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iDisk
Sep 3, 2010, 10:10 PM
In my opinion, Apple has crippled the device and rendered it less usful then it previous model.... Apple is telling you what you can do with a device you purchase, (which basically means) you never own the Apple TV cause it doesn't do what you may want it to do (ie: Like buying Movies and storing them on a harddisk) surely users would be glad to pay the same price for a Apple Tv with updated internals (Like the A4 and adding 720p capability, etc...) , I'm not sure about you but I wouldn't entertain "renting" everything. What happens if I want to buy a season of a episode after I've "rented" it? With this current iteration of Apple Tv you can't. Apple is telling it's users " You buy our device or in this case Hobby, and we tell you what you can't do on it" which is buy movies and tv shows. Buying a season of certain Tv shows cost between $20-30 average. Let's say I rent multiple episodes say 3/4 from a season and watch them 4/5 each. So if you take 4 episodes watched 5x each that's 20times or $20 of rented shows when I could have bought directly onto the device.

Someone may say just go to your computer and buy the seasons and stream it to your Apple Tv. That is an Option (even now), but Apple Should have listened to customers and said, let's do a Apple Tv that has a 500Gb HD in it, with an HDMI port capable of 720p. Why not keep it simply? Why doesn't Apple Allow users to CHOOSE what they do when they buy their product?

Here's why I think Apple is slowly starting to run a, we do what we want and since we now have TONS of cash, we can get away with it mentality.

And it's because there current Consumers aren't making a stand saying NO we want a Apple Tv with this and that and this. Not an Apple tv Steve Wants for us. Another example of Apple not caring about users is the iPhone 4 and the beta software of Snow Leopard when it was launched, and Aperature 3.

Oh yeah and the "new icon" change is gonna be a indication as to a slow migration of Mac OS becoming iOS dominate.

I enjoy Apple and there products (I'm typing this on my iPhone 3Gs), but there sneaky Big Brother "control" over what we do after we paid for something is disturbing IMO.



brayhite
Sep 3, 2010, 10:40 PM
If Ford put out a car that didn't have backseat cup holders, are they telling me I can't drink something in the backseat now? Just because Apple has taken certain functions/features out of a product doesn't mean they are telling the consumer in a "we do what we want" fashion that they are no longer allowed to do it. They are just eliminating features and functions that they deem inferior or unnecessary. Of course there are always naysayers, but there are also plenty of people lining up at the doors to get their hands on the product, so they must be doing something right.

It's rather ridiculous for critics to say Apple is trying to control the consumers' abilities when all they are doing is modifying a product to what they deem appropriate. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Icculus
Sep 3, 2010, 10:42 PM
I am probably the minority but I think Apple finally got it RIGHT with the AppleTV. I could care less how big the internal drive is, it will not support my library which is over 2TB now. So having a HD on the AppleTV is pretty much useless since I can only have a fraction of my library on it, and even so then its duplicated across multiple devices which is something I do not want. Streaming everything from my Mac Pro is fine as its on 24/7 as I work from home, so streaming for me personally is a win/win. I get ALL my library at once, streamed over 100bt. Yes you could stream with last AppleTV, but shows were too expensive and I was never interested in buying TV Shows as I only watch them once. However with this model I can rent EVERYTHING for $1, watch it be done and move on. To each their own, but I really think Apple did a great job on this product...I can finally cancel Cable and have my Tivo HD for OTA shows and AppleTV for the rest...and I will save a ton of money by saving $80 a month that I would have spent on cable.

Ovenall
Sep 3, 2010, 10:46 PM
My wife and I watch 0-2 movies per week, usually on a Sunday night. Apple TV is $99 and will stream my Netflix to my TV/surround system. And it has some other extras.

I have no desire to hoard movies or TV shows on a hard drive somewhere. I watch a film and then go on to do something else. Not everyone is a collector or dedicated to saving every downloaded bit to disk. I watch films for enjoyment, not an obsessive lifestyle choice.

Not every person is like you. I think Apple TV is doing the right thing here.

Icculus
Sep 3, 2010, 10:47 PM
My wife and I watch 0-2 movies per week, usually on a Sunday night. Apple TV is $99 and will stream my Netflix to my TV/surround system. And it has some other extras.

I have no desire to hoard movies or TV shows on a hard drive somewhere. I watch a film and then go on to do something else. Not everyone is a collector or dedicated to saving every downloaded bit to disk. I watch films for enjoyment, not an obsessive lifestyle choice.

Not every person is like you. I think Apple TV is doing the right thing here.

Well said.

plinkoman
Sep 3, 2010, 11:09 PM
I am the type who does like to own content, and be able to watch it an unlimited number of times, but given that the apple tv has always been so good at streaming, it has never seemed to me like it needed a massive hard drive of its own. I think I am more likely to buy one now than I was before, even if I never rent anything.

Ovenall
Sep 3, 2010, 11:12 PM
There's thread after thread about this and I don't get it. You can still stream content from a computer with it. It just doesn't have its own hard drive.

It's a $99 trinket used for entertainment. Don't buy it if you don't like it.

DanMacApple
Sep 3, 2010, 11:34 PM
It would have been nice if you can add an external harddrive to the apple tv, but I don't think it will be much of a problem streaming it.

bluespark
Sep 4, 2010, 12:08 AM
There's thread after thread about this and I don't get it. You can still stream content from a computer with it. It just doesn't have its own hard drive.

It's a $99 trinket used for entertainment. Don't buy it if you don't like it.

Correct, and this apparently purchased content. So if the streaming works well, then the OP should have no problem.

emaja
Sep 4, 2010, 12:58 AM
You know that no one is forcing you to buy one - right?

Paulyboy
Sep 4, 2010, 10:59 AM
My wife and I watch 0-2 movies per week, usually on a Sunday night. Apple TV is $99 and will stream my Netflix to my TV/surround system. And it has some other extras.

I have no desire to hoard movies or TV shows on a hard drive somewhere. I watch a film and then go on to do something else. Not everyone is a collector or dedicated to saving every downloaded bit to disk. I watch films for enjoyment, not an obsessive lifestyle choice.

Not every person is like you. I think Apple TV is doing the right thing here.

I couldn't agree more. I would have liked some sort of app store functionality but I have a feeling something like that may come later.

I remember years ago being mystified by a few of my friends that had amassed huge libraries of DVDs and liked to brag about them. However, I almost never recall them watching their DVDs more than once.

These days there's so much more to watch (and so much more to do in general) that there is even less practicality in hoarding huge video libraries, even if they take up less physical space because of using hard drives. I like to tinker so I've learned how to use Plex and ripped the small collection of DVDs I've mostly received as gifts. I've watched them all once and only once. This wasn't a real big surprise to me and I think a lot of people are the same way. Granted, I realize that some people do want to own and store most everything they watch and to each their own. But I think there's definitely a bigger market for the new Apple TV than some people think because of what I said above. There is definitely an appeal for some people to have a simple and relatively inexpensive way to rent TV shows and then be done with them.

If you still have cable (I do because of sports) or satellite then there's little point in getting an Apple TV right now but if you don't, and want a simple and inexpensive solution, I think the Apple TV is perfect for you.

-PN

jaw04005
Sep 4, 2010, 11:16 AM
Apple removed purchases from the new Apple TV because there is no dedicated storage for them.

Downloading purchased content on the Apple TV was never a great experience anyway.

In fact, the last HD movie I purchased directly on my Apple TV took forever to download — much longer than it would have in iTunes (probably due to the processor overhead and slow hard drive).

Then you would have to wait for it to sync back (which was again very slow). If you tried to do anything while it was syncing, it would stop because it couldn’t handle syncing and playing content at the same time (other than audio).

Again, not the best experience. Very complicated for an Apple device. Purchases aren’t gone. You can still purchase movies, music and TV shows on iTunes on your Mac/PC and practically every iDevice that has enough storage to complete the transaction.

ntrigue
Sep 4, 2010, 12:55 PM
You're only one opinion and certainly the minority. I have 73 movies in my Netflix 'Watch Instantly' cue and love the $99 price point, the size and the rental price reduction.

vastoholic
Sep 4, 2010, 01:11 PM
The only thing I miss about internal storage is the ability to travel. If I'm going somewhere for an extended period, I could take my AppleTV with me and plug it into a new TV to have my favorite movies or TV shows on it. Looking back, it would have been perfect in Iraq. We had a TV I could have hooked it up to. I will keep my old ATV specifically for this reason.

*bold edit*

ntrigue
Sep 4, 2010, 02:17 PM
The only thing I miss about internal storage is the ability to travel. If I'm going somewhere for an extended period, I could take my AppleTV with me and plug it into a new computer to have my favorite movies or TV shows on it. Looking back, it would have been perfect in Iraq. We had a TV I could have hooked it up to. I will keep my old ATV specifically for this reason.

Valid point. I'll keep my 40GB for those instances.

bobm
Sep 4, 2010, 09:16 PM
Problem is 'iDisk' probably wants the device to still cost 99 bucks. Otherwise he should have just purchased an apple tv and be done with it.

I think that the new apple tv hits the price point that will make it more of a success.

Disclaimer: I have two of the current apple tv's and they get used quite a bit.

Imsuperjp
Sep 4, 2010, 09:23 PM
In my opinion, the new apple tv is win. The old one did not sell well, so they had to change it up and make it more affordable. I never considered buying the old apple tv and now I have 3 on preorder. This new one fits my needs perfectly. I dont have to load media onto 3 seperate devices and now can stream it all from one source. They may lose customer that enjoyed the old apple tv, but I believe all the new customer that will buy the new one will outnumber.

cooldaddybeck
Sep 4, 2010, 10:07 PM
I'm finally going to buy an Apple TV device, now that they've simplified it and integrated Netflix. I'm getting tired of trying to watch Zardoz in its entirety on my iPhone.

My PS3 is my netflix link in the main room, so the new Apple TV is for the master bedroom for both access to rentals/library and Netflix.


:apple:

izimzis
Sep 4, 2010, 10:09 PM
i dont get why they dont allow buying. so you can buy it and then stream it every time you want...i also dont have to own something but giving this option to some people is very important IMO

suss2it
Sep 4, 2010, 10:24 PM
i dont get why they dont allow buying. so you can buy it and then stream it every time you want...i also dont have to own something but giving this option to some people is very important IMO
It's a stream only device with no hard drive, so where would they store it if they bought it?

ntrigue
Sep 5, 2010, 12:34 PM
It's a stream only device with no hard drive, so where would they store it if they bought it?

^This

ipedro
Sep 5, 2010, 02:36 PM
i dont get why they dont allow buying. so you can buy it and then stream it every time you want...i also dont have to own something but giving this option to some people is very important IMO

You can still buy. Go to iTunes and buy TV shows and movies. You'll do this at your computer where you would inevitably have to organize your content because of hardware restrictions.

Apple could have added a 1TB HDD to tv but the price would be at least $299, not $99 and no amount of space would be enough because it'll get full and regular users don't want to have to manage hard drive space.

Rentals were the right way to go.

Ovenall
Sep 5, 2010, 02:47 PM
You can still buy. Go to iTunes and buy TV shows and movies. You'll do this at your computer where you would inevitably have to organize your content because of hardware restrictions.

Apple could have added a 1TB HDD to tv but the price would be at least $299, not $99 and no amount of space would be enough because it'll get full and regular users don't want to have to manage hard drive space.

Rentals were the right way to go.

Exactly. The kind of person who wants to save everything (or even some things) they download will fill any size drive that comes with the unit. And people like me who don't save stuff will jump at a low price point.

I can't even think of a good reason to argue having it any other way. You can STILL save whatever you want and stream it using this device, yet people are complaining about it.

I just hope it actually works as advertised.

wirelessmacuser
Sep 5, 2010, 02:53 PM
Of course there are always naysayers, but there are also plenty of people lining up at the doors to get their hands on the product, so they must be doing something right.

Yes they are "doing something right".

Apple is doing what it does best, even better than products.

They are world class marketing professionals. An art they have fine tuned better than anyone else in recent times.

They sell stuff, tons of stuff, no matter what the price, performance or usefulness.

They are the masters of persuasion.

They convince people they need certain things with the Apple logo... and it sells.

jjhny
Sep 5, 2010, 03:27 PM
There's thread after thread about this and I don't get it. You can still stream content from a computer with it. It just doesn't have its own hard drive.

It's a $99 trinket used for entertainment. Don't buy it if you don't like it.

I agree you can do that - but what I just realized the other day were the codec limitations. What about things in .mkv format, or some flavors of .avi, etc.

You can only stream stuff that is in Apple's limited arena of codecs.

This AppleTV is like an Airport Express with HDMI and an interface - only it's crippled by being unable to use many codecs that exist now.

If someone hacks it so that I can play anything through it then I might be interested. I have to look and see if the someone has extended (hacked) the itunes app to play (pass through) the mkv codec - then I may buy it!

ipedro
Sep 5, 2010, 03:49 PM
What I don't get is why people are complaining so much. You obviously don't like the product. Don't buy it.

People are complaining as if they had a credit card on file that was going to be charged regardless if they liked the product or not.

Apple makes products that work within their ecosystem of products. If you want to use different codecs, record live programming with a DVR, connect hard drives to your TV... go right ahead. There are other products in the market.

If this doesn't do what you want it to do, then move right along. Apple products aren't for you.

keviha
Sep 5, 2010, 04:16 PM
What I don't get is why people are complaining so much. You obviously don't like the product. Don't buy it.

People are complaining as if they had a credit card on file that was going to be charged regardless if they liked the product or not.

Apple makes products that work within their ecosystem of products. If you want to use different codecs, record live programming with a DVR, connect hard drives to your TV... go right ahead. There are other products in the market.

If this doesn't do what you want it to do, then move right along. Apple products aren't for you.

I find it funny when I read replies that basically say "if you're not for it - don't rock the boat with your negative comments and move on".

From what I can tell most of the comments where they may be perceived as complaining are from people who own the current ATV and after a lot of time anticipating a new ATV are expressing their concern, displeasure, whatever you want to call it. There has been a lot of build up over the past 1-2 years as to whether ATV would continue and if so, what it might/could morph into, so it's only natural there are going to be people who are excited and those that are critical based largely on expectations and how they want to use the product. ATV has always been a polarizing product - it should surprise no one that the new version has illicit ed comments on both sides.

To just disregard and try to shut down many of these posts from people as just complaining (or in other words - how dare you point out merit based concerns with ATV2) doesn't do anything for moving deep discussions forward.

Hey, I'm in the camp that ATV2 (in it's current form) is not right for me. Maybe as time goes on (and additional functionality is achieved) that will change, but in the meantime I'll continue to enjoy the two ATV1's that I currently have. I did put an order in for an ATV2 for my mother as I think ATV2 will be a good fit for how she'll consume media.

I look forward to more analysis, opinions, etc. from folks on both sides of the fence. Cheers.

Ovenall
Sep 5, 2010, 05:36 PM
Oh come on. No one's trying to "shut down" posts. People are welcome to complain. It's what the internet is for!

The simple point is that consumers like me who don't give a rat's ass about streaming various codecs or formats -- don't give a rat's ass about it. This is the segment of the market Apple is targeting. Basic users who are not concerned about such things.

I am not dumb, I'm simply uninterested in keeping a library of films and TV shows, and I have no interest in learning a bunch of info about various file formats. I just don't care. I don't care about Major League Baseball either. And I'll never learn how to fly a plane.

And I'll never know the difference between a bunch of different file formats and how to stream them to my television. I just want to watch a movie every once in a while. And stream my Netflix account to my TV. And maybe, maybe something more somewhere down the line. That's who Apple is marketing to. Nothing can be all things to all people.

emaja
Sep 5, 2010, 05:47 PM
...I'll never know the difference between a bunch of different file formats and how to stream them to my television. I just want to watch a movie every once in a while. And stream my Netflix account to my TV. And maybe, maybe something more somewhere down the line. That's who Apple is marketing to. Nothing can be all things to all people.

This ^

It is a simple business proposition. Apple makes a product. If you want it because it does what you want it to do - you will buy it. If not - then you will not.

You also have to remember that people on MR are not your typical users. Most of us here know about these different codecs and the shortcomings of the new ATV, but most don't because it just doesn't matter to them. All that matters to most people is that it is simple and that it works.

Unfortunately there are people on MR that will buy anything that has the Apple logo on it and claim that it is perfect and even cures cancer. There are also those who will complain about whatever hardware updates Apple does since they are not enough of an update.

Why does it have to be one or the other. All that matters is that it works FOR YOU. If not, skip it.

Ovenall
Sep 5, 2010, 05:56 PM
To put it another way, I am a long time (12 years) Mac user who is in the advertising/design business. I do a lot of graphic design type work, but I've also done TV and video production. I know how to use the basics of Handbrake.

I was aware of a product called Apple TV. I had only a sketchy idea of what it did and I never looked into it. Then they announced the new Apple TV. All I heard was "stream Netflix, $99, Apple" and I was sold. The fact that I can rent additional stuff through Apple and that I can stream Youtube, my photos, etc., is just icing on the cake. I pre-ordered which is something I never do.

This is what Apple is doing. Marketing to guys like me, and people who have even less knowledge about tech than I do. It's a simple marketing decision, and I think it's the right move on their part for sales. Ultimately, Apple is trying to make money.

Doc750
Sep 5, 2010, 06:00 PM
"If you don't want an apple tv, don't buy it ... If you bought an apple tv, and don't like it, bring it back ... bring it back."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4

gkarris
Sep 5, 2010, 06:29 PM
I wish they'd put Purchases back in - I purchased all the shows/movies/music with mine and it threw it all back onto my server.

That would be just a software update on the new one - easy "fix"....

My main problem is my HT is set up for Component (from my old projector). The new AppleTV has no Componet. Interesting, my XB360, PS3 still do...don't feel like doing more wiring work.

Cancelled my order for a new one. It may be easier to buy an old AppleTV on closeout (my old one burned out months ago).

emaja
Sep 5, 2010, 06:36 PM
My main problem is my HT is set up for Component (from my old projector). The new AppleTV has no Componet. Interesting, my XB360, PS3 still do...don't feel like doing more wiring work.

I know that it will not be until the end of the year, but the "analog sunset" is coming and those component connections along with all other analog connections are no longer going to be built into new HT components.

It does not affect you right now, but just thought I'd pass that along.

VTMac
Sep 5, 2010, 07:37 PM
I wish they'd put Purchases back in - I purchased all the shows/movies/music with mine and it threw it all back onto my server.

That would be just a software update on the new one - easy "fix"....



Sorry to tell you it's not a software fix. The ATV2 likely doesn't have enough onboard storage to hold the entire movie while you stream it back to your computer. That would be a hardware issue.

NightStorm
Sep 5, 2010, 07:52 PM
Sorry to tell you it's not a software fix. The ATV2 likely doesn't have enough onboard storage to hold the entire movie while you stream it back to your computer. That would be a hardware issue.

I think they could come up with a method to have the download either stream directly to a designated computer, or simply add it to your download queue on your iTunes account.

lilo777
Sep 5, 2010, 08:34 PM
My wife and I watch 0-2 movies per week, usually on a Sunday night. Apple TV is $99 and will stream my Netflix to my TV/surround system. And it has some other extras.

I have no desire to hoard movies or TV shows on a hard drive somewhere. I watch a film and then go on to do something else. Not everyone is a collector or dedicated to saving every downloaded bit to disk. I watch films for enjoyment, not an obsessive lifestyle choice.

Not every person is like you. I think Apple TV is doing the right thing here.

I agree for the most part but there are two caveats. Firstly, there are too many devices (including TV sets) that already allow people to stream the movies. It makes perfect sense to have this functionality elsewhere rather than in dedicated box. You have to have DVD player anyways (and some families have to have game consoles). Those can do just everything ATV can. The second point is that content providers do not like vertically integrated companies (of which only one left really and it's Apple). So you are much more likely to rent the same movie for less some place else (Amazon VOD being a primary candidate).

Seydlitz
Sep 6, 2010, 01:09 AM
I am not dumb, I'm simply uninterested in keeping a library of films and TV shows, and I have no interest in learning a bunch of info about various file formats.

Blinkered much?

1. Codec issues are gone for a few years nowadays. Install XBMC/(works on Linux, Windows, OSX) and you have a free mediacenter. You will not have to worry about a fileformat. Even better, the interface is more streamlined than *gasp* finder.
2.Cheap, 1080P devices like the WD-TV can play everything from a unified command line. Even simpler than XBMC. This and many other products are hardly new on the market. People will compare, even if the features are completely different.
3. The notion "computers are hard" is also a tired notion. most people by now know how to look for a file and double click it (note* with above software even that is simplified to the extreme). really... most people need to input *some* data now and again on their work. Giving most of that is Office based (quite alike on OSX or Windows) people even know some files need different programs (Excel/word).

People aren't blithering idiots. Nor is clicking a file arcane or time consuming anymore. We do not live in the OS9-Win32 days...

Now why people are rightly dissapointed:

- The ATV2, succesor of the ATV1, is a completely different device, with in many ways less possibilities.
- Also, technically it is behind the times. 1080p is standard on most sold tv's and on most sold media devices. Want to bet that most people who are in the market for these devices are LCD/Plasma owners? So why does a lowly WD-TV offer it and an ATV2 not? That is what a consumer will think.

Oh and please don't come with "consumers dont care about 1080P". Because "one extra core, A digital fuel injection, Extra Microflitz blades for better shaving and 1080P" are exactly what the consumer is running after.

It's the techno geeks that go: Hmm the bitrate of 720P is already the bottleneck *insert dificult calculation*. This means they have to use compression *insert bitrate discussion*.

Consumers look at the tags, not at the tech.



So yes, the ATV2 is an interesting device. But it has some head scratching choices (resolution) and some annoying (if understandable) feature shift.

rotarypower101
Sep 6, 2010, 01:17 AM
Apple removed purchases from the new Apple TV because there is no dedicated storage for them.

Downloading purchased content on the Apple TV was never a great experience anyway.

In fact, the last HD movie I purchased directly on my Apple TV took forever to download — much longer than it would have in iTunes (probably due to the processor overhead and slow hard drive).

Then you would have to wait for it to sync back (which was again very slow). If you tried to do anything while it was syncing, it would stop because it couldn’t handle syncing and playing content at the same time (other than audio).

Again, not the best experience. Very complicated for an Apple device. Purchases aren’t gone. You can still purchase movies, music and TV shows on iTunes on your Mac/PC and practically every iDevice that has enough storage to complete the transaction.

%100 correct, but I feel apple is a clever enough company to have implemented a better solution than just removing the ability to buy content from the TV. Thats just rolling over IMO

Why not build a system by which it gave the user the option to purchase the selection, and stream the content immediately, while queuing the appropriate download to the users iTunes library when it is advantageous to download.

I know easier said than done, but they did make a conscious decision to delete any kind of storage that could be used in this way, and I am pretty sure most users would have wanted a choice, and that way they would have had what design elements they wanted and the choice for their paying customers.


I feel a cliche coming....everybody wins!

Chwisch87
Sep 6, 2010, 01:34 AM
One, most backlogs of TV shows are going to be on netflix usually within a year after they come out and even more so today on instant play. The plane fact of the matter is this is really a device for watching a movie you never intent on owning, streaming music/video from your computer and watching netflix. If there is something i wish to watch over and over again or having in my blu-ray library I am simply going to just buy it.

Eventually this device will also be opened up to "paid services" like hulu plus or something similar. Either that or it won't be long until you can just streaming it from your iOS device to AppleTV either.

bergmef
Sep 6, 2010, 05:10 AM
Exactly. The kind of person who wants to save everything (or even some things) they download will fill any size drive that comes with the unit. And people like me who don't save stuff will jump at a low price point.

I can't even think of a good reason to argue having it any other way. You can STILL save whatever you want and stream it using this device, yet people are complaining about it.

I just hope it actually works as advertised.

I just like to have my photos and music on it so I don't have to have the computer running to a slideshow. Personal preference. I'm not a collector just because I would like disk space for that.

ceraz
Sep 6, 2010, 06:17 AM
Well I am sadly joining those that are disappointed.

The new ATV is a very different product. ATV started out by synchronising my content on my TV so I didn't have to leave the Mac on. Now Apple's focus is really on me renting *their* content to be streamed to my TV (or leave my Mac on for streaming).

I love my patched ATV with 250GB disk, I even bring it on vacation with me to plug into the local TV/HIFI so I can play *my* music and movies.

I was impatiently waiting on full 1080p support to view *my* Home videos via the ATV over Giga Ethernet. The new tech specs are 10 years old.

This hasn't happened .... hello Western Digital for 109USD.

Ovenall
Sep 6, 2010, 11:42 AM
Seydlitz- that's truly an epic "missing my point" moment.

You talk about "consumers" not caring/caring about 1080. I am a consumer who has purchased an ATV. I do not care about 720 vs. 1080. I really don't. Really. I'm not lying or trying to be cute. I just don't care. I've seen BluRay, and I've seen other HD. I can notice a slight difference, more or less depending on the film. But I really, really don't care. I bought the ATV because I want to plug it in and watch movies on my TV and it costs $99. 15 feet away in my non-audiophile patched together living room -- I don't care that much. I like watching a movie once in a while and it doesn't go past that.

I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions for "free" media centers, but again, I am not concerned about this. $99. Apple. Netflix.

newagemac
Sep 6, 2010, 12:54 PM
I have a strong feeling one of the reasons Apple decided to drop the hard drive and focus on streaming (other than the low price and ease of use) is because of that huge new datacenter and rumored plans to store and stream your itunes library over the internet.

With that, you possibly won't even need a computer or a hard drive. The new Apple TV already offers mobileme integration for photos.

I really do think affordable thin client hardware with an internet connection and able to stream is the wave of the future when it comes to entertainment and media. The hardware is easy. The main focus should be on the UI and content. The new Apple TV should be positioned well for this.

MowingDevil
Sep 6, 2010, 02:25 PM
Has anyone stopped to consider perhaps they'll bring the purchase option back to the TV once the cloud based iTunes is ready?

PIX
Sep 6, 2010, 06:17 PM
iDisk if you dislike the Apple TV2 so much why don't you "make a stand" and don't buy it? There is no reason to complain when there are so many video alternatives out there like Amazon Unbox, Windows Media Center and WD HD Media Player to name a few...

In my opinion, Apple has crippled the device and rendered it less usful... it's because there current Consumers aren't making a stand saying NO we want a Apple Tv with this and that and this.

ntrigue
Sep 6, 2010, 10:39 PM
I agree you can do that - but what I just realized the other day were the codec limitations. What about things in .mkv format, or some flavors of .avi, etc.

You can only stream stuff that is in Apple's limited arena of codecs.

This AppleTV is like an Airport Express with HDMI and an interface - only it's crippled by being unable to use many codecs that exist now.

If someone hacks it so that I can play anything through it then I might be interested. I have to look and see if the someone has extended (hacked) the itunes app to play (pass through) the mkv codec - then I may buy it!

Handbrake

Seydlitz
Sep 7, 2010, 12:52 AM
Seydlitz- that's truly an epic "missing my point" moment.

No sorry, not epic at all. Cold hard facts. Consumers look at the tag and assume 1080P>720P. You have done the research and know that 720P on a 42" plasma takes a viewing distance of 2.5-3 meter. But the normal consumer doesn't know this.


You talk about "consumers" not caring/caring about 1080. I am a consumer who has purchased an ATV. I do not care about 720 vs. 1080. I really don't. Really. I'm not lying or trying to be cute. I just don't care. I've seen BluRay, and I've seen other HD. I can notice a slight difference, more or less depending on the film. But I really, really don't care.

Anecdotal. Sorry, commerce works with buzz words and they work quite effectively. You are a geek who has done his research. The average Joe just wants 1080P (TrueHD!). He goes to a costco and the salesman will confirm this by spewing a techno nonsense blabber. The consumer goes home happily with a big 1080P LCD.


I bought the ATV because I want to plug it in and watch movies on my TV and it costs $99. 15 feet away in my non-audiophile patched together living room -- I don't care that much. I like watching a movie once in a while and it doesn't go past that.

I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions for "free" media centers, but again, I am not concerned about this. $99. Apple. Netflix.

Good for you. But that doesn't do anything on either of my and other good points. But you quite strongly have the opinion that we should not complain.

See the problem? You are happy, so others shouldn't complain even though they can point out where their problems lie. Even worse, your opinion becomes "the consumers opinion" which in itself is quite tricky.. and in this case has been proven to be wrong. The 1080P tag works quite well in sales. It's completely pointless to hold the position that this won't matter for the decision of the average consumer.

chrono1081
Sep 7, 2010, 01:46 AM
It's rather ridiculous for critics to say Apple is trying to control the consumers' abilities when all they are doing is modifying a product to what they deem appropriate. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

+ 329482093849823840283409823

Everyone thinks there is a conspiracy behind things.

I myself welcome the fact that I can store all my stuff on a computer where I have externals I can expand my movie collection on to rather than be limited to what size hd is in the apple TV.

This is one of the reasons the Atv is cheaper. I'm actually considering it now.

Ovenall
Sep 7, 2010, 09:15 AM
Seydlitz- see post #28. Complain away!

My point is you're complaining about the wrong thing. ATV is being marketed as a simple, cheap plug-and-play device. That's it. Pointing out various features it's "missing" to you is beside the point. It doesn't have those "missing" features on purpose.

Might as well complain that Apple computers don't ship with Windows installed. After all, far more software and games that are attractive to the average consumer would be available to the average consumer if those MacBooks were running Windows, right?

carlgo
Sep 7, 2010, 10:51 AM
Well, Uncle Jobs has a vision and that is to have small and thin devices playing media, and ultimately software programs, distributed through Apple.

The idea is to have this done as easily and intuitively as possible, because each degree of difficulty is an obstacle to success.

ATV is only a hobby because that is all the bandwidth and reception infrastructure allows now.

rnauman821
Sep 7, 2010, 11:37 AM
I am probably the minority but I think Apple finally got it RIGHT with the AppleTV. I could care less how big the internal drive is, it will not support my library which is over 2TB now. So having a HD on the AppleTV is pretty much useless since I can only have a fraction of my library on it, and even so then its duplicated across multiple devices which is something I do not want. Streaming everything from my Mac Pro is fine as its on 24/7 as I work from home, so streaming for me personally is a win/win. I get ALL my library at once, streamed over 100bt. Yes you could stream with last AppleTV, but shows were too expensive and I was never interested in buying TV Shows as I only watch them once. However with this model I can rent EVERYTHING for $1, watch it be done and move on. To each their own, but I really think Apple did a great job on this product...I can finally cancel Cable and have my Tivo HD for OTA shows and AppleTV for the rest...and I will save a ton of money by saving $80 a month that I would have spent on cable.

... Hate to burst your bubble but unless your media is .mp4 or an apple supported format, you will be **** out of luck when it comes to streaming media.

That's why most people are marking it off as an underwhelming unit from apple.

GamecockMac
Sep 7, 2010, 02:36 PM
I agree for the most part but there are two caveats. Firstly, there are too many devices (including TV sets) that already allow people to stream the movies. It makes perfect sense to have this functionality elsewhere rather than in dedicated box. You have to have DVD player anyways (and some families have to have game consoles). Those can do just everything ATV can. The second point is that content providers do not like vertically integrated companies (of which only one left really and it's Apple). So you are much more likely to rent the same movie for less some place else (Amazon VOD being a primary candidate).

There is not a single fact-based statement in that entire rant. As usual, it's made up of nothing but the myopic opinions of a dedicated Apple hater.

harcosparky
Sep 7, 2010, 03:40 PM
My wife and I watch 0-2 movies per week, usually on a Sunday night. Apple TV is $99 and will stream my Netflix to my TV/surround system. And it has some other extras.

I have no desire to hoard movies or TV shows on a hard drive somewhere. I watch a film and then go on to do something else. Not everyone is a collector or dedicated to saving every downloaded bit to disk. I watch films for enjoyment, not an obsessive lifestyle choice.

Not every person is like you. I think Apple TV is doing the right thing here.

I know I am in the minority, but I travel a lot and my iTunes library stays at home. One of the convenience of the original :apple:TV was that before leaving I could load up the HD with videos and TV shows to watch while in hotels on the road.

With the new on, maybe not so much.

Will I buy one of the new ones? Perhaps but my old one will be kept as well. May even buy another old one as well.

ecschwarz
Sep 7, 2010, 03:44 PM
I know I am in the minority, but I travel a lot and my iTunes library stays at home. One of the convenience of the original :apple:TV was that before leaving I could load up the HD with videos and TV shows to watch while in hotels on the road.

That is a good idea. I think uses like that are really the only reason to complain about the new Apple TV.

As for everyone else, I intend on buying one, but not renting things on it. If I were to purchase something, I think the intent is that you do it on the computer, keep it there, and stream it when you want it. The hard drives on previous Apple TV versions have been puny, especially with HD content, so it only makes sense that your computer be a "server" for content, along with things like Netflix and the iTunes Store's rentals.

Icculus
Sep 7, 2010, 03:57 PM
... Hate to burst your bubble but unless your media is .mp4 or an apple supported format, you will be **** out of luck when it comes to streaming media.

That's why most people are marking it off as an underwhelming unit from apple.

Well ALL of my media is in mp4. When I started using iTunes as my main source for music/media I made sure to rip it all into MP4. So every season of Seinfeld, Simpsons, Family Guy, 100 Movies, 500 Concerts, etc. will all stream to the AppleTV. No worries here.

RollTide1017
Sep 7, 2010, 03:57 PM
Amazon has drop the prices of TV shows from Fox and ABC to $.99 just like Apple. Difference is that those prices are to purchase shows, not just rent, from Amazon. Will Apple follow suit with purchase prices?

Seydlitz
Sep 8, 2010, 01:59 AM
Seydlitz- see post #28. Complain away!

rather disingenious considering the earlier posts (including you) with the general gag line: "if you don't like it don't buy it"

I and many won't buy it.. that doesn't mean we still have the complaints.


My point is you're complaining about the wrong thing. ATV is being marketed as a simple, cheap plug-and-play device. That's it. Pointing out various features it's "missing" to you is beside the point. It doesn't have those "missing" features on purpose.

I'm sorry but first off, consumers are rarely as helpless as you make them out. Secondly, devices are hardly so complicated as you claim. And thirdly, most importantly, things like 1080P are mainstream and are major selling points. Walk into any tv store and it will be imprinted in you. it obviously works as even lowly 32" tv's are being sold in droves with 1080P, while in that case you need to be about 1.5 meter away to see it (barely).

Might as well complain that Apple computers don't ship with Windows installed. After all, far more software and games that are attractive to the average consumer would be available to the average consumer if those MacBooks were running Windows, right?

Apple's and pears :0

The comparison would be if OS10.7 takes out media capabilities "because you can use an iPod or ATV for it". Keep in mind that the missing features are part of ATV1. I do not need to buy a windows machine, right now any mac, even the lowly Appletv, can do these media tasks.

And quite frankly, the netflix rave is nice, but keep in mind that a PS3, WII or XBOX can do the same thing. And the XBOX/PS3 have quite extensive other mediaplayer features.

And trust me, these are mainstream items that can be used by a lot of people. They are quite easy to use ;P

About Price: A console is just a tad more expensive and has added game and media features. And that is without just talking about current market-penetration.

To add insult to injury. My cable provider offers a HD online video rental service for at least three years for comparable prices. The settop box is included in the subscription.

Ovenall, this is why I have a hard time being enthusiastic about the ATV. It works if:

1. I need to live in the USA to fully use it
2. I do not have a PS3/XBOX
3. I need to stream my own media through a second machine, which is quite a lot more complicated than just plug and play. (Yes, you need to create a server, where is the ease of use again?)
4. Or I don't have any own media to play
5. Don't need cable.
6. I don't have cable provider who offers similar features.
7. I need to be so tech-savvy to understand that 1080P isn't neccesary.

I'm sure it will sell, but I don't see it becoming a huge success. Whereas other Apple items add features or convenience, this item seems to miss out. Even the convenience is questionable (more clicks needed than before) considering legacy devices have been around for a while now with decent UI's. We aren't talking a Windows-OSX jump.

daver11
Sep 8, 2010, 02:17 AM
So let me get this straight. If I want to buy a movie with my current AppleTV I can do so from the comfort of my living room couch, browsing the catalog on on my THX Certified 52" Plasma, watching the trailers with my family, as we select a movie.

With the new AppleTV, I now get to get up off my fat butt and go into the home office, turn on my computer and use iTunes to buy the movie instead. The whole family can follow me in there, and we can all huddle around the 24" LCD and look at little QuickTime clips to help us choose. After we buy one, we can "stream" it to the new AppleTV! That's WAY better! Who woulnd't want that! :confused:

And please don't say that if I don't like it I don't have to buy it. Everyone always says that like it means you can't ever criticize anything! I love Apple, I love my AppleTV, but I won't be buying the new one. Renting movies is fine, but I like to buy, too.

Larpy
Sep 8, 2010, 03:49 AM
So let me get this straight. If I want to buy a movie with my current AppleTV I can do so from the comfort of my living room couch, browsing the catalog on on my THX Certified 52" Plasma, watching the trailers with my family, as we select a movie.

With the new AppleTV, I now get to get up off my fat butt and go into the home office, turn on my computer and use iTunes to buy the movie instead. The whole family can follow me in there, and we can all huddle around the 24" LCD and look at little QuickTime clips to help us choose. After we buy one, we can "stream" it to the new AppleTV! That's WAY better! Who woulnd't want that! :confused:

And please don't say that if I don't like it I don't have to buy it. Everyone always says that like it means you can't ever criticize anything! I love Apple, I love my AppleTV, but I won't be buying the new one. Renting movies is fine, but I like to buy, too.


100% agree!!

and since when are people not allowed to complain?? is this fanboy.com?

Another point that I would like to raise is that while "cloud" based products may be the way of the future in the US/Canada and most of Europe while you are in your county where you have internet access, how does this would when you are traveling?? also, what advantages are there for people that don't live in the US? In a lot of ways the new :apple:TV is a step back especially for those that don't have access to netflix

newagemac
Sep 8, 2010, 04:53 AM
I know I am in the minority, but I travel a lot and my iTunes library stays at home. One of the convenience of the original :apple:TV was that before leaving I could load up the HD with videos and TV shows to watch while in hotels on the road.

With the new on, maybe not so much.

Will I buy one of the new ones? Perhaps but my old one will be kept as well. May even buy another old one as well.

That particular use case is probably better served by an iPad.

newagemac
Sep 8, 2010, 05:30 AM
So let me get this straight. If I want to buy a movie with my current AppleTV I can do so from the comfort of my living room couch, browsing the catalog on on my THX Certified 52" Plasma, watching the trailers with my family, as we select a movie.

With the new AppleTV, I now get to get up off my fat butt and go into the home office, turn on my computer and use iTunes to buy the movie instead. The whole family can follow me in there, and we can all huddle around the 24" LCD and look at little QuickTime clips to help us choose. After we buy one, we can "stream" it to the new AppleTV! That's WAY better! Who woulnd't want that! :confused:

And please don't say that if I don't like it I don't have to buy it. Everyone always says that like it means you can't ever criticize anything! I love Apple, I love my AppleTV, but I won't be buying the new one. Renting movies is fine, but I like to buy, too.

No actually what you would do is watch the trailers on the new apple tv like you do now and then once you have decided, just whip out your ios device and buy the movie while your "fat butt" is still on the couch. Then just click the Airplay button on your iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad to pop the movie over to your new apple tv and the video is now playing on your hdtv in the living room just like that.

And what's even better than your current apple tv is if you all start getting sleepy you can take the iPad with you to the bedroom and finish watching it on the iPad in bed or even use Airplay to select the bedroom apple tv. It would be impossible to share and switch between screens and devices so fast and easily with the old syncing solution. This solution is much sweeter in my opinion.

harcosparky
Sep 8, 2010, 06:00 AM
I know I am in the minority, but I travel a lot and my iTunes library stays at home. One of the convenience of the original :apple:TV was that before leaving I could load up the HD with videos and TV shows to watch while in hotels on the road.

With the new on, maybe not so much.

Will I buy one of the new ones? Perhaps but my old one will be kept as well. May even buy another old one as well.

That particular use case is probably better served by an iPad.

Wrong, that particular use is better served by the :apple:TV.

Hell you could just have well said ......

That particular use case is probably better served by an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad.

And you'd still be wrong, but that's OK it's you opinion and you have the right to express it. Everyone has the right to be wrong! :lol: :D


My kids like the old :apple:TV, often times they go off to spends a weekend at a friends house. We load up the :apple:TV with the movies they want and off they go. By the way we do own two of the original units. One stays at home the second it the 'travel unit'.

Personally I think Apple missed the mark, but I know why they did. It was intentional and they are trying to push the market to a model they want and I know many will go where they are pushed, but I cannot do that.

Apple no longer wants you to own media, they want you to rent it. Want to watch it again? Rent it again.

Look at they TV Show Pricing.

Buy:
SD - $1.99
HD - $2.99

Rent:
HD -$0.99

For many shows renting it enough, but there are many shows that are worth keeping to watch many times. I am talking about the shows that actually teach you something, like Power Block TV where they are always showing projects on vehicles from complete tear down to full restoration. Lots of good info from those shows but they are not the only ones.

harcosparky
Sep 8, 2010, 06:36 AM
If someone hacks it so that I can play anything through it then I might be interested. I have to look and see if the someone has extended (hacked) the itunes app to play (pass through) the mkv codec - then I may buy it!

Yeah it's really difficult to convert media from one codec to another! :rolleyes:

I have yet to come across anything that I have not been able to play on my old :apple:TV.

Handbrake is a fine utility, doesn't cost any money and nothing needs to be HACKED!!!

Bufordt
Sep 8, 2010, 07:21 AM
I agree for the most part but there are two caveats. Firstly, there are too many devices (including TV sets) that already allow people to stream the movies. It makes perfect sense to have this functionality elsewhere rather than in dedicated box. You have to have DVD player anyways (and some families have to have game consoles). Those can do just everything ATV can. The second point is that content providers do not like vertically integrated companies (of which only one left really and it's Apple). So you are much more likely to rent the same movie for less some place else (Amazon VOD being a primary candidate).

My wife and I have not had a DVD player in our house for over 2 years. We have been using the old Apple Tv for over 2 years. So your statement about you have to have a DVD player anyways is just plan wrong.

soLoredd
Sep 8, 2010, 08:58 AM
What about those of us who only have Macbooks? Wife has MacBook, I have MacBook Pro, we don't have a desktop. So, if we want to watch a movie on the new AppleTV, we have to have a laptop open and running to stream. How is that in any way convenient?

As for the AirPlay option on an iOS device: yeah, I guess you could do that but then it requires me to sync iPhone with MBP first. Seems a bit redundant. In fact, it seems a lot redundant. I hope my original AppleTV doesn't kick the bucket on me, it's looking better and better.

soLoredd
Sep 8, 2010, 09:02 AM
I have a strong feeling one of the reasons Apple decided to drop the hard drive and focus on streaming (other than the low price and ease of use) is because of that huge new datacenter and rumored plans to store and stream your itunes library over the internet.

With that, you possibly won't even need a computer or a hard drive. The new Apple TV already offers mobileme integration for photos.

I really do think affordable thin client hardware with an internet connection and able to stream is the wave of the future when it comes to entertainment and media. The hardware is easy. The main focus should be on the UI and content. The new Apple TV should be positioned well for this.

I have a strong feeling this will NOT be the case. It makes too much sense and lately, Apple has gone against pretty much all common sense. Besides, do I really want all of my purchased media relying on a network connection (let alone an Apple-run network connection)?? Hell no.

Make it an option, not a requirement. And if Apple is, indeed, going this route, wait until all that stuff is sorted out before releasing the product.

newagemac
Sep 8, 2010, 10:01 AM
Wrong, that particular use is better served by the :apple:TV.

Hell you could just have well said ......

That particular use case is probably better served by an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad.

And you'd still be wrong, but that's OK it's you opinion and you have the right to express it. Everyone has the right to be wrong! :lol: :D


Actually you are quite wrong. The apple tv has never been marketed as a mobile device. The iPad has specifically been marketed as a mobile device you can load up with content and take it with you when you travel. It even offers it's own 3G connection so you have access to other content on the go.

Manufacturers even make cases that allow it to be attached to car seats so the kids can watch on the road. The iPad also comes with it's own screen and is able to play video resolutions the old apple tv can't too.

It's yours so use it any way you want. But just because you use the product in a non standard way does not mean it's the best device for that purpose.

newagemac
Sep 8, 2010, 10:08 AM
What about those of us who only have Macbooks? Wife has MacBook, I have MacBook Pro, we don't have a desktop. So, if we want to watch a movie on the new AppleTV, we have to have a laptop open and running to stream. How is that in any way convenient?

As for the AirPlay option on an iOS device: yeah, I guess you could do that but then it requires me to sync iPhone with MBP first. Seems a bit redundant. In fact, it seems a lot redundant. I hope my original AppleTV doesn't kick the bucket on me, it's looking better and better.

Airplay does not require a pc or Mac. You wouldn't have to sync unless you wanted to but that's no different than your current one.

As for having laptops on and open, you can keep them closed and they will wake on demand in snow leopard but I think it's a feature of apple routers. Not sure if other routers will work.

Aldaris
Sep 8, 2010, 10:16 AM
For me the new Apple TV is just okay, I'm not on any 'big brother' alerts though.

To me the ideal situation would be the New AppleTV with the ability to BUY as well as rent, i.e. if you buy/stream a given video, and to AppleTV and have the video added to your queue for download on your mac, or have the studios relize this is where media is going (i.e. cloud)...

Anyway for me I'll get one, but it'll be my mobile video/stream solution, and my two existing AppleTV's will be getting used just as much if not more than they are now.

***
By the way, I do have 'some' media synced but over 90% of my library is streamed from a G4 MDD

Mike Oxard
Sep 8, 2010, 10:58 AM
I've got a 40Gb appleTV that gets some use, but not loads, mostly for kids films. The UK looks like it's not going to get TV rentals anytime soon, which is a bit disappointing but not a real issue as I get the impression we pay a lot less for satellite/cable subscriptions than in the USA (and less adverts in the UK too?)

The reason I ordered the new appleTV is purely for the AirPlay functionality. The link between the iPhone 4's still and video cameras to a big screen TV without having to connect any cables up is very appealing.
If I 'm watching a movie on the bus, being able to switch the movie stream from my phone to the TV when I get home is also pretty cool.
The potential for streaming from iOS devices really shows future app store functionality to me, and the USB port on the new appleTV might mean third party ingenuity can add further functionality for us geeks!

I think the new appleTV is meant to be the missing link in the chain, so that the living room TV is easily connected to any other content you may have access to, and I'm sure Apple intend to be the main source of that content.

trip1ex
Sep 8, 2010, 11:39 AM
So let me get this straight. If I want to buy a movie with my current AppleTV I can do so from the comfort of my living room couch, browsing the catalog on on my THX Certified 52" Plasma, watching the trailers with my family, as we select a movie.

With the new AppleTV, I now get to get up off my fat butt and go into the home office, turn on my computer and use iTunes to buy the movie instead. The whole family can follow me in there, and we can all huddle around the 24" LCD and look at little QuickTime clips to help us choose. After we buy one, we can "stream" it to the new AppleTV! That's WAY better! Who woulnd't want that! :confused:

And please don't say that if I don't like it I don't have to buy it. Everyone always says that like it means you can't ever criticize anything! I love Apple, I love my AppleTV, but I won't be buying the new one. Renting movies is fine, but I like to buy, too.


It's ok. You don't have to buy every Apple product.

Apple went a new direction with the new ATV. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but I mean you have to recognize it's a new flavor. It's not strawberry. IT's chocolate now.

Jobs outlined their plans pretty darn clearly. And those plans were based on what Apple heard from its customers.

emptyCup
Sep 8, 2010, 12:19 PM
and since when are people not allowed to complain?? is this fanboy.com?

People can complain without being Apple haters and other people can disagree without being fanboys. Those who like the new aTV have explained why. Those, like the OP, who do not fall into 3 categories:

Don't like the new model and:

1. Own the old model- congratulations, you made the right choice.
2. Will now buy the old model: congratulations you saved $150
3. Had no intention of buying the old model and have even less intention of buying the new model: you have also made the right choice (for you) but you are invisible to Apple.

Apple cares about the people who vote with their money not their mouths. Apple may be wrong about the appeal of the new aTV but they won't know that until they see how it sells. They are sure to sell some to a new group of people who had no interest in the old model. Apple is betting that there are more people who want a simple, inexpensive experience than people who want to rip DVDs with Handbreak or hack the box to run Plex. They are probably right.

daver11
Sep 8, 2010, 09:20 PM
I think that main problem current owners have with the new AppleTV is that we were expecting an update. Instead, we got an essentially new product with the same name. The AppleTV we use and love has been discontinued. Oh, well... :(

daver11
Sep 8, 2010, 09:47 PM
NEWS FLASH: YouTube just announced that they are taking a cue from the new AppleTV and changing the way their service works. Instead of storing videos on their own servers, YouTube will henceforth only store links to the videos, which will be physically located on the computer of the original author. When you select a video to watch, it will stream it from the author's computer directly to yours! This requires that the author's computer be on at the time, but that is no big deal.

This may have the added benefit of shielding YouTube from all those nasty copyright lawsuits!

tripjammer
Sep 9, 2010, 04:54 PM
What they need to do is add about 16 gb of flash storage like in the 16 GB iphone 4 for storing apps.

now there might be some flash storage in the new ATV but we will need to have a ifixit teardown to make sure.