1.33 ibook vs. 1.33 pb

[CaptainCaveMann]

I know the front side bus is slightly faster on the pb and the memory also runs faster on the pb but from a users prospective is there really that big of a difference in the processing speeds of the two???

[mcgarry]

I don't know how reliable their testing is (I don't mean it's bad, I mean I have no idea how to judge such a thing), but you can probably piece together comparisons from here:

http://macspeedzone.com/index.php

They don't have a head-to-head, last I checked, but both are tested.

Remember also that with the PBooks you are getting faster/better video cards, with more VRAM, faster HD options, gigabit ethernet (not on 12"), FireWire 800 (not on 12"), PC Card slot (not on 12"), the ability to add an external non-mirrored display, etc., in addition to the faster bus/RAM.

[Jdm_rsx]

i see that the PB uses different ram...as if it really matters? does it or does it not?

im not sure whats the BIT rate on the PB's? 32? only G5's are 64 right?

thanks!

[maya]

i see that the PB uses different ram...as if it really matters? does it or does it not?

im not sure whats the BIT rate on the PB's? 32? only G5's are 64 right?

thanks!

Yes a G3 and G4 are 32bit chips

A G5 is a 64bit chip

The powerbooks have PC2700 ram and the iBooks have PC2100 ram.

Not much of a difference, even the system bus is very close. Buy an iBook if you want to save money. Buy a PowerBook if you need the audio IN ports etc..

It has already been noted that the iBook and PowerBook 12" performance is very very close and its not worth to spend the extra on the powerbook and much better to settle for the iBook unless you need the ADVANCE features and ports.

Stick with the iBook.

[CaptainCaveMann]

What matters is the mhz that the ram opperates on the pb at 333 mhz vs. 266 on the ibook. Also the front side bus on the pb is 167mhz vs. the 133 front side bus on the ibook. The front side bus has a lot to do with how fast the processor runs think of the p4 mobile with a 533 front side bus vs. the home desktop p4 running at an astonishing 800 mhz front side bus. Now i already know the pb is faster and what not but the question here is from a users prospective meaning someone who has the pb and the has used an ibook or vice versa did you really notice that big of a difference in the processing power?

[CaptainCaveMann]

Yes a G3 and G4 are 32bit chips

A G5 is a 64bit chip

The powerbooks have PC2700 ram and the iBooks have PC2100 ram.

Not much of a difference, even the system bus is very close. Buy an iBook if you want to save money. Buy a PowerBook if you need the audio IN ports etc..

It has already been noted that the iBook and PowerBook 12" performance is very very close and its not worth to spend the extra on the powerbook and much better to settle for the iBook unless you need the ADVANCE features and ports.

Stick with the iBook.Why would i need audio in ports? Can i plug in a microphone on an ibook and record? Can i plug in external speakers on the ibook?

[Jdm_rsx]

in a way, i believe that PB may have a higher resell value in the near future...if u ever plan on sellin it anyways

extra video always helps...i suppose.....so i duno...its too late for me...i already sold the iBOOK and got the PB..

i only have 256 ram now i dont want to shell out another 200-300 ram....at once...so i get ram w/my next paycheck = )

[maya]

in a way, i believe that PB may have a higher resell value in the near future...if u ever plan on sellin it anyways

extra video always helps...i suppose.....so i duno...its too late for me...i already sold the iBOOK and got the PB..

i only have 256 ram now i dont want to shell out another 200-300 ram....at once...so i get ram w/my next paycheck = )

*cough* *cough* that is what you think that a PowerBook has a high resell value think again, its worse unless you plan on selling it within 3-6 months of purchase. An iBook you will not lose as much, since even if you spend 999 on it the most you will loose is 100-200 in value, can't say the same for the powerbooks.

[maya]

Why would i need audio in ports? Can i plug in a microphone on an ibook and record? Can i plug in external speakers on the ibook?

Some audiophiles like to take they tapes and records and convert them to digital files and audio in on a powerbook helps also for recording in a music studio.

If you know no clue what these things are chances are you will not require them and not use them so I would go with the iBook. You can also buy USB audio in products if you plan to go that way. :)

[Jdm_rsx]

i think powerbooks have better resell value BECAUse they are better, more options and well rounded in most areas ...faster is always better, there are some ppl like you...that wnats to save money and get something decent / cheap...there will be others that want something decent but GOOD ...

get the idea? i dont think its cuz of the small differences that was listed above

i mean specs speakin...ya notmuch

for the price difference, im sure it has to do something overall about the PB...

i try to be neutral about both sides...and not to be bias...or put anyone down with my comments...

[iJon]

PowerBook is hardly worth the purchase right now if you are looking at a 12". You can add bluetooth to the iBook. For sound in just purchase an iMic. For monitor spanning you try doing to the firmware crack, not recommend though.

If you have to have native DVI support and a DVD burner in a 12" package then the PowerBook is the obvious choice. Other than that I would just get the iBook.

jon

[Patmian212]

I would hardly pay an extra $600 for faster ram, faster bus and 32mb extra video ram. If you need it now go ibook(unless money is no object), but I would advise everyone to wait till MSWF in January.

Just my 2 cents.

[Jdm_rsx]

MSWF

huh? whats that..?

sorry im lost...

[thequicksilver]

MSWF

huh? whats that..?

sorry im lost...

It's supposed to be MWSF, MacWorld San Francisco. It's rumoured that new Powerbooks will be launched there.

Even if they're not, they're sure to come in the first couple of months of the year, the current models have been around since April.

[Bhennies]

It's supposed to be MWSF, MacWorld San Francisco. It's rumoured that new Powerbooks will be launched there.

Even if they're not, they're sure to come in the first couple of months of the year, the current models have been around since April.I wouldn't hold your breath on anything. If you need it get it now. I played the waiting game for new g5's starting in January of last year when updates were "imminent". 6 months later I bought a powerbook and am happy I did 'cause the VERY LATE g5 update was pretty dissapointing.

Now I'm looking to buy a new g5 and the waiting game is starting all over again. Only reason I'm doing it is because I currently have the 1.33 g4 powerbook to tide me over for 6-8 weeks even though it's not exactly a powerhouse. Don't depend on apple for what SHOULD be updated because you're setting yourself up for dissapointment.

[CaptainCaveMann]

Well im not looking at the 12 inch model its between the 14 inch ibook and the 15 inch powerbook. Heres what ill use it for...Web Surfing,Games,Word Processing office for mac,Instant messenger,Studio mx to design web pages,Photo shop,I also have a digital video camera and i want to be able to edit my movies with music and text and things like that,but heres the thing i use a pretty fast desktop pc right now that has a amd 1800 in it and 512 memory running at 333 i think or 400,128 nvidia video card, and a 120 gig hard drive spinning at 7200 rpm's,I am not really looking for a desktop replacement notebook because i enjoy building pc's and i am going to be building another one pretty soon so i dont need the mac to be my desktop replacement but i wanted it for its secure os and for the portability like being able to go to the library at school and work on a web page or type a paper.Also to watch movies on it as well.So which one do you guys think would be better for me

[Jdm_rsx]

im a little different story

i just want the fastest / SMALLEST laptop / lightest..

to me money isn't really a issue.. just want what i need but its always good to get advice from pro's like you guys...

= )

ill be gettin the educational discount on the laptops....

its kind of like 1450? with tax for the 12inch PB

i have a friend that works at compusa to help me buy ram for a cheaper price

[xgsrpg]

i have a friend that works at compusa to help me buy ram for a cheaper price

I doubt you'll get much of a discount with your friend, especially at CompUSA. See what he/she offers you, and check if you can get better at www.newegg.com

[Jdm_rsx]

in a way if i get local, warranty and etc is nice

online there is always defective products...and return/exchange is always a hassle, i'd probably have to see the differences?

what does newegg have?

where should i look at?

thanks guys!

[pianojoe]

I'm typing this on a 12" PB sitting next to a 12" iBook. The PB has 1.33MHz, the iBook has 1.2. Don't ask me why, but the PowerBook feels A LOT faster! The iBook has a definite lag in Quartz Extreme performance when resizing windows and so on, and it's so much HEAVIER. No way, go for the PowerBook!

[CaptainCaveMann]

I'm typing this on a 12" PB sitting next to a 12" iBook. The PB has 1.33MHz, the iBook has 1.2. Don't ask me why, but the PowerBook feels A LOT faster! The iBook has a definite lag in Quartz Extreme performance when resizing windows and so on, and it's so much HEAVIER. No way, go for the PowerBook!Thanks :D

[maya]

I'm typing this on a 12" PB sitting next to a 12" iBook. The PB has 1.33MHz, the iBook has 1.2. Don't ask me why, but the PowerBook feels A LOT faster! The iBook has a definite lag in Quartz Extreme performance when resizing windows and so on, and it's so much HEAVIER. No way, go for the PowerBook!


You failed to mention how much ram both systems have. For all we know that PB has 512 ram and the iBook 256 that will make the PB more responsive which is a give.

I would like you to throw both book across the room to a sofa and we shall see what each book is made of. Weight is not an issue however the PB will bend (warp) scratch,etc...read the Apple forums please. :rolleyes:

PB is not worth the money at present unless your company is buying it for you.

The iBook is rugged for a reason the PB well lets say you sit out in the sun, I do not need to connect the dot here. :)

One would be a fool to buy any PB so late in the game if you bought it in May that is understandable.

The screen hack on the iBook, well lets say I have not seen anything tragic happen by doing so.

Whatever if you want to spend the extra go for it, not my money and don't complain after MWSF 2005 that you have something the value of an iBook. :rolleyes: <--- Go ahead make Apple rich.

[pianojoe]

You failed to mention how much ram both systems have. For all we know that PB has 512 ram and the iBook 256 that will make the PB more responsive which is a give. OK, the PB has 1,25GB, the iBook has only 768GB. But, come on, resizing windows, while only the Finder is running?

I would like you to throw both book across the room to a sofa and we shall see what each book is made of. Weight is not an issue however the PB will bend (warp) scratch,etc...read the Apple forums please. :rolleyes: Yes, the iBook is of a sturdier built. Still, I do not recommend tossing any notebook around. The PB's aluminium gets scratched easily.

PB is not worth the money at present unless your company is buying it for you. I'm glad I didn't go for the iBook. More HD space and WiFi.

I used to have iBooks (300, 500, 600, 800 MHz) until I "switched" to PowerBooks (867, 1.33). Never looked back. I carry this thing wherever I go (that's why I dig 12"), so size and weight is an issue.

[starstreak]

Main reason I bought the PB 12.1in model is I needed it small and I wanted to play a game on it. 32mb of ram for a vid card is such a joke. Even 64mb nowadays. But at least I can run most stuff available for the mac. My Dell Inspiron 6800 kicks the apples around, but then again I could drop the Dell on the floor and crack cement because of how heavy it is.

[maya]

OK, the PB has 1,25GB, the iBook has only 768GB. But, come on, resizing windows, while only the Finder is running?


I am not even going to mention how much of a difference an extra 512 of ram speeds up OS X. You clearly have given the PowerBook the RAM advantage.

Running a test with the "Finder" is just not recommended since many people will attest to the Panther Finder as being more sluggish than compared to the Jaguar Finder. And I have also noticed that Panthers Finder feels slower not as responsive as Jaguars Finder.

Please conducts a different test maybe PS CS or something, Since I also tested the Panther Finder on a SP PMG5 1.8 with 256 ram it also felt sluggish.


Yes, the iBook is of a sturdier built. Still, I do not recommend tossing any notebook around. The PB's aluminium gets scratched easily.


The iBook is built for "The Student" meaning many students drop they books or bags on the floor without thinking, etc... Besides with an iBook you don't need to think about if you dropped it off the table if it has broken some few visual tests is good enough. With the PowerBook the Al will be bent and so on, all have been reported in the Apple Forums. Tragic.


I'm glad I didn't go for the iBook. More HD space and WiFi.


You must be on something the iBook on WiFi will pull in signal strength from a far source, I cannot say the same for the PowerBooks. Remember the Ti, had the worst WiFi reception thus Apple made changes and now even though the Al is better the iBook beat both combined in range and strength. This is also well noted. :)

HDD space really depends on the users, if you are using GrageBand and playing games sure you will run out of space however Apple is not going to give you on PAR HDD size and rpm to its PowerBook line since it will be stepping on each others toes and then there is the Price factor you are paying a lot more for a PowerBook so why would an iBook have on PAR HDD performance. You can always change the internal HDD with one that is faster than the PowerBook and larger as well.

I used to have iBooks (300, 500, 600, 800 MHz) until I "switched" to PowerBooks (867, 1.33). Never looked back. I carry this thing wherever I go (that's why I dig 12"), so size and weight is an issue.

That is great that you have been using iBooks for such a long time however I have noticed that when the iBooks were launched there looked cool however they lacked much in the hardware aspect. Not so as of recent the iBooks look like the work horses of the portable line, Price and Performance. The PowerBooks have the Performance and Looks however not the price and given that going from a 1.2GHz G4 to a 1.4GHz G4 is not much of a difference its not worth the extra unless you require the additional ports.

When you get down to it you will have to baby your PowerBook since you spent a lot on it, the iBook on the other hand since you didn't pay as much and get similar performance you tend to put it through the ringer and squeeze all that you can out of it.

If the PowerBooks had features and performance that attracted me I would surly buy a 17" PowerBook, however nothing about it at present makes me want one and even though I can afford the PowerBook 17" I have to ask myself that in the next revision the sub 1000 iBook will be on PAR with this batch of PowerBooks I cannot justify loosing that much in a short about of time. An iBook as I have mentioned before you will loose 50-100 USD on it however its a smaller amount than loosing 300-600 USD on a PowerBook. What happens if Apple drops the prices of the PowerBook tomorrow you cannot sell your old technology for the same price you have to sell it for lower and in that factoring the iBook is best to recoup ones cost. A 999 USD iBook sold in a 3-6 month used will loose 50-100 USD no bad considering that is stock if you add more ram in it you might only loose less.

The G4 PowerBooks have been a disappointment from the start since it was introduced in the Ti case and now the Al case, only reason why Apple pushed for a 17" screen and BL keyboard these things though nice removes the powerbook out of the portable idea at 17". G4 in an iBook well that is well suited.

Anyhow people will all justify they purchases on a machine no matter what to put themselves at ease. I have quite a few Mac's I see no reason why people should put down the iBook just to make the PowerBook LOOK Powerful <----- what a joke?

[maya]

Main reason I bought the PB 12.1in model is I needed it small and I wanted to play a game on it. 32mb of ram for a vid card is such a joke. Even 64mb nowadays. But at least I can run most stuff available for the mac. My Dell Inspiron 6800 kicks the apples around, but then again I could drop the Dell on the floor and crack cement because of how heavy it is.

It is well noted that you play only light games on an iBook and even a PowerBook. Games on Apple portables forget it you might as well buy an XBOX or PS2.

I don't get why people are willing to squint to play games and expect a killer machine to handle it. Buy a console Please, even the G5's have problems with game play since the Graphic Cards are not optimized code.

When the eMac goes G5 it will shin the iMac G5 only reason then is for an LCD unless you are smart and use a spanning hack on the eMac and have a dual display one CRT one LCD. :)

PowerBook people here are trying to justify they high cost of buying they machines that in a few months the same chip will make its way into the iBook. The iBook will stay G4 for sometime as it did with the G3 chip you can expect the iBook to outperform the PowerBook (if PB indeed goes G5) in battery life. And last time I checked battery life was all that had to do with portability, look at the complaints from iPod owners alone.

Face it people your PowerBook that cost 2+K in 2005 will be in a sub 1K iBook. :) And when those dual core G4 chips are released and put into an iBook it will outshine any PowerBook G5 plus the battery life. ;) :)

[Jdm_rsx]

maya what do you do w/ the ibOOK anyways?

your like totally in love with it...

now im thinking twice about keeping my NEWLY BOUGHT POWERBOOK!

argh..........

[mcgarry]

May I attempt to summarize the obvious:

- The PowerBook is faster and has some more features which may or may not be important to you
- The iBook is cheaper
- if you want a PowerBook you might want to see what happens at MWSF

That about covers it.

And as an editorial aside, as someone who has used both a 12" iBook and a 12" PowerBook extensively (by my standards at least), I don't think one case is inherently "tougher" than another. If you make a habit of dropping your laptop, nothing is going to seem tough enough.

[mcgarry]

In relation to the original question about speed, the macworld review has some test results for the latest iBooks that compare to the 15" 1.33 GHz PowerBook. Yes, the PowerBook is faster, but is the difference (and the extra features, bigger screen, etc.) enough to justify the price? Up to you.

www.macworld.com/2004/11/reviews/ibookg4update/

[CaptainCaveMann]

It is well noted that you play only light games on an iBook and even a PowerBook. Games on Apple portables forget it you might as well buy an XBOX or PS2.

I don't get why people are willing to squint to play games and expect a killer machine to handle it. Buy a console Please, even the G5's have problems with game play since the Graphic Cards are not optimized code.

When the eMac goes G5 it will shin the iMac G5 only reason then is for an LCD unless you are smart and use a spanning hack on the eMac and have a dual display one CRT one LCD. :)

PowerBook people here are trying to justify they high cost of buying they machines that in a few months the same chip will make its way into the iBook. The iBook will stay G4 for sometime as it did with the G3 chip you can expect the iBook to outperform the PowerBook (if PB indeed goes G5) in battery life. And last time I checked battery life was all that had to do with portability, look at the complaints from iPod owners alone.

Face it people your PowerBook that cost 2+K in 2005 will be in a sub 1K iBook. :) And when those dual core G4 chips are released and put into an iBook it will outshine any PowerBook G5 plus the battery life. ;) :)Ok im going to say this one more time for everyone who always says forget games on your comp and just get a ps2 or xbox so here it is so you can understand and stop saying this....THERE ARE GAMES ON THE COMPUTER THAT YOU CANNOT GET ON A PS2 OR XBOX OK!!! LOL :rolleyes:

[CaptainCaveMann]

My biggest reason for buying a powerbook would probably be the video card and the higher resolution of the screen i really like the crispness of it compared to the ibook

[maya]

maya what do you do w/ the ibOOK anyways?

your like totally in love with it...

now im thinking twice about keeping my NEWLY BOUGHT POWERBOOK!

argh..........

I use my iBook for web design, photo editing, 3D (yes believe it), word processing, giving presentations, surfing, email, listening to music, editing some videos and author DVD's (though I burn on an external Burner).

Granted its not a 2.5 GHz G5 however at the speed tech is underway that G5 you spent 3k on will drop in price soon enough considering all the press the G5 and IBM are getting along with IBM's partnership. IMHO the iBook looks sleek and it a great price for what it does with WiFi and it being light along with battery power and other little features its quite a bargain.

RAM will always benefit any computer. The Video Card is not that great however I that is not an issue as of yet.

I also do not play games. :)

EDIT: Core Image will run slow on 64megs on a Graphic Card you will need a good 128+Megs to get acceptable performance. Do you honestly believe Mac OS X will run acceptable on 128Megs of Ram as is the minimum requirements. We all know that you need a good 512+Megs of ram to work in OS X. Core Image is no different, don't expect to do miracles. :rolleyes: And for the love of the top end cards have half-arsed divers. :( "Tiger" seems more and more targeted towards the server and high-end professional market and the notebook line is not on PAR with it look no further than the systemBUS. :)

[maya]

In relation to the original question about speed, the macworld review has some test results for the latest iBooks that compare to the 15" 1.33 GHz PowerBook. Yes, the PowerBook is faster, but is the difference (and the extra features, bigger screen, etc.) enough to justify the price? Up to you.

www.macworld.com/2004/11/reviews/ibookg4update/

Exactly my point, in another few months your powerbook will not be so hot try to resell that for 3/4 of the cost you bought it it will be difficult since if Apple drops prices on the PB line you all have just lined Apples profit margin.

Interesting I priced all the components battery, Combo Drive, HDD, LCD, etc...of the iBook 12" Apple actually doesn't make much of a profit on it that compared to the PB 12" Apple is making you pay more for oh the "Power" name, Al, and a tab bit faster ram and bus plus BT. :rolleyes:

Go ahead price the components for a 12" PB and iBook see which one is a better deal and its the PB 12" Combo drive since one has to be fair unless the 12" iBook has a superdrive option. :)

Besides I have a PowerBook and I do not use most of the ports it has (what a waste :().

[maya]

My biggest reason for buying a powerbook would probably be the video card and the higher resolution of the screen i really like the crispness of it compared to the ibook

If you are comparing the 12" iBook screen and PowerBook screen its the same one Apple doesn't look for low cost component for all they lines they put the same 12" in the iBook and PowerBook the same 17" in the PowerBook and iMac G5 line. All this is to cut cost.

If you feel the 14" iBook resolution is bad well people with poor eyesight (not me) appreciate the resolution to size ratio.

I always liked the 12" iBook, the 12" PowerBook seems like a miss for some reason. The top 2 PowerBook models are better in specs however the price it absurd for a G4 chip at this level in the game. :)

[maya]

Ok im going to say this one more time for everyone who always says forget games on your comp and just get a ps2 or xbox so here it is so you can understand and stop saying this....THERE ARE GAMES ON THE COMPUTER THAT YOU CANNOT GET ON A PS2 OR XBOX OK!!! LOL :rolleyes:

Have you either written or called the game developer(s) of the company and asked if there were going to port it to a console, its rather odd for a game developer to only write Mac ONLY games. :)

[CaptainCaveMann]

Have you either written or called the game developer(s) of the company and asked if there were going to port it to a console, its rather odd for a game developer to only write Mac ONLY games. :)I didnt say mac only games im talking about PC games and i really doubt doom 3 and wc3 or ut2004 will be coming out on ps2 or xbox anytime soon u simly dont get the same detail as u do on a high end pc

[Jdm_rsx]

when i had a ibook, i used it to play sim city 4 and thats it

surf internet, lots of homework / powerpoint / word processing

but i just wanted something better

sigh, i really dont know what to do now..

[rstroud]

I didnt say mac only games im talking about PC games and i really doubt doom 3 and wc3 or ut2004 will be coming out on ps2 or xbox anytime soon u simly dont get the same detail as u do on a high end pc
Actually, Doom 3 is coming to consoles....at least, it's in development!

[maya]

I didnt say mac only games im talking about PC games and i really doubt doom 3 and wc3 or ut2004 will be coming out on ps2 or xbox anytime soon u simly dont get the same detail as u do on a high end pc

Then you are stuck with a small pocket and big dreams. :)

EDIT: would it not be cheaper to buy a PC for gaming. I know some other Mac users who do this.

As for me I do not play games and at the current rate the system bus speed is it fits more inline of an iBook or eMac not a PowerBook. If the PowerBook had a 2.0 GHz processor and a faster bus along with PC3200 ram then I can see why people would prefer the PowerBook however at present its just too close and the

iBook 133MHz bus compared to the PowerBook 167MHz bus not much of a difference for the price as well as the iBook 266MHz ram compared to the PowerBook 333MHz ram speed.

That is why I feel that the PowerBooks are a bad bad deal the 12" iBook being the best deal for the features and money no contest. :)

The only thing lacking is a 64Meg Graphic Card however as mentioned above its not much of a concern for me. I will not be upgrading until there is a PowerBook G5 rev b or c and 1+Gig standard so that is a long time away. Plus by that time the dual core FreeScale chips should be ready and make its way into the iBook line. I would love to see a benchmark of a dual core 1.8GHz iBook G4 to a single core 2.0GHz PowerBook G5 given the battery life along the iBook will win the only way it will stagger is bus speed, Graphic Car, and a low rpm HDD. :)

Have you ever tried to find out the resale value of your PowerBook G4, I gather many consumers will still only look at the MHz rating. :)

To a off the street consumer should I buy a 1.33GHz iBook with XYZ or a 1.2GHz PowerBook for more money if details mattered to many consumers why do we have a slow bus. :)

[maya]

when i had a ibook, i used it to play sim city 4 and thats it

surf internet, lots of homework / powerpoint / word processing

but i just wanted something better

sigh, i really dont know what to do now..

Are you sure you just wanted the name "Power" and look of metal or was it something else. ;) :)

Again I have very little need for a card slot since I can use my phone to connect to the net and use a USB link to the iBook and there is the WiFi card that is now standard. :) Don't need a DVD burner I send my DVD content to a pro KIOS since they can worry about the burning issues plus I get it discounted so its not much for me to get my DVD's burnt professionally all I have to do is take my iBook or iPod and upload the DVD image. :)

A PowerBook is like having features to put yourself at ease and never use it however paying for it in the slight chance that you might. I have hardly used any of the ports on my PowerBook the usual USB and FW, S-Video all that is included with the iBook. :)

[maya]

Actually, Doom 3 is coming to consoles....at least, it's in development!

That is reassuring that they are porting some games even at a slow pace to consoles this should pave the way if these early titles do well with consumers. Halo 2 on XBOX seems to be a hit in Canada. :)

[ravenvii]

Those aluminum PowerBooks scare me to death. I definitely will not buy one. All those warping stories, and people using hammers to stamp it back into shape... :eek:

If you want an notebook now, definitely get the iBook. Definitely. If you don't, wait for the next generation of the PowerBook (by generation I mean the step from plastic to titanium, and the step from titanium to aluminum).

As for games, will World of Warcraft ever come to consoles? I think not! So don't say "just get a PS2 or XBox you dolt!", that just makes you seem very naive.

Anyway, I recommend the iBook. That metallic good looks won't enchant you for long when you suddenly notice that your PowerBook wobbles...

[maya]

Those aluminum PowerBooks scare me to death. I definitely will not buy one. All those warping stories, and people using hammers to stamp it back into shape... :eek:

If you want an notebook now, definitely get the iBook. Definitely. If you don't, wait for the next generation of the PowerBook (by generation I mean the step from plastic to titanium, and the step from titanium to aluminum).

As for games, will World of Warcraft ever come to consoles? I think not! So don't say "just get a PS2 or XBox you dolt!", that just makes you seem very naive.

Anyway, I recommend the iBook. That metallic good looks won't enchant you for long when you suddenly notice that your PowerBook wobbles...

Watch the name call huh? :rolleyes: No one mentioned what games titles they were referring to and so forth. And its well noted that Mac's are not the best gaming machines they are working machines.

Get your matters correct before resorting to name calling even if you were not referring to any of the above? :)

Keep this place clean. :)

[CaptainCaveMann]

Those aluminum PowerBooks scare me to death. I definitely will not buy one. All those warping stories, and people using hammers to stamp it back into shape... :eek:

If you want an notebook now, definitely get the iBook. Definitely. If you don't, wait for the next generation of the PowerBook (by generation I mean the step from plastic to titanium, and the step from titanium to aluminum).

As for games, will World of Warcraft ever come to consoles? I think not! So don't say "just get a PS2 or XBox you dolt!", that just makes you seem very naive.

Anyway, I recommend the iBook. That metallic good looks won't enchant you for long when you suddenly notice that your PowerBook wobbles...My point exactly

[mcgarry]

Those aluminum PowerBooks scare me to death. I definitely will not buy one. All those warping stories, and people using hammers to stamp it back into shape... :eek:



Almost all of those problems I heard about were for Rev. A 15" PowerBooks. Those problems could easily be matched by the early iBooks hinge, screen, and logicboard problems. My brother's iBook has had its share of quality control issues, my PowerBook none, but I do not therefore leap to the conclusion that no PowerBooks have problems and and all iBooks do. Any of the current generation of either model should be fine.

These are different computers for different uses: one is a little faster, has a few more features, the other is cheaper. One might be updated soon. That's really all there is to it.

Also, again to state the obvious, I wouldn't worry about resale value unless you plan to re-sell.

[CaptainCaveMann]

Almost all of those problems I heard about were for Rev. A 15" PowerBooks. Those problems could easily be matched by the early iBooks hinge, screen, and logicboard problems. My brother's iBook has had its share of quality control issues, my PowerBook none, but I do not therefore leap to the blanket conclusion that no PowerBooks have problems and and all iBooks do. Any of the current generation of either model should be fine.

These are different computers for different uses: one is a little faster, has a few more features, the other is cheaper. One might be updated soon. That's really all there is to it.

Also, again to state the obvious, I wouldn't worry about resale value unless you plan to re-sell.As hard as it would be to resale a computer i am not worried about it, i have a really good pc and have had no luck selling it

[Jdm_rsx]

so what is the current resell value of the CURRENT G4 POWERBOOK?

[maya]

so what is the current resell value of the CURRENT G4 POWERBOOK?

Since the April model has not seen an update since April *cough* the resale value should be a few hundred less of what you paid if the computer is in good shape.

If a PowerBook 1.6GHz or a PowerBook G5 is introduced at MWSF 2005 with price drops the April released PowerBook will be a few hundred less of the new lower price if still a G4 if a G5 plan to loose even more money.

All depends PBG5 in Jan or PBG4 updates you still loose money how much will depend on the G5 or G4 chip that the PB will sport.

The 12" iBook G4 that was released in April same time as the PowerBook G4 now goes for about 700-800 CAD the higher price is if trade-in. Since the April iBooks 12" models cost 1099 USD in April and no WiFi however the ones released in October are 999 USD + WiFi included so that is an automatic 200 USD dollar loss. having BlueTooth in another rev iBook G4 next year will not loose to much on the Oct released iBooks for one reason some people want BT some people don't at most will loose 100 USD so the current iBooks will not loose much value considering the 12" will next sport a 1.33GHz G4 chip not much of a leap. :)

I will however find the current resale value on the April PowerBooks and post later.

[Jdm_rsx]

you sure know ur freakin market maya

may i ask what do you do for a living?

please look at my thread as well

its too late i already bought a powerbook

= )

[mcgarry]

I'm not sure why a new customer considering an iBook or a PowerBook should be overly concerned with what their computer's resale value may be at some unspecified point in the future. It might be a concern, certainly, but I wouldn't dwell on it. It's too hard to predict with much precision. One factor to keep in mind which could influence these numbers down the road is CoreImage compatibility. IF that is important to people, the value of the iBook will understandably be relatively lower than that of computers that do support it. Personally I don't think that's a major issue, I'm just trying to say that looking at used computer prices now might not tell you all that much about where'll they'll be 4,6,8 months from now. But I'm just guessing.

[maya]

you sure know ur freakin market maya

may i ask what do you do for a living?

please look at my thread as well

its too late i already bought a powerbook

= )

First, thank you. :)

Second, I use to take media design which included a fair bit of marketing and so forth business side related.

Third, I know you bought a powerbook was it a foolish mistake you can dwindle over it down the road. :)

[maya]

I'm not sure why a new customer considering an iBook or a PowerBook should be overly concerned with what their computer's resale value may be at some unspecified point in the future. It might be a concern, certainly, but I wouldn't dwell on it. It's too hard to predict with much precision. One factor to keep in mind which could influence these numbers down the road is CoreImage compatibility. IF that is important to people, the value of the iBook will understandably be relatively lower than that of computers that do support it. Personally I don't think that's a major issue, I'm just trying to say that looking at used computer prices now might not tell you all that much about where'll they'll be 4,6,8 months from now. But I'm just guessing.

However you have to factor in that Core Image asks for a minimum of 64Meg Graphic Card and lets face it Mac OS X asks for a minimum of 128Megs however we ALL know that Mac OS X is dog slow with 128Megs of ram and 512 is far better. Do you feel Core Image is any better, ask yourself if you go to an Apple store the demo Macs have at least 512Megs of ram what do you think the Apple Expo Mac's running or demonstrating Core Image are using 64Meg Graphic Cards, think again they are using a minimum 128Meg graphic card. The iMac G5 will slog trying to do anything with Core Image you will see a tad performance however not worth it until you have a 128Meg GPU in there. Have you also realized that the 12" PB and so forth have 64Meg GPU standard do you think Core Image is going to scream on those machine you are living in a Dream, that is why Apple gives you the option of a 128 GPU upgrade for the High End Portable users.

We already have GPU cards that don't have fully optimized drivers what makes you so sure that Core Image will save everything. I will say one thing its a great technology no doubt about it however don't expect miracles to happen if it runs slow its not worth using IMHO as for resale value it does matter. You can either buy a Toyota with a better resale value or buy a Ferrari that drops in value like the Titanic. You are better off taking the Ferrari for a test drive and get it out of your system. :rolleyes:

Same can be said for x86 hardware they drop in value a lot, Apple on the other hand there is a stopping point if you spend less you are bound to loose next they top of the line is great if you are a business however as a consumer its terrible look back at history those ppl who bought MDD 1.2 GHz can now be had in an iBook given the system bus and ram are a tad slow however for what its worth you are getting a great screen with the 12" model, world portability, battery life, WiFi, and all in a small sleek package. I work on large and I mean close to 1gig PS files and this little machine kicks at it since I have maxed out the ram, I can either get features with a PowerBook a bit better CPU, a tab higher ram rating and systembus and pay big time and not sit with 512 ram or I can buy an iBook and max it all out in the end I am spending a FRACTION of the cost of a pro line and they are almost neck and neck. What the PowerBook has today the iBook will have tomorrow that is pretty much a given and at present it doesn't seem Apple is jumping on innovation with its portable line at the high-end, So go ahead and live in denial that you payed more for something that a low end product will get. I learnt my lesson a long time back I can either buy an iBook or eMac and update at a faster rate and keep up with advances at a small loss or buy the top end now take a hit to the pocket and then wait for some years to upgrade once again while taking a bigger loss.

You do the math. Saving .07 seconds on an mp3 encode as a consumer or spend 1+ k USD to gain .03 seconds from that. Simple economics as a consumer if you are a professional then cost would not be of any issue. :)

[mcgarry]

The iBook and the PowerBook are BOTH great computers. But the fact is, if they cost the same, almost everyone would pick the PowerBook. It is a superior machine, on paper, by any measurement except for subjective aesthetic factors. Is the PowerBook a better value? Probably not, unless you need or want its features. BUT the price differences are not as great as has been said here. Here's the 14" iBook compared to the 15" PowerBook 1.5 GHz (of course 1.33 would be even cheaper):

14" iBook 1.33GHz with 512MB = 1674
15" PBook 1.5GHz with 512MB and 5400rpm HD option = 2549.

So what does the $875 get you?
- slightly bigger screen, widescreen resolutions
- better, faster video card with twice the VRAM
- official support for non-mirrored external displays
- faster HD
- faster processor, faster system bus, faster RAM
- backlit keyboard
- aluminum case is less thick
- gigabit ethernet
- FireWire 800
- PC Card slot
- audio line-in
- built-in Bluetooth ($50 option in iBook)

For some people, that's $875 well-spent. For others it isn't. That's why there are two laptop lines. Also, the educational discount is greater on the current PowerBooks, probably reflecting their proximity to an update. So the price difference would narrow. And of course, with MWSF coming up, a wait might be in order in any case.

Still, the questions whose answers may lead to a PowerBook purchase could be as simple as "do you want to be able to display to an external non-mirrored display without voiding your warranty," or "do you want to be able to use FW800 peripherals," and so on. Certainly, a lot of people who want Mac laptops don't need these things. If not, certainly buy the cheaper computer that suits your needs. Tthe iBooks are great computers. But their most important feature-- and the only one they have that the PowerBooks don't-- is the lower price.

Lastly, resale values are meaningless if you never re-sell, and in any case highly unpredictable. And yes, something that starts off worth more has more room to fall.

[maya]

The iBook and the PowerBook are BOTH great computers. But the fact is, if they cost the same, almost everyone would pick the PowerBook. It is a superior machine, on paper, by any measurement except for subjective aesthetic factors. Is the PowerBook a better value? Probably not, unless you need or want its features. BUT the price differences are not as great as has been said here. Here's the 14" iBook compared to the 15" PowerBook 1.5 GHz (of course 1.33 would be even cheaper):

14" iBook 1.33GHz with 512MB = 1674
15" PBook 1.5GHz with 512MB and 5400rpm HD option = 2549.

So what does the $875 get you?
- slightly bigger screen, widescreen resolutions
- better, faster video card with twice the VRAM
- official support for non-mirrored external displays
- faster HD
- faster processor, faster system bus, faster RAM
- backlit keyboard
- aluminum case is less thick
- gigabit ethernet
- FireWire 800
- PC Card slot
- audio line-in
- built-in Bluetooth ($50 option in iBook)

For some people, that's $875 well-spent. For others it isn't. That's why there are two laptop lines. Also, the educational discount is greater on the current PowerBooks, probably reflecting their proximity to an update. So the price difference would narrow. And of course, with MWSF coming up, a wait might be in order in any case.

Still, the questions whose answers may lead to a PowerBook purchase could be as simple as "do you want to be able to display to an external non-mirrored display without voiding your warranty," or "do you want to be able to use FW800 peripherals," and so on. Certainly, a lot of people who want Mac laptops don't need these things. If not, certainly buy the cheaper computer that suits your needs. Tthe iBooks are great computers. But their most important feature-- and the only one they have that the PowerBooks don't-- is the lower price.

Lastly, resale values are meaningless if you never re-sell, and in any case highly unpredictable. And yes, something that starts off worth more has more room to fall.

Why do you not compare the 12" iBook and PowerBooks there have the same screen and are on the same PORTABLE level with same screen resolution. I shall leave this NEW comparison to you, please not the SD model since the 12" iBook does not have that option at present, gee I wonder why Apple. :rolleyes:

[mcgarry]

I didn't compare the 12" because the original poster in this thread was comparing the 14" iBook to the 15" PowerBook.

As for 12" vs. 12", I won't bother with the details because the facts remain the same: the PowerBook (even the 12") has extra features (see previous posts), but costs more, and may be updated soon. That's all I've been saying all along.

[maya]

I didn't compare the 12" because the original poster in this thread was comparing the 14" iBook to the 15" PowerBook.

As for 12" vs. 12", I won't bother with the details because the facts remain the same: the PowerBook (even the 12") has extra features (see previous posts), but costs more, and may be updated soon. That's all I've been saying all along.

That is fine updates will always come in the future, and I do not mind posting a 12" comparison for both lines and I will also post a resale value for both. Wait for my post tomorrow. :)

[Jdm_rsx]

maya is one heck of a dedicated mac user!

thanks!

why didn't you do this before i got my 12in powerbook?

= ( :rolleyes: :(

[maya]

maya is one heck of a dedicated mac user!

thanks!

why didn't you do this before i got my 12in powerbook?

= ( :rolleyes: :(

I have been asked by mcgarry to put an end to it right here so being a good sport I shall. :)


It honestly all matters the PowerBooks have not been updated for a while and if you are considering buying one wait till after MWSF 2005 there is bound to be some sort of announcement if not i feel sorry for for those later buyers. The buyers who bought in April 2004 must live it since it indeed extends they purchase for a bit not too long though.

mcgarry, also stated that you wanted the 15" PB and as for the iBook line there is none so if you are looking for anything other than a 12" PB is the way unless you don't need the ports and don't have the money.

As for me it was simple I needed a 12" for portable reason:

Screen resolution was key, size, battery life, ruggedness, WiFi.

Price was not really an issue and since I have no need for a DVD burner since the ones in portable take ~27mins to burn a single layer 4.4Gig disk it was not worth the money since I can get them burned professionally for less than 5 CAD and I don't burn DVD's often. It was simple will I be using it on a daily bases or do I only want it for the one time I have a fit to burn a DVD for the heck of it.

I see little use for BlueTooth, its terrible IMO as of current slow, unstable at times and I already have a secure USB link for my mobile.

I do not care too much for a BT keyboard or mouse as I like the laptop keyboard and track pad better (don't have to mouse my hand just finger :) ).

Before I also compared the 12" models of both lines I also did a break down of the parts that are in both models and the 12" iBook won hands down I can invest as little and get more out of it then to invest more into the 12" powerbook and have it run slow with minimal ram.

Since I have been using Mac's and Portables in general for a long time I realize that under any OS RAM and lots of it is key and quite frankly have a powerbook 12" was not worth it.

I also have a very old PowerBook with all the ports for audio-in and it still works great so this time around I did not need the options for all. I have yet to see a consumer try to do an audio feed in to a notebook in the field, ppl can find other cheaper options for this.

Jdm_rsx, if you want the break down of components listed for the 12" iBook I have no problems to post it up here or PM me instead I will even give you the resale value of the PowerBooks that came out in April (note it will still be high since the PowerBook has not been updated unless you want me to give you a price after MWSF 2005).

Lets end this discussion at this point. :)

[pianojoe]

So far no-one mentioned that the 12" PowerBook is 20% smaller compared to the 12" iBook. And it's lighter too.

[Jdm_rsx]

aCTUALLY no one really cares about that part but yes i do notice it..

now that u have just mentioned it..

in a way powerbook is just too expensive for the picky ppl and just overall good for me to use ..

= )

[Bern]

Those aluminum PowerBooks scare me to death. I definitely will not buy one. All those warping stories, and people using hammers to stamp it back into shape... :eek:

If you want an notebook now, definitely get the iBook. Definitely. If you don't, wait for the next generation of the PowerBook (by generation I mean the step from plastic to titanium, and the step from titanium to aluminum).

Anyway, I recommend the iBook. That metallic good looks won't enchant you for long when you suddenly notice that your PowerBook wobbles...

I've had 2 PowerBooks (the latest was the Rev C) and let me tell you those cases are very very easy to dent, warp or buckle. Nothing is worse than having such a beautiful laptop that cost that money but with a big dent or buckle in it.

This happened to my PowerBooks and I treat my Macs very well, and when you take that dented PowerBook in for a warranty covered repair (say hardware failure of some kind for example) Apple will just blame the cause of the dent and your warranty won't mean squat.

I replaced my Rev C PowerBook with the latest 12" iBook and put the 1GB stick from the PowerBook into my new iBook. The iBook performs flawlessly. I do digital art in Corel painter IX, PS and Illustrator with no problems. My iBook travels everywhere with me, has longer battery life, better wifi, and is far more rugged.

When PowerBooks become G5 or until Apple change the case I'll always stick with the iBooks.

[maya]

So far no-one mentioned that the 12" PowerBook is 20% smaller compared to the 12" iBook. And it's lighter too.

Are you incapable of carrying some weight around what do you have on you a PDA, Mobile, Laptop, paper work, iPod, ?


Curious how much does all this way how big of a difference is 20% thinner or an ounce lighter really matter. You body actually is built to carry weight the more you try to lift up that burned the worse it is for you.

I have yet to figure out why people complain about notebook weight its not a Dell brick that weight close to 10 pounds a few ounces or 0.20 inches does not make any difference. What next your clothes are also too heavy for you. PAleeeeeeeeezzzzz :rolleyes:

Maybe you should workout at a GYM and it would not be a problem and I am neither male and I have no problems with the weight so why are you complaining. :rolleyes:

[maya]

aCTUALLY no one really cares about that part but yes i do notice it..

now that u have just mentioned it..

in a way powerbook is just too expensive for the picky ppl and just overall good for me to use ..

= )

Actually the powerbook would have not been an issues if it was at 2.0+ GHz its because its coming rather close to the low end that is what makes its look like a rotten deal at present. Hope MWSF 2005 has some details. :)

[maya]

I've had 2 PowerBooks (the latest was the Rev C) and let me tell you those cases are very very easy to dent, warp or buckle. Nothing is worse than having such a beautiful laptop that cost that money but with a big dent or buckle in it.

This happened to my PowerBooks and I treat my Macs very well, and when you take that dented PowerBook in for a warranty covered repair (say hardware failure of some kind for example) Apple will just blame the cause of the dent and your warranty won't mean squat.

I replaced my Rev C PowerBook with the latest 12" iBook and put the 1GB stick from the PowerBook into my new iBook. The iBook performs flawlessly. I do digital art in Corel painter IX, PS and Illustrator with no problems. My iBook travels everywhere with me, has longer battery life, better wifi, and is far more rugged.

When PowerBooks become G5 or until Apple change the case I'll always stick with the iBooks.

Thanks you seems some people do think logically. :)


People keep saying PB this PB that what about WiFi signal and strength which the iBook has hands down its a laptop and the first thing it has to me is very portable, rugged, great signal strength and battery life to me the iBook says portable the powerbook is trying to have the power however falls short and the rest are just the powerbook tripping on itself trying to justify its cost. :)

People be happy that your hard earned money is profiting Apple if you actually bought Apple bargains you would not have a chip on your shoulder. :)

LOL with the new iBook if there have some new crazy dual core chip 2 years from now I will have no regrets to give this fine machine to a family member. If it were a PowerBook I would kick myself for falling that high.

[Jdm_rsx]

alright maya, im feelin bad already...must u continue...

come on...make me feel better plz..

[maya]

alright maya, im feelin bad already...must u continue...

come on...make me feel better plz..

Buy an iPod. :)

You will make Apple feel better. ;)

[Bern]

Buy an iPod. :)

You will make Apple feel better. ;)

And your new iPod won't match your PowerBook as nicely as it does my iBook :D

You know why the iPods are the same as the iBooks? Because they are built to be portable, tough and light.

[betsbillabong]

I can't speak to the 12" powerbooks (which I believe *are* a bit too close to the iBooks in features right now), but I for one am quite happy that I got a 15" powerbook recently.

The iBook is a better deal for some people, particularly people who are using their computer in "normal" ways -- word documents, surfing, light powerpoint and photo editing. The powerbook is better if you spend a large proportion of your time doing media work. I do a lot of audio and video work on my powerbook, and need to show my work to clients and collaboraters. The screen resolution makes a big difference to me, and so does the screen brightness. I can actually fit all the palettes when i work in FCP or Photoshop or Peak. For me, the price difference makes sense. For others, perhaps not.

All this to say: the original poster should certainly not feel bad about buying the powerbook. It's a great machine. The iBook is good, also, but it is not for everyone, just as the powerbook is not for everyone. That's why there are two lines.

Sure, I'd rather have a dualcore G4 or G5 powerbook. When that happens it will certainly delineate the two lines to a greater extent. But if I'd waited then I wouldn't have been able to put on the live video opera that I did last week. I would have had to wait six months or a year. You buy a computer when you need to, and not before. You figure out which features you need, which ones would be nice, and which would be superfluous. You figure out your budget. And then you decide which one works for you. If you have the money, maybe you get a powerbook just because you like the way it looks more.

For what it's worth: I totally love my 15" powerbook. It's fast, sleek and powerful. More so than the G4 iBooks that I tried. I had hit a wall with my old G3 iBook, and now I can do work that I couldn't before. I also know that the iBook was totally fine for me in every area except for video and to a lesser extent audio.

Chill, out, people. To each their own. It's silly to argue that either the iBook or the powerbook is the solution to every problem. They're both good computers which fulfill different needs.

[maya]

I can't speak to the 12" powerbooks (which I believe *are* a bit too close to the iBooks in features right now), but I for one am quite happy that I got a 15" powerbook recently.

The iBook is a better deal for some people, particularly people who are using their computer in "normal" ways -- word documents, surfing, light powerpoint and photo editing. The powerbook is better if you spend a large proportion of your time doing media work. I do a lot of audio and video work on my powerbook, and need to show my work to clients and collaboraters. The screen resolution makes a big difference to me, and so does the screen brightness. I can actually fit all the palettes when i work in FCP or Photoshop or Peak. For me, the price difference makes sense. For others, perhaps not.

All this to say: the original poster should certainly not feel bad about buying the powerbook. It's a great machine. The iBook is good, also, but it is not for everyone, just as the powerbook is not for everyone. That's why there are two lines.

Sure, I'd rather have a dualcore G4 or G5 powerbook. When that happens it will certainly delineate the two lines to a greater extent. But if I'd waited then I wouldn't have been able to put on the live video opera that I did last week. I would have had to wait six months or a year. You buy a computer when you need to, and not before. You figure out which features you need, which ones would be nice, and which would be superfluous. You figure out your budget. And then you decide which one works for you. If you have the money, maybe you get a powerbook just because you like the way it looks more.

For what it's worth: I totally love my 15" powerbook. It's fast, sleek and powerful. More so than the G4 iBooks that I tried. I had hit a wall with my old G3 iBook, and now I can do work that I couldn't before. I also know that the iBook was totally fine for me in every area except for video and to a lesser extent audio.

Chill, out, people. To each their own. It's silly to argue that either the iBook or the powerbook is the solution to every problem. They're both good computers which fulfill different needs.

Okay lets get one thing straight the 12" lcd panels that are being used int eh iBook and Pb line are the SAME, as in same everything right down to brightness. All the PB lines have the SAME brightness factor you cannot have the 17" and 15" models with a better brightness rating than the 12" PB. That said the 12" iBook screen is on PAR with the PB 12" screen, Apple is not buying a low grade LCD just because the iBook is a consumer model. :rolleyes:

Second the 9200 is a better card then the 5200 GO, however lack of video ram is the only reason why its a step back in that dept, I wonder why Apple would do it. :rolleyes:

Third, I use my iBook 12" for imaging, audio editing, text, surfing, emailing, and some light to medium weight video editing, heck I also work on 3D projects on it. If you want to work on video get an iMac G5 if you need portable i suggest you wait. Yes the 2 lines are very close together why do you think Apple is not offering the SuperDrive in the 12" iBook since once they do the 12" PB is doomed. The ram rating and systemBUS rating is very little compared to the iBook the only other advantage is more Video Ram and I feel this is done on purpose if the 9200 with 64 ram was in the iBook I would like to see that 5200 GO with 64 match up. What if you compared both GPU with the same amount of ram.

too equal the systemBUS, Video RAM, and ram rating I suggest one does a test with a 12" iBook with 640-768 ram installed and a PowerBook 12" with 512 ram installed. That should grant PAR results. If the 12" PB has a 1Meg cache then the iBook would be behind with the 512K cache however that is not so. That is the benefit that the G3 PB had over the G3 colour iBooks.

Chances are after MWSF 2005 the 12" iBook will be over priced and the 12" iBook might even have a BTO for a SuperDrive come March-April 2005. Hold on to your 12" PB its basically an over priced 12" iBook. :)

For those who keep saying Core Image well come next year the new iBooks should have 64 meg video ram standard for Tiger and guess how much I would loose on a 12" iBook maxed out only 1500 CAD guess how much a new iBook will cost in march-april 2005 with Tiger and Core Image compatibility most likely another 1500 CAD or less I can take the ram slot out of my now iBook and only spend 1300 CAD, so how much did I spend 2800 CAD total for 2 iBooks while the 12" iBook people call say size and weight however they do not have ruggedness and excellent AirPort strength will cost them lets see 2099 (not maxed out) lets see in March-April I will have 2 12" iBooks for 701 more than your one 12" PB, I can connect these 2 12" iBooks and off load 3D rendering to speed it up. :) Try running doing that with a 12" PB. :)


if you are buying anything larger than a 12" portable and need portable buy a 15" PB middle model the rest of the PB line is way over priced. If you want a larger screen buy an external LCD and use the screen spanning feature that the PB has.

17" PB cost 3699 CAD, 17" low end iMac G5 cost 1749 CAD....how much do you think the same 17" screen costs the PB does not have some special LCD screen. You are spending 1950 on out dated internal on the PB 17" in a small package and most of that is Apple profit.

Why not do a component to component break down before you argue, Al and PolyCarbon are cheap to manufacture. :)

[maya]

And your new iPod won't match your PowerBook as nicely as it does my iBook :D

You know why the iPods are the same as the iBooks? Because they are built to be portable, tough and light.


LOL, I hope you know I have a 12" iBook right to match my iPod 3G. The same touch sensor buttons used on the new Cinema Displays. :)


12" PB owners are just in self denial that they purchase is tripping. :) So they come up with size and weight when its really not that far apart. :)

[oingoboingo]

alright maya, im feelin bad already...must u continue...

come on...make me feel better plz..

Just because this thread is dying down, I'd like to stir things up again. 10 reasons why you shouldn't feel bad about buying a PowerBook, from a fellow PowerBook owner. Definitely to be read with a :)

- It's smaller.
- It's lighter.
- The keyboard is better.
- It has a faster CPU, with a faster front-side bus.
- It has twice the video RAM.
- It has a GPU which supports CoreImage/CoreVideo.
- It has DVI out.
- It has an audio-in port.
- It doesn't look like it's made out of a recycled plastic ice-cream tub.
- Most importantly, the PowerBook family tree never contained any ancestors which could double as toilet seats or Hello Kitty cosmestics cases :)

Seriously guys, iBook, PowerBook...will it matter what you bought after a week of using it? No. You'll love your new 12" PowerBook. It's a damn sexy piece of technology, and it's what you wanted. Get off the forums for a while and just enjoy using such a quality piece integrated hardware and software.

[oingoboingo]

Core Image will run slow on 64megs on a Graphic Card you will need a good 128+Megs to get acceptable performance. Do you honestly believe Mac OS X will run acceptable on 128Megs of Ram as is the minimum requirements.

Out of interest, where did you find the minimum memory requirements for CoreImage? The only information I can find on Apple's Tiger Preview site about hardware requirements are those relating to the GPU core itself (ie: nVidia FX 5200 and above, ATI Radeon 9600 Pro and above) rather than anything about VRAM. I'd also be interested to read about the performance figures with 64MB versus 128MB of VRAM...where did you find this information? I don't have an ADC subscription so I can't get Tiger to play around with, but you may already have it.

That would be a shame if CoreImage API calls ran badly with 64MB of VRAM. That would mean that only the dual 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 would run CoreImage software acceptably 'out of the box', as every other machine in Apple's lineup has 64MB or less of video RAM as standard.

[maya]

Out of interest, where did you find the minimum memory requirements for CoreImage? The only information I can find on Apple's Tiger Preview site about hardware requirements are those relating to the GPU core itself (ie: nVidia FX 5200 and above, ATI Radeon 9600 Pro and above) rather than anything about VRAM. I'd also be interested to read about the performance figures with 64MB versus 128MB of VRAM...where did you find this information? I don't have an ADC subscription so I can't get Tiger to play around with, but you may already have it.

That would be a shame if CoreImage API calls ran badly with 64MB of VRAM. That would mean that only the dual 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 would run CoreImage software acceptably 'out of the box', as every other machine in Apple's lineup has 64MB or less of video RAM as standard.

Go to an Expo and play with the machines take a look at what is is running off.....Apples machines have to perform well and there is no way they are going to put in 128MB ram as the minimal requirement for OS X they use 512MB as the least if not more.

Do you feel Core Image is the same they want to WOW the customers and switchers do you think they are going to keep a 64MB GPU in they PMG5 they will use a 128MB.

Why do you think they give you the option on a PB to upgrade to 128MB GPU just so that you can play games faster, please why are you so naive get with the program Apple states minimum to keep they consumers happy from not complaining you actually need a 128MB for decent performance for Core Image as OS X needs 256MB and more for decent speed.

If you honestly think the iMac G5 will be sitting pretty with Tiger you are fooling yourself, they put in 256MB ram and 64MB GPU since its the minimal requirements to run Tiger nothing more.......why do you feel they recommend you upgrade the RAM for good speed too bad you cannot do the same with the GPU.

The only reason Apple is making the PB line have an option for 128MB GPU is when Tiger is released people will think to themselves great this is pretty fast and kewl speed. People who are fooling themselves that 64MB GPU will cut it you will be disappointed what a wast of money indeed might as well buy an iBook and see what 64MB standard GPU card or 128MB on the PMG5 they have next year.

All you people are buying is an iBook only sporting the "Power" name for now what an embarrassment indeed. I also conversed with a few Apple tec's in regards to Core Image and they said pretty much what I have summed up here. You are better off buying a 12" iBook and using the extra money for other christmas gifts. :)

[maya]

Just because this thread is dying down, I'd like to stir things up again. 10 reasons why you shouldn't feel bad about buying a PowerBook, from a fellow PowerBook owner. Definitely to be read with a :)

- It's smaller.
- It's lighter.
- The keyboard is better.
- It has a faster CPU, with a faster front-side bus.
- It has twice the video RAM.
- It has a GPU which supports CoreImage/CoreVideo.
- It has DVI out.
- It has an audio-in port.
- It doesn't look like it's made out of a recycled plastic ice-cream tub.
- Most importantly, the PowerBook family tree never contained any ancestors which could double as toilet seats or Hello Kitty cosmestics cases :)


lets see smaller and lighter the iBook has that plus its rugged unlike the PB which wil dent, warp easy....even the iPod is made with the same materials for a reason have you not noticed that the mini with its Al casing if squeezed near the headphone jack you will hear a crunching noise. Al is great however it has many drawbacks for a mobile device.

Keyboard is better that is a matter of opinion its sad that the iBook does have a BackLit keyboard that would be nice indeed however I have heard too many problems with BOTH keyboards so I see no difference with either or if you have a faulty keyboard it might be as said faulty be it checked out.

Faster ram, CPU, and systembus...by only a fraction not much of a difference its a mobile no one is RIGHT in they mind to run a full time business database on a notebook you want the heavy work get a desktop or server for those purposes.

Unless you have a 128MB GPU expect Core Image to run slow on a 64MB GPU its a given unless you want to find out when "Tiger" is released and want me to say I told you so, I have already spoken to Apple Tec's in regards to this. Core Image is scalable however for live on screen effects at a decent speed you need 128MB GPU a 64MB will only get it done by no means fast. Do you think they are using 64MB GPU cards at the demo that Phil was showing you have to be joking, its an illusion you are being shown these kewl things however if you think you can get that with an iMac G5 at the speed they were demoing you are living in a dream.

DVI and audio-in there are other portable sources for these, many of the PB users that I know hardly use most of they ports. They do not use FW800, they do not use Audio-In, etc....

If you want to do broadcasting you need a standard TV to see how the final results will look since majority of the world does not have HDTV they have the tube based TV.

WOW resulting to making fun of a design, are we forgetting that Apple is the company who designed and has its label on what you see as a toilet seat. You are using the same companies product that designed a toilet seat iBook. How about the cheese grater PMG5, however about the PMG4 with the 4 holes and speaker on the top of the case face. Yes, Apple has had some great looking and some off looking designs for they products I still do not see what this has to do with it. Hey the so called toiled seat had a nice handle to carry it. The PB Al design was taken from the iBook so what do you have to say about that. :rolleyes:

People do not try to justify the high price you payed for your *cough* iPowerBook, if it had a 2.0GHz dual core G4 that is a different story all together however that is not so. :)

I would love to look back on your post when they have a PBG5 and a Dual core G4 iBook....the only way Apple will cripple it is again systemBUS and ram speed as usual there is no way a consumer notebook can outperform a high priced PRO notebook. :eek:

Go ahead line Apples profit pockets by buying more PowerBooks be sure Steve and Co are laughing as am I. :)

[CaptainCaveMann]

lets see smaller and lighter the iBook has that plus its rugged unlike the PB which wil dent, warp easy....even the iPod is made with the same materials for a reason have you not noticed that the mini with its Al casing if squeezed near the headphone jack you will hear a crunching noise. Al is great however it has many drawbacks for a mobile device.

Keyboard is better that is a matter of opinion its sad that the iBook does have a BackLit keyboard that would be nice indeed however I have heard too many problems with BOTH keyboards so I see no difference with either or if you have a faulty keyboard it might be as said faulty be it checked out.

Faster ram, CPU, and systembus...by only a fraction not much of a difference its a mobile no one is RIGHT in they mind to run a full time business database on a notebook you want the heavy work get a desktop or server for those purposes.

Unless you have a 128MB GPU expect Core Image to run slow on a 64MB GPU its a given unless you want to find out when "Tiger" is released and want me to say I told you so, I have already spoken to Apple Tec's in regards to this. Core Image is scalable however for live on screen effects at a decent speed you need 128MB GPU a 64MB will only get it done by no means fast. Do you think they are using 64MB GPU cards at the demo that Phil was showing you have to be joking, its an illusion you are being shown these kewl things however if you think you can get that with an iMac G5 at the speed they were demoing you are living in a dream.

DVI and audio-in there are other portable sources for these, many of the PB users that I know hardly use most of they ports. They do not use FW800, they do not use Audio-In, etc....

If you want to do broadcasting you need a standard TV to see how the final results will look since majority of the world does not have HDTV they have the tube based TV.

WOW resulting to making fun of a design, are we forgetting that Apple is the company who designed and has its label on what you see as a toilet seat. You are using the same companies product that designed a toilet seat iBook. How about the cheese grater PMG5, however about the PMG4 with the 4 holes and speaker on the top of the case face. Yes, Apple has had some great looking and some off looking designs for they products I still do not see what this has to do with it. Hey the so called toiled seat had a nice handle to carry it. The PB Al design was taken from the iBook so what do you have to say about that. :rolleyes:

People do not try to justify the high price you payed for your *cough* iPowerBook, if it had a 2.0GHz dual core G4 that is a different story all together however that is not so. :)

I would love to look back on your post when they have a PBG5 and a Dual core G4 iBook....the only way Apple will cripple it is again systemBUS and ram speed as usual there is no way a consumer notebook can outperform a high priced PRO notebook. :eek:

Go ahead line Apples profit pockets by buying more PowerBooks be sure Steve and Co are laughing as am I. :)Agreed

[Jsmit]

What is this talk about G5 PB and dual core G4 iBooks? The guy asked about the current models not some possible future models. We can only buy todays models.

I chose a 12"PB when I had to make this decsision (in september around the Paris Expo before the iBook updates). Look at it this way, the PB is tomorrows iBook, today. If I want tomorrows iBook today I can wait until tomorrow (actually probably about 9 months), or I can spend some extra green (or whatever color your money is) and buy a PB. Of course I could save some doe, but having the computer for an extra year is worth that to me. The next iBook revision and current PB revisions will likely become obsolete at the same time. Oh and my PB has features that your next years iBooks wont (my factory support monitor spanning for one).

The iBook is a very fine machine, but the PowerBook is a better machine. Is the price difference worth your extra money? Only you can decide that.

[oingoboingo]

Go to an Expo and play with the machines take a look at what is is running off.....Apples machines have to perform well and there is no way they are going to put in 128MB ram as the minimal requirement for OS X they use 512MB as the least if not more.<snip>

These are some interesting opinions. The Core Image API and applications built on top of it will surely have a big 'wow' factor. I thought that the demo given at the last WWDC was one of the most impressive features coming up in Tiger. This is why I am interested to read about the hardware requirements for Core Image, both in absolute minimum terms and optimal terms. I cannot find any specific documentation on Apple's web site which indicates any type of hardware requirement beyond an nVidia FX 5200 or ATI Radeon 9600 Pro GPU, although I have not had enough time to conduct a really extensive search.

Once again, if you have access to early ADC developer documentation for Tiger which covers the hardware aspect of the operating system, or if you have early access to the Tiger beta software and can run some tests on low VRAM and high VRAM configurations, I'd love to see some benchmarks or documentation snippets. This information would not only be interesting from a purely technical perspective, but will also aid the future purchasing decisions of many people on this board. Thanks for your help.

[betsbillabong]

Maya's is just one opinion. Whether it's a bargain is debatable, but the powerbook is a much sweeter computer than the ibook, at a price, especially the 15". For some of us, the experience is worth more than the sum of its parts. And some of us need the extra power. (I do agree that the fully maxed out $3K powerbook is not a great value, though).

Anyhow, to the person who bought the computer - don't mourn, you have a sweet new computer. You should be lovin' it! Return it if it will make you feel better and if you have time, but chances are that this computer will do what you need it to for a good few years. At worst you won't be able to see the new "genie-effect" type things. Who cares? I turn all that stuff off anyhow to optimize my computer.

Life is short and computers are a small part of it.

[CaptainCaveMann]

These are some interesting opinions. The Core Image API and applications built on top of it will surely have a big 'wow' factor. I thought that the demo given at the last WWDC was one of the most impressive features coming up in Tiger. This is why I am interested to read about the hardware requirements for Core Image, both in absolute minimum terms and optimal terms. I cannot find any specific documentation on Apple's web site which indicates any type of hardware requirement beyond an nVidia FX 5200 or ATI Radeon 9600 Pro GPU, although I have not had enough time to conduct a really extensive search.

Once again, if you have access to early ADC developer documentation for Tiger which covers the hardware aspect of the operating system, or if you have early access to the Tiger beta software and can run some tests on low VRAM and high VRAM configurations, I'd love to see some benchmarks or documentation snippets. This information would not only be interesting from a purely technical perspective, but will also aid the future purchasing decisions of many people on this board. Thanks for your help.I dont mean to single you out but dude this is so off topic

[oingoboingo]

I dont mean to single you out but dude this is so off topic

Sorry. Maybe time to shift the Core Image-related stuff and GPU support/VRAM requirements to a different thread.

[Jdm_rsx]

i wouldn't say that its SOOO OFF TOPIC

but he/she just wanted to compare it to diff programs and just how it is...

requirements maybe it will change peoples mind about the powerbook

either way im retarded so u can choose to ignore me

= ) :eek: :D

[maya]

Sorry. Maybe time to shift the Core Image-related stuff and GPU support/VRAM requirements to a different thread.

Okay I will make it short and sweet, I know a couple of Apple Techs, they get the latest "Tiger" seeds and test it out just to keep themselves up to date.

They also have a price list of what Apple parts cost and putting the components together the 12" iBook has very very little profit margin for Apple, believe it.

I also asked them to if they had a chance to test out the build of "Tiger" that was given at WWDC 2004 and right down to the latest build and it does seem that though Core Image is scalable for the things that were shown at WWDC and Expo Paris (where the iMac G5 was released) that Core Image will run slow on 64MB of GPU ram. Even if you go to an Expo and poke around (and the Apple employees do not like when you hang around the one system for too long) anyhow carrying on you will see that the system even the PMG5 are running on 512 and up worth of ram, even the 5400 is not present on those machines they are using 128MB ram GPU.

If you honestly believe that during the keynotes that Apple or whom ever is doing a demo of QuickTime, FCP, etc... that they are using Stock models you are kidding yourself, They are using max ram 8GB and using the fastest GPU they can get they hands on (since companies such as ATI and NVIDIA give Apple demo GPU cards for testing and Expo Floor models and Keynote Demos).

Again if you believe that your 64MB GPU is going to have the same Core Image editing speed that was demonstrated you are living in a dream world, you will need at minimum a 128MB a 64MB will be like running OS X with 128MB of ram. Think about it Apple is in this business to make money if they sell you a STOCK machine that can demonstrate speeds of editing, rendering that is demoed in the Keynotes they might as well charge you more than what they are now or put a "Out of Business" sign on they front door.

The iMac G5 is only "Tiger" compliant because its the "IN" Product and Apple needs it to support they new OS as well its a new model all together. The iBook and eMac on the other hand are not making a processor jump only updates so until there is an eMac G5 or an iBook G5 that was going to be released then you would see a similar situation as the iMac G5 had with "Tiger" support.

Anyhow believe what you want I already spoke to 2 different Apple Tech's in regards to it and they both will tell you pretty much what I said, heck I hate to say this however one of they even said the iMac G5 is not worth it and laughed when I even mentioned Core Image.

Mac OS X.3 minimum ram requirements 128MB

Core Image minimum GPU ram requirements 64MB

Do the match and see past the smoke and mirrors or the RDF of Steve Jobs.

I like Apple products however I also know better than to believe that OS X will run fine on 128MB of ram. As Quartz Extreme had a 16MB minimum of GPU ram.

Anyhow I didn't say all the PowerBooks are a rotten deal if you want the large screen the 15 and 17" ones are alright however don't expect Core image to fly on those system unless you upgraded the GPU to 128MB and I highly recommend that you do, any PB system that does not offer this is pointless you might as well buy an 12" iBook instead. :)

P.S. The only reason Apple even included the 5200 was because its the bottom end GPU card installed in the iMac G5 and the low end PMG5 along with the GO chips in the PB line so they don't have a lawsuit when "Tiger" is released. :) They were smart enough that people actually bought into this, heck they are still selling the PB and low end PM with those 5200 GPU card, ROTF. :)

Also of note the 12" iBook that I just did a whole check and installed max ram for a teacher who teaches with Apple PRO apps the system has no problems considering its a portable and not a 2.5GHz dual G5 its very decent at what it does. Motion is slow as expected since motion loads a lot in RAM and is recommended that one has 2GB of it, the iBook will only take 1280 to date so its slow on it as expected. :)

[maya]

What is this talk about G5 PB and dual core G4 iBooks? The guy asked about the current models not some possible future models. We can only buy todays models.

I chose a 12"PB when I had to make this decsision (in september around the Paris Expo before the iBook updates). Look at it this way, the PB is tomorrows iBook, today. If I want tomorrows iBook today I can wait until tomorrow (actually probably about 9 months), or I can spend some extra green (or whatever color your money is) and buy a PB. Of course I could save some doe, but having the computer for an extra year is worth that to me. The next iBook revision and current PB revisions will likely become obsolete at the same time. Oh and my PB has features that your next years iBooks wont (my factory support monitor spanning for one).

The iBook is a very fine machine, but the PowerBook is a better machine. Is the price difference worth your extra money? Only you can decide that.

Why do you honestly believe that Apple disables the screen spanning on the iBook to set it apart or is it that if the iBook had screen spanning active that people will not invest the money to buy an 12" PB and much rather a 12" iBook. :rolleyes:

Anything the PB can do the iBook can do too, the only way Apple can con its loyal customers is by crippling one line as they have with the iMac G5, if people had a choice of an 12" iBook with a 1.2Ghz, screen spanning active, so on minus a few ports like FW 800 which the 12" PB does not even have I believe the 12" PB is pretty much dead in the water.

Sorry to burst your bubble however the PB Al too its design model from the iBook white models. And the only reason why the iBook got the slot loading drive from the PB was due to cost when slot loading drives had made its way to the market. The iBook as a true mobile still has an advantage over the PB in areas such as:

WiFi signal strength.
Battery life.
Ruggedness.

By the way though the iBook does not have a PC slot I use a USB link to my phone and get a rather good deal on it from my provider plus its more flexible option than a PC slot. (you will know what I mean if you actually use it).

A portable has never really been about POWER however if you must have Power in a portable the gap between an iBook and PB are very very narrow. Please do not show me those bench marks its a given that the PB will win by a bit since it has an advantage with a little more systemBUS speed, ram speed, processor speed (depending on model) and HDD speed. Adding 512 ram in both system is no going to compensate for the little loss in those areas compensate for that lack in the iBook by give the PB 512 and the iBook 512 + either a 64 / 128 / 256 extra. :)

[Jsmit]

...

Anything the PB can do the iBook can do too, ...

Sorry to burst your bubble however the PB Al too its design model from the iBook white models. .... The iBook as a true mobile still has an advantage over the PB in areas such as:

WiFi signal strength.
Battery life.
Ruggedness.

...


My PB can connect to a DVI monitor, your iBook can't.
My PB can span with said monitor, if it was a VGA monitor then I guess it could if you like to hack your new iBook.
My PB will support core image (although probably not very speedly), oh your iBook can't.
I can hook a electric guitar directly to my PB and record in GB, iBook can't.
Must we go on.

I like the looks of both the iBook line and the PB line. Actually using my bosses iBook is what made me realize it was time to upgrade from the iMac.

iBooks do have slightly better WiFi, can't argue with that. My PB 520c has 8hrs of battery life (with new batteries), dosn't make it a better portatable (ok that is not a fair comparison). Ruggedness? PBs are plenty rugged. How does the post go: "Help I dropped my PB case is dented but everything else works, ho do I fix the case." I've read about flawless PB preformance in the outback, getting banged around. Still I'll give the iBook a slight edge.

M A Y A, I agree the iBook is a slightly better value at this time, but I would still buy the PB again (I love this keybaord).

[edit forgot the post]

[maya]

Silent moment. :o :)

[Jsmit]

Silent moment. :o :)

yeah I know, hit the submit button too soon, oops. :o ;)

[maya]

yeah I know, hit the submit button too soon, oops. :o ;)

That is quite alright. :)

ONE MORE month till MWSF 2005. :) See what's new in it for us all.



P.S. I also have a PowerBook I am a Mac notebook person so I know the pros and cons of each system. :)


I believe this topic has been going on for far too long if you want to talk about Core Image lets start a new thread. :)


by the way there are no spaces in my name someone already took my name and that person is inactive so I had to think fast. :)

--M

[Jsmit]

Maya,

I agree, we now all know the pros and cons.

I actually agree with a lot of what you said, just not that the PowerBooks are a waste of money.

peace

-J

[Jdm_rsx]

Maya,

I agree, we now all know the pros and cons.

I actually agree with a lot of what you said, just not that the PowerBooks are a waste of money.

peace

-J


THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCh, now i can sleep soundly

= )

[maya]

Anyone want to post benchmarks for they PB or iBook? :)

[Jdm_rsx]

bench marks???? :confused:

[nimbus]

All of this was very good to hear. I'm a Graphic Communication student and I was planning on getting a laptop. With all the talks of iBook vs. PowerBook, I now know what to do. Dude, I'm getting a Dell! :cool:

[oingoboingo]

Okay I will make it short and sweet, I know a couple of Apple Techs, they get the latest "Tiger" seeds and test it out just to keep themselves up to date.

Thank you m a y a for keeping it short (781 words). However, a shorter way of answering my original question ("Do you have access to developer documentation or benchmarks which support your claims") would just have been "No". When Tiger is finally released, I'm sure we can arrrange to benchmark some Core Image applications on an iBook and some PowerBooks and see how they compare. Thank you for investing what must have been a considerable amount time in sharing your opinions with us.

[maya]

Thank you m a y a for keeping it short (781 words). However, a shorter way of answering my original question ("Do you have access to developer documentation or benchmarks which support your claims") would just have been "No". When Tiger is finally released, I'm sure we can arrrange to benchmark some Core Image applications on an iBook and some PowerBooks and see how they compare. Thank you for investing what must have been a considerable amount time in sharing your opinions with us.

791 words for me is short, and depends compared to what. :)

As I have said I will have to ask for benchmarks however like all ADC members I am not allowed to post them up here I can give you an idea of what it is like. I have spoke to Apple Tech about this 3rd party and though they can tell me verbally I am not posting any scores for it.

If you want to believe what you want in regards to Core Image then go ahead set yourself for disappointment I never said it won't run on 64MB or even 32MB it is scalable however 64MB is to take advantage of everything it has to offer and it does not run fast at all with 64MB GPU you need 128MB GPU, when its released and find out for yourself you can paint you face red, right now its Apples NDA unless you lived close by I could have told you verbally heck I will even arrange a meeting with the Apple Tech and both of them can confirm it as well.

Other than that you can say what you want I have done benchmark test for CPU on an iBook with stock ram on a battery and they get a score of 104+ points, remember this is stock ram, battery driven, 4200 rpm HDD try comparing that to your PB. :)

The money you invested into your PB now next year when they have more technology included such as maybe FireWireless or BT standard on all notebook lines or maybe even a faster GPU 64MB compared to the now 32MB we shall see who is laughing then. :)

[pubwvj]

Why would i need audio-in port?

I use the audio-in on my PowerBook Pismo to record my vinyl and cassette recordings to MP3 so I can listen to them on my computer. I no longer use the stereo system but just listen to music on the computer, using Airport Express or headphones, or with my MP3 player (Creative Labs Nomad MG II).

-Walter
in Vermont

[Floop]

Does the recent price drop indicate that no new PowerBooks will be arriving at MWSF?

If new models are arriving... why would Apple drop the old prices for one week...

[maya]

Does the recent price drop indicate that no new PowerBooks will be arriving at MWSF?

If new models are arriving... why would Apple drop the old prices for one week...

Could very well be, Get More For Less, kind of a deal with the new updates. Could also be that they need to clear out old stock/inventory for newer models to be released. :)