Urgent Advice Needed RE: Ebay RAM Sale

[sound kev]

A few days ago i sold two 4GB Hynix RAM modules to a buyer on Ebay (UK)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110585681497&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123#ht_2653wt_1139

They had been removed from a 2008 Octo 3.2Ghz Mac Pro and were working perfectly .
I originally had 4 of these modules , the other two were sold separately on Ebay prior to this auction without any problems .

Shortly after dispatch i received the following message from the buyer:

Hi,

I received the ram today well packaged. Unfortunately after trying numerous configurations I've found that one of the sticks appears to not work within my machine. Having tried every combination I've still not managed to get the ram working. Could you please supply me with your postal address so I can return or contact me on **** ****** if you have any solutions.

I replied:

Hi ,
i can't understand how the RAM would not work , it was
thoroughly tested on the day of dispatch and found to be
functioning 100% .
would you mind describing your installation process please ?
how much RAM was already installed in your MAC ?
having installed RAM many times in Apple Macs myself-
the best advice i can give is to go back and check that the sticks
are seated correctly . there should be a definite 'click' as the
pins locate into the slot and the latches secure themselves . this
sometimes requires a degree of gentle force .
before we start discussing returns i would urge you to take a
look a my 'auction returns policy' .
i am sure this is a problem that can be resolved with minimal
fuss !


he replied:

Thank you for the email back. I will do as you say and retry everything and while I understand you don't accept returns if my machine keeps showing 1 stick of ram as faulty I will have no alternative but to discuss options.

For the time being let me spend some more time trying to get them working and lets re-visit this early next week and hopefully by then I can have some positive news for you.

i replied:

Hi ,
no problem .
i am aware that it can sometimes take a couple
of tries , seating and re-seating a module , before it finally works .
unfortunately upgrading RAM is slightly more involved than just
plugging the sticks in and rebooting .
if you haven't done so already i would suggest reading the Mac Pro
manual .
i wouldn't dream of selling anything that i knew to be faulty .
i have sold two other modules of the same RAM without any
problems.
i appreciate your concerns, but as you say , lets revisit this after
you have taken another look .


and the latest message:

Just to let you know where things are at. I ran a diagnosis on the ram using Rember which fired back several errors. So far today the machine has had 3 Kernal Panics and 2 screen freezes while running this ram.

I'm sorry to say I'm going to have to send these back to you as faulty and therefore not matching the item description voiding your return policy under eBay regulations, (although I'm sure this was not known to you at the point of sale), if it's of any help I can send you the screen log produced by rember.

Could you supply me with your address and I will arrange for these to be sent back first thing tomorrow.


I was initially angry and slightly suspicious of this buyers eagerness to send the RAM back .
I asked him to describe his installation process ... which he didn't .
For all i know he may not have worn an earthing strap or followed any installation protocol whatsoever .
I asked him if he already had RAM installed as i've read that mixing different types of RAM can also cause problems .
I have never heard of the Rember software .
I would really appreciate it if someone could advise me on the freezes and kernal panics he is getting .
Would that be caused by faulty RAM ?

As far as i am concerned , if the RAM IS faulty it's because of HIS actions .
It was 100% working when it left me .
Where that leaves me legally .... i don't know .
I would like to think it's a case of caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) , but with Ebay/Paypal anything is possible .

For the benefit of other members i will update this thread as and when things transpire .

At the moment it hasn't escalated to 'dispute' level .

thanks in advance .

SK

BTW - his machine :

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8

[vogelhausdesign]

That's a tough situation due to the sensitive nature of RAM. Did you document your testing prior to shipping? Did you use static proof packaging with proper protection from impact? I'd say if you have these documents then you have a case to discuss with eBay because you have evidence that the buyer mishandled the product.

Also they might have been damaged in shipping, did you opt for insurance? If not, and you didn't document your testing I'd say you're SOL.

[DualShock]

You should probably also mention to the buyer explicitly that RAM for a Mac Pro must be installed in a certain way (how to group the pairs). IIRC, for only 2 sticks (one pair), 1 stick goes on each riser. Two pairs, each pair goes on a separate riser, etc. etc.

You did mention to him/her to read the manual, but it might be a good idea to also link to the specific pdf on Apple's support site, as well as the pg in the manual. I remember there being a picture and an explanation in the manual about how you're supposed to pair up the sticks.

[xUKHCx]

Did you run a memtest on the ram before sending it? If not then how do you know it was 100% fine.

In future for anyone selling ram I would recommend running a memtest and printing out a report, one for you to keep and one to place in the package for the buyer.

Kernel panics can most definitely be caused by faulty ram.

http://www.kelleycomputing.net/rember/

[sound kev]

That's a tough situation due to the sensitive nature of RAM. Did you document your testing prior to shipping? Did you use static proof packaging with proper protection from impact? I'd say if you have these documents then you have a case to discuss with eBay because you have evidence that the buyer mishandled the product.

Also they might have been damaged in shipping, did you opt for insurance? If not, and you didn't document your testing I'd say you're SOL.

thanks for your replies so far everyone .

the RAM was packaged extremely carefully ; anti static bags for both modules,
each wrapped in bubble wrap, encased in a sturdy cardboard box and finished off with waxed (waterproof) parcel paper .
I tested the memory under TechTool Pro but didn't save the results *bashing own head* .
Insurance was taken on postage .

It was stated on the auction that no returns were accepted .
Otherwise what would stop someone from damaging the RAM on installation and just sending it back .... or even buying my RAM and switching it with one of their own faulty modules ?
:(

[philipma1957]

I am a long time seller of computer parts on ebay. Take them back and give a full refund.. Sellers even someone with 500 or more perfect feedback will almost always lose in this type of fight.

There are 4 possibilities here

A) you sold good ram and he broke it
B) you sold good ram and he is changing it with his bad ram
C) good ram was damaged in shipping
D) you sold bad ram on purpose

Since the buyer is covered for C and is covered for D.

You would only be able to win this if you can prove A or prove B.

Proving A is close to impossible without many photos of the ram in the listing showing it to be not burned or melted then he returns burned or melted ram.

Proving B is also very hard to do.

You would need to have taken a lot of photos in the listing and place a small mark that the buyer missed. Then when you got the ram back his dead replacement switch would be caught since it has not small mark.


Of course you could get them back and put them in your machine and find out they work. Then just sell them again and figure he is a moron. It is very hard to be a seller on ebay. Good luck with this.

[philipma1957]

...

....It was stated on the auction that no returns were accepted ....




:(




Meaningless saying no returns does not apply to selling broken gear. I believe you but winning this would be next to impossible.. If you have 500 good feedbacks and 0 bad ones and the buyer is 50 good feed backs and 10 bad ones maybe you could win. It is very hard to win these as a seller.. Myself I don't sell valuable ram without it being registered with a unique serial number. Just Like all the mac minis i sold I have a list of all the serial numbers to stop switches from bad buyers. Take the return and hope for the best. Maybe it will be working ram.

[ActionableMango]

Does the buyer have a good and long feedback history? If so, I'd take it back. If not... well, I'm not sure what I'd do.

[sboerup]

I am a long time seller of computer parts on ebay. Take them back and give a full refund.. Sellers even someone with 500 or more perfect feedback will almost always lose in this type of fight.

There are 4 possibilities here

A) you sold good ram and he broke it
B) you sold good ram and he is changing it with his bad ram
C) good ram was damaged in shipping
D) you sold bad ram on purpose

Since the buyer is covered for C and is covered for D.

You would only be able to win this if you can prove A or prove B.

Proving A is close to impossible without many photos of the ram in the listing showing it to be not burned or melted then he returns burned or melted ram.

Proving B is also very hard to do.

You would need to have taken a lot of photos in the listing and place a small mark that the buyer missed. Then when you got the ram back his dead replacement switch would be caught since it has not small mark.


Of course you could get them back and put them in your machine and find out they work. Then just sell them again and figure he is a moron. It is very hard to be a seller on ebay. Good luck with this.

Agree very much with this. How important is your eBay reputation and how much is it worth? You don't really have any kind of room for wiggle. Chalk it up as a cost of doing business, sucks but not much you can do.

[Sean Dempsey]

i am aware that it can sometimes take a couple
of tries , seating and re-seating a module , before it finally works .
unfortunately upgrading RAM is slightly more involved than just
plugging the sticks in and rebooting .




In over 17 years of upgrading RAM, I've never know this to be the case.

[Novablas]

As someone who sold a fully working dual 3.0 2006 Mac Pro to someone for $1850 on eBay, get your money out of your Paypal account NOW and always get it out immediately, otherwise if the buyer complains they will hold it and give it back to them.

With more expensive stuff, people like to take advantage of Paypal's buyer protection and just claim something is broken, hoping to get a partial refund and if not, at least they wasted your time and money on eBay listings. Oh, and they have to ship it back too so you KNOW they're gonna skimp.

Always take lots and lots of pictures (my MP auction had over 20 pics). And always get the full insurance possible on shipping expensive items.

Your options are if you don't want to return the money at all since you aren't in the wrong to file a claim with the shipper you used, or to get your money out of your paypal account before they freeze it and open a new eBay account with a new bank account and new paypal account.

[kultschar]

I just went thru a nightmare with Paypal after selling an item, I was advised that Paypal will favour the buyer and they were right.

In the end I had a really strong case (I was selling a Replica guitar item and Replica was the first word in the listing title) anyhow the buyer complained saying it was a replica not the real thing, i explained of course its a bloody replica as its the first word of the listing, end result... Paypal bottled it and gave seller a refund on condition the seller sent it back.

I believe this is what will happen here as Paypal seem to deem that this action is a win win situation for both parties. They dont give a damn that your ite mcould have been sabotaged or the huge inconvenience of having to resell it all over again.

I take my money out of paypal instantly but Paypal wil still freeze the money givig you a negative balance until dispute resolved.

Another infuriating thing if it goes to a dispute is that you have a maximum character count on their form to defend your case. I had so much to say in my defence but I could not submit all the info and had to edit several times my summary.

PS - be careful, the seller could send a empty package with a tracking number and also still get his money back, this is a common scam His word against yours etc but he looks good as he has a tracking number

[sound kev]

In over 17 years of upgrading RAM, I've never know this to be the case.

In over 20 years of upgrading RAM , i have ...
i appreciate your input :cool:

[MysticColby]

As someone who sold a fully working dual 3.0 2006 Mac Pro to someone for $1850 on eBay, get your money out of your Paypal account NOW and always get it out immediately, otherwise if the buyer complains they will hold it and give it back to them.

that won't necessarily help. my friend sold a xbox, buyer paid, he sent it and withdrew money to bank account, 3 days after sending it buyer did paypal claim that item never arrived and got a refund, which paypal took out of my friend's bank account as there were insufficient funds in his paypal account. good news: friend has good history with bank and was able to get bank to not give paypal money. bad news: no more using paypal.


I bought RAM on ebay once. I installed it no problem, computer recognized, but SC kept crashing after like 2 minutes of playing. took RAM out, SC worked fine. I didn't even bother with ebay seller - who needs that stress? I just sent the RAM to kingston and requested a replacement, as they have a lifetime warranty :D got replacement and it worked fine.

[sound kev]

Thanks again for all the input .

Shortly after posting , i found the System Profile record I had saved in Time Machine .

I also have tons of pictures in my camera which clearly show the condition and serial numbers .

Wether this is all enough or not ... we shall see .

The buyer (who - to be fair - has a 153 star 100% feedback score) has opened a case in the Resolution Centre which was inevitable i suppose .

I will update the thread as and when developments occur .

I fully understand the doubters on here ... it's just my word ... but i know the RAM was good so , regardless of Ebay or PayPal i will do what i think is the right thing .

[philipma1957]

... regardless of Ebay or PayPal i will do what i think is the right thing .


Let us know the result please.

So it is *beber* 78 and 0 feedback against whomever the buyer was at 153 and 0. Since you are in the UK I do wonder if you can win. IN the usa you would lose unless the ram he is holding looks burned or does not match your photo. UK law may differ then USA law.

[Sean Dempsey]

Thanks again for all the input .

Shortly after posting , i found the System Profile record I had saved in Time Machine .

I also have tons of pictures in my camera which clearly show the condition and serial numbers .

Wether this is all enough or not ... we shall see .

The buyer (who - to be fair - has a 153 star 100% feedback score) has opened a case in the Resolution Centre which was inevitable i suppose .

I will update the thread as and when developments occur .

I fully understand the doubters on here ... it's just my word ... but i know the RAM was good so , regardless of Ebay or PayPal i will do what i think is the right thing .

You realize that when you touched the RAM with your hands to remove it from the Mac Pro and put it in your shipping package, you could have easily zapped it with static electricity?

Did you wear a static band when touching it? Was the machine and yourself properly grounded?

I'm not saying this happened - but you easily could have been responsible for ruining the RAM after you removed it from your Mac Pro, touched it and zapped it without realizing it, and then shipped ruined RAM.

[WardC]

International shipments like this go through several X-ray machines with high power magnets. These could easily have damaged the RAM.

[sound kev]

You realize that when you touched the RAM with your hands to remove it from the Mac Pro and put it in your shipping package, you could have easily zapped it with static electricity?

Did you wear a static band when touching it? Was the machine and yourself properly grounded?

I'm not saying this happened - but you easily could have been responsible for ruining the RAM after you removed it from your Mac Pro, touched it and zapped it without realizing it, and then shipped ruined RAM.


excuse the insolence but ... durrrrrrrrrrrr :D
i am fully aware of the dangers associated with ESD ...
i never go in unstrapped .

actually - joking aside - it's a valid point .
go on YouTube and you'll be shocked at the amount of so called 'tutorials' where the 'tutor' is not grounded .

[sound kev]

International shipments like this go through several X-ray machines with high power magnets. These could easily have damaged the RAM.

1. it wasn't an international shipment .
2. anti static bags .

[sound kev]

Let us know the result please.

So it is *beber* 78 and 0 feedback against whomever the buyer was at 153 and 0. Since you are in the UK I do wonder if you can win. IN the usa you would lose unless the ram he is holding looks burned or does not match your photo. UK law may differ then USA law.


yes , true .
i have less positive feedback than him ... he has 2 instances of neutral FB though ...
if he had negative feedback , it may have given me a slight advantage.

[sound kev]

Ok , so i'm in a position where i could go either way here .

i'm still stumped as to what to do .

i'm as certain as anyone could be that i sent out perfect RAM and i have decent evidence to support this .

sadly, from the feedback kindly given on here it appears that - regardless of all the measures i have taken - benefit of the doubt is given to the buyer .

i find this to be unjust .

i do have the option of shutting down my accounts and starting again .

i had already transferred the money out of my Paypal account .
my linked account is also empty now .

i don't particularly want to go that route .

in these situations AFAIK Paypal will pay out the buyer anyway, so justice (as i see it) would not have been done .

trouble is , if i give a refund , i'm left with one 4GB module of RAM that no one will want .
effectively , this has cost me £220 ($350) .

[PhelpsiPhan]

International shipments like this go through several X-ray machines with high power magnets. These could easily have damaged the RAM.

This could definately be the issue

[Spud1]

are you a business or personal seller?

If you are a personal seller you have no obligation to accept returns, provided that the item was as described. If it has been damaged in transit, which is a fair assumption here, then you can tell your buyer to claim on the postal insurance.

It very much depends on how your original auction was worded too - if the words "sold as seen" appear then you are covered and he has no comeback. If its sold as tested + working, then you will need proof that it was in tested + working condition before you sent it.

Basically i'd suggest he claims on the insurance for it and leave it at that.

[cutterman]

Put yourself in his position- what would be fair? Clearly he has bad ram. Maybe it was damaged in shipping (doubtful), maybe he damaged it (possible), maybe it was defective when you prepared and packaged it (possible). I havent used Techtool Pro for memory testing, but I have used memtest, and it basically needs to run overnight to rule out memory defects.

[sound kev]

Put yourself in his position- what would be fair? Clearly he has bad ram. Maybe it was damaged in shipping (doubtful), maybe he damaged it (possible), maybe it was defective when you prepared and packaged it (possible). I havent used Techtool Pro for memory testing, but I have used memtest, and it basically needs to run overnight to rule out memory defects.

true .
i can accept all of those scenarios cutterman .
however , from my perspective - the RAM was more than likely inadvertently damaged by the buyer (due to reasons already discussed).
In which case , i'm finding it very hard to accept that i should have to foot the bill for someone else's negligence !


there is also the possibility that he is using mixed blends of RAM ... he already stated that he'd tried many different "configurations" .

In order to ascertain what RAM he was already using , i asked him right at the start . He didn't reply to that question .

I also asked him to describe his installation process , which he never did .

I'd be interested to learn if anyone has ever come across Kernel Panics etc due to mixing and matching of RAM ?

[cutterman]

In my experience, mostly with PC motherboards, incompatible ram either wont boot or wont be recognized by the bios at boot up. This certainly can happen even if the memory specs are the same- some motherboards are "picky" about memory. However, random freezes and kernel panics are indicative of a bad cell(s), and are exactly the same symptoms I had with a bad ram stick, which was only 3 weeks old. It would be appropriate to try different "configurations" of the available ram and run the memory tester to identify the bad stick.

So I guess another possibility is that the ram went "bad" through no ones direct fault.

[sound kev]

In my experience, mostly with PC motherboards, incompatible ram either wont boot or wont be recognized by the bios at boot up. This certainly can happen even if the memory specs are the same- some motherboards are "picky" about memory. However, random freezes and kernel panics are indicative of a bad cell(s), and are exactly the same symptoms I had with a bad ram stick, which was only 3 weeks old. It would be appropriate to try different "configurations" of the available ram and run the memory tester to identify the bad stick.

So I guess another possibility is that the ram went "bad" through no ones direct fault.


thanks for that insight Cutterman .

in the case of your bad cell(s) scenario , the question is : who should pay ?

lets not forget , this is sold on ebay as 'second hand goods' and with any 'used' purchase there are additional risks .

i feel sorry that this has happened , it could well be a case of pure bad luck but from my point of view , the RAM left me 'as described' - once in the hands of the courier it's their responsibility . Once in the hands of the buyer , it's his responsibility ...

that's not to say i may not still end up paying for this :(

[maflynn]

The problem is that from the buyer's perspective he sees it completely different. He installed ram be bought from ebay and its not working.

In the end, I think if he disputes this, the odds are high that paypal/ebay will side with him. The benefit of the doubt goes towards the buyer. He doesn't have to PROVE that he didn't do anything wrong, but you have prove that the ram was functioning before shipping it out.

[philipma1957]

The problem is that from the buyer's perspective he sees it completely different. He installed ram be bought from ebay and its not working.

In the end, I think if he disputes this, the odds are high that paypal/ebay will side with him. The benefit of the doubt goes towards the buyer. He doesn't have to PROVE that he didn't do anything wrong, but you have prove that the ram was functioning before shipping it out.

the seller has to prove more then the ram was good when he handed it to the shipper he has to prove that the buyer received good ram.

(ie it shipped un harmed) which means ultimately the seller will most likely lose.

[sound kev]

a hypothetical question :

i agree to refund the buyer and the RAM arrives back with physical damage ie 'burned or melted' as described by philipma1957 ?

what do i do ?

i have LOTS of quality photos .

the unique serial numbers are also clearly visible .

i know that after receiving the returned RAM i have three days to make a refund .

[AppleMatt]

I have been selling on eBay UK for nearly 10 years and am legally trained.

I think your best option here is to ask him to return the RAM and offer a partial refund. As has been stated multiple times, buyers are in a bubble of invincibility when it comes to eBay and PayPal - they literally have to burn your house down before they get blame. There are thousands of entirely unjust cases - see eBay UK's own discussion forums - but that's the way it is.

If you're lucky the RAM will work fine when you get it back, and it's just his installation that is causing the problem. If you're unlucky he'll post you am empty box or broken RAM (check to make sure it is the RAM you sent him).

One thing I will say that lends credence to his argument; he's claiming only one is broke, and he offered to return it. That's fairly plausible.

If the RAM is returned clearly damaged? I'm not sure of the PayPal position, but I expect the refund will close the case. You can't re-open a closed case. So you'd be screwed, and if you really wanted to, have to pursue him with a letter before action (you'd win, but not sure I'd bother suing someone for £200).

I'm really sorry this has happened, but unfortunately sellers consistently get absolutely screwed by eBay. You can try and fight it, but you'll waste a hell of a lot of energy and time for something you can't change the outcome of. From a legal standpoint, eBay have long maintained they are just agents bringing buyers and sellers together so are exempt from liability. However, there's increasing belief that the level of involvement and control they have in the contract formation and execution - which is leading to thousands of legally incorrect and unjust decisions - has created legal obligations. It's just up to someone to have a test case. Unfortunately, as most auctions are low value, no-one's going to take this to the Court of Appeal (which costs tens of thousands of pounds in legal fees alone). So, like letting agents in the UK, eBay exist in a legal bubble where they can make the rules up as they go along and get away with it.

AppleMatt

[sound kev]

Massively appreciated that post AppleMatt .

As much as it's not what i want to hear - after scouring the web for hours it more or less sums up everything i've read .

Ebay - a buyers playground ... sellers beware .

I think i'm ready to offer him half of the final fee in exchange for the (possibly) damaged module .

Just waiting for him to send me his system profiler report before i make the offer .
He's been very reluctant to send it (i've asked him three times) so i'm clinging to the faint hope that he's hiding something .

cheers .

[Gomff]

Sound Kev, I'm also sorry about your predicament and sympathize totally. I've sold various electronic items via ebay without incident but reading this thread makes me wonder whether I have been lucky to avoid your experience in this case.

My gut feeling is that the buyer may well have unwittingly damaged the RAM and is perhaps convinced that it was already damaged when they received it. My reasoning is that they offered to retry everything before asking for a refund, rather than just demanding a refund more aggressively and backing it up with threats and so on, which would perhaps give away prior experience in ebay disputes.....I don't know, just a hunch I guess.

I think it's also perfectly possible that you could get the RAM back and it works just as before and it's an issue with his RAM config somehow. Either way, I would suggest trying a sensible and conciliatory approach along the lines of "Look, I sold you this in good faith, I know it was working when it left me. Obviously something has happened between that point and when you installed it so let's split the difference". You could also pursue a postal insurance claim as well.....That's what it's there for.

Whatever way you decide to handle this, Good luck mate. Maybe next time Craig's list could be worth considering....The UK site has a burgeoning electronics & computers section and there's no paypal in site.

[sound kev]

Hey , many thanks Gomff for another very helpful reply .

My gut instinct was that something wasn't right from the start .
Others may disagree .
Within a couple of hours of delivery the buyer was asking for my address and a full refund .
After my reply he then said :

'For the time being let me spend some more time trying to get them working and lets re-visit this early next week and hopefully by then I can have some positive news for you'


He didn't actually do as he said .
While checking my emails on Sunday evening i saw he had opened an Ebay Resolution Centre Case which i thought was pretty rude considering we had exchanged civil emails up till then in which i had offered him advice that he appeared to appreciate ... followed by the above statement about re-visiting this early next week .

This morning I have emailed him directly - once again requesting a System Profiler Report (gained with just my RAM installed) .

In an earlier message he said the following :

Buyer's message:
"I'm not interested in having an argument with the seller. I am familiar with the installation of ram and this is the first instance where I have discovered a fault. I don't dispute how it shows up in System Profiler, as it wasn't until I ran Rember (a dedicated Ram testing software) that it found the fault within the ram that was causing the Kernel Panics and shut downs.



sounds as if he has run the System Profiler and the RAM has shown up as OK ?

it would certainly explain why he has resisted sending me the report .

[cutterman]

Just because the ram shows up in system profiler does not mean it's good. The faults occur during the course of reads and writes to the specific region of the memory that's bad. The machine may boot just fine and seem normal when not under load.

I get the sense your buyer is an experienced computer user and not deliberately trying to rip you off.

[Gomff]

Hmm. Now I'm a bit more suspicious of the buyer from your last post Kev. Has he confirmed to you that he's run his system with just your RAM in it and that it has produced shut downs / Kernel Panics?

I have a strong suspicion that provided he returns the exact RAM sticks that you sold him, that you will find they're fine. Gut feeling is that it's an issue with his system somehow.

TBH....If I were in your shoes I'd cut my losses and give the guy his refund.....It's hard work building up a good feedback score on ebay and not worth jeopardizing it over one deal like this.

And again, maybe Craig's List could be an option for the future. I'm sure ut has it's own pitfalls but they seem to be the opposite of those on ebay. Paypal is a pain in the backside these days.....:(

[philipma1957]

....
I have a strong suspicion that provided he returns the exact RAM sticks that you sold him, that you will find they're fine. Gut feeling is that it's an issue with his system somehow.

TBH....If I were in your shoes I'd cut my losses and give the guy his refund.....It's hard work building up a good feedback score on ebay and not worth jeopardizing it over one deal like this.

And again, maybe Craig's List could be an option for the future. I'm sure ut has it's own pitfalls but they seem to be the opposite of those on ebay. Paypal is a pain in the backside these days.....:(

I don't gamble anymore, but if I had to make a bet I would bet on the above. I used to get a ton of 4gb ram sticks from www.superbiiz.com ddr2 1066 200 pin for mac minis and imacs. They also worked in macbook pros. Every once in a while a stick would work in a mini and work in an imac but fail in a macbook pro. Took me a while to figure out why. The sticks did not like ocz ssd's if they were in a macbook pro. I had to take back 3 pairs of sticks and all of them worked in my mac mini's and my imac I sold them all as mac mini sticks and had 0 problems. If both of you are being complete and honest it could be his machine has something that will not work with your sticks. Best to refund and hope. Good luck with this, Phil

[sound kev]

I don't gamble anymore, but if I had to make a bet I would bet on the above. I used to get a ton of 4gb ram sticks from www.superbiiz.com ddr2 1066 200 pin for mac minis and imacs. They also worked in macbook pros. Every once in a while a stick would work in a mini and work in an imac but fail in a macbook pro. Took me a while to figure out why. The sticks did not like ocz ssd's if they were in a macbook pro. I had to take back 3 pairs of sticks and all of them worked in my mac mini's and my imac I sold them all as mac mini sticks and had 0 problems. If both of you are being complete and honest it could be his machine has something that will not work with your sticks. Best to refund and hope. Good luck with this, Phil

thanks Phil .

I would like this to be the case .

I'm currently waiting to hear back from Ebay .

[sound kev]

Apologies for the long delay but for the benefit of anyone who may find themselves in this kind of situation in the future i thought i'd update this thread now the issue has finally been resolved .

So Ebay gave my buyer a full refund - apparently they do this if Paypal are unable to recover the full amount from the sellers linked account ... which in my case they couldn't as i had transferred it into another account .

They then issued me with an invoice for the full amount ... with the threat that the debt would be passed on to a collection agency if not paid up .

At this point i was ready to call it quits and pay the money ... until ...
the seller returns the RAM to me and it's covered in grease/oil .
I could not believe it ! this stuff was literally everywhere .
As far as i'm concerned it's ruined .
I haven't got a clue what it is or why it's there .
Maybe it's a lubricant or a cleaning fluid - i'm flummoxed .

I immediately lodged an appeal - which has taken MONTHS !!!

I sent in photographic and documentary evidence to backup my counter claim .

Soon after this , my account was suspended .

The following weeks/months have been spent phoning, emailing and writing to Ebay . I have been lied to , fobbed off and passed from pillar to post .
All the while i have kept detailed transcripts of every conversation - dated , logged etc ... very important, as without these i believe i would still be going round in circles now .
A few days ago i finally spoke to someone in customer services who made a judgement on my appeal - in my favor .
So Ebay swallow the cost .

I definitely would not have gone through all this if i felt the fault laid with me. It was a matter of principle . I believe this buyer damaged the RAM and tried to blame me .

The only disappointment now is that Ebay are adamant that they can't remove the negative feedback which was left for me by the buyer ...
a ludicrous scenario really , seeing as my appeal was upheld and i was cleared of any wrong doing . I'm working on it though .

As a final piece of advice to anyone like me who is selling on Ebay , i would just reiterate what has already been said here - take lots of photos of your item before dispatch .. run as many software tests as possible (backup the results) ... make sure it is packed extremely well (photograph it in it's packed state) and finally , make sure it is sent fully insured and signed for at the other end .
You can still end up falling foul of an unscrupulous buyer , but at least you have a chance of recovering your money at the end :cool:

Thanks and Best of luck :D

[philipma1957]

first off thanks for getting back to us. well it is a shame for the aggravation but you were right it was damage done by him.

don't feel so bad right now I have a case for 1200 usd going on. 3 weeks and waiting. I will win it but will have to wait at least 15 more days for my money.

[cutterman]

Wow- a sobering experience. Thanks for sharing. .

I will definitely remember this next time I sell anything of value on Ebay.