MWSF Announcement Details? [Archive]

MacRumors

Dec 9, 2004, 01:25 PM

An anonymous submission today points to some possible releases at MWSF in January:
New eMacs

1.6 Ghz G5 across the line -- 533 mhz bus like the iMac. ATI Radeon 9600 with 64 MB VRAM.

Combo $899
Superdrive $999

New Powerbooks

G5s are nowhere near ready as are dual G4s. There will however be slight upgrades and price drops.

12" - upgrade to 1.5 Ghz G4, BT/AE built in (like the new iBooks), 80 GB HD, Mobility Radeon 9700 (64 MB) Price $1399
15" - upgrade to 1.67 Ghz G4, BT/AE built in, 80 GB, Backlit keyboard standard, Mobility Radeon 9800 (128 MB VRAM) Price - $2299
17" - Same as 15" except 17" display - $2599

Keynote 2
-new transitions
-GREATLY improved performance
-New 'media tab' allowing easy access to photos, music and movies -- similar to how it is integrated in iDVD

Quicktime NG (next-gen)

First major change in the .mov format since QT 3. Integrated H.264, MP4, and Wavelet technology.
Support for .ogg, heAAC, and FLAC audio. (these will also be available for playback in new iTunes)
Apple is currently negotiating to get the full trailer for Episode III and the full trailer for Batman Begins to be released on keynote day -- to view would require download of NG.
New Pro key needed. Lower Price $19

Mudbug

Dec 9, 2004, 01:27 PM

I'm making no claims as to the validity of this - just thought I'd pass it along.

swissmann

Dec 9, 2004, 01:28 PM

I like this time of year. Sounds like a pretty decent guess.

Laslo Panaflex

Dec 9, 2004, 01:29 PM

Seems realistic to me, and not too shabby either, maybe that's becuase I am not expecting much.

pourhadi

Dec 9, 2004, 01:33 PM

Eh, that's all well and good (and probably on-the-mark), but we need something else... like a new hardware device or little piece of software. Something that's keynote worthy, not boring speed bumps.

flashPod would be interesting, but I'm getting sick of Macworld turning into iPodworld.

But then again, I guess there's not much we can do about that :p

realityisterror

Dec 9, 2004, 01:34 PM

price drop on the 12" is very nice.. i'm assuming that's with a combo drive for 1399 though?? 15/17 is still too expensive...

reality

themacman

Dec 9, 2004, 01:36 PM

This sucks for powerbooks I think 1.7 G5 emac, 1.6 g5 12" Powerbook 1.9 g5 17 "

nagromme

Dec 9, 2004, 01:37 PM

Anonymous? I'll call it a "guess" and make mine:

* No eMac G5 in January due to G5 shortages. But soon: once the iMac backlog settles down.

* I too am conservative in PowerBook predictions. Just like the PowerMac story once upon a time, we're "hanging in there" with G4 pro laptops for now. In many ways they're the best laptop on the planet--thin, great OS, great display on 15" and 17: (if you don't have defects needing warranty service), lots of ports, etc.... But they're not going to be the fastest in the world for now.

And remember: Apple doesn't focus anymore on having products come out timed with events like MacWorld. Big things happen when they happen.

afields

Dec 9, 2004, 01:39 PM

emac and imac with a g5, g4 for "power"book. Nice.

mashinhead

Dec 9, 2004, 01:43 PM

emac and imac with a g5, g4 for "power"book. Nice.

Yeah at this rate an ibook will get a g5 before a powerbook. I don't really mind the non-dual and non g5, but come on whats with the .17 ghz jumps every 8 mos. In the words of Emril Lagasse (sp?), 'kick it up a notch'.

OasisNYK

Dec 9, 2004, 01:44 PM

Interesting...no bump in HD size? No higher res screen? No dual layer DVD burning?

Who knows what will really happen but it seems like a solid forecast.

buseman

Dec 9, 2004, 01:45 PM

QuickTime "next generation" sounds interesting.. I'm more interested in a VBR AAC encoder than ogg, but choice is always good. Keynote 2 is a given, as is PB updates. Hopefully a firm release date for Tiger will also be set..

Sun Baked

Dec 9, 2004, 01:51 PM

NNO-Stephen

Dec 9, 2004, 02:04 PM

eMac update... PERFECT!

my mother is looking to buy one and I'm making her hold out :p

dongmin

Dec 9, 2004, 02:08 PM

Eh, that's all well and good (and probably on-the-mark), but we need something else... like a new hardware device or little piece of software. Something that's keynote worthy, not boring speed bumps.

agreed. there's always something completely new, and quicktime ng doesn't qualify. last year there was the ipod mini and garageband. i'd expect something new and and consumery along those lines.

Veldek

Dec 9, 2004, 02:12 PM

On which day is the keynote?

jtgotsjets

Dec 9, 2004, 02:12 PM

agreed. there's always something completely new, and quicktime ng doesn't qualify. last year there was the ipod mini and garageband. i'd expect something new and and consumery along those lines.

iPhone?

iPod Flash?

maya

Dec 9, 2004, 02:13 PM

A new eMac G5 would mean one of the shortest product lifecycles since Apple started making their own PPC chipsets -- 8 months since the eMac switched to the DDR Intrepid chipset (4/2004) and ditched the SDR PowerMac chipset (UniNorth/KeyLargo).

Of course this would also put the education users back at the head of the line instead of suffering with the oldest configurations for as long as they have in the past (the iMac CRT was painful to see in the lineup for so long.)

As of recent as other have noted that Apple is not sticking to its same time-frames as previous. No more announcing products at Expos only and no more timed updates as long as its ready it released.

Why should the eMac users suffer, heck at those prices I might be tempted to buy an eMac G5 (which will use the rev A G5 chips 130nm), and as long as it has even the 5200 Graphic Card at that price its a steal. :)

This only means that the iMac G5 and PMG5 will be getting a BETTER graphics card (finally a 128).

And why the long wait to just update the powerbooks to 1.5-1.67GHz that seems false to me. They could have updated it with the iBooks maybe even a 1.7 for the 17" that would have made more sense, and release a G5 powerbook in spring if by then ready.

The 12" PowerBook looks tempting however the iBooks and PowerBooks are stepping on each other toes, at this point.

And I also agree no HD resolution, no faster 8x mobile burners (there are available now), no HDD increase. PowerBooks are looking like a bad deal even with the price drops.

QuickTime NG, a name change and new key required. Now that sounds promising indeed.

I agree with SOME of these predictions, seems weak overall where are the Xserver updates and the mini update.

wdlove

Dec 9, 2004, 02:14 PM

The predictions seem to be modest ones. Will be looking forward to the Quicktime. Still think that Steve will have a surprise.

micvog

Dec 9, 2004, 02:15 PM

.ogg? The this will send the /. crowd to mass hysteria.

Poff

Dec 9, 2004, 02:15 PM

Support for .ogg, heAAC, and FLAC audio. (these will also be available for playback in new iTunes)

Does this mean .ogg support in iPods? I've talked to several people who don't buy iPods because of the lack of .ogg support.

New key for quicktime? Not good. I like my key! :)

JangoFett124

Dec 9, 2004, 02:18 PM

One thing that I see wrong with this is the release of the Episode III trailer. It has been officially confirmed that the full Episode III trailer won't be released until March.

crakly

Dec 9, 2004, 02:20 PM

i predict a bore-note - everything above is probably correct, together with iPod mini upgrades and demo of new tiger features.

they have to do something with the damn powerbooks - they've done amazing things with it before and i can't believe they've let it slip so badly. the powerbook should be apple's flagship product - a perfect combination of power and portability.

maya

Dec 9, 2004, 02:24 PM

sparkleytone

Dec 9, 2004, 02:29 PM

There are two dead giveaways that someone is playing a guessing game here.

1) OGG support...this is pretty much the Sasquatch of the /. audio crowd.

2) FLAC. No reason to implement FLAC when the Apple Lossless Codec is being used for anything and everything Apple needs for lossless encoding.

Tulse

Dec 9, 2004, 02:47 PM

I also doubt that Apple would increase the price of the low-end eMac by $100, as it serves the most price-sensitive sector of Apple's market.

jamdr

Dec 9, 2004, 02:51 PM

That price on the 12" PowerBook is pretty nice. With an edu discount, it would only be, what, $1200? Or maybe $1300. But I'm still really expecting updates to the iPod mini. It's been a year (sort of) already, and the iPod is Apple's most popular product.

jamdr

Dec 9, 2004, 02:54 PM

I also doubt that Apple would increase the price of the low-end eMac by $100, as it serves the most price-sensitive sector of Apple's market.

Yeah, I didn't think about that, but it makes no sense whatsoever for Apple to make their low-end model more expensive. If putting a G5 in the eMac means a $100 price increase, the eMac won't have a G5 anytime soon.

krzysiek

Dec 9, 2004, 03:29 PM

Maybe in PB 12" is FW 800 :)
Mayby PB 12" is not 12" but 13" lcd :cool:

quagmire

Dec 9, 2004, 03:32 PM

I call BS on the Powerbook update details. What really threw me off was the 1.67 Ghz top end and the 9700 in the 12" Powerbook. You might as well give the 12" Powerbook a 9800 because the 9800 and 9700 are close in performance and the 9800 would still do stuff better though. A 1.67 Ghz G4? I smell overclock 7447A if true which I think the chances are slim. Why wouldn't apple released the updates now? Even weirder why a keynote? A slightly faster G4 deserves a keynote?

PS: eMac won't get the 9600. Even at 64 MB I tend to think the 9600 would crush the 5200 at 64 MB. So the eMac would become once again better than the iMac if true.

MacSA

Dec 9, 2004, 03:34 PM

Why would Apple want to wait so long to provide such mediocre updates to the Powerbook line? Remember the "No Powerbooks until 2005" quote?

newportnews

Dec 9, 2004, 03:36 PM

Hi,

I originally sent in the rumor based on info I got from a source who works in Cupertino (this is the first rumor I have sent in, because its the first "insider info" I have ever gotten)

Just wanted to answer a couple of the questions posted.

- .ogg and FLAC are being supported for playback only and not for encoding. Many bands are now using FLAC to release lossless audio (DMB and Phish to name just two). Ogg is for the same reason -- many websites post Ogg content and Apple just wants to keep up with the formats. Again, playback not encoding.

- I agree that the Powerbook updates are really disappointing but Apple hopes that price drops will allay some people's disappointment.

-The Episode III trailer release is currently "in negotiations" -Apple would love to have it as a "Trojan horse" to get millions to download NG on the first day.

applekid

Dec 9, 2004, 03:37 PM

Hard to believe with the eMac and a 9600 Pro and G5 in an eMac. If it's true though, I'm gonna have to get my parents to buy me an eMac for my half-step to my next Mac since it's pretty cheap for the power.

Sounds too idealistic these alleged updates. The PowerBooks almost sound like such a small jump it's just not worth updating. Maybe dropping the prices to clear out stock would work.

snahabed

Dec 9, 2004, 03:58 PM

hayesk

Dec 9, 2004, 04:04 PM

I could swear that there was already ogg playback. Maybe not.

I believe you can download a third-party QT plugin to get ogg playback.

Fredstar

Dec 9, 2004, 04:10 PM

I reckon there won't be much intoduced in Jan and a concentration for June or slightly earlier for the release of Tiger.
So:
-A new 5 (maybe 6) gb mini with a few more features like more battery life
-Keynote 2.0
And that is it, they should tell everyone what is coming in a few months.

I don't think they are going to change the emac, powerbook, ibook (obviously) or the Powermacs.

For June for Tiger introduce:
G5 Powerbook
Dual 3ghz Powermac, + PCI-Express/Radeon x800/16X dvd burner e.t.c
Imac with a 128mb graphics card and a few extra rev b features - maybe a slight speed bump
No idea regarding the emac...they need to decide where to go and i don't think they will be introducing a G5 anytime soon.

I really can't see anything major in January.

scottkle

Dec 9, 2004, 04:11 PM

Whoa .. whoa .. whoa ...

Some guy makes a guess ... he doesn't say anything about how he knows or why he'd be privy to such information .. .and it's posted as a rumor?

Give me a break. How can this site ever claim to be believeable when it does stuff like this?

To the poster ... I suggest posting to forums as a normal person and not as someone with inside information.

Here's my prediction. I have two, actually.

1. Powerbook G5s are ready. I expect to see this as a Page 2 rumor IMMEDIATELY.

2. The guy who posted this is wrong.

dongmin

Dec 9, 2004, 04:13 PM

With the implementation of H.264 in quicktime, Apple will introduce a new application: iTheater.

This new iLife application is the iTunes for all video content--a single program to play, organize, download, and record video content. This single application will provide the functionality that was previously handled by 2-3 other programs (DVd player, QT player, iTMS for movie trailers & video) AND allow easy sync with iMovie and .Mac.

In addition, Apple will finally provide TiVo-like functionality with an optional wireless firewire video recorder. Last, but definitely not least, Apple will offer video content for rental or purchase--the first in the PC industry--with the iTheater Box Office. The iTBO will make renting and buying videos as easy as buying songs on the iTMS.

--ok so this is purely a fantasy of mine, but wouldn't it be nice...

shamino

Dec 9, 2004, 04:16 PM

Yeah, I didn't think about that, but it makes no sense whatsoever for Apple to make their low-end model more expensive. If putting a G5 in the eMac means a $100 price increase, the eMac won't have a G5 anytime soon.
Agreed. Apple has held the line for many many years, making sure that their entry-level Mac is always priced at $799. I can't see them ever changing that.

A G5 eMac may be a real possibility. But they will not ditch the $800 model. They might sell an $800 eMac/G4 at the same time as the more expensive eMac/G5 models. Or they might produce a stripped-down model to sell for $800.

It is worth noting that when the iMac went to a G4 and flat-panel dispay, Apple kept selling CRT-based iMac/G3 systems. They didn't stop making those until an $800 eMac started shipping.

shamino

Dec 9, 2004, 04:19 PM

I believe you can download a third-party QT plugin to get ogg playback.
Which will also, therefore, allow iTunes playback. (iTunes will throw unknown/unsupported file formats at QT if it can't play them directly.) But you'll still have to convert to some other format if you want to move the track into an iPod.

Mr. Anderson

Dec 9, 2004, 04:53 PM

curious nothing on the PowerMacs.....bleh.....

nothing there really stands out, might be a pretty low key key note if that's all that's going to happen.

D

millar876

Dec 9, 2004, 05:01 PM

wild stab in the dark here BUT perhaps this will make it into the PB "http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/emergingtech/0,39020357,39155141,00.htm" (a 17" OLED) lower power consumption than normal LCD display, Perhaps make the 17" PB base a little thicker (allowing beter cooling i.e. iMac G5 style fans) and stick in a 1.8 GHZ G5 with 900Mhz bus. my reasoning, an OLED monitor can be basicly a thin plastic strip glued onto a sheet of reinfirced Alu (VERRY THIN indeed) making the overall increce in sise marginal.

but what do i know? I can only dream ;)

vollspacken

Dec 9, 2004, 05:01 PM

flashPod would be interesting, but I'm getting sick of Macworld turning into iPodworld.

what about the "fleshPod"..? eeeeeew :rolleyes:

but seriously, seems pretty reasonably to me, I especially like the stuff about Keynote 2...

now, give me an Apple branded audio interface/masterkeyboard like this one from M-Audio (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Ozonic-main.html), and I'd be happy :)

vSpacken

macridah

Dec 9, 2004, 05:56 PM

no powerbook g5 :eek: I hope we at least get the powerbook G5 by next developer's conference.

no mention of new iPods or xServes?

rog

Dec 9, 2004, 06:05 PM

I think they really need to get the eMac down to $599 or so, and maybe $899 with a superdrive.

The Powerbook line is just depressing at this point.

Apple's lineup needs a major overhaul. Pretty much everything is either too slow or too pricey. Few PC users are going to spend over a grand for any computer under 2Ghz. Apple really needs to be taking advantage of the ipod frenzy opportunity to grow marketshare. they can do this by making their products much more affordable, especially since speeds are not going to increase anytime soon. Every single model that is not a DP G5 is trounced by PC competitors that cost less. When I go into the Apple store, the DP G5s are the only ones that make me think, 'wow this is fast.' When I play with the PBs and ibooks, I think, 'what is wrong with this thing and why is it so slow to react?' their $3000 powebook still feels slower in finder and general interface than does the low end DP867 I have that's 2.5 yeard old.

sun25

Dec 9, 2004, 06:20 PM

Emac 1.6Gthz G5 Announced, but but actually available until march.

PowerBook G4 12" 1.5 ghz, BT/AE built in, 80 GB HD, Mobility Radeon 9700 (64 MB) Price $1299 available immeaditely

Powerbook 15" 1.7 Ghz BT/AE built in, 80 GB, Backlit keyboard standard, Mobility Radeon 9800 (128 MB VRAM) Price - $1999
17" - Same as 15" except 17" display - $2499''

Ipod mini - Smoother edges, maybe smoother edges.

Keynote 2.

The Power Mac lineup moves to 2.0 Ghz, 2.3 Ghz, 2.5 Ghz, with the prices staying the same.

Flash Ipod - 256 MB - $99, 512MB $149, 1GB -$199

Steve pulls out something interesting and suprising, that none of us have any idea about

Le Piou

Dec 9, 2004, 06:23 PM

Seems realistic to me, and not too shabby either, maybe that's becuase I am not expecting much.
Yeah. So realistic that it's borring... Who is interrested by a bump speed of 13%? :(

the_mole1314

Dec 9, 2004, 06:28 PM

No iLife '05? Wow, that's odd, I thought that would be a given....

Doctor Q

Dec 9, 2004, 06:56 PM

On which day is the keynote?Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 9:00am to 10:30am, Pacific time.

starwxrwx

Dec 9, 2004, 07:52 PM

i really really hope keynote gets updated - i love the app and it has so much potential, but it really needs some work (speed ups, better theme control, more 3d transistions, other stuff i cant think of right now...)

the powerbooks need some new "wow" factor - i think they are great but if i was up for a new laptop id prolly still go an ibook - if u hack it to screen span there almost no dif in the 12" (esp with BTO options) and the extras in 15/17 will cost you a lot...

what about those nice shiny LCD displays? a guy i work with has a toshiba i think and the display looks awesome
better graphics resolutions would also be a plu, esp on the 12" - some of us have good eyesight! ;)

i hope there is a g5 emac - but i hope it doesnt take till march/april to be shipped!!!

JRM

Dec 9, 2004, 08:14 PM

Why this isn't true

1) It would be a terrible marketing flaw having their bottom end emac with firstly a more advanced processor and secondly with a higher megahertz rating than the (POWER)book. This doesn't mean that there will be G5 PB's but Apple won't bring out a G5 Emac prior to a G5 PB, but still hopefully both at the same time in Jan.

2) There will have to be updated Powermacs. They can't wait till June because they are already past their average time between updates and June will make this product way too old by that time. At San Francisco we will most likely see Dual 3's, Dual 2.5 , Dual 2 and single 2 line up will new ATI graphics cards and newer drives.

3) And would Apple after such a long time give such a token upgrade of their PB line, like seriously .17ghz is pathetic and the only other difference is the 9800m GPU, i think we have a better chance seeing a G5 PB than these updates.

4) If Apple put a G5 in an Emac won't they have to have a redesign of the case, and this is possibly a little premature for the emac line.

Anyway it's all just guess work!

You don't know, at this rate Apple may release a G3 Powerbook!

;)

Wonder Boy

Dec 9, 2004, 08:39 PM

1. new powerbooks 1.4 ghz 12 and 1.6 ghz 15 and 17's

2. new ipod minis 5 gig

3. ibox reciever

4. airport express remote

5. new emacs 1.6 ghz

6. keynote 2

7. iLife 05

8. updated tiger beta released (maybe a more exact launch date?)

that is WAY too much but it would be sweet to see ANY 4 of these

BWhaler

Dec 9, 2004, 08:42 PM

I believe this rumor is 80-90% correct.

Seems detailed in interesting ways. Seems about the right amount of new stuff. Also seems a little disappointing which the past MWSF was.

I agree we will see a new mini, maybe something else for the iPod world.

What is interesting is the 12" PB v. iBook. The gap is very, very small in real world terms.

bankshot

Dec 9, 2004, 08:59 PM

Hmm, the HE-AAC support sounds interesting. I was just commenting in the 5 GB mini thread yesterday that I'm torn on whether to get my wife an iPod, a mini (what she really wants) or wait for higher capacity. Problem is her collection is about 10 GB of VBR MP3, averaging around 200 kbps. Re-ripping to 128 kbps AAC would get that down to around 6 GB best case, still too much to fit on a mini, and no room to grow.

If HE-AAC can really get good quality at, say, 80 or even 64 kbps (she's DEFINITELY no audiophile, so it doesn't have to be pristine quality), that could just work. I did a little searching and found that Nero (http://www.nero.com/) for Windows has a HE-AAC encoder. They have a free fully functional trial download, so I think I may fire up the Windows machine and try it out for myself. If I'm satisfied with a bitrate that would fit her collection on a mini, I just may go for it and surprise her.

This is ASSUMING, of course, that all current iPods will be updated to play HE-AAC. If not, then I'm screwed! :eek: :o

Should I go for it anyway and hope Steve bails me out come next month? :D

Stella

Dec 9, 2004, 09:03 PM

Unfortunately there simply aren't any PPC processors available for apple to put into the powerbooks to bring them up to date, on par with PC competition. The Freescale and IBM PPC road maps are well published and known, and the dual core processors won't appear until well into next year. The next batch of (single core) PPCs will appear not so long into next year but won't arrive in time for refreshed PBs in January ( if any).

This is the unfortunate ( dire ) reality.

The iBooks offer better value than the over priced PBs. Unfortunately. I'd love a PB but the offerings are well overpriced and under par.

The rumours about QuickTime are good - especially the price drop. $29 was simply too much but $19 would be a good price.

Looking forward to a new version of iTunes.. when ever that appears.

Why this isn't true

1) It would be a terrible marketing flaw having their bottom end emac with firstly a more advanced processor and secondly with a higher megahertz rating than the (POWER)book. This doesn't mean that there will be G5 PB's but Apple won't bring out a G5 Emac prior to a G5 PB, but still hopefully both at the same time in Jan.

2) There will have to be updated Powermacs. They can't wait till June because they are already past their average time between updates and June will make this product way too old by that time. At San Francisco we will most likely see Dual 3's, Dual 2.5 , Dual 2 and single 2 line up will new ATI graphics cards and newer drives.

3) And would Apple after such a long time give such a token upgrade of their PB line, like seriously .17ghz is pathetic and the only other difference is the 9800m GPU, i think we have a better chance seeing a G5 PB than these updates.

4) If Apple put a G5 in an Emac won't they have to have a redesign of the case, and this is possibly a little premature for the emac line.

Anyway it's all just guess work!

You don't know, at this rate Apple may release a G3 Powerbook!

;)

StarbucksSam

Dec 9, 2004, 09:14 PM

Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 9:00am to 10:30am, Pacific time.

Why is it always a goddamn school day? Man! I want to see it. One year I was sick so I got it. LOL.

spinner

Dec 9, 2004, 09:43 PM

I think there will be more to MWSF. There are other products also due for an update, xServes & PowerMacs for instance. If they miss the fall 2004 release of xSan then that will be another thing. Unless of course they plan on having a press conference a couple weeks later like they have done in the past.

I am however a little disappointed in the supposed PB specs if they are indeed true much like everone else I am sure. Although price drops are always welcome :)

newportnews

Dec 9, 2004, 10:07 PM

For those who are hating... a little proof from my source.

More to Come...

NN

Wonder Boy

Dec 9, 2004, 10:27 PM

For those who are hating... a little proof from my source.

More to Come...

NN

with all due respect, what the fsck is that supposed to prove?

Steven1621

Dec 9, 2004, 11:16 PM

Interesting...no bump in HD size? No higher res screen? No dual layer DVD burning?

Who knows what will really happen but it seems like a solid forecast.

I would have expected these things as well. We shall see, though

polyesterlester

Dec 10, 2004, 12:04 AM

For those who are hating... a little proof from my source.

More to Come...

NN

So now we know your source's name ("Michael Malkin") and what he looks like. Nice. ;) (Hell, we even know the last seven digits of one of his buddies phone numbers. It's not impossible to figure out the area code. I won't give it away, though ;))

I don't really see what this proves though, other than either you or your source knows how to photoshop the letters 'N' and 'G' into a screenshot. I'm not saying it is indeed a photoshop job, I'm just saying that it's sure as hell not proof. ;)

Spymit007

Dec 10, 2004, 12:37 AM

Steve's gonna have to pull a "one more thing" at the end of this keynote...it wouldn't be a MacWorld Expo without one, but what is it going to be???

rendezvouscp

Dec 10, 2004, 12:53 AM

The only thing I care about in this rumor is H.264 support in QuickTime. That would totally make my day. I am so happy about this new codec, it's quite sad.

However, in the latest release of Tiger, they still have not made H.264 fully functioning. This concerns me that they wouldn't be able to pull it off for a QuickTime release, especially on multiple platforms. So, I believe that this rumor is untrue, but I'd love it to be true.
-Chase

Squire

Dec 10, 2004, 01:52 AM

* As Wonder Boy pointed out, there might be an AirPort Express remote.
(I'm wondering if the lack of remote for the iPod photo is somehow related to a possible release. Why, oh why wouldn't they throw a 50¢ remote in with a $600 mp3 player?)

* I also think there will be iPod photo integration built into Keymote 2.

Squire

dark_helmet

Dec 10, 2004, 03:08 AM

For those who are hating... a little proof from my source.

If that screen is from your "source" then you just did a nice job burning him.

Superdrive

Dec 10, 2004, 03:11 AM

The screen shot apparently shows a new version of iPhoto. I would imagine if this were photoshopped that whoever did it would have taken the time to blank out their contact info. Hope theyre not under NDA.

martijnvandijk

Dec 10, 2004, 04:05 AM

Please something like a home media device. It would fit so nicely into the airport express developments and I need one soo badly!!!

Eh, that's all well and good (and probably on-the-mark), but we need something else... like a new hardware device or little piece of software. Something that's keynote worthy, not boring speed bumps.

flashPod would be interesting, but I'm getting sick of Macworld turning into iPodworld.

But then again, I guess there's not much we can do about that :p

ChrisH3677

Dec 10, 2004, 04:45 AM

My bet for the "and one more thing" will be Keynote 2 and the big wow will somehow involve iPod Photo and Keynote. Tho not sure how, as iPods not having Quartz, wouldn't be able to pull off the same graphics wow as Keynote on OS X.

I too also expect to see iLife 05.

I'm also still hoping beyond hope, that Appleworks X will make its debut.

Datazoid

Dec 10, 2004, 05:54 AM

Sorry guys, but this is a fake. Check out the minimized safari window in the dock....the image looks an awful lot like the one in the quicktime window. Doing further research, I found the image being portrayed as a "movie" at this link: http://img88.exs.cx/img88/5619/episode3_spoileriffic_spacebattle.jpg

Edit: I've now attached a screenshot (of my own creation) that essentially duplicates the original, using the image above and editing the InfoPlist.strings file (so it says Quicktime NG instead of Quicktime Player) in the QTP package....

Edit 2: You know, its even more obvious than that...notice the time (on QT "NG") says 00:00, but yet there is an image on the screen....

Edit 3: Also, the "new" iPhoto icon that was pointed out is merely a 3rd party icon, get it here: http://interfacelift.com/icons-mac/details.php?id=1030

buseman

Dec 10, 2004, 07:12 AM

Why Newportnews? WHY!? :(

Photorun

Dec 10, 2004, 08:13 AM

darkwing

Dec 10, 2004, 09:13 AM

Well I hope the powerbook stuff isn't true. I have a rev C 17 and I'm hoping to get something that will at least compete with the new Dothan laptops in terms of raw power. This is pathetic. I switched back in 2003 with a rev A 17, and I had no idea I was using 4 year old technology.

Steve

gopher

Dec 10, 2004, 09:54 AM

Lord Bodak

Dec 10, 2004, 10:01 AM

I hope this is accurate. If the 12" PowerBook gets that, I'll have to buy-- the 9700 is a huge improvement and a speed bump from my 1.0 to 1.5 would be nice too. If the combo is $1399, the SuperDrive should end up $1599, which is too good to pass up.

Converted2Truth

Dec 10, 2004, 10:57 AM

Place that crappy prediction here.

He's full of crap. I call BS.

The emac will not get a better GPU than the iMac G5. So that's out the window for sure.

The powerbook prediction is bogus too. 9800m in the powerbook?! hell no! That's not gonna happen, why? Because it consumes large amounts of power. the laptop would only get 1-3 hours battery life (and that's being optimistic). Also, the only laptop in the world that currently has that chip is DELL. ATI has an exclusive partnership with DELL with respect to their mobile monster vpu. Oh, and ppl saying that the 9700m is close in performance to the 9800m are VERY wrong. the 9800m is over 3x as fast. it's a sweet upgrade, it's just not gonna happen.

This is some 16yr old kid who thinks he knows what's gonna happen. That's fine and all, but it's just not a good guess. Sadly, I think the only thing we're gonna see at MWSF is a flash iPod. HAS JOBS FORGOTTEN THAT HE'S RUNNING A COMPUTER COMPANY?

darkwing

Dec 10, 2004, 11:04 AM

He's full of crap. I call BS.

This is some 16yr old kid who thinks he knows what's gonna happen. That's fine and all, but it's just not a good guess. Sadly, I think the only thing we're gonna see at MWSF is a flash iPod. HAS JOBS FORGOTTEN THAT HE'S RUNNING A COMPUTER COMPANY?

I don't think he ever knew he was running a computer company. I switched because I love my PB and I love OSX (because I'm a *nix geek) however, I'm very disappointed in being left behind by PC laptops this year.

Also, Steve is a moron anyway. An industrial designer here at work knows the guy who did the industrial design on the 17s, and Steve was always insisting they have the central hinge thing instead of two outer hinges. That's the reason the lids are always crooked when closed. Yes, let's be "trendy" so we can charge 30% more and then have it wind up crooked.

Don't mind me. I love my Mac. I'm just bitter today. :mad:

Steve

drsuse

Dec 10, 2004, 11:09 AM

no sale.

we'll have to see. it's only a month from today, anyways.

aldo

Dec 10, 2004, 11:19 AM

He's full of crap. I call BS.

The emac will not get a better GPU than the iMac G5. So that's out the window for sure.

The powerbook prediction is bogus too. 9800m in the powerbook?! hell no! That's not gonna happen, why? Because it consumes large amounts of power. the laptop would only get 1-3 hours battery life (and that's being optimistic).

You do realise that graphics cards only use up power when they need to? Even the desktop ones do. The m signifies mobile, which usually means less power requirements.

Frobozz

Dec 10, 2004, 11:36 AM

2) There will have to be updated Powermacs. They can't wait till June because they are already past their average time between updates and June will make this product way too old by that time. At San Francisco we will most likely see Dual 3's, Dual 2.5 , Dual 2 and single 2 line up will new ATI graphics cards and newer drives.

I disagree. Several of the last PowerMac updates (past 3 years now?) have occured in late February or early March-- and not at MWSF. Even if they were announced at MWSF, they weren't launched until a month or two later. The summer revisions moved to fall revisions. Look to history and you will see this.

The Feb/March revision will probably include a 2.8 or a 3.0 Ghz top of the line PM with an x800 GPU option. Some argue the architecture changes won't occur until the summer revisions, but I think we could see them in this upcoming one instead. They do need to migrate to PCI-Express GPU's and DDR2-533 memory.

3) And would Apple after such a long time give such a token upgrade of their PB line, like seriously .17ghz is pathetic and the only other difference is the 9800m GPU, i think we have a better chance seeing a G5 PB than these updates.

Well, although we may perceive it as a weak update (some of us), the last update was exatly that. A small speed bump and a better graphics card. At least this time they will drop the prices.

mashinhead

Dec 10, 2004, 11:37 AM

What is interesting is the 12" PB v. iBook. The gap is very, very small in real world terms.

I agree. before the ibook was moved so close to the powerbook it took a chunk out of its sales. No, with (or if) the price drop, the powerbook will eat into the ibook. They would have to drop ibook prices too. They're overlapping. Frankly maybe they should just consolidate the portable lines until they have something more advanced to offer.

WankerWeasel

Dec 10, 2004, 11:45 AM

shamino

Dec 10, 2004, 11:48 AM

joeconvert

Dec 10, 2004, 11:51 AM

While yet another ipod would be just wonderful...

I echo the views of those looking for some substance in the pro line of mobile computing. Granted there are part availability issues (i.e. no dual core G4s shipping) and engineering constraints prevent the G5 from being the answer to so many mobile pro's prayers.

We can all go back and forth on who's fault it is, but the bottom line it is getting sad. I know many people toying with the Apple switch, but they are very unimpressed with the performance/$ ratio in mobile land.

Bummer :(

lem0nayde

Dec 10, 2004, 12:32 PM

I say Apple will surprise everybody and release a Powerbook G5. But then, they'll be brought down by several multi-million dollar lawsuits from people who's laps were severely burnt by the incredibly hot machines. It'll be like McDonalds coffee all over again.

Apple will then revert back two generations to G3 Powerbooks - just to be safe (and they'll in the original plastic clamshell iBook casing - for added protection.)

Joe

BenRoethig

Dec 10, 2004, 12:59 PM

You do realise that graphics cards only use up power when they need to? Even the desktop ones do. The m signifies mobile, which usually means less power requirements.

The 9800m (and its X800 sucessor) is designed specifically for the DTR segment.

dferigmu

Dec 10, 2004, 01:12 PM

Wouldn't this make the iMac G5 obsolete? The only thing it would have over the eMac would be the screen. But the eMac would have an 8X Superdrive and better graphics card for hundreds less.

quagmire

Dec 10, 2004, 01:58 PM

We're not going to see any PowerBook updates at MWSF. eMac will get an update as it is the oldest item in the lineup. I can't tell the other things that will be updated. My lips are sealed but you'll be in for a good show. :p

The eMac is only older by one week than the Powerbook. What apple is going to let the powerbook grow stale(r)? I am sure apple won't let their pro laptop go stale for over a year. I say again if it was a mere G4 update it would of happened by now. I wonder if you could be the persons *source*

Ups85

Dec 10, 2004, 02:01 PM

First off, I highly doubt the eMac will be getting a G5

Second, the powerbook rumor seems about accurate...it seems we won't see a major upgrade until at least the summer

Third, I really think there will be some sort of hardware device released. What about an airport express with photo capability? What would be really cool would be if they put a wireless chip in the iPod, so you could play music and photos on your stereo and tv without having to go back to your computer. That would be the perfect answer to the media center.

Finally, it seems evident that we will see a flash iPod. Hopefully they will come up with something better than the screenless prototype.

zelmo

Dec 10, 2004, 02:20 PM

snip...Sadly, I think the only thing we're gonna see at MWSF is a flash iPod. HAS JOBS FORGOTTEN THAT HE'S RUNNING A COMPUTER COMPANY?

No, Steve just realizes he is running a company that can't deliver their computer products on time and in quantity right now, and he is doing the only thing he can do which isn't going to kill stock price - focusing on the iPod, that darling of Wall Street.
If Apple could deliver a PowerBook G5 and/or a 3.0GHz PowerMac G5, they would in a heartbeat. They want to sell computers, because they make far more money on them than they do on any iPod. Steve will continue to use his RDF-generating powers to keep the focus off of Apple's inability to upgrade under-powered computer product lines, and keep that focus on how freakin' COOL the iPod is.
In other words, Steve is doing his job, the only way he can right now. Sucks, but it's life. Can't wait for iPodWorld SanFran! :rolleyes:

shamino

Dec 10, 2004, 02:37 PM

Wouldn't this make the iMac G5 obsolete? The only thing it would have over the eMac would be the screen.
That screen is worth an awful lot, IMO. Especially the 20" one.

And there's also the matter of size and weight. You can mount an iMac on a swing-arm and carry it around the house under one arm.

I dare you to try that with an eMac. Go ahead and try to lift one next time you're at the store. It weighs 50lbs! (Don't believe me? Check out the spec sheet (http://www.apple.com/emac/specs.html).

In comparison, the 17" iMac weighs 18.5lbs and the 20" iMac weighs 25.2lbs (spec sheet (http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html)).
But the eMac would have an 8X Superdrive and better graphics card for hundreds less.
What makes you think it will have a better optical drive or graphics card?

Apple doesn't work that way. They would never ship their best peripherals in their lowest-cost systems without also upgrading the higher-cost models.

If the eMac does get an 8x Superdrive and Radeon 9600 (which I highly doubt), then there will be similar upgrades to the iMac as well. But I personally don't believe the rumor.

quagmire

Dec 10, 2004, 02:58 PM

If the eMac does get an 8x Superdrive and Radeon 9600 (which I highly doubt), then there will be similar upgrades to the iMac as well. But I personally don't believe the rumor.

The eMac already has an 8x superdrive.

mai

Dec 10, 2004, 03:07 PM

New Powerbooks
G5s are nowhere near ready as are dual G4s. There will however be slight upgrades and price drops.
an why do we have to wait 'til wwdc for slight updates?? price drops would have been much more efficient before christmas, don't u think?
there will come a pb g5, dammed
_

shamino

Dec 10, 2004, 04:14 PM

The eMac already has an 8x superdrive.
Oops. My mistake. Silly me for assuming that someone else's wish list doesn't already exist as a shipping product. :rolleyes:

mkwilson68

Dec 10, 2004, 04:19 PM

There is *no way* that Steve will stand up in January and announce a trivial update to the PB - my guess is that EVERY effort is going into the PB G5, and that come hell or high water, it will be announced. The other items here are relatively inconsequential to Apple's bottom line: the PB is No2 to the iPod in importance to them right now.

My guess is:
PB G5 - shipping in a few months
Tiger - major new features shown for first time + ship date announced
Keynote 2 (finally)
Misc other minor bits

wdlove

Dec 10, 2004, 04:33 PM

Porcelina

Dec 10, 2004, 06:22 PM

I would say the powerbook upgrades seems so boring they´re problably true. Sadly. I would never have come up with such boring upgrades if i was to post fake specs... :) I´m hoping for G5s. Who´s not... :rolleyes:

joeconvert

Dec 10, 2004, 06:51 PM

I´m hoping for G5s. Who´s not... :rolleyes:

I can honestly say I rather have the low power consumption dual core G4 in at least one model.

Interestingly enough in the x86 world most folks like Dell have the dekstop replacement and the mobile systems. Granted the 17" PB has a tremendous amount of scree real estate, I don't feel there is enough real POWER difference between the ultra-mobile 12" and what can be argued to be a machien that has the size of a desktop replacement (17).

Oh well... there won't be different processor designs in Apple's mobile pro line. I will shut up now and take what I can get for the sake of the cult.

EDIT: "I heard that Steve's RDF will be the subject of the next Men In Black movie"

:)

x86isslow

Dec 11, 2004, 12:49 AM

Whoa .. whoa .. whoa ...

Some guy makes a guess ... he doesn't say anything about how he knows or why he'd be privy to such information .. .and it's posted as a rumor?

Give me a break. How can this site ever claim to be believeable when it does stuff like this?

To the poster ... I suggest posting to forums as a normal person and not as someone with inside information.

look n00b, this site is called mac 'rumors'

it has something called 'page 2' , which is where the stuff the admins don't think is so believable goes.

as for why this got posted- this site has had no real rumors in a long time, so mudbug put this up just to spark some discussion.

so calm you n00b as down and go get laid instead of starting fights with other n00bs. :rolleyes:

spaceballl

Dec 11, 2004, 06:24 AM

If they put an HD resolution LCD, that would be neat indeed, faster 8x superdrive, maybe 5400rpm HDD standard plus more ram. :)
I have a feeling they will save that fun stuff for the total overhaul the system gets when it has a G5. Looks like Apple is waiting for 65nm.
-Kevin

iMeowbot

Dec 11, 2004, 06:42 AM

Eh, that's all well and good (and probably on-the-mark), but we need something else... like a new hardware device or little piece of software. Something that's keynote worthy, not boring speed bumps.

In a dream the other night, this item was on CNN, so it must be true!
Socks were just the beginning. Apple and MGA Entertainment are to announce a new joint venture, Bratz Macz, a new line of stylin' clothing and accessories for your favorite computers and portable entertainment devices.

(If nothing else, this underscores the horror that is toy shopping.)

ncbill

Dec 11, 2004, 07:38 AM

Cyberpawz

Dec 11, 2004, 09:25 AM

I have a G4 17" Laptop, and the belly of the beast gets overly hot, unless they found a way to liquid cool the processors and the other components, you will not be seeing a Dual G4 laptop.

beatle888

Dec 11, 2004, 12:07 PM

Every single model that is not a DP G5 is trounced by PC competitors that cost less. When I go into the Apple store, the DP G5s are the only ones that make me think, 'wow this is fast.' When I play with the PBs and ibooks, I think, 'what is wrong with this thing and why is it so slow to react?.

the models in the store only have 256mb of ram. with a gig of ram you wouldnt ask why its so slow to react.

my girlfriend got an imac and loves it. even if you can get a pc thats cheaper you'll have to understand that she gets more use out of the imac and likes using it. guess what, she doesnt have any problems with the mac. shes not a computer pro and doesnt want to be. she just wants a computer thats friendly and another thing, she loves it so much she calls it her friend. shes developed a relationship with this little gem, what non computer pro pc user do you know who can say that?

she doesnt sit around trying to fix a computer, she sits in front of her computer using and loving it.

and another thing, im a graphics professional who works on photoshop files over 1.5gigs....i know about system performance and i can tell you that im not at all disappointed with this imac...why would i want a cheap headache labeled a PC.

wdlove

Dec 11, 2004, 12:17 PM

the models in the store only have 256mb of ram. with a gig of ram you wouldn't ask why its so slow to react.

my girlfriend got an imac and loves it. even if you can get a pc thats cheaper you'll have to understand that she gets more use out of the imac and likes using it. guess what, she doesn't have any problems with the mac. shes not a computer pro and doesn't want to be. she just wants a computer thats friendly and another thing, she loves it so much she calls it her friend. shes developed a relationship with this little gem, what non computer pro pc user do you know who can say that?

she doesn't sit around trying to fix a computer, she sits in front of her computer using and loving it.

A very interesting story. Does your girlfriend have a name for her Mac?

beatle888

Dec 11, 2004, 12:30 PM

A very interesting story. Does your girlfriend have a name for her Mac?

MeowMeow, but i dont see how that story is interesting, unless your some kind of perv taking it out of context. :p

Mord

Dec 11, 2004, 01:16 PM

there is not way the emac g5 will have a 9600 not unless the imac has one or something better, if it's to go g5 it may get a new form factor but i doubt it i think it will be like when the ibook went g4, a few cosmetic changes nothing elce.

the guy who posted this has no inside info apple would never call quicktime "quicktime NG" sounds too much like windows NT.

zach

Dec 11, 2004, 01:29 PM

Hector, I don't think the idea was that it would be NAMED Quicktime NG...

I think it was just the "next generation" version of Quicktime, thus the poster stuck the NG moniker on it. It probably will be just plain Quicktime 7.

spaceballl

Dec 11, 2004, 01:34 PM

The 9800m (and its X800 sucessor) is designed specifically for the DTR segment.
the 9800m is based off of the x800, not the 9800 desktop part.
-kevin

spaceballl

Dec 11, 2004, 01:35 PM

That simplifies Apple's need to stock replacement parts - with the change, they only have to source/stock two "consumer" motherboards - 1.6GHz and 1.8GHz.
the iMac and eMac motherboards are shaped quite differently.
-Kevin

nek

Dec 11, 2004, 04:58 PM

SiliconAddict

Dec 11, 2004, 05:13 PM

Oh goody. No PowerBook updates. *shrugs* I've stopped giving a damn simply because Apple has. And before someone tells me that it isn't Apple fault its about long term strategy something Apple has NEVER had. I truly believe that Apple can’t see 1-2 years in front of their face. Otherwise they would have been working with IBM on an alternative to the G4 in the PowerBook when they were working on the G5 for the desktop. Be that a revamped G3 or a scaled down G5. Don’t know. Don’t give a freaking care. The fact of the matter is Apple boxed themselves in and I hope to hell it bites them in the butt this spring/summer with craptastic sales. Yah if you can’t tell I’m a tad jaded. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/frusty.gif

Sun Baked

Dec 11, 2004, 05:16 PM

eMac 1.6 G5 for sure, but availability will be later than January.

It will use the lowest-end iMac G5 motherboard, and so will have the same specs, including the same graphics.

That simplifies Apple's need to stock replacement parts - with the change, they only have to source/stock two "consumer" motherboards - 1.6GHz and 1.8GHz.Problem is, while the design is the same the layout changes -- as does the new cooling system specifics, so they're unlikely to use the same part numbers.

While the all G4 DDR iBook/PowerBooks/eMac/iMac used the same basic unified motherboard architecture -- Apple needs to "fit" the board to the computer, and give the board the defining characteristic to differentiate it from the rest (FW800, spanning, audio in, etc.)

Expect a eMac G5 to use the current iMac G5's consumer motherboard architecture, but Apple could have something up it's sleeve that makes it different -- or simply just have a new motherboard shape that fits the odd eMac shape.

Also consider the SP PowerMac is using the iMac G5 architecture, and featurewise it's quite different from the iMac.

nek

Dec 11, 2004, 05:18 PM

the 9800m is based off of the x800, not the 9800 desktop part.
-kevin

The Mobility 9800 has 8 pipelines, is AGP, and uses DDR2 memory. The Mobility X800 has 12 pipelines, is PCI-Express, uses GDDR3 memory, and has better power management.

mklos

Dec 11, 2004, 06:58 PM

I agree with the 1.6GHz G5 and 533MHz bus for the eMac, but I think the graphics card will just be the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra that is currently used in the iMac and Powermac. The Radeon 9600 or GeForce 6200 are possible but unlikely.

And since this would make the eMac a little too competitive with the iMac, (yes the iMac has LCD, but still) the iMac will then move to 1.8 and 2.0GHz and the Radeon 9600 possibly with 128MB VRAM. This will happen either at the same time as the eMac or within 1 month. Hopefully Apple will also offer a graphics upgrade for the iMac, the Radeon X700 Pro, either as a separate model or much better as a BTO option just like internal Bluetooth.

I don't think that the Powerbooks will be limited to 1.67GHz, but Apple may not have a choice for now. I would also like for the Powerbooks to get the Mobility Radeon X800, but that will likely have to wait for the Powerbook G5 in the summer.

Something else I expect in January are faster Xserves. The 2.5GHz chips seem to be still in short supply, so maybe 2.3GHz like the ones at Virginia Tech.

The Powermacs will be upgraded in March or April. I expect single 2.0GHz on the low-end, along with dual 2.3, 2.5, and 2.8GHz. Faster RAM at 533 or 667MHz. Space for 3 or 4 harddrives, up to 400GB each. And the Radeon X850XT will be added as the highend graphics option.

And the iBook won't be upgraded until the Powerbook G5 arrives in the summer.

I think the eMac G5 will arrive at MWSF 05 running at 1.6 GHz with the 533 MHz FSB, 40GB SATA HD, 32x Combo Drive, with the same 17" Flat CRT. I think it should have a new design. IMO, the current design is butt ugly and I can't see how well it would cool a G5 processor. I'm hoping that they still sell the low end one for $799 instead of the rumored price of $899. $900 for your cheapest Mac is a little too much. By the time you spend $200 more for the high end eMac you might as well by an iMac G5. Apple also needs to really make sure that the eMac G5 doesn't ruin the iMac G5's selling pace. If they do what they did before and make the eMac and the iMac the same besides the display then iMac sales will once again fall as people opt for the cheaper eMac.

I would like to think that you'll also see a very small PowerBook update very early in 2005. This should hold everyone until the PowerBook G5 arrives in early to mid-summer, possibly late summer. Since 1.7 GHz G4 processors DO exist I would think that Apple would use these IF and only if they can keep them cool enough. Apple really needs to get the G5 PowerBook rolling though as its falling behind badly. It has a slower processor than the competition, slower FSB, slower HD's. The RAM, and the Graphics Card is the only thing thats currently up to snuff with the competition. The 17" PowerBook should have an option for 2 HD's like other 17" Widescreen notebooks. There's plenty of room for another HD.

I agree that the PowerMacs will be updated with a faster G5 running around 3 GHz, but I'm not expecting 3 GHz to arrive. I'd like to see at least a Dual 2.8 GHz PowerMac with a 160GB SATA HD, 533 MHz DDR RAM, PCI Express, ATI Radeon x800 (DDL?) and make it cheaper, selling at $2799 instead of $2999. I don't think Apple could make it possible to fit more than 2 drives in the current enclosure. Yes, I know there's kits you can buy to put more HDs in there, but they restrict the air flow, which will be very important with 2.8 GHz speeds.

Wonder Boy

Dec 11, 2004, 07:56 PM

$900 for your cheapest Mac is a little too much. By the time you spend $200 more for the high end eMac you might as well by an iMac G5.

yeah, i'm sure that's an accident.

Super Dave

Dec 11, 2004, 11:46 PM

Why is it always a goddamn school day? Man! I want to see it. One year I was sick so I got it. LOL.

Dude, skip! ;-)

David :cool:

VideoShooter

Dec 12, 2004, 12:25 AM

...

gekko513

Dec 12, 2004, 02:03 AM

VideoShooter: Since you're posting here you should know that Macworld San Fransisco is the most likely time for upgrades. When you buy any Apple product a month before the show you buy it because you need it there and then and you also know that what you buy has a big chance of being last generation hardware.

If you think the PB would fill your needs now, then it will still do that after an upgrade, even if there's a better value model that fill your needs even better.

Dells are upgraded from time to time, too, you know ;)

And to the subject in general: I'm hoping that the H.264 codec will be announced along with an Apple Online Movie Store. There hasn't been any rumors about this, though, but that kind of product would be easier to keep secret than most others. Remember where you read it first :D

Yvan256

Dec 12, 2004, 03:21 AM

Additionally suspect in the NON proving anything screen capture, since when does a trailer END with a clip of a movie? None do, they end with a dark screen. Notice the play/progress bar on this guys "proof," it's at the very end. A fake is a fake is a fake.

The timer marks 00:00 but the cursor is at the end... People don't even bother making good fakes anymore. :rolleyes:

Yvan256

Dec 12, 2004, 03:23 AM

The emac will not get a better GPU than the iMac G5. So that's out the window for sure.

Is the Radeon 9600 better then the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra?

He didn't say 9600XT nor 9600 Pro, only 9600. And the FX 5200 is the Ultra, not the 5200.

Is the 9600 lower than the 5200 Ultra?

Yvan256

Dec 12, 2004, 03:35 AM

eMac 1.6 G5 for sure, but availability will be later than January.

It will use the lowest-end iMac G5 motherboard, and so will have the same specs, including the same graphics.

That simplifies Apple's need to stock replacement parts - with the change, they only have to source/stock two "consumer" motherboards - 1.6GHz and 1.8GHz.

Indeed, with the pictures we've seen from the inside of the iMac G5, this would not only make sense, but would also allow Apple to use their current/old stock of iMac G5 motherboards in the eMac G5 when they decide to upgrade the iMac G5.

Even better, they could release another model: a headless consumer G5 box (and please stop pointing that SP PowerMac G5, it's NOT a low-cost option).

iMac G5 : G5 mobo with LCD
eMac G5: G5 mobo with CRT
?Mac G5: G5 mobo in a small box

Yvan256

Dec 12, 2004, 03:36 AM

I have a G4 17" Laptop, and the belly of the beast gets overly hot, unless they found a way to liquid cool the processors and the other components, you will not be seeing a Dual G4 laptop.

You can't compare your current, years-old design G4 with a brand-new, current technology Dual-core G4.

If anything, the Dual-core G4 could requires half of what your current G4 does.

Yvan256

Dec 12, 2004, 03:40 AM

the iMac and eMac motherboards are shaped quite differently.
-Kevin

At the moment, yes. But since the iMac G5 has modular parts inside it, nothing prevents Apple from using some parts in the eMac G5.

Heck, If I could purchase all the parts of the iMac G5 except the LCD and fancy casing, I'd like to see what price drop it'd have.

TorbX

Dec 12, 2004, 08:42 AM

Even better, they could release another model: a headless consumer G5 box (and please stop pointing that SP PowerMac G5, it's NOT a low-cost option).

Ooooh, yes yes yes, I simply LOVE rumoring about the headless non-PM box.

VideoShooter

Dec 12, 2004, 09:35 AM

...

shamino

Dec 12, 2004, 01:17 PM

I know I know... I'm not really buying the Dell. But I think I am canceling my PB on the way and waiting until MWSF. Damnit... Must wait for my 17" of FCP love.
Good idea. Never buy any Mac immediately before a major conference (especially MWSF). Place your order in January and get more bang for your buck.

Doctor Q

Dec 12, 2004, 01:30 PM

Good idea. Never buy any Mac immediately before a major conference (especially MWSF). Place your order in January and get more bang for your buck.You shouldn't completely rule out buying before announcements.

When you order right before a major Apple event, you risk missing out on price drops or new models, but Apple sometimes makes up for it with special deals that expire the day before the new announcements. When you can save hundreds of dollars on a new (about to be one-generation-out-of-date) system and get a free printer or extra RAM or other goodies along with the purchase, it's sometimes worth considering. Plus, it's usually well-known whether the products are in stock or have long lead times. In contrast, newly announced products are often high in demand and may or may not be available anytime soon after being announced.

If you pay attention, stay informed, look at price/performance, and consider both options, you'll be able to make the proper decision. If you aren't paying attention and aren't in a hurry to get your purchase in hand, by all means take the path of least resistance and order something newly announced.

wouterkestevens

Dec 12, 2004, 03:24 PM

I believe that the PB G5 will be annouced on the MWSF. If Apple is waiting any longer than january with a big update than it will lose many customers. I'm a mac freak but if you look at a HP portable. You can buy one of those for 3 time less than an PB.

Mord

Dec 12, 2004, 04:31 PM

while i agree the pb's are lagging behind a bit there i no way you can get an equally speced HP for a third of the price.

MacsRgr8

Dec 12, 2004, 04:31 PM

You shouldn't completely rule out buying before announcements.

Exactly. Because Apple know many hold off a purchase once a MW (or similar event) is coming within a couple of weeks, they make some interesting offers.
Mind you, Apple also really tries not to announce hardware updates at a MW event due to the expected loss of sale just prior to that event.
But Steve loves (and we love him doing it ;) ) to announce these cool new stuff, so IMHO, you'll always get rewarded if you'll wat ;) :D

h'biki

Dec 12, 2004, 04:39 PM

An anonymous submission today points to some possible releases at MWSF in January:

After playing with Motion quite a bit... my gut feeling is that Keynote 2 will use CoreImage to generate its transitions. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

sord

Dec 12, 2004, 06:37 PM

Honestly, I will be very upset if the eMac gets upgraded as claimed. I can't afford to buy a new computer and I buy on impulse :(

TheSith

Dec 12, 2004, 06:51 PM

wdlove

Dec 12, 2004, 07:26 PM

Powerbook upgrades AND price drops - yes please!

I am absolutely dying here waiting to get a Powerbook. A slight speed increase, a nicer video card (9800 > 9700 :D), and a price drop - what more could a guy want?

I know it isn't G5, I know it isn't dual-core, but it still looks darn fast to me.

You have a good attitude on the upcoming updates. This way you won't be disappointed. Then if there is a surprise, it will make you all the happier.

spaceballl

Dec 12, 2004, 07:40 PM

TWinbrook46636

Dec 13, 2004, 01:50 AM

Apple has announced entirely new PowerBook designs at Macworld SF every other year for a while now. 2001... 2003.... 2005..? Lets hope they stick with tradition. Things are looking good though. The last official PowerBook comments were "No G5 PowerBooks until 2005" and "The current PowerBook offerings will last through the holiday season" if I recall.

CMYanko

Dec 13, 2004, 07:51 AM

This post is missing the mark. While there may well be hardware announcements that come out of MWSF it is the softeware that will make up all of the keynote. Certainly OS X .4 will be most of that. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some iLife updates. I mean, here is this great core image/video technologies in the OS so we have to ask ourselves how might this stuff get used. A more robust iPhoto comes to mind. Betting image manipulation right in finder comes to mind. What about iMovie improvements? Even if just transitions and titles and the same for iDVD, more themes.

Think Software people.

darkwing

Dec 13, 2004, 08:33 AM

shamino

Dec 13, 2004, 09:35 AM

Mind you, Apple also really tries not to announce hardware updates at a MW event due to the expected loss of sale just prior to that event.
But this just means the announcements come out a week after that.

Like when I bought my Mac (Quicksilver-2002 G4). I waited for MW. There was no PowerMac announcement. I waited another two weeks, and then there was the announcement.

As a result of waiting I bought a dual 1GHz system for the price of a dual 800MHz system.

shamino

Dec 13, 2004, 09:38 AM

I love how people rationalize slipped roadmaps and botched timelines to make themselves feel better about buying a CPU that has been around for five to six years. Mhz is not the only thing holding back the G4... Its architecture is nowhere near current.
So you prefer..... what?

Something brand new that has no significant application support?

I guess, for you, the purpose of owning a computer is bragging to your neighbors about its capabilities instead of running your applications.

Some_Big_Spoon

Dec 13, 2004, 10:15 AM

I'm just wanting an increase in FSB in the PB. This thing is a dog compared to a G5 imac which is cheaper. I know, I know..

anyway, this 1.33GHz, 1.25GB RAM hotplate's just not cutting it, no matter what GPU you stick in it.

I'm waiting on price drops, should they come, at or after the keynote, then I'm ordering the maxed out imac in my cart. If a G5 emac's announced, I might get that one.. anything's better than these portables.

wibbler

Dec 13, 2004, 10:33 AM

anything's better than these portables.
Of course a G5 Powerbook will be ace, but isn't it funny how four years ago something with spec of a 17 inch 1.5mhz G4 powerbook would have been sensational.

And now it seems it's not worth having!

Have demands on computing moved that fast? What are we all suddenly doing with our laptops that need so much horsepower?

I love my 17 and won't go back to desktop only ever. But I can't claim it downloads these pages any faster than my mates old 400mhz CRT iMac when on the same network. It even seems to play its iTunes tracks at the same speed as mine!

If you REALLY needed power, wouldn't you get a G5 tower - not a Powerbook which is a compromise of portability over reliability over power.

darkwing

Dec 13, 2004, 10:39 AM

Of course a G5 Powerbook will be ace, but isn't it funny how four years ago something with spec of a 17 inch 1.5mhz G4 powerbook would have been sensational.

And now it seems it's not worth having!

Have demands on computing moved that fast? What are we all suddenly doing with our laptops that need so much horsepower?

I love my 17 and won't go back to desktop only ever. But I can't claim it downloads these pages any faster than my mates old 400mhz CRT iMac when on the same network. It even seems to play its iTunes tracks at the same speed as mine!

If you REALLY needed power, wouldn't you get a G5 tower - not a Powerbook which is a compromise of portability over reliability over power.

What we're doing is paying more for less performance compared to a Dothan. Those things have 533 mhz FSB in a portable and are in some cases out performing the p4 laptops and getting more battery life than my brand new "top of the line" 17" PB. Apple's failed to improve their technology in the last several years. One poster in this thread said it best about Apple going full bore on the g5 desktops and forgetting that their portables are a big chunk of their sales. (Especially educational.)

For now this 17" powerbook is good enough for me but I am not not a happy customer. I'll be getting a PC laptop and going back to Linux if Apple can't deliver me the power I need (or feel I need) soon enough.

The problem with your argument is that you're making excuses for Apple's laptops being second best by saying we don't "need it." That's the same argument people who don't like SUVs use. We all like to buy what we want. I want a PowerBook that doesn't choke on its own pathetic FSB.

Steve

wibbler

Dec 13, 2004, 10:55 AM

OK, some PCs may have more raw horsepower, on paper...

But they have an awful botch-up of an OS that can't harness it reliably or efficiently - and Linux isn't for every consumer - yet.

These PCs also look and feel awful, they are a collective style bypass.

Apples are too expensive (especially in England!!) but they are better build quality and they will always have higher resale value than the Dells etc in the future.

I don't want to apologise for Apple, far from it, they should be pushing the barriers a bit, even in portables ...maybe they are and they are about to stun us all once again ...

-- -- (and can they make Safari work properly please?) -- --

... I was just pointing out that a gig or so of G4 power is actually more than many of us NEED already!

zelmo

Dec 13, 2004, 11:06 AM

I agree with everyone that Apple needs to do something with the PB line, primarily because it has been a couple of years since a major rev, and it's about time for another one.

That being said, I don't fully understand what the horrible problem is with the current line. Yes, they are not G5's or dual-core G4's. Yes, the FSB is crippled at 167MHz. yadayadayada. But, apart from simply not being SOTA, they are sleek, gorgeous, and downright sexy. My wife's VAIO is a nice looking little laptop, but is downright ugly compared to my PB. They are fun to use, and work the way they are supposed to. My PB, which is not top-of-the-line (see sig), is plenty fast for what I do. Maybe I'm just used to slower computers (800 iMac G4 at home, and a 400MHz PowerMac G3 at work), so the PB seems fast by comparison. Maybe I'm not taxing it with the app's I use (Safari, Office, Adobe Creative Suite, iLife (incl. GarageBand and iMovie). What I find is that I hardly ever get annoyed with the speed at which things happen on my PB. It works as fast as I need it to. On those few occasions where I wish it'd hurry up, I am either trying to do too many things at once, or doing something I would not even have attempted on an older/slower computer.

Yes, get the G5 into the laptops as soon as you can, Apple. In the meantime, I'll be plenty productive on my "old" PowerBook.

darkwing

Dec 13, 2004, 11:38 AM

OK, some PCs may have more raw horsepower, on paper...

But they have an awful botch-up of an OS that can't harness it reliably or efficiently - and Linux isn't for every consumer - yet.

Well even with their botch-up OS, they manage to out render us, out game us, and out compile us. I'm appalled at how slow programs compile on my rev C 17" PB compared to my 2.6 ghz p4 linux box here at work. (I've been running Linux since 1995 when I got my first PC, so I don't mind it.) However, I've been able to outperfrom that linux box by several factors with some simple floating point tests I compiled on both systems. Big deal, though. I'd rather wait an extra 5 seconds for bogus floating point numbers on the linux box than wait an extra 2 minutes for something to build on the Powerbook.

The logic I hear from you guys is we already have more power than we "need" but you also says Mac laptops are better than PC ones. While I agree for the most part, power is part of being "better."

Macs are faster than PCs at things we do maybe 1% of the time. I do notice that my Mac "feels" faster than any PC I've used as far as browsing and opening windows and stuff. Last week I was burning compact flash card images with a PCMCIA-CF adapter and dd on a command line while burning CDs and typign up the documentation for the cards and CDs for an hour and the machine kept right on chugging along. I am confident no Windows machine could have handled that.

Steve

spaceballl

Dec 13, 2004, 12:30 PM

So you prefer..... what?

Something brand new that has no significant application support?

I guess, for you, the purpose of owning a computer is bragging to your neighbors about its capabilities instead of running your applications.

We're all mac users here which means our preference is Macs. If I had to buy a new Apple laptop these days, it would for sure be a powerbook. That being said, I'm not going to praise Apple for being behind the times... Sure their notebooks look nice from the outside, but a power laptop should be powerful.

Frobozz

Dec 13, 2004, 12:38 PM

I love how people rationalize slipped roadmaps and botched timelines to make themselves feel better about buying a CPU that has been around for five to six years. Mhz is not the only thing holding back the G4... Its architecture is nowhere near current.
-Kevin

I'm confused. Are you arguing that the Powerbook doesn't do the things you need it to, or are you arguing that it's not the latest technology? These are not mutually exclusive arguments.

I don't think you're ever going to see a PowerBook that can act as a high end desktop replacement. That's not why people buy portables. Portables have got to a point where they're fast enough for all the typical tasks users perform on them. Being a little faster is NOT a design goal if battery life and weight are affected.

My point is that the Powerbook does everything aside from replace a PowerMac or high end iMac. So why complain?

The PowerBook is the best looking laptop you can buy. It's usually cheaper than a equivalent spec'd PC latop. It's lighter. It's battery life is comparable. It has a great screen. It runs OS X. It has killer apps like Final Cut Pro and Motion available for it. More speed is always nice-- I'm all for it-- but there's really nothing wrong with the current crop of Powerbooks for the _vast_ majority of prosumers.

Frobozz

Dec 13, 2004, 12:42 PM

Well even with their botch-up OS, they manage to out render us, out game us, and out compile us. I'm appalled at how slow programs compile on my rev C 17" PB compared to my 2.6 ghz p4 linux box here at work.

Are you seriously trying to compare a 1.5 GHz laptop to a 2.6GHz desktop on a different CPU and OS architecture? Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

You should be comparing the 1.5 GHz mac latop to a ~2 GHz PC laptop. OR, you should be comparing a 2.6 GHz x86 linux "box" to a 2.6 GHz PowerMac.

sw1tcher

Dec 13, 2004, 12:42 PM

Is the Radeon 9600 better then the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra?

He didn't say 9600XT nor 9600 Pro, only 9600. And the FX 5200 is the Ultra, not the 5200.

Is the 9600 lower than the 5200 Ultra?

I believe the 9600 (pro or xt) is better than the 5200 ultra. The 5200 ultra is a dog.

sw1tcher

Dec 13, 2004, 12:43 PM

while i agree the pb's are lagging behind a bit there i no way you can get an equally speced HP for a third of the price.

I agree. Otherwise, I would have already bought one.

sw1tcher

Dec 13, 2004, 01:06 PM

OK, some PCs may have more raw horsepower, on paper...

Are you kidding? A similarly priced PC laptop will spank a powerbook. Probably the only thing the powerbook would outperform the PC in is Photoshop and the like.

But they have an awful botch-up of an OS that can't harness it reliably or efficiently - and Linux isn't for every consumer - yet.

Win XP is not that bad. I use it at work and everything runs fine. Programs are very responsive too.

These PCs also look and feel awful, they are a collective style bypass.

While PC's might not look as nice as Apple's offerings, they're far from awful. For example, IBM ThinkPads feel nice/are a real pleasure to use while Sony Vaio's look pretty slick. And they offer more bang for the buck too.

Apples are too expensive (especially in England!!) but they are better build quality and they will always have higher resale value than the Dells etc in the future.

Yes, Apple laptops do have a higher resale value, but let's not forget that Apple has put out a few bad Apple's... the (flaming) PowerBook 5300, the iBook with the logic board problems, white spots on PowerBook screens,....

... I was just pointing out that a gig or so of G4 power is actually more than many of us NEED already!

Maybe. But that's no reason for Apple to be slacking off when PC counterparts are offering more for the same price or less.....

Frobozz

Dec 13, 2004, 02:00 PM

Are you kidding? A similarly priced PC laptop will spank a powerbook. Probably the only thing the powerbook would outperform the PC in is Photoshop and the like.

That's not true. Try running more than a couple applications at a time and you will see any new Powerbook (with adequate ~1GB ram) do much better than a PC. In addition, the Mac _is_ designed for multimedia. It will do well,in Photoshop because that's what a lot of Mac user's use it for.

The bottom line is that it's very hard to compare the two. The PC may do certain UI or user tasks faster but be less responsive in low memory conditions and/or multitasking. I feel there's no way to really say one is faster than the other.

Win XP is not that bad. I use it at work and everything runs fine. Programs are very responsive too.

I agree that XP isn't terrible. It has some good features on the surface, but no matter how you dress the donkey you still have an ass. The second you have to screw around with viruses, spyware, or even configuring "plug and play" software-- the Mac kills a PC.

While PC's might not look as nice as Apple's offerings, they're far from awful. For example, IBM ThinkPads feel nice/are a real pleasure to use while Sony Vaio's look pretty slick.

IBM no longer makes laptops or PC's, and Vaio's have notoriously bad repair records.

let's not forget that Apple has put out a few bad Apple's... the (flaming) PowerBook 5300, the iBook with the logic board problems, white spots on PowerBook screens,....

I know you're able to cite the 3 incidents in Apple hostory that they shipped a defective product, but let's be fair-- the PC world has the same problems ALL of the time. Quality control in their hardware _and_ software is a major issue in the Windows commodity world.

Maybe. But that's no reason for Apple to be slacking off when PC counterparts are offering more for the same price or less.....

I agree that more power is always good... but style, weight, battery life, and OS are usually more important to a laptop user than spped.

wibbler

Dec 13, 2004, 02:52 PM

exactly how fast is a PC when it is dead in the water from a virus attack or laden down with spyware?

Sorry, but I had PCs for 25 years and Macs for the last four, and I ain't going back while PCs remain lousy bug-ridden boxes. And yes, I do use PCs, or more accurately fix them, all the time.

But at home, and for my own owrk, I use my powerbook.

And no, those Viao's are NOWHERE near as stylish as ANY portable Mac on sale today. And they DO seem to have serious reliability issues.

When I get my 17 out on a plane or a train, NO-ONE is lookign at the Viaos, Dulls or Stinkpads!!

shamino

Dec 13, 2004, 03:15 PM

Are you kidding? A similarly priced PC laptop will spank a powerbook.
Until you install the mandatory security software - like a virus scanner, spyware scanner and firewall. If you don't install all that, your computer will be reduced to slag within minutes of connecting it to the internet.

Once you are running all this software in the background, consuming memory and CPU time, your great and wonderful PC will no longer perform very well.
But that's no reason for Apple to be slacking off when PC counterparts are offering more for the same price or less.....
You seem to be implying that Apple doesn't want to release faster models.

If IBM doesn't deliver chips that can run cool enough for use in a laptop, a PB/G5 isn't going to happen, period. Slapping a desktop CPU in a small case (like they did with the iMac) isn't acceptible with a laptop, because you'd lose all your battery life. And the heat would injure customers.

darkwing

Dec 13, 2004, 03:42 PM

Are you seriously trying to compare a 1.5 GHz laptop to a 2.6GHz desktop on a different CPU and OS architecture? Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

You should be comparing the 1.5 GHz mac latop to a ~2 GHz PC laptop. OR, you should be comparing a 2.6 GHz x86 linux "box" to a 2.6 GHz PowerMac.

I don't expect the PowerBook to compile as fast as the Linux box. I do cross build to x86 on the Mac, so I'm building the same binaries, and the linux box might take 30 seconds and the mac would take close to a minute 15. A 2 ghz PC system would still be faster by far.

I watch the results just fly by on the PC, while the Mac seems to choke on it.

Steve

Freyqq

Dec 13, 2004, 04:53 PM

I use both PC and mac. I feel that PC makes better desktops and mac make better laptops...so I buy them accordingly. Also...if you build your own PC you get a much better deal (the PC i'm using now cost me about $600 and it can run anything i can throw at it :/). They simply don't make good PC laptops anymore unless you want some 10 lb cinderblock... Most companies don't even give PC laptops video cards anymore b\c the PC world is very uninformed about those kind of things and think mhz is everything... Anyways, I'm waiting for the next mac update until I buy a 12' powerbook to replace my aging one here.

spaceballl

Dec 13, 2004, 06:19 PM

Like I said, we're all mac users here. All this PC-bashing talk isn't really necessary. I think a lot of people, including myself, are saying that Apple isn't delivering what it should be to the line of powerbooks. Regardless of whether they are or are not, I'll be buying Apple computers. But when I see a 1.8ghz Pentium M in a small form factor laptop with Radeon 9800 graphics, maxed out ram, and a widescreen, it envokes envy... we want the PC people to be envying us. Right now they can only do that in the looks / OS department. Let's hope apple can get their laptop hardware up to snuff. They're not doing too badly in desktop land.
-Kevin

shamino

Dec 13, 2004, 06:40 PM

Like I said, we're all mac users here. All this PC-bashing talk isn't really necessary. I think a lot of people, including myself, are saying that Apple isn't delivering what it should be to the line of powerbooks.
It's very easy to throw around accusations, but it's foolish.

Yes, we know that the notebook Macs haven't been updated in quite a while.

Yes, we know that the performance gap between the desktops and the nodebooks has increased greatly as a result of this.

But to go that next step and claim that this is proof of some kind of incompetance or apathy is simply unwarranted. Does anybody seriously believe that they don't want to ship a faster PB? Do you think Jobs is deliberately crippling PB development in favor of iPods? Do you think that maybe IBM's problems developing low-power G5 chips might possibly have something to do with all this?

It's perfectly reasonable to point out that the current PBs are getting a bit old and that they really have to ship some upgrades soon. But the posts I'm seeing here are insane. Accusations? Threats? Promises to swich platforms?

What next? Hunger strikes? Do you seriously think any of this ranting is going to accomplish anything? Aside from making yourself sound just like the stereotypical hysterical zealot Mac user, of course?
Regardless of whether they are or are not, I'll be buying Apple computers. But when I see a 1.8ghz Pentium M in a small form factor laptop with Radeon 9800 graphics, maxed out ram, and a widescreen, it envokes envy...
Why? They need all that power to run a basic web browser, thanks to the massive overhead of their system software and all the obligatory security software.

In case you haven't seen the news, PC users are envying the Mac. They envy the fact that Mac users can do real work with their computers instead of spend all their spare time patching the system software.

cubist

Dec 13, 2004, 06:44 PM

Apple Store refurb units are available for eMacs in both versions - 12" powerbooks - and PM G5's in all speeds. I don't think the G5s being there is significant, but the eMacs and 12" powerbooks being there probably is.

spaceballl

Dec 13, 2004, 06:59 PM

What next? Hunger strikes? Do you seriously think any of this ranting is going to accomplish anything? Aside from making yourself sound just like the stereotypical hysterical zealot Mac user, of course?

I didn't expect to get an immature reply. They could have moved the G4 to a 200 mhz FSB and given us DDR400 memory. 7200rpm notebook harddrives are nothing new, and their power consumption / heat output is comparable to 4200rpm drives. etc etc etc. This isn't worth arguing though because when macs are hot, you'll shout that they're the best thing since sliced bread. If a certain apple product is having a crappy lifecycle, you'll pat the company's back, tell them it will be okay, and that you'll buy a mediocre product anyways rather than always demand the highest quality.

-Kevin

P.S. I promise i'm a staunch mac user cuz of the OS, architecture, style, usability, etc etc etc etc. I LOVE macs! I just give criticism where criticism is due, and many people would agree with me that the Powerbook line is one area that Apple could use a bit of criticism.

themacman

Dec 13, 2004, 07:07 PM

If the powermac and the imac r so different in procesers then why are the ibook and the powerbook so close together?

jettredmont

Dec 13, 2004, 07:57 PM

I don't expect the PowerBook to compile as fast as the Linux box. I do cross build to x86 on the Mac, so I'm building the same binaries, and the linux box might take 30 seconds and the mac would take close to a minute 15. A 2 ghz PC system would still be faster by far.

I watch the results just fly by on the PC, while the Mac seems to choke on it.

Steve

The x86 compiler module of gcc is, understandably, NOT at all optimized for the PowerPC. It runs, and allows for that functionality, but the Apple gcc focus is entirely on native applications. The logic being, of course, that a cheap Linux box is a better choice for compiling x86 binaries than your Mac. And the Linux box would give you the definite advantage of being able to actually test and debug your code as well.

Personally, I'm quite impressed with compile times on my dual 1.42GHz Mac. On my project at least, it's significantly faster to compile my app for OS X than it is to compile for Linux on a 2.4GHz P4. Both machines are a bit out-dated (my home 2x2 G5 does the build in less than a third of the time the G4 at work takes), but they represent a pretty clean snapshot in time as they were ordered within a month of one another and both cost about the same. 'Course, Microsoft's compiler on an identical 2.4GHz P4 blows the pants off either of them (not as fast as my G5 at home, but close!) making the Windows code.

Also realize, of course, that compilation is very disk intensive. The restricted drive paths of the laptop will always slow bown a build there.

darkwing

Dec 13, 2004, 09:25 PM

What next? Hunger strikes? Do you seriously think any of this ranting is going to accomplish anything? Aside from making yourself sound just like the stereotypical hysterical zealot Mac user, of course?
Why? They need all that power to run a basic web browser, thanks to the massive overhead of their system software and all the obligatory security software.

Actually the typical Mac zealot ignores the things we are pointing out or flat out don't live in the same reality that the rest of the computer world does. I find it refreshing. ;)

Steve

darkwing

Dec 13, 2004, 09:36 PM

The x86 compiler module of gcc is, understandably, NOT at all optimized for the PowerPC. It runs, and allows for that functionality, but the Apple gcc focus is entirely on native applications. The logic being, of course, that a cheap Linux box is a better choice for compiling x86 binaries than your Mac. And the Linux box would give you the definite advantage of being able to actually test and debug your code as well.

Compiling the same code natively for the Mac bogs compared to building on Linux as well for its native platform. The real problem here may just be that gcc for the mac sucks period, and not any platform related module. Maybe that's the problem.

Also realize, of course, that compilation is very disk intensive. The restricted drive paths of the laptop will always slow bown a build there.

I thought of this at the time and catted all the files to /dev/null first. This puts them in the dcache so disk speed is sorta irrelevant.

Steve

mrgreen4242

Dec 14, 2004, 01:23 AM

I know the G5 iMac is pretty new, but is there any chance of a price drop between MWSF and, say, early February? I am thinking about getting one, but I will definately be waiting till after MWSF, and could wait till sometime in early/mid Feb...

Rob

VideoShooter

Dec 14, 2004, 03:30 AM

...

etep

Dec 14, 2004, 03:45 AM

The rumoured Powerbook updates seem to arouse a lot of discussion (yet again). And many people are complaining about the lack of G5/dual-core G4. But it's a simple fact that Apple cannot use these processors in the PB yet and that's the end of it. People at Apple know that they need to upgrade the line but the only thing they can do now is to get the best possible performance from the old G4 as a stop gap measure. However, I would imagine that people vote with their wallets and the decreasing G4-PB sales figures should mean that the next-generation PB should be/become a very high priority for Apple R&D.

However, I'm happy with my G4-PB, bought in the beginning of May, for at least until revision B of Powerbook G5 comes out (whenever that is)...

VideoShooter

Dec 14, 2004, 04:07 AM

...

dernhelm

Dec 14, 2004, 05:11 AM

For those who are hating... a little proof from my source.

More to Come...

NN

Wow. I hope Evan doesn't mind you sharing his cell phone number with the world...

k28

Dec 14, 2004, 06:48 AM

What do you guys think about the new design of eMac G5?

I think the they will come up with white shiny, boxy design with 17" CRT screen (similar to iMac but longer becauce of screen), slod load drive, but no aluminium stand. Which is might be interesting or blaaaaa... :rolleyes:

What do you think?

Phaeox

Dec 14, 2004, 08:07 AM

xiola

Dec 14, 2004, 08:20 AM

I am wondering of there will be a powermac speedbump and if pci-x will become pci-express. I do hope so.
Bu since the dual 2.5's are only shipping for 2-3 months the update time for those machines is quite short. But the dp 1.8 and 2.0 machine's have been around for 6 months now. So maybe only a speed bump for those (2.0 and 2.3)
If they drop pci-x that market will become a very small one so it will be harder to expand your mac for users with those slots.
But for apple it would be better to change to pci-express, as they might have learned from the nvidia 6800 delivery problemo's.

wdlove

Dec 14, 2004, 08:43 AM

I think that there will be a Power Mac update. It may not be at MWSF. Probably it occur sometime between January and February. Hopefully there won't be the delivery problems.

Chomolungma

Dec 14, 2004, 09:29 AM

A slot load drive would be awesome for the emac, and i think a good 17" moniter is basically a given for an emac, 19" is excessive. I'm also hoping for better speakers, although the educational market would have little use for them.

A strong economic agrument can be made, by putting the current iMac motherboard and all of its components into the eMac without much modification. I think a 19" monitor may be necessary, because a 19" provides a bigger base. The cost difference between a 17" and a 19" CRT monitor is very small (if at all), however, the cost to design a new motherboard for the eMac is much more.

-Chomo

gopher

Dec 14, 2004, 09:36 AM

A strong economic agrument can be made, by putting the current iMac motherboard and all of its components into the eMac without much modification. I think a 19" monitor may be necessary, because a 19" provides a bigger base. The cost difference between a 17" and a 19" CRT monitor is very small (if at all), however, the cost to design a new motherboard for the eMac is much more.

-Chomo

19" CRT base? You can barely get a handle on the eMac because of its surface. And a 19" would be prohibitively heavy. It might fall over on its own weight!

dalamarian

Dec 14, 2004, 09:51 AM

gopher

Dec 14, 2004, 10:03 AM

I am a prospective PBook buyer, my background has been primarily linux at home and Windows in the work place.

A lot of points have been brought up about the lag in Pbook hardware and the number of vulnerabilities in Windows etc etc as arguments for both sides.

What I'd like to say is that I consider myself a true "power user", as such I am not worried about the plauge of patches and spyware because they are not a problem for me (either because of running linux or I just have automated processes / common sense to avoid vulnerabilities). But being a power user, I want ease of use AND power because of how much of my life is spent on the bloody laptop.

Quite simply, the Power Book isn't there yet. In general, I have been very unimpressed with Apple hardware till the G5 processor came out. And quite frankly, the G5 processor is still not the top dog in the market. However, that IS a sacrifice I am willing to make to get the rest of the benefits that go with being an Apple laptop owner. I will not sacrifice down to the levels of a G4 processor. To be quite honest, I am not sure if a dual core G4 will appease me. Just seems like a stop gap or bandaid rather than a true solution.

The opinion I always had of the pbook was "yes it is expensive, but it is a luxury you want to pay for" Just not yet for me..

ok there are my ramblings. incoherent at best :)

My Powerbook G4 1.33 Ghz 17" screen has more than enough power to accomplish most any task. Unless you have used the machine, don't judge it by Mhz alone. The G4 is a much more efficient processor than the Pentium and able to do more with less Mhz. It isn't how fast the processor is, it is how much you are able to get done with it in an amount of time, and how frequently it needs to be updated to have all the best features.

For more, see:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/09.html

Mr Maui

Dec 14, 2004, 10:19 AM

"3 GHz Within A Year!!" [emphasis added] !!!!

Are we on Pluto time? :confused:

I think it's time to remember the users that MADE Apple, and not just the ones making Apple RICH!!! ;)

toontra

Dec 14, 2004, 10:27 AM

My Powerbook G4 1.33 Ghz 17" screen has more than enough power to accomplish most any task. Unless you have used the machine, don't judge it by Mhz alone.

For audio/video editing raw cpu power is essential. Many of the current audio apps I use would barely run on your setup.

I'm glad you are happy with what you've got, but don't knock those who demand higher performance (equivalent to PC) to do their work - we're not talking about saving a few seconds rendering, we're talking about being able to run the apps we use at all.

dalamarian

Dec 14, 2004, 11:10 AM

Yes I understand about mhz not being the only measure of a processor performance, I have been a loyal AMD owner for 7 years now. I also used to be an avid overlocker till I preferred stability over blazing speed. So the whole various specs (cache, fsb, compile optimizations, core, fab size architecture, ipc, etc etc) have already been taken into account.

And yes I have used a pbook g4 (15") for a couple weeks because a very kind friend lent it to me to try out.

And "more than enough to accomplish most any task", this isn't enough for me (and yes I am not expecting cluster performance numbers either for those with a sense of houmor)

My Powerbook G4 1.33 Ghz 17" screen has more than enough power to accomplish most any task. Unless you have used the machine, don't judge it by Mhz alone. The G4 is a much more efficient processor than the Pentium and able to do more with less Mhz. It isn't how fast the processor is, it is how much you are able to get done with it in an amount of time, and how frequently it needs to be updated to have all the best features.

For more, see:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/09.html

Yvan256

Dec 14, 2004, 01:41 PM

I believe the 9600 (pro or xt) is better than the 5200 ultra. The 5200 ultra is a dog.

There *is* a Radeon 9600 (not XT nor Ultra)... right?

Is the Radeon 9600 better than the FX 5200 Ultra?

Yvan256

Dec 14, 2004, 01:47 PM

If the powermac and the imac r so different in procesers then why are the ibook and the powerbook so close together?

If I read you correctly (and it isn't easy), my answer is this: the iMac just got updated, and the PowerBook can't get updated.

I hope this answer your question.

i_am_a_cow

Dec 14, 2004, 04:25 PM

I'm making no claims as to the validity of this - just thought I'd pass it along.

Anonymous could be anyone though. Did they claim to be speculating, or claim to know things?

kdawg

Dec 14, 2004, 04:31 PM

Judging from the topic of this thread (MWSF Announcements Details) and the fact that just about every posting to it has some discussion centered around an updated/redesigned powerbook it is quite obvious to me that there will be is a big need for apple to revamp the current powerbook. So it would be safe to say that this fact is probably pretty obvious to the higher ups at apple.

What really gets me laughing is the fact that there is SO much speculation from you guys about what apple is going to put out when you have no real idea what parts bin these machines will be put together from.

Futher more....Given the track record (From what i have read) with regards to new Apple products making it to production without their spec's being leaked to the internet.. I would assume it quite possible to keep a new Chip/motherboard architecture under raps without anyone knowing that it exists.

Making assumptions about what can be built with current inventory is like saying that they are going to redesign a current model car with existing parts.... Not exactly making it New just different... whle this can be true... remember, some things stay the some most other components are redesigned...

Another thing I keep thinking about is the fact that Apple totes the powerbook as a high end laptop... so if they release a new 64 bit OS Q1 wouldn't they want to make ANY of the items that they target to "power users" take advantage of utilizing that new OS rather than just being able to run a 64 bit OS on a 32 bit Laptop that is built for "power users" off of aging technology... Um.. that just doesn't seem to logical from a marketing/common sense stand point.

My crystal ball says changes for powerbook in JAN...And that is when I will be switching..... but I am just a newbie.... So I don't know that much.

BTW,
Will the current 15' powerbook be sufficient to handle any studio applications for making music... I see a lot of powerbooks as mandatory equipment for a lot of artists.... This is one of the reasons I want a MAC…. Will the current powerbook be enough to handle my needs of producing music?

Thanks,
kdawg

starstreak

Dec 14, 2004, 04:59 PM

Powerbook 12.1 @1.5Ghz w/ati 9700 64mb? Man I hope you're wrong as that is everything that I wanted in teh PB I just bought. Funny thing is Apple Store return policy for Christmas is Jan 8 and the keynote is on the 11th. Damit.

Squire

Dec 14, 2004, 05:29 PM

Good points, kdawg. That company is good at keeping things under raps. However, the chips that Apple uses are not secret. As far as I know, Apple is not the only one able to purchase G4 and G5 processors so the info on the Freescale and IBM websites is public.

Squire

Freyqq

Dec 14, 2004, 07:01 PM

There *is* a Radeon 9600 (not XT nor Ultra)... right?

Is the Radeon 9600 better than the FX 5200 Ultra?

Don't get me started on the Geforce FX 5200... I own a Geforce FX 5200, a Geforce 3 ti200, and a Radeon 9600 xt. A PC program called 3dmark03 is a very popular video card benchmarking app.

results:
geforce 3 ti200: 850
Radeon 9600xt: 4000
Geforce FX 5200: 450

It's very sad when a 3 generation older card beats a new generation card... Unfortuantly, apple tends to use the Geforce FX 5200 in 1/2 its computers...I refuse to buy any of those models. On the bright side, the Geforce FX 5200 is probably better than the onboard video that most pcs have these days :).

spaceballl

Dec 14, 2004, 09:28 PM

What really gets me laughing is the fact that there is SO much speculation from you guys about what apple is going to put out when you have no real idea what parts bin these machines will be put together from.
Clearly, that's why it is speculation... What really gets me laughing is the fact that you mock the speculation... and then take a few paragraphs to speculate :D :p :o

OasisNYK

Dec 14, 2004, 09:46 PM

Isnt speculation what makes posting on these threads so fun? It seems like your real issue is that people have been too conservative in their forecasts...you on the other hand believe there will be some major upgrades. Who knows for sure - but we arent that far from finding out the truth.

I think a lot of posters have been basing their opinions on Apples history at MW and thats why you see so many conservative speculation posts. I think everyone on here would prefer to see a G5 in the powerbook or at least dual core G4's - its just that the odds arent that good.

HomesliceJ

Dec 15, 2004, 03:08 AM

Now in my opinion, i seem to think Apple will not deal with CRTs any longer. i assume that the current eMacs were leftover Apple Studio Displays (the ADC version) and they just stuck G4 processors in them. I just think Apple needed to get rid of their leftover CRTs so they made an eMac to get rid of them.

Just looking at apple's history of computers, they always milk out their massive deal of manufacturers on specific products. So apple likes to use old stuff and make it new.

Other case studies: If you notice the repeating of technologies from one computer to another, the powerbook G4 12" screens are the same as in the iBooks and even from the recent G4 and goin back to the clamshells. The 14.1" screens of the ibooks is similar to the old pismo G3's.

Now looking at this pattern, my prediction is the new eMacs would have to be an LCD screen using probably left over 4:3 non-wide 17" screens similar to the old iMacs and Apple Cinema Displays.

Now with it being a G5 is highly unlikely. It might be a more powerful G4 i predict since motorola is still dishing them out. So i don't know if it'll look like an imac, but should be somewhat similar. I think they might go back to the "lamplike" iMac look with a rectangular base rather than domeshaped for easy access and fix for AppleCare. The eMac are supposed to be the most "affordable" mac. But the way the iBooks are becoming so cheap, it seems like world of eMac will just end very soon. There goes the constant "e" that seems to confuse many customers already.

If mac wanted to expand the idea of eMac for School and iMac for home; They might want to make different size eMacs that will retain the 4:3 ratio. Most likely i'm thinking of the 12", 14" and the 17". So it'll be small enough to fit on their desks. And it may be touch screen so young kids can use it easily. plus a good new run of a new technology.

zelmo

Dec 15, 2004, 06:54 AM

I've in the camp that speculates there will be no major PowerBook announcements prior to WWDC at the earliest. I'll go out on a limb and further speculate that everyone in that camp would very much like to see a major PB intro'd at MWSF next month. The only people I can imagine NOT wanting this would be those who have very recently purchased a new PB thinking there would be no chance for a major upgrade in the near future.

Apple has publicly stated there will be "no new PowerBooks before 2005." Certainly, they would make this announcement to calm the waters and keep some volume of PB product moving. After all, if they announced that there would probably be a G5 PB in January or FH '05, sales of the current model (as priced) would certainly all but cease.

The fact that Apple had to use some laptop-sized parts just to get the G5 into an iMac, and still needed a two inch thick enclosure to make it happen (with an extra four inch chunk of space below the display and some creative ventilation, to boot), does not make many people overly optimistic that a compact laptop with a G5 processor is imminent. We have been spoiled by our thin and light PowerBooks. Can't imagine Apple putting out a 12 pound, 2 inch thick behemoth of a laptop, even if it had wheels and a retractable handle. Simple logic applied to a situation, based on pure speculation and the few hard facts available, suggests Apple does not already have a G5 laptop available simply because they can't get it the way they want it.

We could easily be wrong. Want to be wrong. Would loved to be WOW'ed in January. Not holding our breath. Hedging our bet.

To any who feel I have spoken for them out of turn, I extend my sincerest of apologies. Get over it! :D

Yvan256

Dec 15, 2004, 10:07 AM

Don't get me started on the Geforce FX 5200... I own a Geforce FX 5200, a Geforce 3 ti200, and a Radeon 9600 xt. A PC program called 3dmark03 is a very popular video card benchmarking app.

results:
geforce 3 ti200: 850
Radeon 9600xt: 4000
Geforce FX 5200: 450

It's very sad when a 3 generation older card beats a new generation card... Unfortuantly, apple tends to use the Geforce FX 5200 in 1/2 its computers...I refuse to buy any of those models. On the bright side, the Geforce FX 5200 is probably better than the onboard video that most pcs have these days :).

Well, this doesn't really answer my question about the Radeon 9600's power (like I said, I think there's a Radeon 9600 that's neither PRO nor XT), but it does show the FX5200's very low numbers (I mean come on, it gets beaten by an old GeForce3?!)

kdawg

Dec 15, 2004, 10:27 AM

Clearly, that's why it is speculation... What really gets me laughing is the fact that you mock the speculation... and then take a few paragraphs to speculate :D :p :o

you on the other hand believe there will be some major upgrades. Who knows for sure - but we arent that far from finding out the truth.

Let me clarify.... I do not make any speculation as to

1:) What kind of updated/redesigned powerbook we will see
2:) When a new powerbook will be intorduced... However I do think that there will be some changes to the powerbook in Jan... So I don't know how you equate Major Upgrade to that.

What I do speculate about is what possibilities could arise given current history of apple common sense about how companies can hide a new product until it is released.

I make NO Refference to a "Majore Upgrade" in Jan or anything of the sort. Just what would be common sense for apple to get done in order to keep powerbook sales from shrinking.

spaceballl

Dec 15, 2004, 10:41 AM

Well, this doesn't really answer my question about the Radeon 9600's power (like I said, I think there's a Radeon 9600 that's neither PRO nor XT), but it does show the FX5200's very low numbers (I mean come on, it gets beaten by an old GeForce3?!)
As far as the 9600, when ATi released the chip to OEMs, it was really vague in specifying what exactly a standard 9600 was, a 9600 Pro, etc. The rating was to be based on clockspeed, but they gave ranges and let OEMs decide where to clock these chips. But basically, they are all the same chips. The difference between the three would just be some clock speed swings either way.
-Kevin

Freyqq

Dec 15, 2004, 11:19 AM

As far as the 9600, when ATi released the chip to OEMs, it was really vague in specifying what exactly a standard 9600 was, a 9600 Pro, etc. The rating was to be based on clockspeed, but they gave ranges and let OEMs decide where to clock these chips. But basically, they are all the same chips. The difference between the three would just be some clock speed swings either way.
-Kevin

Those numbers are benchmark numbers...not clock speed. Also, all three cards were not oem...they were from a store so they were prob at their max. All tests were done on the same computer too. The point of me tell you the benchmarks wasn't to make the 9600xt look good, just to make the Geforce 5200 look bad :/ A friend of mine with a 9800 pro got a 6000 on the same test...so there are definately better cards out there. I would imagine onboard video would rate at about 100 since that is prob their baseline. About 9600 pro and normal vs the xt...normal prob gets about a 2700 and pro gets about a 3500 (i googled 3dmark03 + 9600 + radeon).

ncbill

Dec 15, 2004, 11:33 AM

I notice today macosrumors has the new eMac G5 with a "revamped enclosure" and better quality CRT.

The "revamped enclosure" was rumoured before, and was the reason I speculate the lowest-end iMac G5 motherboard would be used.

Flare out the plastics on the bottom for a more rectangular shape (mold in handles near the bottom, as well, PLEASE), and the iMac G5 motherboard should fit nicely in the redesigned eMac.

Of course, given the below, I wonder if I shouldn't just buy one of the current eMac G4s (at $649 for combo, $799 for Superdrive eMac refurbs):

http://macintouch.com/perfpack/comparison.html

numediaman

Dec 15, 2004, 11:44 AM

Apple rumors for 2005 . . . boring, boring, boring.

The existing product line . . . yikes.

(No, I'm not a troll -- just an Apple user/buyer still waiting for Apple to wake up from its long sleep. I joined this forum one year ago, and am still waiting for an excuse to buy a new Apple desktop.)

gopher

Dec 15, 2004, 11:53 AM

gopher

Dec 15, 2004, 11:56 AM

I might add companies are always comparing their music players to the iPod, but the iPod keeps on its astronomical growth, and market share. Some are even claiming the iPod is a monopoly! The iMac G5 sales have been great, and have been given much better reviews than I've seen for any Apple computer in a long while. Granted their marketing is all web based, but if you go to http://www.macsurfer.com/ every day, you'll see Apple is anything but asleep.

-mouse

Dec 15, 2004, 01:09 PM

I just came across this link. Check this out!

http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2004-04-15#1931

-mouse

-mouse

Dec 15, 2004, 01:21 PM

Sorry that was really old news, I just realized. my bad...

wdlove

Dec 15, 2004, 01:30 PM

I just came across this link. Check this out!

http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2004-04-15#1931

-mouse

That must be a typo or wishful thinking on the part of the author. Very unlikely that we will see a PowerBook G5 anytime in the near future.

KindredMAC

Dec 15, 2004, 02:06 PM

G5 eMac: Maybe... kinda doubt it though for this expo. I can see this one coming out in April/May with a revised iBook

PowerBooks: I thought the DualCore G4's were ready and willing to go??? Someone had posted that they weren't ready. I thought they had been ready since like October?

Even if they keep the original G4's here's what I think about the posting, I think it would be the best thing they ever did to that line if they cleaned up the line and stopped offering 5 different models. 3 models are perfect. One system for each screen size. Clean, Elegant and sophisticated like Apple has come to be known as.

Keynote: No Duh. We all think we saw KN2 on the screen at the Apple/U2 iPod convention anyways....

QuickTime NG: Not sure about this before Tiger comes out. Star Wars is BOGUS, unless what they mean is you can save the TEASER Trailer from the web with this new QT. Batman would be cool. $19 is N-I-C-E though.

Here's what I think people are forgetting about.....

iLife '05: Makes sense.... iLife '04 came out this time last year. Why name it iLife '04 if you aren't planning on an iLife '05?????
There will be new features in iMovie and iPhoto, especially iPhoto to take advantage of the iPod Photo. iTunes will get updated too. I think available Feb 2005

iPod Flash: Already making 'em. Gotta announce it sometime!

iPod Mini ver 2.0: Ditto

Apple Works 7.0 or a Microsoft Office Killer app: Been rumored for a while now. Gotta be getting close to done sometime.

.Mac: Cheaper and included FREE with all new consumer Macs (ibooks, imacs, emacs) for one year. (digging REALLY deep in my ass to pull that one out) :D

drsuse

Dec 15, 2004, 06:44 PM

PowerBooks: I thought the DualCore G4's were ready and willing to go??? Someone had posted that they weren't ready. I thought they had been ready since like October?

Even if they keep the original G4's here's what I think about the posting, I think it would be the best thing they ever did to that line if they cleaned up the line and stopped offering 5 different models. 3 models are perfect. One system for each screen size. Clean, Elegant and sophisticated like Apple has come to be known as.

dual core g4's were announced in october, not in production yet as far as we know.

Frobozz

Dec 16, 2004, 03:29 PM

I am a prospective PBook buyer, my background has been primarily linux at home and Windows in the work place.

A lot of points have been brought up about the lag in Pbook hardware and the number of vulnerabilities in Windows etc etc as arguments for both sides.

What I'd like to say is that I consider myself a true "power user", as such I am not worried about the plauge of patches and spyware because they are not a problem for me (either because of running linux or I just have automated processes / common sense to avoid vulnerabilities). But being a power user, I want ease of use AND power because of how much of my life is spent on the bloody laptop.

Quite simply, the Power Book isn't there yet. In general, I have been very unimpressed with Apple hardware till the G5 processor came out. And quite frankly, the G5 processor is still not the top dog in the market. However, that IS a sacrifice I am willing to make to get the rest of the benefits that go with being an Apple laptop owner. I will not sacrifice down to the levels of a G4 processor. To be quite honest, I am not sure if a dual core G4 will appease me. Just seems like a stop gap or bandaid rather than a true solution.

The opinion I always had of the pbook was "yes it is expensive, but it is a luxury you want to pay for" Just not yet for me..

ok there are my ramblings. incoherent at best :)

Well, you make good points. Especially since you are a potential switcher. I think it boils down to the ease of use that OS X delivers for your daily routine. That translates into "speed." It really does. Although I have played devil's advocate on the G4 vs. G5 issue in the PB line, I do agree a G5 PowerBook would be an instant sale from me.

Let's face it-- the iBook is just fine for the people who want to stick with the G4. The G5 _does_ need to be in the PowerBook sometime soon. If they release a 1.67 GHz G4 I'd be happy, but a 1.67 GHz G5 would be a no brainer. I'm curious if the performance would be that much greater, though. The G5 thrives in environments where bandwidth and power are abundant.

Your thoughts?

duklaprague

Dec 17, 2004, 04:24 AM

Third, I really think there will be some sort of hardware device released. What about an airport express with photo capability? What would be really cool would be if they put a wireless chip in the iPod, so you could play music and photos on your stereo and tv without having to go back to your computer. That would be the perfect answer to the media center.

that would be great. there is this talk of a remote for AEx, but they already have one - the iPod. all they have to do is get it working. an Aex attched to every stereo in the house - just take your iPod to the room and away you go. they really have to do this.

i'm not so bothered about the whole PB thing - only had ours for a year, and would expect it to last another few yet - by them i'm sure i'll be able to upgrade to a shiny new G6 PB!

iLife 05 would be nice, as its something i use a lot - perhaps some new DVD themes, and more control over the ken burns effects in iMovie. just day to day stuff really, and i'll be happy.

Iain

John Rivers

Dec 17, 2004, 05:28 AM

Here is my personal opinion on what will happen at MWSF, based on what I would do an a manager and how marketing and timing could play a large role in this...

For starters...

I have a strong feeling that come MWSF, Apple will announce an official release date for Tiger. The only other large scale opportunity to announce such an important thing would be the next Macworld, which is unlikely since is occurs past the "first half of 2005" estimate that Apple has given us. MWSF is an ideal largescale platform to announce this. The announcement will begin a usual "OS X countdown" and buzz will begin to form again around Apple. The timing is correct too: iMac G5 buzz will be dying down, so the next logical step to intice people with Mac is Tiger.

With the announcement of the new OS, excitement will be in the air. I think Apple will also announce an updated Powermac at this point, possibly with the dual 3 ghz chips promised a while ago, and updated architecture. These powermacs will use faster DDR, and include PCI express. In other words, it will be the perfect power machine for the new power OS. It seems like it would help for Apple to release such an update now to give time for people to order it, production, etc.

What else? What else...obviously the new mini and flash iPods. iLife '05 is a given, I think, as is Keynote...o yes, the Powerbooks.

Look, Powerbook G5 ain't ready. They had a difficult enough time with the iMac and heat issues, and I really would be (pleasantly) shocked if the g5 laptop was ready. The way I see it is this...it'll either be the powermac, or the powerbook. Apple needs to address it's pro users at this Macworld, cause they've left them in the dark for a bit. It won't be both. Since Powermac is WAY more likely and feasible...and because I am waiting until they DO update the powermacs until I get one...I'm going with the Powermac.

As for the .7 something increase in ghz for the Powerbooks and a lower price...the price would have to be much lower, or the speed increase way higher...why waste Keynote time wowing a massive audience with a pointless, incremental increase? iBook did that without any presentation. SO, again...Powermacs need love.

Questions or comments, please? If I missed something or am obviously wrong please lemme know...I really want a Powermac update... :)

MacSA

Dec 17, 2004, 07:05 AM

wdlove

Dec 17, 2004, 11:21 AM

Isn't it a little unusual that here we are just a few weeks away from one of the biggest Mac conventions and we have no reliable information/rumours on new computer hardware? It's all iTunes iTunes and iPods.....sooooo boring.

Maybe something REALLY big is coming out and Apple have managed to keep it secret ;)

Steve always seems to announcement that is unexpected. Apple is just very good at keeping secrets. Look at all the design ideas for the G5 iMac.

carlos700

Dec 17, 2004, 09:14 PM

gopher

Dec 17, 2004, 09:29 PM

AppleWorks 6 is completely outdated. PowerBook G4 is underpowered.
Those two products need to be updated. No more 100 or 200 MHz speed bumps on PowerBooks either every six, seven months. That's sad. Apple needs to start focusing more on their computers now.

Coming from someone who only has a 700 Mhz G4, you are sorely mistaken. I have an iMac G4 800 Mhz, and a Powerbook G4 1.3 Ghz. A world of difference that can't be accounted for in terms of Mhz exist between those two machines. I think Apple added some other things that made this 17" Powerbook a lot more powerful than my old iMac. And that old iMac has 768 MB of RAM. I thought I was satisfied with its performance until I got this machine. I'd say some things appear to run as many as three times faster. And the Powerbook only has 512 MB of RAM. Just because your 700 Mhz G4 seems slow at certain things doesn't mean they haven't improved the G4 that much since then. And if you are having speed issues with Mac OS X, please check this FAQ:

http://www.macmaps.com/Macosxspeed.html

carlos700

Dec 17, 2004, 11:02 PM

Coming from someone who only has a 700 Mhz G4, you are sorely mistaken. I have an iMac G4 800 Mhz, and a Powerbook G4 1.3 Ghz. A world of difference that can't be accounted for in terms of Mhz exist between those two machines. I think Apple added some other things that made this 17" Powerbook a lot more powerful than my old iMac. And that old iMac has 768 MB of RAM. I thought I was satisfied with its performance until I got this machine. I'd say some things appear to run as many as three times faster. And the Powerbook only has 512 MB of RAM. Just because your 700 Mhz G4 seems slow at certain things doesn't mean they haven't improved the G4 that much since then. And if you are having speed issues with Mac OS X, please check this FAQ:

http://www.macmaps.com/Macosxspeed.html

First off, I know the G4 has been updated since. But that isn't my point. The fact that PC Notebooks have far more features than the PowerBook G4 does for the same price is hurting PowerBook G4 sales. In addition, PC Notebooks have 256 MB Video Cards, Dual Hard Drives, 1920-by-1200 Resolution Displays, faster processors, and 8X DVD Burners. The PowerBook G4 is quite fast -it just needs more standard features than it currently has.

mugwump

Dec 18, 2004, 03:10 AM

All this hype about the powerbook G5 and complaints about OS X speed from those running older machines.

Any "power user" number one requirement is multitasking ability, which is the main benefit of OS X. Linux is also stellar in this regard, but certainly there is virtually zero user time spent maintaining aspects of the Mac OS drivers, builds, etc. so tack that onto the "speed" equation, unless your time ain't worth dirt.

Debaters wax on about the speed of AMD compared to the G5, but how much is mentioned about entire task completion over the course of a day, weeks, and months? Sure a Photoshop filter may execute faster per second on an Athlon, but it still takes a minute to regain control of the menus in XP where it's not an issue in X. Speed is how rapidly assignments are checked off per hour, day, and week -- not per second.

The G4 spanks the G5 with unoptimized code, which is most of it out there right now. Add to that a handicapped laptop system bus compared to a desktop, lower mHz chips, and increased power dithering -- why the desire for a mobile G5 just on the face of it...marketing?? The only sexy draw would be 64bit linux, but that's just flashy hubris unless manipulating the local Oracle database or crunching Protein models.

Certainly, pure G5 application code catapults performance into the stratosphere, but the waiting game is never-ending. I do believe that the fence-sitters are blown away after the purchase of a Powerbook and do not look back -- a glow that lasts long enough to purchase the next generation.

Higher res screens are required for any Powerbook update, though. The OS X interface is large enough to handle it, especially those massive finder window bezels. The current offerings are lacking.

Lets see: Mac OS, Unix, Linux, and XP all running on one G4 Powerbook -- The Holy Grail of computing.

Squire

Dec 18, 2004, 04:37 AM

The G4 spanks the G5 with unoptimized code, which is most of it out there right now. Add to that a handicapped laptop system bus compared to a desktop, lower mHz chips, and increased power dithering -- why the desire for a mobile G5 just on the face of it...marketing??

I often hear people talk about this handicapped system bus. Would it possible for Apple to simply up the bus speed with the next rev? If so, what kind of performance boost would we see? Finally, why would they cripple it in the first place? I can see the logic behind electronically limiting a sports car's top speed (for lack of a better analogy) but I don't see it here. Maybe they've been waiting 'til they were in a crunch (i.e. now) before pulling that ace out of their sleeve.

Squire

Pringolian

Dec 18, 2004, 04:55 AM

I really do not believe that Apple will give us such a minor update on the PowerBooks. It's been said many times before... If they were going to do that, then they would have done it quietly along with the iBook not so long ago.

The gap between the iBook and PowerBook is now ridiculous (closed) and Apple need to reclaim their mobile-pro market by making the PowerBook stand out again as a professional mobile tool.

If they are going to upgrade the PowerBook line, I can't help but think that they have the G5 up their sleeve (ready to announce in Jan and ship 2 months later anyway)!

I can't remember who it was from Apple who recently said 'The G5 PowerBooks are not as far off as you think'.

Can anybody find this?

IF IT IS A G4 Upgrade though, I would expect:
1.7/1.8Ghz G4 with slightly faster Bus speeds, 80Gb 5400rpm as standard, 8x DVD-R (Dual Layer won't happen unless PowerMacs get it) and maybe even a new display with a bit of a design update.

Not long now anyway ;)

BWhaler

Dec 18, 2004, 07:34 AM

Anyone think Apple will release an emulator which will be stand alone or part of OSX?

I know it is way out of the box, but they can't be happy about MS having them in the corner with this. And it's not like releasing a competitor to Office which would anger M$ greatly.

Just trying to get out of the box...

Zaty

Dec 18, 2004, 10:04 AM

Pringolian

Dec 18, 2004, 10:17 AM

That makes sense... I don't think many people will be very happy with the new specs though! I'm currently using the PBook G4 1.5Ghz (17")

I think they need to make that G5 switch pretty soon for the release of Tiger 10.4 and so on...

I dont know, I'm confused. Lets see what happens in January....

:confused:

Pringolian

Dec 18, 2004, 11:30 AM

Another thing I was thinking about... Do you think Steve would comission a G5 PowerBook with a bigger case? It wouldn't necessarily be that much heavier and with Ives on the team, it would still be carefully designed so it impresses us all.

I can't help but think that they could release a PowerBook G5 that is 1 and a half inches thick just like the time he released a G5 Tower that was absolutely massive and pretty basic looking in comparison to the older G4's. There is absolutely nothing that states they have to get it into a 1" enclosure right now! As long as Steve and Jon Ive made a little blag promo ad for the website/TV like they did with the iMac then they would get away with it very very easily ;)

Also if Apple were to do this it would give them longer to figure out how to get it into a smaller enclosure for a 2nd revision about 6-8 months later (dual core?)... That would make their 2nd revision look like an even more impressive achievement when it arrived.

It's Just a thought
Now which one of you is going to shoot me down... :p

Yvan256

Dec 18, 2004, 11:37 AM

An anonymous submission today points to some possible releases at MWSF in January:

I do have the scoop.

The G5 generates too much heat, and requires too much power. But people want their PowerBook G5 anyway.

Apple can't release something that doesn't look stylish. But they need a way bigger case (for heat) and a way bigger battery (to keep the G5 running more than a few minutes).

So, the only option is the following...

Introducing: The 20" PowerBook G5! The biggest laptop on earth!

Ok, you can go back to real comments now. :D

Pringolian

Dec 18, 2004, 12:38 PM

Wo.....

I mentioned nothing along those lines :p

I seem to remember mentioning that with Jonathan Ive anything is possible and he really could make the thing work in terms of design!

1.5" is not the biggest laptop in the world, still smaller than most PC laptops. Also, Apple have been working on this for a long, long time!!!

They have been testing new batteries, liquid cooling and G5 processors in old G4 cases at Cupertino for absolutely ages (the stories have been leaking left, right and center).

I'm pretty confident they could run a 1.6Ghz - 1.8Ghz in a new stylish 1.5" enclosure by March 2005 and I was just sharing my thoughts on the fact :D

I definately do not think this is impossible or an implausable idea
We are talking about Apple here
;)

Yvan256

Dec 18, 2004, 03:25 PM

Wo.....

I mentioned nothing along those lines :p

Bah, I'd still rather see a huge 20" PowerBook. Now THAT would be impressive! :D

What I'd want, though, is more something around a 8" iBook mini... Not a PDA, but a palm-sized laptop (sub-notebook?).

Widescreen 8" LCD (800x480 or 1024x600, no idea what's available right now), G3/700 with Altivec (doesn't IBM have one of those? In any case, it needs to have the absolute minimum for iLife' 05, nobody's going to expect this little laptop to actually breeze through the apps, especially iMovie), 256MB on-board (max 768MB or 1.25GB?), 40 to 80GB HD (same HD as regular iPod to keep the laptop smaller?), headphones out, line out and S-Video out built-in without any external adapter needed (to use as a portable media player), one or two USB 2.0, one Firewire 800, wireless (802.11b, no need for 802.11g on such a thing?). To keep it small, it has no CD drive and no touchpad, but does have a touch-screen (could even twist 360 degrees to use as a tablet, perhaps? At this size it would actually be usable as a "tablet", IMO). Priced to compete with the extreme high-end Pocket PCs.

Say hello to iBook mini, your portable iLife.
Only 499$US.

Hey, anything's possible for the next MWSF, right?

Pringolian

Dec 18, 2004, 03:31 PM

Anythings Possible....

Too true ;)

gamestriker

Dec 18, 2004, 04:12 PM

This is going to be dumb question but...

Are we sure with complete certainty there won't be any updates to the iBook at MWSF? I'm trying to decide whether to get my iBook before MWSF (like tomorrow) or after MWSF (Jan 11.). I don't want there to be a heck of surprise last minute that would make me regret buying the iBook now. I'm not interested in PB because the iBook seems like much better deal, especially for students headed to college in the fall (i.e. me).

mrgreen4242

Dec 18, 2004, 05:02 PM

Bah, I'd still rather see a huge 20" PowerBook. Now THAT would be impressive! :D

What I'd want, though, is more something around a 8" iBook mini... Not a PDA, but a palm-sized laptop (sub-notebook?).

Widescreen 8" LCD (800x480 or 1024x600, no idea what's available right now), G3/700 with Altivec (doesn't IBM have one of those? In any case, it needs to have the absolute minimum for iLife' 05, nobody's going to expect this little laptop to actually breeze through the apps, especially iMovie), 256MB on-board (max 768MB or 1.25GB?), 40 to 80GB HD (same HD as regular iPod to keep the laptop smaller?), headphones out, line out and S-Video out built-in without any external adapter needed (to use as a portable media player), one or two USB 2.0, one Firewire 800, wireless (802.11b, no need for 802.11g on such a thing?). To keep it small, it has no CD drive and no touchpad, but does have a touch-screen (could even twist 360 degrees to use as a tablet, perhaps? At this size it would actually be usable as a "tablet", IMO). Priced to compete with the extreme high-end Pocket PCs.

Say hello to iBook mini, your portable iLife.
Only 499$US.

Hey, anything's possible for the next MWSF, right?

You're basically describing the HP Jornada Handheld PC on crack. I'd LOVE to see something like this from Apple. It would have to be $600 or less in order to not step on the iBooks toes, this is something I have trouble seeing Apple do. :(

However using a touchcreen for the 'mouse' input sucks. If it were a tablet form factor device, it would be usable, but as a folding sub-notebook, it sucks. It's very uncomforatable and unnatural to use. I think that having a touchpad that slides out like a CD-ROM tray would work better.

LimeiBook86

Dec 18, 2004, 08:19 PM

What I'd love to see.

PowerMac: New G5, my dad has been waiting to upgrade his G4 AGP, at least Dual 3.0 or 3.2ghz or higher would be wonderful

PowerBook: Very high G4 (2.0ghz) or Low-End G5 (1.6-1.8ghz), 100gbHD, 8x DVD±R drive, FW800 and better graphics card at low-end. Lap protection pad to prevent burns. ;)

eMac: 1.7ghz G4 (Dual?) 80gb HD, LCD would be too expensive. These machines are great as they are. Maybe add FW800.

iPod: More space? Of course they will be updated... everyone just bought them for the holidays...yay!

iPod Mini: 5gb, smaller and smoother...Color? *shot*

iPhone: I can dream can't I? Accepts the new smaller MultiMediaCard (The small small versions that I've recently herd of), iTunes, iPhoto compatible. Bluetooh....USB?

iLife '05: iMovie, instant-titles, transitions, Like FCP, - iPhoto: Faster, iPod Photo support, - iDVD: More themes (again...)...Faster encoding while running the program. Better codec to fit more video on disc. GarageBand: Faster...more loops, new features? iTunes: ...I can't think of anything here...

Fun Stuff: iChat AV for Windows, iLife'05 for Windows,....Mac OS X for Windows....Apple announces the new PowerBook G5 free with iPod Photo purchase to make things sell faster...lol

I'm just guessing here...nobody get excited. I'd really like to see that 3.0+ghz for the PowerMac G5, my dad needs a new computer and this would knock his socks off. I don't see how they can make the iPods much better, same with the PowerBooks...they'd get WAY too hot...

Hahahaha, ho ho ho!

Happy Holidays... :D :cool:

Yvan256

Dec 18, 2004, 08:27 PM

You're basically describing the HP Jornada Handheld PC on crack. I'd LOVE to see something like this from Apple. It would have to be $600 or less in order to not step on the iBooks toes, this is something I have trouble seeing Apple do. :(

Even the Jordana runs WinCE, can't even run 98SE on that. If Apple does make an "iBook mini" it has to be no different than their other laptops (that is, it must run OS X, full, regular, non-modified, non-compact version). Basically take a previous-generation iBook G3, and make it ultra-compact (don't really care about the thickness as long as it stays the same, but the overall size has got to shrink down. Funny how I've seen "iBook mini" concepts, but the guy simply made it thinner... That's not mini at all!)

However using a touchcreen for the 'mouse' input sucks. If it were a tablet form factor device, it would be usable, but as a folding sub-notebook, it sucks. It's very uncomforatable and unnatural to use. I think that having a touchpad that slides out like a CD-ROM tray would work better.

Depends on taste I guess. I hate touchpads since there's no way to be as precise as a regular mouse, I can use the "trackpoint" from IBM without much problems (you can be precise with practice), but touchscreen is better in my opinion (it's like a touchpad, but you've got a much bigger surface to point, and you point directly at what you want to "click"). Perhaps you're not used to them and/or you've used crappy ones?

In any case I don't think that "slide-out" touchpad is a good idea (moving parts are more fragile, and in such a small laptop it would require too much internal space to be worth it).

How about a compromise solution? I wouldn't say no to a built-in trackball... (and it works better with MAME for Marble Madness). :D

mai

Dec 19, 2004, 08:17 AM

I do have the scoop.
The G5 generates too much heat, and requires too much power. But people want their PowerBook G5 anyway.
So, the only option is the following...
Introducing: The 20" PowerBook G5! The biggest laptop on earth!

yah, yah, since about 1 1/2 years the same argue, don't u think these 2 tremendous corporations apple and ibm can reduce power consumption/heat generation through new techniques? it can't be that just moto, intel or amd are competent enough for this holy grail, a special adapted cpu or maybe also less high systembusses would help or also active and passive cooling on the other hand, a lot of options, i would say ...

_

Zaty

Dec 19, 2004, 12:40 PM

My guess is MWSF will be mostly on Tiger and iPods. I don't expect too much on the hardware front. Since I only expect a new Albook revision, I'm not even sure if Apple will announce them at MWSF. I wouldn't be surprised if they were silently released a couple of weeks after MWSF. I guess it's a given that Steve Jobs will run a new Tiger demo. But I don't think he will already announce the official release date. From what I've read, the latest Tiger builds don't seem to be at a close to release stage yet. SJ might give a hint as to when we can expect Tiger, instead of "in the first half of 2005" the official wording might be changed to "in the second quarter of 2005". After all, don't forget the official release date of Panther was only announced three weeks in advance. A January or early February release just doesn't seem possible. As for iPods, an update for the minis seems a good bet, however despite all the rumours, I'm still skeptical about a flash iPod. iLife 05 is possibility, too, but Apple might release it together with Tiger if the latter was ready for a spring release.

wdlove

Dec 19, 2004, 06:06 PM

It does seem that many of the hardware updates have been done without the fanfare of a major Apple event. So we may very well see some updates to the PowerBook and Power Mac coming later in January or February. PLease though with out the delivery delays.

Pringolian

Dec 19, 2004, 06:21 PM

I still think PowerBook G5's are on the way and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a simultaneous release for a few products. I do however agree that these big events are not the place to do it. I think we will see shipping dates for the beginning of March (delays, inevitable).

I have just got a feeling that Apple are gonna go 'bish bash bosh' - there you go... 3Ghz PowerMac, 1.8Ghz PowerBook G5 and OS X Tiger, now give me your money, stop your moaning and bugger off :D (Oh... and start the rumors on the eMac/iMac G5, the multi-core G6, Video iPods, iTheatre, Radio iPods and Wireless entertainment servers.

It would still be nice to get a preview of upcoming hardware at MWSF with later shipping dates.

Crazy World Made of Apples....

PS: I have done a bit of a cut and paste job to try and imagine what the G5 PowerBook would look like. Any ideas (or anyone got any concepts of their own?)

http://www.spymac.com/upload/gallery/f_89/user_898747/upload_317248.jpg

LimeiBook86

Dec 19, 2004, 09:39 PM

Looks good but the removable faceplate for the ports is a bad idea, moving parts = breaking parts. Looks nice though, power port should be a tad bigger...(makes the laptop look too big)

;)

Scott Swain

Dec 19, 2004, 11:24 PM

I think this is what's coming based off of my research, but what do I know... im a "nOOb":

• Powerbook G5 or Dual Processor G4 (Have to do something)
• Tiger 10.5 (Release of iLife)
• iLife 05 (Built around Tiger)
• eMac Upgrades (Must Do)
• Keynote 2.0 (Already been Showed)

and the newest member to the "i" family

drum rollllllll please....

• "iPad" = TABLET PC "The Wireless Device for Your Life"
Base Specs:
- G4 Processor 1.2ish GHZ
- OSX Software
- Firewire
- USB 2.0
- Ethernet
- Bluetooth Wireless Keyboard (Accessory)
- Wireless Video
- 5 hr battery
- 8" - 12" screen
- 0.6" thin
- And some "CRAZY GADGETS" that only Apple is capable of coming up
with (perhaps first to see afforadbel wireless video in a hand held
computer)

We will see some industry firsts here, Apple will take advantage of the Tablet PC market based off of sales, and show the industry a first (for new techology)!!! like with the iPod... this is everyones answer to the video iPod, and wireless capabilities for it... too much technology to fit into a tiny iPod shell... they need a nice compact mini iBook for these new features!!!

I do not think they will add a flash ipod just yet, they are already doing too well with the iPod, they will run with it for a few more months, then once they have EVERYONE hooked, then they will drop the "must have" ipod flash!!

mrgreen4242

Dec 20, 2004, 12:06 AM

Even the Jordana runs WinCE, can't even run 98SE on that. If Apple does make an "iBook mini" it has to be no different than their other laptops (that is, it must run OS X, full, regular, non-modified, non-compact version). Basically take a previous-generation iBook G3, and make it ultra-compact (don't really care about the thickness as long as it stays the same, but the overall size has got to shrink down. Funny how I've seen "iBook mini" concepts, but the guy simply made it thinner... That's not mini at all!)

Depends on taste I guess. I hate touchpads since there's no way to be as precise as a regular mouse, I can use the "trackpoint" from IBM without much problems (you can be precise with practice), but touchscreen is better in my opinion (it's like a touchpad, but you've got a much bigger surface to point, and you point directly at what you want to "click"). Perhaps you're not used to them and/or you've used crappy ones?

In any case I don't think that "slide-out" touchpad is a good idea (moving parts are more fragile, and in such a small laptop it would require too much internal space to be worth it).

How about a compromise solution? I wouldn't say no to a built-in trackball... (and it works better with MAME for Marble Madness). :D

I've used lots of good touchscreens on laptop styled devices. It's just not a comfortable way to work on a small computer. It's not to bad on a full desktop with a monitor that isn't right in front of your keyboard. Try it sometime... you have to lift up your arm from the shoulder to do any mouse work. It get's really uncomfortable after about 15 minutes.

I agree that moving parts is probably a bad idea... that only leaves one of those little eraser head in the middle of the keyboard thingies. I personally can be very accurate with a touchpad (can play fps games with them after a little warming up). I find the trick is not to slide your finger around, but use a fat thumb and roll it around, changing the center of contact, and settign the sensitivity up kinda high. However, I know not everyone is comfortable with them... however, no one can be comfortable with a laptop touch screen for more than 15 minutes of regular mouse work. Your shoulders just can't hold up to that kind of abuse. (It's not bad if you are holding the thing in your lap or something, but if it is up on a desk/table, it's excruciating).

Anyways, I wanted to add that I don't think we will see a G5 eMac or a Dual CPU emac. Probably have one more revision of the G4 before they roll out a 1.6ghz eMac and a 1.8/2.0 iMac upgrade around the same time. I'm guessing:

- PowerMacs - no announcement at MWSF, but short afterwards they will slip in an upgrade. Single CPU version goes to 2.0ghz, with full 1ghz FSB. No more dual 1.8ghz's, but the 3.0ghz's will be announced and ship relitively soon afterwards. The 9600XT will become standard on all dual CPU machines. The single CPU will keep the 5200Ultra awhile longer. Will Apple get a clue and offer 512MB ram as standard on the high end models at least? Probably not, but who knows!

- 1.5ghz G4 eMacs, with the a GPU that is CoreImage ready... either the 5200ultra (much to iMacG5 users dismay =p) or a version of the 5200Go?

- PowerBooks go to 1.33ghz (12"), 1.5ghz (all 15") and 1.72ghz (17"). The top two models will get 128mb VRAM standard, the 12" will go to 9600 mobilities.

- iBook - No change... have to give the PBs a chance to 'pull ahead' for a bit.

- iMac - sadly, no changes in GPU for the iMac. After the eMac goes G5 it will get a better video subsystem and a speed bump, but not till then.

- iPod - mini goes to 5gb, flashPod announced as 512mb for $149, 1gb for $199.

- Tiger - Demo of some new features we have heard about already, and also some sort of 'suprise' feature that isn't in any builds yet, but will be in the final release. Nothing revolutionary, but something that hasn't been done yet. Release will be announced as 2nd quarter or Spring '05, or something else equally vague.

- iPhone - Will be mentioned that Apple has a new product in the works for this summer, with Motorola, but nothing specific will be said.

- Keynote will be featured, of course. No suprises there.

That's what I think... probably wrong all the way down the list, but it's fun the speculate :)

Happy Holidays,

Rob

Zaty

Dec 20, 2004, 01:20 AM

- PowerBooks go to 1.33ghz (12"), 1.5ghz (all 15") and 1.72ghz (17"). The top two models will get 128mb VRAM standard, the 12" will go to 9600 mobilities.

Rob

The 12" PB already is at 1.33 GHz, as is the 15" at 1.5 GHz. They have to increase CPU speed a bit. So the 12" will get a 1.5 GHz G4. That way, it keeps a small distance to the iBooks

Pringolian

Dec 20, 2004, 04:34 AM

Looks good but the removable faceplate for the ports is a bad idea, moving parts = breaking parts. Looks nice though, power port should be a tad bigger...(makes the laptop look too big)

;)

Thanks :), too true to all the above... I couldn't find a way of keeping the style relatively G5 looking without the ports hidden in some way but I agree the panel would break. I might try and fix it when I get bored again sometime this week... have you seen any PowerBook G5 concepts on the net? If so could you post some links. Cheers ;)

weldon

Dec 20, 2004, 10:14 AM

I'm thinking iLife '05 might be possible, but I wonder if they will tie it to Tiger or not. While some features might require Tiger for the core audio, video support, I think Apple would make a lot more money if they were to sell iLife '05 separately to everyone that has iLife '04 and runs OS X 10.3.

If it were me (and it's definitely not), I would schedule iLife '05 to release at the same time as Tiger, support 10.3 but also include some Tiger-only features/acceleration, sell it separately at $49, sell Tiger at $99, and sell a Tiger/iLife bundle for $129 (or a mail-in rebate for $20 with proof of purchase for both).

Yvan256

Dec 20, 2004, 10:57 AM

Not sure if it's been done before, but here goes anyway.

Okay, I'm officially bored. :D

Pringolian

Dec 20, 2004, 11:03 AM

Very Nice.... :D

wdlove

Dec 20, 2004, 11:46 AM

puckhead193

Dec 20, 2004, 04:03 PM

aynone know if it's going to be broadcasted over the internet live?

Doctor Q

Dec 20, 2004, 06:58 PM

aynone know if it's going to be broadcasted over the internet live?The Macworld San Francisco keynote will almost certainly be available as a live QuickTime broadcast, judging from past years.

CaptainCaveMann

Dec 20, 2004, 07:09 PM

I think apple is teasing us with the powerbooks. They are making these stupid little processor bumps but soon they are gonna release a 1.8 standard g5 in the powerbook and Boom! All hell will break lose and we will all be saying thanks apple we always knew you had it in you :rolleyes:

wdlove

Dec 20, 2004, 07:09 PM

aynone know if it's going to be broadcasted over the internet live?

If they do the same as last year it should also be available live at your local Apple Store. It was streamed live via satellite. It was great to view it live with other Mac enthusiast's and the store staff. Our local store even set up chairs. My wife has ask for the day off from work.

MarcelV

Dec 20, 2004, 07:50 PM

aynone know if it's going to be broadcasted over the internet live?

I hope it will be live, but I don't think it will. Steve seems to be very upset over the leaked Q97 information. But I am sure one of the rumor sites will do something 'live' through IRC....... I hope....

Mord

Dec 20, 2004, 07:57 PM

if i ran apple i woluld pull out all the stops to make the fastest notebook in the world a dual 1.8/2GHz g5 powerbook in a new thicker case alongside single g5 powerbooks in the old thin case, the duals with 9800's and the singles with 9700's and no dual for the 12".

&RU

Dec 20, 2004, 09:40 PM

Apple isn't getting any more of my money until the Dual 3ghz G5 Powermacs hit the street. I was rather hopeful that this would be on the bill for this keynote... I am sure Steve would love to announce it.

weldon

Dec 20, 2004, 10:22 PM

I'm more and more convinced that the keynote is going to be 50% iPod/iTunes, 40% Tiger, and 10% on feel-good fluff like the grid supercomputing projects, photoshop benchmarks, and educators using Macs.

iPod/iTunes-
* 200+ million downloads
* iPod marketshare
* Bono of U2 on stage
* New countries announced
* AirTunes update
* Belkin bluetooth "remote"
* Motorola phone coming
* iTunes ringtone store
* iPod mini update (5GB) - still $249
* iPod flash (1GB) - $229 (and everyone will complain that it should be $199)

Tiger-
* architecture overview
* dashboard (showing entries from contest)
* automator
* Spotlight
* CoreImage/Audio/etc.
* iLife '05 optimized for Tiger w/ CoreImage, etc. h/w acceleration
* extensive iLife '05 demos
* The Edge of U2 on stage for GarageBand 2 demo
* release quarter (no specific date yet)

I'll be shocked if there's any hardware announcements in the desktop or portable lines.

[post corrected to "200+ Million"]