Apple support, well...kind of sucks!

[drake]

My son's headphones are toast. Went through Apple's convoluted system to see if I can get them replaced under warranty. Found an option that doesn't involve giving them more money, one where they call back. Never received the call.

The other option without paying for tech support involved cross shipping, giving them $30 up front as a deposit, and letting them decide if they keep the money. Well, screw that. You can't just sent them in, let them decide, and they either send new ones or the old back?? Its really a crappy setup, and made me decide two things:

1. Won't be buying the Apple "care".
2. Won't be buying the Macbook Pro I've had my eye on.

Just as I'm writing this, they call (one full hour late).

He's telling me I need to give them the deposit, I say no. He says he'll get a manager to see if there's another option....U2...U2....back...says sorry for the delay...no problem.....speaking with Senior Tech Ian...says they need the deposit, can't over-ride it. I say no thanks, my son's happy with this $10 headphones. Conversation ends.

Frankly, the headphones probably aren't worth the cost of postage, not sure why they're doing it this way and not giving people the option to just send them back and get another pair, but time to go shopping for a laptop. Thinkpads are nice.

[tpg]

Ouch... that doesn't sound great. I don't suppose taking them in to an Apple Store is an option/convenient? Not that you should have to...

Not the first time I've heard Apple 'support' being a bit unsupportive with seemingly crazy guidelines, and unfortunately I'm sure it won't be the last.

[drake]

Unfortunately, I'm no where near an Apple Store. There's probably authorized dealers in my closest city, would that work? Not even sure if that's worth the effort, they're not exactly the greatest headphones in the world, and my son seems happy with the $9 Panasonic buds I got him. Just seems like a crappy way to do things from a CR POV.

For contrast, when my Asus netbook's power adapter stopped working under warranty, we called and they sent a new one. Didn't even have to return the defective one. What is Asus going to do with a dead power adapter, and what is Apple going to do with a dead set of headphones?

[roland.g]

Sounds like a brilliant plan. Base your decision for a $1000+ computer on the quality and customer service for some throwaway headphones. Hmm. Smart.

[iEvolution]

Sounds like a brilliant plan. Base your decision for a $1000+ computer on the quality and customer service for some throwaway headphones. Hmm. Smart.

Actually it is, before he/she spends $1,000+ on a new computer that has seemingly ridiculous loops for support over a stinkin set of head phones that have the manufacturer value of $1.

I haven't had to deal with apple support myself as I haven't had any problems, I'm just saying, my opinion, its really not that ridiculous.

[brentsg]

Unfortunately, I'm no where near an Apple Store. There's probably authorized dealers in my closest city, would that work? Not even sure if that's worth the effort, they're not exactly the greatest headphones in the world, and my son seems happy with the $9 Panasonic buds I got him. Just seems like a crappy way to do things from a CR POV.

For contrast, when my Asus netbook's power adapter stopped working under warranty, we called and they sent a new one. Didn't even have to return the defective one. What is Asus going to do with a dead power adapter, and what is Apple going to do with a dead set of headphones?

And when my Asus motherboard failed they were going to send it overseas for repair and they wanted a month total to take care of it.

I've never had any negative issues with Apple's support. They've always been fair and straightforward. But honestly when you started going on about Thinkpads and such, it got a bit waahh to me.

[Corndog5595]

But honestly when you started going on about Thinkpads and such, it got a bit waahh to me.

I can’t agree with this statement more.

[Fast/Furious]

No matter what el cheapo 'buds you buy, if they cost under $50 they are guaranteed to break any time. IMHO I think it's dumb that you're basing your decision to buy a $1500+ laptop on the fact that Apple doesn't really give a ***** about replacing your headphones.

Apple is a corporation, straight and simple. Essentially, the more you pay, the better service you get. Your Toyota Corolla need maintenance? Bring it to the dealership, sip crappy coffee, and read a 6-month old magazine while you wait. Your Lexus need maintenance? A technician will come to your house and fix your car for you, and then leave while you do your own thing. Hate to break it to you, but every company does this.

I have a MacBook and have received nothing but excellent customer service and tech support from Apple. They fixed the cracks in my palmrest/bezel, even though they were not obligated to (it was older than 36 months at the time). Do I think they would fix my headphones if I broke them? Probably not. For Apple, it's just not worth the doubt, time, postage, and money.

This is the same with any company. Your Sony Blu-Ray player go defective under warranty? Chances are Sony WILL fix or replace it for free. How about your $20 Sony earbuds? Probably not.

My advice? Get over it. They're headphones.. if your son is a teenager it's most likely that he broke them internally (eg. tugging too hard on the wire, causing it to fray from the inside or submerging the speaker driver in a slurpee) which is why Apple generally doesn't give a hoot about fixing it. Don't forget that if Apple fixed your son's headphones, they are obligated to fix everyone's. Which costs $$ that Apple obviously don't want to pay.

Just my two cents :rolleyes:

[makinao]

Unfortunately, I'm no where near an Apple Store. There's probably authorized dealers in my closest city, would that work?

Have you bothered to ask? I'm in the Philippines, and whenever my daughter's earphones broke under warranty, my local authorized dealer forwarded it to the local service Apple service center, which forwarded it to Apple SE Asia (Singapore), which sent back a replacement in about a week.

[drake]

I think some cheap item like headphones is a good way to tell the quality of customer support. If they won't be flexible on that, just how supportive are they going to be when I drop $1600 on a Macbook Pro. Not very, I suspect. I would have cost them less than a few bucks to make this right, they chose to play by a ridged formula...many if not most companies would have just thrown the headphones in a padded envelope and sent them to me if just to build good will.

The car example doesn't hold water. We've owned a variety of cars, but to Mercedes, the service is exactly the same.

[roadbloc]

I've had a very bad experience with Apple's support when they refused to see the problem with my iPod Classic (it wouldn't play anything and the hard drive sounded faulty.)

I doubt I'll use another Apple product again when my MacBook dies.

[PinkyMacGodess]

I think some cheap item like headphones is a good way to tell the quality of customer support. If they won't be flexible on that, just how supportive are they going to be when I drop $1600 on a Macbook Pro. Not very, I suspect. I would have cost them less than a few bucks to make this right, they chose to play by a ridged formula...many if not most companies would have just thrown the headphones in a padded envelope and sent them to me if just to build good will.

The car example doesn't hold water. We've owned a variety of cars, but to Mercedes, the service is exactly the same.

OK, if you drop your MacBook I'd think that Apple wouldn't be too quick to fix it for free. Second, if Apple sent out 'free' ear buds to every person that called up with a sob story they'd likely go bankrupt. Third, I actually owned a Mercedes and they would drive someone to my house, or where ever I was and swap cars and then do the same thing back. BUT ONLY THE ORIGINAL DEALER. Any other dealer and I got the back of a hand and had to bring it in and wait.

The problem with warranties is that stuff that's a 'consumable' is the usually the first to go, and usually if people abuse them and break them, they are just as likely to abuse and break them again if they are replaced.

Also, how many people actually keep the ear buds that came with their iPod anyway? I have on my Nano and my iPhone (because of the embedded controls in the cord) but use more comfortable buds for my Touch. The Apple buds aren't the best at reproducing sound. I've had several pairs start buzzing over time.

So my advice is to buck up and tell your kid to get a freaking job and buy his own replacements and maybe they'll value them and not break them in the future...

As for the MacBook you alluded to: Don't bother. We wouldn't want to read your wanking about some cheap bit on it going bad and your flailing about playing the victim... (BTW: Most companies don't want power supplies back, and if they go bad, they are a HEALTH/SAFETY hazard. The ear buds? Being a 'consumable' are prone to wear out and fail. Apple support has replaced computers for me with brand new equipment! Try getting that from Dell or HP.)

[drake]

OK, if you drop your MacBook I'd think that Apple wouldn't be too quick to fix it for free. Second, if Apple sent out 'free' ear buds to every person that called up with a sob story they'd likely go bankrupt.

Given what they charge for iPods, I highly doubt that. All I asked them to do was let me RMA the headphones, then at their discretion, send me new ones. It didn't fit their policy so they said no.

Third, I actually owned a Mercedes and they would drive someone to my house, or where ever I was and swap cars and then do the same thing back. BUT ONLY THE ORIGINAL DEALER. Any other dealer and I got the back of a hand and had to bring it in and wait.

Must be different where you live, Chrysler does that here. Mercedes doesn't.

The problem with warranties is that stuff that's a 'consumable' is the usually the first to go, and usually if people abuse them and break them, they are just as likely to abuse and break them again if they are replaced.

Also, how many people actually keep the ear buds that came with their iPod anyway? I have on my Nano and my iPhone (because of the embedded controls in the cord) but use more comfortable buds for my Touch. The Apple buds aren't the best at reproducing sound. I've had several pairs start buzzing over time.

How is this even relevant?

So my advice is to buck up and tell your kid to get a freaking job and buy his own replacements and maybe they'll value them and not break them in the future...

Interesting assumption, my son broke the headphones.

As for the MacBook you alluded to: Don't bother. We wouldn't want to read your wanking about some cheap bit on it going bad and your flailing about playing the victim... (BTW: Most companies don't want power supplies back, and if they go bad, they are a HEALTH/SAFETY hazard. The ear buds? Being a 'consumable' are prone to wear out and fail. Apple support has replaced computers for me with brand new equipment! Try getting that from Dell or HP.)

Maybe someday when (if) you finish school and get a job you'll have a better understanding.

[Fast/Furious]

Interesting assumption, my son broke the headphones. Now understand what a fan boy is.

Apple headphones are ridiculously easy to break. I've gone through about 4 pairs in the last 3 years so I would know.. however, I do accept responsibility for the fact that ****I (me, myself, thy, etc.)**** was the one who most likely broke them and not Apple. Judging from the fact that your son can't talk to Apple himself and you are speaking for him, he most likely broke them himself and then hid the fact from you (don't make me get into the Child Psychology crap). Believe me, there are plenty of ways to break Apple headphones internally so they do not look physically damaged.

It is interesting that despite everything you've said, you still haven't even told us what's actually wrong with these headphones.

However, if you so refuse to believe your son should take any responsibility whatsoever for his actions, take your headphones to the nearest Apple Store. They are generally much nicer and more understanding than Apple telephone support... especially if you told them you drove a long way just to get your headphones replaced. Good luck.

PS. Maybe let your son drive there, and then when he crashes, call the car dealership and complain :) Who knows, they might give you a free replacement if it's still under warranty!

[thejadedmonkey]

Apple headphones are ridiculously easy to break. I've gone through about 4 pairs in the last 3 years so I would know.. however, I do accept responsibility for the fact that ****I (me, myself, thy, etc.)**** was the one who most likely broke them and not Apple. Judging from the fact that your son can't talk to Apple himself and you are speaking for him, he most likely broke them himself and then hid the fact from you (don't make me get into the Child Psychology crap). Believe me, there are plenty of ways to break Apple headphones internally so they do not look physically damaged.

It is interesting that despite everything you've said, you still haven't even told us what's actually wrong with these headphones.

However, if you so refuse to believe your son should take any responsibility whatsoever for his actions, take your headphones to the nearest Apple Store. They are generally much nicer and more understanding than Apple telephone support... especially if you told them you drove a long way just to get your headphones replaced. Good luck.

PS. Maybe let your son drive there, and then when he crashes, call the car dealership and complain :) Who knows, they might give you a free replacement if it's still under warranty!

People like you make me sick. I think it's a pretty well known fact that Dell's support (if you can get through the language barrier, which isn't too bad these days) is leaps and bounds above Apple's.

P.S. I still have my iPod headphones from my first iPod, they still work fine. They're 9 year old.

[drake]

Apple headphones are ridiculously easy to break. I've gone through about 4 pairs in the last 3 years so I would know.. however, I do accept responsibility for the fact that ****I (me, myself, thy, etc.)**** was the one who most likely broke them and not Apple. Judging from the fact that your son can't talk to Apple himself and you are speaking for him, he most likely broke them himself and then hid the fact from you (don't make me get into the Child Psychology crap). Believe me, there are plenty of ways to break Apple headphones internally so they do not look physically damaged.

It is interesting that despite everything you've said, you still haven't even told us what's actually wrong with these headphones.

The volume coming through them is barely audible. And I would suspect my son of breaking them, he's a master of breaking things, but there is no evidence at all he did anything to them, they look almost brand new. Had it been obvious that he'd done something to them, I would have told him "tough luck" and go buy new ones. It was clear to me he hadn't, so I got him a ten dollar pair of Panasonics and he's happy.

They just cheaply made, crappy little headphones that Apple charges are arm and leg for because the fan boys will by them, and make accuses for Apple when they brake.

However, if you so refuse to believe your son should take any responsibility whatsoever for his actions, take your headphones to the nearest Apple Store. They are generally much nicer and more understanding than Apple telephone support... especially if you told them you drove a long way just to get your headphones replaced. Good luck.

Like i said, I'm not going out of my way to replace them. They certainly don't represent the sort of quality I'd expect given the price we paid. Typically Apple I guess. All they needed to do is give us an RMA, we would have shipped them back, and they could ship new ones when they got them...but NO! Apple has to be about the least flexible company I've dealt with.

[mojohanna]

People like you make me sick. I think it's a pretty well known fact that Dell's support (if you can get through the language barrier, which isn't too bad these days) is leaps and bounds above Apple's.

P.S. I still have my iPod headphones from my first iPod, they still work fine. They're 9 year old.

Service is all a matter of opinion. You guys sound like two guys arguing over which beer is better, Miller Lite or Bud Light.

I have heard countless examples of both good and bad service from both Dell and Apple. However, there is a big difference between service and a policy. Each company needs to establish a standard procedure in order to handle issues in as efficiently as possible.
While you may not agree with the policy, it does not mean the service sucks. I went through an ear bud replacement and gave them my credit card number, they sent the new ones, I returned the old ones. THey never charged my card. Its not that big of a deal. I really think you need to get over this entitlement sort of attitude. And worry about things that are more important.

[hcho3]

Just do it in apple store...

[TroyBoy30]

personally i think apples support is one of the best out there if you can visit the store.

[Flowbee]

Consumer Reports most recent survey of computer tech support:

[farmermac]

So you realize the only reason apple
Holds a deposit is in case you don't send the stuff back right?

As soon as they receive the headphones they would take the hold off the cc. Your childish insistence to not give them your credit card is whats giving you the impression apple service is bad. In fact it's just that you are stubborn for no good reason. I've set plenty of (questionable) items back and
Never had an issue with apple "taking my money"

Cliff notes: you're throwing a hissy fit

[bobr1952]

Everyone has their own idea on what is right or equitable as far as customer support. Personally, I'd just toss the headphones and get another pair--just not something that I'd dwell on.

[jerry333]

I've actually found Apple support to be pretty good. Of course, it depends on what you're calling about. If it's OS X Server and you don't have the $5K/yr contract you're not going to get much if anything, but if it's about your iMac or Mac Pro and regular OS X they've been helpful and have mostly solved the problems they can solve (some problems are only solvable by Apple fixing the particular bug that bit you).

As far as the headsets go, my experience has been that the more expensive they are the sooner they break. So after going through a number of headsets from $300 to $80 from various manufacturers, including earbuds and over the ear types--which have all lasted from three weeks for the $300 ones to six months for the $80 ones--I now just get the $39 Apple ones and call it a day. They aren't the best in sound reproduction or sound isolation but they last over a year in most cases.

Perhaps there is a manufacturer that makes a headset that is both good and robust but I haven't found them yet (and yes, I tried the Zaggbuds--six months tops, one set shorted and one set stopped playing on one side).

And no, I'm not using them during sports or other athletic activities. Mostly they are used when sitting at a desk.

[tigress666]

Everyone has their own idea on what is right or equitable as far as customer support. Personally, I'd just toss the headphones and get another pair--just not something that I'd dwell on.

Exactly. Honestly, I wouldn't have even bothered bugging Apple about a cheap ass pair of headphones. I'd have probably figured they gave me a cheap ass pair of headphones that were thrown in cause, well you have to have something to listen to it (I dunno, I guess I tend to feel I pay more for the ipod than the headphones and take it for granted what comes with the ipod is crap). I guess I see the warranty as being more on the ipod than the headphones.

That being said, I have only had one pair break on me and that is after a ton of use and they lasted longer than the cheap ass pair that came with the cheap ass mp3 player I had. But, really, if I were to replace them, it would be with something better *shrug*.

[Fast/Furious]

The volume coming through them is barely audible. And I would suspect my son of breaking them, he's a master of breaking things, but there is no evidence at all he did anything to them, they look almost brand new. Had it been obvious that he'd done something to them, I would have told him "tough luck" and go buy new ones. It was clear to me he hadn't, so I got him a ten dollar pair of Panasonics and he's happy.



...if your son is a teenager it's most likely that he broke them internally (eg. tugging too hard on the wire, causing it to fray from the inside or submerging the speaker driver in a slurpee) which is why Apple generally doesn't give a hoot about fixing it.


^ This. :rolleyes: Go on, go wrap your Mercedes around a tree and see if they RMA you a new one. I mean, they should, right? Because in no way should you, God forbid, take responsibility for your actions (or your son's actions, in this case).

[Mike Macintosh]

Although the earphones may look good, exactly whats the prob with them, if your telling me that one of the speakers will not work you need to look at how loud your son is turning this headphones up, the louder you get the more chances you have of blowing the speakers.

If that is not the prob, my suggestion is to toss them, in my opinion its not worth calling Applecare about when you can buy better headphones for around $10-$20 anyways and could care less to get Apple quality replacements that will probably break in a few weeks anyways.

[readerbreader]

Because in no way should you, God forbid, take responsibility for your actions (or your son's actions, in this case).

wrong! Obviously he is entitled to a new set of headphones because of his (or his son's) carelessness....

yes...more sarcasm.

Move on.

you want an example of good customer service? (and I'm sure almost every iPhone user can back me up) I walked into my local Apple Store...told them i had a problem (the sleep button was rattling(yes, i know, it's a minor detail)) they practically threw a new phone at me and i was on my merry way. Find another company that gives you a new product no questions asked...

[aristobrat]

not sure why they're doing it this way and not giving people the option to just send them back and get another pair, but time to go shopping for a laptop.
Cross-shipping, with a deposit that is refunded if the damaged product is returned and the damage is covered under the warranty, is the fastest way to get a replacement part to a customer with minimal risk for fraud for Apple.

I agree with you that it doesn't necessarily make the most sense in the scope of inexpensive things (like headsets, sync cables and Apple remotes), but this cross-ship/deposit method is a general system that they use with virtually all of their user-replaceable parts, including more expensive ones like mice/keyboards, laptop batteries, and even full-on-devices, like Airport Extremes and Time Capsules.

I've exchanged headsets twice via this program, and got the deposit back twice. If there were an issue with Apple being dicks about not giving the deposit back, you'd see threads about it here. AFAIK, there aren't any.

And even with this cross-ship/deposit system, they still get scammed:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/ipod-mechanic-faces-federal-fraud-money-laundering-charges/ :eek:

[drake]

Although the earphones may look good, exactly whats the prob with them, if your telling me that one of the speakers will not work you need to look at how loud your son is turning this headphones up, the louder you get the more chances you have of blowing the speakers.

If that is not the prob, my suggestion is to toss them, in my opinion its not worth calling Applecare about when you can buy better headphones for around $10-$20 anyways and could care less to get Apple quality replacements that will probably break in a few weeks anyways.

Thanks for following along. ;)

Cross-shipping, with a deposit that is refunded if the damaged product is returned and the damage is covered under the warranty, is the fastest way to get a replacement part to a customer with minimal risk for fraud for Apple.

I agree with you that it doesn't necessarily make the most sense in the scope of inexpensive things (like headsets, sync cables and Apple remotes), but this cross-ship/deposit method is a general system that they use with virtually all of their user-replaceable parts, including more expensive ones like mice/keyboards, laptop batteries, and even full-on-devices, like Airport Extremes and Time Capsules.

I've exchanged headsets twice via this program, and got the deposit back twice. If there were an issue with Apple being dicks about not giving the deposit back, you'd see threads about it here. AFAIK, there aren't any.

And even with this cross-ship/deposit system, they still get scammed:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/ipod-mechanic-faces-federal-fraud-money-laundering-charges/ :eek:

I'm not interested in cross shipping. Never have been and never will be. If that's the only way they do things, and you're happy with it, then great. For me, I'll deal with people who still RMA. Oddly enough, I have had things cross shipped, but never gave them my card number, they did so at their own risk (things as expensive as a monitor). People who have only dealt with Apple might not be aware that there are
companies that actually will do that. Logitech was one company that would ship you replacements without ever having to ship back their defective units.

[NathanA]

(Wow, everybody...the OP is complaining about the cross-ship/deposit requirement for something as small as a cheap pair of headphones, and not that Apple won't replace the part for him, which if given the chance they probably would. I think OP's complaint and your responses along the lines of "your son probably broke them anyway; take responsibility, you crybaby" are from cross-dimensions...do they even teach reading comprehension anymore in school these days?)

OP, I'm actually surprised at your story. Reason being that I've dealt with Apple support by mail-in before for big-ticket items (like iPhones), and the cross-ship method has always been presented to me as an *option* but *never* a requirement. Maybe things are different when you call for iPod support... (actually, this wouldn't surprise me; you call a different phone # and I do now remember having to talk to the iPod guys a couple times, and it sounded like they were overseas whereas the iPhone group for the U.S. is definitely housed domestically)

Here is what I understand your options to be with Apple mail-in support (at least in my experience):

1. No cross-shipment. They generate a "case #" (your RMA#) AND they even send you a box and pay for shipping both ways. You wait for the box to come, stuff your defective product in it, and drop it off at the nearest FedEx facility with the pre-paid label attached. Wait a week, get the replacement. If self-inflicted/user damage is OBVIOUS, then they will simply return your original product to you and refuse to repair/replace it, but they will never charge you back for the shipping costs in either direction; they end up eating that even if it is a false claim. This is the default.

2. Cross-shipment. You give them a CC#, they put a "hold" on your CC for the value of the product being replaced, they ship you the new product FIRST, and then you have I think somewhere between 7-14 days to return the original product (again, with pre-paid shipping label included) in the box that they sent the new product in. If you don't return it, or if self-inflicted damage to the returned product is OBVIOUS (it comes back to them in bite-sized pieces, say...in other words, not a manufacturing error), only then do you forfeit the deposit. The deposit is there to protect them from getting scammed by someone. NOTE: there is ALSO a non-refundable $30 charge for the convenience of the cross-shipment SERVICE that you don't get back, regardless. So be careful not to confuse this with the deposit amount.

3. Cross-shipment with AppleCare plan. This is exactly the same as #2, except that if you have AppleCare coverage on your device, cross-shipment is always the default option, and you get it "gratis" (there is no $30 convenience fee).

I could be wrong here, but I believe in the case of cross-shipment, if there is a dispute as to whether the malfunction is your fault and they are refusing to refund the deposit as a result, you can return the replacement part and get your original (defective) one back and avoid the charge. Don't quote me on that, though. (And you still wouldn't get the $30 "service" charge back, if you don't have AppleCare.)

But all that aside, I understand where you're coming from: you don't want to run the risk that they are going to "find" some user-inflicted damage where there is none, and so "find" a reason to keep the deposit. You'd rather they look at the part FIRST and then make a decision, which is why you want to go what you call the "RMA route." For the sake of the other readers here, you aren't complaining that Apple is refusing to replace them. In fact, I think I read your stance as this: IF they are going to claim that your son damaged the earbuds and so refuse to replace them, then fine and so be it; it isn't worth your time or energy to fight them over it. But at least without the deposit requirement, you could try your hand at getting them replaced under warranty without being forced to pay $30 for a replacement set of crappy earbuds (in the event they don't rule in your favor) if your son is content with $10 crappy earbuds.

That having been established, it has been my experience so far that Apple (at least in iPhone Support Department land) has been more than fair and equitable to me when I use their cross-shipment service, and I've had my fair share of iPhones replaced by them, both in person and via the "cross-ship" mail-in service (I've talked about my hardware issues with iPhones before here on MR...I've definitely been disappointed about hardware quality, but NEVER their service, which IMO has been impeccable). I've never had them make up excuses (none of this crap like "it's obvious you dropped it," or "you attached it to an unsupported/non-certified accessory," or "we can tell you spilled liquid on it at some point") in order to keep my deposit.

But, yeah, even so, being forced into a cross-ship repair/replacement for crappy and overpriced (at $30) earbuds is ridiculous, and definitely not worth the hassle. If I were you, I would call them up again, and try your hand at talking to a different customer support agent to see if you can get an RMA/non-cross-ship repair option. Maybe the one(s) you talked to before (the original and the supervisor) were having a bad day, or maybe you guys both misunderstood each other, or something, but in my experience not only is non-cross-ship an option, it is the default way that Apple sets up "repairs." Cross-ship is a convenience service you *pay extra* for in order to get a shorter turn-around time on your replacement in the event you can't live without it for that long.

If talking to them over the phone again really fails (and I'd be surprised if it did), then stuff the earbuds in a letter envelope, affix a First Class stamp to it, and drop it in the mail to a friend who lives near an Apple Store. I once walked into an Apple Store with an iPod USB sync cable that started coming apart at one end. They handed me a new cable off the retail rack, no questions asked. Didn't even bother to check the serial number of the device it came with to see whether the device itself was still under warranty or not (although I was prepared to give them the appropriate documentation, if asked). I agree that it shouldn't have to come to this, and that you shouldn't have to find an Apple retail store and go there in person in order to get good service. But I also wouldn't leave money sitting there on the table, either, if I had the means and the opportunity. :)

-- Nathan

[drake]

(Wow, everybody...the OP is complaining about the cross-ship/deposit requirement for something as small as a cheap pair of headphones, and not that Apple won't replace the part for him, which if given the chance they probably would. I think OP's complaint and your responses along the lines of "your son probably broke them anyway; take responsibility, you crybaby" are from cross-dimensions...do they even teach reading comprehension anymore in school these days?)

Exactly.

OP, I'm actually surprised at your story. Reason being that I've dealt with Apple support by mail-in before for big-ticket items (like iPhones), and the cross-ship method has always been presented to me as an *option* but *never* a requirement. Maybe things are different when you call for iPod support... (actually, this wouldn't surprise me; you call a different phone # and I do now remember having to talk to the iPod guys a couple times, and it sounded like they were overseas whereas the iPhone group for the U.S. is definitely housed domestically)

Could be because I'm in Canada. They outright refused the RMA option, only the cross shipping is permitted (according to them on the phone, and when I tried to do it online).

Here is what I understand your options to be with Apple mail-in support (at least in my experience):

1. No cross-shipment. They generate a "case #" (your RMA#) AND they even send you a box and pay for shipping both ways. You wait for the box to come, stuff your defective product in it, and drop it off at the nearest FedEx facility with the pre-paid label attached. Wait a week, get the replacement. If self-inflicted/user damage is OBVIOUS, then they will simply return your original product to you and refuse to repair/replace it, but they will never charge you back for the shipping costs in either direction; they end up eating that even if it is a false claim. This is the default.

The option I wanted. They said No.

2. Cross-shipment. You give them a CC#, they put a "hold" on your CC for the value of the product being replaced, they ship you the new product FIRST, and then you have I think somewhere between 7-14 days to return the original product (again, with pre-paid shipping label included) in the box that they sent the new product in. If you don't return it, or if self-inflicted damage to the returned product is OBVIOUS (it comes back to them in bite-sized pieces, say...in other words, not a manufacturing error), only then do you forfeit the deposit. The deposit is there to protect them from getting scammed by someone. NOTE: there is ALSO a non-refundable $30 charge for the convenience of the cross-shipment SERVICE that you don't get back, regardless. So be careful not to confuse this with the deposit amount.

Not worth it on so many levels. :D

3. Cross-shipment with AppleCare plan. This is exactly the same as #2, except that if you have AppleCare coverage on your device, cross-shipment is always the default option, and you get it "gratis" (there is no $30 convenience fee).

No Apple Care. Apple Care is what sort of prompted me to see how difficult it would be to get his earbuds replaced. Plan was to buy Apple Care at the end of the process. Decided based on their requirements not to purchase Apple Care.

I could be wrong here, but I believe in the case of cross-shipment, if there is a dispute as to whether the malfunction is your fault and they are refusing to refund the deposit as a result, you can return the replacement part and get your original (defective) one back and avoid the charge. Don't quote me on that, though. (And you still wouldn't get the $30 "service" charge back, if you don't have AppleCare.)

Then the shipping charge to return it. Again, none of this is worth the time, money or effort.

But all that aside, I understand where you're coming from: you don't want to run the risk that they are going to "find" some user-inflicted damage where there is none, and so "find" a reason to keep the deposit. You'd rather they look at the part FIRST and then make a decision, which is why you want to go what you call the "RMA route." For the sake of the other readers here, you aren't complaining that Apple is refusing to replace them. In fact, I think I read your stance as this: IF they are going to claim that your son damaged the earbuds and so refuse to replace them, then fine and so be it; it isn't worth your time or energy to fight them over it. But at least without the deposit requirement, you could try your hand at getting them replaced under warranty without being forced to pay $30 for a replacement set of crappy earbuds (in the event they don't rule in your favor) if your son is content with $10 crappy earbuds.

You have it exactly right. I would expect them to provide a reason, however, if they rejected my claim. If they can show me he actually did damage the headphones, then that is that. It wouldn't surprise me if he did, though I see no evidence of it.

That having been established, it has been my experience so far that Apple (at least in iPhone Support Department land) has been more than fair and equitable to me when I use their cross-shipment service, and I've had my fair share of iPhones replaced by them, both in person and via the "cross-ship" mail-in service (I've talked about my hardware issues with iPhones before here on MR...I've definitely been disappointed about hardware quality, but NEVER their service, which IMO has been impeccable). I've never had them make up excuses (none of this crap like "it's obvious you dropped it," or "you attached it to an unsupported/non-certified accessory," or "we can tell you spilled liquid on it at some point") in order to keep my deposit.

But, yeah, even so, being forced into a cross-ship repair/replacement for crappy and overpriced (at $30) earbuds is ridiculous, and definitely not worth the hassle. If I were you, I would call them up again, and try your hand at talking to a different customer support agent to see if you can get an RMA/non-cross-ship repair option. Maybe the one(s) you talked to before (the original and the supervisor) were having a bad day, or maybe you guys both misunderstood each other, or something, but in my experience not only is non-cross-ship an option, it is the default way that Apple sets up "repairs." Cross-ship is a convenience service you *pay extra* for in order to get a shorter turn-around time on your replacement in the event you can't live without it for that long.

The people I spoke with were friendly, not hostile at all. I really do think that cross-shipping is their policy, at least, for Canada.

If talking to them over the phone again really fails (and I'd be surprised if it did), then stuff the earbuds in a letter envelope, affix a First Class stamp to it, and drop it in the mail to a friend who lives near an Apple Store. I once walked into an Apple Store with an iPod USB sync cable that started coming apart at one end. They handed me a new cable off the retail rack, no questions asked. Didn't even bother to check the serial number of the device it came with to see whether the device itself was still under warranty or not (although I was prepared to give them the appropriate documentation, if asked). I agree that it shouldn't have to come to this, and that you shouldn't have to find an Apple retail store and go there in person in order to get good service. But I also wouldn't leave money sitting there on the table, either, if I had the means and the opportunity. :)

Thanks for the suggestion, but I wouldn't impose on anyone to this for cheap headphones. :) I've learned my lesson and moving on, it just won't include Apple products in the future.

Update - I need to point out here, since the moderator has deleted my posts pointing it out, and people continue to tell me to "go to an Apple Store", I don't live anywhere near an Apple Store! So its not an option. Also, even though I've pointed this out constantly, there is ZERO evidence my son did anything to damage these headphones. Yet the assumption by readers is he did! Why would people's knee jerk reaction be he did damage them. Do you know my son?

All I expected was the normal RMA process by Apple, and I've expressed my frustration it isn't available, and made a decision not to do business with them in the future. There was no reason to make personal attacks on me or my son.

[drake]

BTW, MacRumor's has censored my posts (no longer conveys it original intent), deleted some because I said one particular poster was a "fan boy" for defending Apple regardless of any points I was making, and for making accusations against my son, who he knows nothing of. I notice that MacRumors didn't removing any of this person (and others) slanderous comments, just censoring my using the term "fan boy" to describe a prejudice against its critics and uncritical support of Apple.

Just looked back, they deleted entire responses.

Update, heard back from the moderator, I wait and see how he handles this.

Update II - moderator did nothing. Apparently its okay okay to slander people in the forum, just don't call them a "fan boy". Guess that's fine since I don't have much need for this forum going forward as I have no need for Apple products.

[Consultant]

LOL. Good luck, some people obviously don't understand facts:

Apple ranks highest in technology customer service:
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/22/apple-ranks-third-in-businessweek-customer-service-rankings/

[NathanA]

Could be because I'm in Canada.

Oh! I didn't know that. And you know, I bet that has everything to do with it. I would not be surprised to learn that Apple's policies and support quality vary wildly depending on the country...I know they do with other large international conglomerates. Sad, really, because the support team in the U.S. truly is excellent, and bad support in other countries just serves to soil their good name everywhere.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I wouldn't impose on anyone to this for cheap headphones.

I'd actually be happy to do it for you. Two snags, though: I'm in the U.S., and the nearest Apple store is 300 miles away. :( However, I routinely seem to be in the vicinity of one every month or every two months or so.

Apple ranks highest in technology customer service:

...which is, of course, a report that came out of a U.S.-centric publication.

-- Nathan

[drake]

Oh! I didn't know that. And you know, I bet that has everything to do with it. I would not be surprised to learn that Apple's policies and support quality vary wildly depending on the country...I know they do with other large international conglomerates. Sad, really, because the support team in the U.S. truly is excellent, and bad support in other countries just serves to soil their good name everywhere.



I'd actually be happy to do it for you. Two snags, though: I'm in the U.S., and the nearest Apple store is 300 miles away. :( However, I routinely seem to be in the vicinity of one every month or every two months or so.



...which is, of course, a report that came out of a U.S.-centric publication.

-- Nathan

Thanks for the support. You're the only one here that seems to be able to read what is said and not jump to unwarranted conclusions.

[tigress666]

Honestly, OP, I think the thing is I think it's a little ridiculous to get *as* ticked off as you seem to be just cause they don't handle returns exactly how you want.

It's one of those things that for me maybe I'd prefer them to do it one way, but if that is their policy, that is their policy. Long as they actually retain to it and are honest with me, I don't consider that bad service (basically, if they don't charge your card when they rule in your favor or even if they decide it was abuse and do charge your card). I'd consider it bad service if they did something like charge your card anyways even if they rule in your favor or if there is good reason to believe they lied about finding it to be not covered and charging your card. Then I'd be sympathetic to you.

But deciding to boycott them just cause they won't handle it the exact way you want it but have their own policy seems to be going overboard. As long as they are honest and follow their policy and don't use it to sham you, I think the most they can be blamed for is not having the best policy *shrug*. But not so bad service I'd instantly boycott everything of theirs just to pout.

[wirelessmacuser]

Actually it is, before he/she spends $1,000+ on a new computer that has seemingly ridiculous loops for support over a stinkin set of head phones that have the manufacturer value of $1.

I haven't had to deal with apple support myself as I haven't had any problems, I'm just saying, my opinion, its really not that ridiculous.
I agree, it's Apple's loss.

The price of the "supported product" should not dictate the quality of support, or lack thereof.

At the end of the day, Apple is letting all the revenue they are presently earning go to their head. What comes.... goes.

Arrogance does not stay in fashion forever.

[tactician1016]

Generally speaking, Apple (for me at least) has far better support for big-ticket items than they do for (I assume) inexpensive headphones. I agree that their small-claims service is kind of silly, as I think they use the same system from $10 to $10,000. (i.e., what you described)
On a similar note, the AppleCare that you mentioned is actually fantastic customer service. Expensive, but fantastic.
By the way, what is/was wrong with the headphones and what kind were they?

[wordoflife]

If you are going to base your laptop decision on this ... you are really going to be missing out. :D

Apple has been good for me though. When my iPhone's home button wasn't working properly, they gave me a replacement despite the water damaged sticker being pink.

[NathanA]

I know its just headphones, but say it were a Macbook pro or something expensive, they aren't just going to send them to you like that.

OP wasn't asking that they send him a replacement set without some kind of collateral/deposit. That would be unreasonable. He was asking that he be able to ship the 'phones to Apple FIRST, and be without them for a while while they are repaired/replaced.

They do this in the States, as I detailed in my post. In fact, it is the ONLY way to get free service in the States, by mail. If you want to cross-ship (which apparently is the ONLY option in Canada), Apple collects a deposit + non-refundable $30, or requires you to have AppleCare.

Usually, the problem is the other way around for most other companies: they will provide "RMA service," but not "cross-ship service." It seems very strange to me that the free option in the States is not even available at all in Canada, and IMO is a reasonable gripe by the OP.

-- Nathan

[PinkyMacGodess]

I got the rolled up newspaper for my earlier snarky comments on this thread and, embarrassingly freaking deserved it...

I don't remember my mental state at the time I posted my response but I must have had a bad day... Sorry.

The idea of a 'deposit' has been bandied about and was mentioned by the starter of this thread.

This 'deposit' idea usually isn't where they actually 'charge' a deposit (So far as I know, I'll have to contact our book keeper) but is a 'hold' (for lack of a better term) on your credit card for the amount they specify. First it assures that your card 'has room' for the charge if you don't return the part to Apple in the time allotted and second makes most people a little more diligent in returning whatever it is. (Who would want to pay retail for a dead item or part)

I've returned some hugely expensive stuff and had 'deposits' charged (holds placed) to my account and even had a subsequent charge refused because there were 'holds' on a portion of my card limit that would have resulted in the subsequent charge exceeding my limit and I had to wait for the 'hold' to clear and had no issues.

I don't blame the company for wanting a 'marker' placed for the equipment. Heck, I freaked our accountant out once when a part 'wasn't received' by a vendor. The part being returned via an 'advance exchange' was 'lost' by FedEx. The vendor called her up and was all threatening about charging us the whole price of the 'stolen' item. The only thing was it was sent back on the vendor's label and the agreement we signed stated that once it cleared our dock under their label, it was 'out of our hands'. We got the charge reversed, the agent off our back, and an apology too...

I wouldn't worry about the 'deposit'.

(Seagate charges a $30.00 'advance ship fee' to have them ship the replacement drive out that day. There is apparently no other way to get advance exchange from them. For us, it's a choice between 'time' and 'money' and getting the replacement works out to our and the client's advantage)

[Hankcah]

Make the kid buy the new headphones? he prob broke them, or the mrs put them through the wash. Seems like you are looking for an excuse. Good-luck with the PC support too. Ew.

But to try and side with the customer, customer service isn't the same, but Apple reps are just doing their job too. We've all been there.