you think it's fair to say that the quality of the enterprise units is far better than the home units?

I think that would be a fair assessment for anything claiming to be 'enterprise class'. There are some outstanding pro-sumer products (Western Digital Black Caviar drives come to mind), but enterprise elevates it just bit more.

One exception for me is anything from LaCie. They can claim to be enterprise, but I wouldn't trust their products with my enemy's money.

[nanofrog]

So would you think it's fair to say that the quality of the enterprise units is far better than the home units?
Absolutely.

[2contagious]

I wonder what this one is like. 1000VA for 50 pounds :eek::eek: ??

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-Powertron-Battery-Back-Up-16484/dp/B00274V510/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1284521614&sr=1-3

[Ravich]

I got impatient waiting for my tlv unit from excessups, and for the time being a bought an APC 1500VA XS UPS from best buy and it is completely and utterly silent. Just saying.

[nanofrog]

I got impatient waiting for my tlv unit from excessups, and for the time being a bought an APC 1500VA XS UPS from best buy and it is completely and utterly silent. Just saying.
Because it's running off fo the wall unless the voltage goes low enough to trigger the unit to switch to the battery and run the DC through the inverter. Once that happens, a fan will kick in to cool the inverter.

[Ravich]

Right, but for whatever reason the TLV/SUA units arent silent even when they arent running from the battery.

[philipma1957]

I wonder what this one is like. 1000VA for 50 pounds :eek::eek: ??

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-Powertron-Battery-Back-Up-16484/dp/B00274V510/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1284521614&sr=1-3

cheap junk I would not use it for a mac pro

[Bubbalicious]

I got impatient waiting for my tlv unit from excessups, and for the time being a bought an APC 1500VA XS UPS from best buy and it is completely and utterly silent. Just saying.


It's completely and utterly silent because the APC XS 1500 doesn't even have a fan! :)

[Bubbalicious]

cheap junk I would not use it for a mac pro

I completely agree. You get what you pay for.

[Bubbalicious]

Right, but for whatever reason the TLV/SUA units arent silent even when they arent running from the battery.



Those units should be quiet silent when operating in IDLE. What noise did you hear from an SUA?

[2contagious]

It's completely and utterly silent because the APC XS 1500 doesn't even have a fan! :)

Is that the one?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672631-REG/APC_BX1500G_Power_Saving_Back_UPS_XS.html#features

It's not actually too expensive.. I can't seem to find this model on a UK website though :/

[Bubbalicious]

Is that the one?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672631-REG/APC_BX1500G_Power_Saving_Back_UPS_XS.html#features

It's not actually too expensive.. I can't seem to find this model on a UK website though :/


That's the brand new stand by non sine wave unit. Basically the home edition of the 1500.

[philipma1957]

just got an email from excessups.com here is the gist of it.


Hi Philip,


The SU1000RMNET was taking too long to get ready, they were having problems with the units. I upgraded you at no extra cost to the SU1000RM2U, it's a newer better unit.

We've shipped out your order with FedEx Ground, it's on the way now. The tracking numbers are: 59200**********, 59200**********. The order should be delivered tomorrow.

Please let me know how it works out when the units gets there. If you have any questions, please get in touch with me right away.



Thanks,
Tony
ExcessUPS.com
416-665-3337


Nice Guy to do business with. I grabbed two refurbished pieces. One for the Macpro the other for the iMac. He gave me a small discount on top of the refurbished price. They ship out of Buffalo I am in NJ so the shipping was decent. I have a lot of meters and will test them a bit in the next few days. Phil

[Ravich]

Well, the APC 1500VA TLV arrived the morning of the day before estimated delivery, so I have it here and just set it up. Deep scratches on the top of the unit, but I didnt buy it to look pretty. It doesnt have a convenient display to tell me stuff, but I guess that's fine. Came with no instructions, but the setup seemed easy enough.

It doesnt look like this will work out for me. There is a sort of power/electricity buzz when I put my ear close to it, but that's not the problem. There seems to be something constantly spinning that makes plenty of noise. It sounds like a fan I guess, but reminds me of a hard drive because it will stop spinning for about a second every so often. I mean my Mac Pro isnt dead silent either, but this is pretty high pitched, so it's rather noticeable.

Ah well, guess I'll be returning it.

[bearcatrp]

It's completely and utterly silent because the APC XS 1500 doesn't even have a fan! :)

Yes they do. I have this one and it's brother, the 1300 and when my power goes out or dips, the fans spin up enough along with the alarm to hear it in the other room. No big deal to me as I know my computers are protected. Worked great on my Mac pro (just sold) and my iMac. Not sure if these would be big enough for the new 12 core though. Depends how much time you want in reserve. I got about 25 minutes on my Mac pro.

[aibo]

I've been running a CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD for almost two years. It's completely silent unless you're actually running on battery power -- then the alarm and fan kick on which are somewhat loud. It's got an LCD with all the readout info you want, and OS X recognizes it without any additional driver install. So far I have no complaints but I probably would get the CP1500 if I was buying again cause the CP1350 only gives me about 20 minutes of backup power.

[Bubbalicious]

There seems to be something constantly spinning that makes plenty of noise. It sounds like a fan I guess, but reminds me of a hard drive because it will stop spinning for about a second every so often. I mean my Mac Pro isnt dead silent either, but this is pretty high pitched, so it's rather noticeable.

Ah well, guess I'll be returning it.


Can you describe the sound a bit better? I am not sure what you are describing whether it's a fan noise or if it's a transformer sound. Can you separate the UPS from the Mac Pro so you know where the sound is coming from?

[Ravich]

I can differentiate between sound coming from the Mac Pro and the UPS. The Mac Pro, on the whole, is noisier, although they are both fairly quiet.

On closer examination, I think I was speaking of the same sound coming from the UPS. It just sounds different when I press my ear to the top compared to the sound coming out of the vent. It's probably not a fan, since if I listen long enough, I can hear the fan make slight noises as the RPM drops for a second and then picks up (the fan is silent otherwise I guess.)

Here is the noise recorded with my iPhone. You can hear the buzz pretty clearly. The noise is pretty hard to hear from a few feet away, but since it is a fairly high frequency, it cuts through other white noise.

http://www.box.net/shared/mkr3roh1la

[philipma1957]

The two pieces arrived. they are a bit old looking. with refurbished no big deal. One unit is going out of site and thats a good thing as it has a running fan. the 2u unit is about 20 by 20 inches it is dead quiet when not running off the battery. it is noisy with the battery running during a plug pull black out test. fan is noisy but since this is for blackouts who cares. My savings are 60 percent off new retail price.

I need to rethink placement for the flatter 2ru unit the sm1000rm2u is as deep as it is wide..

[Bubbalicious]

Yes they do. I have this one and it's brother, the 1300 and when my power goes out or dips, the fans spin up enough along with the alarm to hear it in the other room. No big deal to me as I know my computers are protected. Worked great on my Mac pro (just sold) and my iMac. Not sure if these would be big enough for the new 12 core though. Depends how much time you want in reserve. I got about 25 minutes on my Mac pro.


Congratulations on the 12 core! When are you getting it in? I'd love to see what happens when you boot up with the 1300.

[Bubbalicious]

************************************************
************************************************* The two pieces arrived. they are a bit old looking. with refurbished no big deal. One unit is going out of site and thats a good thing as it has a running fan. the 2u unit is about 20 by 20 inches it is dead quiet when not running off the battery. it is noisy with the battery running during a plug pull black out test. fan is noisy but since this is for blackouts who cares. My savings are 60 percent off new retail price.


I need to rethink placement for the flatter 2ru unit the sm1000rm2u is as deep as it is wide..


The biggest noise you hear when you pull the plug is the humming of the transformer. Are you able to hear the fan spin above the transformer noise? UPSs should be dead quiet when in idle operating mode. When the power goes out, that's when the noise comes.

[Sun Baked]

Nice to see excessups.com is treating people well, I didn't know anything when I pointed them out in the UPS threads ... beyond them being an example of a company doing refurbished sales.

The units are tough, if they ever break, the batteries can be source locally from a batteries plus for a higher fee than a web business, but can be had in a couple hours.

And if there are problems beyond that, they can be repaired.

---

A lot of the cheap UPSs service life tends to be the first set of batteries, some of these APC units are still being sent out to new owners over a decade after they were made.

---

These APC units like the Hermann Miller chairs are something you want to buy used, too bad they don't have quite as many local dealers like the Hermann Miller chairs which tend to be easy to find used in most large cities.

[nanofrog]

And if there are problems beyond that, they can be repaired.

---

A lot of the UPSs service life tends to be the first set of batteries, some of these units are still being sent out to new owners over a decade after they were made.
They usually only need batteries and capacitors (~10 years, electrolytics start to bulge and/or leak and need to be replaced).

[Bubbalicious]

I can differentiate between sound coming from the Mac Pro and the UPS. The Mac Pro, on the whole, is noisier, although they are both fairly quiet.


Quick question for you. When you plugged in all your hardware in to the UPS, how many load lights went on?

[Ravich]

Havent gotten around to that yet. At the moment only my Mac Pro and monitor are connected to the UPS. Only 1 load light is on at the moment, but I'm not doing anything processor intensive.

[Bubbalicious]

Havent gotten around to that yet. At the moment only my Mac Pro and monitor are connected to the UPS. Only 1 load light is on at the moment, but I'm not doing anything processor intensive.


One load light is excellent, that's pretty much no load for that unit. Are you going to load it up with more hardware? I am really curious what a good set up would pull out of a unit of that size.

[philipma1957]

I got a good test today. big t-storm hit NJ/NY we had a few tornados close to me which is rare. Lost power for 50 minutes. had only the mac pro on the big unit and all the lite stuff on the smaller unit. was not doing much processing just some lite duty stuff. still waiting on ram. the units were flawless. The battery charge lite dropped from full to 4 lites in the 50 minutes of run time. I will need to rebuild a shelf to make it deeper and stronger once I do that these will work really good.

[bearcatrp]

Congratulations on the 12 core! When are you getting it in? I'd love to see what happens when you boot up with the 1300.

As much as I would like to, decided to build another one. Got a sweet deal on some E5640's (2.66) quads. Compared to apple's prices, Will be able to build for less than half of what apple charges. Will keep the mini for streaming my movies and stuff to apple tv. The rest will be done on my soon to be octo 2.66 pc. Had enough of apple's high prices on the pro's.

[Bubbalicious]

As much as I would like to, decided to build another one. Got a sweet deal on some E5640's (2.66) quads. Compared to apple's prices, Will be able to build for less than half of what apple charges. Will keep the mini for streaming my movies and stuff to apple tv. The rest will be done on my soon to be octo 2.66 pc. Had enough of apple's high prices on the pro's.


Nice, saving money is always a good bonus. You weren't impressed with the 6-8k price tag?

[bearcatrp]

Nice, saving money is always a good bonus. You weren't impressed with the 6-8k price tag?

Not really. After the 2008 models, ( I had a 2.8 w/24gb ram), apple started jacking the prices out of allot of folks reach. Ridiculous. Unless you being paid well to edit video, or other type of work, then it might be worth it. For home stuff, not worth it. Guess I will learn a different software package to do my home stuff.

As for hooking up the 1300 to a 12 core, probably won't cut it. I had the 1500 on the pro and my 1300 is currently on my 2.5 8 core running ubuntu. Working good so far. Just hope the 1500 can handle 16 cores when I get it built.

[Bubbalicious]

Havent gotten around to that yet. At the moment only my Mac Pro and monitor are connected to the UPS. Only 1 load light is on at the moment, but I'm not doing anything processor intensive.


So did you get a chance to try out the unit? How did it go? Did you end up returning it?

Not really. After the 2008 models, ( I had a 2.8 w/24gb ram), apple started jacking the prices out of allot of folks reach. Ridiculous. Unless you being paid well to edit video, or other type of work, then it might be worth it. For home stuff, not worth it. Guess I will learn a different software package to do my home stuff.

As for hooking up the 1300 to a 12 core, probably won't cut it. I had the 1500 on the pro and my 1300 is currently on my 2.5 8 core running ubuntu. Working good so far. Just hope the 1500 can handle 16 cores when I get it built.


I completely agree with you. The products are great, but some of the prices are absolutely astronomical and out of reach for most people. I stick to the older stuff, and not by choice either! :)

[Ravich]

Is there some sort of stress test I can do on OSX to see how high the load gets on the UPS?

The TLV is ridiculously heavy with no way to move it around reasonably and makes a slightly audible buzzing sound, making me want to return it. At the same time, when I unplugged the XS to test it, the stepped approximation to a sine wave made my Mac Pro buzz loudly and it was rather unsettling. All I want to do is shut down properly in case of an outage which we almost never get where I'm from. The XS also cut power to my display and I cant figure out why that would be.

Decisions...

[yoink]

The SMT/SUA 1000 is what I'm considering. But what's holding me back are the reviews stating the excessive fan cycling and noise.

Any thoughts or experience?

I have had two SMT1000s with the "fan" issue. I was told by APC (after the replacement units all had the same issue) that an updated hardware revision was made at the factory and customers requiring silent units would be shipped replacements as soon as they were available. Today, three months after the RMA was re-issued, I received a shipping notice. I should have the updated SMT1000 tomorrow. Will report back with the differences between the two.

[Bubbalicious]

Is there some sort of stress test I can do on OSX to see how high the load gets on the UPS?

The TLV is ridiculously heavy with no way to move it around reasonably and makes a slightly audible buzzing sound, making me want to return it. At the same time, when I unplugged the XS to test it, the stepped approximation to a sine wave made my Mac Pro buzz loudly and it was rather unsettling. All I want to do is shut down properly in case of an outage which we almost never get where I'm from. The XS also cut power to my display and I cant figure out why that would be.

Decisions...


The TLV is ridiculously heavy because it's a solid piece of equipment, unlike the XS and CS it has a real transformer inside and offers real protection! :-)

The reason you're loosing your power to the display and your computer buzzes is because you're using the XS, which outputs a simulated wave. The TLV will never have these kinds of problems.

Look on the left side at the load bars, they'll tell you how loaded your UPS is.

[Ravich]

The TLV is ridiculously heavy because it's a solid piece of equipment, unlike the XS and CS it has a real transformer inside and offers real protection! :-)

The reason you're loosing your power to the display and your computer buzzes is because you're using the XS, which outputs a simulated wave. The TLV will never have these kinds of problems.

Look on the left side at the load bars, they'll tell you how loaded your UPS is.

So I lose power to my display without a pure sine wave? I must know more about this...

[Icaras]

So I lose power to my display without a pure sine wave? I must know more about this...

Definitely not good news. Having just ordered one without pure sinewave, I may have to reconsider the purchase now....

Edit: I have purchased the Cyberpower 1500, but if this happens to be the same case for me, this shouldn't be an issue, as my only purpose for having a UPS is to safely shut down the MP. And I can use my iPhone, iPad, or Macbook Pro to shut my machine down remotely via VNC. :)

[Bubbalicious]

So I lose power to my display without a pure sine wave? I must know more about this...


When you plugged the display into the 1500TLV and went on battery power, did it stay on without interruption?

[aibo]

So I lose power to my display without a pure sine wave? I must know more about this...
Uhh, I've got a CyberPower 1350AVRLCD. It was cheap ~$130 and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have "pure sine wave" or anything fancy. No, I don't lose power to my display when the power goes out... everything works as its supposed to. The power has been interrupted a dozen times since I've gotten it and my Mac Pro (and everything else attached to the UPS) are never interrupted.

[Icaras]

Uhh, I've got a CyberPower 1350AVRLCD. It was cheap ~$130 and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have "pure sine wave" or anything fancy. No, I don't lose power to my display when the power goes out... everything works as its supposed to. The power has been interrupted a dozen times since I've gotten it and my Mac Pro (and everything else attached to the UPS) are never interrupted.

Good to hear! I feel better with my CyberPower 1500 now. So it must be with something specific to the XS 1500 then?

[Bubbalicious]

So I lose power to my display without a pure sine wave? I must know more about this...


Mostly computer power supplies can have this problem, I've never heard of the a display power supply having this problem. I looked in to the XS 1500 and noticed that two of the outlets at the top, are surge protection only, you're not by any chance plugging your display in to those outlets? If it's plugged in to either of those two, it definitely wouldn't work once you pull the plug.

Uhh, I've got a CyberPower 1350AVRLCD. It was cheap ~$130 and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have "pure sine wave" or anything fancy. No, I don't lose power to my display when the power goes out... everything works as its supposed to. The power has been interrupted a dozen times since I've gotten it and my Mac Pro (and everything else attached to the UPS) are never interrupted.


A lot of it has to do with the type of power supply that's in your Mac pro. Some of the older ones worked with non sinewave UPSs, however a lot of the new ones that have an active PFC power supply don't.


If it works for you, great and I wouldn't change it!

[vogelhausdesign]

Sorry for the double post, I'm on on my phone and just posted this in a very old thread.

Hey everyone just a quick question. I found an open box like-new Rocket Fish (skeptical) UPS 1000VA with backup software although it says compatible with 10.3 . Has LCD for monitoring, 8 battery back outlets. For $60 bucks. Is this OK? Will it work for a 5-10 minute battery cycle just to safely shut my 12-core down ? I'd need to pick it up quick so if someone can tell me if that's going to be Ok or if I should shell out 140 for an ACP system with slightly better ratings.

[Ravich]

So I realized that the XS has 4 outlets that are surge protection only, and 4 outlets that have the backup battery. My monitor was probably not plugged until one of the backup outlets when I tested it.


I have switched the TLV and XS in and out a couple of times and I am still troubled by the noise that the TLV makes. I can only hear it through the vent, so it might be unnoticeable if I put it on the other side of my Mac Pro or something, but there's also the fact that it is inconvenient. There are literally square depressions on the floor from the RUBBER pads on the bottom of the thing.

[Icaras]

So I realized that the XS has 4 outlets that are surge protection only, and 4 outlets that have the backup battery. My monitor was probably not plugged until one of the backup outlets when I tested it.

Ok, so you're display now doesn't go out when you unplug right?

See, this is just more evidence that the whole pure sine wave vs. simulated sine wave thing is seriously over exaggerated in my opinion. I highly doubt companies would release such products that didn't function as stated.

[Bubbalicious]

Ok, so you're display now doesn't go out when you unplug right?

See, this is just more evidence that the whole pure sine wave vs. simulated sine wave thing is seriously over exaggerated in my opinion. I highly doubt companies would release such products that didn't function as stated.



It's a huge problem, just read the forums for a bit. So many people run into this problem and end up buying useless UPSs and then returning them to buy the sine wave ones. This isn't isolated to Mac's either, it's a problem with Dell machines too. This whole thing has been going on for years. The funny thing is that Apple nor Dell ever do anything about it, the customers are always left to fend for themselves and figure this stuff out.

And yes, they absolutely release these products that don't function as stated.

[vogelhausdesign]

So does anyone have a recomendation for a UPS under $200 new or used that can handle a 12core. I'm without a computer and research on my 3G is fruitless

[Ravich]

It's a huge problem, just read the forums for a bit. So many people run into this problem and end up buying useless UPSs and then returning them to buy the sine wave ones. This isn't isolated to Mac's either, it's a problem with Dell machines too. This whole thing has been going on for years. The funny thing is that Apple nor Dell ever do anything about it, the customers are always left to fend for themselves and figure this stuff out.

And yes, they absolutely release these products that don't function as stated.
Run into which problem?

[nanofrog]

So does anyone have a recommendation for a UPS under $200 new or used that can handle a 12core. I'm without a computer and research on my 3G is fruitless
Refurbished SUA1000 (http://excessups.com/smartups-1000-sua1000-p-63.html).

Run into which problem?
Things such as devices will cease to run once switched over to the battery + inverter that generates a stepped output. There are other instances that it will work, but it actually damages the PSU (which may take out other parts of the system).

Some PSU's are fine, others aren't. Unfortunately, there's usually no way to know how your equipment will react until you try it. So the safest bet, is to fork over the additional cash for a pure sine wave unit to begin with (no returns to deal with, and it's safer anyway).

I think of the cash savings from a stepped output UPS as having your computer play Russian Roulette. :eek: :p

[ActionableMango]

See, this is just more evidence that the whole pure sine wave vs. simulated sine wave thing is seriously over exaggerated in my opinion. I highly doubt companies would release such products that didn't function as stated.

We've experienced this at my company. Many Dell models shut off the instant the stepped sine wave UPS switches to battery. It has to do with the high efficiency power supplies Dell uses.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/p/19281682/19509341.aspx

The test is to plug several devices into the UPS. Unplug UPS from wall. All devices continue on battery except the Dell PC, which shuts off instantly.

[Icaras]

Ok, well, I'm still on the fence on these sine wave models. Just still trying to learn more.

By the way, would anyone know about the APC SMT 1500 model? I can't seem to find the SUA1500 through normal navigation on APC's site (not doing a search). I have read that the SMT1500 is the successor to the SUA1500. This would probably explain why the SUA1500 is not on APC's products section of their site.

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SMT1500&total_watts=50

Edit: Just found some bad news for those that happen to be interested in a new SMT1500 by APC and also concerned about fans and noise levels, here is an interesting thread on APC's forums concerning the product's unusually loud fans:

http://www.apc-forums.com/thread.jspa?threadID=4500&start=15&tstart=0

Hope this is relevant.

[nanofrog]

Ok, well, I'm still on the fence on these sine wave models. Just still trying to learn more.

By the way, would anyone know about the APC SMT 1500 model? I can't seem to find the SUA1500 through normal navigation on APC's site (not doing a search). I have read that the SMT1500 is the successor to the SUA1500. This would probably explain why the SUA1500 is not on APC's products section of their site.

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SMT1500&total_watts=50
The SMT1500 is a replacement for the SUA1500 (International version, SUA1500i is still available, but operates at 230V input). The rackmount version is still in production as well SUA1500RM2U (US unit = 120V input).

But you can get SUA1500's as refurbished units (cheaper and they work; you may have some cosmetic blemishes, but they're not worth the $$$ for a new unit IMO).

Edit: Just found some bad news for those that happen to be interested in a new SMT1500 by APC and also concerned about fans and noise levels, here is an interesting thread on APC's forums concerning the product's unusually loud fans:

http://www.apc-forums.com/thread.jspa?threadID=4500&start=15&tstart=0
Read the last post in the link you provided, as APC seems to have released a newer firmware revision that changes the thermal profile for the unit (quieter operation). I'm not sure if it's the default firmware with newer units or not, so you may still need to contact APC if you have this particular unit in order to get it and flash your unit.

From APC:
Some initial production lots of SMT1000 and SMT1500 units contained firmware that operated the fans more often than on our previous generation units. This was done with the intent to keep the internal components as cool as possible to maximize the life of the electrical components and batteries. However, based on customer feedback about fan noise in quiet office or home environments, and additional validation testing, an enhancement was made to the firmware that reduces fan noise while still optimizing cooling and component life. If you feel that your unit is too noisy and has a fan that is running at high speed very often, please contact APC technical support to discuss a solution. Please advise the support representative to reference internal knowledge base article 11033.

Hope this helps. :)

[johnnymg]

I did a bit more research and found a couple of threads where it was suggested that late mode MP's have apfc PSU's. There is quite a bit of net chatter about whether or not a apfc PSU can be reliably used with a square wave output UPS. Found some mac related threads indicating buzzing sounds from MP PSU's when running from a non sine wave UPS. Anyway, take that as net BS or whatever.................... :p

For those who want a pure sine UPS, Provantage (dealt with them before) has a good price for them:
http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1500swt2~7CYPR02Q.htm
I will probably go this route as my current 1500 UPS is over 5 years old.

cheers
JohnG

[Icaras]

Read the last post in the link you provided, as APC seems to have released a newer firmware revision that changes the thermal profile for the unit (quieter operation). I'm not sure if it's the default firmware with newer units or not, so you may still need to contact APC if you have this particular unit in order to get it and flash your unit.

Hope this helps. :)

Yup, i saw that last post but forgot to follow up on it here. Thanks, I do think the SMT1500 looks good, of course albeit pricey. I actually do prefer it's new LCD readout rather than the SUA1500 so I will try to find good prices on it. I'll probably be returning my stepped 1500 then.

[vogelhausdesign]

Just wanted to mention that I bought a CyberPower UPS 1350AVR unit , running a 12-Core and 30" ACD 5870+4HDD, with powered speakers and external drive. Pull the plug, tested 20 minutes , shut down with no problem at 5 ( as my settings are ) using the machine with the unit is only at 42% output capacity. :apple:

[nanofrog]

For those who want a pure sine UPS, Provantage (dealt with them before) has a good price for them:
http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1500swt2~7CYPR02Q.htm
I will probably go this route as my current 1500 UPS is over 5 years old.
Unless its a stepped output, I'd keep it and change out the batteries, which require replacement after 3 - 5 years. Batteries will be cheaper than the new unit. Besides, at 5 years, you got a good run out of them. :D

Yup, i saw that last post but forgot to follow up on it here. Thanks, I do think the SMT1500 looks good, of course albeit pricey. I actually do prefer it's new LCD readout rather than the SUA1500 so I will try to find good prices on it. I'll probably be returning my stepped 1500 then.
I like the LCD display as well. The LED indicators on the SUA1500 were a bit "long in the tooth" as the saying goes, and seemed to fall behind the more recent models offered by the competition (Eaton definitely comes to mind). :p

[Icaras]

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Just wanted to mention that I bought a CyberPower UPS 1350AVR unit , running a 12-Core and 30\" ACD 5870+4HDD, with powered speakers and external drive. Pull the plug, tested 20 minutes , shut down with no problem at 5 ( as my settings are ) using the machine with the unit is only at 42% output capacity. :apple:

Ah, that\'s very good to know. Sigh, this decision wouldn\'t be so difficult if users with stepped sign wave models such as yourself didn\'t keep reporting back good results and positive feedback! :p

Ahh... Not sure again now lol

[johnnymg]

Just wanted to mention that I bought a CyberPower UPS 1350AVR unit , running a 12-Core and 30" ACD 5870+4HDD, with powered speakers and external drive. Pull the plug, tested 20 minutes , shut down with no problem at 5 ( as my settings are ) using the machine with the unit is only at 42% output capacity. :apple:

LOL ~~~~~~~ so, no buzzing from the PSU when on battery power, eh! :cool:. So much for internet babble.

cheers
JohnG

[Icaras]

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And you also have the cyberpower 1500AVR? you said for 5 years? That's quite a long time for that model to be around!

[ycookmd]

I ordered 2 refurbished 1500TLV units from ExcessUPS on Monday. I found the unit listed cheaper on a few other sites, but they had sketchy reviews. ExcessUPS was recommended on this forum and their EBay feedback looked OK, so I went with them.

I ordered them through their EBay (not the website) store for $250 each with free shipping: http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-IBM-SMART-UPS-1500-1500VA-1050W-SUA1500-1500TLV-/110582074452?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item19bf348c54



They shipped Tuesday and arrived here Friday. The units were adequately packed. Both had moderate cosmetic damage to the cases, but nothing that you shouldn't expect in a SELLER-refurbished unit. The batteries looked new, but I didn't see a label so I believe they are an off-brand, not APC batteries.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/4763/photo1xa.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/466/photo2yi.jpg



I'm testing one unit first. I plugged the new Mac Pro into the UPS along with my 30" ACD and my Altec Lansing speakers. The Mac Pro recognized the UPS with the included USB cable.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7042/screenshot1mv.png

There are a few shutdown options:

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9493/screenshot2bx.png

The UPS icon appear nicely in the menu bar:

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8564/screenshot3ao.png



The unit was charged 83% but quickly went to 100%. I pulled the wall plug -- the UPS alarmed and this came up:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6012/screenshot4qe.png

There was no lapse or flicker in the display when I pulled the plug. I did not have any processes running at the time. The power management window said I had 36 minutes of power at full charge.



The unit is VERY quiet at rest. The Mac Pro is louder. When the battery power kicks in, the fan in the UPS box comes on and it is quite noisy. However, it runs for only a few minutes after utility power is restored, then shuts off. People who have concerns about the fan noise of this unit do not need to be worried. My unit did not make the humming or whining noise described elsewhere (?).

Overall everything seems to work OK. I'm not sure how much ACTUAL time the UPS will provide; the power seemed to drain a bit faster than indicated. However, there should be more than enough time for a graceful save and shutdown. I plan on testing out the other unit and playing around a bit with the save/shutdown settings. The second UPS is for two external RAID boxes I intend to purchase for backup purposes. I suppose backup for those is even more critical, as they will lack the battery backup found internally on my Apple Pro RAID card.

I hope this was helpful to anyone asking about UPS options. I appreciate all the useful information I have received from posters on this forum. Thanks.

[johnnymg]

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And you also have the cyberpower 1500AVR? you said for 5 years? That's quite a long time for that model to be around!

I have the original version without the LCD display. Haven't checked the battery condition in a while so I can't claim what level of capacity they still have. ???

I'll probably check it with my new MP on Monday.

JohnG

[nanofrog]

Sigh, this decision wouldn\'t be so difficult if users with stepped sign wave models such as yourself didn\'t keep reporting back good results and positive feedback! :p
Not all stepped inverters are the same, equipment they're attached to (it can even differ within the same model numbers from a vendor), and most importantly, there may be cumulative damage they're not yet aware of (i.e. PSU not able to operate at nearly the load it's meant to).

To be sure a stepped unit will even work for certain with the equipment you own, you have to try it out. And only long term use (with multiple power outages/brownouts that trigger the inverter), will prove whether or not any damage is occuring when on the inverter.

So the point of pure sine wave units is to avoid the hassle and/or potential for damage in the first place.

And you also have the cyberpower 1500AVR? you said for 5 years? That's quite a long time for that model to be around!
USP models aren't changed year to year as other products are. It's also cheaper for them to do it that way (larger production quantity to disperse R&D costs).

Both had moderate cosmetic damage to the cases, but nothing that you shouldn't expect in a SELLER-refurbished unit. The batteries looked new, but I didn't see a label so I believe they are an off-brand, not APC batteries.
The refurbished units usually do have cosmetic damage, as that's not something they address (just battery changes, capacitors if needed, and test it).

As heavy as they are, damage is essentially inevitable anyway, as the tower versions will be tucked out of the way somewhere. So they get dinged up being moved, and I've seen them close enough to the user's feet, it may get kicked from time to time, and even used as a foot rest. :eek:

And they still hold up (just don't kick out the cords). :D :p

As per the batteries, they do get 3rd party parts, but APC doesn't actually make their own either. But there can be some slight differences in the current ratings between them (i.e. unknown brand vs. APC labeled units), and it makes a difference in how much time you get for the actual load.

The second UPS is for two external RAID boxes I intend to purchase for backup purposes. I suppose backup for those is even more critical, as they will lack the battery backup found internally on my Apple Pro RAID card.
Definitely, but if the card loses power, it won't matter if the drives do.

Also, sleep tends not to work with RAID cards, so you may want to keep note of that. And not all cards can spin down the cards (if offered, it tends to be a feature on the card, not the OS's power management, as the card takes control of the drives attached to the card, not the OS).

[Ravich]

The unit is VERY quiet at rest. The Mac Pro is louder. When the battery power kicks in, the fan in the UPS box comes on and it is quite noisy. However, it runs for only a few minutes after utility power is restored, then shuts off. People who have concerns about the fan noise of this unit do not need to be worried. My unit did not make the humming or whining noise described elsewhere (?).

Hmm...

http://www.box.net/shared/mkr3roh1la


That is a link to a clip of the noise that I can hear when I get closer to my TLV. It's clearly coming through the vent on the side so I'm debating whether to just move it to the other side of my Mac Pro and then assume that the noise wont bother me, since like you said, the Mac Pro is still lounder on the whole.

[nanofrog]

Hmm...

http://box.net/files#/files/0/f/0/1/f_507536569


That is a link to a clip of the noise that I can hear when I get closer to my TLV. It's clearly coming through the vent on the side so I'm debating whether to just move it to the other side of my Mac Pro and then assume that the noise wont bother me, since like you said, the Mac Pro is still lounder on the whole.
The link doesn't provide a file that can be downloaded. Just a login.

[Ravich]

Sorry about that, fixed.

[nanofrog]

Sorry about that, fixed.
I can't get any sound from the file (plays, but no audio). :confused:

[Ravich]

Weird... it works for me. Are you sure you dont just need to turn up the volume?

[w00tini]

i think i'm going to go with this one: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR2200SWRM2U.html

anyone see a reason why this would not be a good choice?

thanks for any input

[johnnymg]

i think i'm going to go with this one: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR2200SWRM2U.html

anyone see a reason why this would not be a good choice?

thanks for any input

That's an excellent choice for a business level server................... Certainly won't hurt having that big of a unit for a MP but it probably isn't really "needed" either.

Note: You should also check on the fan configuration for that unit. MANY/most rack mount systems run their fans 100% of the time. i.e. Racks tend to be somewhat toasty.

cheers
JohnG

[nanofrog]

Weird... it works for me. Are you sure you dont just need to turn up the volume?
Tried that with multiple playback options (headphones, sound system, and el cheapo powered computer speakers).

Oh well... :rolleyes: :p

i think i'm going to go with this one: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR2200SWRM2U.html

anyone see a reason why this would not be a good choice?
It has good specs, but the comment on noise for rackmount environments is valid. Something to think about anyway. ;)

[vogelhausdesign]

Hey guys, just a quick heads up.. I tested my UPS again today Model Cyber Power 1350AVR , and i DID notice a buzzing sound coming from my power supply, is this bad? Can anyone explain it? it's working fine, just that buzzing sound kind of worries me..

[philipma1957]

the buzzing sound is due to a lousy sine wave form. I have used hi end audio a lot and a lot of computers. a square wave ups will work but it will vary its quality quite a bit more then a pure sine wave output. so if you viewed the wave on an o scope you would see the step or square wave for the lower quality unit vs the smooth wave of the better unit.

So if you look at five 1 hour tests of a stepped wave the steps will not be indentical. the pure wave will be much more close to smooth.

that buzz is the MP saying f this stepped wave I don't like it. test your mp and your ups 5 times and maybe 1 buzz out of 5 or 2 out of 5.

[johnnymg]

Hey guys, just a quick heads up.. I tested my UPS again today Model Cyber Power 1350AVR , and i DID notice a buzzing sound coming from my power supply, is this bad? Can anyone explain it? it's working fine, just that buzzing sound kind of worries me..

There are plenty of things in life to be worried about ................. and this is not one of them. :p

[vogelhausdesign]

There are plenty of things in life to be worried about ................. and this is not one of them. :p

You're a good man Johnny, thanks for putting my mind at ease.

[nanofrog]

There are plenty of things in life to be worried about ................. and this is not one of them. :p
Actually, it can be. I've had a stepped model damage a PSU recently. I started with a BR1500LCD (stepped output) for personal use to save on funds, and I paid for it. :( So re-learning my lesson (happened in years past, but I foolishly thought that it may not be a problem with the newer models), I picked up a refurbished SURTA1500XL.

[Bubbalicious]

Hey guys, just a quick heads up.. I tested my UPS again today Model Cyber Power 1350AVR , and i DID notice a buzzing sound coming from my power supply, is this bad? Can anyone explain it? it's working fine, just that buzzing sound kind of worries me..

:-) Welcome to the the non sine wave UPS with a Mac club!

[vogelhausdesign]

@nano is it going to damage my machine in anyway ? If the UPS breaks how will I know ? Thanks man you're awesome

[Ravich]

Well, I made the decision to keep my TLV. I put it on the other side of my Mac Pro and I can never hear anything coming from it.

[ycookmd]

I have been testing the 2 TLVs and everything seems to be working OK. The second unit is as quiet as the first when sitting idle.

One thing I do notice is that there is a "popping" sound that comes from the Altec Lansing speakers connected to the Mac Pro when I turn the ceiling fan in the room on. Both the Mac Pro and the speakers are connected to the UPS.

Questions:

1. I assume this occurs because it is a "standby" and not an "online" unit, correct?

2. Am I supposed to adjust the voltage sensitivity to correct this? Or is it just the way it's supposed to work?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[nanofrog]

@nano is it going to damage my machine in anyway ?
Unfortunately, this is likely IMO (going by your "buzzing" comment when on the inverter). :(

If the UPS breaks how will I know ?
If the inverter or batteries go, you'll lose power during an outage or brownout that goes low enough to trigger the inverter (typically switches at ~90VAC on the wall).

[w00tini]

Cyberpower seems to be pushing this model (CP1500PFCLCD (http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/intelligent-lcd-ups/CP1500PFCLCD.html)) in the Newegg comments section of the CP1500AVRLCD model where users are mentioning the non-sine wave form of the AVRLCD units.

I'm going to give one of the CP1500PFCLCD units a shot and report back here for you. Should be here in a couple of days.

[Icaras]

Cyberpower seems to be pushing this model (CP1500PFCLCD (http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/intelligent-lcd-ups/CP1500PFCLCD.html)) in the Newegg comments section of the CP1500AVRLCD model where users are mentioning the non-sine wave form of the AVRLCD units.

I'm going to give one of the CP1500PFCLCD units a shot and report back here for you. Should be here in a couple of days.

Nice find. I've always wondered why no one really mentioned the PFC models. Please do chime in when you get this model. I'm very curious.

[johnnymg]

Nice find. I've always wondered why no one really mentioned the PFC models. Please do chime in when you get this model. I'm very curious.

FWIW, this CP unit is the same price but pure sine wave (pro series), has bigger batteries, and much more surge protection:
http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1100sw~7CYPR034.htm

Since my CP AVR1500 is ~5 YO, I'll probably go this route when I retire the 1500 to backup status.

cheers
JohnG

[Icaras]

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By the way, could anyone confirm if the Mac Pro uses an active PFC power supply? Unfortunately it doesn't mention this in the online manual.

[johnnymg]

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By the way, could anyone confirm if the Mac Pro uses an active PFC power supply? Unfortunately it doesn't mention this in the online manual.

Confirmed! :)

[nanofrog]

I'm going to give one of the CP1500PFCLCD units a shot and report back here for you. Should be here in a couple of days.
Looking forward to it. :)

Nice find. I've always wondered why no one really mentioned the PFC models. Please do chime in when you get this model. I'm very curious.

No track record.
For the same MSRP level of funds, you can get a refurbished pure sine wave model (still the better way to go).

[Icaras]

Confirmed! :)

Link?? :)

[w00tini]

FWIW, this CP unit is the same price but pure sine wave (pro series), has bigger batteries, and much more surge protection:
http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1100sw~7CYPR034.htm (http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1100sw%7E7CYPR034.htm)

Since my CP AVR1500 is ~5 YO, I'll probably go this route when I retire the 1500 to backup status.

cheers
JohnG

that's also one I looked at, and it does have nice specs but it seems aimed more at the professionals out there (of which i am not one).

the LCD model seems smaller and probably a bit quieter (i hope). also, i'm not planning on running my system on battery for any extended amount of time. i just want enough time to have the computer shut down on its own. this is my personal computer, not anything i need running for business purposes.

i will definitely post once i've got it up and running and have tested it accordingly. i was let down by the CP850ARVLCD because it couldn't handle the load of the 27" ACD and my MacPro. upon trying to test it, the system just did a hard shutdown. i'm hoping the model i ordered will work better.

[Icaras]

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FWIW, this CP unit is the same price but pure sine wave (pro series), has bigger batteries, and much more surge protection:
http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1100sw~7CYPR034.htm (http://www.provantage.com/cyberpower-systems-pp1100sw%7E7CYPR034.htm)

Since my CP AVR1500 is ~5 YO, I'll probably go this route when I retire the 1500 to backup status.

cheers
JohnG

that's also one I looked at, and it does have nice specs but it seems aimed more at the professionals out there (of which i am not one).

the LCD model seems smaller and probably a bit quieter (i hope). also, i'm not planning on running my system on battery for any extended amount of time. i just want enough time to have the computer shut down on its own. this is my personal computer, not anything i need running for business purposes.

i will definitely post once i've got it up and running and have tested it accordingly. i was let down by the CP850ARVLCD because it couldn't handle the load of the 27" ACD and my MacPro. upon trying to test it, the system just did a hard shutdown. i'm hoping the model i ordered will work better.

Wait, so are you going for the CP1500PFCD or the smart-UPS model?

[w00tini]

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Wait, so are you going for the CP1500PFCD or the smart-UPS model?
im getting this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102134

[vogelhausdesign]

Unfortunately, this is likely IMO (going by your "buzzing" comment when on the inverter). :(


If the inverter or batteries go, you'll lose power during an outage or brownout that goes low enough to trigger the inverter (typically switches at ~90VAC on the wall).

Where is the proof? I respect your comments nano but half the users here say it's nothing and half are saying it can damage your machine.

It's a humming sound, no added heat, shuts down fine and boots up fine, testing hardware shows nothing failed. After 2 full battery cycles it performs as it should.

But you say it can damage my machine, so I ask first how, then any proof? And also wouldn't that be covered by cyber power insurance?

Thanks I appreciate it

[nanofrog]

Where is the proof? I respect your comments nano but half the users here say it's nothing and half are saying it can damage your machine.

It's a humming sound, no added heat, shuts down fine and boots up fine, testing hardware shows nothing failed. After 2 full battery cycles it performs as it should.

But you say it can damage my machine, so I ask first how, then any proof? And also wouldn't that be covered by cyber power insurance?

Thanks I appreciate it
The buzzing is caused by the primary capacitor operating at a very odd frequency as it's actually switching continously rather than fixed at 60Hz (freqency standard in the US/Can) when you operate it on a stepped wave UPS (square wave). All caps make noise, but they are generally outside our human hearing range. But when the frequency is shifting around, you will hear it.

Now what you have to keep in mind, it's taxing on the other components in the PSU. This adds up just like brownout damage, and causes the PSU to fail at some point.

Non PFC (active type) equipped PSU's don't have this problem when connected to a stepped wave UPS. But to keep things "green", APFC's are being implemented in more PSU's.

[johnnymg]

that's also one I looked at, and it does have nice specs but it seems aimed more at the professionals out there (of which i am not one).

the LCD model seems smaller and probably a bit quieter (i hope). also, i'm not planning on running my system on battery for any extended amount of time. i just want enough time to have the computer shut down on its own. this is my personal computer, not anything i need running for business purposes.

i will definitely post once i've got it up and running and have tested it accordingly. i was let down by the CP850ARVLCD because it couldn't handle the load of the 27" ACD and my MacPro. upon trying to test it, the system just did a hard shutdown. i'm hoping the model i ordered will work better.

The Pro unit will be silent as it only runs the fans when on bats.

cheers and good luck with whatever you get.
JohnG

[Icaras]

im getting this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102134

Nice. When will you be getting your hands on it? You must let us know how it goes!

[w00tini]

Nice. When will you be getting your hands on it? You must let us know how it goes!
looks like wed-thurs next week. can't wait, it will complete by build!

[Icaras]

looks like wed-thurs next week. can't wait, it will complete by build!

Sounds good :) If the Mac Pro power supply is PFC (which i've read from other forum ramblings that it is, but could not get a straight answer from AppleCare support), and this PFC model from CP was made specifically designed for these types of power supplies, then I really can't wait to hear some results.

It also seems that CP is the first company to come up with this type of technology for consumer use ("adaptive sinewave"), which is interesting. I hope it plays nicely with the Mac Pro and hopefully can eliminate the buzzing noise.

[w00tini]

Sounds good :) If the Mac Pro power supply is PFC (which i've read from other forum ramblings that it is, but could not get a straight answer from AppleCare support), and this PFC model from CP was made specifically designed for these types of power supplies, then I really can't wait to hear some results.

It also seems that CP is the first company to come up with this type of technology for consumer use ("adaptive sinewave"), which is interesting. I hope it plays nicely with the Mac Pro and hopefully can eliminate the buzzing noise.
i am hopeful as well. it would seem that is the case given how CP is active in promoting these products to work with our power supplies over on Newegg.

[Icaras]

i am hopeful as well. it would seem that is the case given how CP is active in promoting these products to work with our power supplies over on Newegg.

Hey, I just found a new article posted by CP detailing their new PFC line up using "Adaptive Sinewave" technology. I just created a new thread on it here to discuss:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=11161643#post11161643

[vogelhausdesign]

Any objections to this unit for my 12 core? http://excessups.com/smartups-1400-su1400net-beige-p-40.html
Or this? http://www.upsforless.com/trtismart1500ref.aspx
I returned my avr1350 today. Buzzing pissed me' off, or should I instead buy this cyberpower adaptive signwave model?

[nanofrog]

Any objections to this unit for my 12 core? http://excessups.com/smartups-1400-su1400net-beige-p-40.html
Or this? http://www.upsforless.com/trtismart1500ref.aspx
I returned my avr1350 today. Buzzing pissed me' off, or should I instead buy this cyberpower adaptive signwave model?
Either would do, but the Tripp Lite already has a USB interface. The APC SU1400NET doesn't (RS232 port only). In the past, the USB to RS232 cables didn't work under OS X, so users had to find a PCIe based Serial card that will work under OS X.

[vogelhausdesign]

Nano you're awesome. You should be getting paid for all the solid advice you've given people over the years.

Has anyone else seen a good deal on a solid refurb lately? So many on the net.. Post a link please if you do, I need to make a purchase asap.

[vogelhausdesign]

If anyone comes across a good deal on a refurbished smart UPS with sine, 1350-1500VA in the $120-270 range please, post it here. I'm not the only one who recently returned an AVR unit and are left to make a new order. Many could benefit if we use our MR-Forum hive-mind to find good deals!!

Thanks gentleman.

[hnr2802]

hi all, i hope anyone could help me.
just upgrade from imac i5 to mac pro quadcore 2010. before this im using apc ups 650va. read through apple support forum only find power consumption for mac pro 2009 model. it stated 265watt (without monitor). my question is could i use the existing ups on my mac pro or i need higher va?

[johnnymg]

hi all, i hope anyone could help me.
just upgrade from imac i5 to mac pro quadcore 2010. before this im using apc ups 650va. read through apple support forum only find power consumption for mac pro 2009 model. it stated 265watt (without monitor). my question is could i use the existing ups on my mac pro or i need higher va?

That UPS might work OK if you can set the MP for a quick auto-shutdown. Note: The MP PSU will likely buzz with that UPS due to the non-sine wave output from the UPS.

As an aside, every tech junkie should have one of these Watt meters:
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1286115849&sr=8-1-catcorr

I will post my MP's power usage later today.
JohnG

[hnr2802]

thanks johnnymg.
i read about the buzzing issues on non-sine wave ups but may i know the technical reason why it is buzzing?

[nanofrog]

thanks johnnymg.
i read about the buzzing issues on non-sine wave ups but may i know the technical reason why it is buzzing?
Here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=11159524&postcount=144).

[sjinsjca]

Sigh. Here's a better explanation.

You know how a prism takes white light and makes it into a rainbow? It is an optical way to see the spectrum of frequencies that constitutes the white light. White light from the sun and from incandescent light-bulbs has a continuous spectrum. Light from fluorescent lamps and gas-discharge lamps might look white-ish to your eyes but, viewed through a prism, its spectrum is composed of narrow lines rather than a smooth spectrum. These lines correspond to the pure frequencies of excited atoms in the phosphor or gas-discharge in the lamp.

A sine-wave is a pure frequency. If you were to make the same sort of analysis using an electronic equivalent of a prism, you'd see just the narrow line corresponding to its frequency. For mains current in much of the world, that would be 60Hz. Elsewhere (for example in Europe) it's 50Hz. Electronic equipment is designed to digest that frequency.

A square wave, run through the same analysis, would yield a spectrum with the desired big/narrow line at the mains-current frequency but also many higher-frequency spikes. This is because the square wave is not smooth but has sharp corners. Those high-frequency spikes are tough on your electronics. They cause the buzzing you hear, because your electronics are not really designed to absorb those additional frequencies.

Bottom line: your costly digital electronics prefer sinewave UPSes. Your ears probably will too.

[Major Reeves]

Any objections to this unit for my 12 core? http://excessups.com/smartups-1400-su1400net-beige-p-40.html
Or this? http://www.upsforless.com/trtismart1500ref.aspx
I returned my avr1350 today. Buzzing pissed me' off, or should I instead buy this cyberpower adaptive signwave model?

Look for the MGE ellipse premium 1200 for no buzzes.
Or..
GEt the APC SUA2200I, it buzzes, it has an extremely loud fan, it's always conditioning the output and can keep a machine like yours for something like 1 hour and it's extremely easy to replace the battery pack.

It's a tradeoff, commodity for performance.

[vogelhausdesign]

Hey guys I need some purchasing advice ASAP. I'm between the APC SMT1500 LCD , and the older SUA1500. My concern is fan noise , I'm reading that without new firmware the smt1500 LCD uses it's fans constantly. I'm buying refurbished and they're very close in price and I'm leaning toward the Smt for the LCD and newer tech.

Since I'm buying refurbed, will I be able to get new firmware? Please, if you read this and understand , help me' out. I truly appreciate it! Need to purchase by tomorrow .

[nanofrog]

Hey guys I need some purchasing advice ASAP. I'm between the APC SMT1500 LCD , and the older SUA1500. My concern is fan noise , I'm reading that without new firmware the smt1500 LCD uses it's fans constantly. I'm buying refurbished and they're very close in price and I'm leaning toward the Smt for the LCD and newer tech.

Since I'm buying refurbed, will I be able to get new firmware? Please, if you read this and understand , help me' out. I truly appreciate it! Need to purchase by tomorrow .
As it's just a download, I'd expect that APC will help you out if it doesn't already contain the newer firmware. Their enterprise support is quite good.

[Ravich]

Well, my UPS (1500VA TLV from APC) has started making a noisy buzzing sound for periods of time for no apparent reason. Just what I needed. Of course, this couldnt have started happening while I was still able to return it.

[dholaday]

Stumbled across this APC White Paper discussing the difference between Line Interruptible and on-line double-conversion UPS.

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/JSII-5YQSBR_R1_EN.pdf

Interesting discussion. It also contains links to other interesting white papers on UPSs.

[dholaday]

Earlier this week I bought [and quickly returned] a CyberPower double- conversion UPS from NewEgg., their 2000 VA model:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102064

It has 2 fans that run continuously and are VERY loud - IMO not suitable for anything except a server room. Cost me a lot of $$ to learn how noisy the unit is - I hope others don't make the same mistake

[ActionableMango]

I hope others don't make the same mistake

Write a Newegg review to help others out.

Personally I am always suspect that a rack-mounted anything will be loud.

[dholaday]

Put the review on NewEgg right after I posted here. Takes them a while to get review up - it's there now.

[philipma1957]

here is you best deal for right now these are in stock.
that is my review along with 1 other.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/reviews/753163336/#Reviews


look at the price for black ones.

http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/search?q=apc+s15


It sold out and I was on back order I waited 30 days for it, but they did not charge until it shipped.

[Luba]

Got a Tripp Lite surge protector (3k joules) from wall to GeekSquad UPS 1500VA. Below are the spec's. Definitely doesn't use a pure sine wave, but looks like it uses a stepped sine wave?

Anyway to tell if it's Line Interactive?

Transfer time of 4ms, is that fast enough?

Bought it about more than a year ago for about a $100. My local Best Buy didn't want to carry them anymore so they were on sale. Definitely will get a Tripp Lite or APC SUA1500 after battery wears out. Am I ok to wait until battery wears out? Luckily, we don't get brown outs here. How bad is this GeekSquad UPS? Once in a while the GeekSquad UPS senses something and I am momentarily on battery power as notified by a message window on my MP.


SPECIFICATIONS

GS-1500U 1500VA/900W

Voltage range 90VAC-140VAC

Frequency range 57 Hz~63 Hz

On battery output voltage Simulated sine wave at 120VAC +/- 7%

On battery output frequency 60 Hz +/- 1%

Transfer time (typical) 4 ms

Overload protection On utility: circuit breaker
On battery: internal current limiting

[nanofrog]

Got a Tripp Lite surge protector (3k joules) from wall to GeekSquad UPS 1500VA. Below are the spec's. Definitely doesn't use a pure sine wave, but looks like it uses a stepped sine wave?

Anyway to tell if it's Line Interactive?

Transfer time of 4ms, is that fast enough?

Bought it about more than a year ago for about a $100. My local Best Buy didn't want to carry them anymore so they were on sale. Definitely will get a Tripp Lite or APC SUA1500 after battery wears out. Am I ok to wait until battery wears out? Luckily, we don't get brown outs here. How bad is this GeekSquad UPS? Once in a while the GeekSquad UPS senses something and I am momentarily on battery power as notified by a message window on my MP.
It's probably a Line Interactive (4ms is fine), but we'd need the exact model number to be sure (BTW, I suspect it's a re-branded CyberPower unit).

However, stepped inverters do not play well with PFC based power supplies (the MP's is). It's in the design, not limited to a specific brand (APC, Tripp Lite, Eaton, ... models of this type all suffer the same problem - they can actually damage the PSU in the system, and they're not all that stable).

So if possible, its advisable to swap it out now.

[Luba]

It's a GS-1500U. Forget to mention this Geek Squad UPS has "AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) system increases low voltage to a computer-safe 110/120V. The Geek Squad GS-1285U/GS-1500U automatically provides battery backup if the voltage drops below 90V or exceeds 140V." Would that show it's Line-Interactive?

Tripp Lite's SU11500XL is $539 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SU1500XL-Extended-Runtime/dp/B000RW5GQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1289881040&sr=1-1

Sounds like a good price compared to APC SURTA1500XL at Amazon for $960: http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-RT-1500VA-SURTA1500XL/dp/B000636JLU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1289881148&sr=1-1

It's probably a Line Interactive (4ms is fine), but we'd need the exact model number to be sure (BTW, I suspect it's a re-branded CyberPower unit).

However, stepped inverters do not play well with PFC based power supplies (the MP's is). It's in the design, not limited to a specific brand (APC, Tripp Lite, Eaton, ... models of this type all suffer the same problem - they can actually damage the PSU in the system, and they're not all that stable).

So if possible, its advisable to swap it out now.

[nanofrog]

It's a GS-1500U. Forget to mention this Geek Squad UPS has "AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) system increases low voltage to a computer-safe 110/120V. The Geek Squad GS-1285U/GS-1500U automatically provides battery backup if the voltage drops below 90V or exceeds 140V." Would that show it's Line-Interactive?
Yes, it's a Line Interactive unit (AVR = uses a multi-tapped transformer to pick up or lower the wall voltage to an acceptable level when not on battery).

Tripp Lite's SU11500XL is $539 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SU1500XL-Extended-Runtime/dp/B000RW5GQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1289881040&sr=1-1

Sounds like a good price compared to APC SURTA1500XL at Amazon for $960: http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-RT-1500VA-SURTA1500XL/dp/B000636JLU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1289881148&sr=1-1
They're both Online units, so the Tripp Lite is cheaper initially. But what you have to keep in mind, is that the batteries for the Tripp Lite are more expensive.

So over time, the Tripp Lite may not be as inexpensive (i.e. figure 12yrs of service life, and replacing the batteries every 3 years; so unit + 3x battery replacements). You have to run the numbers (especially important in other countries, as they may have drastically different prices on the units). But considering new only, the Tripp Lite is the cheaper way to go (read on as to why).

If you go back and read through the entire thread, there's more information on this, including refurbished units (offer the best value).

Now when comparing a new Tripp Lite vs. a refurbished APC (refurbished Tripp Lites are harder to find for a direct comparison), it comes out in favor of APC due to the less expensive battery replacements.

[Luba]

Interesting review on Tom's hardware recommending CyperPower's CP1500PFCLCD which uses an "adaptive sine wave" (in between modified and pure sine wave). CyperPower says their "adaptive sine wave" addresses the problem of zero state power of modified sine waves with PFC PSUs.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apc-smt1500-cyberpower-cp1500pfclcd-tripp-lite-smart1500slt,2785.html

[dissolve]

Interesting review on Tom's hardware recommending CyperPower's CP1500PFCLCD which uses an "adaptive sine wave" (in between modified and pure sine wave). CyperPower says their "adaptive sine wave" addresses the problem of zero state power of modified sine waves with PFC PSUs.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apc-smt1500-cyberpower-cp1500pfclcd-tripp-lite-smart1500slt,2785.html

There's a thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1024208) on here from about a month ago discussing those models. The few who have bought one gave very favorable reviews. I just ordered one and am waiting for it to arrive.

[nanofrog]

There's a thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1024208) on here from about a month ago discussing those models. The few who have bought one gave very favorable reviews. I just ordered one and am waiting for it to arrive.
Yes, but you can still get a refurbished pure sine wave unit for the same money, perhaps a bit less (personally, I'd wait for a longer track record from the CyberPower unit - more time = more users reporting their experiences with it, particularly longer term). And between the two types, a pure sine wave is a better unit to have (will not cause problems with PFC based power supplies, have a long track record = known to work, and continue to do so even after the warranty period has expired).

Just a thought. ;)

[ActionableMango]

here is you best deal for right now these are in stock.
that is my review along with 1 other.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/reviews/753163336/#Reviews


look at the price for black ones.

http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/search?q=apc+s15


It sold out and I was on back order I waited 30 days for it, but they did not charge until it shipped.

I have this. It works great and is silent. Well, it's silent until power is lost; on battery power it wails like a banshee.

[dissolve]

Yes, but you can still get a refurbished pure sine wave unit for the same money, perhaps a bit less (personally, I'd wait for a longer track record from the CyberPower unit - more time = more users reporting their experiences with it, particularly longer term). And between the two types, a pure sine wave is a better unit to have (will not cause problems with PFC based power supplies, have a long track record = known to work, and continue to do so even after the warranty period has expired).

Just a thought. ;)

Very true. You're opinion swayed me into getting a UPS at all, so it's definitely highly valued :)

I chose to get the CyberPower because I found one at an excellent price. For now, I just wanted some level of security. Down the road, I may look into refurb APCs and use the CyberPower for something else (media center, maybe). For those willing to spend more and have a higher budget, you are absolutely right that a pure sine wave is the way to go. CyberPower's units offer an admittedly lower end solution. For me, I'm more worried about voltage regulation and graceful shutdowns so their offering is sufficient. I never plan to run it off battery for more than a minute.

[Icaras]

Interesting review on Tom's hardware recommending CyperPower's CP1500PFCLCD which uses an "adaptive sine wave" (in between modified and pure sine wave). CyperPower says their "adaptive sine wave" addresses the problem of zero state power of modified sine waves with PFC PSUs.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apc-smt1500-cyberpower-cp1500pfclcd-tripp-lite-smart1500slt,2785.html

Awesome find!

Very true. You're opinion swayed me into getting a UPS at all, so it's definitely highly valued :)

I chose to get the CyberPower because I found one at an excellent price. For now, I just wanted some level of security. Down the road, I may look into refurb APCs and use the CyberPower for something else (media center, maybe). For those willing to spend more and have a higher budget, you are absolutely right that a pure sine wave is the way to go. CyberPower's units offer an admittedly lower end solution. For me, I'm more worried about voltage regulation and graceful shutdowns so their offering is sufficient. I never plan to run it off battery for more than a minute.

Same here, and also always have appreciated Nano's helpful advice, but I'm just the same kind of user as you. I don't ever plan on being on battery time for more than a minute, so the costs of spending triple the amount of CyberPower's units was just not an option for me. And so far, I've been very pleased with the unit. No buzzing or other issues. Very happy with my purchase so far :)

So I take it you finally got around to getting a PFC unit from CP?

[dissolve]

Same here, and also always have appreciated Nano's helpful advice, but I'm just the same kind of user as you. I don't ever plan on being on battery time for more than a minute, so the costs of spending triple the amount of CyberPower's units was just not an option for me. And so far, I've been very pleased with the unit. No buzzing or other issues. Very happy with my purchase so far :)

So I take it you finally got around to getting a PFC unit from CP?

Glad you posted about those units a while back. Definitely seem to be a good fit for our uses. Yeah, I finally ordered one! I went with the CP1000PFCLCD as that's around double the wattage my current setup pulls under max load. Hopefully it gets here this week. I'll resurrect your old thread when it does :)

[philipma1957]

I have this. It works great and is silent. Well, it's silent until power is lost; on battery power it wails like a banshee.

WELL to me that is a good thing it will remind me to shut the machine down as quick as possible. Some people need their machine to run a really long time in a blackout if that is the case they need a generator and a ups.

[nanofrog]

I chose to get the CyberPower because I found one at an excellent price. For now, I just wanted some level of security. Down the road, I may look into refurb APCs and use the CyberPower for something else (media center, maybe). For those willing to spend more and have a higher budget, you are absolutely right that a pure sine wave is the way to go. CyberPower's units offer an admittedly lower end solution. For me, I'm more worried about voltage regulation and graceful shutdowns so their offering is sufficient. I never plan to run it off battery for more than a minute.
CyberPower's other consumer oriented units don't have that wonderful a track record from what I've seen, so I'm hesitant.

For new units, your reasoning is quite valid, as they are expensive (at least 2x as much, and that's discounted from MSRP).

But then I think of the fact you can get a pure sine wave unit (refurbished SUA1500, SMT1500 or similar) for the same money or so (~$250), I'd take a refurbished APC over the unit you have. This makes a pure sine wave unit affordable. The Online types can be had refurbished as well, but they are a bit more money (~$200 or so more if you find the right deal). Definitely a better way to go than new, and its how I buy my own (personal use).

A company is a different matter, as they should have increased financial resources, need warranty support, and can write it off.

Glad you posted about those units a while back. Definitely seem to be a good fit for our uses. Yeah, I finally ordered one! I went with the CP1000PFCLCD as that's around double the wattage my current setup pulls under max load. Hopefully it gets here this week. I'll resurrect your old thread when it does :)But you can get a pure sine wave (Line Interactive, but the inverter is still pure sine wave) for the same/similar money, and it's likely to outlast the CyberPower unit if they're anything close to past consumer units (seem to die about the time they need batteries = no bargain IMO).

You want to get as much of a VA rating as you can IMO (1500VA is the largest you can go without needing an electrician to wire in a circuit for a larger unit; it also will give you sufficient run time, even with aging, to get the system shut down properly before the unit is out of power).

The reasoning behind it is, that the batteries age over time, which means less run time will be available over the aging process, eventually requiring replacement if the unit is still good. You might also want to note, that your current real run time tends to be less than what the software/LCD reports (brand does not matter in my experience).

[Icaras]

Glad you posted about those units a while back. Definitely seem to be a good fit for our uses. Yeah, I finally ordered one! I went with the CP1000PFCLCD as that's around double the wattage my current setup pulls under max load. Hopefully it gets here this week. I'll resurrect your old thread when it does :)

Yea, it was very interesting to me and I was pleased to see the press starting to notice the new technology. The 1000 and under units look great. Only 15 lbs light and I bet even more silent operation than their bigger brothers. Sweet, looking forward to your opinion :)

CyberPower's other consumer oriented units don't have that wonderful a track record from what I've seen, so I'm hesitant.

With all due respect Nano, if you could only show us this negative track record from which you speak of, because from what I've read so far, has been near perfect in terms of customer reviews (a quick glimpse of simple Amazon and Newegg reviews shows this), and as for tech press reviews, maybe I haven't been looking, but I really haven't seen any yet.

For new units, your reasoning is quite valid, as they are expensive (at least 2x as much, and that's discounted from MSRP).

But then I think of the fact you can get a pure sine wave unit (refurbished SUA1500, SMT1500 or similar) for the same money or so (~$250), I'd take a refurbished APC over the unit you have. This makes a pure sine wave unit affordable. The Online types can be had refurbished as well, but they are a bit more money (~$200 or so more if you find the right deal). Definitely a better way to go than new, and its how I buy my own (personal use).

A company is a different matter, as they should have increased financial resources, need warranty support, and can write it off.

But you can get a pure sine wave (Line Interactive, but the inverter is still pure sine wave) for the same/similar money, and it's likely to outlast the CyberPower unit if they're anything close to past consumer units (seem to die about the time they need batteries = no bargain IMO).



I understand there is value in refurbished pure sine wave units, but honestly, I factored more than just dollar value when considering my purchase. The following may not matter much to high paid working professionals or business customers, but as prosumer/enthusiast who also deals with audio work, I wanted something that was quiet, light-weight, and discreet. I really didn't want a 50 lb. massive footprint next to my machine, burning a hole on my carpet with noisy fans and generating more heat than I needed.

For my sole purpose, the CP unit fit the bill perfectly. It's very discreet and makes absolutely no noise, and generates barely any heat (as confirmed earlier, these units have a vampire draw of 5-8 watts). It's so good in those qualities, that I forget that it's even there working.

I understand these are not what define the primary purpose of a UPS unit, but again for my personal purpose, and for those who don't require mission critical workflow, I personally found these qualities, in addition to the budget friendly price of a brand new unit to outweigh going for a pure sine wave unit.



You want to get as much of a VA rating as you can IMO (1500VA is the largest you can go without needing an electrician to wire in a circuit for a larger unit; it also will give you sufficient run time, even with aging, to get the system shut down properly before the unit is out of power).

The reasoning behind it is, that the batteries age over time, which means less run time will be available over the aging process, eventually requiring replacement if the unit is still good. You might also want to note, that your current real run time tends to be less than what the software/LCD reports (brand does not matter in my experience).

But we don't need as much runtime as possible. Some users just want to shut down within 1 minute, which diminishes the importance of VA or runtime. Really, what does it matter how long it can keep my Mac Pro running if all I want to do is shut down immediately? And those numbers get diminished even more if your like me and live in an area that barely gets any brown-outs.

[Luba]

Is the SMT1500 the same as the SUA1500? If not which is better? I think the SUA1500 is now discontinued??

CyberPower's other consumer oriented units don't have that wonderful a track record from what I've seen, so I'm hesitant.

For new units, your reasoning is quite valid, as they are expensive (at least 2x as much, and that's discounted from MSRP).

But then I think of the fact you can get a pure sine wave unit (refurbished SUA1500, SMT1500 or similar) for the same money or so (~$250), I'd take a refurbished APC over the unit you have. This makes a pure sine wave unit affordable. The Online types can be had refurbished as well, but they are a bit more money (~$200 or so more if you find the right deal). Definitely a better way to go than new, and its how I buy my own (personal use).

A company is a different matter, as they should have increased financial resources, need warranty support, and can write it off.

But you can get a pure sine wave (Line Interactive, but the inverter is still pure sine wave) for the same/similar money, and it's likely to outlast the CyberPower unit if they're anything close to past consumer units (seem to die about the time they need batteries = no bargain IMO).

You want to get as much of a VA rating as you can IMO (1500VA is the largest you can go without needing an electrician to wire in a circuit for a larger unit; it also will give you sufficient run time, even with aging, to get the system shut down properly before the unit is out of power).

The reasoning behind it is, that the batteries age over time, which means less run time will be available over the aging process, eventually requiring replacement if the unit is still good. You might also want to note, that your current real run time tends to be less than what the software/LCD reports (brand does not matter in my experience).

[w00tini]

my CP is still running like a champ. no vamp, no noise, no heat, been running 24/7 since i made this video in our other thread

http://www.youtube.com/user/craighaynor#p/a/u/0/YXsy_L7brig

[nanofrog]

Is the SMT1500 the same as the SUA1500? If not which is better? I think the SUA1500 is now discontinued??
The SMT1500 is the replacement for the SUA1500 in the US (visibly differentiated by the LCD screen in the new model). But spec wise, they're close in electrical specifications (a couple of differences, such as USB has replaced DB9, and the surge suppression's been increased a bit IIRC).

But the SUA1500 is still made for other markets (Mexico for example, and the SUA1500i for 230V markets).