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View Full Version : Apple Cuts Corners on Cinema HD Display 23/20


Philoman
Dec 19, 2004, 03:24 AM
I purchased a Cinema HD Display (Aluminum) a few days ago and I was very disappointed after using it. I feel that every year, Apple is cutting corners in quality one way or another.

First, toward the left side of the screen, the contrast level dramatically drops. And also toward the right edge of the screen. The center retains the most of the contrast. Here is how you can test this on your Cinema 20/23. Launch Safari. Then open the download window - Command-Option-L or Window the choose Downloads. Once the downloads window is opened, enlarge the download window vertically until you see the white and blue rows. Now drag the window to the center and observe the contrast level between the white and blue band. Then drag the download window toward the left edge of the screen and you will notice the white and blue contrast level drop and the border between the two colors become faint. Therefore, the white and blue band will be almost the same color. This is not acceptable for a product that comes from Apple at this price. Even at under $1000, it is not acceptable.

Second, I also noticed ghosting of the closed window. on the desktop after closing a window or a document. This should not happen on a $2000 Apple product.

Third, I also see the pink tinting even after adjusting the display.

I must say that the space gain over the 20 inch Display is great especially when I'm working with lots of pallets and multiple apps. Also like the fact that this monitor tilts vertically over the previous Displays where the display can not be turned completely vertical. I also like the shorter edges around the LCD screen.

However, I will regretfully return this monitor. All the pluses are great but the actual LCD has to be better quality than what it is now. That is what i expect from Apple. I own a 20 Cinema Display with the plastic body. I think that was the best quality LCD I have seen from Apple to this date.

I really wished that Apple used a better LCD for this 23 Cinema HD Displays. They maybe brighter over the last model, but that is far from an improvement over the last with the the pink cast and uneven contrast issues. Good design is welcomed but better quality component is far greater than just good looks.

Facts: The last Cinema screens were made in Korea and Taiwan. The current ones are made in China. The 30" are still made in Korea.

PHARAOHk
Dec 19, 2004, 03:35 AM
Did you calibrate it at all?

Philoman
Dec 19, 2004, 04:05 AM
Did you calibrate it at all?

yes i did the calibration. I helps but does not completely solve the problem. this is more apparent with the previous 20 inch Studio Display next to it.

iGary
Dec 19, 2004, 06:06 AM
Why don't you exchange it?

Timelessblur
Dec 19, 2004, 08:26 AM
well the ghosting is more understandble but that because apple is blasicly lieing like crazing on it monitor specs. mainly because it 20 or 16 ms responds time just is not currently possible on monitors that large. considering other major compainis are stuggling to get there 20in lcd down to that range.

There are a ton of ways to fudge the numbers and apple has a long history of fudging there numbers a little

mfacey
Dec 19, 2004, 09:04 AM
well the ghosting is more understandble but that because apple is blasicly lieing like crazing on it monitor specs. mainly because it 20 or 16 ms responds time just is not currently possible on monitors that large. considering other major compainis are stuggling to get there 20in lcd down to that range.

There are a ton of ways to fudge the numbers and apple has a long history of fudging there numbers a little


I somehow have my doubts this is true. A company cannot simply list specs that are in no way true. Do you have any kind of evidence to support your claims? Somebody has to be the first to achieve new heights in this technology!

I'd head to your nearest apple store and have a talk with the tech support guys there to troubleshoot the problem.

Good luck!

maya
Dec 19, 2004, 09:31 AM
I would not be surprised if you were having this issue with a 20" display however a 23".

Not sure if you have a new PMG5 or a PMG4 so you can test both your NEW and PREVIOUS displays on both machines to render out the CPU Tower in this case.

The pink tint could just be a defect, I have noticed that one of my Apple notebooks has a pink/red tint to it and this is after calibrating be assure that its almost 5 years and has been used everyday during that time. The tint is not noticeable on a colour background only if the there is a solid gray background.

Response time is what it says it is on those displays since Steve Jobs has stated during a Keynote that Apple buys the best lcd panels that a given company has to offer on top of that is goes through certification.

Your contrast and brightness issue might just be a damaged component, its happen during shipping since the 20" iMac G5 and some 17" displays also have similar related issues.

Ghosting could be related to the same issue at stated above, since I have never had any issues with Apple displays on a notebook or desktop. Some defective products happen in the process of shipping or temperature change with a combination of other factors.

I say talk it back get it exchanged if this happens 3 times in a row then draw up the conclusion that the there is a drop in quality.

Hope everything works out well for you in the end. :)

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 19, 2004, 11:08 AM
Since Apple claims that they get the best panels, and the rest goes to everyone else - it seems that you might have a defective display. My new Dell 2001FP doesn't seem to have any issues like you mention.

Timelessblur
Dec 19, 2004, 11:35 AM
I somehow have my doubts this is true. A company cannot simply list specs that are in no way true. Do you have any kind of evidence to support your claims? Somebody has to be the first to achieve new heights in this technology!

I'd head to your nearest apple store and have a talk with the tech support guys there to troubleshoot the problem.

Good luck!


well a good example of apple bsing it constumers is in it new imac and there claims on the speed boost in games.

but for fudging the numbers yes there are ways to impove those as well with out techacly lieing. For respond time the way it message is not fully standized. It can be message several ways. one is black white black, or White black white (dont remeber if it was lead with black or with). Other times they used a shade of grey instead of black to impove the numbers. A third opation is it some color to another color then back and that can help impoved numbers as well. Tomshardware has a nice artical in there on one of there LCD test explaining the little meaning in a lot of the so call manufactors specs.

As for apples numbers I put extermly little faith in them because of apples long history of fudging there numbers much more most manfactors to make them look better. (and yes apple been sued and lost of it before in there paston one campian i can remeber wehre they stated there computers where fastest in the market) And it just not possible to get the 23in or larger down as low as they are saying explielty when all the comptivers (even the compainy that are MAKING apple pannels are not pulling those numbers on there 20 in lcds. The comptign 23in lcd are doing 40ms responds time and they gap bettween that on and apples number is really kind of large to be buyble. But apple zelots are the dumb ones out there who take everything apples says as gospel and believe Apple has NEVER lies.

ravenvii
Dec 19, 2004, 11:49 AM
Look around a bit. You'll see plenty of 20" LCDs that have 16 and even 12 ms of response time. Apple isn't the unique one. And please note that Apple's display is WIDESCREEN. That eschews with the diagonal measurements a bit - the 20" is actually more of a widened 17". So you can't really compare it with non-widescreen 20" LCDs either.

Do your research before you mouth off, mmmkay?

haiggy
Dec 19, 2004, 11:53 AM
well a good example of apple bsing it constumers is in it new imac and there claims on the speed boost in games.

but for fudging the numbers yes there are ways to impove those as well with out techacly lieing. For respond time the way it message is not fully standized. It can be message several ways. one is black white black, or White black white (dont remeber if it was lead with black or with). Other times they used a shade of grey instead of black to impove the numbers. A third opation is it some color to another color then back and that can help impoved numbers as well. Tomshardware has a nice artical in there on one of there LCD test explaining the little meaning in a lot of the so call manufactors specs.

As for apples numbers I put extermly little faith in them because of apples long history of fudging there numbers much more most manfactors to make them look better. (and yes apple been sued and lost of it before in there paston one campian i can remeber wehre they stated there computers where fastest in the market) And it just not possible to get the 23in or larger down as low as they are saying explielty when all the comptivers (even the compainy that are MAKING apple pannels are not pulling those numbers on there 20 in lcds. The comptign 23in lcd are doing 40ms responds time and they gap bettween that on and apples number is really kind of large to be buyble. But apple zelots are the dumb ones out there who take everything apples says as gospel and believe Apple has NEVER lies.


That might have been more effective if people could actually have read it... :confused:

Timelessblur
Dec 19, 2004, 12:03 PM
ahh people hate stuff that shows apple's flaws. btw you learn to deal with dyselixia and them come back and insult me because I may be weak at writing but when it come to smarts knowleged and integents plus a vaste wealth of random infomation I have you beat

btw the 16ms and less 20in displays they dont have 16.7 mil colors and respon ds time is limited by the number of pixils. I buy the apple 20 inch number but going up to 23 inch is a lot harder to buy

psycho bob
Dec 19, 2004, 01:35 PM
I have to admit I am disappointed at the reviews apples new LCD's have got. The 30in seems to be a great monitor although not suitable for the usual apple target market due to its slow response times, at least according to the reviews so far.
I have 17in and 20in clear displays and the 20 is by far the best monitor I have ever seen. All those people who wanted aluminium displays must surely be eating those words now. This seems to be one of those cases where apple have produced a great looking product which is flawed. The aluminium case puts so much pressure on the LCD panel if it isn't fitted 100% correctly that colour consistency and lighting issues are bound to be problems. Apple just needs to work on the mounting system but short of checking every monitor I fail to see what they can do other then redesign the enclosure.
I feel quality is more important than looks when it comes to something as vital to work flow as a monitor so will be on the look out for another clear plastic 20.

maya
Dec 19, 2004, 01:57 PM
I have to admit I am disappointed at the reviews apples new LCD's have got. The 30in seems to be a great monitor although not suitable for the usual apple target market due to its slow response times, at least according to the reviews so far.
I have 17in and 20in clear displays and the 20 is by far the best monitor I have ever seen. All those people who wanted aluminium displays must surely be eating those words now. This seems to be one of those cases where apple have produced a great looking product which is flawed. The aluminium case puts so much pressure on the LCD panel if it isn't fitted 100% correctly that colour consistency and lighting issues are bound to be problems. Apple just needs to work on the mounting system but short of checking every monitor I fail to see what they can do other then redesign the enclosure.
I feel quality is more important than looks when it comes to something as vital to work flow as a monitor so will be on the look out for another clear plastic 20.

Formac has some nice 20" lcd screen however they are not wide-screen and I have heard people complain about they customer service, though they have a very competitive price and feature list. :)

psycho bob
Dec 19, 2004, 02:31 PM
Yeah Formac seem to offer good quality for your pound (or whatever currency you use :) ) and have hopefully sorted out the support issues they had a year or so ago.
I've just got so used to working with widescreen monitors that I can't imagine working on anything else. The Onyx Formac screen does look very nice though.

diamond geezer
Dec 19, 2004, 03:50 PM
Macfixit reported that many people had complained about "pink" issues with the new displays. I have seen it myself with 2 x 20" display running of a G5. One was much pinker than the other and calibrating didn't help.

The display in question was sent back to Apple under warranty.

jaromski
Dec 19, 2004, 04:11 PM
you know my dad just bought the new 23" cinema display and he had some really bad pink tint problems. and it wasn't a universal pink tint across his whole panel, it would get worse as you went from right to left. the left side was particularly bad. he had to bitch to apple for quite some time before they would take it back to fix it.

well he got it back and it is much better than before but he still has the pink tint show up a little when he uses the monitor for prolonged periods of time (e.g. over 4 hours or so) i wonder if it is a heat issue?

now i myself have the old school 23" cinema display and i had my own mishap. the left-most panel would intermittently shoot green. but i sent it back to apple right away and i have had it now for over 2 years without any other problems.

so it was a bit finicky at first but now it is great. and the color is perfect. you should send that sucker back and get an old one. they have more reliable panels and can be had for a few hundred cheaper.

also dell has a 20" lcd for under $800 that is supposed to be pretty killer. may as well go dell, i mean they get their panels from the same toadies anywayz. and they go on special from time to time you can get them for ~640 USD.

jaromski

wdlove
Dec 19, 2004, 06:53 PM
Just from reading the problems with the Cinema Display here on the forums, I would definitely take mine into my local Apple Store. It never hurts to get an experts opinion. That is what the warranty if for, peace of mind.

broken_keyboard
Dec 19, 2004, 07:43 PM
Philoman is right here. I used to have a 20" Cinema which could be used by a pro. When the Alu came out I upgraded to the 23" but they are no longer a pro product for all the reasons he stated which are spot on.

Apple doesn't sell pro monitors anymore. It's a fact.