Mac OS "Journaled" or not on SSD? [Archive]

johnnymg

Sep 17, 2010, 10:54 AM

Hi,

Quick question: Should I format journaled or not journaled for a OWC 120GB SSD drive?

see you,
Chris.

Start here ........... although I'm betting there will be more suggestions:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1410

2contagious

Sep 17, 2010, 11:12 AM

I chose Mac OS Extended (Journaled). It's how I formatted my HDDs, but what I am asking myself is if this is the best way to format an SSD.

johnnymg

Sep 17, 2010, 11:24 AM

I chose Mac OS Extended (Journaled). It's how I formatted my HDDs, but what I am asking myself is if this is the best way to format an SSD.

Check disk utilities............ there should be a tab at the top to enable/disable journaling.

You could then check the write/read speeds of the SSD (xbench, etc.) with journaling enabled and disabled.

FWIW, I formatted my SSD boot drive without journaling. Don't think it's a big deal either way.

cheers
JohnG

Ravich

Sep 17, 2010, 12:14 PM

I had no idea about this and would also like to know.

Angelo95210

Sep 17, 2010, 12:26 PM

The journal is used in case of recovery after an accidental shutdown or things like that. So I think it's useful even with a SSD...

2contagious

Sep 17, 2010, 12:28 PM

johnnymg

Sep 17, 2010, 12:31 PM

Hi again,

Is it normal that my boot up time (from chime to desktop) takes 25 seconds with my OWC SSD? I saw people getting usually around 15 secs. boot up time. The boot up time with my stock HDD drive was 17 secs. :confused: What's going on..

Go into "System Preferences" and click "Startup Disk". Make sure the OWC SSD is selected as the startup disk.

ciao
JohnG

2contagious

Sep 17, 2010, 12:37 PM

Go into "System Preferences" and click "Startup Disk". Make sure the OWC SSD is selected as the startup disk.

ciao
JohnG

It's definitely the start up disc.. I took the hard drive out for now.

johnnymg

Sep 17, 2010, 12:52 PM

It's definitely the start up disc.. I took the hard drive out for now.

"hard drive" ............. ??? I thought you were using an SSD.

Did you use the factory MP OSX CD for the install? If not, then that could be he problem.

cheers
JohnG

Sean Dempsey

Sep 17, 2010, 12:52 PM

2contagious

Sep 17, 2010, 01:16 PM

"hard drive" ............. ??? I thought you were using an SSD.

Did you use the factory MP OSX CD for the install? If not, then that could be he problem.

cheers
JohnG

Yes, I meant that I took the HDD out and only have the SSD connected at the moment. I used the factory disc to do the fresh install and formatted in 'Mac OS Extended (Journaled)" before doing that.

OWC support says 25 seconds "sounds about right". How come some people are getting 15 second boot times? I do only have 3GB RAM installed at the moment, but RAM shouldn't have that much of an effect on boot time, no?

EDIT: Does this XBENCH score seem right? (my SSD is the red one).

http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=469914&doc2=1&setCookie=true

Sean Dempsey

Sep 17, 2010, 03:02 PM

Yes, I meant that I took the HDD out and only have the SSD connected at the moment. I used the factory disc to do the fresh install and formatted in 'Mac OS Extended (Journaled)" before doing that.

OWC support says 25 seconds "sounds about right". How come some people are getting 15 second boot times? I do only have 3GB RAM installed at the moment, but RAM shouldn't have that much of an effect on boot time, no?

EDIT: Does this XBENCH score seem right? (my SSD is the red one).

http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=469914&doc2=1&setCookie=true

Check your page ins/page outs.

Journaled formatting doesn't change anything with speed, it just helps the drive not lose data if there's a power outage.

Also - who cares about boot time?

johnnymg

Sep 17, 2010, 03:10 PM

Yes, I meant that I took the HDD out and only have the SSD connected at the moment. I used the factory disc to do the fresh install and formatted in 'Mac OS Extended (Journaled)" before doing that.

OWC support says 25 seconds "sounds about right". How come some people are getting 15 second boot times? I do only have 3GB RAM installed at the moment, but RAM shouldn't have that much of an effect on boot time, no?

EDIT: Does this XBENCH score seem right? (my SSD is the red one).

http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc1=469914&doc2=1&setCookie=true

The xbench #'s look very good so I wouldn't worry about something being "wrong" with the HW or OS.

As far as your boot time goes.............. ??? In the big picture, does it really matter THAT much? I'd try some of the other standard benchmarks like cinebench and geekbench. If those #'s match the #'s in the following thread then all is well:
http://www.barefeats.com/wst10.html

OptimusP83

Sep 17, 2010, 03:15 PM

Do make sure the drive is selected in the startup panel. the computer could be spending that extra 5-10 seconds searching for boot drives since it can't find the HDD you yanked.

2contagious

Sep 17, 2010, 03:57 PM

I wouldn't worry about something being "wrong" with the HW or OS

Too late: I already got a whirring/buzzing power supply and a whining-when-on load ATI 5870 card :( http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=11080564&postcount=7

bkap16

Sep 17, 2010, 04:10 PM

The journal is used in case of recovery after an accidental shutdown or things like that. So I think it's useful even with a SSD...

Yes, it's still useful in the case of an SSD. But there's also a downside- you have a large number of writes to the journal. That will cause the SSD to fail faster. I'd go without journaling for it, and just try not to turn it off in the middle of something important.

OptimusP83

Sep 17, 2010, 04:23 PM

Yes, it's still useful in the case of an SSD. But there's also a downside- you have a large number of writes to the journal. That will cause the SSD to fail faster. I'd go without journaling for it, and just try not to turn it off in the middle of something important.

Technically you're right, but numerous tests have shown failure rates of SSD cells to be at the point now where that's not a problem. I think the potential to save your filesystem from corruption is a much bigger plus than the potential for cell death to be a minus. Also worrying about cell death on SSD's nowadays, especially the OWC ones with the sandforce "enterprise grade" controller, is being VERY paranoid. GO with journaling, don't worry about writing to your SSD.

lemonade-maker

Sep 18, 2010, 01:39 AM

SuperDuper the SSD to a differnet drive.

Wipe the SSD, install OS X fresh.

Test the startup.

I have a feeling that cloning a system drive back and forth between drives does something to the optimization.

Where do you feel this? All over or just in spots? Seriously, there's no reason to reinstall the os. It's not windows.

VirtualRain

Sep 18, 2010, 02:05 AM

Yes, it's still useful in the case of an SSD. But there's also a downside- you have a large number of writes to the journal. That will cause the SSD to fail faster. I'd go without journaling for it, and just try not to turn it off in the middle of something important.

This is like saying you shouldn't drive your new car because you will wear it out. To be on the safe side it's best you just keep the SSD in the box... It will last longer that way. :p

Seriously, this is completely unnecessary. Even with journalling active the SSD will likely outlast the usefulness of your Mac Pro by a significant margin. You'll replace it with something much faster, bigger, and cheaper, long before it's worn out.

mangrove

Sep 18, 2010, 08:58 AM

This is like saying you shouldn't drive your new car because you will wear it out. To be on the safe side it's best you just keep the SSD in the box... It will last longer that way. :p

Seriously, this is completely unnecessary. Even with journalling active the SSD will likely outlast the usefulness of your Mac Pro by a significant margin. You'll replace it with something much faster, bigger, and cheaper, long before it's worn out.

+1

mangrove

Sep 18, 2010, 09:01 AM

Technically you're right, but numerous tests have shown failure rates of SSD cells to be at the point now where that's not a problem. I think the potential to save your filesystem from corruption is a much bigger plus than the potential for cell death to be a minus. Also worrying about cell death on SSD's nowadays, especially the OWC ones with the sandforce "enterprise grade" controller, is being VERY paranoid. GO with journaling, don't worry about writing to your SSD.

Also +1 and then +1

Asylum Design

Oct 11, 2010, 12:46 AM

Your SSD drive speeds are fine from xbench... that's not going to take your G5 and make it boot that much faster... it's the CPU / Memory subsystem slowing you down at this point.

I boot OS X in just under 3 seconds (3 rotations under the Apple logo). AND I'm completely journaled.

My drive is only marginally faster than yours, but my CPU is running at 4.2Ghz.

Don't worry about boot times on a G5... just enjoy the ssd for it's quiet and quick nature, and be happy :-)

Luis Ortega

Oct 11, 2010, 03:06 AM

I was able to improve my boot times significantly by doing a few things.
Reset PRAM and SMC and let it boot up several times.
Ideally, a fresh install of osx and software would be best so that any connections to your previous hdd are not still held by the cloned os.