Convince me to buy a MAC.

[YoYoMac]

Ok, Long story short, my Alienware Laptop ($3700) died after only a year and a half of use. I live in China, so I can't send it back to Florida to get fixed any time soon. I'm getting sick of this whole "PC" business. My nextdoor neighbor, a mac owner for a long time, has introduced me to the world of macs, and so far I'm fairly convinced that I should invest in one. But I want some other opinions.

He has a Rev A 15" powerbook, which I have played with for a few minutes at a time. I was impressed that it was a year old and it seemed pretty responsive. I'm used to a 3.0 ghz "desktop replacement" model. The fact that I couldn't put my old Alienware on my actual lap never really entered my mind until he set his nice shiney PB on my lap. It was light, thin, and worked great. But I still have some questions in my mind.

How long will the current PB line last? I mean, I've been reading about the Dual Core and G5 for weeks now. I guess I should rather say months. I am planning to wait until MSWF, but if they don't release anything to impressive, what should I do? I don't want to be without a laptop any longer. It's been 3 months now since my laptop died and I've been stuck with my wife's 12" Averatec "Poodle" laptop. I say poodle because it's so small that my fingers get cramped when I type a lot. (Like now)

How long will the current PB line be "gaming worthy." Are they gaming worthy now? I am a total game freak, but since my Alienware died, I've lost some of my interest in the PC games. Mainly because I can't play them. But I think that once I get a mac, I'll want a few of the titles that I used to play a lot. Warcraft 3, Unreal Tourny 04, Spinter Cell, Sim City 4, and Ghost Recon. How well would say a PB 15" 1.5 with 512 Ram and the 128 V play those games? Can I expect it to perform as a PC laptop of the same specs?

I'm sorry this is long. :o

About the screen of the 15" The resolution is kind of low I think for a 15" widescreen. Will it be restricted to this screen resolution if I use an external monitor at home? On the road, i think the resolution would be okay, but at home for long periods of Movie editing, Photoshoping, Web develepment, and Garagebanding, I think I'd want a little more screen room.

My final question is, has anyone ever bought a Mac in Thailand? :) China prices are 15% higher than any other country, so I have a 3 week window in Thailand to buy a PB. How long does it usually take to get a upgraded PB? I'm going with the 128v, 5200RPM, and I'm NOT taking the superdrive. 2 weeks? 3 weeks?

I guess I'm just writing this because my wife is sick of me mentioning it. But if anyone has any reasonable answers to my questions, I'd be grateful.

Also, this forum rocks. I love reading your posts on what you think will happen in January. I'm trying to be a pessimist, but its hard.

Again, sorry this is so long. It's my first post, so I gotta take a lot of space. :)

[CaptainCaveMann]

Ok, Long story short, my Alienware Laptop ($3700) died after only a year and a half of use. I live in China, so I can't send it back to Florida to get fixed any time soon. I'm getting sick of this whole "PC" business. My nextdoor neighbor, a mac owner for a long time, has introduced me to the world of macs, and so far I'm fairly convinced that I should invest in one. But I want some other opinions.

He has a Rev A 15" powerbook, which I have played with for a few minutes at a time. I was impressed that it was a year old and it seemed pretty responsive. I'm used to a 3.0 ghz "desktop replacement" model. The fact that I couldn't put my old Alienware on my actual lap never really entered my mind until he set his nice shiney PB on my lap. It was light, thin, and worked great. But I still have some questions in my mind.

How long will the current PB line last? I mean, I've been reading about the Dual Core and G5 for weeks now. I guess I should rather say months. I am planning to wait until MSWF, but if they don't release anything to impressive, what should I do? I don't want to be without a laptop any longer. It's been 3 months now since my laptop died and I've been stuck with my wife's 12" Averatec "Poodle" laptop. I say poodle because it's so small that my fingers get cramped when I type a lot. (Like now)

How long will the current PB line be "gaming worthy." Are they gaming worthy now? I am a total game freak, but since my Alienware died, I've lost some of my interest in the PC games. Mainly because I can't play them. But I think that once I get a mac, I'll want a few of the titles that I used to play a lot. Warcraft 3, Unreal Tourny 04, Spinter Cell, Sim City 4, and Ghost Recon. How well would say a PB 15" 1.5 with 512 Ram and the 128 V play those games? Can I expect it to perform as a PC laptop of the same specs?

I'm sorry this is long. :o

About the screen of the 15" The resolution is kind of low I think for a 15" widescreen. Will it be restricted to this screen resolution if I use an external monitor at home? On the road, i think the resolution would be okay, but at home for long periods of Movie editing, Photoshoping, Web develepment, and Garagebanding, I think I'd want a little more screen room.

My final question is, has anyone ever bought a Mac in Thailand? :) China prices are 15% higher than any other country, so I have a 3 week window in Thailand to buy a PB. How long does it usually take to get a upgraded PB? I'm going with the 128v, 5200RPM, and I'm NOT taking the superdrive. 2 weeks? 3 weeks?

I guess I'm just writing this because my wife is sick of me mentioning it. But if anyone has any reasonable answers to my questions, I'd be grateful.

Also, this forum rocks. I love reading your posts on what you think will happen in January. I'm trying to be a pessimist, but its hard.

Again, sorry this is so long. It's my first post, so I gotta take a lot of space. :)Viruses,spyware,adware enough said. But i will add more, how about not having a bunch of crap on your comp you dont want or need like trial software all over the place as if it was white on rice.Pardon that. A unix based os as well. Apples got it right when it comes to the os.

[Blue Velvet]

I don't want to be without a laptop any longer.

Only one cure for that but wait to see how the land lies if you can... bear in mind anything they announce won't be available immediately but it may push prices down of other models.

I am a total game freak.

Are you sure you want a Mac, then?
Limited & often expensive range of games, limited video-cards (many say)...

Edit: Just realised I did a very poor job of convincing you.
Get a Mac: you know you want one. You've been bitten and nothing less will do.
p.s. Love the handle!

[YoYoMac]

Are you sure you want a Mac, then?
Limited & often expensive range of games, limited video-cards (many say)...

I am a game freak, but since my laptop died, I've been using the PS2 for most of my gaming needs and I think I'm going to stick with it. Also, when I return home in 2006, I'd probably just get a desktop for games anyway. But how would a PB play those games at this point in time? The games that I listed.

Also, just for fun. I'm going to post some of my original article in the Alienware forums and see what people say. I'll try to get them to convince me to NOT buy a mac. I have a feeling I know what they'll say already. :)

[Rod Rod]

Getting a build-to-order machine shipped to another country is likely to be difficult, unless you know someone who lives in that other country and they're willing to place the order and receive it for you.

If your PowerBook budget is anything like your Alienware budget was, you could get a 17" with 2GB (non-Apple) RAM and all the other trimmings. But saving $1000 is also a good idea, especially if that extra 1.7" of width, 0.7" of depth and 1.2 lbs / 0.5 Kg is too much to handle.

What I'd do if I were you is get a basic iBook as a sort of learning experience, use it for a few months, and then when the revised PowerBooks come out (dual core or whatever it may be), pass the iBook on to the wife (who by then will probably really want the iBook anyhow). That plan falls apart though if your wife has PC-only applications she needs for her job.

The reason I'm suggesting this plan is it will make the waiting much easier.

Also, just for fun. I'm going to post some of my original article in the Alienware forums and see what people say. I'll try to get them to convince me to NOT buy a mac. I have a feeling I know what they'll say already. :)

Please post a link to that thread. :)

[Blue Velvet]

But how would a PB play those games at this point in time? The games that I listed.

I don't play a lot of games on my machine.

Why don't you spend a little time in this (http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18) forum?

Read a little, do some searches, ask some questions... I hear they're nice people over there. :)

[MikeLaRiviere]

YoYoMac, can you link me to the Alienware forum? (I'm a Mac user, but gaming is of interest to me and my brother is looking at Aliens.)

[crazzyeddie]

All the games you listed will run fine on that Powerbook, but not as well as they did on your Alienware.

[CaptainCaveMann]

YoYoMac, can you link me to the Alienware forum? (I'm a Mac user, but gaming is of interest to me and my brother is looking at Aliens.)Didnt you read his horror story about alien ware? They suck dude dont waste your money. Build a gaming desktop yourself wayyyy better.And if you want a gaming laptop but the dell xps or whatever its called it got awesome reviews from zdnet.com :D

[PlaceofDis]

for the games and other apps in general you will probably want a bit more than 512mb of ram though, OS X likes ram, can never have enough

[CaptainCaveMann]

I am a game freak, but since my laptop died, I've been using the PS2 for most of my gaming needs and I think I'm going to stick with it. Also, when I return home in 2006, I'd probably just get a desktop for games anyway. But how would a PB play those games at this point in time? The games that I listed.

Also, just for fun. I'm going to post some of my original article in the Alienware forums and see what people say. I'll try to get them to convince me to NOT buy a mac. I have a feeling I know what they'll say already. :)Please dont post that crap here. Im sure most of us already know a lot about windows laptops thats why were here in the MAC forum ;)

[MikeLaRiviere]

I know. Frankly, my brother will probably get something from iBuyPower, which will cost less than building it himself. My last homebuilt didn't end up working well (probably an OS problem, it was a beta version). But I'm curious to see what they say in the Alien forums.

[jsw]

As other have said, the gaming on the PB will fall far short of what you're used to (aside from WCIII - I swear you could play that on a TRS-80 Model III and still get excellent performance...). If gaming is critical to you, the PB will not make you happy.

However, if gaming is important but not critical, the PB will play fine but will provide you with a wealth of other joys. Safety from spyware, viruses, and the like is one important benefit (and, yes, Macs will eventually fall prey to those things, but never on a PC scale). Integration of so many applications (like iLife) is another. It's a bit maudlin to say, but I think it's true that you will actually enjoy using OS X in and of itself in addition to any particular apps. I use Windows every day, and I like some of the apps I use, but Windows is always a means to the end of using those apps to me - Windows itself provides me with no joy whatsoever. OS X is actually fun to use. It's an amazing difference... I hope you find out.

[maya]

There is no need to convince YoYoMac, into either converting to the Mac OS platform since the who idea that this person posted here in the first reason shows that they have a lot of interest and just want reassurance.

If you are going to buy one or not, its an investment and every users experiences differ even with the same OS and machine.


All the best in your purchase. :)

[Jsmit]

Somehow I posted in the wrong thread, sorry.

[YoYoMac]

Please dont post that crap here. Im sure most of us already know a lot about windows laptops thats why were here in the MAC forum ;)

Don't worry, I'm not going to post any of it. But I will give the link.

http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?p=588006#post588006

For the guy who's brother is looking at AW. Tell them to stop right now. If you just gotta have a super blazing Laptop, I'd go with Dell or Sager. Sager right now seems to be on top of things in the pc laptop realm.

I guess I should make it clear that even though I said I'm a game freak, now that I haven't had my laptop for awhile, my enthusiasm for games has curbed slightly. I'm not gonna really care about the new games, I can't buy them here anyway, unless I go buy a copy of the streets for .50 cents that doesnt' work.

I think that Maya is a remarkably perceptive poster, becuase I think I have made up my mind, I just want some reassurance. :D

[MikeLaRiviere]

Thanks. Can you link me to the Sager site?

[MikeLaRiviere]

Nevermind, found it.

[lordmac]

Wow im amazed by the lack of mac bashing that went on on that forum thread you posted on the alienware forums. And the bashing that did go on sounded like it came from someone rather stupid as none of it was backed and were just commen mis-conceptions. BUt there were actully quite a few posters with helpful advice. Of course the responces here were better in my opinion :). As for reasurence you will love the mac its so much better for doing basic tasks quickly this is due to the fact that it all just makes sence and prefferences are were u think they should be and so. Its just a much more enjoyable computing experience. Its only lacking is the games but even t his is not so bad if your willing to wait for the newest games. Also unfountunitly most games dont run as well either becaus e they are poorly ported. The exception to this is of course is Blizzard games such as warcraft 3. Blizzard dose a wonderful jod of porting them and realeasing them along with updates at the same time as the pc versions. I am a huge fan of blizzard for this, though I am a bit curious as to why they are so good about gettting there games out for mac when other companies are so bad at it. Also I beleave the resolution on powerbooks is just as good as its pc counter part. And you can can go to bigger resolutions when connected to a external moniter( I do it all the time with my 12" rev A. powerbook.)

[mduser63]

I enjoyed reading that thread over on the Alienware board. It seems like the best argument people could come up with is that Macs have a one button mouse :p. Anyway, it sounds like you don't need much convincing anyway, but I just wanted to add my reassurance. I switched to the Mac about 3 months ago because my PC was in the shop 8 times in less than 2 months with hardware and software failures, even though it was a $2500 machine when new and was billed (much like Alienware stuff) as being top of the line. The only thing that has not been replaced in it since I've owned it is the case, power supply and video capture card, everything else has had a catastrophic hardware failure. I couldn't be happier with my Mac (12" Powerbook), and there's simply no way that I'll buy another Windows machine again. Macs are not perfect (no computer is), but they are like a Lexus compared to a Geo in my opinion (without the price difference).

[YoYoMac]

Macs are not perfect (no computer is), but they are like a Lexus compared to a Geo in my opinion (without the price difference).

Nice analogy.

I really appreciate all of the quick response from people here.

Just to clarify, those are not the official Alienware forums.

The Alienware forums can't be accessed unless you are a owner. Another thing that should have tipped me off when I bought the thing. If you can't get into the forums, you can't see all of the problems that people have. You wouldn't believe how many posts go into the technical support section. And how many don't go into the "praise" section. Really sick company.


Another thing that totally off topic; why can't I post in the political disscussion forums?

[edwardcheah]

Getting a build-to-order machine shipped to another country is likely to be difficult, unless you know someone who lives in that other country and they're willing to place the order and receive it for you.

If your PowerBook budget is anything like your Alienware budget was, you could get a 17" with 2GB (non-Apple) RAM and all the other trimmings. But saving $1000 is also a good idea, especially if that extra 1.7" of width, 0.7" of depth and 1.2 lbs / 0.5 Kg is too much to handle.

What I'd do if I were you is get a basic iBook as a sort of learning experience, use it for a few months, and then when the revised PowerBooks come out (dual core or whatever it may be), pass the iBook on to the wife (who by then will probably really want the iBook anyhow). That plan falls apart though if your wife has PC-only applications she needs for her job.

The reason I'm suggesting this plan is it will make the waiting much easier.



Please post a link to that thread. :)

its not as hard as you think to order a BTO machined shipped to abroad, i live in malaysia and if you have apple stores or apple re-sellers you definitely can order a BOT machine. i recently ordered a BOT Imac G5 and it only took 3 weeks.

Trust me get a mac, i justed swapped for PC to Mac and its amazing.

[sushi]

YoYoMac I use both Windows and Mac platforms, both laptops and desktops.

Observations/Comments (No particular order):

1. To me, my Macs simply work. My PC's on the other hand...

2. If you must use Access, get a PC. Virtual PC is way too slow. Otherwise, PC or Mac, you can run the rest of the office apps (Word, Excel and PowerPoint).

3. Apple has the best laptops IMHO.

4. You can build a cheap PC that does most office like tasks.

5. Stick with the Mac for anything graphic. PC's simply suck in that arena.

6. A great solution on the Mac side, is a PowerBook (12 or 15) with an external LCD monitor (20 or 23 inch). I personally have a 15 with a 22 inch Cinema display. Works great.

Hope this helps.

Sushi

[Beijingbastard]

Well, I also live in China (in Beijing, more accurately), and I'd say there is no need to go as far as the Peninsula to get a new Mac, when prices in Hong Kong are pretty low, too, compared to mainland Chinese prices. That's why i'm waiting, oh, waiting for that new Powerbook ;)

[crachoar]

People in this forum tend to usually assume 'decent gaming experience' means '15FPS, low detail with the high-end BTO configurations'.

I consider 'decent gaming' to be at least 40FPS on medium detail. I own both Apple computers and PCs, so my review will be completely unbiased.

Warcraft III will run on practically any modern mac. A new powerbook especially. You're good there.

Splinter Cell, from what I recall, was terrible on the PC. Poor port. The OSX version (which is two years later, I might add) is no better. It's actually a little worse it seems. This game is unplayable and extremely laggy.

UT2k4 on high (not max) detail ran smoothly on my Powerbook, although I had a hiccup here and there. I haven't tested it in a few months, hopefully Apple solved some problems by updating the OGL drivers.

However, UT2k4 for OSX cannot (as of, 2 months ago, when I last played it) display the detailed shadows and a few other effects (not sure if this is an OGL problem or not). So you're stuck with crappy looking blob shadows, unless this has been fixed in a driver update recently.

Also, the sound in UT2k4, especially the OSX port, is screwed. This is still being worked on by Ryan Gordon. Who knows if it will ever be 100% fixed. Doubtful.

Ghost Recon, I recall having some problems on my Quicksilver. Performance left something to be desired (much like Soldier of Fortune II). I chalk it up to the mac 'porting companies' (that's all they really are) being lazy (not good at their jobs). Never cared to install it on my powerbook. Ironically, the best experience I've had with GR is on my Xbox.

The same goes for Halo. Amazing experience on the Xbox. Terrible on both PC and Mac.

PCs are definitely better for gaming - they usually perform better, and you have a larger variety (not to mention, games actually come out when they're supposed to) - without a question the winner in the 'games' category.

Also, the centrino chip is excellent for long battery life. The G4 will run dry, usually in 2.5 hours, if you're not doing anything too taxing. The Sony Vaios are very thin and 'stylish', if that concerns you. The powerbook isn't the only computer with 'sex appeal'. The only thing I've yet to see a PC maker copy is the ever-so-pretty 'backlit keyboard'. Either way, that feature alone makes me so very happy.

As far as 'PCs sucking for anything involving graphics', that's just fanboy hype. Any computer is fine for graphics. Ignore such statements.

Basically, the only deciding factor is 'how much do you dislike Windows'.

The fact that it's 'unix-based', probably doesn't apply to you, and whenever somebody brings it up, I don't think they really know what they're talking about. Ignore that as well.

Also, the 'spyware / virus' thing isn't really a problem with Windows unless you're stupid, or somebody who uses your computer is stupid.

The only time I've ever gotten a virus with XP is when my friend was on my computer.

Although, OSX is pretty 'secure'. Either that, or no malicious programmers really care.

OSX has it's share of problems though, as do the powerbooks. The current crop of AlBooks have problems where the keyboard becomes loose (since it is held onto the computer with tape). Pretty pathetic for the 'Mercedes of computers'. Don't buy into the 'PBooks are flawless' hype. They're not at all.

The books tend to run hot, and can actually burn your lap (and make you sterile! Weee!).

And yes, the 15" resolution is depressingly low. I don't know why Apple does this, but it makes even baby Jesus cry.

I think that a lot of people here bash Microsoft and PCs in general, without reason. Not that I haven't wanted to punch Bill Gates a few times in my life, but Apple (especially in recent years) has kind of 'dropped the ball' a little, and the quality is starting to slip, since they're spending all of their money on the iPod, rather than fixing everything in OSX. I notice more and more 'windows-like' issues as the months go by. Little things that should work, but don't (iSync comes to mind as being one of those problems).

And Apple has it's own 'blue screen'. Two of them in fact. The 'spinning beachball of death' and the 'grey forced shutdown with 6 or so foreign languages pasted on top of a big power button graphic' screen.

I've actually had my macs hard crash more than XP. Not that it happens on a daily basis, but still, a fact.

As it was mentioned above, no computer is perfect. And when it comes to 'raw power', the Powerbooks are a bit behind. However, they're still decent computers, and it's still OSX (reason enough to own a mac). If you enjoy the OS more than XP, can afford to throw money away and are ok with not having the ability to run as many apps as your PC could (especially when it comes to games), then go for it. OSX is pretty well organized and feels 'right' for the most part.

Your powerbook could be useful to you for four years if you needed it to be (if the HD, LCD or logicboard didn't burn out by then). If you're just using it to do simple things that is. However, for 'mid-high-end' tasks, I'd say 1.5-2 years.

If you're not going to be using this Apple for games, intensive graphic / video / music editing, then you may as well just get an iBook. They're more sturdy anyway. Besides, you're not getting the Superdrive - why even get the PBook? (and yes, I know you can get them with iBooks now)

Personally, I just like the feel of OSX over XP, so I try to spend more time working in it.

Just don't go into this thinking that the PBook will solve all of your problems with computers and cook your breakfast. It won't.

I hope this helped you a little. Excuse random typos and ramblings (haven't slept in a long while).

Good luck with your next computer purchase.

[YoYoMac]

Wow. What great replies from everyone. Thanks so much.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Wow. What great replies from everyone. Thanks so much.
Interesting about your signature of dont buy Alienware. As a long time Mac user i bought my first PC for Gaming and it was Alienware. Im pretty happy with it and it burns through any game in ease. It wasnt easy becoming a switcher ;)HL2,Doom3,Il2,Pacific fighters....

[Mantat]

[QUOTE=crachoar]
As far as 'PCs sucking for anything involving graphics', that's just fanboy hype. Any computer is fine for graphics. Ignore such statements.

Also, the 'spyware / virus' thing isn't really a problem with Windows unless you're stupid, or somebody who uses your computer is stupid.

The only time I've ever gotten a virus with XP is when my friend was on my computer.

The books tend to run hot, and can actually burn your lap (and make you sterile! Weee!).

And yes, the 15" resolution is depressingly low. I don't know why Apple does this, but it makes even baby Jesus cry.

I've actually had my macs hard crash more than XP. Not that it happens on a daily basis, but still, a fact.

[QUOTE]

You said some interesting things. When people say that mac are better for graphic, they are right but most of the time dont know the 'why' and simply repeat what they hear. Mac ARE better for graphic simply because of all the color management. You could do the same on pc but it would be way harder and involve much more energy while on the mac its done automaticaly. Thats why we see a lot of mac in print shops. And for anything video, macs can compete with solutions that cost 5x more (talking about high end AVID stuff here).

Now all of the virus thing... You seem to be the kind of person who think that virus are only in mail attachements! Mail attachement and macro virus are the easiest to fix / spot / eliminate. The real problematic viruses are the one that do port intrusion / overflow, etc.. YOU CANT protect againts these no matter your level of competency unless you have a firewall set to block all port and that this firewall works as intended. So blaming virus / spyware on user stupidity is a, invalid argument. Of course ignorant users will get way more spyware!

You never got any virus / spyware? Hummm.. Thats one of the thing I find hard to believe simply because I have never ever seen a single computer (other than server and mac) who was used and connected to the internet without any such problems. I once put one of my PC on DMZ for about 3mins to do a quick test and ended up with a virus. Call it bad luck but still, it shows how easy it is to get a virus. Thats one of the reason I switched to OSX: I want my business data to be safe.

The steril argument was from a recent research that used PC laptop so this problem is related to any computer and doesnt have so much to do with the temperature of the computer but more with the fact that the user has its legs closed with a heat source over the top. So simply siting leg crossed with leather pants could be as detrimental.

Finaly, to have your mac crash more than you pc, I think there is a problem. Either with your computer or you. My work laptop crashes every time I plug/unplug the network cable if it has gone to sleep inbetween. This is a serious limitation that I never experienced with my mac and happen to me EVERYDAY! There is no patch/ solution for this since its related to the network implementation.

Anyways, I just think you painted a quick dark portrait of a mac laptop while they are viewed by most people as the best price/value one can get. Of course all your points about gaming are totaly right but hopefully will be fixed once coregraphic is out in Tiger. But for anything that has to do with work, I wouldnt trade my mac for anything!

[efoto]

For the guy who's brother is looking at AW. Tell them to stop right now. If you just gotta have a super blazing Laptop, I'd go with Dell or Sager. Sager right now seems to be on top of things in the pc laptop realm.

Sager is Alienware....for the most part. If you have ever looked at the lineups and the actual laptops themselves, they are the same exact thing. My cousin just purchased the desktop-replacement Sager and it looks EXACTLY like another friends AW laptop (desktop replacement of course). The guy who purcahsed the Sager said he heard from many people (online and in person) that Sager makes all the stuff for AW, which is why they are slightly cheaper but essentially the same stuff.

[YoYoMac]

OK. new question.

Does anyone know where I can get a stinking email to sales people at apple? I have a question about buying a pc internationally and I can't seem to find an email. is it just sales@apple.com? Not sure.

Secondly, does the stand of the iMac G5 come off? just curious. :)

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I know you are a "gamer", so bang-for-the-buck performance and top fps speed usually goes to the PC side. But at what cost?

PC viruses = 50,000+
Mac OS X viruses = 0 (as of right now)

At my "day job" we have two PCs in the office. Every other month or so, one or the other will catch a virus online before the antivirus recognition files can be downloaded. With our rather ham-fisted tech support, this means complete hard drive initialization/reinstallation of XP.

I am writing on a DP G4 1.25ghz Mac on a cable modem connection to the internet 24/7 with no virus protection software whatsoever. It is my main production computer for video and audio production. I may pick up some antivirus software in early 2005 before my main production season begins, just as an anal-retentive precaution, but I have little fear of problems now.

Try that with a PC running XP for a week and tell me how it goes!

[Darwin]

Secondly, does the stand of the iMac G5 come off? just curious. :)

The stand does come off but you would only take it off it you were opening the iMac up or fitting the system to a VESA mounting arm

[Rod Rod]

Does anyone know where I can get a stinking email to sales people at apple? I have a question about buying a pc internationally and I can't seem to find an email. is it just sales@apple.com? Not sure.

You can try emailing stevejobs@apple.com or stevejobs@mac.com. Someone at Apple will forward your message to wherever it's supposed to go, I'm pretty sure.

[sushi]

As far as 'PCs sucking for anything involving graphics', that's just fanboy hype. Any computer is fine for graphics. Ignore such statements.
Uh, obviously you have not used both for graphic applications.

The Mac OS and iLife apps/FCP, DVD Pro, etc. provide a much more integrated and seamless environment. Also color matching is much better/easier with the Mac platform.

Apps like Photoshop are different as well. I used to know a couple where the wife was hardcore Mac/Photoshop user and the husband was a PC/Photoshop user. Finally one day she got him to come to her office. After about 30 minutes with the Mac and Photoshop he decided to trash his PC and get a Mac. As she stated, the Mac allows you to focus more on the end product vice the PC.

Another case in point is a hardcore PC (BS CS/MS degree) buddy of mine. He was using his PC to create videos/movies. He was going to upgrade his PC. I suggested that he get a Mac and use FCP. Well, he didn't believe me. After spending about 150% of what my setup costs and he still couldn't do what I could, he said that he finally saw the light. When he returns from the sandbox he will be getting a nice new G5.

Another case in point, just look at WMP vice QT. Enough said. BTW, wonderful way to demonstrate the difference in quality of the two apps -- especially scalability of the final product.

Bottom line, if you are going to focus on video and pics, get a Mac. You won't be sorry. Likewise if you choose a PC, well all I can say is have fun! :eek:

Sushi

[geese]

I'm suprised no-ones mentioned/moaned about this, but its 'Mac' not MAC.

sorry.

[mrgreen4242]

Another case in point, just look at WMP vice QT. Enough said. BTW, wonderful way to demonstrate the difference in quality of the two apps -- especially scalability of the final product.


I just want to point out that if you were to compare WMP to QT directly, in most areas WMP would be a winner. If you add iTunes and QT together, and compare that to WMP it becomes very close... iTunes for music is about 10000x better than anything else out there, esp. WMP. When you look at WMPs video playback features compared to QTs, they fair pretty equally, imo, except that QT CANNOT DISPLAY FULLSCREEN VIDEO UNLESS YOU PAY $30 MORE! ARGGGGGH! I cannot express how much this dismays me. There isn't an application included with OSX that can play full screen video!? HOW ASSINE! If you buy OSX upgrades when they are released, they cost $130, but you have to pay $30 to get full screen video playback?!

I know you can download lost of very nice media player apps that can do FS for OSX, but it comes out of the box with WMP, and you can get most of those same apps, plus several others, for XP as well.

[MentalFabric]

Reasons to buy a Mac:

1) It will show you how much you can use your computer for other than gaming (though to be honest, I really think that the guys on this board tend to be far too harsh on Mac gaming - More than enough games can run nicely on my G5, and I have a friend with a 1.25Ghz 15" powerbook that's around a year old, and he frequently brings it here for UT2k4 LAN sessions, he gets glitch-free performance up to normal settings with an either 32 or 64mb ATI video card, i forget which). I know, you can do most of the creative things on a PC too, but using a PC you don't really want to have to struggle through the creative process. For a start iLife gives you everything you need to start working on video and music (I'm a production student, and I must say that Garageband is a pretty frikkin amazing app, it's streamlined the process of recording music for the non-technical by 'leaps and bounds', even if it doesn't record at pro quality, i use it instead of Logic for quick *****.) Down to the basic fact that if you load the same image on a windows machine and a Mac the image WILL look a hell of a lot better on the Mac. I don't claim to know why, but I'm frequently annoyed at the low quality my PC using friends view my photos in ^.^

2) You get amazing free technical support on these forums, there's almost always someone willing to help you out with your problem.

3) The Mac game scene won't get better till the gamers start switching :-D

[efoto]

The Mac game scene won't get better till the gamers start switching :-D

MF (haha) makes a great point here. Until there is utter DEMAND for better products, in this case games for Mac, there will rarely, if ever, be delivery of those products. Until more people switch to make and start to complain about the lack of games, port companies will continue to invest little to no time in sending games the Mac way.

There are of course companies who do an outstanding job (Blizzard for one...always dual-platform all games) but they are few and far between.

[kdawg]

I had the WORST customer experience with them. You are paying for the name Ordered two laptops from them in 2003. One showed up with a broken keyboard. After paying 3900.00 for my "wheel barrow" laptop I was told that I would get a keyboard replacement next day..

One week later I come to find that my keyboard was never ordered...two weeks and 4 More phone calls my keyboard showed up. It didn't fix the problem. so they said to send it back and I would receive it back in about a month! I ask to speak with a suporvisor... "They are in meetings right now, but I will have one call you back ASAP" That never happened... the next day. I call back to speak with a suporvisor, and get the same answer... 4 more phone calls, NOTHING... the third day I finally speak with a suporvisor. and am given total appologies... but yet I would not revceive a fixed laptop for another month.

I again told them not acceptable and they should provide me with a new machine since the sent me a defective unit. Again... the suporvisor said they would not... so I wanted to return the whole order, so then they said they would charge me a 15% restocking fee. (ON 7800.00 dollars!)

IMHO 3900 for a computer is kind of like buying a Luxery Car. You don't expect to go buy a bently and pull out of the parking lot with a busted speedometer.

So I returned both laptops, and ate the restocking fee. Then contacted the Better business Bureau in FL, and received my restocking fee back.... THREE MONTHS LATER!


THe customer service reps are rude and think that they are gods gift to the world of computers... (They all are about 15 years old by the way they talk to you)

I would NEVER EVER do business with this company ever again.

I bought a Game PC note book... their customer service is excellent and the price was $700.00 LESS with Same exact specs as AW without the purdy case. I bought the three year warranty and when the power converter fried, I was back up in about a week.

But remember if you get one of these gaming machines you are lucky to get 20 minutes of battery life.... not really good unless you do lan parties... and I can honnestly say after owning one, that I would not buy unless you are a heavy heavy gamer.... As they are heavy, noisey, and the heat vents right next to your mousing hand and it gets hot.... Now that the sound card in my wheel barrow laptop is broke, I am waiting for Jan to get my first mac, as this is MY LAST WINDOWS COMPUTER

BUT DON'T BUY ALIENWARE

BTW resellerratings.com

[crap freakboy]

MF (haha) makes a great point here. Until there is utter DEMAND for better products, in this case games for Mac, there will rarely, if ever, be delivery of those products. Until more people switch to make and start to complain about the lack of games, port companies will continue to invest little to no time in sending games the Mac way.

There are of course companies who do an outstanding job (Blizzard for one...always dual-platform all games) but they are few and far between.

Catch 22 i'd say, give better game ports for consumer Macs with better Vram then you'll have more people switching. I've been using macs since 1990 but I'm going to have to wait until the rev b of the iMac in the hope that Apple give it a decent(ish) graphics card. Only used a Pc twice in my life so I can't really pass comment on their merits/demerits especially as it was running Windows 2000 and installing Canon Ixus Software and drivers was a bloody nightmare.

Saying that, Ive just got a console...I'll get me coat.

[Mantat]

Catch 22 i'd say, give better game ports for consumer Macs with better Vram then you'll have more people switching. I've been using macs since 1990 but I'm going to have to wait until the rev b of the iMac in the hope that Apple give it a decent(ish) graphics card.

Unless they find a cheap and powerfull card to put in it, forget it. The iMac target audience isnt gamer, its family member who want to chat and do video stuff and pictures. Its a 600$ G5 with a 2000$ screen. I just wish that with the price reduction of the LCD they would find some way to upgrade the card while maintaining the price. Maybe the new GeForce 6200 PCI-E would be the solution?

Or make a gamer system with a better (upgradable?) video card for an additional 200$. But the current offering of iMac isnt targeted at gamer and IMHO its its greatest flaw because for everything else, its a more than able computer.

[efoto]

Catch 22 i'd say, give better game ports for consumer Macs with better Vram then you'll have more people switching. I've been using macs since 1990 but I'm going to have to wait until the rev b of the iMac in the hope that Apple give it a decent(ish) graphics card. Only used a Pc twice in my life so I can't really pass comment on their merits/demerits especially as it was running Windows 2000 and installing Canon Ixus Software and drivers was a bloody nightmare.

Saying that, Ive just got a console...I'll get me coat.

It is a touchy situation because if the games were there with the high-level hardware to support them, it would make yet another compelling arguement for a switch. If there were a ton of Mac users waiting for games and hardware, that would compel the manufacturers to produce for them because they know they would have a customer base who would purchase.

So if there were more Mac gamers demanding product, they would probably get it, but there are not enough demanding yet.

If there were more Mac games and greater hardware support then it would entice more gamers to switch over (because games are one negative tick against Mac right now...although playable not the same really).

So basically, you are right, it is a sort of catch twenty-two. Which method would you prefer though?
You are a win user who loves games....you either:
A - Switch to Mac and then demand hardware and games, hoping that "they" follow through and deliver what you asked for or
B - Stay playing your plethora of games with a wide selection of hardware on pc until the Mac community of producers makes the game selection broader and the hardware perform better.

Personally for the arguement of pure gaming, I think most would select option B. Why changeover and give up what you currently have in hopes that other companies will get their act together to produce some cool shiz for the Mac? Obviously there are a TON of other arguements to promote the switch....however just on the game topic, well you know.

[jaseone]

Just don't go into this thinking that the PBook will solve all of your problems with computers and cook your breakfast. It won't.

Actually I think if you were game after a period of heavy use you could close your PB, flip it upside down and crack open an egg and it would cook it quite quickly. :D

[EJBasile]

" Convince me to buy a MAC."

That reminds me of the thread posted a while back of someone complaining about the misuse of the term MAC. I can't find the thread right now but every time someone write MAC someone has to point it out. LOL

Mac vs MAC

[Patmian212]

This might sound a bit disturbed. BUT JUST LOOK AT THE MACS THERE SO DAMN SEXY. :)

[YoYoMac]

Alright. You guys rock. Lots of cool disscussion going on here.

Ok, here is my situation. As I said before, I live in China. I'm not Chinese, I just teach English here. I'll be traveling back home during the summer of 05, then coming back in the fall and traveling back in the summer of 06 for good. In America, I live in GA. ;)

I kept reading everything people said about the current PB line and how they are running out of time and all that stuff. I would hate to buy a expensive laptop in Janurary, and then have a new one come out in the summer. Unfortunately, I need the computer now. I have lots of stuff that I need to do before the summer gets here.

So, becuase I live here in China, and since I travel back to the states in the summer for a few months, I need something that I can travel with on the plane. NOT something that I can USE on the plane, just something that I can take as a carry on. So, my Mac buddy over here and I have been talking about the iMac. I read its review in MacWorld this month, (which my mother in law graciously sends me every month. don't you wish your mother in law did that) and I have to say that they seem fairly impressive. I know I know, it only has 64 meg V ram, but like I said, my gaming is not the FIRST priority. My video editing and image editing is. So here are my questions.

1. Has anyone ever tried to take an iMac as a carry on? I figure I would just wrap the box in brown paper and handcuff it (not really) to my wrist. Would it fit in the over head or under the seat?

2. Does anyone know if they might upgrade the midplane with a new video card. and if they do, would they offer it as an upgrade to exsisting users?

Depeding on what I can fit on the plane will depend on if I get the 17" and the 20". My friend actually made me a model out of cardboard of the 20 and dang its huge. I would only have to physically travel with it 5 times. Once from Thailand to China, then twice from China to America and twice from America to China.

3. Do you all think I'm crazy? My wife sure does.



ok, thats all for now. Thanks. :D

[Rod Rod]

1. The first part of this post I wrote (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=1143439&postcount=9) in another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=98554) addresses the iMac G5 airline carry-on case.

2. Based on what's happened in the past, that's unlikely to happen. If it does I'll be very surprised.

The 20" is a little bit bigger but all that extra screen is really nice to have.

3. Every married male Mac user I know's wife thinks he's crazy. :)

[YoYoMac]

1. The first part of this post I wrote (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=1143439&postcount=9) in another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=98554) addresses the iMac G5 airline carry-on case.

2. Based on what's happened in the past, that's unlikely to happen. If it does I'll be very surprised.

The 20" is a little bit bigger but all that extra screen is really nice to have.

3. Every married male Mac user I know's wife thinks he's crazy. :)


Thanks Rod Rod. Great post by the way on that other site.

[jaromski]

Every married male Mac user I know's wife thinks he's crazy. :)

Azt pontosan tudjom.

--

I never thought of it that way but god damn it that is the case, isn't it. I am male, late twenties, mac convert, and my wife thinks I am crazy. Gonna post.

I have the 12" PB. Had it since spring/04. great machine. I haven't met its equal, as far as convenient (keyword now) notebook machines go. Very wonderful device. I am locked down in the business environment to use PC; however, for pleasure the mac is unsurpassed. I don't use the mac for gaming (isn't that what that PS2 is for?) but for internet, browsing, word processing, or any other creative task, it beats the pc. (even linux oh my)

Here is the drag. All PC/MAC hardware is commoditized. You will experience hardware hell in both environments, I guarantee it. The difference boils down to combinatorics. Permutations and combinations of how and when things will go awry, the other hardware in which they interact. Mac has a better grasp on this concept and only supports a limited subset of hardware the PC "supports". So more chances than not you will have a very wonderful experience with mac. A boost in productivity. And so on. Because it is a better system. It is unix-based. But friendly. Very nice.

But the mac/pc crowd are subject to market forces. They must get their hardware from 3rd parties. Market economics dictate this and potentials for instability are generated from this market force. By this I mean your hard drive in the mac or pc come from the same vendors; hitachi, western digital, samsung, seagate, etc. So if it craps out, is the mac to blame, or the pc?

Maybe I make no sense now, could be the Christmas cheer consumed. But the mac is not a panacea for your problems. Just a different process, a different approach. Which happens to be better in my opinion.

This 12" PB I am typing on is the most exquisite computer hardware I've used. Not the fastest, the most exquisite. It really outshines any PC experience I've had. And I am a Computer Science grad/nerd so I am picky.

But you will not regret the Mac if you don't require specific PC applications. Otherwise, if you require functionally-superior alternatives, Mac is your solution.

JaromSki

[crachoar]

Apple will not solder a new GPU to your motherboard when the new iMacs come out. Sorry.

If you want to upgrade, you get a Powermac G5. And even then, you're usually screwed since Apple (often times) is a 'dollar short' with their graphics technology (ports mostly). I would not get the iMac G5, mostly because of the terrible on-board GPU. Sure, the LCD is nice, but having more horses under the hood is better (if you ask me).

I'd suggest getting a cheap iBook for now (with the fastest and largest HD you can order), selling it later and checking out the PBook G5's when they arrive (which could very well be a year from now).

Just realize that you'll need the best PBook money can buy right now to be able to play games at decent framerates. However, you've stated that gaming isn't a priority...

If you need something for simple tasks - stick with the iBook. It's cheaper, more durable and it works just fine for what you need. Granted, the memory is slower - it's basically 'yesterday's PBook'. However, from what I understand, it'd be perfect for you.

And about games? The game companies aren't even going to consider porting games to the mac until the G5 is the standard. And even then, things will still probably be years late.

Gaming, I would imagine, is the number one (logical) reason for (average / non-professional) people not switching. The second one would probably have to be the 'duuurrrr...one-button mouse!' argument.

Apple really should've payed more attention to Bungie. If Halo were developed as an Apple Exclusive, you can bet your ass we'd be seeing more game companies and people switching to OSX...

[CaptainCaveMann]

Can we please close this stupid thread :rolleyes: " Convince me to buy a Mac " hahaha its rediculous, if you want it buy it and try doing some research on your own you dont live on Mars or do you? ;)

[YoYoMac]

Can we please close this stupid thread :rolleyes: " Convince me to buy a Mac " hahaha its rediculous, if you want it buy it and try doing some research on your own you dont live on Mars or do you? ;)

Everyone else was very nice to help answer my questions. I did look up stuff about Macs, but its hard to find anything that I can make heads or tails of. Either the review far to out of date or its extremely biased. And I can't just spend 2000 dollars on something. I have to know what I'm getting into.

Thanks anyway.

[wdlove]

Everyone else was very nice to help answer my questions. I did look up stuff about Macs, but its hard to find anything that I can make heads or tails of. Either the review far to out of date or its extremely biased. And I can't just spend 2000 dollars on something. I have to know what I'm getting into.

Thanks anyway.

You should just take his comment with a grain of salt. As you have seen the majority of members here are very helpful. I don't think that you are crazy you are just being cautious. It is best in my opinion to check every angle, that way you can feel comfortable about your purchase. After all you have worked very hard for your money.

[Jsmit]

I agree, it can be very nerve racking to switch. It took me three and an half years to be comfortable enough to make the switch. That is between the time I first had the thought of switching to actually plucking down the cash for my iMac.

By The Way, I don't regret it, but gaming has only been a plus to my computing experience, never a real focus. I have a PS2 to that sits idle most of the time, but it is there for when I really get the urge.

If you are looking for a low end machine that is easy to transport then look at the iBooks. They have specifications pretty close to those of the PBs, just missing a few features, slight speed, and screen realstate on compared to some PD models.

Regarding political forums, doesn't the Chinese government censor the internet? Whether or not that is good is a discussion for another forum, in other words lets keep this thread non-political.

Best of luck, in your purchase. Maya is right, you want to switch, you now just need to decide how to proceed and which model to get.

[Rod Rod]

Thanks Rod Rod. Great post by the way on that other site.

You're welcome. I'm glad you like it.

Regarding political forums, doesn't the Chinese government censor the internet? Whether or not that is good is a discussion for another forum, in other words lets keep this thread non-political

I think you have to have 100 posts here before you can write anything in the MR political forums.

[leekohler]

Buy a Mac. You'll love the experience. I started out using a PC at work and I could never figure the thing out at all. A friend convinced me to buy a Mac and I knew everything about it and could fix it myself in about 2 weeks. BTW-I bought an iBook about 5 months ago and have left it on for the last 2 months with no restarting or any other problems at all. Buy a Mac-you'll be glad you did.

[CaptainCaveMann]

Everyone else was very nice to help answer my questions. I did look up stuff about Macs, but its hard to find anything that I can make heads or tails of. Either the review far to out of date or its extremely biased. And I can't just spend 2000 dollars on something. I have to know what I'm getting into.

Thanks anyway.Do they sell Macs in your city? Can you go an play with one at the store? I dont know what its like over there but over here in the U.S.A well particularly where i am in L.A, Southern Califronia, we have Macs everywhere and there are a lot of stores that carry Macs here so its never been a real mystery what they are like. My advice is to go and try one out ;)

[YoYoMac]

There are two Mac stores here in Choing Qing, China. I've only been to one, and all he has is an iMac G3! and one PB 12". I found out that the prices in Thailand are just as expensive as they are in China, so now I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I really don't want to spend 20% more than I should for the same computer. I think I have decided to go with an iMac. I know that I asked about the PB and stuff. But I just feel that the iMac is a better investment right now. I don't NEED to move it around or take it with me. I found that iLugger and they will ship one to me here. So I don't need to worry about travel. Its under the carry on size allowance. Now I just have to figure out if I'm going to go with the 17" or the 20" and if I'm going to buy from America and have it shipping here, or if I'm going to make a 2 day :eek: train ride one way to buy in Hong Kong. Same prices in both places.

And I know that I won't be able to game well with the iMac, but I've got a PS2 here when I'm desperate. and from what I've been told, Warcraft III will play like a dream on any mac, so that'll do.

Now, just have to decided....17" or 20"

I will be making a movies with this new machine. And I have a website that I do work on. People say that the 20" is just emaculate. I'm so tempted, but the exact same computer is 400 less if I go with the 17"

Just not sure what to do now. You know, If I keep doing this, then by the time I really figure out what I want, the PB G5 will be out! haha :D

[Jsmit]

I think you have to have 100 posts here before you can write anything in the MR political forums.

I was talking about political forums in general was not aware that MacRumors had a political section. Are you referring to the current affairs section, since I have less than 100 posts and it seems like I can post in it (thought I have not since I come here to discus Mac and other Apple issues). Or is there a political section that I am missing or just can't see?

On the subject of traveling with an iMac. Don't they make you power up computers before you board a plane to prove that it is indeed a working computer and not bomb or a vessel to carry contraband? It would be more difficult with an iMac, but possible if they are willing to provide you with a plug. Other than that it is a good machine. I love my old CRT iMac, it was what I made the switch on and I will try to keep it running for a long time.

[Rod Rod]

Are you referring to the current affairs section, since I have less than 100 posts and it seems like I can post in it (thought I have not since I come here to discus Mac and other Apple issues). Or is there a political section that I am missing or just can't see?

1. No, I'm not referring to the current events section.
2. Yes there is a separate section here called Political Discussions & War Discussion (http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=47).

As for powering up your computer at security checkpoints, I suppose it'd be a great idea to keep a transformer in your bag (if you have a U.S. model iMac; outside of the U.S., iMacs can take 110 and 220).

[sushi]

I just want to point out that if you were to compare WMP to QT directly, in most areas WMP would be a winner.
I see that you must be in a jovial mood due to the holidays. Must be too much eggnog clouding your senses! :D

Go ahead and put them both side by side and see just how much WMP sucks compared to QT.

I wish that I had time to do an indepth comparison, but with the holidays I simply do not have time. However, not to leave you totally hanging, here is a teaser.

Open a film in WMP. Okay, now try to position the film, to a particular point. Can't do it can ya! Now try it in QT. Simple isn't it?

Sushi

[sushi]

Now, just have to decided....17" or 20"

I will be making a movies with this new machine. And I have a website that I do work on. People say that the 20" is just emaculate. I'm so tempted, but the exact same computer is 400 less if I go with the 17"
Some comments/questions that may help you in your decision.

First, are you going to travel with it that much? And if so, will both qualify as a carry on?

It is always better to have too much (is that possible?) screen real estate than not enough. Spreadsheets, iMovie, iDVD, and other apps love more space.

Will you feel bad a couple of years from now when your iMac is old? In other words, is that $400 more going to bother you in a couple of years when you need to upgrade...or will you have been happy with the extra space?

Are you going to use the iMac as an alternate TV for watching TV or DVDs? The extra 3" will be well worth it.

If there was a 23 inch iMac model, would you consider purchasing it, or would it be too big?

Is weight or thickness an issue? The 17" is lighter and thinner than the 20".

Is FSB speed an issue? (533 vice 600)

Is a larger built in HD important? (The 17 comes with 80, the 20 with 160. Although both can be upgraded to 250.)

Well hopefully one or more of these questions will help you arrive at a decision.

Good luck!

Sushi

[superfunkomatic]

well, here's one simple way to tell it's a good investment. i've had my g3 400 powerbook for almost 5 years runs 10.3 (and soon 10.4) well on 512MB of ram. i still work on it as my main computer for photoshop work and web development. it's been fantastic - tell me who still uses a 5 year old pc laptop - no one...

[HenMaster6000]

It's written 'Mac' not MAC.

[YoYoMac]

Well, I am glad that I recieved so much response.

Here is the latest development. My dad calls me up on Christmas and says he wants to help me get a new computer. so, My wife and my dad are buying it for me for Christmas. Late Christmas. Anyway, in China, the VAT added like 450 bucks to any machine you look at. So it looks like I'm going to make a little trip to Hong Kong. The prices for US and HK are the same. I've been talking with Tony Ho, the vice president of Apple Asia, asking for a discount, but he won't do it.

I'm going with the 20" iMac. 512 meg ram (will upgrade again in the summer).

I'll be going by train, because its much much cheaper than Air. 30 hours to Guangzhou, than 3-4 hours by bus into HK. Then back again the way I came. Thats right folks, I'm going to travel 64+ hours to get my iMac. :D

Becuase these are so new, do you think anything will happen to the iMac line during MSWF? I was planning on going to HK maybe the 6th or 7th of Jan.

Thanks again to everyone that helped me out. :) This is the best forum I've ever been apart of.