How Can Final Cut Pro still be 32 bit only?

H. Flower said:

Do you guys realize Final Cut Pro uses only ONE Processor? ONE?

It has been nearly a year since Snow Leopard was released. Every other major design program on the market is 64 bit.

Why should we keep advancing our hardware/cores when Apple's software is so far behind?

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I think we're all very, very aware, just based on how slow and buggy the current program is....recently I had a crash due to the "KG Core Plugin." That's 14-year old code from when Final Cut was codenamed Key Grip and was a cross-platform skunkworks project at Macromedia.

All signs suggest that the next version of Final Cut will be a complete rewrite, but who knows when it will be released.

H. Flower said:

Do you guys realize Final Cut Pro uses only ONE Processor? ONE?

It has been nearly a year since Snow Leopard was released. Every other major design program on the market is 64 bit.

Why should we keep advancing our hardware/cores when Apple's software is so far behind?

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Annoying, yes.

On the flip side, Compressor uses lottsa cores and Motion benefits from better/faster GPUs.

Take a look at the benchmarks for the MacPro range. All the "CPU" benchmarks are related to encoding using 'Final Cut Studio' (they aren't naming Compressor) and the only mention of FCP specifically relates to storage and I/O speed, which impacts the number of streams FCP can play back in a timeline realtime. The ability of FCP to use more cores would probably increase the number (and complexity) of RT effects one could use. This I want

A 12-core machine does look like overkill for,well, everyone really. If you just wanted faster h.264 compression, you could buy something that could do that for you for a lot less. Or buy a second Mac and hand it off to that while you did something useful. I have a second iMac available to me and I do compression on it (MPEG Streamclip batches) while using the first Mac for something else.

H. Flower said:

Do you guys realize Final Cut Pro uses only ONE Processor? ONE?

It has been nearly a year since Snow Leopard was released. Every other major design program on the market is 64 bit.

Why should we keep advancing our hardware/cores when Apple's software is so far behind?

Click to expand...

Apple is too busy with the consumer line to bother doing the much needed rewrite of Final Cut. They have already dumped Shake... don't be surprised if Final Cut is next.

H. Flower said:

This I want, too. Premiere can playback layers of Sapphire plugins in real time, smooth as silk. And of course render management is far superior.

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Yeah, I never thought I'd say this... but Premiere is better than Final Cut. Faster, cleaner UI, and better integration with After Effects. And with CS5, it's 64bit and multiprocessor aware.

Edit with CS5 and call people from your iPhone.

Yeah, I never thought I'd say this... but Premiere is better than Final Cut. Faster, cleaner UI, and better integration with After Effects. And with CS5, it's 64bit and multiprocessor aware.

Edit with CS5 and call people from your iPhone.

Click to expand...

Unless of course, your job depends on cutting with FCP. One thing that FCP (as well as Avid) has is years of market saturation. Very few in the entertainment business cut on Premiere.

I don't think Apple plans on dumping FCP. But FCP does have to be re-written from the ground up for 64-bit and that's no easy feat, especially with the new Quicktime-X framework, which I can imagine will be the basis for a new version of FCP (my speculation, anyway).

It's pretty obvious that Apple dumped Shake in favor of Motion. It was clearly a cost-saving move, considering Apple discontinued tech support for Shake prior to discontinuing the product altogether. It was rumored for a while that Apple was working on the successor to Shake (codenamed Phenomenon), but if anything ever surfaces from that, it will make its way into a new version of Motion if Apple continues on the FCS business model (selling FCP with a suite of companion software).

My wish list for Final Cut Studio:

1. 64-bit native with a Cocoa UI across all applications.
2. Resolution independence in FCP and Color.
3. Truly seamless integration between FCP and Color.
4. Native support for modern codecs without time consuming transcoding (AVCHD, AVC Intra, REDCODE, XDCAM, etc.).
5. A new version of DVDSP that actually supports Blu-ray authoring (wishful thinking).

H. Flower said:

Do you guys realize Final Cut Pro uses only ONE Processor? ONE?

It has been nearly a year since Snow Leopard was released. Every other major design program on the market is 64 bit.

Why should we keep advancing our hardware/cores when Apple's software is so far behind?

Click to expand...

Apple need to do something about updating pretty much all their pro software systems, but the question isn't "Why aren't they using technology $foo?" but rather "Does it still do the job?".

I'd personally still say 'yes, just about' to that but they do need to update it soon for that to remain true.

CaptainChunk said:

4. Native support for modern codecs without time consuming transcoding (AVCHD, AVC Intra, REDCODE, XDCAM, etc.).

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The only reason that would happen is to tick an item off a list of features "demanded", but not necessarily wanted.

AVCHD is not an editing codec, it is a capture codec. Stunning though it is, it's pretty ordinary at its heart. It is 4:2:0, 8-bit colour and uses temporal compression. While it might be nifty to be able to cut it within iMovie, it has no place as an editing format in a pro app.

FCP can edit AVC Intra natively ... sort of

Maybe today will be a GREAT day for us Video Geeks!

Apple is streaming the event themselves...this plays nicely into my FCP fantasy upgrade...and a brand new piece of software in the package, kinda like Adobe's On Location (I use ScopeBox)!

Again, my dream only! Couldn't help but Hope...with the whole streaming thing today based on video...the evolution of the iPhone to HD, the iPads are out and shipments are finally being satisfied...hell, I can even by the iPad camera connect kit locally! LOL.

Now...that all of the mass market items are on the street and kicking can, it's time to coddle those of us that actually make money with Apple's products; both soft and hardware. I think Adobe's move with CS5 was a BIG one, with full 64bit cross platform support...and hopefully opened Steve's eyes. He's no dummie though...and Jobs is a big fan of HD video, so hopefully, soon...we will see the 64bit rewrite for FCP/QT core.

With the new Apple TV @ $99, I'm considering IT as a delivery platform to all of my paying clients. (I'll build the extra C note in to the cost), I think that'll sell VERY well in my market, and hardly make a dent in my overall production and post prod costs.

While I'm a huge fan of PhotoShop and Adobe Audition...as well as After Effects...I am WAY to efficient on FCP to drop it and learn a new NLE system. I'm sure there are many, many others in the same predicament. I love what Apple did with Aperture in this last update...Logic is now 64bit, hopefully today will provide some insight in to Apple's editing platform future.

J

akdj said:

I am WAY to efficient on FCP to drop it and learn a new NLE system.
J

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While there are differences, Premiere acts a lot like Final Cut and most NLEs. Anyone adept at Final Cut should pick up Premiere in no time.

It's not like moving to Avid.

CaptainChunk said:

4. Native support for modern codecs without time consuming transcoding (AVCHD, AVC Intra, REDCODE, XDCAM, etc.).

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Be careful what you wish for. Avid's AMA allows support for a number of production codecs but the performance can drop pretty significantly and you lose many of the media management functions that Avid is famous for. Premiere Pro also bogs down cutting H.264 on longer and/or more complex timelines. I don't have any first hand experience but this is just what I've picked up hanging around the virtual water cooler.

akdj said:

While I'm a huge fan of PhotoShop and Adobe Audition...as well as After Effects...I am WAY to efficient on FCP to drop it and learn a new NLE system. I'm sure there are many, many others in the same predicament. I love what Apple did with Aperture in this last update...Logic is now 64bit, hopefully today will provide some insight in to Apple's editing platform future.

Click to expand...

Don't get so attached to a single tool that you neglect to learn how to use other, possibly better tools. I'm sure a lot of guys were reluctant to learn Avid during the early and mid-90's because they felt way too fast and comfortable using their linear, tape-to-tape gear. Learning is easy and on going. The day you stop is the day you quit growing and start dying, IMO.

I haven't touched Premiere in ages (not since 6.5) but the changes in CS5 make me want to pick it up again and when the open source version of Lightworks is released I'm going to grab that too. I know Avid as well, although I haven't used it in a few years. FCP is still my NLE of choice for now, but I am by no means chaining myself to it. Horses for courses as they say.


Lethal

"Don't get so attached to a single tool that you neglect to learn how to use other, possibly better tools. I'm sure a lot of guys were reluctant to learn Avid during the early and mid-90's because they felt way too fast and comfortable using their linear, tape-to-tape gear. Learning is easy and on going. The day you stop is the day you quit growing and start dying, IMO."

I couldn't agree more. I'm not totally against learning a new NLE, however...I am intimately familiar with a lot of Adobe software (I've been a PS user for 10 years and Adobe Audition since Cool Edit 1.0>Syntrillium days), and enjoy what I've chosen to use. However, my experience...albeit limited, with Premier on my Mac (CS3), I wasn't excited. Obviously, a LOT has changed with CS5...to the point I'm intrigued. However, with the lack of 'CUDA support on Mac...or nVidia all together at this point, it's pointless for me to make the switch to take advantage of the incredible performance boosts seen with offloading work to the GPU. This is exciting to me. Especially considering time saved on some of the benchmarks I've seen.

My fingers are crossed that we'll see more of the same in the future with a re-write of FCP to take advantage of Grand Central, or any other proprietary system Apple comes up with to dump workload to the GPU. I'm still rockin' the '08 MacPro with an 8800 GT...soon to make a GPU switch, and I've actually considered the new nVidia FX card @ $1,000 when it drops...to give CS5/Premier another whirl. If for nothing else than to learn my way around.

Honestly, I'm not one of those "Anti-Learning" or "Fanboy" jokers of any NLE or workstation...just VERY happy with FCP and it's ability to integrate with almost everything else I do on my Mac in the studio (music, V/O, FX, et al). With the one exception of Audition...another example of my efficiency. I've used it in radio for the better part of 15 years now...and it's just a tough proposition to take that experience, dump it, and pick up a new editing system. Is it possible, absolutely! Preferable...No Way!


"I haven't touched Premiere in ages (not since 6.5) but the changes in CS5 make me want to pick it up again and when the open source version of Lightworks is released I'm going to grab that too."

Agreed. See above. I've never been so intrigued by an Adobe product. Seeing the time savings benefit on some of those benchmarks ALMOST makes me want to build a Windows machine to take advantage of all CS5 has to offer. Again, due to the lack of "Cuda choices on the market for Mac (I can't find a GTX 285 to save my life!!!). Right now, I'm wayyyy too busy finishing up commercial and wedding work this summer to switch...but as things cool down this winter, I'm going to play for a month on the free trial.

"I know Avid as well, although I haven't used it in a few years. FCP is still my NLE of choice for now, but I am by no means chaining myself to it. Horses for courses as they say."

Again...I agree. Perhaps my initial statement was too strong. I've spent the last 16 years programming a Classic Rock station for Clear Channel (as my 9-5 gig). I've had several employees that were almost impossible to change over to computer and digital editing. We had to physically remove the reel to reels from the studio to force one individual to make the leap. He eventually learned it, but it took time and a lot of bitching.

I've played with AVID in two different post houses...however, in my market... I'm not sure there's a full on AVID system in practice. Both times I had the chance to fart around....it was limited and more of an "Awe-Struck" situation than a real chance to play! I would love to get a weekend with a real AVID pro...and a chance to pick his/her brain.

Thanks for the reality check though. It's probably a good thing to pick up a second NLE and put some time in....Just in case Apple drops the Pro apps from their repertoire in the future

J