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MacRumors
Sep 14, 2010, 08:33 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/09/14/093156-iphone_4_case.jpg

Influential ratings magazine Consumer Reports generated waves earlier this year by deciding that it couldn't recommend (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4-due-to-signal-issues/) the iPhone 4 to potential customers due to its antenna issues, despite the fact that the device garnered the top score (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/aside-from-signal-issue-consumer-reports-rates-iphone-4-highest-amongst-all-smartphones/) in the magazine's ratings of smartphones. With Apple's offer of free cases made at its July press conference about the issue, the magazine maintained its non-recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/), claiming that the temporary program was insufficient in addressing the problem.

Now that Apple has officially announced that it will be ending the free case program (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/10/apples-free-iphone-4-case-program-to-end-september-30th/) as of September 30th, Consumer Reports has once again noted its displeasure with Apple's treatment of the issue and declined to add the device to its list of recommended models.Our tests found the Bumper successfully mitigates the iPhone 4's reception issue, which was a weak point in the phone's otherwise-stellar performance in our tests. And we agree with Apple that not all iPhone 4 owners will experience reception difficulties with the device.

But putting the onus on any owners of a product to obtain a remedy to a design flaw is not acceptable to us. We therefore continue not to recommend the iPhone 4, and to call on Apple to provide a permanent fix for the phone's reception issues.Apple has indicated that any customers experiencing reception issues on their iPhone 4s should contact AppleCare to obtain free cases, opting to end the blanket program in favor of an on-request policy to address what the company believes is a very small number of customers affected by the issue.

Article Link: 'Consumer Reports' Holds Strong on iPhone 4 Non-Recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)



nvelker
Sep 14, 2010, 08:44 AM
When will it stop??

rdowns
Sep 14, 2010, 08:50 AM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

slicecom
Sep 14, 2010, 08:56 AM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

I clicked on this story on the top left of the main page.

ngenerator
Sep 14, 2010, 08:57 AM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

I lol'ed, how is this not a larger story? Wth is going on today?!?

swarmster
Sep 14, 2010, 08:57 AM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

Consumer Reports says "we still think the same thing" for the third time and that's first page news? Sounds more like they're fishing for free publicity.

Anyway, when a reviewing organization "doesn't recommend" what I consider the best phone I've ever owned, it sounds more like I shouldn't bother paying attention to that reviewing organization. Their taste just isn't relevant to mine.

shartypants
Sep 14, 2010, 09:03 AM
And I hold strong on not renewing my magazine subscription!

MacSween
Sep 14, 2010, 09:07 AM
I don't know of anyone having a problem with the new iphone! I know that it is possible to make the reception problem happen, but I could also "make" reception problems happen on every cell phone I've ever owned.

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 09:16 AM
Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!

Wait, you mean Consumer Reports does not hold the auto manufacturers to the same artificial standard they hold Apple to? How amazing...

-aggie-
Sep 14, 2010, 09:21 AM
Consumer Reports says "we still think the same thing" for the third time and that's first page news? Sounds more like they're fishing for free publicity.

Anyway, when a reviewing organization "doesn't recommend" what I consider the best phone I've ever owned, it sounds more like I shouldn't bother paying attention to that reviewing organization. Their taste just isn't relevant to mine.

This is exactly what I thought when I read the OP. They stated they couldn't recommend the iPhone 4, even if it had bumpers, and now without bumpers they can't recommend it, because it won't have bumpers.

Shookster
Sep 14, 2010, 09:24 AM
Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!

Wait, you mean Consumer Reports does not hold the auto manufacturers to the same artificial standard they hold Apple to? How amazing...

I guess you don't read the news. Toyota has recalled millions of vehicles this year, even though not every owner of those vehicles was specifically experiencing the problem.

bmustaf
Sep 14, 2010, 09:29 AM
I love my iPhone 4, I tend to really love the way Apple does business, but I am not naive, either. I am glad CR is sticking to their principles & original statement and in doing so, holding Apple's feet to the fire however they can.

Let's be very clear - Apple can and will do whatever is most expedient for it. Not necessarily a bad thing because in a perfect market economy consumer preference will find what is good for the consumer to be good for Apple - but I think it's pretty clear that "academic" view of it doesn't always translate into reality.

So, just like the people who threw fits when Apple dropped the price of the iPhone original based on volume sustained by high-price-paying early adopters and got Steve to at least offer some small concession of $100 gift cards to his own store, people/organizations need to keep Apple accountable.

If everyone/every organization falls in line to what Apple tells us we must think/accept, the tail is wagging the dog and the theory of the free market falls apart - let alone the practice.

Written on my MBP, syncing my iPhone 4, my iPad, my iPhone 3GS, and my Magic Mouse right before I got in to my car with a neat little Apple sticker on the back. Just like I love my government, I also fear it. I love my Apple, Inc, but I also know they'll screw me as soon as it becomes convenient for them.

laynemoseley
Sep 14, 2010, 09:40 AM
They are just doing it for publicity I bet...

I've only had one dropped call with my iPhone 4 since it came out... Way better than my 3GS.

Brinkman
Sep 14, 2010, 09:49 AM
Antenna gate was blown out of proportion :rolleyes:

It really was a non issue.

However I do enjoy my free case :)

bmustaf
Sep 14, 2010, 09:59 AM
They DO, I don't think you have the facts. CR held Lexus' feet to the fire to get them to act on the GX - http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/04/consumer-reports-2010-lexus-gx-dont-buy-safety-risk.html .


They EXPLICITLY came out and said "DO NOT BUY". A lot harsher than the Apple "Cannot Recommend".

People trust CR because they're a non-profit that doesn't accept ads, endorsements, or free product. So, I don't see what is wrong with not recommending a product that has a flaw that the manufacturer isn't providing a permanent/non-band aid style fix for.

If you read their article/write up on the iPhone 4, they give you the facts and let you make your decision, but when CR says "Recommended" you can be pretty sure you're buying a product without its issues. I don't think anyone here can say the iPhone 4 is without its issues. Those issues aren't a material problem for me, so I love mine, but I'm not a blind Apple fanboy type, either, so I have the wherewithall to understand that Apple and their products aren't perfect.

I respect CR for making an unpopular call & sticking with it. I tend to trust them because they are open about their testing, results, the facts, and make recommendations based on that. I can make my own decision, so I didn't heed their "Not Recommended", but I do understand and respect why they rated it so and why the Case Program isn't an acceptable answer.

PS - Auto makers pretty much do have to go door-to-door and hand out the fix for affected cars. You get a card in the mail and if it is a safety issue (e.g. accelerator/tip over, etc) they will even have the dealer come GET the car from you until it is "made safe" again. The onus is *NOT* on the owner, the company has to be proactive about it. Besides, CR isn't asking Apple to send a Steve Jobs look alike to everyone's home to put a case on their phone - they're just asking Apple to provide a *permanent* fix, be it a *permanent* case program (which I think is a band-aid, and I think CR sees it that way, too) or a *permanent* hardware fix. There is no certainty what the case (no pun intended) is going to be after Sept 30 - they have a point there.

Follow up - Lexus fixed the problem and CR lifted their "DO NOT BUY" recommendation - http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/05/video-lexus-gx-460-passes-retest-consumer-reports-lifts-dont-buy-label.html . CR is *NOT* the problem here, it's Apple penchant for hubris/self-involvement. I love Apple and their products, but I'm not fooling myself to expect that they'll be any more consumer-friendly and honest than they need to be to turn a profit/feed Steve's ego.

Get your facts straight before you spout off with inaccurate rhetoric.

Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!

Wait, you mean Consumer Reports does not hold the auto manufacturers to the same artificial standard they hold Apple to? How amazing...

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 10:00 AM
I guess you don't read the news. Toyota has recalled millions of vehicles this year, even though not every owner of those vehicles was specifically experiencing the problem.

I guess you don't read my posts carefully. I said what you said, that Toyota issues a recall, but the onus is on the owner to bring in the vehicle for servicing. Exactly as Apple has now done: if you experience a problem, let them know and you can get a free bumper.

To Consumer Reports this is an unacceptable way to deal with a design flaw. If it's Apple. For Toyota, it's fine and considered the normal way to handle a design flaw.

jclardy
Sep 14, 2010, 10:01 AM
I guess you don't read the news. Toyota has recalled millions of vehicles this year, even though not every owner of those vehicles was specifically experiencing the problem.

But his point was that the owner of the car must still bring it in for repair. If they were unaware of the issue it would be unresolved.

Which essentially makes it the same situation as the iPhone. If the owner of the phone has a problem they get the 'fix' if they request it.

But I don't think the magnitude of the problems are anywhere near equal. A $15,000-$20,000 piece of machinery that has a problem that could endanger the operators life vs a $200 cell phone that could drop a call.

appleguru1
Sep 14, 2010, 10:05 AM
...my iPhone 4 still gets the best reception of any phone I've ever owned, regardless of how I hold it or whether or not it has a case on it...

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 10:10 AM
...my iPhone 4 still gets the best reception of any phone I've ever owned, regardless of how I hold it or whether or not it has a case on it...

Yes, of course that's the case for most people. But you'd never know that if you listened to the drumbeat of the media saying that this iPhone version too has reception issues (I say "too" because this is not the first model of iPhone where reception issues were blown out of proportion (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/18/iphone-3g-connectivity-affecting-2-of-customers-software-fix-soon/) to the percentage of users actually affected).

ssspinball
Sep 14, 2010, 10:17 AM
I'm a satisfied iPhone 4 owner, but what CR is doing is perfectly reasonable/logical. Kudos to them.

mattwolfmatt
Sep 14, 2010, 10:17 AM
...my iPhone 4 still gets the best reception of any phone I've ever owned, regardless of how I hold it or whether or not it has a case on it...

Ditto for me. I can't believe I waffled between 3GS, HTC Incredible, and iPhone 4. With 3GS 30% of my calls were dropped, with iPhone 4, 0%. Had it since July 5.

kntgsp
Sep 14, 2010, 10:28 AM
bmustaf

I agree with you on the points that Apple does need a reminder of where it stands in the consumer/producer relationship every now and then, just as any other company does. Consumer Reports generally does a good job with facilitating this. I'd much rather a major publication start taking Apple to task about not allowing sideloading/locking down the device though to be honest.

My issue, from a personal viewpoint as an iPhone and Android user, is the way the iPhone4 antenna issue was approached and in my opinion blown out of proportion in terms of the net effect.

Yes the phone suffers a -20dB attenuation when you hold the device and bridge that antenna. My HTC Desire gave me a -14dB attenuation when I held it in one hand and my Galaxy S gives me -18dB when holding it in one hand. The only difference is that the attenuation on the iPhone4 is possible by simply bridging that antenna with your pinky finger rather than needing to hold the device.

The point there is that how often does someone do that where they lay a device on a table and touch that particular spot with a pinky finger? Or why would someone do that? The issue is that the signal attenuates when the device is held. But every phone suffers that to some degree, with even phones that have internal antennas giving comparable attenuation when held in your hand.

They focused quite a bit on "if I touch the device just like this when it's laying down it gives me the attenuation" despite the fact no one does that. They should have looked at it from a net user experience, where "does a -20dB attenuation make a phone not recommendable compared to a phone with only a -15dB attenuation" being the more deciding factor.

To me personally, I can't see how someone can recommend a phone that gives you -15 to -18dB attenuation when held and then not recommend a phone that gives you -20dB simply because it can also be reproduced by touching a marked spot with your pinky if the device is laying on a table. That's not to say that Apple should be proud that their phone also attenuates (and usually more so by varying degrees), but where's the cutoff?

Is -19dB the maximum allowable attenuation before you say something isn't recommendable? I think that's a fair question to ask.

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 10:37 AM
I think it's a fair question to ask as well. Since all phones have this issue to one degree or another, why is it Apple who got singled out? Because they are the mindshare leaders. If you are Greenpeace and you want to get publicity, call out Apple. If you are Consumer Reports and you want headlines, call out Apple.

When the iPhone 5 comes out, I guarantee there will be stories published about signal issues with it. It's now the standard playbook to use against Apple, and the media goes along with it.

I'm a Consumer Reports subscriber, but I know their tech coverage is spotty at best. Sometimes it's laughably wrong. And too many people take their word as gospel instead of just one more useful data point. Heh, it's funny but as this thread is developing I just got a subscriber email from them asking for a $26 donation to them so they can continue to buy the products they test. I'll pay them $26 because I believe in their non-advertiser supported model.

But I wish they would not feed the anti-Apple FUD playbook. Yes, Apple absolutely should be called out for a design flaw, one that they are going to fix, but let's not blow it out of proportion the way it was. And let's not be hypocritical and call out Apple while giving a pass to everyone else with similar issues. That's the problem I'm focusing on.

RBD2
Sep 14, 2010, 10:44 AM
http://tinyurl.com/yed7h3p

kntgsp
Sep 14, 2010, 10:46 AM
The way CR seems to approach it (and I might have to reread their article that they keep changing and updating and reaffirming and I lost interest a while ago) is as if they approached a computer review like this:

"The aluminum Macbook can survive a 3 foot fall and still function. The aluminum Macbook will not melt on the stove."

"The plastic Toshiba can survive a 2.8 foot fall and still function. The plastic Toshiba will melt on the stove."

They then give excess weight to the latter statements about each laptop despite it not really being a normal use scenario and declare the Toshiba not recommendable. So what's the point? Is "not melting on a stove" an advantage? Sure. Is there a reason you should have a computer on a stove? No.

It seems like it's more fair to stress the importance of the initial normal use results than the secondary observations that have nothing to do with everyday usage and are not representative of what people will be doing with the device.

Of course that kind of reasoning is often met with "you can't tell a user how they should use a device". I agree, you can't. However when you label something not recommendable based essentially entirely on the extra -3dB attenuation (compared to my Galaxy S) and the fact that if you place the device on a flat surface and bridge the antenna with your finger you get the same extra -3dB attenuation, I fail to see the credible argument.

/yes I realize the pinky finger attenuation while laying a phone on a table is not destructive like cooking a laptop is. They are both about as relevant to everyday usage in my opinion.

TalonFlyer
Sep 14, 2010, 10:48 AM
Does the iPhone have an inherent design issue with regards to antenna performance. The answer is, absolutely YES. Does the bumper mitigate this issue, in my experience it does, however only a marginal amount.

I have dropped calls every day, in places where I would have near full signal if I was not holding the phone. I have 3G data issues, especially in the fringe areas where I did not have an issue with my 3Gs.

The iPhone is a great device and I agree that consumer reports is splitting hairs with the antenna issue.

Apple agree's there is a problem or they would not have given away bumpers to everyone.

Fortunately, I use my iPhone as a phone only about 20% of the time, so 80% of my use is great. The other 20% is only a problem about 1 in 7 calls.

So, while it is a little inconvenient when a call drops when I hold the phone in that way, or short data interruptions on 3G from time-to-time, overall I get a lot done with the iPhone.

I do look forward to changing my iPhone to a newer device at the first reasonable opportunity, primarily because of the antenna issue.

kiljoy616
Sep 14, 2010, 10:59 AM
When will it stop??

When Iphone 5 comes out, :rolleyes: .

kntgsp
Sep 14, 2010, 11:03 AM
Want to know an issue that actually DOES bother me about iOS devices? No? Well I'm bored so tough.

I still want to know why I can't plug an iPhone into any computer and use it as a mass storage device for quick transfer of large files?

Android can do this, Symbian can do this, it is not difficult. The thing comes with 32GB of space and I can't dedicate even 1GB of that to a mass storage mount? Really? It's one of the biggest business uses I have for the device. I shouldn't have to carry around a USB stick anymore. Hell with Symbian3 you can even plug a USB stick/drive DIRECTLY INTO the Symbian3 phone itself to move files.

Screw you Steve. Seriously, screw you. That is one of the biggest reasons I will continue to jailbreak. That and a complete lack of quick access to my Wifi/Bluetooth/GPS/3G radio controls.

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 11:04 AM
When Iphone 5 comes out, :rolleyes: .

Heh, and even then...

As I said, competitors planted news about iPhone 3 flaws, and then iPhone 4 flaws, and I'm sure they will do the same about iPhone 5 flaws. The flaws will exist, of course, but it will be inflated to the point where it's implied you are crazy if you buy an iPhone 5. And all of the iPhone 5 competitors who have similar flaws will get a pass.

Until the iPhone 6 comes out and the cycle repeats. Now, if we had reporters who did more than stenography, we might get rationality instead of emotionalism when this stuff gets pushed by PR firms.

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 11:06 AM
Want to know an issue that actually DOES bother me about iOS devices? No? Well I'm bored so tough.

I still want to know why I can't plug an iPhone into any computer and use it as a mass storage device for quick transfer of large files?

Android can do this, Symbian can do this, it is not difficult. The thing comes with 32GB of space and I can't dedicate even 1GB of that to a mass storage mount? Really? It's one of the biggest business uses I have for the device. I shouldn't have to carry around a USB stick anymore. Hell with Symbian3 you can even plug a USB stick/drive DIRECTLY INTO the Symbian3 phone itself to move files.

Screw you Steve. Seriously, screw you. That is one of the biggest reasons I will continue to jailbreak. That and a complete lack of quick access to my Wifi/Bluetooth/GPS/3G radio controls.

Interesting. Instead of jailbreaking, know what I do? I copy my files onto my iOS devices as a backup. No problem. I have several GB of data on both my iPod touch and my iPad.

kevingaffney
Sep 14, 2010, 11:10 AM
Does the iPhone have an inherent design issue with regards to antenna performance. The answer is, absolutely YES. Does the bumper mitigate this issue, in my experience it does, however only a marginal amount.

I have dropped calls every day, in places where I would have near full signal if I was not holding the phone. I have 3G data issues, especially in the fringe areas where I did not have an issue with my 3Gs.

The iPhone is a great device and I agree that consumer reports is splitting hairs with the antenna issue.

Apple agree's there is a problem or they would not have given away bumpers to everyone.

Fortunately, I use my iPhone as a phone only about 20% of the time, so 80% of my use is great. The other 20% is only a problem about 1 in 7 calls.

So, while it is a little inconvenient when a call drops when I hold the phone in that way, or short data interruptions on 3G from time-to-time, overall I get a lot done with the iPhone.

I do look forward to changing my iPhone to a newer device at the first reasonable opportunity, primarily because of the antenna issue.
I would agree completely. Have to say I use mine all day for business use. Hardly ever drop a call and it's way the best of all the iPhones I've had so far going back to 2nd gen

Plutonius
Sep 14, 2010, 11:12 AM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

I would rather read about the Ninja stars then this story. It would have even been better if there was a taser involved :).

kntgsp
Sep 14, 2010, 11:13 AM
Interesting. Instead of jailbreaking, know what I do? I copy my files onto my iOS devices as a backup. No problem. I have several GB of data on both my iPod touch and my iPad.

I have yet to find a single Windows or Linux computer at work that will allow me to simply drag and drop some files onto the device as if it were a mounted drive like any other USB stick or Android/Symbian phone.

It's why the girlfriend has the iPhone4 and I am using Android at the moment (which I am growing to detest for lack of decent VNC options)

mags631
Sep 14, 2010, 11:13 AM
http://tinyurl.com/yed7h3p

Non sequitur.

trellus
Sep 14, 2010, 11:25 AM
Ditto for me. I can't believe I waffled between 3GS, HTC Incredible, and iPhone 4. With 3GS 30% of my calls were dropped, with iPhone 4, 0%. Had it since July 5.

This just goes to show you how subjective an experience this is.

My experience with dropped calls has been the same on the 3GS and the iPhone 4 -- about 1 out of 20 calls, or 5%, are dropped, and about 40% of all calls lasting longer than 15 minutes are dropped, but this has not changed from 3GS to 4, either. In short, my reception hasn't gotten worse with the iPhone 4, but it hasn't improved, either, but in neither case am I blaming it on the iPhone, but AT&T here in Dallas. When I was on Sprint (Palm Pre and Palm Treo before that), I rarely, rarely ever had dropped calls... so I blame it on the network. =]

blizaine
Sep 14, 2010, 11:28 AM
Consumer Reports says "we still think the same thing" for the third time and that's first page news? Sounds more like they're fishing for free publicity.

That is all they ever do. It's all about page hits and controversy for them. They did the same thing with the whole protein drink scare they tried to create a few months ago, that his been disproved multiple times.

Scooterman1
Sep 14, 2010, 11:39 AM
I guess you don't read my posts carefully. I said what you said, that Toyota issues a recall, but the onus is on the owner to bring in the vehicle for servicing. Exactly as Apple has now done: if you experience a problem, let them know and you can get a free bumper.

To Consumer Reports this is an unacceptable way to deal with a design flaw. If it's Apple. For Toyota, it's fine and considered the normal way to handle a design flaw.

I just have a hard time picturing Toyota mailing me a new accelerator pedal and linkage and expecting me to install it. Wake up!

But why should Apple provide a permanent fix when the problem hasn't affected sales too much, and they can come out with a fixed phone next year and get you to stand in line to buy it.

Consumer Reports are doing exactly what their subscribers are paying them to do. I'm sorry if everyone isn't Apple Fanboys, but they get paid NOT to be anyone's Fanboy.

Gasu E.
Sep 14, 2010, 11:42 AM
I guess you don't read my posts carefully. I said what you said, that Toyota issues a recall, but the onus is on the owner to bring in the vehicle for servicing. Exactly as Apple has now done: if you experience a problem, let them know and you can get a free bumper.

To Consumer Reports this is an unacceptable way to deal with a design flaw. If it's Apple. For Toyota, it's fine and considered the normal way to handle a design flaw.

I think you are a minority of one on this interpretation. Apple is saying you now won't get the case unless you are exhibiting the problem. Toyota's recall applies to ALL cars in the affected series, and they will repair/replace the questionable part whether you are exhibiting problems or not. Moreover, Toyota's sends a recall notice to all the impacted owners; with the new Apple policy, you have to read the news or contact Apple to learn of the program.

bigdaddyp
Sep 14, 2010, 11:45 AM
They DO, I don't think you have the facts. CR held Lexus' feet to the fire to get them to act on the GX - http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/04/consumer-reports-2010-lexus-gx-dont-buy-safety-risk.html .

Follow up - Lexus fixed the problem and CR lifted their "DO NOT BUY" recommendation - http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/05/video-lexus-gx-460-passes-retest-consumer-reports-lifts-dont-buy-label.html . CR is *NOT* the problem here, it's Apple penchant for hubris/self-involvement. I love Apple and their products, but I'm not fooling myself to expect that they'll be any more consumer-friendly and honest than they need to be to turn a profit/feed Steve's ego.

The problem I sometimes have with their recommendations is that their reports are written to assume you are a total dumba$$ with no personal responsibility.

If you are driving a 2 1/2 ton suv like its a sports car then there is a good chance that you will be forcibly yanked out of the gene pool. Ten years ago many or most large suvs would have tipped over or gone out of control in that scenario. Instead of praising the advances automakers have made they instead have a hissy fit that a large, heavy automobile can get a bit loose when driven beyond its limits.

How about reminding their readers that electronic stability control can't overcome the laws of physics and extra care needs to taken when driving large, top heavy vehicles in curves.

Yes I am glad that Toyota tweaked and improved the stability control, but I think this illustrates that Cr. feels the consumer has no or little personal responsibility for their actions.

rstansby
Sep 14, 2010, 11:48 AM
Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!

That is precisely what auto manufacturers do. They send a letter to every owner, and fix the problem, whether or not the owner has reported it.

nagromme
Sep 14, 2010, 11:57 AM
Consumer Reports is making five mistakes:

1. Not doing full-scale testing of the kind antenna engineers have called them out on. They’ve done informal testing—quick and easy, but not the full useful facts their readers deserve. Yes, that kind of testing would need some really expensive facilities and lots of time. So they should at least point out that their tests are very limited and may be misleading.

2. Not publishing stats on how many users actually lose calls over this. They do surveys all the time—how about one comparing the iPhone 4 to other phones in actual use? (Most of the iPhone 4 antenna complaints seem to come from people who don’t own one!)

3. Criticizing only the iPhone, not other phones, for losing signal when gripped wrong. (Which all phones clearly do. Some more, some less. Many of them tell you right in the manual not to “hold it that way!")

4. Exaggerating the problem. Putting a very rare and minor issue, that affects so few, ahead of so many positives that affect everyone: benefits no other phone can touch. How are their flaws (which no case can fix) vs. the iPhone acceptable? And does CR clearly state that they DO recommend the iPhone for case users—which is a huge (maybe the largest) group of phone users?

5. Standing on their ego (or worrying misguidedly about their reputation) and not refining their position when that is clearly called for. Black-and-white controversial simplicity sells mindshare and magazines. But it doesn’t reflect reality, and CR readers deserve better. CR should be willing to back down when they’ve gone too far. Example: “The iPhone 4’s antenna flaws are rarely an issue and it’s the best smartphone we reviewed. But because we don’t know what each buyer will experience, we are only able to fully recommend the iPhone 4 if you also use a case. Luckily, Apple will continue to supply one free of charge on request, so this antenna issue need not affect your calls nor your wallet."

I only trust CR’s large-scale survey data (they seem to be good at that) not their editorial content. They’ve consitently failed to note Apple’s legitimate strengths over the years (ever see an article helping the everyday buyer choose between OS X and Windows?) but never fail to make something out the negatives. That’s not helping an uninformed reader become informed. And it really does seem like an anti-Apple bias sometimes.

That is precisely what auto manufacturers do. They send a letter to every owner, and fix the problem, whether or not the owner has reported it.

And that kind of preventive mass action makes sense for a product that holds peoples’ lives in its hands every moment of use.

It’s absurd to suggest that Apple should “fix” a problem as though it were widespread, when it’s not. Fixing it when it IS a problem is all that is necessary. And then let the non-iPhone users continue to moan about how bad Apple is treating us contented iPhone users :D They believe a blog wildfire over actual user experience—or at least they enjoy fanning the wildfire?

MacPhilosopher
Sep 14, 2010, 12:01 PM
My reception experience has been significantly better since upgrading to the 4. I've dropped fewer than 5 calls in a month in my home in which I normally drop every call I am on longer than a minute. I have reception in my workplace that I refer to as the cell phone vortex. Once in the door I usually drop all bars, but now I can get reception deep in the building.

Popeye206
Sep 14, 2010, 12:02 PM
Isn't the iPhone 4 still their top rated phone overall? Seems silly that they won't recommend their top rated smart phone? Makes you wonder why?

BTW... I got my iPhone4 the first day out. Love it.. love it more that iOS4.1 is out and the proximity sensor issue is a non-issue now. That was the source of all my issues.

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 12:02 PM
I think you are a minority of one on this interpretation. Apple is saying you now won't get the case unless you are exhibiting the problem. Toyota's recall applies to ALL cars in the affected series, and they will repair/replace the questionable part whether you are exhibiting problems or not. Moreover, Toyota's sends a recall notice to all the impacted owners; with the new Apple policy, you have to read the news or contact Apple to learn of the program.

Toyota fixes all vehicles because they all have the potential to have dangerous problems.

Most iPhone owners have no problem whatsoever, and there's no danger at all to anyone.

So Toyota HAS to fix them all. It would be pointless for Apple to fix all iPhones in the field when most of them never have an issue needing a fix. But if you do have a problem, let them know and they will fix it for you for free. That's hardly a burden for such a non-dangerous situation.

We live in this ridiculous era of expectations. Apple comes out with a reasonable solution to a problem that affects a tiny percentage of users, and they get slammed for it. Hypocrisy.

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 12:03 PM
I think you are a minority of one on this interpretation.

Then you should read the entire thread and see that you are wrong in this thought.

MacPhilosopher
Sep 14, 2010, 12:04 PM
I just have a hard time picturing Toyota mailing me a new accelerator pedal and linkage and expecting me to install it. Wake up!

But why should Apple provide a permanent fix when the problem hasn't affected sales too much, and they can come out with a fixed phone next year and get you to stand in line to buy it.

Consumer Reports are doing exactly what their subscribers are paying them to do. I'm sorry if everyone isn't Apple Fanboys, but they get paid NOT to be anyone's Fanboy.

Did you really just compare installing a complicated accelerator system in your car to putting a bumper or case on your phone? You are Funny.

MacPhilosopher
Sep 14, 2010, 12:08 PM
Toyota fixes all vehicles because they all have the potential to have dangerous problems.

Most iPhone owners have no problem whatsoever, and there's no danger at all to anyone.

So Toyota HAS to fix them all. It would be pointless for Apple to fix all iPhones in the field when most of them never have an issue needing a fix. But if you do have a problem, let them know and they will fix it for you for free. That's hardly a burden for such a non-dangerous situation.

We live in this ridiculous era of expectations. Apple comes out with a reasonable solution to a problem that affects a tiny percentage of users, and they get slammed for it. Hypocrisy.

Not to mention, there have been three or fewer known stuck accelerators in Toyotas out of millions of cars. I cannot imagine that there are at least that many for every manufacturer. This was a media fail for both Apple and Toyota, not a product fail.

berol
Sep 14, 2010, 12:10 PM
I haven't heard of anyone dying from a dropped phone call. The problem is user-correctible with a piece of tape or just remembering not to touch that part of the phone if you even have the problem. At some point, you have to use the accellerator on a Toyota.

CR takes a few of every product and gives it a 'recommended' tag. They decided not to give it to the iphone 4. Almost every phone they review doesn't get the tag so it means something, but the iphone got the press over it.

Castiel
Sep 14, 2010, 12:26 PM
I just have a hard time picturing Toyota mailing me a new accelerator pedal and linkage and expecting me to install it. Wake up!

But why should Apple provide a permanent fix when the problem hasn't affected sales too much, and they can come out with a fixed phone next year and get you to stand in line to buy it.

Consumer Reports are doing exactly what their subscribers are paying them to do. I'm sorry if everyone isn't Apple Fanboys, but they get paid NOT to be anyone's Fanboy.
Oh no! You used the word Fanboy! Everything in your post is now dubbed as completely accurate and truthful because if anyone speaks on Apple's defense they are speaking totally biasly. Congrats!

And if you think after the 3rd time that's it still not just a way to get publicity, you're being a tad naive.

sappy1
Sep 14, 2010, 12:35 PM
I'm glad CR is taking its stand.

For me, the antenna issue was WORSE than people had reported. It didn't matter where I touched the antenna, the reception was affected.

True, the bumper completely fixed it, but there is still a problem with the device.

rfahey
Sep 14, 2010, 12:38 PM
It isn't even September 30th. For all we know Apple may need more time to evaluate and extend the program another month. Where's confirmation that the program is canceled that day? I wouldn't go off touting that Apple's canceling a program that hasn't been canceled. What you're upset that Apple's not keeping us in the loop? When has Apple EVER kept us in the loop?

NebulaClash
Sep 14, 2010, 12:44 PM
For me, the antenna issue was WORSE than people had reported.

I don't see how. I saw it being reported on the national evening newscasts and on the front pages of newspapers. How much more reporting could there possibly have been?

iceterminal
Sep 14, 2010, 01:46 PM
Rehashing old news for front page?

Consumer reports said they gave it a non recommendation months ago, they haven't change it.
So why re-reporting the same thing?

Thats like a cop saying "STOP! Or I'll say stop again!" :rolleyes:

SFStateStudent
Sep 14, 2010, 01:55 PM
Oh, great! We listen to a company that says "all generic brand foods taste the same as brand name foods!" I'm waiting to hear what Ralph Nader says...ROFL :p

logandzwon
Sep 14, 2010, 02:01 PM
...my iPhone 4 still gets the best reception of any phone I've ever owned, regardless of how I hold it or whether or not it has a case on it...

same here

WilliamG
Sep 14, 2010, 02:20 PM
Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!

Wait, you mean Consumer Reports does not hold the auto manufacturers to the same artificial standard they hold Apple to? How amazing...

Well, if a car made phone calls and was... you know... a phone, that would be different.

I think Consumer Reports are dead on in not recommending the iPhone 4. And take that from someone who loves his iPhone 4.

bug67
Sep 14, 2010, 02:33 PM
Whatever. I got one anyway. No problems whatsoever. :D

skeep5
Sep 14, 2010, 03:05 PM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

maybe they were rubber ninja stars.

Yoyodyne2
Sep 14, 2010, 03:30 PM
bmustaf


My issue, from a personal viewpoint as an iPhone and Android user, is the way the iPhone4 antenna issue was approached and in my opinion blown out of proportion in terms of the net effect.

Yes the phone suffers a -20dB attenuation when you hold the device and bridge that antenna. My HTC Desire gave me a -14dB attenuation when I held it in one hand and my Galaxy S gives me -18dB when holding it in one hand. The only difference is that the attenuation on the iPhone4 is possible by simply bridging that antenna with your pinky finger rather than needing to hold the device.

Is -19dB the maximum allowable attenuation before you say something isn't recommendable? I think that's a fair question to ask.

The thing that was most disturbing about CR's reporting for me is that they couldn't test all the available cell phones and determine if the attenuation exists in all of them. If they think this attenuation is important why didn't they do this testing. Seems like they saying that they are incapable of testing any electronic device.

So, after rating the phone number one, they respond to some blogger about how the iPhone has a signal drop. CR then reproduces the drop in bars and gets on it's high horse about Apple not taking care of this with lightning speed. Now because the free bumper program is going away and the problem is to be taken care of with the usual Apple warranty coverage (which might include a free bumper) CR sputters again.

skidudeoz
Sep 14, 2010, 03:36 PM
Well if the US had a decent 3G network, then there would be no problem, like the REST OF THE WORLD!!!! No issues here in OZ!!

mavis
Sep 14, 2010, 03:45 PM
When will it stop??

Maybe when Apple fixes their **** design so that my $600 phone doesn't say "No Service" every time I make the mistake of holding it with my left hand instead of my right. :mad:

bmustaf
Sep 14, 2010, 04:07 PM
You must be very unfamiliar with how an auto recall works. Besides, the analogy is flawed.

They cannot reasonably service your car in your household for anything but the easiest of repairs (e.g. fill your tires up to the right pressure, but even then, what if there's a flat and they have to patch it? balance it?).

Besides, no one is asking Apple to go to everyone's home.

Finally, every auto owner involved in a recall gets notified. If they can't or don't feel safe bringing it in, most recalls cover some alternate method (e.g. if you didn't want to drive your Prius in in the most recent recall, Toyota offered to have their dealer send out a flatbed or a tech to drive it in for you in many cases).

No one has offered to have an Apple Rep come out to my house to pick up my iPhone 4 to fit the case, because that's unreasonable.

I guess you don't read my posts carefully. I said what you said, that Toyota issues a recall, but the onus is on the owner to bring in the vehicle for servicing. Exactly as Apple has now done: if you experience a problem, let them know and you can get a free bumper.

To Consumer Reports this is an unacceptable way to deal with a design flaw. If it's Apple. For Toyota, it's fine and considered the normal way to handle a design flaw.

entatlrg
Sep 14, 2010, 04:13 PM
Maybe RIM or Google bribed consumer reports :eek:

My iPhone 4 works perfect as do my friends.

CR sucks

MagnusVonMagnum
Sep 14, 2010, 04:16 PM
Consumer Reports says "we still think the same thing" for the third time and that's first page news? Sounds more like they're fishing for free publicity.

Anyway, when a reviewing organization "doesn't recommend" what I consider the best phone I've ever owned, it sounds more like I shouldn't bother paying attention to that reviewing organization. Their taste just isn't relevant to mine.

My personal opinion is that you and anyone else like you on here that thinks it's NOT a good idea for Consumer Reports to look out for the best interests of the CONSUMER instead of Apple's bottom line doesn't deserve the time of day, in my humble opinion. You seem to believe that Consumer Reports should simply be an automatic blessing to Apple's profits as if they were acting solely on advertising dollars (like a certain magazine called "Stereo Review" used to do all the time) and shouldn't inform their readers of potential problems. All I can say is THANK GOD that YOU don't work for them!!!! :p

Consumer reports gave a fair and HONEST report on the iPhone giving its highest score based on its merits but gave an honest reason WHY they could not recommend it and let the consumer decide for themselves if they want to take the risk. In short, they are doing their job properly.

So I'll reiterate AGAIN that I do not comprehend how someone like yourself could find fault with that line of reasoning other than to admit that you are a Steve Jobs drone. :rolleyes:

2 Replies
Sep 14, 2010, 04:49 PM
They are just doing it for publicity I bet...

... O_o ...
The're a magazine.
....
Publicity DEFINES their business model.

</@laynemoseley>

That said, I still agree with their decision to not recommend it, and the timing of this restating of their stance is fine since Apple's offer is nearly up.
Apple has acknowledged the phone does have a unique issue (that is NOT just the same as the issue of covering up the antenna that most mobile devices have ... otherwise adding an extra bumper wouldn't fix it.).
No self-respecting consumer product review org would recommend a product with known flaws that the manufacturer refuses to adequately fix in the long term.

iPhonesIntoCash
Sep 14, 2010, 05:07 PM
Apple claims that this issue only affects a small number of users and I can say that I haven't noticed much of my clientele complaining about it. I own a company, iPhonesIntoCash.com (http://www.iPhonesIntoCash.com) and we purchase used or broken iPhones. So I've heard various complaints about the iPhone and why people may be getting rid of theirs, but this issue has not been a major problem from the people I've spoken with. Also, I have an iPhone 4 and haven't experienced the problem myself. Consumer Reports is a good backing to have from a marketing perspective though so hopefully Apple can reach an agreement with them to get some type of endorsement.

b3beater
Sep 14, 2010, 05:46 PM
I'm glad CR is taking its stand.

For me, the antenna issue was WORSE than people had reported. It didn't matter where I touched the antenna, the reception was affected.

True, the bumper completely fixed it, but there is still a problem with the device.

I always think it's odd when someone would join the board the same of day of their post simply to write something very negative like this which flies in the face of most user experiences. :rolleyes:

MickyJ10
Sep 14, 2010, 06:25 PM
I've had no trouble with my phone. I'd recommend it to anyone. But CR will have a credibility issue if it backs down. If I were CR I'd not back down either.

animatedude
Sep 14, 2010, 07:04 PM
who the **** CARES about consumer reports? in fact i bet if you do a poll in here,most users will vote they didn't even know such thing even existed.

boycott the consumers reports.

manhattanboy
Sep 14, 2010, 08:39 PM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

That's the hottest avatar I've seen since the guy who had the moving butt picture of the jailbait girl. :D

TelegraphRoad
Sep 14, 2010, 09:24 PM
I subscribed to their magazine for about 10 years. I bought into the whole thing ... raffle, website subscription, donations ... the whole bit. I finally got smart after being burned on riding mowers, washing machines, hotels, hand-held vacuums and most other crap. I religiously purchased their recommendations, except for cars since I worked in that business and they were too biased against some brands. I found their recommendations so unreliable, that I started shopping from the bottom of this. Anyway, I can't recommend them and perhaps we can get publicity for making that statement.

mavis
Sep 15, 2010, 12:09 AM
I always think it's odd when someone would join the board the same of day of their post simply to write something very negative like this which flies in the face of most user experiences. :rolleyes:

Then allow me to confirm what he said. I cannot use my iPhone 4 at home without a case; every other phone I've owned (including several iPhones) has always shown full signal in every room in the house. The iPhone 4's antenna problem is real, and listening to Apple sheep swear up and down that it's not doesn't change the fact that my iPhone 4 says "No Signal" when I make the mistake of holding it in my left hand. :rolleyes:

detoxguy
Sep 15, 2010, 02:10 AM
This story gets buried in the blog and a story of ninja stars makes page one? No Apple bias here. :rolleyes:

possibly the dumbest statement of the day (saying alot). Of course there's an Apple bias...it's called MAC rumors....

CR blah blah blah is supposed to be news?

mrwheet
Sep 15, 2010, 02:26 AM
Then allow me to confirm what he said. I cannot use my iPhone 4 at home without a case; every other phone I've owned (including several iPhones) has always shown full signal in every room in the house. The iPhone 4's antenna problem is real, and listening to Apple sheep swear up and down that it's not doesn't change the fact that my iPhone 4 says "No Signal" when I make the mistake of holding it in my left hand. :rolleyes:

Zero problems with my iPhone 4. Totally happy with it. I bought it fairly recently (just over a month ago), so maybe it's a more recent run, and doesn't have the problem. Not sure. Really don't care. But the fact that my phone works doesn't make me a f***king "Apple sheep." It's really simple; the phone does what it says on the box. I'm not saying every unit does, by mine does. Deal with it.

xoxxooxx

w

windows311
Sep 15, 2010, 02:28 AM
CR hasn't been relevant in at least 5 years. Another mag that made a terrible transition to the web. Welcome to the interweb CR, now will you please hire a web designer? Your site is embarrassing.

hogo
Sep 15, 2010, 06:16 AM
and who cares...

hogo
Sep 15, 2010, 06:18 AM
same here

me three

igazza
Sep 15, 2010, 06:59 AM
5 days 19 hours of talking on my iphone 4 :cool:

2 dropped calls i can remember

justbuyamac
Sep 15, 2010, 07:29 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_4; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.8 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.1 Safari/533.17.8)

A non-issue for the 3 iPhones in my account. We have used cases on all iPhones we've had.

Sounds like CR is trolling for free publicity. Antenna and reception issues have been an issue with all cell phones from the very beginning.

NebulaClash
Sep 15, 2010, 08:08 AM
No one has offered to have an Apple Rep come out to my house to pick up my iPhone 4 to fit the case, because that's unreasonable.

Right, and what Apple has proposed doing is very reasonable. They have a product that works well for the majority of users. It's the highest-rated phone CR tested. For a few people, there is an issue. All summer long Apple has allowed everyone, those with the issue and all of those with no problems, to have a free case. Now they are saying you've had plenty of time to get your free case, now we will just give it to those who, you know, actually need one. Just let us know, and you get the bumper free. How on earth is that hard?

Meanwhile they are going to alter the design of the phone so that even this issue will go away for future models.

What does CR want? A total recall? For what? Most people have no issue, there is no danger, the few people who have the issue get a free solution, what would be the point of doing it any other way?

Auto manufacturers publicize the issue, make a solution possible, but it's up to the car's owner to approach the dealership to get that free solution. CR sez this is a good thing.

Apple publicizes the issue, makes a solution possible, but it's up to the phone's owner to approach Apple to get that free solution. CR sez this is unacceptable.

All other phone manufacturers get ignored.

Hypocrisy.

azentropy
Sep 15, 2010, 08:34 AM
Right, and what Apple has proposed doing is very reasonable. They have a product that works well for the majority of users.

CR disagrees. So if a product works most of the time for most people that is good enough to recommend? They are saying they don't recommend it.

Meanwhile they are going to alter the design of the phone so that even this issue will go away for future models.
Which does not affect this model, so they should change their recommendation based on what future models may or may not fix?

What does CR want? A total recall? For what? Most people have no issue, there is no danger, the few people who have the issue get a free solution, what would be the point of doing it any other way?
In order for them to recommend it, yes. Or at least include the case at time of purchase. They have stated this.

Auto manufacturers publicize the issue, make a solution possible, but it's up to the car's owner to approach the dealership to get that free solution. CR sez this is a good thing.

Apple publicizes the issue, makes a solution possible, but it's up to the phone's owner to approach Apple to get that free solution. CR sez this is unacceptable.


No, you are missing the point. Yes auto manufactures have recalls all the time and yes the customer has to come in to get it fixed on previous purchases. HOWEVER, they also fix all NEW automobiles before continue to sell to new customers. Apple isn't doing that, and that is CR's complaint.

BaldiMac
Sep 15, 2010, 08:51 AM
As far as the car comparisons go, I actually had an issue that is on point (as opposed to comparing a safety recall to a reception issue.)

I had a 2006 Acura TSX which got poor stereo reception because of an internal antenna. The official response was that it was "working as designed." They offered one year of satellite radio to anyone who complained about it.

Sounds a lot like Apple's response!

NebulaClash
Sep 15, 2010, 09:00 AM
No, you are missing the point. Yes auto manufactures have recalls all the time and yes the customer has to come in to get it fixed on previous purchases. HOWEVER, they also fix all NEW automobiles before continue to sell to new customers. Apple isn't doing that, and that is CR's complaint.

If it was a safety issue, as with cars, Apple would do the same thing. But it's not, so it's silly to to conflate the two. That was not the intent of my analogy, and that's being missed by those focusing on the trees.

Mr Bigs
Sep 15, 2010, 09:17 AM
bmustaf

I agree with you on the points that Apple does need a reminder of where it stands in the consumer/producer relationship every now and then, just as any other company does. Consumer Reports generally does a good job with facilitating this. I'd much rather a major publication start taking Apple to task about not allowing sideloading/locking down the device though to be honest.

My issue, from a personal viewpoint as an iPhone and Android user, is the way the iPhone4 antenna issue was approached and in my opinion blown out of proportion in terms of the net effect.

Yes the phone suffers a -20dB attenuation when you hold the device and bridge that antenna. My HTC Desire gave me a -14dB attenuation when I held it in one hand and my Galaxy S gives me -18dB when holding it in one hand. The only difference is that the attenuation on the iPhone4 is possible by simply bridging that antenna with your pinky finger rather than needing to hold the device.

The point there is that how often does someone do that where they lay a device on a table and touch that particular spot with a pinky finger? Or why would someone do that? The issue is that the signal attenuates when the device is held. But every phone suffers that to some degree, with even phones that have internal antennas giving comparable attenuation when held in your hand.

They focused quite a bit on "if I touch the device just like this when it's laying down it gives me the attenuation" despite the fact no one does that. They should have looked at it from a net user experience, where "does a -20dB attenuation make a phone not recommendable compared to a phone with only a -15dB attenuation" being the more deciding factor.

To me personally, I can't see how someone can recommend a phone that gives you -15 to -18dB attenuation when held and then not recommend a phone that gives you -20dB simply because it can also be reproduced by touching a marked spot with your pinky if the device is laying on a table. That's not to say that Apple should be proud that their phone also attenuates (and usually more so by varying degrees), but where's the cutoff?

Is -19dB the maximum allowable attenuation before you say something isn't recommendable? I think that's a fair question to ask.How many of those devices actually loose service because of a grip ?

Aleco
Sep 15, 2010, 09:30 AM
I don't see this hurting iPhone 4 sales, not one bit. Who even listens to CR these days?

azentropy
Sep 15, 2010, 09:34 AM
If it was a safety issue, as with cars, Apple would do the same thing. But it's not, so it's silly to to conflate the two. That was not the intent of my analogy, and that's being missed by those focusing on the trees.

Not all auto recalls are for safety issues. The point is Apple DID NOT FIX the issue with the new iPhone's they are selling, again something automobile manufactures are expected to do regardless of it is a safety issue or not. It doesn't matter how many or few people have the issue, the issue exists and they did not issue a permanent, non-interactive and satisfactory fix for CR's to recommend the product.

I have the issue as the signal in my area from AT&T sucks. I'm fine with using a case as I planned on using one anyway. But if someone in my area wanted an iPhone 4 and does like or want a case, then I wouldn't recommend it to them.

NebulaClash
Sep 15, 2010, 09:38 AM
Not all auto recalls are for safety issues. The point is Apple DID NOT FIX the issue with the new iPhone's they are selling, again something automobile manufactures are expected to do regardless of it is a safety issue or not. It doesn't matter how many or few people have the issue, the issue exists and they did not issue a permanent, non-interactive and satisfactory fix for CR's to recommend the product.

I have the issue as the signal in my area from AT&T sucks. I'm fine with using a case as I planned on using one anyway. But if someone in my area wanted an iPhone 4 and does like or want a case, then I wouldn't recommend it to them.

And I would recommend the iPhone 4 to everyone I know, almost all of whom use a case no matter what phone they have.

Let's drop the car analogy, it's causing more trouble than my point is worth. Apple did not fix the issue YET, but they said they would. What would you have them do in the meantime? What would CR have them do? No doubt a product recall which would be silly overkill. Apple's solution is simple, free, and easy.

Glideslope
Sep 15, 2010, 09:45 AM
When will it stop??

Jan 2011. :apple:

azentropy
Sep 15, 2010, 09:57 AM
And I would recommend the iPhone 4 to everyone I know, almost all of whom use a case no matter what phone they have.

Let's drop the car analogy, it's causing more trouble than my point is worth. Apple did not fix the issue YET, but they said they would. What would you have them do in the meantime? What would CR have them do? No doubt a product recall which would be silly overkill. Apple's solution is simple, free, and easy.

CR wants them to include a free case in the box at the time of purchase. Isn't that a MORE "simple, free, and easy" solution than what Apple did and are now doing away with? Apple's solution is no longer "simple, free and easy" after Sep. 30th. BTW - it took 7 weeks for me to receive my case.

NebulaClash
Sep 15, 2010, 10:34 AM
CR wants them to include a free case in the box at the time of purchase. Isn't that a MORE "simple, free, and easy" solution than what Apple did and are now doing away with? Apple's solution is no longer "simple, free and easy" after Sep. 30th. BTW - it took 7 weeks for me to receive my case.

Yes, that would be even simpler. I don't view this as a big enough problem to make me indignant that Apple didn't go that extra step, but I guess if you are one of the few who have a real world problem with the iPhone 4 it feels much worse to you, and I can understand that.

Whenever there is a consumer product that does not work for a percentage of its users, that percentage is up in arms and everyone else wonders what the fuss is about.

sappy1
Sep 15, 2010, 12:03 PM
I don't see how. I saw it being reported on the national evening newscasts and on the front pages of newspapers. How much more reporting could there possibly have been?

On TV, everyone was reporting that the antenna was affected only if you touched it at the black stripes. For me, touching the antenna almost anywhere made the signal go down.

Digital Dude
Sep 15, 2010, 02:22 PM
Antenna gate was blown out of proportion :rolleyes:

It really was a non issue.

However I do enjoy my free case :)

Frankly, it was that very item that made this an issue. Had Apple never offered a case, it wouldn't have been 'perceived' as such a fuss. It was the perception of the case that made folks feel as though the iPhone-4 had a problem.

Sidebar: As part of the Apple ecosystem I feel the iPhone-4 is simply wonderful. As a smartphone device, I’d rather have the upcoming Nokia E7/N9? Meego keyboard slider.

MagnusVonMagnum
Sep 15, 2010, 04:20 PM
Right, and what Apple has proposed doing is very reasonable.

You're right. Making the consumer deal with their flawed product and not even apologizing for selling a fuxored product is VERY reasonable. :rolleyes:


They have a product that works well for the majority of users.


Yes, most users are right-handed. :rolleyes:


It's the highest-rated phone CR tested.

Ok, you admit that CR gave it a fair review...more than fair. It's the highest-rate phone ever....


What does CR want?


A real fix.


A total recall?


I'd call that reasonable given ALL iPhones have the problem. Some people don't experience the problem simply because they are right-handed and don't hold their hand over that part of the phone. That doesn't mean the phone isn't flawed. Would you want a car that has no transmission problems as long as you never shift into 3rd gear?

"But you can SKIP 3rd and go straight to 4th! I always shift that way! I have NO problems with my car!" :rolleyes:


For what? Most people have no issue, there is no danger, the few people who have the issue get a free solution, what would be the point of doing it any other way?


I dunno. Some people think defective products ought to be fixed and not just given excuses by fanboys whose greatest daily activity is to light incense at Steve's alter in their basement. :eek:


Auto manufacturers publicize the issue, make a solution possible, but it's up to the car's owner to approach the dealership to get that free solution. CR sez this is a good thing.


You can't mail a new part to owner and expect them to put it on. Your comparison is beyond absurd.


Apple publicizes the issue, makes a solution possible, but it's up to the phone's owner to approach Apple to get that free solution. CR sez this is unacceptable.


They "sez" that do they? While I be sure and tellz 'um da truth, yo, not just hock Steve's warez fo him.


All other phone manufacturers get ignored.

Hypocrisy.

I would say it's more like irony that certain people think that a consumer orientated magazine ought to ignore their base and give corporations free advertising and LIE to the consumer about flaws the products have and say they dont' exist and that everyone should buy their product while they take money under the table in the form of advertising (how most magazines accept "bribes" from corporate sponsors; just look in any stereo magazine. They won't ever badmouth advertisers' products because they know the advertisers won't buy any more ads from their magazine so you get bullcrap "reviews" that do nothing more than advertise for the company buying their ads instead of telling the consumer how it actually performs. CR does not do this. They don't take advertising for precisely that reason. It's a complete conflict of interests.

But you seem to think CR should take Apple's dime (or just do it for free) and hide their defects and give a full recommendation on a product that is clearly defective and should have been recalled an FIXED not just covered up with cases that they no longer wish to include. Apple has given themselves bad PR on this issue by not doing what needs to be done, all in the name of saving them money when they've got more than enough cash to make things right for everyone. But why should they when they have groupies that go out on the web and make excuses for them 24/7?

NebulaClash
Sep 15, 2010, 05:32 PM
Such a rude response deserves a rude retort, but I'll leave it up as an example of what Apple users face.

I get called a groupie and someone who lights candles for Steve Jobs in my basement, yet I'm the guy who admitted there is a flaw that needs to be fixed, that Apple says they are going to fix, and has a program in place to freely help all affected owners today. Such logic is ignored and instead I'm called names. End of discussion. The anti-Apple attacks are beginning.

I'm still a subscriber to CR. Their tech coverage has sucked for years, but their other tests are better.

Starfires
Sep 16, 2010, 05:40 AM
Anyone who wants to enjoy one of, if not the best smart phone in existence will get the iPone 4 and just use a flippin' case on it, as everyone I know does on their 3GS's anyway! It's true it's a design flaw and one that the free case program was a good solution for... and even truer that a remodel is a better solution, especially for Apple (though I love the beautiful Griffin Etch graphite case I got through them).

Basically this is the best, most useful device I've ever owned- the screen looks like it was painted on. To not recommend it rather than recommend it 'with reservations' seems a bit dogmatic of them. I respect their view, but I, certainly, recommend the 4.:)

aluni
Sep 17, 2010, 03:12 AM
You're right. Making the consumer deal with their flawed product and not even apologizing for selling a fuxored product is VERY reasonable. :rolleyes:



Yes, most users are right-handed. :rolleyes:



Ok, you admit that CR gave it a fair review...more than fair. It's the highest-rate phone ever....



A real fix.



I'd call that reasonable given ALL iPhones have the problem. Some people don't experience the problem simply because they are right-handed and don't hold their hand over that part of the phone. That doesn't mean the phone isn't flawed. Would you want a car that has no transmission problems as long as you never shift into 3rd gear?

"But you can SKIP 3rd and go straight to 4th! I always shift that way! I have NO problems with my car!" :rolleyes:



I dunno. Some people think defective products ought to be fixed and not just given excuses by fanboys whose greatest daily activity is to light incense at Steve's alter in their basement. :eek:



You can't mail a new part to owner and expect them to put it on. Your comparison is beyond absurd.



They "sez" that do they? While I be sure and tellz 'um da truth, yo, not just hock Steve's warez fo him.



I would say it's more like irony that certain people think that a consumer orientated magazine ought to ignore their base and give corporations free advertising and LIE to the consumer about flaws the products have and say they dont' exist and that everyone should buy their product while they take money under the table in the form of advertising (how most magazines accept "bribes" from corporate sponsors; just look in any stereo magazine. They won't ever badmouth advertisers' products because they know the advertisers won't buy any more ads from their magazine so you get bullcrap "reviews" that do nothing more than advertise for the company buying their ads instead of telling the consumer how it actually performs. CR does not do this. They don't take advertising for precisely that reason. It's a complete conflict of interests.

But you seem to think CR should take Apple's dime (or just do it for free) and hide their defects and give a full recommendation on a product that is clearly defective and should have been recalled an FIXED not just covered up with cases that they no longer wish to include. Apple has given themselves bad PR on this issue by not doing what needs to be done, all in the name of saving them money when they've got more than enough cash to make things right for everyone. But why should they when they have groupies that go out on the web and make excuses for them 24/7?

so the iphone 4 is their highest rated phone ever, based on their tests and they do not recommend it. Doesn't that mean they need to fix their rating system?

Point is that it IS their best phone. So Apple set out to make the best phone and CR's own testing validates that!

Looks to me like if you can't recommend your best product, then it isn't your best product!



You like others who have bought into the google backed media campaign are totally dismissive of the top rating the phone actually got from CR and only focusing on the cannot recommend aspect. If CR cannot recommend their best product, then their rating system is flawed. End of story. Why should apple recall the top rated product in history!

I am left handed and have absolutely no issues with the iphone 4.

aluni
Sep 17, 2010, 03:24 AM
Ok, you admit that CR gave it a fair review...more than fair. It's the highest-rate phone ever....



A should they when they have groupies that go out on the web and make excuses for them 24/7?

so what you are saying is that if you want to buy the best smart phone according to consumer reports it would be the iphone 4.

so you are agreeing that the iphone 4 is the best smart phone out there.

because if you don't believe it is the best smart phone, then it means you don't agree with consumer reports. So you are in the same boat with those who do not agree with consumer reports...

so you either defend consumer reports and also agree the iphone 4 is the best phone ever or disagree with them, which puts you in the same boat as those who you accuse of being less than you are.

apple set out to make the best phone....according to consumer reports they succeeded. accept that fact and move on.

neonmd
Sep 17, 2010, 01:21 PM
It is the best handheld device I have ever used. I could go on about most every feature but here is maybe my favorite. I have used the phone now for 2 days straight(I work that long about 5 times a month) and I still haven't dropped below 20% battery. This feature alone makes it unreal when you think of everything it does.
No case for me.
Can definitely make my bars drop in weak signal areas.
Has never affected my use of the phone or anything else.
Definitely recommend.
Dropped my subscription to Consumer Reports.

MagnusVonMagnum
Sep 17, 2010, 03:34 PM
so the iphone 4 is their highest rated phone ever, based on their tests and they do not recommend it. Doesn't that mean they need to fix their rating system?

No, it means the product has an intermittent defect unrelated to the otherwise stellar performance.


Point is that it IS their best phone. So Apple set out to make the best phone and CR's own testing validates that!


You don't seem to know the difference between a terminal defect and a high performing product. If a Toyota vehicle tests better than anything else out there in every normal category yet has a defect that while rare could kill you (i.e. no brakes or massive unintended acceleration), some readers JUST MIGHT want to know about that defect. And a magazine could in no good conscience recommend a vehicle that has a potentially fatal flaw even if in every other area it's wonderful. While the iPhone is not a "fatal" flaw, it is a potentially terminal one. If the thing is constantly dropping calls simply because you naturally tend to cover the antenna with your hand (for whatever reason), you should probably be aware of this. Given all previous iPhones did not have this problem, it SHOULD be pointed out so consumers can make an INFORMED DECISION.

But you and the other apologists on here (and that's being nice) seem to think they should ignore massive defects or that their tests are somehow flawed even though this is not a normal "testable" function. It's an intermittent DEFECT that Apple admits exists yet they do not seem to want to fix. If Toyota came out and said "we know some of our cars will potentially accelerate out of control, but we've decided we won't fix it but instead will wait for you to call us after you've discovered YOUR car has that problem" (assuming you survive it when it happens to you), I think there would be a more than a bit of uproar.... Oh wait. THAT is EXACTLY what they did and that's exactly what happened. :rolleyes:

Don't worry. I don't expect you or any of the other Apple apologists to "get" it. You're too in love with Steve and Apple to think logically at this point. All you know is that people are ragging on the love of your life and you want it to stop!


You like others who have bought into the google backed media campaign are totally dismissive of the top rating the phone actually got from CR and only focusing on the cannot recommend aspect. If CR cannot recommend their best product, then their rating system is flawed. End of story. Why should apple recall the top rated product in history!


So now there's a Google conspiracy as well? LOL. :D

All it comes down to is that defective products should be fixed by the companies that make them. Apple doesn't want to do it because they are greedy. They don't want to support their computers for more than two years these days for the same reason. They are greedy. They want you to keep buying more products more often. They don't care about long-term customers anymore because they want repeat short-term customers instead. Just wait for iPhone 5. That one will fix it. iTunes 10 is buggy as heck and crashes your computer all the time? Just wait for iTunes 11 to fix it, but be prepared to buy a new computer to use it because it won't work on anything older than Snow Leopard. Sorry, but that's not good business and it's starting to alienate some of us big time.

so what you are saying is that if you want to buy the best smart phone according to consumer reports it would be the iphone 4.

so you are agreeing that the iphone 4 is the best smart phone out there.

because if you don't believe it is the best smart phone, then it means you don't agree with consumer reports. So you are in the same boat with those who do not agree with consumer reports...

so you either defend consumer reports and also agree the iphone 4 is the best phone ever or disagree with them, which puts you in the same boat as those who you accuse of being less than you are.

apple set out to make the best phone....according to consumer reports they succeeded. accept that fact and move on.

Ok, based on your double post and complete illogic I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess your age is rather, shall we say, very young because what you are saying makes about as much sense as saying someone who is against drunk driving is against alcohol as well because they're so obviously mutually exclusive. :rolleyes:

elmo151
Sep 18, 2010, 10:38 AM
CR often solves the wrong problems. Its rarely disclosed criteria are often off the mark.
did they compare the iPhone to the competition?

bri1212
Sep 18, 2010, 02:49 PM
Anyway, when a reviewing organization "doesn't recommend" what I consider the best phone I've ever owned, it sounds more like I shouldn't bother paying attention to that reviewing organization. Their taste just isn't relevant to mine.[/QUOTE]

Well said!

Nwanda
Sep 19, 2010, 09:12 PM
Antenna gate was blown out of proportion :rolleyes:

It really was a non issue.

However I do enjoy my free case :)
I concur. I would have bought and used the phone even without the case. Now, it's just a bonus!

viewfly
Sep 20, 2010, 07:17 PM
I hold strong on my opinion of Consumer Reports too.

I took their advice on the best vacuum cleaner to buy, some years ago.
$ 200 later I wound up with a very poor vacuum cleaner....

I like their fact sheet on buying cars...but I never take their opinion on which car to buy...

IHMO

I love my 2 iP4's...

QCassidy352
Sep 20, 2010, 08:18 PM
Having now had an iphone 4 for a month, I consider this the most overblown problem I've ever come across. Yes, I can lose bars if I don't have a case and hold it a certain way while in a bad coverage area. I can do that on my 3GS and bb curve, too. Yes, I lose more bars with the iphone 4 than those phones. But again, only with no case and holding it a certain way, in a low coverage area. So I move my finger a quarter inch.

Who. freaking. cares.

Honestly, people are so worried about the principle of the matter (I shouldn't have to use a case! I shouldn't have to change how I hold it!) that they've completely missed whether it actually really makes for a worse experience. For me, it absolutely does not.

I also still don't get how CR can give it the highest overall rating and not recommend it.

rKunda
Sep 20, 2010, 11:19 PM
I also still don't get how CR can give it the highest overall rating and not recommend it.

IMO, it's down to their perception of their rep. and pride. They can't just come out and say "we were wrong" so they have to dig in.

iUserz
Sep 21, 2010, 03:04 AM
I have had absolutely zero problems with my iPhone 4 and love it to death. 'course I'm in Canada where we're not tied to AT&T but I haven't had a single dropped call.

I'll make my own decision - don't need CR to hold my hand...

JaSuS
Sep 21, 2010, 03:13 PM
Antenna gate was blown out of proportion :rolleyes:

It really was a non issue.

However I do enjoy my free case :)

+1 I enjoy everything :)

MagnusVonMagnum
Sep 21, 2010, 04:32 PM
Who. freaking. cares.

Honestly, people are so worried about the principle of the matter (I shouldn't have to use a case! I shouldn't have to change how I hold it!) that they've completely missed whether it actually really makes for a worse experience. For me, it absolutely does not.

I also still don't get how CR can give it the highest overall rating and not recommend it.

I don't get how people can get so freaking upset over what CR has to say one way or the other. I mean they come into this thread saying they don't care, but they must to waste their time telling everyone else how much they don't care. :eek:

davidgrimm
Sep 23, 2010, 08:25 PM
"Influential"?

Consumer Reports used to influence my opinion, but when they actually rank things I know a little about, I always find fault with their methods and so they really aren't that influential to me anymore. I mean if their methods stink on the categories I know of, they probably stink for the categories I don't know about.

Corndog5595
Sep 23, 2010, 08:27 PM
Letís be honest here. Itís all for page views and we all know it.

NebulaClash
Sep 24, 2010, 09:40 PM
I'm a Consumer Reports subscriber, but I know their tech coverage is spotty at best. Sometimes it's laughably wrong. And too many people take their word as gospel instead of just one more useful data point. Heh, it's funny but as this thread is developing I just got a subscriber email from them asking for a $26 donation to them so they can continue to buy the products they test. I'll pay them $26 because I believe in their non-advertiser supported model.


I just want to confirm that I did send them the $26 donation they asked for from their subscribers. I believe in what they do, even if I disagree with them on this issue (as noted ad naseum in this thread).

Bromac
Sep 27, 2010, 11:01 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/09/14/093156-iphone_4_case.jpg

Influential ratings magazine Consumer Reports generated waves earlier this year by deciding that it couldn't recommend (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4-due-to-signal-issues/) the iPhone 4 to potential customers due to its antenna issues, despite the fact that the device garnered the top score (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/aside-from-signal-issue-consumer-reports-rates-iphone-4-highest-amongst-all-smartphones/) in the magazine's ratings of smartphones. With Apple's offer of free cases made at its July press conference about the issue, the magazine maintained its non-recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/), claiming that the temporary program was insufficient in addressing the problem.

Now that Apple has officially announced that it will be ending the free case program (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/10/apples-free-iphone-4-case-program-to-end-september-30th/) as of September 30th, Consumer Reports has once again noted its displeasure with Apple's treatment of the issue and declined to add the device to its list of recommended models.Apple has indicated that any customers experiencing reception issues on their iPhone 4s should contact AppleCare to obtain free cases, opting to end the blanket program in favor of an on-request policy to address what the company believes is a very small number of customers affected by the issue.

Article Link: 'Consumer Reports' Holds Strong on iPhone 4 Non-Recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)


I got the iphone 4 and it is out of this world!!!!!!

Bromac
Sep 27, 2010, 11:05 AM
I donot know what i can say

Get the 4. It's awsome!!!!!Everybody gets a cover for there iphone anyways. You will not be disappointed.

mharpo
Sep 27, 2010, 02:07 PM
I canceled my subscription to CR for this very reason. How can anyone rely upon their advice? Ridiculous...

MagnusVonMagnum
Sep 27, 2010, 04:57 PM
I canceled my subscription to CR for this very reason. How can anyone rely upon their advice? Ridiculous...

I dunno. I thought Consume Reports existed to INFORM consumers of good and bad things about consumer products and then that would help you make an informed decision based on that information. I never knew you were supposed to "rely on their advice" by buying one product and only one product because they told you to like some kind of freaking lemming. I don't buy a Toyota Camry just because they gave it a good review, but I do want to know if it has potential braking or accelerator pedal issues (whether caused by a mat or something else) before I buy it and that is helpful information to a normal person who wants to know the truth and not just marketing hype from Apple. If I wanted marketing hype, I would go to the Toyota web site, not Consumer Reports. I would think this sort of think would be obvious to most people, but then we have quite a lot of cantaloupes in this world that actually believe that Fox News actually is fair and unbiased and believe every bit of Republican propaganda nonsense that comes out of their mouths on that station so I guess you can't count on people having common sense or being able to judge anything with their own brains instead of having someone plant it there for them. :confused:

NateEssex
Sep 27, 2010, 10:25 PM
I just want to confirm that I did send them the $26 donation they asked for from their subscribers. I believe in what they do, even if I disagree with them on this issue (as noted ad naseum in this thread).

Wow, I think $26 is a bit too high. I would pay $15 max.

DELLsFan
Sep 29, 2010, 06:08 PM
Right, and what Apple has proposed doing is very reasonable. They have a product that works well for the majority of users. It's the highest-rated phone CR tested. For a few people, there is an issue. All summer long Apple has allowed everyone, those with the issue and all of those with no problems, to have a free case. Now they are saying you've had plenty of time to get your free case, now we will just give it to those who, you know, actually need one. Just let us know, and you get the bumper free. How on earth is that hard?

Meanwhile they are going to alter the design of the phone so that even this issue will go away for future models.

What does CR want? A total recall? For what? Most people have no issue, there is no danger, the few people who have the issue get a free solution, what would be the point of doing it any other way?

Auto manufacturers publicize the issue, make a solution possible, but it's up to the car's owner to approach the dealership to get that free solution. CR sez this is a good thing.

Apple publicizes the issue, makes a solution possible, but it's up to the phone's owner to approach Apple to get that free solution. CR sez this is unacceptable.

All other phone manufacturers get ignored.

Hypocrisy.

Maybe ...

For me, the way Apple handled this issue from the VERY beginning was disappointing. The reception issue was laughed away, ignored, then addressed as something else (the software "fix" for signal strength). Eventually, they reported this was a problem ALL phones experience, then they acquiesced the specific problem with the iPhone 4 and ONLY then offered the free bumpers.

I don't care if 1% or less of consumers experience the problem ... a problem exists ... was not corrected by a software fix ... and is still not officially corrected ... just worked around. Consumer Reports was absolutely right about the problem and is well within their right to recommend or not recommend the product. Now how DARE they show the not-so-shiny side of an Apple product ?!? Give me a break.

No sign of any white iPhones, no official word on whether the post-September 30 batches of iPhone 4's will have that insulator installed inside to make death gripping the phone moot, and no warm fuzzy on the software fix pushed to address the 3G performance issues ...

Yeah ... there are still some people waiting to see when Apple will pull their heads out of their :apple:'s before re-upping with AT&T for the new precious. They keep dragging their feet, my current contract will fulfill and I can jump back to Verizon next year. :p

Hraggleblarg
Sep 29, 2010, 10:41 PM
Every time I go by CR's reviews, I make a terrible purchase... I wonder what that says.

pika2000
Oct 9, 2010, 04:36 PM
This issue seems to be mostly discussed in US centric blogs/sites/forums and US users. The iPhone 4 is shipped worldwide. So why aren't we seeing the same amount of outrage from users overseas?

dorramide7
Oct 17, 2010, 11:48 PM
I don't know of anyone having a problem with the new iphone! I know that it is possible to make the reception problem happen, but I could also "make" reception problems happen on every cell phone I've ever owned.

Does Consumer Reports stop recommending automobile purchases? Because you know if there is an issue with a car, the manufacturer will issue a recall. If you are affected, you have to take it into a dealer where it will be fixed. The onus is on the owner of the car, for crying out loud! The auto manufacturers should go house to house providing the fix for free to all cars, whether their owners report a problem or not!

Wait, you mean Consumer Reports does not hold the auto manufacturers to the same artificial standard they hold Apple to? How amazing...

Pine Pienaar
Oct 20, 2010, 02:40 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/09/14/093156-iphone_4_case.jpg

Influential ratings magazine Consumer Reports generated waves earlier this year by deciding that it couldn't recommend (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4-due-to-signal-issues/) the iPhone 4 to potential customers due to its antenna issues, despite the fact that the device garnered the top score (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/aside-from-signal-issue-consumer-reports-rates-iphone-4-highest-amongst-all-smartphones/) in the magazine's ratings of smartphones. With Apple's offer of free cases made at its July press conference about the issue, the magazine maintained its non-recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/), claiming that the temporary program was insufficient in addressing the problem.

Now that Apple has officially announced that it will be ending the free case program (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/10/apples-free-iphone-4-case-program-to-end-september-30th/) as of September 30th, Consumer Reports has once again noted its displeasure with Apple's treatment of the issue and declined to add the device to its list of recommended models.Apple has indicated that any customers experiencing reception issues on their iPhone 4s should contact AppleCare to obtain free cases, opting to end the blanket program in favor of an on-request policy to address what the company believes is a very small number of customers affected by the issue.

Article Link: 'Consumer Reports' Holds Strong on iPhone 4 Non-Recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)

As much as I like the IPhone 4 its reception is not as good as my Black Berry Curve's and as such I can only agree with the above!
Regards

markie
Oct 20, 2010, 02:01 PM
Consumer Reports has always been corrupt and in it to tear down companies. Look at the Suzuki Samurai, which was a great vehicle and sales dropped when they said it was prone to rollover. Too bad it wasn't, and they had to modify the test course several times to tip the car... designed specifically for that vehicle to exploit it's weakest point.

MagnusVonMagnum
Oct 20, 2010, 03:33 PM
Consumer Reports has always been corrupt and in it to tear down companies.

What a crock of nonsense. :rolleyes:

Apparently, your idea of "corrupt" is to tell the truth about products instead of letting unsafe, Chinese garbage get pushed on the world with millions in advertising, but not a useful word in the bunch. Do you think Apple is going to advertise their antenna problem or Suzuki is going to brag that their vehicle is more likely to roll over than most other vehicles on the road? Heck no. Most magazines take money directly from the manufacturers that advertise in their magazines and thus have a total conflict of interests. Here's a magazine that doesn't take a dime from advertisers and thus has no reason to pick on anyone or lie about anything. But YOU call that "corruption." That's like Republicans saying they will create jobs (and leave out the "in China" part).

Bernard SG
Oct 21, 2010, 05:52 AM
14 million devices sold in Q3 2010.
'Nuff said.

Hooksta
Oct 22, 2010, 06:47 AM
14 million devices sold in Q3 2010.
'Nuff said.

LOL...that's like Fox News touting their ratings as a testament that they are Fair and Balanced.

Epsilon88
Oct 23, 2010, 10:32 PM
Just subscribed online w/ Consumer Reports. I've always trusted their advice, and it's led me well.

BC2009
Oct 24, 2010, 12:59 AM
What a crock of nonsense. :rolleyes:

Apparently, your idea of "corrupt" is to tell the truth about products instead of letting unsafe, Chinese garbage get pushed on the world with millions in advertising, but not a useful word in the bunch. Do you think Apple is going to advertise their antenna problem or Suzuki is going to brag that their vehicle is more likely to roll over than most other vehicles on the road? Heck no. Most magazines take money directly from the manufacturers that advertise in their magazines and thus have a total conflict of interests. Here's a magazine that doesn't take a dime from advertisers and thus has no reason to pick on anyone or lie about anything. But YOU call that "corruption." That's like Republicans saying they will create jobs (and leave out the "in China" part).

First off, Consumer Reports makes money by selling subscriptions which means free press is good for them. Sensational popular bad reviews gets them publicity - good reviews get them nothing. In fact their video review was so obviously biased and unprofessional it was a joke. The guy should have been wearing an "Down with Apple" T-shirt with the Android robot peeing on the Apple logo.

Second, the Suzuki Samarai is not a Chinese vehicle - Suzuki is a Japanese company.

Third, save your political slant for some other forum - we talk tech here - not politics.

Fourth, hate China much?

Fifth, I personally tried to verify Consumer Reports claims in multiple iPhone-4 units to no avail. I'm still holding off for iPhone-5 to save my budget, but all I can say about iPhone-4 is that it's the best phone I've ever seen.

BC2009
Oct 24, 2010, 01:24 AM
Ditto for me. I can't believe I waffled between 3GS, HTC Incredible, and iPhone 4. With 3GS 30% of my calls were dropped, with iPhone 4, 0%. Had it since July 5.

And remarkably Consumer Reports recommended the 3GS. Which drops more calls just like other smart phones drop calls. What CR did was take advantage of the media hysteria and jumped on the bandwagon with a review that would put them in the spotlight. I would respect them much more if they did not recommend previous model iPhones that got worse reception.

But their biased unprofessional review with the reviewer's little demonstration with the masking tape showed their bias and intent. They were simply out to take advantage of an opportunity to take wall street's favorite child down in order to get the spotlight.

Where was the "non-recommendation" on the first review that rated the iPhone-4 as the best phone ever? That was when it was popular in the media to praise apple - before antenna-gate. CR came off on this one like a politician wavering with public opinion. I always expected CR to uncover issues with products, not simply ride the media public opinion wave or worse to publish fiction to sell their subscriptions.

Hooksta
Oct 24, 2010, 11:01 AM
I'm still "surviving" with what is becoming a slower and slower iPhone 3G. I've been out of contract since June but am holding off on buying a new iPhone at this time. I was visiting my brother in law who has an iPhone 4 and I put my index finger (not even my whole hand) over the bottom left corner where the seam is and his phone dropped from five bars to two. I let go and the phone went right back up to five bars. CR Reports seemed legit to me.

I'm a huge Apple fan. My wife and I both own the MacBooks (which CR LOVES), two of the new iPod Nano's and shuffles from a couple years ago, and we both have iPhones. So in no way could I be considered a "Droid"/Verizon guy here trying to cause trouble. Heck I couldn't even tell you how many Droid type phones there even are. I wouldn't have a clue.

My only general complaint about my iPhone 3G (wife has 3GS) is that I wish the speaker in the ear set (not speakerphone) was louder. Sometimes I can barely hear the others when I am driving my Acura TL....which is a fairly quiet car. My company blackberry (which I really only like for email) has a speaker that I cannot tolerate at full volume. I think half volume on that thing is as much as full on the iPhone. I'll almost absolutely stick with iPhone but I am waiting to see if Verizon does get it (because AT&T drops more calls than my Verizon blackberry) and I'd also like to see if Apple fixes this current iPhone design. I feel for certain the 2011 version will have "quietly" fixed this "supposed" non-issue.

MagnusVonMagnum
Oct 24, 2010, 05:22 PM
First off, Consumer Reports makes money by selling subscriptions which means free press is good for them. Sensational popular bad reviews gets them publicity - good reviews get them nothing.


Bullcrap. WTF looks through CR to read bad reports? I look in it to find the BEST performing and quality products, not the worst. I only care about the worst if it was something I was considering at which point I take a much closer look.


Second, the Suzuki Samarai is not a Chinese vehicle - Suzuki is a Japanese company.


I wasn't referring to a specific product, but the fact that most crap comes from China these days (vehicles are one of the few exceptions).


Third, save your political slant for some other forum - we talk tech here - not politics.


Sorry, but EVERYTHING is politics. You cannot discuss economics and manufacturing without bumping into it.


Fourth, hate China much?


I hate their government. They are nuclear armed Communists and Communism goes against most of the things I believe in from all forms of freedom dictatorships. Admittedly corrupt democracies aren't night and day better, but they're still better. You apparently like Communism (so long as it's good for the wallet?)


Fifth, I personally tried to verify Consumer Reports claims in multiple iPhone-4 units to no avail. I'm still holding off for iPhone-5 to save my budget, but all I can say about iPhone-4 is that it's the best phone I've ever seen.

Most people take warnings as warnings. You apparently think the rest of the review (highest rated smart phone ever) doesn't even exist. You'd rather waste your time arguing about a magazine that most people find useful at times.

BC2009
Oct 25, 2010, 05:58 AM
Bullcrap. WTF looks through CR to read bad reports? I look in it to find the BEST performing and quality products, not the worst. I only care about the worst if it was something I was considering at which point I take a much closer look.


I agree with you on that point -- nobody looks through CR for a bad report -- but you missed my point. If I am NOT a CR subscriber and the news comes out with some big thing CR uncovered then I am more likely to think "Wow, CR is a great publication -- I should subscribe". But if CR releases yet another glowing review of something from Honda, Apple, Toyota then I would think "I already knew that -- those are good brands".

CR gets notoriety in the media when they uncover something on one of the brand favorites. It also helps give them credibility with the masses by going after these guys. Sometimes they are over-zealous in their efforts. Their reviewers have personal bias too and I fully believe that comes to play in their reviews. It was just over obvious in the video they released on iPhone-4. The reviewer's little attempts at humor tipped his hand. Watch the video again and ask yourself "was this an unbiased reviewer?" The answer is an obvious "No".

The reviewers at CR make their mark by uncovering the missteps by the big-name brands. Its how they build their career. Apple is a big target for any of their reviewers (as are any automobile manufacturer when it comes to safety issues -- these are big news).

I've never seen the 11:00 news lead with a story on "Consumer Reports says the new iPhone is the best", but they are certainly going to lead with "Consumer Reports says Apple's new phone is fundamentally flawed". The reviewers know this and they look to get the big story. They are human and their personal motivations play into what they do, just like everyone else.

BC2009
Oct 25, 2010, 06:08 AM
Sorry, but EVERYTHING is politics. You cannot discuss economics and manufacturing without bumping into it.


I respectfully disagree. Politics to me is a bunch of idiots trying to sway my opinion with unbelievable arguments so they can garner my vote and maintain their little sphere of influence in government. Politics effects everything, but political arguments are generally a poor characterization of reality. In politics these days everything is demonized. People are polarized on one end of the extreme or the other. The day of bi-partisan compromise seems to be over.

Hence, I'd prefer it if folks saved their political debates for the threads in the political forum. I read this mostly to escape that garbage (i.e.: the unreasonably demonization of the half the population because of how they might feel about some social issue).

I have my own political views, and likely we agree on many things, we could rant forever on this forum -- but that's not what this forum is for and I'd hate for it to deteriorate into yet another place for such debates.

EDIT: Your remarks on my feelings on Communism are not correct. I feel very differently than you stated. But this is not the place to discuss that further. I doubt anybody who comes here cares.

sandro21
Nov 5, 2010, 04:05 AM
They are just doing it for publicity I bet...

I've only had one dropped call with my iPhone 4

markie
Nov 5, 2010, 08:08 AM
Do you have a clue what you're talking about? It's pretty well-known now that Consumer Reports framed the Suzuki Samurai to sell magazines and to tear down a Japanese company (and SUVs in general). They had to design a custom test course to get the results they wanted, designed specifically to get the Samurai to tip. The article about how unsafe it was, was written BEFORE they drive tested the car.

I can tell you, I know a lot about a lot of things, and the things I know about, when I read Consumer Reports I am AMAZED at the sheer incompetence of their testing. At best, it's severely flawed, hearsay, and/or simply meaningless. At worst, it's severely biased.

What a crock of nonsense. :rolleyes:

Apparently, your idea of "corrupt" is to tell the truth about products instead of letting unsafe, Chinese garbage get pushed on the world with millions in advertising, but not a useful word in the bunch. Do you think Apple is going to advertise their antenna problem or Suzuki is going to brag that their vehicle is more likely to roll over than most other vehicles on the road? Heck no. Most magazines take money directly from the manufacturers that advertise in their magazines and thus have a total conflict of interests. Here's a magazine that doesn't take a dime from advertisers and thus has no reason to pick on anyone or lie about anything. But YOU call that "corruption." That's like Republicans saying they will create jobs (and leave out the "in China" part).

MagnusVonMagnum
Nov 5, 2010, 04:34 PM
Do you have a clue what you're talking about? It's pretty well-known now that Consumer Reports framed the Suzuki Samurai to sell magazines and to tear down a Japanese company (and SUVs in general).

LOL. Yeah, sure they did. I suppose we didn't actually go to the moon either, eh? :p

You don't watch Fox "News", per chance do you? Or perhaps Mr. Limbaugh is your source of knowledge of the world? :D



I can tell you, I know a lot about a lot of things, and the things I know about, when I read Consumer Reports I am AMAZED at the sheer incompetence of their testing. At best, it's severely flawed, hearsay, and/or simply meaningless. At worst, it's severely biased.

Yes, I can tell from you post that you know a LOT about all kinds of things. :rolleyes:

spinedoc77
Nov 6, 2010, 11:38 AM
They are just doing it for publicity I bet...

I've only had one dropped call with my iPhone 4

I've got 2 ip4's, one for me and one for my wife. They drop calls quite frequently, I wouldn't say a huge amount more than our old 3GS', but definitely noticeable more drops. It's funny how people who have no problems say that no one has any problems, but they do. I can noticeably drop my signal bars by just pressing my thumb on the antenna seam, and if I'm in a low signal area I can usually make the phone drop a call by putting my hand on that seam.

Now I still own my ip4, I like it, don't love it, but like it for what it does enough for me to keep it. I'm not complaining, but there is a need to temper both the "there is no problem" AND the "sky is falling" camps. Invariably, as with most other stuff in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and there are some problems with the iphone4 but they aren't deal breakers. I think this is the vast majority of users who follow along on these forums and are amused by the vitriolic camps on both sides who fight to the bitter end to prove their point, I know I'm certainly amused at how much energy some put in to prove their point.

WRIGHTRACING
Nov 15, 2010, 11:39 PM
Toyota fixes all vehicles because they all have the potential to have dangerous problems.

Most iPhone owners have no problem whatsoever, and there's no danger at all to anyone.

So Toyota HAS to fix them all. It would be pointless for Apple to fix all iPhones in the field when most of them never have an issue needing a fix. But if you do have a problem, let them know and they will fix it for you for free. That's hardly a burden for such a non-dangerous situation.

We live in this ridiculous era of expectations. Apple comes out with a reasonable solution to a problem that affects a tiny percentage of users, and they get slammed for it. Hypocrisy.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, but to all of you comparing Apple/Phone manufacturer to Toyota/Car manufacturer.

So the deal with the "SAFETY" recall of the sticking accelerator, the way it works in the auto industry, generally they catch these things in testing "ON TRACK", but this was one that slipped thru the tracks, just the same as software issues Apple had with iOS4.0 and 4.1 on the older iPhones. So the customers experienced the problem, and it was reported. Toyota(the same as all other greedy, self righteous companies out there, deny everything), then had to create a software fix for the problem in the computer of the car. They then mail out letter's to everyone, because this is a safety issue. You can bring your vehicle in, if you feel safe, and if not, they will tow it at cost to warranty.

Now there are also other things that are problems with cars, and are reported by many consumers, but it isn't classified as a recall, because it is not a safety recall. Take the Chrysler 2.7 engine. It was unfortunate, because it was a good engine, but they had a flaw. The cylinder heads over time got oil buildup from the scorched oil around the overhead valvetrain. It was caused by the heads having a flaw in design that caused them to get hot spots and scorching the oil. So it was noted to Chrysler, and they decided if the engine had this problem and the owner kept sufficient evidence of oil changes, and it was within a certain mileage. They never sent this information out to anyone, and most don't know of this replacement, but the dealers know about it, and the company knows about it as well, and they will pay to replace it under certain circumstances, so long as you do your studying, and find what you can on this engine. As I said this is not safety related, and doesn't apply to everyone, so they don't let everyone know, or don't replace everyone's engine.

Built
Nov 16, 2010, 06:25 AM
I was an early adopter on iPhone 1st gen. I upgraded to iPhone 3G 18 months later. Skipped 3GS, and ordered the iPhone 4 on June 15th during the big frenzy.

My iPhone 4 was delivered to my home the day before launch day.

Granted I have always had a cheap thin rubberized case around my iPhone 4 (but I have also had one on all my other iPhones as well)...but the iPhone 4 has given me BETTER service...fewer dropped calls...increased versatility...amazing battery life...better screen...faster response...than any of my other iPhones...

While long ago, I generally enjoyed Consumer Reports, I believe their stance is nothing more than a blatant attempt at sensationalism based on initial reports of iPhone issues.

Personally, over the years, I have seen Consumer Reports almost imperceptibly slide into what it is today...a largely commercialized rag which long ago lost its "pro-consumer, anti-establishment" focus.

el-John-o
Nov 30, 2010, 08:02 AM
The only thing that bugs me, is that I quite believe that iOS fakes cell reception. For example, having a FULL 3G signal could be anywhere from 500k-2mbps, where my old phone, aircard, others peoples phones, show 1-2 bars, maybe 3. I get the same speeds with it as I do with my aircard in particular places, but the iPhone shows a stronger signal?

So while it appears to have better reception, I don't think it actually does.

That said, I've never dropped a call. It's definitely no worse than any other device, I just don't think it reports accurately.

mKTank
Nov 30, 2010, 12:04 PM
The only thing that bugs me, is that I quite believe that iOS fakes cell reception. For example, having a FULL 3G signal could be anywhere from 500k-2mbps, where my old phone, aircard, others peoples phones, show 1-2 bars, maybe 3. I get the same speeds with it as I do with my aircard in particular places, but the iPhone shows a stronger signal?

So while it appears to have better reception, I don't think it actually does.

That said, I've never dropped a call. It's definitely no worse than any other device, I just don't think it reports accurately.

Pre-Antennagate it used to fake the signal a lot.

But as of current firmware, it's probably one of the most honest indicators out there.

The iPhone 4's antenna does provide stronger signals than most other phones. It just drops the signal when held a certain way, but generally it gives a stronger signal than other antennas.