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pinsrw
Oct 1, 2010, 08:24 AM
People,

Recently we were shopping for a DVD player and we wanted something that offered more, because we often watch YouTube videos -- more than we watch regular TV at this point -- and it's not easy to watch them on our TV. The process of getting a video from YouTube to the TV is laborious: Download flv, convert to mp4 using ffmpeg, burn DVD using iDVD. For a 30 minute video it can take an hour.

The idea that Apple TV would allow us to bypass that and show YouTube on the TV directly was enticing. Unfortunately for some reason Apple has hobbled Apple TV in two ways:

1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?



Intell
Oct 1, 2010, 08:25 AM
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

Because Apple doesn't see optical media in the future. All it sees is digital downloads. It's probably along the same lines as to why there are no Blu-ray drives in Macs yet.

GoCubsGo
Oct 1, 2010, 08:28 AM
Sort of defeats the purpose of iTunes, don't you think?

iowamensan
Oct 1, 2010, 08:44 AM
I know, right? and why isn't there a CD player on iPods? It's ridiculous.

:cool:

maturola
Oct 1, 2010, 08:47 AM
I know, right? and why isn't there a CD player on iPods? It's ridiculous.

:cool:

:D:D LOL this was so funny!!!

Hankcah
Oct 1, 2010, 08:47 AM
Who uses DVD/CDs anymore?? Just one more thing to break really. IMO, Apple wants to minimalize the copyright issues, since someone can obviously JailBreak it and then rip DVDs to their TV. There are ways to get it on there, but you could just pay a few dollars and have the movie on there.....

Why give users DVDs to scratch when Apple can keep them in the "cloud" scratchfree!

Hellhammer
Oct 1, 2010, 08:49 AM
Apple wants you to buy content from iTunes

OllyW
Oct 1, 2010, 08:53 AM
Who uses DVD/CDs anymore??

Loads of people. DVDs still outsell digital downloads by a huge margin.

I agree with everyone else though, there's never going to be an optical disc player built into the Apple TV.

maturola
Oct 1, 2010, 08:54 AM
Loads of people. DVDs still outsell digital downloads by a huge margin.

I agree with everyone else though, there's never going to be an optical disc player built into the Apple TV.

To be honest, that is not completely true on new releases, I guess we are just at the tipping point:rolleyes:

OllyW
Oct 1, 2010, 08:58 AM
To be honest, that is not completely true on new releases, I guess we are just at the tipping point:rolleyes:

Nowhere near yet. :rolleyes:

OutSpoken
Oct 1, 2010, 09:07 AM
Who uses DVD/CDs anymore?? Just one more thing to break really. IMO, Apple wants to minimalize the copyright issues, since someone can obviously JailBreak it and then rip DVDs to their TV. There are ways to get it on there, but you could just pay a few dollars and have the movie on there.....

Why give users DVDs to scratch when Apple can keep them in the "cloud" scratchfree!

Speak for yourself, in our hosehold we STILL regularly buy dvds. In our opinion it's not dead yet.:D

spice weasel
Oct 1, 2010, 09:43 AM
OP: Do yourself a favor and put the money you were going to spend on a DVD player towards a new Apple TV instead. Then, take your existing DVDs and rip and encode them. Yes, it might take a while depending on the speed of your computer and the size of your movie collection, but you only have to do it once. Then you can stream whatever you want with the press of a few buttons.

As for watching YouTube videos on the computer, just hook up a laptop to your tv. That's if you have a laptop. If not, and if you really want a DVD player, a keyboard input, etc., get yourself a Mac mini and connect it to you tv.

But let's be realistic here. There's no compelling reason why Apple should put a DVD player in its Apple TV device, other than the fact that you want one. Some people still watch VHS (my neighbor, for example, who has a HUGE movie collection on tape), but that doesn't mean the Apple TV needs to come with a VCR deck. The technology is old. In the case of the DVD it isn't quite dead yet, but it's most definitely heading in that direction. Whether or not digital downloads win out over Blu-ray is still up in the air, but the DVD is on life support at this point. Just accept it.

maturola
Oct 1, 2010, 09:47 AM
Nowhere near yet. :rolleyes:

Not sure what you are talking about but 2 weeks ago there was news that Digital and Streaming sales of new released movies surpass the actual DVD sales, they said this is mostly due to the fact that the movies are available on Cable PPV and Streaming few days and in some cases weeks before actual media release.

If i find the article I'll link it

tripjammer
Oct 1, 2010, 09:51 AM
People,

Recently we were shopping for a DVD player and we wanted something that offered more, because we often watch YouTube videos -- more than we watch regular TV at this point -- and it's not easy to watch them on our TV. The process of getting a video from YouTube to the TV is laborious: Download flv, convert to mp4 using ffmpeg, burn DVD using iDVD. For a 30 minute video it can take an hour.

The idea that Apple TV would allow us to bypass that and show YouTube on the TV directly was enticing. Unfortunately for some reason Apple has hobbled Apple TV in two ways:

1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

dude DVD players are so late 90's and early 2000's!

Itunes, netflix, hulu, youtube and apps!

Get with the times my friend!

jamesarm97
Oct 1, 2010, 09:53 AM
I would be happy with a DVD sharing / streaming feature where you put the DVD in an iMac / Laptop and the Apple TV can play from there.

pinsrw
Oct 1, 2010, 10:01 AM
Because Apple doesn't see optical media in the future.

So in other words, because Apple can't profit from rentals of DVDs at libraries and kiosks and video stores, it's selling a product that doesn't support them. Isn't that kind of insane? I mean the definition of psychosis is detachment from reality and interacting with an imaginary world. The idea that humans will conform to Apple's imaginary world in which DVDs don't exist is really nuts. I wonder if Steve Jobs signed off on this policy.

pinsrw
Oct 1, 2010, 10:02 AM
Get with the times my friend!

So what should I do, throw out my DVD collection to help out old Apple? Am I not supposed to have free will anymore?

KeithJenner
Oct 1, 2010, 10:06 AM
So what should I do, throw out my DVD collection to help out old Apple? Am I not supposed to have free will anymore?

No, all you need to do if you want to play DVD's is buy some equipment that plays them. There are plenty out there. If Apple don't want to support DVDs on a piece of kit then that is their choice. Nobody is making you buy it.

pinsrw
Oct 1, 2010, 10:06 AM
Who uses DVD/CDs anymore?

Everyone I know uses DVDs because library and kiosk rentals are $1 or $2. And many people prefer to own a DVD rather than briefly rent one, especially when you can buy them at Walmart for $5 or less.

Online rentals are only a good idea so long as Apple or whoever else doesn't start censoring content, which you know they will do eventually.

jclardy
Oct 1, 2010, 10:07 AM
I still buy DVD as long as the price is right...BestBuy seems to be trying to phase out the DVD by making new releases the same price on BluRay as DVD...for example, Iron Man 2 this week was $18 on DVD or BluRay. But since I watch most movies I am interested in in theaters, I usually wait till the dvd copy goes on sale.

I typically don't buy a lot of movies though as I use Netflix for streaming plus the DVD I send back and forth.

But really, can't you just buy a DVD player from WalMart for like $9.99 now? Honestly if Apple put a dvd player in the Apple TV people would have been complaining about how it uses such an old technology.

What would be cool is if Apple TV could use drive sharing like in Mac OS. So I can put a DVD or CD into my mac mini in another room and stream it to the Apple TV. But that probably won't happen as it would make it simpler to view physical media on the Apple TV, taking away from digital sales.

Mr Kram
Oct 1, 2010, 10:08 AM
So what should I do, throw out my DVD collection to help out old Apple? Am I not supposed to have free will anymore?

you have free will. don't buy an apple tv.

pinsrw
Oct 1, 2010, 10:08 AM
Nobody is making you buy it.

I agree but it's their choice to make an inferior product. It's another instance of business people being the biggest impediment to commerce. If they can't completely control the consumer they aren't happy. They're like Stalin without the death camps. They're like RIAA without the lawsuits.

DJinTX
Oct 1, 2010, 10:23 AM
So in other words, because Apple can't profit from rentals of DVDs at libraries and kiosks and video stores, it's selling a product that doesn't support them. Isn't that kind of insane? I mean the definition of psychosis is detachment from reality and interacting with an imaginary world. The idea that humans will conform to Apple's imaginary world in which DVDs don't exist is really nuts. I wonder if Steve Jobs signed off on this policy.

I can understand someone wanting Apple to come out with a product that perfectly meets their needs. Personally, I want Apple to come out with a Super AppleTV that has a 2TB SSD, blu-ray, multi-stream cablecard slots, DVR functionality, plays any audio/video format, has an App store, and has a monthly all-you-can-consume flat rate of $30. Or I would even settle for any combination of these features. Of course considering the laws of reality, we know this will never happen.

Now, given your request, it is definitely possible to add a DVD player, but that is not the product that they wanted to make. Are you saying that Apple should be required to do it, just because it is possible and because you want/need it? In my mind it seems a bit "Nazi-Tastic" for any individual group or agency to be able to require a company to add any specific functionality. Apple can determine what product they bring to market, and if people don't like it, they won't buy it. And it will die out. Simple as that.

All in all, if it's not the right product for you, then opt for something else.

spice weasel
Oct 1, 2010, 10:27 AM
I agree but it's their choice to make an inferior product. It's another instance of business people being the biggest impediment to commerce. If they can't completely control the consumer they aren't happy. They're like Stalin without the death camps. They're like RIAA without the lawsuits.

Really? I mean, really? Steve Jobs not putting a DVD player in the Apple TV makes him a megalomaniac trying to control your life?

Here's your solution: buy a cheap DVD player and stop complaining.

Bufordt
Oct 1, 2010, 10:33 AM
1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

Wife and I use the remote for the ipad, iphone or ipod as external keyboard for browsing you tube.

Doesn't need a DVD player. I use handbrake to convert the dvd's to itunes format and then play through Apple TV. Apple didn't hobble the Apple TV at all. Works just great the way it is.

scottuf
Oct 1, 2010, 10:37 AM
1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.


the remote app for iphone, etc lets you type using that keyboard. much easier

OptyCT
Oct 1, 2010, 10:45 AM
People,

Recently we were shopping for a DVD player and we wanted something that offered more, because we often watch YouTube videos -- more than we watch regular TV at this point -- and it's not easy to watch them on our TV. The process of getting a video from YouTube to the TV is laborious: Download flv, convert to mp4 using ffmpeg, burn DVD using iDVD. For a 30 minute video it can take an hour.

The idea that Apple TV would allow us to bypass that and show YouTube on the TV directly was enticing. Unfortunately for some reason Apple has hobbled Apple TV in two ways:

1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

You can watch your DVD's on the Apple TV, you just have to rip them and stream them. Sure, it's a pain in the a$$, but you do it once, then you'll have your entire DVD collection immediately available to you via your AppleTV (streaming from your computer, of course). With regards to the keyboard, I believe you can use the iPad's / iPhone's keyboard via the Remote app, if you have one. Agreeing with the OP, I am surprised that Apple didn't build in Bluetooth functionality so that the ATV can work with Apple's wireless keyboard. It seems like a natural fit. Who knows, maybe there will be a Bluetooth add-on via the micro-USB slot in the future.

belvdr
Oct 1, 2010, 11:00 AM
I'd suggest an LG BD550 (http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/video/LG-blu-ray-dvd-player-BD550.jsp) or something similar. You get to keep your disks and play YouTube, Netflix, Pandora, and others.

This is a case where an ATV doesn't fit the bill.

pinsrw
Oct 1, 2010, 11:36 AM
Really? I mean, really? Steve Jobs not putting a DVD player in the Apple TV makes him a megalomaniac trying to control your life?

Well no, that was hyperbole :)

KDR
Oct 1, 2010, 11:48 AM
People,

Recently we were shopping for a DVD player and we wanted something that offered more, because we often watch YouTube videos -- more than we watch regular TV at this point -- and it's not easy to watch them on our TV. The process of getting a video from YouTube to the TV is laborious: Download flv, convert to mp4 using ffmpeg, burn DVD using iDVD. For a 30 minute video it can take an hour.

The idea that Apple TV would allow us to bypass that and show YouTube on the TV directly was enticing. Unfortunately for some reason Apple has hobbled Apple TV in two ways:

1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

You are making this way too difficult. Get an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad to use as a remote for your Apple TV and there's your keyboard. If you don't have one or don't want to pay for a new one, buy a used iPhone or iPod touch off of ebay.

mchalebk
Oct 1, 2010, 12:42 PM
Online rentals are only a good idea so long as Apple or whoever else doesn't start censoring content, which you know they will do eventually.
There is no reason to believe that Apple (or others) will start censoring the material. In fact, this is the first time I’ve ever heard this concern brought up. There are many reasons to stick with physical media over streaming, but this is not one of them.

I agree but it's their choice to make an inferior product.
Just because a device doesn’t offer features you want does not make it “inferior ”, it just means it doesn't do what you want it to do. The new AppleTV doesn’t do what I want it to do (I want local storage and syncing), but that doesn’t make it an inferior product; it simply makes it a poor fit for my needs.

It's another instance of business people being the biggest impediment to commerce. If they can't completely control the consumer they aren't happy. They're like Stalin without the death camps. They're like RIAA without the lawsuits.
I’m sorry, but here you’ve lost any credibility you might have had. Apple does what Apple does. However, just because they’re not building a product that does what you want does not mean they are an “impediment to commerce”. They have done nothing to make it more difficult for you to view DVDs on your TV. And they’ve done nothing to make it more difficult or more expensive to purchase or rent DVDs. They have simply provided a device that does what they think a lot of people want.

The fact of the matter is that no manufacturer builds a single device that will do everything that most people might want for playing media on their home theater system. If they added a DVD player, I wouldn’t want it. Why? Because I’ve moved on to Blu-ray. Adding a DVD player would actually be ludicrous. Physical media is far from dead. However, no company is going to offer cutting edge technology paired with a… DVD player.

And I’m not even going to dignify the “Stalin” comment.

Skaught
Oct 1, 2010, 04:13 PM
Apple didn't put a DVD player in it because it's a streaming media player, not a DVD player.

Same reason why Sony didn't put a streaming media player in their DVD player. And why you can't buy Chinese food at Taco Bell. And why Honda didn't put a espresso machine in their car.

Different things for different purposes.

Scott

Skaught
Oct 1, 2010, 04:15 PM
Everyone I know uses DVDs because library and kiosk rentals are $1 or $2. And many people prefer to own a DVD rather than briefly rent one, especially when you can buy them at Walmart for $5 or less.

Online rentals are only a good idea so long as Apple or whoever else doesn't start censoring content, which you know they will do eventually.

Why in the world do you think they will do that "eventually"?

Sorry, but that's starting to go off into coo coo ville.

Scott

pasipple
Oct 1, 2010, 04:27 PM
Well beyond coo coo ville...possibly a screw loose!

brentsg
Oct 1, 2010, 07:04 PM
So in other words, because Apple can't profit from rentals of DVDs at libraries and kiosks and video stores, it's selling a product that doesn't support them. Isn't that kind of insane? I mean the definition of psychosis is detachment from reality and interacting with an imaginary world. The idea that humans will conform to Apple's imaginary world in which DVDs don't exist is really nuts. I wonder if Steve Jobs signed off on this policy.

AppleTV is simply a vehicle. The real money is made from the content. If you think it's insane for Apple to "omit" a DVD player from this device then you are the one detached from reality.

paulisme
Oct 1, 2010, 10:21 PM
My MacBook doesn't have a tape deck.

Skaught
Oct 3, 2010, 09:14 PM
I just noticed, my iPhone doesn't have a laserdisc player.

Scott

newagemac
Oct 3, 2010, 09:27 PM
I just bought a Sega Genesis game for my iPod Touch and then realized there was no place to insert the game cartridge. :mad:

COME ON APPLE YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS!!!!!!!111111!

doboy
Oct 3, 2010, 09:48 PM
People,

Recently we were shopping for a DVD player and we wanted something that offered more, because we often watch YouTube videos -- more than we watch regular TV at this point -- and it's not easy to watch them on our TV. The process of getting a video from YouTube to the TV is laborious: Download flv, convert to mp4 using ffmpeg, burn DVD using iDVD. For a 30 minute video it can take an hour.

The idea that Apple TV would allow us to bypass that and show YouTube on the TV directly was enticing. Unfortunately for some reason Apple has hobbled Apple TV in two ways:

1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

I think you're missing the point. It's a streaming box like Roku. Do other streaming boxes have DVD slot? What you need is a DVD player with YouTube/Netflix capabilities or media PC.

Per your point about external keyboard, you need to watch Steve's keynote introducing the AppleTV. I would imagine for most people who buys AppleTV would also own an iPhone/Pad/Touch that can be used as keyboard like I do.

chriso89
Oct 4, 2010, 04:06 AM
I agree but it's their choice to make an inferior product. It's another instance of business people being the biggest impediment to commerce. If they can't completely control the consumer they aren't happy. They're like Stalin without the death camps. They're like RIAA without the lawsuits.

why shold it be a dvd player in it? most people has a dvd player and dont need a new one.

when i get my apple tv i wil only rent the dvd. becuse i sondt see a movie more then 1 time. maybe 2! if you need a dvd player buy one. the price is low

ericvmazzone
Oct 4, 2010, 05:20 AM
Really? I mean, really? Steve Jobs not putting a DVD player in the Apple TV makes him a megalomaniac trying to control your life?

Here's your solution: buy a cheap DVD player and stop complaining.

He just invalidated his whole argument by making the Stalin comparison. Enough said, we obviously can't make people that feel entitled understand that if something they want does not meet all their feature requirements they have other choices other than just whining and throwing childish fits.

steviem
Oct 4, 2010, 05:38 AM
If you get a $1 or $2 DVD from Wal-Mart, just put it in your computer and get Handbrake to convert it to MP4. Then you can use it on just about all of your devices :D

I wouldn't want a DVD drive in the Apple TV.

There's nothing wrong with your DVDs and no reason to throw them out, but wouldn't you rather have the physical media put away safe and be able to use an Apple TV (or DLNA player) to access them on your TV?

I hate the clutter physical media brings with it. Wouldn't it be better to put them out of sight but still have instant access to your movies?

drewc1138
Oct 4, 2010, 09:02 AM
Because Apple doesn't see optical media in the future. All it sees is digital downloads. It's probably along the same lines as to why there are no Blu-ray drives in Macs yet.

So in other words, because Apple can't profit from rentals of DVDs at libraries and kiosks and video stores, it's selling a product that doesn't support them. Isn't that kind of insane? I mean the definition of psychosis is detachment from reality and interacting with an imaginary world. The idea that humans will conform to Apple's imaginary world in which DVDs don't exist is really nuts. I wonder if Steve Jobs signed off on this policy.

Right after the iPhone keynote, Jobs used a Wayne Gretzky quote that I have LOVED ever since..."I don't skate to where the puck is...I skate to where the puck will be." Or something along those lines.

Reread what the post that you replied to actually said. Apple doesn't see optical media being a viable option in the future. It's not like they live in some fantasy world where they just pretend that no one uses DVDs...they know that the days in which people consume media via physical discs are numbered, and they're pushing the market on to that point. Same as they did with the floppy drive back in the day.

And to your psychosis comment, I say:

Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.

PeterQVenkman
Oct 4, 2010, 09:37 AM
Apple doesn't make money if you buy DVDs - even if you watch on your mac. They only make money when you buy them off of iTunes and when you buy apple products.

They want you to buy their DRM movies and tv so that when your Apple TV breaks or you want to upgrade to a better unit, you must buy another Apple product to keep watching that proprietary content you already "own". No DVD on Apple TV = a heavier chain around your ankle when you buy their products.

godslabrat
Oct 4, 2010, 09:49 AM
Apple doesn't make money if you buy DVDs - even if you watch on your mac. They only make money when you buy them off of iTunes and when you buy apple products.

They want you to buy their DRM movies and tv so that when your Apple TV breaks or you want to upgrade to a better unit, you must buy another Apple product to keep watching that proprietary content you already "own". No DVD on Apple TV = a heavier chain around your ankle when you buy their products.

Say what you will about the future of physical media... this is the real, and ONLY, reason Apple is trying to get away from DVD and refusing to support BluRay in the first place.

PeterQVenkman
Oct 4, 2010, 10:54 AM
Say what you will about the future of physical media... this is the real, and ONLY, reason Apple is trying to get away from DVD and refusing to support BluRay in the first place.

It sure is. People keep spouting other reasons, like nobody buys discs, one can't see the difference between 1080p and 480i, etc.

It's all a smoke screen. Apple is trying maximize profits by limiting choice on their hardware. From a business stand point, it makes sense. From a user's standpoint, it sucks.

godslabrat
Oct 4, 2010, 01:48 PM
It sure is. People keep spouting other reasons, like nobody buys discs, one can't see the difference between 1080p and 480i, etc.

It's all a smoke screen. Apple is trying maximize profits by limiting choice on their hardware. From a business stand point, it makes sense. From a user's standpoint, it sucks.

Even the business angle will eventually hurt them, if it hasn't already. This stance is starting to affect Apple's relationship with video professionals, especially the "prosumer" groups who might want to work with HD video but don't have a ton of money to throw at additional hardware and software. Granted, it's still not impossible to configure a low-end Mac to edit BluRay, but the hoops you have to jump through are very hostile to those interested.

In addition, if Apple really wants the AppleTV to be the premium STB in the living room, they're going to have to make some tough choices. So far, Apple's had decent success with Movies in the iTMS, but they've also chosen to not sell movies with mature content. That's fine for them, but they'll need to recognize that lots of customers do watch Strong R, NC-17 and Unrated movies, to say nothing of plain old porn. The buying public is not going to give up these types of movies just because Apple released a new gizmo, and AppleTV will never be a primary device so long as it excludes a great deal of popular content. Apple has to either relax their content standards and approval process, or accept AppleTV's place as a secondary device. I believe they find both options highly distasteful.

There's only so long you can resist what the customers want before it starts to hurt the bottom line. In at least some areas, Apple is hitting this point.

brentsg
Oct 4, 2010, 07:19 PM
Apple doesn't make money if you buy DVDs - even if you watch on your mac. They only make money when you buy them off of iTunes and when you buy apple products.

I think people are reading too much into this.

Apple created a device for the purpose of watching iTunes content on your TV. Period, end of story.

Apple didn't set out to create the best HTPC ever. That's simply a different product.

TiggyF
Oct 4, 2010, 07:37 PM
People,

Recently we were shopping for a DVD player and we wanted something that offered more, because we often watch YouTube videos -- more than we watch regular TV at this point -- and it's not easy to watch them on our TV. The process of getting a video from YouTube to the TV is laborious: Download flv, convert to mp4 using ffmpeg, burn DVD using iDVD. For a 30 minute video it can take an hour.

The idea that Apple TV would allow us to bypass that and show YouTube on the TV directly was enticing. Unfortunately for some reason Apple has hobbled Apple TV in two ways:

1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

Mate forget all the Apple fanboys here giving you a hard time, what you want is a fair request but - the ATV is not for you

Look at some of the new Blu Ray Players - Sony BDP S370 / S470 / S570
for example (Samsung and Lg also)

These play DVD very well, stream Netflix, play movies and Tv from your computer (in more formats than ATV) do youtube
also play music and video via USB sticks and from home video camerra

o and play Blu Ray

and they are around $200

The GUI is not as slick as ATV - but it's not bad

Frankly for your stated needs walk all over an ATV

burgundyyears
Oct 4, 2010, 11:14 PM
The idea that Apple TV would allow us to bypass that and show YouTube on the TV directly was enticing. Unfortunately for some reason Apple has hobbled Apple TV in two ways:

1. It doesn't permit an external keyboard, so we can't browse YouTube easily at all.
2. It doesn't have a DVD player, so we can't play any of our numerous preexisting DVDs not anything that we get at the library for $2.

Why does Apple hobble Apple TV in this way?

You're absolutely right. The iMac will fail and take Apple with it because of their stubborn refusal to spec it with a floppy drive.

TiggyF
Oct 4, 2010, 11:45 PM
You're absolutely right. The iMac will fail and take Apple with it because of their stubborn refusal to spec it with a floppy drive.

To be fair, apple could have easly implemented shared optical drive (as per mack book air) on ATV

but of course they do not want us using the thing for existing content :)

illitrate23
Oct 5, 2010, 03:42 PM
might it be because the ATV is 9.75cm in width whereas a dvd is 12cm across the diameter?