wait for notebook that fully supports tiger?

[swingerofbirch]

I have been saving up my pennies for the iBook deal from Amazon where I would get the iBook 1.2 ghz combo 12" for 899 with rebate, no shipping, no tax. I finally have enough money, and then I read on page 2 rumors that MWSF may bring new powerbooks.

I start thinking about the future of my notebook and how long it will last me. i remembered something about how tiger requires 64 mb of vram for all the special core image effects? can someone confirm that? and so i am thinking maybe i should keep saving and buy a new 12" pb instead....maybe amazon will even expand once again this rebate deal to the new powerbooks...

an ibook would be enough for my needs, but i can wait, and i can keep saving....how big of a deal will this core image be?

[caveman_uk]

As you know the current ibooks don't fully support core image. Tiger will still work on the current ibooks but the core image stuff will either be done in software (as opposed to on the graphics GPU) or won't be done at all. The current powerbooks will support core image. My guess is that Apple won't release Tiger until the whole range supports core image which means the ibooks/emacs need a revision - the new powerbooks are expected in the new year (probs the last G4 powerbooks).

Personally unless you need a mac now I'd wait until the new year and get a new 12" powerbook (unless the ibooks get updated at the same time - which I doubt as they've just been done)

[Godfather]

great. But I don't get the fact that my 128MB Vram in my PB 1.5 gighz isn't capable of running graphicle core stuff... That is just too much and far beyond my imagination....

I bet it will be supported by current powerbooks, not just on software but also hardware.

[hcuar]

great. But I don't get the fact that my 128MB Vram in my PB 1.5 gighz isn't capable of running graphicle core stuff... That is just too much and far beyond my imagination....

I bet it will be supported by current powerbooks, not just on software but also hardware.

Umm... no problems... Your 1.5 GHz will support it no problem. You have 128 MB VRam. Only 64 is required.

[dongmin]

I have been saving up my pennies for the iBook deal from Amazon where I would get the iBook 1.2 ghz combo 12" for 899 with rebate, no shipping, no tax. I finally have enough money, and then I read on page 2 rumors that MWSF may bring new powerbooks.How do you get an ibook for $899?

[Chryx]

Umm... no problems... Your 1.5 GHz will support it no problem. You have 128 MB VRam. Only 64 is required.

Actually, the amount of Vram is fairly irrelevant, the issue is the capabilities of the GPU itself, stuff that supports arb_fragment_shader is compatible (if it'd be labelled a 'DirectX 9' card when plugged into a windows machine, it's Coreimage capable)

So of the cards seen in macs, the following are coreimage capable

Geforce FX5200
Radeon 9600
Radeon 9700
Radeon X800 (are ATi actually shipping these yet.. no idea.)
Geforce 6800GT/Ultra

[budugu]

I just attended the apple tiger tech talk in boston yesterday. There is nothing to core image that you should be worried about. the only thing that would not run is the ripple effect in the widgets. Core Image is another jargon term they have introduced. It is nothing different. The quartz compositor used to use the graphics card for GUI and stuff now can do more "standard" image transforms. now instead of just the genie effect you have few more transforms. This has been apple way of substituting for lack of good CPUs so they started to transfer the load to the GPU. And it has lot of limitations. CoreImage will shift to CPU if the GPU does not have enough resources and they did not mention any further uses of Core Image other than that. Core Data is completely tangential to this problem. Apple tech likes to talk about their ability to do heavy lifting on the GPU but he had to conceede that there were lot of limitations. even though GPU can transfer at the rate of 35Gbps from its memory the graphics bandwidth(AGP) is arround 2Gbps. So all it can do is more efficiently work when the load is not going to choke the GPU. And in that case it falls back to the CPU and its RAM. Unless they prove the architecture is extremely useful one really need not bother themselves with the whole issue of Core Image compatibility. Tiger will run fine minus the ripple effect. And the graphics card they love talking about (nVidia 6800) is more pricier than getting a second CPU which is far more useful! Questions about framerates their answer was that we donot require framerates more than 60Hz, as we cannot see! Apple is just making a huge cry out of almost nothing new! The only advantage is that you have some good debugging tools and better "managed" classes.

[Chryx]

I just attended the apple tiger tech talk in boston yesterday. There is nothing to core image that you should be worried about.

Go read up on 'Quartz 2D Extreme'

[live4ever]

I just attended the apple tiger tech talk in boston yesterday. There is nothing to core image that you should be worried about. the only thing that would not run is the ripple effect in the widgets. Core Image is another jargon term they have introduced. It is nothing different. The quartz compositor used to use the graphics card for GUI and stuff now can do more "standard" image transforms. now instead of just the genie effect you have few more transforms. This has been apple way of substituting for lack of good CPUs so they started to transfer the load to the GPU. And it has lot of limitations. CoreImage will shift to CPU if the GPU does not have enough resources and they did not mention any further uses of Core Image other than that. Core Data is completely tangential to this problem. Apple tech likes to talk about their ability to do heavy lifting on the GPU but he had to conceede that there were lot of limitations. even though GPU can transfer at the rate of 35Gbps from its memory the graphics bandwidth(AGP) is arround 2Gbps.

What about CoreImage in QT/FCP/DVDSP and being able to do real-time video encoding (without a dual G5) on a G4 PB all within the supported gfx card.

This is what I was expecting in the major revision of QT that is supposed to be coming,

[budugu]

Go read up on 'Quartz 2D Extreme'

We have Quartz extreme in panther too... :p

[budugu]

What about CoreImage in QT/FCP/DVDSP and being able to do real-time video encoding (without a dual G5) on a G4 PB all within the supported gfx card.

This is what I was expecting in the major revision of QT that is supposed to be coming,

They had CoreVideo on the main slide but did not say any thing about it. As you say " supported gfx card". The definition of a supported Gfx card is that it can be programable (i forgot the long name that they use). The only card they talked about was 6800 ultra so unless your PB is comming with one forget about it. The revisions of OpenGL and QT they said will be on their own pace and will not be with major OS releases. On the brighter side support for h.264 is good news. CoreVideo from what ever interaction i had with the rep was that if you could use coreImage and do some video stuff!

Large number of people do general purpose programming on graphics cards including solutions for ODEs in Diffusion style problems; it just that apple is providing a basic api for it using coreImage (mostly because they have about 3 graphic cards that they have to worry about).

[Catfish_Man]

We have Quartz extreme in panther too... :p

Quite a different thing. That "2D" in the name wasn't a mistake.

<edit> Also, if you can, watch the "Graphics State of the Union" presentation from the ADC. You'll get quite a different picture than the pessimistic one you're painting. As for only the 6800 being supported... look at Apple's website. It lists the supported cards. </edit>

[quagmire]

So wait a second. I have a rev b 12" Powerbook. It has the 5200 but, only at 32 mb Vram. So because of the Vram requirement with me having the 5200 but, not enough Vram kills core image? Or will it be slower since it is 32?

[budugu]

Quite a different thing. That "2D" in the name wasn't a mistake.

<edit> Also, if you can, watch the "Graphics State of the Union" presentation from the ADC. You'll get quite a different picture than the pessimistic one you're painting. As for only the 6800 being supported... look at Apple's website. It lists the supported cards. </edit>

If i am not mistaken Quartz 2D became Quartz Extreme and as far as i can remember. If i am wrong i hope you can tell me the difference anyway. i thought Quartz was just a 2D compositor engine.

Supporting core image is different from being able to handle core image successfully! IF your GPU is going to choke fast then you have to fall back on CPU and you have more latency than you originally thought. There are a lot of cards that label themseleves as DirectX compliant but there are only a few cards (atleast ATI 9700 - qouting from the microsoft press book about DirectX) that can generate direct3D objects and run them properly.

I do know what cards are supported! one of the above posts mentions what are the requirements for Coreimage correctly .... just need to have "arb_..." function. What you can do with 6800 is vastly different (an order of magnitude) from what you can achieve with a 5200. All i was saying was that you donot have to get hyper about CoreImage, I am not saying that it is bad.

It is just that you world is not comming to an end if your machine does not support core image.

[solvs]

great. But I don't get the fact that my 128MB Vram in my PB 1.5 gighz isn't capable of running graphicle core stuff... That is just too much and far beyond my imagination...
Your 128MB video card is an ATI Radeon 9700. The mobile version, but still a 9700. It is compatible.

My Sister's boyfriend has Tiger running on his iBook (1GHz model). It works fine. He said the fancy stuff may not run as well as his PowerMac's, but most of it still runs. I have a feeling it will be like when Quartz Extreme was first announced, and they said you needed a 32MB video card, but the iBooks and earlier PowerBooks, came with only 16MB. They later revised it to 16 (I think 32 was still recommended, but if you had a Radeon, you were ok).

If you think you need Core Image (or Motion), you will probably not want an iBook anyway. If you can do without the whiz-bang stuff, most of the effects in Tiger (as well as all of Tiger itself) will work fine on a 1.2GHz iBook. Some things may be slower, but everything will work.

[budugu]

So wait a second. I have a rev b 12" Powerbook. It has the 5200 but, only at 32 mb Vram. So because of the Vram requirement with me having the 5200 but, not enough Vram kills core image? Or will it be slower since it is 32?

One of the users asked the same question but with a 17" PB. what he said was that pb older than roughly 2 years will not be supported as the model did not meet the requirements. i am not sure of exact models though.

when i meant supported, i meant on hardware (GPU) as opposed to Software mode (CPU).

[swingerofbirch]

How do you get an ibook for $899?

I found the deal at:

http://www.pbcentral.com

They have direct links to current, new iBooks and Powerbooks that Amazon is offering $100-$150 rebates on, no sales tax, no shipping.

The reason that I said to click on the link from that site is because Amazon sells Apple notebooks from different vendors and you have to get the exact one that Amazon is selling directly to get the rebate, and it's easier for me to go through pbcentral than rooting around on amazon.

Beware though if Amazon runs out of stock they will sell you one through Circuit City for example but it looks like it's coming from Amazon and won't be eligible for the rebate. Have to watch out for that.

But anyhow, pbcentral.com is great for finding the best prices, and that is the best I know of at the moment, beating apple's education prices as well.

[Chryx]

If i am not mistaken Quartz 2D became Quartz Extreme and as far as i can remember. If i am wrong i hope you can tell me the difference anyway. i thought Quartz was just a 2D compositor engine.


Quartz EXTREME is the compositing engine, Quartz 2D still exists, HAS to exist, to generate the things for QE to composite... in Tiger, Quartz 2D Extreme turns the generation of pretty much.. well, everything.. over to the pixel shader hardware on the gpu.. watch the afformentioned WWDC/Graphics state of the union clip (and if you get the one with Phil Schiller, it's the wrong one.)

text, lineart, everything, rendered in hardware, so not only does the cpu not have to do it, but the gpu can do it a hell of a lot faster in most cases.

[CaptainCaveMann]

So what happens to all of us who have hardware that does not support core image? Does that mean we cant use tiger? What about the little people with 32 gpu's!! haha

[budugu]

Quartz EXTREME is the compositing engine, Quartz 2D still exists, HAS to exist, to generate the things for QE to composite... in Tiger, Quartz 2D Extreme turns the generation of pretty much.. well, everything.. over to the pixel shader hardware on the gpu.. watch the afformentioned WWDC/Graphics state of the union clip (and if you get the one with Phil Schiller, it's the wrong one.)

text, lineart, everything, rendered in hardware, so not only does the cpu not have to do it, but the gpu can do it a hell of a lot faster in most cases.

From Quartz extreme itself the frame buffer was handled by GPU ... you can look at the documentation. I tried to do a basic search on the apple site but could not find "Quartz 2D Extreme" anywhere (may be my fault!). Unless there is a difference in the way Tiger uses OpenGL to draw! panther itself uses openGl quads + texture map to draw 2D. See there is no distiction between line art, text or any thing as they are all pixels in a frame buffer as it is a virtual copy of the screen that is going to be rendered after the compositor output.

[Chryx]

From Quartz extreme itself the frame buffer was handled by GPU ... you can look at the documentation. I tried to do a basic search on the apple site but could not find "Quartz 2D Extreme" anywhere (may be my fault!). Unless there is a difference in the way Tiger uses OpenGL to draw! panther itself uses openGl quads + texture map to draw 2D. See there is no distiction between line art, text or any thing as they are all pixels in a frame buffer as it is a virtual copy of the screen that is going to be rendered after the compositor output.

In Quartz Extreme, the compositing of elements to form the final frame is handled by the gpu, the creation of those elements has to be, largely, handled by the CPU

in Quartz 2D Extreme, the creation of those elements is offloaded to the GPU IN ADDITION to the compositing duties.

Watch : http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/jun/wwdc_2004_qt_sotu/wwdc_2004_gm_sotu_ref.mov

Notice the section about 30 minutes in where he demonstrates the difference between Quickdraw, Quartz 2D, and Quartz 2D Extreme

[Chryx]

So what happens to all of us who have hardware that does not support core image? Does that mean we cant use tiger? What about the little people with 32 gpu's!! haha

Coreimage will either rollback to Altivec code or you'll have something as functional as panther at least (plain Quartz 2D is a lot faster in Tiger as well)

[solvs]

So what happens to all of us who have hardware that does not support core image? Does that mean we cant use tiger? What about the little people with 32 gpu's!! haha
Yes, Apple will be releasing an amazing OS that can only be used by a handful of their customers with the very newest systems. Even if you buy an iBook or eMac right now, it will not be supported at all. And 10.5 will only run on Quad G6s with a $600 video card, to be released a year after the OS... "we hope", says Steve. Everyone else will be stuck with 10.3 forever.

That was sarcasm, BTW. As has been said, Core Image is only part of Tiger and will scale accordingly. Just like Quartz. Tiger will support almost everything Panther does, with only a few older G3s being cut out. Built in Firewire is preferred, but I'll bet you can get it to run on older hardware. Especially with XPostFacto. Considering it won't be released until sometime next year, I'm sure we're all worrying over nothing.

Well, except me. I'm not worried. As I said, Tiger seems to run fine on a GHz iBook.

[maya]

Well, except me. I'm not worried. As I said, Tiger seems to run fine on a GHz iBook.

Thats exactly what I have been saying don't worry about it. :)


Has anyone noticed that Core Image is looking at replacing Photoshop, I mean from the demos alone you basically add filter mask layers on the image or video. Adobe canned Premier since Apple has FCP, Adobe is also seeing a lot of heat for After Effects since Apple has Motion and now Photoshop with Apple Core Image built-in for still images and video.

If I were Adobe I would be sweating beads. :)

[ifjake]

nah adobe just needs to jump on it. Apple's given them some great tools to do some amazing things. it's up to them to decide whether they want to use them or not.

i just watched that video stream. some amazing stuff. i have a 1Gz powerbook Ti, and am planning on getting Tiger, however now i'm starting to think differently of what my machine will be able to do. at first i figured it would be gimmicky things like that ripple effect which i can do without that won't work, but now seeing quicktime scale window size while playing back live, you know, seeing things that are actually more useful, i'm a little worried that for me a lot of the new innovative features that are coming out of Tiger will be "scaled back" to simply nothing more than Panther with Spotlight and Dashboard tacked on for $120 bucks. i suppose it's the price to pay for trying to stay on the cutting edge of innovation. it's good that Apple's so forward thinking. i'll definitely want to try to stick with them, but it's really nothing more than me going "aw rats." hopefully more features will work on my machine than i am fearing won't. my machine is only going to get older. i guess we'll see what happens. it's definitely a good idea to wait on buying a machine until you can get one fully compatible with Tiger, no scaling down or leaving stuff out, because it appears that with Tiger Apple is laying some solid framework that probably won't see much change for a good while. longer than the year and a half i've owned my machine anyway.

[AppleMatt]

budugu,
Please please watch the clip that Chryx has mentioned so many times while trying to explain it to you. He's right. Please watch.

QuartzExtreme and Quartz 2D are different.

Cougar = Quartz + Quartz 2D
Jaguar = Quartz Extreme + Quartz 2D
Panther = Quartz Extreme + Quartz 2D
Tiger = Quartz Extreme + Quartz 2D Extreme

Here's a small comment about text rendering speedup;
http://www.macuarium.com/foro/index.php?showtopic=76321&pid=619558&st=200&#entry619558

AppleMatt

[Blue Velvet]

Has anyone noticed that Core Image is looking at replacing Photoshop, I mean from the demos alone you basically add filter mask layers on the image or video...


Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Like I'll be able to count on Core Image for my duotones or any prepress work.

Sure, ditch Photoshop -- what a complete waste of money it is...

[maya]

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Like I'll be able to count on Core Image for my duotones or any prepress work.

Sure, ditch Photoshop -- what a complete waste of money it is...

Apple sure seems to be moving in that direction, they already have print from and save to PDF. ColorSync, the pro video segment, audio segment (phasing in as with video in the past), and now images.

Sure PS will not be replaced now and Adobe could take advantage of GPU within PS however you have to think of all they non Core Image ready customers. Might speed up many filters if it is Core Image ready however it will take some time as it did with the G4 chip and Vector Engine.

Think of it this way iPhoto might be the consumer level Photo editing application and its compared to PS Elements some say its better. All Apple has to do is make a PRO application which is hardware enabled and it knocks the socks off PS down the road.

This seems to be that Apple is drawing up the path and will eventually make it reality. Don't be surprised to see a PS rival after Tiger is released.

By the way if you watch that stream they demonstrated a duo tone on the image.

Apple has always been know for its pre-press technology. Not hard to believe at all. Apple wants to own the entire MultiMedia Creation sector.

Windows = Business
Mac OS X = MultiMedia Creation

It's only time. :)

[Blue Velvet]

Apple sure seems to be moving in that direction, they already have print from and save to PDF. ColorSync, the pro video segment, audio segment (phasing in as with video in the past), and now images.

The PDFs that OSX creates are not generally suitable for press.


Sure PS will not be replaced now and Adobe could take advantage of GPU within PS however you have to think of all they non Core Image ready customers. Might speed up many filters if it is Core Image ready however it will take some time as it did with the G4 chip and Vector Engine.

Think of it this way iPhoto might be the consumer level Photo editing application and its compared to PS Elements some say its better. All Apple has to do is make a PRO application which is hardware enabled and it knocks the socks off PS down the road.

This seems to be that Apple is drawing up the path and will eventually make it reality. Don't be surprised to see a PS rival after Tiger is released.

I would be more than surprised because it's not going to happen.

If Apple made moves on this sort of pro app then a) they'd have problems selling it and b) Adobe would probably withdraw their entire Creative Suite for Mac. Remember how panicky Apple got when Quark dragged their heels over an OSX version? Thousands of design studios kept the faith and enabled Apple to stay in business during the lean times: they need those core apps and Apple needs those core apps to be available on that platform.


By the way if you watch that stream they demonstrated a duo tone on the image.

That's no real duotone, just an RGB duotone-effect.
Anybody who works in print design knows the difference.


Apple has always been know for its pre-press technology. Not hard to believe at all. Apple wants to own the entire MultiMedia Creation sector.

It was Adobe's creation of PostScript that really spawned the computer-based pre-press industry. If Microsoft had got into bed with Adobe at that stage, this forum probably wouldn't even exist...


Windows = Business
Mac OS X = MultiMedia Creation

It's only time. :)

I admire your optimism & imagination but it's more than just a little naive -- there's a bit more to Photoshop than just a bunch of filters...

[maya]

The PDFs that OSX creates are not generally suitable for press.

Off-course they differ one is for web applications and the is more robust you don't believe that Adobe is going to hand over Acrobat completely.


I would be more than surprised because it's not going to happen.

Lets see Motion is being compared to After Effects, and we are not even going to mention FCP to, it will happen maybe not how however its setting way for it.


If Apple made moves on this sort of pro app then a) they'd have problems selling it and b) Adobe would probably withdraw their entire Creative Suite for Mac. Remember how panicky Apple got when Quark dragged their heels over an OSX version? Thousands of design studios kept the faith and enabled Apple to stay in business during the lean times: they need those core apps and Apple needs those core apps to be available on that platform.

I am well aware of that issue, Apple was sweating as to when PS was not yet available on OS X too remember even Office.


That's no real duotone, just an RGB duotone-effect.
Anybody who works in print design knows the difference.

I realize that was RGB and not CMYK for print however I never stated that "Tiger" will replace PS all I stated was that it is setting the path for a future Photo/Image Pro application by Apple. They have iPhoto nothing is to say that they have no plans for a PS rival.



It was Adobe's creation of PostScript that really spawned the computer-based pre-press industry. If Microsoft had got into bed with Adobe at that stage, this forum probably wouldn't even exist...

That might be true Apple and Adobe go a long way back in due part to Desktop Publishing, I also remember that PS version 1 was given away for free on high end scanner this was around 1993-1994 at that time scanners were 2400+ USD. I also know about SuperPaint and many of the pallets that both PS version 1 and SuperPaint shared. (really showing my age now :o ).


I admire your optimism & imagination but it's more than just a little naive -- there's a bit more to Photoshop than just a bunch of filters...

Nothing is naive when it concerns Apple, no one could have predicted the iLife suite before that all was available was iTunes, the rest fell into place later on. No one saw Motion coming either however here we have it. What do you think is going to be next?

Apple has already stated that they want the MultiMedia Creation Market, no wonder they have excelled in the PRO and Consumer video, and as of recent Music (Garageband and Logic so forth). Image and Photo seem to be next on the list, 3D is already taken care of by Alias. :)

[Sun Baked]

Don't worry, waiting for a Notebook to support the currently announced features in Tiger will definitely give Apple some time to create some new features for Tiger that won't be fully supported by future versions of Tiger. ;)

They have you stuck in an endless loop of HW upgrades or stradling the fence waiting to buy a future machine. :cool:

Apple has been offloading a lot of features onto the GPU to speed up the GUI, and background task -- expect more nifty stuff to happen when and if all the CPUs go dual core, since that'll open up some stuff for better SMP support (which Tiger will really just be supporting well with the kernal upgrade.)

[maya]

Don't worry, waiting for a Notebook to support the currently announced features in Tiger will definitely give Apple some time to create some new features for Tiger that won't be fully supported by future versions of Tiger. ;)

They have you stuck in an endless loop of HW upgrades or stradling the fence waiting to buy a future machine. :cool:

Apple has been offloading a lot of features onto the GPU to speed up the GUI, and background task -- expect more nifty stuff to happen when and if all the CPUs go dual core, since that'll open up some stuff for better SMP support (which Tiger will really just be supporting well with the kernal upgrade.)

What I find funny is at the rate the GPU cards are execrating a 64MB GPU today and even a 128MB is outdated in the next 2-4 months. Considering 3D labs already has a 512MB GPU. :)

[madmaxmedia]

Ah, but the PowerBook Rev. B in question has a 32MB GeForce 5200. The 5200 is on the list of supported cards on the CoreImage page. The page doesn't say anything about needing 64 MB RAM.

I can only assume based on the info on Apple's page that the 5200 is supported, and the CoreImage will run on the GPU on the 12" Rev. B PowerBook...(?)

Does anyone know for sure? I'm thinking about a Rev. B 12" PowerBook myself, would be nice to confirm that it will run CoreImage.

One of the users asked the same question but with a 17" PB. what he said was that pb older than roughly 2 years will not be supported as the model did not meet the requirements. i am not sure of exact models though.

when i meant supported, i meant on hardware (GPU) as opposed to Software mode (CPU).

[CaptainCaveMann]

Ah, but the PowerBook Rev. B in question has a 32MB GeForce 5200. The 5200 is on the list of supported cards on the CoreImage page. The page doesn't say anything about needing 64 MB RAM.

I can only assume based on the info on Apple's page that the 5200 is supported, and the CoreImage will run on the GPU on the 12" Rev. B PowerBook...(?)Wow very good point.. I was under the impression core image was going to require at least 64

[CaptainCaveMann]

After seeing the Tiger demo its kind of annoying that all of apples current hardware wont support core image and core video. You would think that when a company dangles something in front of our faces they wouldnt screw us by continuing to sell hardware that will not support the os they are releasing

[solvs]

After seeing the Tiger demo its kind of annoying that all of apples current hardware wont support core image and core video. You would think that when a company dangles something in front of our faces they wouldnt screw us by continuing to sell hardware that will not support the os they are releasing
I would recommend reading the rest of this thread and others like it. As I've said, several times, it works fine on the last gen. iBook, and each beta it gets even better and faster. Please do not spread misinformation.

BTW... TIGER WILL WORK ON EVERYTHING APPLE CURRENTLY SELLS (and them some).

[maya]

I would recommend reading the rest of this thread and others like it. As I've said, several times, it works fine on the last gen. iBook, and each beta it gets even better and faster. Please do not spread misinformation.

BTW... TIGER WILL WORK ON EVERYTHING APPLE CURRENTLY SELLS (and them some).

Why don't people just get it that Core Image treats a supported GPU as a coprocessor. If you do not have a supporting GPU, the CPU will only do more work and harder big deal if you have a 800MHz G4 or newer it will run fine no need to worry. I didn't realize so many people here work with Final Cut Pro HD, Motion, etc....if they did buying a PMG5 with the best GPU on the market available for the Mac would be of no issue.

Even in the Apple Tech Demo its been stated that a dual 2.5GHz is more than capable of handling the workload without the need or use of Core Image and a high level GPU.

The confusion around here. :)

[AppleMatt]

This reminds me of the Quartz Extreme confusion and misinformation of a couple of years ago.

AppleMatt