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Civ IV vs. Civ V

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kontari dasou

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 20, 2010
4
0
As someone who (a) has never played a Civ game but is interested and (b) owns a Mac, I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to wait for the eventual Mac release of Civ V, or to just dive in on Civ IV, despite it being four years old.

I know this is a bit premature, as the game isn't even out yet on a PC, but I had the thought to ask now, so I figured I'd get people's impressions about this before making a decision one way or another.
 
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savvos

macrumors regular
Sep 8, 2007
179
0
Civ IV is very cheap and available on Steam. If you wait for a sale (which might happen just before Civ V is released) you might get a great deal. I picked it up for $10 in the early summer, and that included all the expansion packs. Since then Civ IV has given me dozens of hours of enjoyment. Civ V will be $45+ when it is released.

Another consideration is your hardware. Civ IV runs great on a MacBook with Intel graphics. Civ V will require a much beefier system.

Whatever you choose, I don't think you can go wrong.
 
K

kontari dasou

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 20, 2010
4
0
EmanuelPM said:
There is an open source, free Civ clone that is decent. It doesn't have all the features or pretty graphics of the newer Civ games, but if you aren't sure you like the gameplay it will cost you nothing to try it out before committing money.

http://freeciv.wikia.com/index.php/Freeciv
Click to expand...

I am poring over this right now. Is it good that I'm enjoying just going through the manual strategizing and have yet to actually make a move?
 
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EmanuelPM

macrumors newbie
Apr 14, 2010
5
0
kontari dasou said:
I am poring over this right now. Is it good that I'm enjoying just going through the manual strategizing and have yet to actually make a move?
Click to expand...

Probably means you enjoy the game just fine :). I myself am torn between Civ IV with it's expansions or V. I'm keeping myself busy by finishing other games first so hopefully reviews and a mac port of V will be out when I have time to play. If you find FreeCiv fun, try to hold out as long as you can. But, like savvos said, IV would not be a bad choice at all if you want the larger and more modern game experience.
 
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EmanuelPM

macrumors newbie
Apr 14, 2010
5
0
Reviews are starting to come out. I recommend reading the lower reviews to see what people didn't like about V. I just read the IGN review and it did a good job of comparing to IV. Enough so that I might go IV. You know your tastes and what you find fun so reading the good and bad of both games will help you make the best decision for your money.

V: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/sid-meiers-civilization-v/critic-reviews

List of IV and expansions: http://www.metacritic.com/search/all/Civilization+iv/results
 
B

BertyBoy

macrumors 6502
Feb 1, 2009
326
0
Underneath, it's exactly the same game. And the same as CIV III and Civ III Complete and Civ II and CIV: CTP and original Civ.

The detailed graphics get better with each release, but on a huge 8-player (or more) map, you quickly get tired of the animations, even at 2D and you just want to get on with the game. A winning strategy on a higher difficulty setting can produce a 40-hour game if you skip all the animation and just play it 2D like original Civ.
And there are always new units, buildings and Wonders with new benefits for all existing units and buildings too. So you have to re-learn all the important buuildings and wonders with each new version, but other than that the gameplay and goal is the same across all versions.

They're all great of course, but I couldn't pick one over the other.

If playing a turn-based game is not imperative, you could look at some of the Age of Empires games, Age of Mythology, even Rise of Nations.
 
K

kontari dasou

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 20, 2010
4
0
I have experience with things like Age of Empires and StarCraft... and I suck at them. I don't have the speed in me to do it. Hence my interest here.
 
txa1265

txa1265

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2002
1,035
291
Corning, NY
BertyBoy said:
Underneath, it's exactly the same game. And the same as CIV III and Civ III Complete and Civ II and CIV: CTP and original Civ.
Click to expand...

You mean like how Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is the same as Wolfenstein 3D ...

... and how Dragon Age is the same as Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord?

If that is what you mean, I agree,.
 
R

racketeer71

macrumors regular
Jan 15, 2010
170
0
Civ5 will be another bestseller. No doubt. Sid Meier games and reviewers fit like hand and glove. Even when it's only his name on the box.

But I will personally not be buying the PC version. Nope. There's no reason why it should not be available for Mac on launch date (other than laziness), so in my one-man army I'm going to punish Firaxis for their laziness.

StarCraft II have - slightly - more impressive graphics than Civ5, and for Blizzard it was no biggie to release it for PC and Mac at the same time.
 
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Cougarcat

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2003
7,766
2,553
racketeer71 said:
StarCraft II have - slightly - more impressive graphics than Civ5, and for Blizzard it was no biggie to release it for PC and Mac at the same time.
Click to expand...

StarCraft II also runs like crap in OS X (not that I'm blaming Blizzard). Despite having it installed there, I much prefer to reboot into Windows.

I'm going to wait for the details of the Mac version, but if it's not SteamPlay I will probably just get the PC version when it's on sale.
 
txa1265

txa1265

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2002
1,035
291
Corning, NY
racketeer71 said:
Civ5 will be another bestseller. No doubt. Sid Meier games and reviewers fit like hand and glove. Even when it's only his name on the box.
Click to expand...
I read this as a cynical insinuation that the games are made to get good reviews. I really don't see that - but hey, I'd rather it that way then games that are obviously buying high scores through cash spent on sites

racketeer71 said:
But I will personally not be buying the PC version. Nope. There's no reason why it should not be available for Mac on launch date (other than laziness), so in my one-man army I'm going to punish Firaxis for their laziness.

StarCraft II have - slightly - more impressive graphics than Civ5, and for Blizzard it was no biggie to release it for PC and Mac at the same time.
Click to expand...

Blizzard has had 12 years since Starcraft, Firaxis has had 4 years since Civ IV. And your point is ... ?
 
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Cougarcat

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2003
7,766
2,553
txa1265 said:
Blizzard has had 12 years since Starcraft, Firaxis has had 4 years since Civ IV. And your point is ... ?
Click to expand...

Not to mention that Blizzard has had dedicated Mac programmers since Day 1 of their existence, working alongside the PC developers of the game. Considering Firaxis had to downsize after finishing Civ V, I highly doubt they are in a position to pull a Valve and hire some Mac people.
 
R

racketeer71

macrumors regular
Jan 15, 2010
170
0
txa1265 said:
I read this as a cynical insinuation that the games are made to get good reviews. I really don't see that - but hey, I'd rather it that way then games that are obviously buying high scores through cash spent on sites
Click to expand...

I think the Civ games get good reviews, because they're good games. I just find it slightly amuzing they call virtually all their games "Sid Meier's something", even though he's not the designer.

txa1265 said:
Blizzard has had 12 years since Starcraft, Firaxis has had 4 years since Civ IV. And your point is ... ?
Click to expand...

That's probably one of the most stupid comments I've read on MR. And that says quite a lot. Congratulations with the trophy.

Do you believe it took Blizzard 12 years to release SC2, because they wanted to release the game at the same time for Mac or PC, or what is your point?

In that case, I'll just let you in on a secret: They released WarCraft III 4 years after SC1. And War3 was released in the PPC days, which probably also makes it a bit more difficult. Oh, and they also managed to squeeze in a little game called Diablo 2 between those games. And your point is...?
 
txa1265

txa1265

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2002
1,035
291
Corning, NY
Cougarcat said:
Not to mention that Blizzard has had dedicated Mac programmers since Day 1 of their existence, working alongside the PC developers of the game. Considering Firaxis had to downsize after finishing Civ V, I highly doubt they are in a position to pull a Valve and hire some Mac people.
Click to expand...

Good point - I am personally more annoyed at EA/Bioware over Dragon Age not being on Steam, Mass Effect 2 being held out of OnLive, and the Baldur's Gate / Icewind Dale games not being on Good Old Games (though that apparently might be changing).

Blizzard has been exemplary with Mac support, and I think that is great ... but sadly it is the exception, not the rule.
 
C

Cougarcat

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2003
7,766
2,553
racketeer71 said:
I think the Civ games get good reviews, because they're good games. I just find it slightly amuzing they call virtually all their games "Sid Meier's something", even though he's not the designer.
Click to expand...

He designed the original. His name sells. Welcome to marketing.

racketeer71 said:
That's probably one of the most stupid comments I've read on MR. And that says quite a lot. Congratulations with the trophy.
Click to expand...

And this was the one of the most not-nice comments I've read on MR. Congrats on the trophy. :rolleyes:

racketeer71 said:
Do you believe it took Blizzard 12 years to release SC2, because they wanted to release the game at the same time for Mac or PC, or what is your point?
Click to expand...

I think his point was that the only reason Blizzard was able to release Mac and PC versions at the same time was that they took longer to do it, yes. Thankfully we have you to point out why this is not correct. (Diablo II was a separate team, Blizzard North, but your point still stands: From SC they moved onto WC3, WC3x, and then SC2.)

Firaxis does not have in-house Mac programmers, and they probably won't get any anytime soon, so this discussion is pointless. Either buy the PC version or wait a bit.

miles01110 said:
Does anyone actually have the game yet? Sid Meier's last venture into computer gaming- Spore- was a huge DRM fail. Does Civ V have similarily arcane DRM methods?
Click to expand...

Sid Meier did not do Spore. You're thinking of Will Wright. Civ V uses Steam for its DRM.
 
txa1265

txa1265

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2002
1,035
291
Corning, NY
racketeer71 said:
That's probably one of the most stupid comments I've read on MR. And that says quite a lot. Congratulations with the trophy.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I can't claim the trophy - all I was doing was shining a mirror on the TRUE winner :)

You made a direct statement that a non-release of a Mac Civ V was ONLY related to laziness, and hold up the ONLY company that does across the board Mac / PC same-day releases (well, at least they do NOW) as the standard.

Please show me the start dates, resource allocations, team sizes, project deliverables, and profit estimates that support your assertion that the ONLY reason that Civ V isn't day-and-date a Mac/PC release.

Also, realize that Blizzard and Firaxis are different companies with vastly different business models, and that (jeez I hope you realize this) larger companies assign teams of programmers to simultaneously work on multiple projects, typically at different stages to allow for some overlap ... and that therefore understanding the dynamics of what decisions have exactly what impact is not trivial.

Also realize that while there are market economics at play, and looking at Stardock's Elemental as an example, there are release date windows that companies get from retailers. It is possible that if they didn't release now it would have been next spring, so they decided to allocate resources to finishing the PC version and then work on the Mac port - or get it outsourced. I am not privileged to that information.

Look - you can choose not to buy the PC version for whatever reason you want. But saying it is laziness as the only reason? It just doesn't make sense - there are loads of reasons we Mac gamers end up not getting games in a timely fashion - if at all. Typically laziness isn't in the top 10.
 
Balthezor

Balthezor

macrumors member
Sep 11, 2008
90
0
PA
racketeer71 said:
Civ5 will be another bestseller. No doubt. Sid Meier games and reviewers fit like hand and glove. Even when it's only his name on the box.

But I will personally not be buying the PC version. Nope. There's no reason why it should not be available for Mac on launch date (other than laziness), so in my one-man army I'm going to punish Firaxis for their laziness.

StarCraft II have - slightly - more impressive graphics than Civ5, and for Blizzard it was no biggie to release it for PC and Mac at the same time.
Click to expand...

These are two completely different games and companies. One is a giant, while one, is really not that big, even though they have been extremely successful, but not as successful as Blizzard.

Laziness? Releasing a game compatible for PC and Mac is not a rule, its an exception, like someone else said before me. Blizzard has made the exception of having their games work for Mac for years. Firaxis on the other hand, and most other developers out there haven't.

End result: Your punishment and your reasoning just plain sucks.
 
txa1265

txa1265

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2002
1,035
291
Corning, NY
Cougarcat said:
Civ V uses Steam for its DRM.
Click to expand...

That was one reason I just grabbed it on Steam ... there were some better pre-order deals out there, but I could pre-load and when I go to take my son to piano lessons this afternoon I will be able to play some Civ!

Balthezor said:
End result: Your punishment and your reasoning just plain sucks.
Click to expand...

My point was that while I think his reasoning doesn't hold out under the weight of scrutiny, his 'punishment' is his own choice ...
 
S

sarcosis

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2006
591
8
These United States
txa1265 said:
Sorry, I can't claim the trophy - all I was doing was shining a mirror on the TRUE winner :)

You made a direct statement that a non-release of a Mac Civ V was ONLY related to laziness, and hold up the ONLY company that does across the board Mac / PC same-day releases (well, at least they do NOW) as the standard.

Please show me the start dates, resource allocations, team sizes, project deliverables, and profit estimates that support your assertion that the ONLY reason that Civ V isn't day-and-date a Mac/PC release.

Also, realize that Blizzard and Firaxis are different companies with vastly different business models, and that (jeez I hope you realize this) larger companies assign teams of programmers to simultaneously work on multiple projects, typically at different stages to allow for some overlap ... and that therefore understanding the dynamics of what decisions have exactly what impact is not trivial.

Also realize that while there are market economics at play, and looking at Stardock's Elemental as an example, there are release date windows that companies get from retailers. It is possible that if they didn't release now it would have been next spring, so they decided to allocate resources to finishing the PC version and then work on the Mac port - or get it outsourced. I am not privileged to that information.

Look - you can choose not to buy the PC version for whatever reason you want. But saying it is laziness as the only reason? It just doesn't make sense - there are loads of reasons we Mac gamers end up not getting games in a timely fashion - if at all. Typically laziness isn't in the top 10.
Click to expand...

Can't be said better than this. It's plain and simple economics, most gamers are windows users, hence the PC only release. It would cost far too much to develop a OS X version right away since most games these days use the DirectX libraries that Microsoft provides them. For game developers, many are far more familiar with Direct X vs. OpenGL.

It's not as simple as changing a little bit of the code. It takes a great amount of over head, actual development, testing and then marketing. While Blizzard does this since it believes that there is enough of a market to justify the cost of developing a Mac version at the same time.
 
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