Confirmed: Yushchenko was poisoned

[Thomas Veil]

Jesus, this poor guy...


VIENNA, Austria*Dec 11, 2004 —*Dioxin poisoning caused the mysterious illness of Ukrainian presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko, doctors said Saturday.

Tests run over the past 24 hours provided conclusive evidence of the poisoning, Dr. Michael Zimpfer, director of Vienna's private Rudolfinerhaus clinic said.

"There is no doubt about the fact that Mr. Yushchenko's disease has been caused by a case of poisoning by dioxin," Zimpfer said.
I have only one thought and one question regarding this.

The thought is: with American politics getting progressively nastier, could this be the next frontier against the Democrats?

The question (for anyone with medical knowledge) is: is dioxin poisoning something you can recover from?

Link (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=321049)

[stubeeef]

Or the flip, one used by dems vs repubs! Which I believe more likely.

[skunk]

Leaving aside the trivial question of US domestic politics for a moment, how does anyone think this will play in Ukraine?

[miloblithe]

I imagine it will play out in Ukraine like it would here: most would interpret it through the fanatical lens of their particular political ideology. Western, Russian Ukrainians will interpret it as a plot by the West and a lie. Eastern, nationalist Ukrainians will interpret it as a Russian plot and the truth. Very few people will probably really stop to think about what's going on, whatever that might be.

As for the U.S., TV and Stu, c'mon. We have corruption, cheating, and lies in abundance, but I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to try to poison or otherwise murder a national candidate here. Notice that Yushchenko had to fly to Vienna for treatment. In the U.S., good medical treatment (for someone who can easily afford it like a candidate) is too readily at hand. It sould happen on the local level. Anything can happen on the local level, but national? No way.

[stubeeef]

We have corruption, cheating, and lies in abundance, but I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to try to poison or otherwise murder a national candidate here.

When I lived overseas, young military guys away from home used to talk about how corrupt the locals are/were. I would constantly tell them that actually in some ways they were less corrupt by the fact they were open about it, instead of pretending not to be. Yes there is plenty of corruption i the US, no doubt. In previous threads I mentioned that I want to repatriate to Australia or NZ in the early mid 90's, the wife wouldn't bite off.

THE SINGLE LARGEST PROBLEM WITHIN THE US, IS EDUCATION! Change it for the better and within 20 years you have a better US.

As for the U.S., TV and Stu, c'mon.
How convient of you to forget the threads author, are you corrupt too? :rolleyes: Or an honest gaff?

[Thomas Veil]

Well, to answer my own second question, I finally found a link:


Dr Korpan said that Mr Yushchenko should be able to make a full recovery but needed to get back to the clinic. “We are waiting to check him as soon as possible and then we can say what he needs.”
And earlier in the same article, these points are made:


Asked if the aim had been to kill him, Dr Korpan said: “Yes, of course.”

Proof that Mr Yushchenko was deliberately poisoned would be a devastating blow for his rival, the Prime Minister, Viktor Yanukovych, as the two candidates prepare for a repeat of a presidential run-off on December 26.

It would raise questions about whether the poisoning was ordered by Mr Yanukovych, his allies, or even the Kremlin, which fears that Mr Yushchenko will take Ukraine out of its sphere of influence by joining Nato and the EU.

Mr Yushchenko had said recently that he would soon reveal proof that his opponents had tried to assassinate him, but a spokeswoman said he had no plans to travel to Vienna.
Link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1393172,00.html)

Even without proof, the damage to Yanukovych is, I'm sure, irreparable. And if Yushchenko does indeed have proof regarding the identity of his would-be assassin, it'll be a huge story...especially if Putin is in some way involved.

I wish I could be as confident as milo that it couldn't happen here. But Lee Atwater, Roger Ailes and now Karl Rove have each in their turns taken campaign corruption to new and dangerous depths.

Think about what's happened in just the last few years. They tried everything to discredit Clinton, including completely made-up stories like Troopergate and the so-called Clintonian assassination of Vince Foster and others. They actually found a number of veterans who hated Kerry so much that they would, as a group, lie on national TV regarding Kerry's war record, just to slime him. Just as these things probably would have been unthinkable in the days of the Kennedy-Nixon campaign, so I believe that we are progressing (if you can dignify it with that term) towards new, even scummier techniques.

Would Karl Rove do something like poisoning a candidate? I doubt it. But as I said, there seems to be a progression towards lower, more dangerous methods of winning elections, and I don't put it past somebody who succeeds Rove. In each election, the neo-cons seem to have less and less of a problem with morality where winning is concerned...and some day that just might bottom out.

As far as the medical treatment issue, well...there are faster-acting, almost untraceable poisons....

[takao]

another link in german (http://derstandard.at/?id=1888030)

provides a few additional information

they aren't sure if it's only dioxin ..it could have been multiple poison/substances..and because of symponms it's clear that the poison entered the body through the mouth...

[miloblithe]

How convient of you to forget the threads author, are you corrupt too? :rolleyes: Or an honest gaff?

That's who I meant by "TV". I'm a lazy typist.

Let me clarify my point. It's not for any moral reason that I don't think that this would be unlikely in the U.S., I just think that rational people would find it too risky. Far less risky and still very effective (note that dead people have won elections) is smear campaigns, push polling, and vote suppression that's hard to prove. Rove certainly has shown he knows no bounds of decency in a campaign, but I don't think he'd accept the risks involved.

[stubeeef]

M, sorry, i misunderstood.

[blackfox]

milo, I was under the impression that Western Ukraine was the Nationalist half and Eastern Ukraine the pro-Russian section.

[miloblithe]

milo, I was under the impression that Western Ukraine was the Nationalist half and Eastern Ukraine the pro-Russian section.

oops. You're absolutely right.

stupid brain. always messing me up.

[pseudobrit]

Taking a page from the Rove Handbook* as applied to John Kerry, Yanukovych would be wise to spin this as a case of self-poisoning.

If John Kerry can use a grenade so precisely as to self-inflict minor wounds for the purpose of becoming a war hero to bolster a future political career, then I think Yushchenko could have been doing PVC shooters to bolster his.

* Karl Rove Handbook of Dirty Little Campaign Tricks and General Skullduggery, ed. 5, © 2004

[Durandal7]

Anyone who thinks American politics are getting progressively nastier should read about some past elections, this election looks remarkably civil in comparison.

As for poisoning the Democrats, I don't think the Republicans need to poison them to win. Whatever one may think of John Kerry or George W. Bush's policies, I sincerely doubt either of them wanted to the see the other one dead.

I am sorry for posting a viewpoint contrary to "the conservatives are evil Nazis out to kill everyone" view that seems to be prevelant here.

[Xtremehkr]

And I thought this kind of stuff only happened in my beloved Dune novels.

I don't know why anyone would think that politics is nice. It would take a lot to make the system better, something similar to the Jihad the right is leading against liberalism right now in order to control government.

[mactastic]

I am sorry for posting a viewpoint contrary to "the conservatives are evil Nazis out to kill everyone" view that seems to be prevelant here.


Don't be sorry, just don't think that represents the views of all of us.