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mrgreen4242
Dec 17, 2004, 01:00 PM
When and why did Apple start selling only 20" and up displays? $1200 for the cheapest monitor from Apple seems ridiculous! That's almost as much as the entry level PM... it just doesn't make sense to me.

Was there any reason given for this move? Can anyone see any benifit to NOT selling a 17" LCD along side the rest of the models?

Rob

jeremy.king
Dec 17, 2004, 01:10 PM
You don't *have* to buy from Apple. So what if they didn't want to sell smaller monitors.

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/cat/Hardware/Monitors/category.asp

wPod
Dec 17, 2004, 02:53 PM
i agree with mrgreen4242, it would rock if apple sold a 17" affordable monitor. i love the styling of the new apple monitors and would buy one to match my PB, but seeing that the cheapest monitor costs as much as my PB seems a bit rediculous. i would pay a little more than normal 17" monitors but to pay more than a grand, i might as well pick up a porjector and have a full wall of picture!!!

cmvsm
Dec 17, 2004, 03:34 PM
My 20" Cinema is stunning in terms of picture, design, and reliability. I also have the acrylic model which is just as awesome. Yes, a few extra bucks, but its all preference If you don't want it..don't buy it. What's the big deal? Dell always has something for ya! :eek:

jxyama
Dec 17, 2004, 03:37 PM
i agree with mrgreen4242, it would rock if apple sold a 17" affordable monitor. i love the styling of the new apple monitors and would buy one to match my PB, but seeing that the cheapest monitor costs as much as my PB seems a bit rediculous. i would pay a little more than normal 17" monitors but to pay more than a grand, i might as well pick up a porjector and have a full wall of picture!!!

that's pretty much exactly why they aren't selling smaller/cheaper ones. apple doesn't do commodity products because it cheapens the brand and offers no profit margin to their liking.

also, i think they discontinued the smaller ones because their target market (graphic pros) has no use for such a small display.

AmigoMac
Dec 17, 2004, 04:13 PM
Here! Looking forward to see which monitor will use Steve @ MWSF, the first display to mirror was the 17" old school, I don't see any other possibility... will they start widescreen keynotes?

mrgreen4242
Dec 17, 2004, 05:43 PM
Yes, a few extra bucks, but its all preference If you don't want it..don't buy it. What's the big deal? Dell always has something for ya!
You don't *have* to buy from Apple. So what if they didn't want to sell smaller monitors.

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop...rs/category.asp

Well that's exactly my point... if I don't want, or can't afford, a 20" ACD then I HAVE to buy from someone else, even if I would have bought an Apple 17" for a little more than a Dell or <fill in other brand here>. Seems pretty stupid to just not offer something that, most likely, 80% of your customers WOULD buy given the choice.

that's pretty much exactly why they aren't selling smaller/cheaper ones. apple doesn't do commodity products because it cheapens the brand and offers no profit margin to their liking.

also, i think they discontinued the smaller ones because their target market (graphic pros) has no use for such a small display.

You're assertion that Apple doesn't do "commodity" products because it "cheapens" the brand is assinine. If that were the case, there would be no eMac or iPod mini, and the color iPod would mean that the old B&W would be gone, becuase in comparison the old models are cheap! OMG the new iMac only has a 17" screen? No graphic pro would want that! Better get rid if it and go 20" and 22" models only! Or why sell those kludgy USB keyboards and mice when the BT models are definately better and more unique. PC users actually have USB mice, so we can't do that, can we?!

The concept that Macs are for the rich, eleet, graphic artist, musician, etc only is something that I think is holding Apple back, and needs to be re-evaluated by the community at large.

Rob

mklos
Dec 17, 2004, 07:19 PM
I've always asked for a 17" Widescreen display. They already have the damn display with the iMac and PowerBook. Just put the damn thing in an Aluminum case with USB 2.0 Ports and sell it for around $699 or $799. Leave the FireWire Ports off it to keep the price down.

I want a PowerMac, but with the one I want added to the cost of a display is over $4,000!!!!! Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me! I have to buy the display and the PowerMac at the same time in order to get AppleCare on both which is also crap IMO!

Not everyone has the room for a 20" widescreen display or larger, nor does everyone have the $1,200 for a display, especially after spending $3,000 for a PowerMac, or $2500 for a PowerBook.

If Apple would make an Aluminum 17" Widescreen display I think it would sell really well.

mrgreen4242
Dec 17, 2004, 07:31 PM
I've always asked for a 17" Widescreen display. They already have the damn display with the iMac and PowerBook. Just put the damn thing in an Aluminum case with USB 2.0 Ports and sell it for around $699 or $799. Leave the FireWire Ports off it to keep the price down.

I want a PowerMac, but with the one I want added to the cost of a display is over $4,000!!!!! Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me! I have to buy the display and the PowerMac at the same time in order to get AppleCare on both which is also crap IMO!

Not everyone has the room for a 20" widescreen display or larger, nor does everyone have the $1,200 for a display, especially after spending $3,000 for a PowerMac, or $2500 for a PowerBook.

If Apple would make an Aluminum 17" Widescreen display I think it would sell really well.

Putting the iMac 17" display in a seperate case would be idea. $700+ would be exessive tho. you can get a nice 17" for $250, so Apple should be able to make one for $500! Would be nice, tho! Adding one to an iMac (with the screen spanning hack) would be pretty slick, too!

Capt Underpants
Dec 17, 2004, 08:15 PM
My 20" Cinema is stunning in terms of picture, design, and reliability. I also have the acrylic model which is just as awesome. Yes, a few extra bucks, but its all preference If you don't want it..don't buy it. What's the big deal? Dell always has something for ya! :eek:

Except, unlike usual, the Dell 2005FP is not only cheaper, but also better! I don't understand what the big deal is about buying a 20" Apple display when you can get the same thing for half of the price. It doesn't make sense.

cmvsm
Dec 18, 2004, 01:31 AM
Where exactly does it state that the Dell and Apple monitors are identical? I'd like to read that if you have the article at hand. My wife's parents just bought a brand new Dell with all the bells and whistles for about $4,000. The LCD that came with it SUCKS! I was like "this is it???". I'm not sure how they ended up with that POS after paying all that cash. It's only a 15" widescreen and the resolution is really bad. I've heard great things about Dell's phone CS, but I've also heard that you're going to need it as the quality just isn't there.

Like I said before, to each his own, but the color reproduction for print work is second to none on the Apple, IMO, to any other monitor that I've used in the past.

Shoot over the Dell/Apple equivalence article as I'm curious to read it. Thanks!

Devie
Dec 18, 2004, 02:39 AM
Where exactly does it state that the Dell and Apple monitors are identical? I'd like to read that if you have the article at hand. My wife's parents just bought a brand new Dell with all the bells and whistles for about $4,000. The LCD that came with it SUCKS! I was like "this is it???". I'm not sure how they ended up with that POS after paying all that cash. It's only a 15" widescreen and the resolution is really bad. I've heard great things about Dell's phone CS, but I've also heard that you're going to need it as the quality just isn't there.

Like I said before, to each his own, but the color reproduction for print work is second to none on the Apple, IMO, to any other monitor that I've used in the past.

Shoot over the Dell/Apple equivalence article as I'm curious to read it. Thanks!

The new Dell 20.1" Widescreen LCD has better slightly specs than the 20" ACD, also a lot of reviews are comming out that its a fantastic screen.
I also heard that it uses the same LCD company that Apple uses (LG I think it was...)

jxyama
Dec 18, 2004, 08:02 AM
You're assertion that Apple doesn't do "commodity" products because it "cheapens" the brand is assinine. If that were the case, there would be no eMac or iPod mini, and the color iPod would mean that the old B&W would be gone, becuase in comparison the old models are cheap! OMG the new iMac only has a 17" screen? No graphic pro would want that! Better get rid if it and go 20" and 22" models only! Or why sell those kludgy USB keyboards and mice when the BT models are definately better and more unique. PC users actually have USB mice, so we can't do that, can we?!

The concept that Macs are for the rich, eleet, graphic artist, musician, etc only is something that I think is holding Apple back, and needs to be re-evaluated by the community at large.

Rob

i never said macs are for the "rich and eleet (sic)." i said apple doesn't do "commodity" products that "cheapen" the brand. eMac and iPod mini are not commodity products, esp. mini. geez, what was that roar at MWSF '04 that mini was ridiculously overpriced?

i don't think you have the definition of "commodity" right. it doesn't mean "low priced." eMac is low priced but is not a commodity product. and neither is B&W iPod. commodity means the price is the primary distinguishing point - and as evidenced by all the posts at MR asking why dells and irivers are cheaper, eMac and iPod's main draw isn't the price. (relative to other Macs, yes, but not relative to other competiting products.)

USB keyboards and mice are still mainstream and will remain so for quite some time. offering those are not incompatible with my point that apple tends to push the edge of demand. lack of floppy disk, inclusion of ethernet, wireless, firewire, CD-drive, combo drive, super drive, etc. are/were all pushing the edge of demand to where apple believes the world will go. and they believe displays smaller than 20" aren't really cutting edge any more and hence they are no longer being offered.

they believe the time has past for such small displays, as far as in their product line. they aren't saying 17" displays are useless. apple believes that as a product line, offering 17" display is like offering computers without a CD burner. the time has past.

Capt Underpants
Dec 18, 2004, 09:42 AM
Shoot over the Dell/Apple equivalence article as I'm curious to read it. Thanks!

I don't know (and don't feel like searching) for a Dell and Apple article. What I do know is that if you look at the specs, the Dell 2005FP beats the 20" Apple Cinema Display hands down. Let's Compare, shall we.

Apple: 20" Viewable, 1680x1050 resolution, 250 cd/m2 brightness, 300:1 contrast ratio, DVI, 2x Firewire 400, 2x USB 2.0, $1299

Dell: 20.1" Viewable, 1680x1050 resolution, 300 cd/m2 brightness, 400:1 contrast ratio, VGA, DVI, S-Video, Composite, 4xUSB 2.0, $799 List, but can be found for as little as $599

You tell me which one is the better deal.

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 18, 2004, 11:31 AM
Except, unlike usual, the Dell 2005FP is not only cheaper, but also better! I don't understand what the big deal is about buying a 20" Apple display when you can get the same thing for half of the price. It doesn't make sense.

The Dell monitors do offer value. I had "ordered" the 2005FPW (got the 2001FP in its place - long story). Decided to keep the 2001FP after Dell gave me a final offer of $150 savings off the original 2005FPW order at $599, including 12 months interest free financing (sorry to those that replied to my post about the issue - the wide screen was cool, but the savings will go towards a much needed mobile HDD).

If you want wide screen the 2005FPW is the way to go. And with the coupons from Dell, even the 2001FP is a great way to go. Now if I could only find a way to remove the Dell logo from the monitor, I would be happy.

My day and half with the Dell 2001FP is been really sweet. No dead pixels. Used the calibration under the Display settings to get the display the way I like. The Dell does seem to require the 2.2 gamma, otherwise it seems to be washed out.

That being said Dell USA is hell to deal with. Telephone voicemail tree hell. Conflicting statements from different reps. Reps that have English as distant second language. But if you push them, you can get concessions. I just hope that this 2001FP has the same life as my Viewsonic LCD that is now 5 years old.

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 18, 2004, 11:33 AM
Where exactly does it state that the Dell and Apple monitors are identical? I'd like to read that if you have the article at hand. My wife's parents just bought a brand new Dell with all the bells and whistles for about $4,000. The LCD that came with it SUCKS! I was like "this is it???". I'm not sure how they ended up with that POS after paying all that cash. It's only a 15" widescreen and the resolution is really bad. I've heard great things about Dell's phone CS, but I've also heard that you're going to need it as the quality just isn't there.

Like I said before, to each his own, but the color reproduction for print work is second to none on the Apple, IMO, to any other monitor that I've used in the past.

Shoot over the Dell/Apple equivalence article as I'm curious to read it. Thanks!

Would love to know which Dell monitor your parents got. My experience says otherwise. Though Dell support sucks, but for me so far Apple rocks. I mentioned in a different thread that if Apple had a 17' in the $500 to $700 range I would have bought that instead of the Dell.

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 18, 2004, 11:35 AM
The new Dell 20.1" Widescreen LCD has better slightly specs than the 20" ACD, also a lot of reviews are comming out that its a fantastic screen.
I also heard that it uses the same LCD company that Apple uses (LG I think it was...)

I heard that the 2001FP was also a rebadged LG. I question Steve's comment that everyone uses LCD screens that they reject. Nice sound-bite, but where is the beef?

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 18, 2004, 11:38 AM
I don't know (and don't feel like searching) for a Dell and Apple article. What I do know is that if you look at the specs, the Dell 2005FP beats the 20" Apple Cinema Display hands down. Let's Compare, shall we.

Apple: 20" Viewable, 1680x1050 resolution, 250 cd/m2 brightness, 300:1 contrast ratio, DVI, 2x Firewire 400, 2x USB 2.0, $1299

Dell: 20.1" Viewable, 1680x1050 resolution, 300 cd/m2 brightness, 400:1 contrast ratio, VGA, DVI, S-Video, Composite, 4xUSB 2.0, $799 List, but can be found for as little as $599

You tell me which one is the better deal.

Right on! Even my 2001FP has revised specs packed with it that shows 500:1 contrast ratio.

cmvsm
Dec 19, 2004, 08:52 PM
I don't know (and don't feel like searching) for a Dell and Apple article. What I do know is that if you look at the specs, the Dell 2005FP beats the 20" Apple Cinema Display hands down. Let's Compare, shall we.

Apple: 20" Viewable, 1680x1050 resolution, 250 cd/m2 brightness, 300:1 contrast ratio, DVI, 2x Firewire 400, 2x USB 2.0, $1299

Dell: 20.1" Viewable, 1680x1050 resolution, 300 cd/m2 brightness, 400:1 contrast ratio, VGA, DVI, S-Video, Composite, 4xUSB 2.0, $799 List, but can be found for as little as $599

You tell me which one is the better deal.


Specs tell you only part of the story. I could give you some great "specs" on an Intel Xeon DP 2.4Ghz machine, but we all know that the dual 2.0 G5 smokes it on the spot in just about every app. This of course is despite the specs that you see on the processor. Not to say that the Dell isn't a good monitor, as it has gotten great reviews. I'm simply saying the Apple 20" Cinema Display (plastic enclosure), of which I just bought a second one for $799...is much better in terms of price versus performance.

Abstract
Dec 19, 2004, 09:40 PM
^^ You realize how wrong you are, correct? ;)

Dell uses, or used LG in the past, like Apple. Dell isn't getting what Apple rejects. They're just selling the same or better, but at a lower cost.

Your shpeal concerning colour reproduction accuracy would be true if there was a difference, but there isn't. There aren't too many LCD producers in this world, and I doubt Dell is getting sabatoged LCDs that purposely don't produce accurate colour so that Apple gets the accurately coloured LCDs to allow Apple to sell them for more.

You may be getting your money's worth on your Apple display(s), but you'd be getting even MORE with your money by purchasing from Dell. I may not like their computers, but their LCDs are quite good, and at least I can be objective.

Capt Underpants
Dec 19, 2004, 09:42 PM
Apple 20" Cinema Display (plastic enclosure), of which I just bought a second one for $799...is much better in terms of price versus performance.

How can you say that the old cinema display is better price versus performance? You bought an old Apple monitor for the same price(and sometimes more expensive price, depending on coupons) as a new dell monitor, and it has half of the features! A 16 Ms response time is a 16 Ms response time no matter which way you cut it. The Dell will always have more ports than your old 20" display. I don't see how your old cinema display has better "price versus performance".

cmvsm
Dec 21, 2004, 12:00 AM
The "old" Apple monitor is better than the new in my book. Matter of fact, its the last PRO monitor that they produced. Many of the reviews can attest to that including PC Magazine.

In terms of 16ms response time...I'm assuming your talking about gaming performance..yawn..again. Buy a PC and CRT and be happy.

More ports than that Apple? That may be so and if you use them that much, then you must need the Dell. Take a look at all of your ports right now and tell me how full they are. I'm curious to know.

Look, metaphorically speaking, if you want to put the $99 Maaco Sunday special paint job on a newly restored 67' vette, then by all means go for it!! Whatever floats your boat! :eek:

jxyama
Dec 21, 2004, 08:14 AM
The "old" Apple monitor is better than the new in my book. Matter of fact, its the last PRO monitor that they produced. Many of the reviews can attest to that including PC Magazine.

In terms of 16ms response time...I'm assuming your talking about gaming performance..yawn..again. Buy a PC and CRT and be happy.

More ports than that Apple? That may be so and if you use them that much, then you must need the Dell. Take a look at all of your ports right now and tell me how full they are. I'm curious to know.

Look, metaphorically speaking, if you want to put the $99 Maaco Sunday special paint job on a newly restored 67' vette, then by all means go for it!! Whatever floats your boat! :eek:

come on, guys are posting facts to prove their point - and you are just ignoring them.

"I'm assuming your (sic) talking about gaming performance..yawn..again." "Take a look at all of your ports right now and tell me how full they are." :rolleyes: it doesn't matter that you find gaming boring or that don't use all the ports. these guys listed facts that shows dell monitor to be better spec'ed. you can't argue contrast ratio or brightness. those are hard numbers.

16 ms is, i believe, the TFT response time. they are pretty much the same for all LCDs - because there are only finite number of LCD manufacturers. apple and dell do not own their LCD fabs - they get their plates from the same place.

your metaphor makes no sense. dell monitor uses the same LCD plate as apple's and there's no spec that is better about apple's as opposed to dell's. if dell monitor is a "restored '67 vette" then so is apple's.

a better metaphor would be comparing a high-end camry that is cheaper but better spec'ed to a low-end lexus that is more expensive. right now, you are arguing that just because camry has a toyota logo and not a lexus one, it's worse than lexus, even though they are both made by toyota and the hard specs are in camry's favor.

you can like the lexus better - whatever floats your boat - but arguing one is more superior than the other without any fact to back it up is rather pointless.

Capt Underpants
Dec 21, 2004, 09:31 AM
More ports than that Apple? That may be so and if you use them that much, then you must need the Dell. Take a look at all of your ports right now and tell me how full they are. I'm curious to know.

I don't even have the monitor, I'm simply knowledgeable enough to know which one is the better deal, and which one performs better! It's a no brainer, so to speak!

You only addressed response time! How do you explain the better brightness and contrast ratios? Maybe those are just for gamers, too? Maybe it's a pointless argument, because even when the facts are given to you, you still think you're right. You are wrong. [/discussion]

cmvsm
Dec 21, 2004, 01:28 PM
I don't even have the monitor, I'm simply knowledgeable enough to know which one is the better deal, and which one performs better! It's a no brainer, so to speak![/discussion]

Again, value is in the perception of the buyer. As I stated before, specs given by the manufacturer are not always definitive. That's like saying that every television you buy that displays resolutions for HDTV is equivalent. We all know this is untrue. Besides, Capt. Underpants doesn't even own the monitor in which he argues for. Give me a break.

Capt Underpants
Dec 21, 2004, 01:41 PM
Again, value is in the perception of the buyer. As I stated before, specs given by the manufacturer are not always definitive. That's like saying that every television you buy that displays resolutions for HDTV is equivalent. We all know this is untrue. Besides, Capt. Underpants doesn't even own the monitor in which he argues for. Give me a break.

I think you're just mad because you bought an inferior monitor for $799 when you could've bought a better monitor for much less.

jxyama
Dec 21, 2004, 01:41 PM

Counterfit
Dec 21, 2004, 02:03 PM
Can we at least agree that Apple's 23" display > Dells 20.1"? :D

Capt Underpants
Dec 21, 2004, 02:36 PM
Can we at least agree that Apple's 23" display > Dells 20.1"? :D

If only it was that easy...

Converted2Truth
Dec 21, 2004, 03:13 PM
While the Dell monitor is better, I would never buy it. I'd buy from some other third party like Samsung. I don't want to join the Dell herd, and my wife won't let anything with the word, 'DELL' in our residence... even advertisements. It's too bad they don't sell these monitors without the logo :rolleyes:

Also, I work in computer labs full of Dell LCD's. They're nice, but the paint on the buttons is already chipping off. They aren't even 1 year old yet. Sure, the picture is still nice, but the rest of the display looks like trash already. it's kindof a shame too... nice monitor surrounded by cheap plastic and VERY cheap paint.

cmvsm
Dec 21, 2004, 06:59 PM
I think you're just mad because you bought an inferior monitor for $799 when you could've bought a better monitor for much less.


LOL...right. I think you are just argumentative and "trying" to be annoying simply because you look at a 15" screen all day. Nice try... :D When you decide to hook that baby up to a real monitor, then we'll talk. Otherwise, keep dreaming about it...Dell...Apple...whatever... :)

Capt Underpants
Dec 21, 2004, 08:18 PM
LOL...right. I think you are just argumentative and "trying" to be annoying simply because you look at a 15" screen all day. Nice try... :D When you decide to hook that baby up to a real monitor, then we'll talk. Otherwise, keep dreaming about it...Dell...Apple...whatever... :)

Jxyama and I have tried to get the facts straight, but you still argue against them. If you want to think your old apple monitor with 230 cd/m2 brightness, and a 350:1 contrast ratio is better than a dell monitor with 300 cd/m2 brightness and 600:1 contrast ratio, that's your deal (and an incorrect deal at that).

And I look at a 12" screen when I'm on my computer, not a 15" screen (duh, it's a 12" PB). I was being argumentative because you were acting stubborn. To be honest, I'm tired of arguing with you. It gets this discussion nowhere, especially when your facts aren't straight. Once you get it right, then we'll talk.

DELL MONITOR > APPLE MONITOR [/thread]

Peace

cmvsm
Dec 21, 2004, 11:55 PM
Jxyama and I have tried to get the facts straight, but you still argue against them. If you want to think your old apple monitor with 230 cd/m2 brightness, and a 350:1 contrast ratio is better than a dell monitor with 300 cd/m2 brightness and 600:1 contrast ratio, that's your deal (and an incorrect deal at that).

And I look at a 12" screen when I'm on my computer, not a 15" screen (duh, it's a 12" PB). I was being argumentative because you were acting stubborn. To be honest, I'm tired of arguing with you. It gets this discussion nowhere, especially when your facts aren't straight. Once you get it right, then we'll talk.

DELL MONITOR > APPLE MONITOR [/thread]

Peace

How bout....when you OWN one or the other...then maybe you can carry on a knowledgeable conversation. I really don't care which one you buy, just as long as you've actually used it. Can you imagine someone reviewing a piece of hardware but never having actually used it to base their review? Right...that would get a lot of play. Oh yeah, I almost forgot..that's what you are doing.... :eek:

Peace... :)

maya
Dec 22, 2004, 01:00 AM
Both displays are made by LG.

Apple has the following going for it:

Design, construction and neat touch sensitive button on the side.


Dell has the following going for it:

Price, and a little higher specs.

In closing we have to remember just because something has better specs that its good for everyone. Some people have sensitive eyes and the brighter screen are horrid on they eyes. Some however welcome the higher brightness and contrast. I my self have worked on many display sizes from 10" to 30"+ and I do not like an lcd too bright since the setting is always on the lowest for my eye comfort.

If one prefer one display over the other great just be happy with your purchase and that it has no dead pixels.

No need to argue since some people look at price point some people look towards they decor. We are all different. If I could but the Dell display and remove the casing and replaces it with something else I would however I cannot, plus I do not want a large display at present. :)

cmvsm
Dec 22, 2004, 10:49 AM
I agree Maya! :)

edesignuk
Dec 22, 2004, 11:17 AM
I'd love to argue the case for why you'd have to be either mad, or plain stinking rich to buy the Apple over the Dell...but from what I see it's not worth my breath. I don't give a **** if someone else decides to spend over the odds for a screen, when you can get a screen that is equal to it, if not better for much less...hey ho.

Capt Underpants
Dec 22, 2004, 03:24 PM
I'd love to argue the case for why you'd have to be either mad, or plain stinking rich to buy the Apple over the Dell...but from what I see it's not worth my breath. I don't give a **** if someone else decides to spend over the odds for a screen, when you can get a screen that is equal to it, if not better for much less...hey ho.

Hey, you can feel free to argue. I've had enough of it...

Good luck!

psycho bob
Dec 22, 2004, 03:54 PM
Bottom line is apart from the 30inch, which is a whole different ball game, apple have ballsed up with the new aluminium displays. So many style concious people were screaming for them last year and rushed out and bought them upon release. End of the day quality just doesn't justify the price. They are perhaps the first apple product in a long time where style is at the sacrifice of quality. The aluminium enclosures put so much pressure on the panels that if they aren't fitted 100% correctly you get discolouration and distortion. You can get equal or better quality displays at lower costs with more features. Some people argue that apple have SWOP certification but you still need to calibrate them and any display these days will give accurate results once this is done for years of use until parts start to wear.
If you disregard specs for a moment the plastic cinema displays were far superior to the ones that replaced them. Once apple dumped the ADC connector they lost one of the unique points and had to compete on the mainstream. So far the move to DVI has brought no real advantage unless you are a PC user. The GPU situation on the mac is still a disgrace. Adding a firwire hub is good but still means another connector to attach to your computer and where is the second DVI connector or S-Video input?
These displays will continue to appeal to those that seek only style, for those that recognise them for what they are and value money then there are far better elsewhere.

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 22, 2004, 06:02 PM
Bottom line is apart from the 30inch, which is a whole different ball game, apple have ballsed up with the new aluminium displays. So many style concious people were screaming for them last year and rushed out and bought them upon release. End of the day quality just doesn't justify the price. They are perhaps the first apple product in a long time where style is at the sacrifice of quality. The aluminium enclosures put so much pressure on the panels that if they aren't fitted 100% correctly you get discolouration and distortion. You can get equal or better quality displays at lower costs with more features. Some people argue that apple have SWOP certification but you still need to calibrate them and any display these days will give accurate results once this is done for years of use until parts start to wear.
If you disregard specs for a moment the plastic cinema displays were far superior to the ones that replaced them. Once apple dumped the ADC connector they lost one of the unique points and had to compete on the mainstream. So far the move to DVI has brought no real advantage unless you are a PC user. The GPU situation on the mac is still a disgrace. Adding a firwire hub is good but still means another connector to attach to your computer and where is the second DVI connector or S-Video input?
These displays will continue to appeal to those that seek only style, for those that recognise them for what they are and value money then there are far better elsewhere.

Amen, for me the display equals the output on my Epson 2200 printer.

maya
Dec 22, 2004, 10:54 PM
I'd love to argue the case for why you'd have to be either mad, or plain stinking rich to buy the Apple over the Dell...but from what I see it's not worth my breath. I don't give a **** if someone else decides to spend over the odds for a screen, when you can get a screen that is equal to it, if not better for much less...hey ho.

edesignuk, you and the rest are missing the point, to some Specs mean everything in the word to some the casing means a certain bit as well. If your eyes are sensitive to the bright displays what is the point of having a high contrast and brightness ratio. Some Apple branded displays and other manufacture branded displays are just way to bright for my eyes and I have people around me who also complain about this point. And this is with the brightness at the lowest setting.

Some people like a well rounded display with good design and decent specs, some prefer a the price point and higher specs. It is not brain science it quite simple buy what appeals to you, if you have the money go for it.

In the end when the display is off and visitor walks in your house they would praise an Apple display or computer compared to a Dell. If good looking things do not mean anything to you great no need to snub people here about they purchases, since I am sure you can buy a sofa set for cheap, with comfortable cushions and looks terrible and covered in cloth or you could buy a leather one that cost more and looks better. How many people who visit your house would wish you well on a cloth sofa. :rolleyes:

As I have stated before if you have the money great if you don't look else where I see no reason to argue this point longer specs do not mean the world to everyone since the tech industry is always going to get better for cheaper however in the end if something appeals to you and you are happy that is what matters.

I could spend less on a Dell Display that is manufactured by LG with better specs however in the end the casing look ugly and cheap I would not be happy with it. This same rule comes down to the iPod and mini, since other companies make more featured portable HDD music players however the iPod which has a rotten battery life, no colour screen (except iPod Photo) and the list goes on still does well since IT JUST WORKS and ITS APPEALING.

No need to point finger it just makes some people look and come across as being jealous, I am sure if money was not an issue you would buy a PMG5 dual 2.5GHz over any AMD machine and would also buy 2 30" ACD even though the Dell ones are cheaper and have better specs.

Do not be a hypocrite? :rolleyes: :)

maya
Dec 22, 2004, 10:58 PM
Amen, for me the display equals the output on my Epson 2200 printer.

This is an utter retarded comment. You are comparing an LCD to a Printer. :rolleyes:


I am sure if someone gave you a choice between a 20" ACD and a 20" Dell display for you to have for free you would choose the Apple any day for the looks and given you are getting it for free you would not think twice.

You people sound like hypocrites. On this note why even buy a Mac why not buy a better spec'd PC for cheap and use Windows or Linspire (Lindows).

People are never grateful for what they have and can afford always trying to put another party down. :rolleyes:

maya
Dec 22, 2004, 11:00 PM
Hey, you can feel free to argue. I've had enough of it...

Good luck!


In the end if you can afford it you will always want something that looks good to the naked eye from afar, saying otherwise is just plain BS and you know that.

I do not need to explain human evolution to you now same applies for technology since guess who buys them. ;) :)

Abstract
Dec 23, 2004, 12:04 AM
I don't even see the point of arguing anymore. I made a point a long time ago, many others have backed it up and then added even more "enlightenment", but it doesn't seem to stick.
The Dell monitor is better than the Apple displays, plain and simple. I don't even think it's refutable. If the stats are wrong or something, they're not THAT far off that someone could say that the Dell and Apple displays are equally good. If you have sensitive eyes, turn down the brightness on the Dell.


I am sure if someone gave you a choice between a 20" ACD and a 20" Dell display for you to have for free you would choose the Apple any day for the looks and given you are getting it for free you would not think twice.



I'd take the Dell. Sort of messes up your point, doesn't it. ;)

maya
Dec 23, 2004, 12:20 AM
I'd take the Dell. Sort of messes up your point, doesn't it. ;)

Right. :rolleyes: NOT, hypocrite a free ADC 20". You must be a fool indeed. :)

I don't even see the point of arguing anymore. I made a point a long time ago, many others have backed it up and then added even more "enlightenment", but it doesn't seem to stick.
The Dell monitor is better than the Apple displays, plain and simple. I don't even think it's refutable. If the stats are wrong or something, they're not THAT far off that someone could say that the Dell and Apple displays are equally good. If you have sensitive eyes, turn down the brightness on the Dell.


Read with me the current ADC even with the lowest settings are also too bright for me, however does a monitor with a higher ratio help. You confused or are you only comparing part for part. What stands out more and why do you think so many companies design a nice looking frame because the spec's count. You must be living in a cave. As long as the packaging looks nice that is what counts and the spec's decent.

You sound like a liar and the ::wink:: in your statement proves it as so. :)

I bet M. Dell has a PMG5 2.5GHz with a ADC at home like B.Gates, they have the money you do not so keep looking for the best deal if you cannot have the pretty package. ;) :)

Abstract
Dec 23, 2004, 12:34 AM
Okay, I lied.

I'd take the Apple display for free, sell it, and buy a Dell LCD. Style isn't even worth $500 Cdn to me, let alone $500 USD.

edesignuk
Dec 23, 2004, 04:01 AM
edesignuk, <blah, blah>
Do not be a hypocrite? :rolleyes: :)As I said in the frist place, not even gonna waste my breath.

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 23, 2004, 07:20 AM
edesignuk, you and the rest are missing the point, to some Specs mean everything in the word to some the casing means a certain bit as well. If your eyes are sensitive to the bright displays what is the point of having a high contrast and brightness ratio. Some Apple branded displays and other manufacture branded displays are just way to bright for my eyes and I have people around me who also complain about this point. And this is with the brightness at the lowest setting.

Some people like a well rounded display with good design and decent specs, some prefer a the price point and higher specs. It is not brain science it quite simple buy what appeals to you, if you have the money go for it.

In the end when the display is off and visitor walks in your house they would praise an Apple display or computer compared to a Dell. If good looking things do not mean anything to you great no need to snub people here about they purchases, since I am sure you can buy a sofa set for cheap, with comfortable cushions and looks terrible and covered in cloth or you could buy a leather one that cost more and looks better. How many people who visit your house would wish you well on a cloth sofa. :rolleyes:

As I have stated before if you have the money great if you don't look else where I see no reason to argue this point longer specs do not mean the world to everyone since the tech industry is always going to get better for cheaper however in the end if something appeals to you and you are happy that is what matters.

I could spend less on a Dell Display that is manufactured by LG with better specs however in the end the casing look ugly and cheap I would not be happy with it. This same rule comes down to the iPod and mini, since other companies make more featured portable HDD music players however the iPod which has a rotten battery life, no colour screen (except iPod Photo) and the list goes on still does well since IT JUST WORKS and ITS APPEALING.

No need to point finger it just makes some people look and come across as being jealous, I am sure if money was not an issue you would buy a PMG5 dual 2.5GHz over any AMD machine and would also buy 2 30" ACD even though the Dell ones are cheaper and have better specs.

Do not be a hypocrite? :rolleyes: :)

You have good points. Though if the Apple displays offered something more for the price as the iPods do, it would be a different discussion. For those that are in production of printed materials the SWOP certification of the Apple monitors is worth the price of admission.

Though my recent experience with a print house is that the standard today for most is pleasing color. So if what I see on the monitor is pleasing and and what I get in print is , then we are both happy.

For myself, there is little reason to go with the Apple displays over some of the others. Some IMO have taken too serriously Job's words that Apple only gets the best LCD's and everyone else gets the left overs.

In the end it is a matter of pride for those of us that went away from Apple. Maybe I read differently from what you intended, but where is the condemnation of those that feel that the only way to go is the higher priced unit, while discounting those that can do better else where. It reminds me of the Cimmiron that was based on the Calviler back so many years ago.

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 23, 2004, 07:34 AM
This is an utter retarded comment. You are comparing an LCD to a Printer. :rolleyes:


I am sure if someone gave you a choice between a 20" ACD and a 20" Dell display for you to have for free you would choose the Apple any day for the looks and given you are getting it for free you would not think twice.

You people sound like hypocrites. On this note why even buy a Mac why not buy a better spec'd PC for cheap and use Windows or Linspire (Lindows).

People are never grateful for what they have and can afford always trying to put another party down. :rolleyes:

Sorry to ruffle your feathers. We have Apple displays at my job, and the colors and contrast I see between them and my Dell 2001FP are hard pressed to see a difference to my eyes.

If Apple or Dell gave me a monitor for free I would be happy with either. But since it is my money, I would rather not over spend if I don't have to. Yes, to some I spent more on my PB than comparable PC notebooks. But OSX and other factors outweighed the PC world. People like yourself have yet to really make a clear cut discussion of why the Apple monitors are worth the extra dollars for the rest of us.

maya
Dec 23, 2004, 01:27 PM
Sorry to ruffle your feathers. We have Apple displays at my job, and the colors and contrast I see between them and my Dell 2001FP are hard pressed to see a difference to my eyes.

If Apple or Dell gave me a monitor for free I would be happy with either. But since it is my money, I would rather not over spend if I don't have to. Yes, to some I spent more on my PB than comparable PC notebooks. But OSX and other factors outweighed the PC world. People like yourself have yet to really make a clear cut discussion of why the Apple monitors are worth the extra dollars for the rest of us.

I have never stated that Apple is right for charging such a high price on they displays I only stated that some people do not mind paying the price for a better casing and as long as the components are decent. Then we also have to factor in that Apple only releases HW and refreshes every so often on the other hand other x86 companies release on a faster refresh rate so if Apple had one of the best looking and decent display when it was released it is obvious that the components or a competitor would out do them that is the "tech industry".

If I could change the casing on the Dell I would, however as I have stated that some people like beautiful looking pieces of work in they house and do not mind the price look no further than ART. Then again its something some might call worth it while other will say not for that price its all a matter of opinion some people like a well rounded objects some look at they pocket book.

If you want the higher spec'd be happy with your purchase and no insult others for they purchases if they want to spend a little extra that is coming from they pocket book and not yours.

its all a matter of opinion :)

maya
Dec 23, 2004, 01:30 PM
As I said in the frist place, not even gonna waste my breath.

Yet you still decided to place in your 2 cents. :rolleyes: :)


sure edesignuk if someone gave you a 20" ADC for free or at the same price of the Dell you would take it any day, stating otherwise is being hypocritical. :)

maya
Dec 23, 2004, 01:33 PM
Okay, I lied.

I'd take the Apple display for free, sell it, and buy a Dell LCD. Style isn't even worth $500 Cdn to me, let alone $500 USD.

I am sure you do not reside in the Yorkdale area then, maybe Scarborough. ;)

That explains the need for to sell and the need to buy something cheaper. ROTF :)


BE HAPPY WITH YOUR PURCHASE AND NOT PUT DOWN PEOPLE IN REGARDS TO THEIRS, no one gives a hoot if one is better as long as you are happy, since technology will always improve and what you bought today will be cheaper tomorrow and out done. So why complain. :)

Abstract
Dec 24, 2004, 03:56 AM
I am sure you do not reside in the Yorkdale area then, maybe Scarborough. ;)

That explains the need for to sell and the need to buy something cheaper. ROTF :)


BE HAPPY WITH YOUR PURCHASE AND NOT PUT DOWN PEOPLE IN REGARDS TO THEIRS, no one gives a hoot if one is better as long as you are happy, since technology will always improve and what you bought today will be cheaper tomorrow and out done. So why complain. :)

So your're idea of not putting people down is to tell me that I'm poorer than you because I don't live in the Yorkdale area, you tight-ass snob??

Apple can see people like you coming, open wallets and all. Paying an extra $700 Cdn simply for style...... wow, how mighty of you. Compensating for the lack of personality?

If I'm given an Apple display and I decide to sell it, it wouldn't be because I need to get the cheaper display and pocket the rest of the cash I get from the sale. It's because I'd rather have a better display and don't need the Apple sitting around. LCDs aren't exactly known for performing well in a brightly lit room. Dell's monitor is better if you see sunlight shine through your window sometimes, which apparently you don't. Selling it isn't a bad idea, and I don't need you to tell me how poor I must be since I would sell it.

Funny thing is that I'm not remotely close to being poor. I'm not poor now, and I'll never be poor. I just don't like snobs, especially not ones who spend 80% more for something just because a guest at your home may see it and be impressed by you and how well compensate for your "shortcomings", as if you just did something amazing by purchasing a mass-produced product by a company that's known around the world. Wow, pat yourself on the back.

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 24, 2004, 06:16 AM
I have never stated that Apple is right for charging such a high price on they displays I only stated that some people do not mind paying the price for a better casing and as long as the components are decent. Then we also have to factor in that Apple only releases HW and refreshes every so often on the other hand other x86 companies release on a faster refresh rate so if Apple had one of the best looking and decent display when it was released it is obvious that the components or a competitor would out do them that is the "tech industry".

If I could change the casing on the Dell I would, however as I have stated that some people like beautiful looking pieces of work in they house and do not mind the price look no further than ART. Then again its something some might call worth it while other will say not for that price its all a matter of opinion some people like a well rounded objects some look at they pocket book.

If you want the higher spec'd be happy with your purchase and no insult others for they purchases if they want to spend a little extra that is coming from they pocket book and not yours.

its all a matter of opinion :)

Sorry for misunderstanding where you were coming from.

The only thing that bothers me about the Dell design is that Dell logo on the front. :D

Hope that I never came across as insulting others for the choice of the Apple display. The only point that I made comment on is Job's statement that Apple uses only the best of the LCD's, and everyone else gets the leftovers. I find this hard to accept. Nice sound-bite, but I doubt that there is real meat behind the statement.

It is that Apple displays are SWOP certified that make their displays standout from many others. And that certification costs $. And that is passed on to the consumer. For some of us in the DTP arena are happy with the "pleasing color" standard that is now being used by some shops for printing.