how much memory is enough ?

[dazed]

Hi,


Im trying to figure out how much memory to order for my mac pro which will be ordered soon. I know the more the better but there must come to a point where it makes little difference?


My primary uses are lightroom, photoshop (amateur/prosumer level) as well as running windows XP and possibly 7 inside Fusion.

Would 8gb be enough or would 12 make a substantial difference ?

Is there a big real world difference between running in dual or triple channel ?


Thanks

[Sean Dempsey]

yes.

yes.

no.

[Honumaui]

the only way to know if enough memory is to run your files a bit and check the efficiency and also check the scratch size use in PS

LR is not a huge memory hog ? so no worries their ;) PS is though !!

so a starting point is how big are your files you work on ?

over 300 megs you want 24 gigs under 300 meg files you might be fine with 16 ?
really depends on a few things :)

[Vylen]

Best thing to do is to just order your MP and run it like normal, paying attention to how much swap is used. It's how I figured out 24gb was good for me.

[chrono1081]

Always go more than less. I thought 24 gigs in my Mac pro would be plenty but I was wrong. I've begun to use it all up quite frequently :/

[toxic]

what're you guys doing that requires 24 gigs? :confused:

[MaxiKana]

Those of you saying more is always better think a bit about us one-man businesses. Roughly every 10 € I put into my business is one pint less at the bar ;)

I just pulled the trigger and ordered my 3.2 quad, gonna play for a week with 3 gig of memory and then decide on either buying 8 or 12 gigs. I only use LR and PS. 99 % of my files are under 300 megs so I should be fine with 8 gigs. Though I do a lot of multitasking with LR, PS, ID and Ai.

[Shademaster]

I use istat to monitor my computer usage and I can say from experience that 8gb is enough for any heavy duty multitasking you want to do. If you want to do some serious 3D rendering 12GB will cut it. For anything 2D related 8 is enough for me.

[Honumaui]

what're you guys doing that requires 24 gigs? :confused:

PS work :)
retouching images in the 300 meg range ?
just got done tonight with a job of 120+ wedding images ? and have some more to do for a book tomorrow and then the next day and so on :)

[Honumaui]

Those of you saying more is always better think a bit about us one-man businesses. Roughly every 10 € I put into my business is one pint less at the bar ;)

I just pulled the trigger and ordered my 3.2 quad, gonna play for a week with 3 gig of memory and then decide on either buying 8 or 12 gigs. I only use LR and PS. 99 % of my files are under 300 megs so I should be fine with 8 gigs. Though I do a lot of multitasking with LR, PS, ID and Ai.

or think of it getting done quicker and having that pint 30 minutes earlier :)

best thing is in the info tab check efficiency if you dip below %100 start checking your scratch if your left number is more than your right number ever you need more ram :) or should say it would help to have more :) as you DONT need it but would be nice :)

12 gigs min I think ? and really 16 is a new base to go for :)

[300D]

Anything between "maximum" and "as much as it can take" is enough.

[Vylen]

what're you guys doing that requires 24 gigs? :confused:

Photoshop, Illustrator, Blender, XCode... either open all at once or a combination of them ;) VMWare Fusion too with Visual Studio.

Plus various other applications open all at the same time.

[Concorde Rules]

In my experience with LR3 and CS5 running working on 18MP 7D images I never get page outs, so 6Gb is good for someone who doesn't really use CS5 that often.

Either way im getting 2Gb more at some more to see if LR3 works any quicker.

[chrono1081]

Originally Posted by toxic
what're you guys doing that requires 24 gigs?

Maya, Zbrush, Unity, XCode, Photoshop (Usually open with Maya for Texturing), Houdini, VMWare, Corel Painter, Aperture, Logic, and i just took a new interest in Final Cut and After effects and match moving so im sure that will add to things...

[mulo]

PS work :)
retouching images in the 300 meg range ?
just got done tonight with a job of 120+ wedding images ? and have some more to do for a book tomorrow and then the next day and so on :)

where do yo get pictures that size? :o

[Honumaui]

In my experience with LR3 and CS5 running working on 18MP 7D images I never get page outs, so 6Gb is good for someone who doesn't really use CS5 that often.

Either way im getting 2Gb more at some more to see if LR3 works any quicker.

dont worry as much about page outs but the efficiency % and scratch in PS :) just remember its only for the last thing you did ?

keep a eye on pages :) but PS will tell you more how its running and pages for your complete over all system

window menu then info then that little triangle and choose the efficiency and scratch and keep eye when you do things :) also for fun set the activity monitor to refresh as quick as it can and watch your memory :)

[Honumaui]

where do yo get pictures that size? :o

two kinds of files
one are layouts so multiple images on a layout that can be large ?
the other for single images
layers :) adjustment layers and some other layers such as clone layers and replacing or taking out things etc..
not always that big but they are enough super base images are 75-100 megs start point with 3 main adjustment layers of dodge burn and contrast and then adding to that depending on image need

[Vylen]

two kinds of files
one are layouts so multiple images on a layout that can be large ?
the other for single images
layers :) adjustment layers and some other layers such as clone layers and replacing or taking out things etc..
not always that big but they are enough super base images are 75-100 megs start point with 3 main adjustment layers of dodge burn and contrast and then adding to that depending on image need

And then there's people with medium format cameras ranging from 16MP to 60MP... :p single photos in the hundreds of mbs in size...

[Honumaui]

I usually have billing software time tracking thing running
calendar and some entertainment ;) netflix or itunes or tivo share on a old 20 inch monitor to break up the day
FTP going up or down PS and LR usually mail
batching out then swtich over to PS for a bit browser with to many windows :) hehehehe small things like controller mate and a few other things also like password manager
a few other things cant think of that come and go ?

[Fesan]

Just bought 2x 4gb memory from OWC for my 3,33 ghz Westmere rig.

Was really unsure about going for 2x 4gb or 4x 2gb but ended up going for 2x 4gb in the end because upgrading would be cheaper (just get two more instead of replacing all four).

Did I make a mistake? Read somewhere that the memory copy speed is almost double with 4 chips instead of 2. Is a solution to put in two of the original 1gb chips to fill all four spots or is the difference not that big in the new westmere rigs?

As I cannot afford more memory at the moment my only choices are:

1) Use the two 4gb chips and nothing else

2) Use the two 4gb chips and two 1gb chips (the one that came with the computer)

3) Sell the 4gb chips and keep the 3x 1gb chips that came with the comp.

What do you guys think?:-)

P.S Ordered a 120gb SSD disc from OWC aswell, where would you reccomend installing it? I got plenty of room in my HDD bays but if it fits perfectly in the optical bay then I guess no reason not to put it there? Although I would not want that if it will just "float" around.

[Honumaui]

And then there's people with medium format cameras ranging from 16MP to 60MP... :p single photos in the hundreds of mbs in size...

I used to do commercial a lot of my base files were like that :) mags like Architectural digest and Food and Wine and such :)
out of it now ? just do weddings a bit and mostly post now :)
used to have some big files in the gigs and on the G5 it was like go eat dinner and go to the pool and come back to check how its going :)


one of my other buds shoots large backs a lot p45+ and stitches together stuff :) hehehe so he ends up with pics like over 200-600+ MP equiv :)

my fav camera
that and a P65 back :)
http://www.calumetphoto.com/resources/images/prod_tnlg/7f079013fe2a41cca581a39e4f21075d.jpg

[Honumaui]

Just bought 2x 4gb memory from OWC for my 3,33 ghz Westmere rig.

Was really unsure about going for 2x 4gb or 4x 2gb but ended up going for 2x 4gb in the end because upgrading would be cheaper (just get two more instead of replacing all four).

Did I make a mistake? Read somewhere that the memory copy speed is almost double with 4 chips instead of 2. Is a solution to put in two of the original 1gb chips to fill all four spots or is the difference not that big in the new westmere rigs?

As I cannot afford more memory at the moment my only choices are:

1) Use the two 4gb chips and nothing else

2) Use the two 4gb chips and two 1gb chips (the one that came with the computer)

3) Sell the 4gb chips and keep the 3x 1gb chips that came with the comp.

What do you guys think?:-)

P.S Ordered a 120gb SSD disc from OWC aswell, where would you reccomend installing it? I got plenty of room in my HDD bays but if it fits perfectly in the optical bay then I guess no reason not to put it there? Although I would not want that if it will just "float" around.

you did fine :) you can put in 1 extra chip or 2 for a total of 3 or 4 ? not a big deal in real world speeds yes 3 is quicker than 4 but not by much and chances are you wont be pushing it that much where the speed makes a difference ?

for the SSD their are a few ways to mount I got a LianLi thing from newegg for $9.99 or something works good ? OWC has a nicer setup for $29 or something ?
it can sit up their :) since its not a moving rotational disc they wont move around ? its nicer to have mounted though ?

that or put it in a icy dock then stick it in one of the bays ? either way :)

[mjsmke]

There are a few threads on dual/tri channel memory. I had x3 2GB sticks in my Mac and nearly bought an extra 4GB stick to put in the forth slot.

A far is i know (please correct me if i am wrong) tri channel means your system will access 3 sticks at the same time to take full advantage of memory's speed rather then using one then the second, third, and so on......

Of course there will be times when using that 4th slot to have more RAM will be more beneficial than less but ever so slightly faster RAM.

For me 6GB was not enough for Maya, photoshop, Final Cut Studio, Logic. 12GB is perfect.

[Fesan]

Thank you for the feedback:-)

As far as I could read the Westmere don't have lower speeds for four chips compared to three (because the chipset or whatever was made for four memorychips).
However as the previous poster mentioned there is no good information on 2vs3 or 4 chips.
My plan was to sell the 1gb chips but if sticking one into the 3rd and/or 4th slot to increase the speed on all three then I might just do that:-)

Oh and thanks to you guys I went and got a icy dock and feel great now, thanks:-)

[johnnymg]

Thank you for the feedback:-)

As far as I could read the Westmere don't have lower speeds for four chips compared to three (because the chipset or whatever was made for four memorychips).
However as the previous poster mentioned there is no good information on 2vs3 or 4 chips.
My plan was to sell the 1gb chips but if sticking one into the 3rd and/or 4th slot to increase the speed on all three then I might just do that:-)

Oh and thanks to you guys I went and got a icy dock and feel great now, thanks:-)

Read this also: http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-MacProMemory.html

[dazed]

My photoshop files are not that big ( < 100mb usually). most of the time i use Lightroom.

Im thinking maybe 8gb is enough to start (2x4gb) and then I can get another 8gb later on to fill up the 4 slots. Im hoping there will not be any noticeable difference running in dual channel rather that triple.

[WardC]

12GB or 24GB is the sweet spot with a single-processor Mac Pro. You will notice a speed improvement running 3 sticks of memory in stead of four (I sure did), I was running 16GB and I took out one of my sticks and now my whole machine is notieceably faster and no lag when using the internet, booting apps, or pulling down menus, everything is instantaneous. 12GB is enough for me, but 24GB is great too. Just make sure you leave the slot closest to the processor empty, that way you will be taking advantage of triple-channel memory acceleration running 3 sticks in 3 slots.

[Concorde Rules]

12GB or 24GB is the sweet spot with a single-processor Mac Pro. You will notice a speed improvement running 3 sticks of memory in stead of four (I sure did), I was running 16GB and I took out one of my sticks and now my whole machine is notieceably faster and no lag when using the internet, booting apps, or pulling down menus, everything is instantaneous. 12GB is enough for me, but 24GB is great too. Just make sure you leave the slot closest to the processor empty, that way you will be taking advantage of triple-channel memory acceleration running 3 sticks in 3 slots.

Everything you listed there would never, ever saturate dual channel, let alone benefit with triple channel! Im sorry but that improvement you quoted is placebo...

If you were hammering all cores using Photoshop or did computation that hammers the memory bus interconnect then you'd notice improvements. You wouldn't 'pulling down menus'.

Sorry :p

The difference is something like 7Gb/Sec vs 9Gb/Sec, because Safari SO needs that extra 2Gb/Sec :p

[WardC]

Dude, you don't know anything about what you are talking about. My RAM display in Activity Monitor is totally different when I have 12GB installed vs 16GB. It shows most of free memory as BLUE as opposed to GREEN when I am running 3 sticks instead of 4. And yes, it's faster, alot faster, my whole system is faster. I even ran the memory tests on Geekbench and XBench, and not only did my memory speeds improve, so did my Processor Integer and Floating Point scores. It's faster with three memory slots full instead of four.

You don't know what you are talking about.

[Concorde Rules]

Dude, you don't know anything about what you are talking about. My RAM display in Activity Monitor is totally different when I have 12GB installed vs 16GB. It shows most of free memory as BLUE as opposed to GREEN when I am running 3 sticks instead of 4. And yes, it's faster, alot faster, my whole system is faster. I even ran the memory tests on Geekbench and XBench, and not only did my memory speeds improve, so did my Processor Integer and Floating Point scores. It's faster with three memory slots full instead of four.

You don't know what you are talking about.

LOL Mate, don't start. I've been overclocking and tweaking computers for 10 years.

I know exactly what I'm on about. The fact you quote synthetic benchmarks proves YOU know nothing.

The CPU scores increase because the tests they conduct saturate the memory bandwidth, video and ESPECIALLY photo editing under 99% of conditions DO NOT.

IF 16Gb is actually slower for you than 12Gb, then something else is wrong. But test after real world test has shown that photoshop runs FASTER with 8Gb vs 6Gb. Or 16Gb vs 12Gb. Simple as that.

See:

http://macperformanceguide.com/images/MacProNehalem/Graph-Photoshop-diglloydMedium.gif

OMGZ, 4 sticks is quicker than 3 sticks!

4x2Gb > 3x2Gb
8x2Gb > 6x2Gb

[WardC]

That's a memory-intensive test and only dependent on the amount of memory you have. I can positively tell you that web pages are loading faster for me on 12GB than 16GB of RAM, and that's easy to see when you use my machine. That is directly tied to the faster Integer speed on the CPU, not the amount of data that can be loaded into RAM at once. Photoshop test would prove faster with 16GB over 12GB because you could load more data into RAM at once time with large files, but your Integer and Floating Point speeds determine the overall speed and user experience of your machine in anything but Photoshop or Lightroom.

[Concorde Rules]

That's a memory-intensive test and only dependent on the amount of memory you have. I can positively tell you that web pages are loading faster for me on 12GB than 16GB of RAM, and that's easy to see when you use my machine. That is directly tied to the faster Integer speed on the CPU, not the amount of data that can be loaded into RAM at once. Photoshop test would prove faster with 16GB over 12GB because you could load more data into RAM at once time with large files, but your Integer and Floating Point speeds determine the overall speed and user experience of your machine in anything but Photoshop or Lightroom.

I will have to do my own tests but from my experience more memory bandwidth has made sod all effect on everything apart from synthetic benchmarks, and my god have I done enough of them.

[Honumaui]

a lot of times the mind thinks things are faster ? when doing my LR tests I swore things were way faster then when actual times came in I was shocked they were not !!!


now not saying 3 is not faster than 4 ? it is ? but really it wont be something you notice on web pages etc.. ? I would love to see really solid tests showing this with solid proof cause the proof I have seen is showing a few % max gains ever and that is when its taxed out ?

its like saying one car does 180 and the other 200 but getting to the 180 they are dead even its not till the end that the other pulls ahead ?


again I have not tested this in person but have seen others test and not going to retest since it seems to be a non issue

but that small % when needed is worth it to me so I have 3 8gig sticks ;)

[strausd]

Ya I got 20GB in mine right now and I've used it all up a few times. I'm gonna be upgrading pretty soon.

[ahavriluk]

Received my 2 x 4GB sticks from OWC yesterday. Ran XBench tests with following memory configurations:

3x1GB = 3GB
2x4GB = 8GB
2x4GB + 1GB = 9GB
2x4GB + 2x1GB = 10GB

Not a significant difference in memory bandwidth or overall system score. More memory helped threading a lot but everything else not so much, about 5-10%.
I left it with 10GB for now.

[Munc]

so I can run 2x4gb + 2x1gb in my 2009 mac pro quad 2.66?

[ahavriluk]

so I can run 2x4gb + 2x1gb in my 2009 mac pro quad 2.66?

Looks like... I have Mac Pro 2010. Works fine.