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ipedro
Sep 1, 2010, 07:41 PM
At first glance, it appears that Apple missed an incredible opportunity today by not announcing apps for AppleTV. But read in between the lines: They did.

Apps are coming to your TV, just not how you thought they were.

With iOS 4.2 you'll already be able to beam the content from 3 apps to your AppleTV: Video, Music and Photos. The real revolution will come when Apple opens this to 3rd parties.

The living room will be conquered by iPads and iPods. Apps will be hosted on iOS devices and beamed to your TV. AppleTV will simply be a liaison between your personal iOS devices and your TV.

Apple recognized that the biggest potential isn't in selling these TV boxes, it is in selling iPads, iPods and iPhones. It's a brilliant move.

The next step will be on the iOS side. Apps will come to AppleTV, but not on the device itself. iOS 5 next year will introduce the ability for apps to stream to an external screen via AirPlay. At the next WWDC, developers will be given new API's that will allow them to specify a UI for a second screen in HD.

For example, games will have their controls on your handheld iOS device while the main action will take place on your big screen. A news App would display the story in your hands while video and photos would show up on your HD TV. A sports app would display stats on the small display and visual content on the big one.

In May 2010, I posted the following scenario in this forum. It is still relevant today and I see the realization of this vision coming together with today's announcement.



A scenario:
Mom, Dad, Timmy and Sally all have their own iPhones and iPod Touches with their personal tastes and personalities reflected in those libraries. There's also a family iMac and an iPad.

Timmy and Dad are sitting on the couch watching a TV show episode that Dad just purchased on his iPhone. When he pressed play on his iPhone, he selected "Living Room TV" as the output source.

Technical note: Because content is no longer stored on any given device, and instead in the Lala cloud -- now called iTunes Cloud -- the iPhone only sent the instructions to the small device plugged behind the TV which is now streaming it from the cloud. The iPhone isn't doing any heavy lifting.

Sally walks in and thinks that the star of the TV show is kinda cute so she pulls out her iPod Touch, opens the new TV app to see what's playing on the TV and brings up the credits of the TV show now playing. She finds the name of the actor, does a Wikipedia search and finds out he's from their town!

Sally: Look Dad, Trent Cutie is from Springfield!
Dad: I thought I recognized him. What other tv shows or movies has he been in?

On her iPod Touch, with Safari running, Sally brings up the new iPhonesOS 4.0 Screen Push feature and sends the feed from her iPod Touch to the living room TV for everybody to see what she's browsing.

Mom walks into the living room with the iPad and asks what everybody wants for dinner. She opens the Jamie Kennedy's 20 Minute Meals app and pushes her screen to the living room TV as they all review some options.

They choose Lemon Herb Chicken and mom leaves with Timmy to make dinner. Dad resumes the TV show on his iPhone and him and Sally finish watching Trent Cutie's show on the living room TV.

With the inclusion of AirPlay in AppleTV, the stage is set for it to become a link from your iOS devices to your TV. By making AirPlay an industry standard that can be included in new TV's everybody will want to jump on the Apple bandwagon. We'll begin seeing TVs that can stream content from iPads, iPods and iPhones. AppleTV is Apple's version in this space, but to their benefit, not exclusive.

Stay tuned. A living room entertainment revolution was announced today. We just don't know it yet.



Icaras
Sep 1, 2010, 07:51 PM
The living room will be conquered by iPads and iPods. Apps will be hosted on iOS devices and beamed to your TV. AppleTV will simply be a liaison between your personal iOS devices and your TV.

Apple recognized that the biggest potential isn't in selling these TV boxes, it is in selling iPads, iPods and iPhones. It's a brilliant move.

Stay tuned. A living room entertainment revolution was announced today. We just don't know it yet.

Revolutions sometimes don't hit people right away, as it takes time to sink in.

I think you've got a great theory there and I'm inclined to believe you that Apple TV just reinforces the selling point for it's portable iOS devices.

Theres more to this equation than just the Apple TV in itself and I like how you bring up reasons why the app market didn't come into play on the Apple TV.

We'll definitely see whats in store in the future.

8CoreWhore
Sep 1, 2010, 07:52 PM
I completely agree. So much more coming down the pipe....

The bigger news is what it's capable of... of what Apple didn't say... not in what they did say.

I laughed out loud today when on TWIG, (I think it was...) when someone said, "Google dodged a bullet today, Apple fails to launch.." hahaha

First of all, Apple adds features in layers, secondly - Google has no product at all! (regarding content on the TV - GoogleTV)

But somehow, they are ahead of Apple? :D:cool:

ipedro
Sep 1, 2010, 08:02 PM
Going back to read my original theory from months ago, I'm kind of baffled at the accuracy of the prediction and the actual implementation announced today. Keep in mind that I wrote this in May... 4 months ago:



Timmy and Dad are sitting on the couch watching a TV show episode that Dad just purchased on his iPhone. When he pressed play on his iPhone, he selected "Living Room TV" as the output source.



Wow :eek: lol

gerabbi
Sep 1, 2010, 11:17 PM
At first glance, it appears that Apple missed an incredible opportunity today by not announcing apps for AppleTV. But read in between the lines: They did.

Apps are coming to your TV, just not how you thought they were.

With iOS 4.2 you'll already be able to beam the content from 3 apps to your AppleTV: Video, Music and Photos. The real revolution will come when Apple opens this to 3rd parties.

The living room will be conquered by iPads and iPods. Apps will be hosted on iOS devices and beamed to your TV. AppleTV will simply be a liaison between your personal iOS devices and your TV.

Apple recognized that the biggest potential isn't in selling these TV boxes, it is in selling iPads, iPods and iPhones. It's a brilliant move.

The next step will be on the iOS side. Apps will come to AppleTV, but not on the device itself. iOS 5 next year will introduce the ability for apps to stream to an external screen via AirPlay. At the next WWDC, developers will be given new API's that will allow them to specify a UI for a second screen in HD.

For example, games will have their controls on your handheld iOS device while the main action will take place on your big screen. A news App would display the story in your hands while video and photos would show up on your HD TV. A sports app would display stats on the small display and visual content on the big one.

In May 2010, I posted the following scenario in this forum. It is still relevant today and I see the realization of this vision coming together with today's announcement.



With the inclusion of AirPlay in AppleTV, the stage is set for it to become a link from your iOS devices to your TV. By making AirPlay an industry standard that can be included in new TV's everybody will want to jump on the Apple bandwagon. We'll begin seeing TVs that can stream content from iPads, iPods and iPhones. AppleTV is Apple's version in this space, but to their benefit, not exclusive.

Stay tuned. A living room entertainment revolution was announced today. We just don't know it yet.

Quite prophetic, imho:)

AVonGauss
Sep 1, 2010, 11:23 PM
If your interest is third party applications, you may want to wait for the tear down to see exactly how much flash is present on the device.

MICHAELSD
Sep 1, 2010, 11:58 PM
Apps will probably be loaded into RAM using an iPhone/iPad as if it was a HDD or flash drive, which would work well with three-way universal apps and games. This would be an elegant solution to very little local disk space, and apps and games would have already needed an iPhone or iPad to control them (unless third party controllers were released), so while you're using your iPhone/iPad as a remote, Apple TV is using it as if it were a HDD.

applefanDrew
Sep 2, 2010, 12:25 AM
For me the biggest deal breaker to this Apple TV model is no live streaming. I'm a huge NFL fan, so until they can stream NFL games (Dallas Cowboys!) live, in real time, I don't see how this could take off. Many people enjoy sports, as well as the various news channels.

liquidsuns
Sep 2, 2010, 02:50 AM
Brilliant.

UnseenLlama
Sep 2, 2010, 03:16 AM
For me the biggest deal breaker to this Apple TV model is no live streaming. I'm a huge NFL fan, so until they can stream NFL games (Dallas Cowboys!) live, in real time, I don't see how this could take off. Many people enjoy sports, as well as the various news channels.

That's just it though. If you have the ability to shoot any app's video to your TV thru AirPlay, you have your solution. Think ABC Player, Hulu Plus, DirectTV apps being able to display their video over the air and thru your AppleTV. As I've said in previous threads, with Sunday Ticket opening up to non-DirectTV subscribers, you'd be able to simply launch the DirectTV app, start watching a live NFL game that is beamed to your TV. :cool:

ipedro
Sep 2, 2010, 08:13 AM
^ You said it.

What some people are not grasping is that Apple realized that they can't win with a set top box. This is why they dumbed down the new AppleTV to something most people would understand and reduced the price so that it is considered an accessory to iOS devices.

They have found an elegant solution to use the devices that are already in the hands of millions and bring that content to the living room through AppleTV.

diminiko
Sep 2, 2010, 09:10 AM
^ You said it.

What some people are not grasping is that Apple realized that they can't win with a set top box. This is why they dumbed down the new AppleTV to something most people would understand and reduced the price so that it is considered an accessory to iOS devices.

They have found an elegant solution to use the devices that are already in the hands of millions and bring that content to the living room through AppleTV.

Very astute analysis!

People often pay more for iOS accessories than $99 like speakers, headphones etc. This could be best marketed as another useful iOS accessory that entrenches these devises into everyday life.

The more seamlessly the computer-ipad-iphone-TV systems integrate the more iOS will be the standard for all such devices. Users ultimately want simple, intuitive and integrated products that just work. 720 v 1080 is moot for the general public- it's all HD as far as 90% of the population is concerned.

iPhone is a great example. It is not the most powerful device that technology can provide, but my girlfriend can use it intuitively, pick apps and games to play with one touch. These skills are now interchangeable with iPad, ipod and ATV. If I gave her a droid or windows phone, she would have given up on it in a heart beat. If I give her a remote for ATV and say pick a movie and press play- jobs done and we are eating popcorn! Ask her to download from amazon then plug in the laptop to the TV then start the browser, choose screen settings.... no popcorn- we have to talk about her feelings!

ipedro
Sep 2, 2010, 11:48 AM
iPad is already the ideal living room device. What was missing was a way to display its content on the big screen. AppleTV has now filled that need and future AirPlay enabled TV's will do so as well.

Apple is getting out of the proven-to-fail set top box and betting on the lap top iPad.

It's incredible that no other technology writer has picked this up yet. Every one of them is lamenting that Apple didn't release an AppleTV with Apps. Are they all blind??

MacRumors, I'll offer to write an article on this if you'd like to publish it on the front page so that people can understand where Apple is heading with this.

ftaok
Sep 2, 2010, 12:05 PM
For me the biggest deal breaker to this Apple TV model is no live streaming. I'm a huge NFL fan, so until they can stream NFL games (Dallas Cowboys!) live, in real time, I don't see how this could take off. Many people enjoy sports, as well as the various news channels.

Well, for the NFL and local news, you could use the tuner that's present on your TV. If you like baseball, perhaps the MLB app can be ported to aTV. Basketball and hockey are more problematic at the moment.

National news agencies could produce an app that streams the feed directly to the aTV ... or it could be like the ABC New app for the ipad.

boston04and07
Sep 2, 2010, 12:22 PM
I think that this is a brilliant theory. Well said! And wouldn't something like this work so much better than having yet another iOS device with it's own set of apps to manage and maintain. During the keynote yesterday, Jobs said something about watching a movie on your iPad and then walking into your living room and beaming the rest of the movie on your TV screen. No syncing, no fuss - it would all be dead simple. As soon as he said that, I started to get a vague suspicion as to where this was all eventually going, and you've summarized it perfectly. And wouldn't this be so much better than having a remote app control a separate Apple TV app over wifi. I can't tell you how often my iphone's Remote app disconnects from my Apple TV when I'm trying to control it - so freaking annoying. But if it's the same app talking to two different devices, it could allow integration between the two that we simply wouldn't bother with right now. The example you gave about watching an MLB At Bat game on your TV while the scores are simultaneously shown on your iPhone is what I'm thinking of here. I hope this does indeed happen sooner rather than later. I want to be able to read on an iPad while listening to Pandora through my tv's speakers, but pause the music via my iPad if I need to. No fumbling for a second remote - everything in one device.

Speaking of which, who remembers the rumor going around that an iPhone or an iPad would act as a necessary remote to the Apple TV? People were up in arms that you'd need a $500 remote to control your TV, bit when you think of it this way...as the iDevice as the center of the system, and not just the peripheral...it makes perfect sense.

Can't think of the last time I wrote such a long response on MacRumors! This is an awesome idea, and I really hope you're right!

applefanDrew
Sep 2, 2010, 02:57 PM
That's just it though. If you have the ability to shoot any app's video to your TV thru AirPlay, you have your solution. Think ABC Player, Hulu Plus, DirectTV apps being able to display their video over the air and thru your AppleTV. As I've said in previous threads, with Sunday Ticket opening up to non-DirectTV subscribers, you'd be able to simply launch the DirectTV app, start watching a live NFL game that is beamed to your TV. :cool:


I'm sorry, I'm confused. Is Direct TV opening up their Sunday Ticket package to non-subscribers, or are you saying if they do, it will solve the problem?

ozozo42
Sep 2, 2010, 04:49 PM
I'm sorry, I'm confused. Is Direct TV opening up their Sunday Ticket package to non-subscribers, or are you saying if they do, it will solve the problem?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/08/directv-to-offer-sunday-ticket-football-package-online-to-nonsubscribers.html

I don't see a huge uptake, but the option is there!

ozozo42
Sep 2, 2010, 05:01 PM
Revolutions sometimes don't hit people right away, as it takes time to sink in.

I think you've got a great theory there and I'm inclined to believe you that Apple TV just reinforces the selling point for it's portable iOS devices.

Theres more to this equation than just the Apple TV in itself and I like how you bring up reasons why the app market didn't come into play on the Apple TV.

We'll definitely see whats in store in the future.

In the long run, Apple may have also set themselves up to completely bypass the "balkanized" landline internet market. Wireless providers are national, and once speeds improve and tons of content are available, people can choose to pay for only one wireless data service. Then, in addition to content on the original device, they can pump audio, video, or games to the living room tv.

applefanDrew
Sep 2, 2010, 05:03 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/08/directv-to-offer-sunday-ticket-football-package-online-to-nonsubscribers.html

I don't see a huge uptake, but the option is there!

Ah cool....but since my team is on National TV most of the time anyway, it wouldn't be advantageous for me right now. I am thinking about splitting the bill with my mother, though, and using her online id to stream it to my iPhone. Then I could stream it to the :apple:tv. They stream the game live to iPhones right?

kiranmk2
Sep 2, 2010, 05:13 PM
Nice ideas and probably in 5-10 years time that's where we'll be, when most people have a 10 Mbit+ connection and the mobile iOS devices will sync/stream from the cloud and act as interactive remotes for the ATV.

At the moment, the missing link is still somewhere to store content. After all, it's clear the AppleTV isn't destined to be the home's media server, and as photo/music/movie collections grow, it's clear they'll outgrow Mac hard drives. Come on Apple - where's the home media server? - that would allow streaming to all devices: Macs, mobile iOS devices and AppleTV (via Airplay).

Looking at the new AppleTV and the new Airplay service, I have to say what I would have done would have been to merge the AppleTV and Airport Express products together. After all, the new AppleTV is only a bit bigger than the Airport express and it basically offers very similar features - except video/photo streaming instead of just music. This would have allowed connection of an AirDisk via USB, acted as a WiFi extender/router and had the AppleTV functions. Combine with a Wibree/BlueTooth 4 remote (v. low power) for wireless remote control by default and it's a winner. We know the new AppleTV has bluetooth, so this would let you "hide" the AppleTV near the sockets. This would have at least given the AppleTV a bit more function. As it is, it's still asking people to stump up $99 for a box that then allows them to stump up more per film rental...

kemperman
Sep 2, 2010, 05:26 PM
I may be off topic a little here but, do we think that apple are kind of hedging their bets still a little with the new :apple:tv? They have updated to the A4 but the UI is essentially the same. Isn't inevitable that iOS will make an appearance eventually and that this is just a stop gap to placate the original :apple:tv buyer who would be completely shut out from the ecosystem if they just went fully iOS?

ozozo42
Sep 2, 2010, 06:03 PM
I may be off topic a little here but, do we think that apple are kind of hedging their bets still a little with the new :apple:tv? They have updated to the A4 but the UI is essentially the same. Isn't inevitable that iOS will make an appearance eventually and that this is just a stop gap to placate the original :apple:tv buyer who would be completely shut out from the ecosystem if they just went fully iOS?

OSX has a mouse/keyboard interface
iOS has a touch interface
AppleTV OS has a 10-ft interface

Underneath they're all basically the same, structurally. Using the iOS interface for the appletv with no modification to handle remote control would make no sense.

FrancisD
Sep 2, 2010, 07:43 PM
We know the new AppleTV has bluetooth

I can't find that in the tech specs, where did you see that?

benoitgphoto
Sep 2, 2010, 08:47 PM
I think you pretty much nailed that down and it's gonna be hell fun. This is a brilliant execution and fits exactly what Jobs said that the concept needs to be redesigned from square 1. Portable devices/computers/cloud streaming content (movies, TV shows, Internet, apps, etc) to the media center is what I call a complete redesign from square 1.

I"m curious though what connection (other than Bluetooth) can be fast enough to display games on the HD TV played on an iPod touch via Airplay.

Also, something else is coming too with that big server farm that is being built in North Carolina and will be up and running by the end of this year. That's for sure related to the Apple TV.

On a final comment, I sold my actual Apple TV tonight patiently waiting for the new one. I got a lot of requests for it in less that 12 hours. I thought it would have taken me 1 or 2 weeks to sell it. It's like people just don't figure out how the new cloud based Apple TV will work and the demand for the 1st Gen model with local storage just all of a sudden increases.

Chip NoVaMac
Sep 2, 2010, 10:02 PM
I am one of those that had thought of doing the original Apple TV... But didn't for a number of reasons...

This version is maybe what I have been looking for... but falls short in some ways...

As to what I have been looking for... something small and "inexpensive" that would stream content from my main Mac at home. Hoping that if one buys or has videos they have ripped on iTunes they are playable at least in the location that the home computer and TV set and Apple TV are in.

As a blogger on DVICE pointed out, the new Apple TV is small enough to take out on a date night out of the home - provided I take it that one's date has iTunes loaded on their computer and WIFI access.

About the falling short.... no browser ability from the start. Apple TV is now running on iOS4 for crying out loud! But I guess that is what my iPad is for now. LOL

Biggest omission IMO is that lack of iTunes Cloud use. How great would it be to be on a date night and to be able to share music, video, and photos? But that is the rub there. Not all folks have HSI to really support decent video playback.

The other is that Netflix sold their soul to Apple to be on the new Apple TV. While enjoy lots of the Instant View movies on Netflix - would rather see more recent movies on there. But Apple is going to look for their $5 movie rental to see a just released movie. Add to that Hulu was locked out... because Apple would lose 99 cent rentals on TV shows.

I love the idea of this new set-top box - but not sure I want to continue bleeding money to Apple. :(

jmor
Sep 2, 2010, 10:16 PM
To me at this point it's just okay, but it's all about the third-party apps. As soon as they can get those and tie the whole experience together, it will be a winner.

Chip NoVaMac
Sep 2, 2010, 10:29 PM
To me at this point it's just okay, but it's all about the third-party apps. As soon as they can get those and tie the whole experience together, it will be a winner.


Like the OP's idea of using our iPod, iPhone, or iPad Apps to feed in to this new box...

The Beatles
Sep 2, 2010, 10:49 PM
Going back to read my original theory from months ago, I'm kind of baffled at the accuracy of the prediction and the actual implementation announced today. Keep in mind that I wrote this in May... 4 months ago:




Wow :eek: lol



Good job. Keep in mind though...technologies future is pretty much written. I mean, Im sure once RFID chips are cheap/small enough and companies learn how to exploit them, there will be ways to instantly catalog all your items. Food, soap, tires for your car, your car. Instantly you have all the info at your finger tips. Refrigerators warn you that your about to leave the store without purchasing dish soap...yadda yadda. Its pretty much written already. We already have the tech for much more, its just getting someone to bring it all together and sell other companies on the idea.

jmor
Sep 2, 2010, 11:16 PM
Like the OP's idea of using our iPod, iPhone, or iPad Apps to feed in to this new box...

Haha, yes exactly. I guess I should have added the fact that I agree with the OP and hope their vision happens, and soon. That would be exactly what I want and what I hope Apple comes out with or updates with.

smetvid
Sep 2, 2010, 11:45 PM
I can almost agree with the OP except for one thing. Why not just include HDMI on the iPad in the first place? Most computers today have been able to feed HD video to an HDTV for at least a few years now. Heck even some netbooks can do this. There is nothing really new about this feature at all. Just a different spin on it that ends up costing more with more limitations.

I hear a lot of people saying who cares about the lack of 1080p but you all know that if the new Apple TV would have had 1080p video you would have all loved that.

I think the Apple TV could have been neat and it may be to a certain degree but I just do not see this selling iPads just to say you can play HD video through HDMI.

Are Americans really that lazy now that they cannot get off the couch to hook up a HDMI cable? Heck even the Droid X can play HD video through HDMI.

I love Apple computers but this just seems silly to me. The only advantage I see to the Apple TV is treating it like a very expensive wireless HDMI adapter that you can take with you to your friends house to say "hey look what I can do." Seriously though you would get the same coolness factor if the iPad would have just had HDMI to begin with.

ipedro
Sep 4, 2010, 11:47 AM
An HDMI cable would defeat the purpose. It's not just about mirroring what's on your iOS device on to the TV. It's about using the TV to enhance your experience.

Reading text is best done on an iPad. It's perfect for that. Viewing (and sharing) video or photos are a better experience on the big screen.

Once Apple opens Airplay to developers, tv will become your link between your personal iOS device (each person has their own) and the big screen.

As in the scenario in the original post, you'll be able to beam content from an app to your tv to share it with your friends and family rather than everybody huddling around a little iPhone or iPad.

Apple finally figured it out.