iLife '05, Keynote 2, Asteroid, and Other New Applications?

[MacRumors]

Think Secret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0412expo1.html) announcements they expect at Macworld Expo in San Francisco in January:

iLife '05:
- iTunes 4.7.1 -- minor update
- iPhoto 5 -- update
- iMovie 5 HD -- new name; support for high definition video, MPEG-4, and the 16:9 aspect ratio
- iDVD 5 -- one-click copying of DV tapes to DVDs; support for dual-layer DVD media; burning directly from an iPhoto library
- Garageband 2 -- additional instruments and possibly new loops
Keynote 2 -- new transitions, which Steve Jobs has been observed using in presetations (see also previous rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041209142551.shtml))
Asteroid (code-name), previously rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/11/20041123012226.shtml) and the subject of legal action (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041217183705.shtml)
Crossbow (code-name) -- new application related to Keynote
Slingshot (code-name) -- new application related to Keynote
Sugar (code-name) -- new application, purpose unknown

[iJon]

This is great news. I am glad ThinkSecret finally reported this stuff. This will be a nice thing to wake up to after I get back from my trip.

jon

[DavidLeblond]

Queue the barrage of speculation as to what "Sugar", "Crossbow", and "Slingshot" are.

Where's our iPod Flash??? ;)

[rosalindavenue]

Minor minor minor-- what about the powerbook updates? I dont think the last ibook revisions would have taken place if the pbooks were going to stagnate any longer-- can't someone leak a powerbook update?

[roadapple]

Appleworks X?

[DTphonehome]

Minor minor minor-- what about the powerbook updates? I dont think the last ibook revisions would have taken place if the pbooks were going to stagnate any longer-- can't someone leak a powerbook update?

These are the SOFTWARE announcements expected. Don't know what Asteroid is doing in there, but presumably there is some software associated with it. I'm sure there will be hardware updates, too.

--DT

[Littleodie914]

Woo hoo, sounds pretty sweet. Nice to see they're getting back into Keynote, I heavily prefer it over PPT, but Apple hasn't really updated it in a while. As for that thing code-named sugar... I guess we're gonna have to wait and see. :D :rolleyes:

BTW... Shouldn't Apple be announcing 10 new Tiger features by now? I mean it's not that far off.

[Flying Llama]

...iDVD 5 will also support dual-layer (8.5GB) DVD media, enabling users to burn DVDs up to 4 hours long or shorter movies at higher quality.

could this mean we will be soon seeing apple computers with dual-layer superdrives in them?? :eek:

[Doctor Q]

These are the SOFTWARE announcements expected. Don't know what Asteroid is doing in there, but presumably there is some software associated with it. I'm sure there will be hardware updates, too.Think Secret will presumably report what they know about hardware announcements (including more about Asteroid) when they are ready to summarize it.

[shemp9999]

so, i got an iMac G5 for the girlfriend _today_ how much is iLife '05 gonna cost me?

[Brevity]

This is great news. I am glad ThinkSecret finally reported this stuff. This will be a nice thing to wake up to after I get back from my trip.

I agree. This is fantastic news.

[dcollierp]

Just waiting for Keynote 2. This is one of Apples better apps.

[Freg3000]

so, i got an iMac G5 for the girlfriend _today_ how much is iLife '05 gonna cost me?

iLife and iLife '04 were both $49. Chunk change for the iLife apps methinks.

2 Keynote related apps...hmmm...how about Document and Spreadsheet? :D

[m-dogg]

:rolleyes:

I just ordered a new iMac a half hour ago - how far back do they typically 'grandfather' a purchase to include a software update like this? I'm supposed to ship in 3-5 business days...think I'd be able to get this for free?

[mox358]

I admit... I love my iPod - its one of the best ideas Apple ever had. But I spend WAY more time using my Mac than I do listening to music on my iPod. The software that I use ( Mac OS, iLife etc..) are a much bigger part of my computer usage than my MP3 Player. With Apple's gaze upon the iPod wonderchild as of late, its nice to see updates to the programs I use everyday. And this "new application" is very intriuging to me also - could be something I can't live without and don't know it yet. Its nice to see apple hasn't forgotten the fact that while the iPod is a revolution and a cash cow, its only a link in the digital hub. Now they're going to rennovate the hub and make it a better experience. If only iTunes 5 were included it would be complete. But I suppose that we be reserved for a new iPod announcement ;)

[Durendal]

HD support in iMovie? Not a chance. iMovie is the consumer application for people who want to edit videos of their kids running around the backyard. Final Cut Express doesn't support HD, so there's no way they'll add such a high-end capability to iMovie at this time. They probably wont for years.

[mpw]

Appleworks X?

That would be 'sweet'.

[edenwaith]

Appleworks X?

Please, oh, please, oh please. :) It certainly would be nice if Apple did make a proper successor to AppleWorks instead of letting it die slowly on the vine.

[iris_failsafe]

How about pro video cards, Nvidia Quadro, ATI fire GL, I read an article that said that the problem was that Apple didn't want tu support them...

:eek:

[blackfox]

could this mean we will be soon seeing apple computers with dual-layer superdrives in them?? :eek:
I believe many of the current models already do. Apple seems to have (temporarily) disabled this feature. This has been discussed in several threads around here, but I am too lazy to look for them...

[applekid]

Finally some news we can work with. :)

You really want to read ThinkSecret's article for complete details. iDVD 5 is sounding sweet. I'm hoping I can take my non-DV VCR, hook it up a DV Bridge, and be able to do one click DVD creation. That would be sweet. Also, dual-layer support (check out the article for that detail) sounds like there may be some dual-layer DVD burners coming soon from Apple... :eek: I hope the iLife '05 apps will have some great features worth looking at.

I may skip this update, but if there's something that just grabs my attention, I'm going to be definitely begging to purchase iLife sometime soon.

Keynote must be really popular for Apple to be interested in created Keynote-related products Slingshot and Crossbow. I'll guess they're some Apple theme packs, but hopefully something more amazing. Wasn't there interest in making a projector? This just might be it.

Sugar sounds sweet, whatever it may be. :p Something cool... Maybe it's the flash iPod. It'd be sweet. :)

So begins the rumors of MWSF. Love it!

I hope this keynote's theme is about blowing the Mac users away. Less iPod talk and more things about the Mac. That's what matters to us more, Apple.

[Wuddel]

Well, I bet one of the Keynote-related products is a Bluetooth-presentation remote.

[Doctor Q]

In hindsight, do the code names chosen for Apple products over the last couple of years give clues as to what the products were for?

[Frisco]

More reasons why Windows sucks.......................forever Mac!

[NEoPHYte31]

I'm not big on software... where's the HARDWARE updates? :)

Hmmm... I wonder when those G5 Powerbooks will be coming out... :)

[Steven1621]

That would be 'sweet'.

I don't know. IMO I think Apple should just drop the whole appleworks line. Again IMO I think MS Office is good and everyone wants their office suite to be MS-related. Apple will be hard pressed to bring people away from Office, no matter how good the new appleworks might be.

[bborofka]

Does anyone remember that Apple trademarked iWrite a while back? Maybe that will finally see the light of day.

[iGary]

Unfortunately, this software does nothing for me, personally.

I'll be sticking with iLife 04, unless it's cheapo with an edu discount.

Ready for some hardware, but I assume we'll be hearing abotu that soon. :D

[t300]

I want TIGER...I want to hear about existing features, new features, and most importantly, the night I will be camping out to get it...

[Thundercorp]

:rolleyes:

I just ordered a new iMac a half hour ago - how far back do they typically 'grandfather' a purchase to include a software update like this? I'm supposed to ship in 3-5 business days...think I'd be able to get this for free?

You ordered a Mac just a few days before a Macworld Expo??? Right before newer, faster, cheaper Macs are introduced?? That's a Mac-user sin ya know!

[applekid]

In hindsight, do the code names chosen for Apple products over the last couple of years give clues as to what the products were for?

Good question.

I'm thinking of the code names that were used for the beige box Macs, and they had nothing to do with the machine. And think about Allegro and Copland, OS 9 and OS 8 (or was that at least the interface's code name?), respectively. If there's some sort of connection, tell me, because I don't see one.

[HasanDaddy]

incorporating HD into iMovie makes a lot of sense, as Apple needs to start accomodating for the Mini DV cameras that record in HDV ---- currently, JVC has such a camera, and Sony is on the verge of releasing one

That is a great sign, as Windows does not have a cheap solution for HDV --- so Apple will pull ahead greatly, in this respect

[applekid]

Ready for some hardware, but I assume we'll be hearing abotu that soon. :D

Assuming that "Road to Expo" in the article name at Think Secret is implying this is part of a series of articles, I think we'll hear some good hardware rumors soon enough... :)

[ChrisH3677]

Sugar? Maybe some sort of software that creates a compatibility link between data from non-compatible applications.

[Xtremehkr]

Appleworks X please! I find the current one still meets all of my needs, but it would be nice if it were on par with other Mac Apps.

Considering the long delay of the Powerbook G5 (which is probably really not Apples fault) I hope that it arrives as a product that exceeds what everyone has been hoping for. Think optimistic! :D

(yeah I could have used 'optimistically' but it just didn't fit)

[~Shard~]

Sugar? Maybe some sort of software that creates a compatibility link between data from non-compatible applications.

Whatever it is, I'm sure it'll be sweet.... <groan>

[BornAgainMac]

iTunes 5? It's seems like they are done with it. I remember a thread that had some really good suggestions for the next version. iMovie seems to good to be true. I hope it has more surprises also. The last update was minor. iPhoto needs the most work. iDVD needs to work with modern DVD burners including third-party drives. I want to replace my 4x drive to a 16x drive that supports 4 hours of video but not have to upgrade to DVD Pro.

[zwilliams07]

I can't wait to see what Steve have up his black sleeves this year. I hope he will state a clearer date for the release of Tiger. I also hope that they have a new AppleWorks and Keynote on the way.

Keynote is extremely effective at making other students jealous during team presentations.

[ncoday]

:rolleyes:

I just ordered a new iMac a half hour ago - how far back do they typically 'grandfather' a purchase to include a software update like this? I'm supposed to ship in 3-5 business days...think I'd be able to get this for free?

I believe it is 30 days if memory serves me

[Wuddel]

Well I used Keynote. But face it with all these transitions and effects you just embarras yourself. Maybe a mirror-transition here and there at keypoints but most presentations can be done with a PDF and fullscreen mode. And this is the way it should be!

The only thing would be auto-animations to create some "movies" with objects.

AppleWorks is dead. Don't you understand that Apple has a deal with MS to abandon AppleWorks for continued development of MS Office for the Mac?

[JangoFett124]

I hope one of the Keynote apps is an app for Windows so that I can run Keynote presentations without having to export them. I believe that PowerPoint at one point had a similar app. It is so irritating when I have to run a ppt presentation for a Keynote I made, because either the computer doesn't have Quicktime or the ppt of the presentation loses all of the transitions with all of the images showing up really ugly. I can't help it that most of the computers in my classes run Windows. :(

[ccuilla]

Appleworks X?

While I'd love to see an update to AW as well, I think it is unlikely. I think AW (in its current form) does not fit the architecture/model that Apple is moving towards. Let's think about this for a second...

AW consists of: word processor, spreadsheet, presentation tool, drawing tool, database, painting tool.

Apple has already addressed the presentation component with Keynote. While it is possible they will roll that technology back into AW X, I think they will not.

TextEdit is about two steps away from a full blown word processor. So this component could be taken care of.

This leaves: spread sheet, drawing, painting, database.

My guess would be that painting and drawing could emerge in a new stand-alone application. Possible paint functionality could be added to iPhoto? I think Apple is most likely to ask "What are people actually DOING with these tools?" They might find that most of what people do with a paint program would be adequately handled with some additional features in iPhoto. Just guessing here...but something to think about. In any case CoreImage is certainly a foundation for any "iPaint" application.

Same thing goes for the database...they have built Core Data. Surely this could be the foundation of an AW DB replacement. But the bigger question here is would Apple do the same as above and ask "What are people using the DB functionality for?" Are they mostly doing things like mail merge, and address book kind of stuff for example? If so, perhaps they already have a solution.

I am only speculating here. My point is two-fold:

1. Apple is moving towards component applications that integrate with one another (see iCal, Address Book, Mail as an example) as opposed to tightly integrated applications/application suites (e.g., AppleWorks)

2. Apple is likely to ask some compelling questions about what people really need/want rather than just assume..."everyone needs a generic paint tool" for example.

[DavidLeblond]

So weeks after Apple starts suing people for leaking information on Asteroid, Think Secret is still doing it?

Not that I don't appreciate the leaks...

[BWhaler]

Queue the barrage of speculation as to what "Sugar", "Crossbow", and "Slingshot" are.


Maybe competitive products for:

Word
Excel
Access

I don't think this is the case, but I would be ecstatic if they were.

Of course, I doubt it. It's just funny seeing that there are in fact 3 code names.

And I have to be honest here. Given how painful using Keynote has become and the lack of updates in the past couple of years, I would be cautious before switching from a Microsoft solution to an Apple one. (Yeah, I can't believe I am saying that either.)

But if there are Office Killers and Apple is committed, I'll be the first in line and would switch my entire company in a heart beat.

[mox358]

iLife and iLife '04 were both $49. Chunk change for the iLife apps methinks.

2 Keynote related apps...hmmm...how about Document and Spreadsheet? :D

God please let it be true! I know the chances are terrible, but if apple were to intro those 2 apps alongside keynote 2 as sort of an iLife for productivity I would order it right away. Office X gets me by, but I would love office style apps with apple's polish. I can only dream... but you just made my night with that comment! :D

[DavidLeblond]

Same thing goes for the database...they have built Core Data. Surely this could be the foundation of an AW DB replacement. But the bigger question here is would Apple do the same as above and ask "What are people using the DB functionality for?" Are they mostly doing things like mail merge, and address book kind of stuff for example? If so, perhaps they already have a solution.

Doesn't Apple own Filemaker now?

[bennetsaysargh]

all this sounds good to me :)
although they could do iTunes 5, but then they'd have to change the icon color, and what color do you all propose? :p
if iPhoto had sub-albums, and even sub-libraries, then that would be swell.
garageband sounds good, more loops, and instruments too! i just hope that asteroid product is good too, because i'm buying immediately.

[BWhaler]

I believe many of the current models already do. Apple seems to have (temporarily) disabled this feature. This has been discussed in several threads around here, but I am too lazy to look for them...

They are dual capable drives. There is a patch on the web that makes current drives dual capable and 16x.

Apple dumbed down the drives. I hope to god this is a temporary thing until iLife 05 is introduced and Apple gives us a firmware patch. It's a little shady otherwise.

[BWhaler]

Well I used Keynote. But face it with all these transitions and effects you just embarras yourself. Maybe a mirror-transition here and there at keypoints but most presentations can be done with a PDF and fullscreen mode. And this is the way it should be!

The only thing would be auto-animations to create some "movies" with objects.

AppleWorks is dead. Don't you understand that Apple has a deal with MS to abandon AppleWorks for continued development of MS Office for the Mac?

MS doesn't have a deal with Apple not to develop Appleworks.

Or, did you miss the news about the MS antitrust lawsuit by the DOJ.

[BWhaler]

Doesn't Apple own Filemaker now?

Always.

[Xtremehkr]

Well, I hope Apple considers Appleworks to be an important function. Are they abandoning college students and independant authors? I hope not.

Among others, an App like Appleworks is an integral part of having a computer isn't it?

[jouster]

:rolleyes:

I just ordered a new iMac a half hour ago - how far back do they typically 'grandfather' a purchase to include a software update like this? I'm supposed to ship in 3-5 business days...think I'd be able to get this for free?

But....you visit a Mac rumors site, and you presumably know that MWSF is in a few days. Why not hold off on your purchase for just a little while longer?

Edit: heh, others beat me to it.

[DavidLeblond]

Always.

Or perhaps since they partnered in 2000? :D

[mgescuro]

Maybe competitive products for:

Word
Excel
Access

I don't think this is the case, but I would be ecstatic if they were.




Why woudl Apple want to release a version of Access, when FileMaker is a division of Apple??

[mgescuro]

:rolleyes:

I just ordered a new iMac a half hour ago - how far back do they typically 'grandfather' a purchase to include a software update like this? I'm supposed to ship in 3-5 business days...think I'd be able to get this for free?


yes.... you'll be able to get it for free. I wouldn't worry about it.

[macridah]

Any hardware announcements!? :confused:

[m-dogg]

yes.... you'll be able to get it for free. I wouldn't worry about it.

Cool! I decided to place my order because I was confident a new iMac won't show up at MWSF...in my haste I forgot about a good ole' iLife update! :o

[BWhaler]

Why woudl Apple want to release a version of Access, when FileMaker is a division of Apple??

I was imagining that this would be a FileMaker light version or something of that ilk. Could happen given the changes to the FM group this year.

[tjwett]

this is all good but where in the heck is AppleWorks?!? don't know about everyone else but i'm a little tired of using this dated, renamed Claris app for office duties.

what i'd like to see at MWSF:

BRAND NEW office suite including:
new Keynote, new MS Word killer, spreadsheet blah blah, and some serious iCal/Mail/AddressBook integration, preferably with new verisons of all three. or even better, combine them all into one monster. dump the crappy layout and drawing parts of AppleWorks. i'd like to see a database feature but FileMaker is so damn good, easy-to-use, and inexpensive that i don't see the point really.

iLife is nice but realLife isn't all fun and games and walking around with white headphones on. they need some really great boring productivity solutions to round things out. hopefully they haven't given up on that in the name of the almighty iPod.

[doogle]

Well I used Keynote. But face it with all these transitions and effects you just embarras yourself.

Wrong! :) All you need is a bit of self control and you can avoid the design temptation overkill. Keynote is an elegant software, its interface discourages over use of visual wizardry in presentations...if you allow it into your (i)life...use the force wuddel..use the force.

[dashiel]

Or perhaps since they partnered in 2000? :D

filemaker was originally created by some company in 1982, it was DOS based. then when the mac came out they created a GUI version. the company got bought by microsoft who already had a database app so they gave the rights to filemaker back to the original company.

around that same time apple had created claris, an independent, but wholly owned subsidiary, to sell software. they bought filemaker. claris' offerings started to languish, with only filemaker making them any money. i think either just before or just after steve returned to apple, claris effectively shut down, moving a couple of products back to the apple line (appleworks). filemaker inc was then created, again as a wholly owned subsidiary of apple inc., i think because of apple's precarious situation back in the mid-90's they wanted to distance themselves from each other as much as possible, filemaker was one of apple's only successful cross-platform software titles and many IT departments were frightened of apple (still are to an extent).

so while apple hasn't always owned filemaker, they have done so since about 1988.

[TheMasin9]

Well with these sweet new software updates i sure hope they release some hardware that is as good. Powerbook G5s would be nice, but ill bet we dont see them till WWDC. I would like to see some current G5 boosts as well as more bto options on the imac G5, like video cards. This announcement makes what had been a snoozer of a keynote into a notable presentation.

__________________
15.2 in Powerbook G4 1.5 ghz 512 ram 128 vram
g4 ipod 20 gb
motorola iphone prototype

[Rubin421]

What if Apple actually released Tiger at the expo?

[Laslo Panaflex]

incorporating HD into iMovie makes a lot of sense, as Apple needs to start accomodating for the Mini DV cameras that record in HDV ---- currently, JVC has such a camera, and Sony is on the verge of releasing one

That is a great sign, as Windows does not have a cheap solution for HDV --- so Apple will pull ahead greatly, in this respect

Sorry, I really don't see Apple releasing support for HD in iMovie, and definately not HDV, FCP and FCE don't even have native support for this yet!

Unless they release FCP 5 and FCE 3 both with HDV support and better HD support, then MAYBE iMovie HD, but I doubt it. Right now there aren't even "consumer" HD cameras, and the prosumer ones, JVC and Sony's that use HDV run around 4 grand, highly unlikely that that support is needed in iMovie, which is for low end consumers.

[Lord Blackadder]

What, no hardware? :confused:

I'm sure their will be, maybe the source isn't in on that.

Lots of new software though, the new iApp features look good.

[BornAgainMac]

What, no hardware? :confused:

I'm sure their will be, maybe the source isn't in on that.

Lots of new software though, the new iApp features look good.

Just Asteroid. Perhaps a mouse pad and that's it. Sorry.

[munkle]

How will iLife '05 fit in with Tiger? We already now the iLife suite is getting another revamp with Tiger, so will iLife 'Tiger' be completely independent from iLife '05 or will it be iLife '05 reloaded (to borrow the term from MS!) with some features only for Tiger users?

[obeygiant]

i hope they bump up the desktops. I'm itching to get one.
my 800mhz 1024x768 lcd imac is starting to get to me

[rendezvouscp]

What if Apple actually released Tiger at the expo?

Thousands of Mac users would rejoice and developers would flip. Not saying that it wouldn't be awesome, it's just not reality.
-Chase

[nbaker756]

when is apple going to update to itunes 5. they seem to be beating around the bush. i wonder what they have up their sleeve?

[rendezvouscp]

when is apple going to update to itunes 5. they seem to be beating around the bush. i wonder what they have up their sleeve?

Can they really have that much up their sleeve? I don't think there's a lot Apple can do to make iTunes better, but maybe I'm mistaken.
-Chase

[Chaszmyr]

In hindsight, do the code names chosen for Apple products over the last couple of years give clues as to what the products were for?

In obscure ways, sometimes. For example "Sawtooth" could be seen as referring to all the slots on the mobo as saw teeth.. Or "Antares" (which I think is actually an IBM codename and not Apple) is for a dual core processor. I'm not sure if anyone has actually guessed what a product is based on the codename though.

[cheese1113]

Can they really have that much up their sleeve? I don't think there's a lot Apple can do to make iTunes better, but maybe I'm mistaken.
-Chase

But yet it is Apple.
:p

—cheese1113

[moiety5]

How will iLife '05 fit in with Tiger? We already now the iLife suite is getting another revamp with Tiger, so will iLife 'Tiger' be completely independent from iLife '05 or will it be iLife '05 reloaded (to borrow the term from MS!) with some features only for Tiger users?

Exactly my question!

[Daveway]

Think Secret is also reporting that Apple will be releasing a $499 1.25ghz headless imac at the expo as well, citing reliable sources. I'm excited about this more than anything else. Marketshare=^^^^

http://thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html

[TheWereSloth]

Maybe Slingshot is a way to use keynote with iPod photo? Slingshot in the back pocket, get it?...uh, right.

[maya]

Think Secret is also reporting that Apple will be releasing a $499 1.25ghz headless imac at the expo as well, citing reliable sources. I'm excited about this more than anything else. Marketshare=^^^^

http://thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html

My prediction has come true in a form of a rumour for now and to light at MWSF 2005. :)

[rendezvouscp]

Think Secret is also reporting that Apple will be releasing a $499 1.25ghz headless imac at the expo as well, citing reliable sources. I'm excited about this more than anything else. Marketshare=^^^^

http://thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html

How is that possible? I mean, the head of the iMac is the whole thing! :D ;)
-Chase

[Freg3000]

Think Secret is also reporting that Apple will be releasing a $499 1.25ghz headless imac at the expo as well, citing reliable sources. I'm excited about this more than anything else. Marketshare=^^^^

http://thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html

TS puts it perfectly....Apple drops a BOMB.

This is amazing, and completely reliable coming from TS. Hundreds of us have been wanting this from Apple for so many years....well, you only have to wait 2 more weeks.

[fabsgwu]

This [headless iMac, sub $500] should be great news for Apple if its true. I don't think it would eat away from higher end mac sales, rather it would open up the mac to a new market, and therefore expand the platform as a whole. Also, it could be a good option for companies or schools who have plenty of monitors, but want cheap, reliable workstations for employees/students. Bring it on Steve :)

[maya]

While Apple opens the door to the low end very low end market with these sub 500 USD Mac's this bring concerns in regards to viruses down the road unless Apple has some on the toe plan to bite viruses in a couple short days in regards to security.

Interesting I actually priced all the components in the eMac G5 thread and I was dead on. :)

[Avicdar]

Finally some news we can work with. :)
...
I may skip this update, but if there's something that just grabs my attention, I'm going to be definitely begging to purchase iLife sometime soon.

The only iApps I use these days are iTunes and iPhoto (use iTunes a lot more). My video and DVD stuff is done with the pro apps.

That being said, I will always buy the latest and greatest iApp package, even if I end up using just a part of it. Why? I don't know really. I just FEEL like I have to, as there might be a feature or two in the other apps that I will want to use one day.

Besides, its very inexpensive, and lets me have a shiny new box and go through that great fuzzy warm feeling of installing something new and sweet. Can't go wrong. ;)

[doogle]

Maybe Slingshot is a way to use keynote with iPod photo? Slingshot in the back pocket, get it?...uh, right.

oohh you are tempting me now - this would make an ipod photo worthwhile. :D

[sjpetry]

This new Mac looks sweet. I might consider one as a second computer. :D

[ClimbingTheLog]

When I saw an iMac beta unit it was called the MIB. Men in Black had just been out and it was similarly styled.

The PowerMac 8100 was called the Carl Sagan until he sued Apple over the unauthorized use of his name. It was henceforth called the "Butthead Astronomer".

Slingshot and Crossbow are Word and Excel respectively. See, David used a SlingShot to slay Goliath. Get it?

[TrenchcoatJedi]

Unless they release FCP 5 and FCE 3 both with HDV support and better HD support, then MAYBE iMovie HD, but I doubt it.

Slingshot = FCE 3
Crossbow = FCP 5

[pimentoLoaf]

"Sugar" could be some kind of icing (or iCing... sorry) on the Apple cake.

[gwangung]

The only iApps I use these days are iTunes and iPhoto (use iTunes a lot more). My video and DVD stuff is done with the pro apps.

That being said, I will always buy the latest and greatest iApp package, even if I end up using just a part of it. Why? I don't know really. I just FEEL like I have to, as there might be a feature or two in the other apps that I will want to use one day.

Besides, its very inexpensive, and lets me have a shiny new box and go through that great fuzzy warm feeling of installing something new and sweet. Can't go wrong. ;)

Heh. I think this is an Apple strategy to get our money that no one can object to...... :p

[rendezvouscp]

This is amazing, and completely reliable coming from TS. Hundreds of us have been wanting this from Apple for so many years....well, you only have to wait 2 more weeks.

Plus 500 million weeks of shipping delays.
-Chase

[Rod Rod]

yes.... you'll be able to get it for free. I wouldn't worry about it.

It will cost $19.95 through the iLife '05 Up To Date program.


Appleworks X?

That would be a pretty big leap, to go from 6.2.9 to a version X. If AppleWorks ever gets a new version number it's much more likely to be VII, or 7 if you like.


Why woudl Apple want to release a version of Access, when FileMaker is a division of Apple??

Apple has released GarageBand, but they still sell Soundtrack, Logic Express and Logic.


I was imagining that this would be a FileMaker light version or something of that ilk. Could happen given the changes to the FM group this year.

That's a good idea, and consistent with the multi-tiered approach to music-creation applications Apple has.


iMovie seems to good to be true. I hope it has more surprises also. The last update was minor.

iMovie 4 is a big improvement over iMovie 3. The timeline view became much more flexible compared to previous versions, which made a tremendous difference. But I agree, that description of iMovie 5 is impressive, even incredible.


iPhoto needs the most work. iDVD needs to work with modern DVD burners including third-party drives. I want to replace my 4x drive to a 16x drive that supports 4 hours of video but not have to upgrade to DVD Pro.

The Hurz/Pfurz method plus Patchburn has that taken care of. It's unlikely Apple will officially support external burners in the iApps, but the iDVD with external burners modification works very well at zero risk to your system.


incorporating HD into iMovie makes a lot of sense, as Apple needs to start accomodating for the Mini DV cameras that record in HDV ---- currently, JVC has such a camera, and Sony is on the verge of releasing one

That is a great sign, as Windows does not have a cheap solution for HDV --- so Apple will pull ahead greatly, in this respect

JVC as two HDV cameras on the market, and Sony's consumer HDV camera was released last month. Sony's pro HDV camera is scheduled for release in February.

I agree that HDV support in iMovie would be a huge boon / boost for the Mac platform compared to Windows.


Sorry, I really don't see Apple releasing support for HD in iMovie, and definately not HDV, FCP and FCE don't even have native support for this yet!

Unless they release FCP 5 and FCE 3 both with HDV support and better HD support, then MAYBE iMovie HD, but I doubt it. Right now there aren't even "consumer" HD cameras, and the prosumer ones, JVC and Sony's that use HDV run around 4 grand, highly unlikely that that support is needed in iMovie, which is for low end consumers.

The JVC HD1 sells for around $3100 new, and the Sony FX1 is about $3700. However, lower priced HDV cameras are just around the corner. DV camcorders used to be very expensive too. iMovie was out back then, in OS 9 days. It would be great to see Apple ahead of the HDV curve as well.

I agree that FCE and FCP need native HDV support. Until then (and who knows, maybe even after that) I'll be using Lumiere HD (www.lumierehd.com).


Slingshot = FCE 3
Crossbow = FCP 5

What would that make iMovie 5? Spitball?

"Sugar" could be some kind of icing (or iCing... sorry) on the Apple cake.

It's nice to see an integrated circuit pun.


While Apple opens the door to the low end very low end market with these sub 500 USD Mac's this bring concerns in regards to viruses down the road unless Apple has some on the toe plan to bite viruses in a couple short days in regards to security.

iMac G3s are all over the place at well under $500, and that hasn't inspired virus writers. Your point is probably about market share though, and in that case I still wouldn't worry about viruses. The whole virus strategy would have to be very different on OS X, and that makes it too much work to cause meaningful and widespread damage.


Interesting I actually priced all the components in the eMac G5 thread and I was dead on. :)

Are you ready to be inundated with PMs / emails / IMs like jimsnowden was? :) (He got the last eMac update dead-on before it was released).


Think Secret is also reporting that Apple will be releasing a $499 1.25ghz headless imac at the expo as well, citing reliable sources. I'm excited about this more than anything else. Marketshare=^^^^

http://thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html
TS puts it perfectly....Apple drops a BOMB.

This is amazing, and completely reliable coming from TS. Hundreds of us have been wanting this from Apple for so many years....well, you only have to wait 2 more weeks.

I'm sure glad we're not all on the same AIRPLANE.

[TreeHugger]

iPhoto needs raw support badly. really badly.
I need iPhoto to be able to handle raw files. really badly :)

[Dave the Great]

HD support in iMovie? Not a chance. iMovie is the consumer application for people who want to edit videos of their kids running around the backyard. Final Cut Express doesn't support HD, so there's no way they'll add such a high-end capability to iMovie at this time. They probably wont for years.

I agree. There is no way iMovie is going to support HDV when FCP does not even support it, yet.

I could see support for H.264, since it will be included in Tiger. But, then if Tiger isn't going to be out for awhile they just might add this feature as an update when Tiger is released.

[maya]

Rod Rod, Say hello to the Xserve mini. :)

I have no problems with the swamp of IM, Email, and so forth. :)


The Xserve has just gotten a younger brother meet Xmini. I like both names. :)

[Rod Rod]

Rod Rod, Say hello to the Xserve mini. :)

I have no problems with the swamp of IM, Email, and so forth. :)


The Xserve has just gotten a younger brother meet Xmini. I like both names. :)

hmm.. maybe iSlice (iSlice o' iLife) or iFragment (we should ask eyefragment about that one).. or LCIV?

The ThinkSecret article says it'll be in the iMac family, so maybe it'll be called iMac Pizza.

maya that's cool, I'll be emailing you for further insights.

As far as an Xserve mini... I predict some GarageBand musicians will put this screenless iMac in a rack, alongside the Asteroid. When they save up enough money they'll connect it to a Final Scratch (http://www.finalscratch.com). :)

[TMay]

I'm curious as to the lack of Gigabit Ethernet. Not a big issue for PC users, but looking ahead, it would make sense to upgrade a future headless G4 with the Moto dual core processor and Gigabit ethernet. With the low power consumption, a G5, Xgrid and a couple of these would create low cost grid computing for folks like animators, Motion, FCP and Logic Pro users. Look for Marathon to have a rack for these if they do in fact arrive.

My spin on the speculated HDV capability of iMovie is that it makes a great deal of sense for Apple to provide basic HDV capabilities as earlyas possible as there are many Indie producers adopting HDV now, with FCP and FCE adopting HDV a little later this next spring.

BTW "Sugar" is just mind candy to mess with us. Personally, there are too many rumors on the plate for Jobs to announce all of these at MWSF.

[MacSlut]

iDVD needs to work with modern DVD burners including third-party drives. I want to replace my 4x drive to a 16x drive that supports 4 hours of video but not have to upgrade to DVD Pro.

It's not going to happen...and if it did, most of us probably wouldn't like the results. Here's why...

There are significant licensing fees for DVD video recorders. Apple is able to give away iLife or sell it so incredibly cheap because they put the licensing fee on the hardware. If the software worked with any drive, they would have to put the licensing fee on the software itself, which is much more expensive, and problematic when it comes time to upgrade.

We're much better off with cheap iLife, given that we can still use 3rd party drives with the various patches/hacks.

[iJon]

iTunes 5? It's seems like they are done with it. I remember a thread that had some really good suggestions for the next version. iMovie seems to good to be true. I hope it has more surprises also. The last update was minor. iPhoto needs the most work. iDVD needs to work with modern DVD burners including third-party drives. I want to replace my 4x drive to a 16x drive that supports 4 hours of video but not have to upgrade to DVD Pro.
http://www.mcetech.com/dvdr16xdt-d.html. $109 isn't bad.

jon

[JFreak]

I agree. There is no way iMovie is going to support HDV when FCP does not even support it, yet.

all they'd need would be a minor upgrade for the fcp/fce.

I could see support for H.264, since it will be included in Tiger. But, then if Tiger isn't going to be out for awhile they just might add this feature as an update when Tiger is released.

if the spec is finished, why wait? it's more an update for quicktime than an update for imovie.

--

now, the ilife'05... i guess the main feature will be 16:9 aspect ratio for imovie and idvd. this is what i and many others have been waiting for.

support for dual-layer media would be nice, but not necessary; the quality of ilife movies is most affected by the quality of DV cameras, so there wouldn't be the need for higher-quality encoding than what it currently does. and two hours is plenty. ilife only understands 2-channel pcm audio (which is stupid as it takes more bandwidth than 2-channel dolby digital), so the space wouldn't be needed for multiple audio tracks, and there are no subtitles either. everything that user would benefit from the dual layer media would be longer playing time, which would be nice, but come on - 2 hours is plenty. if i wanted to make a longer movie, i would also want to do it with the pro app suite ;)

[iJon]

all they'd need would be a minor upgrade for the fcp/fce.

I don't know if would we see an update soon for FCP. Apple likes to upgrade this software at NAB to show off its new features. NAB is in April. They could break from that trend but it just seems more likely April would be our time for that Pro update, possibly versions 5 and 3.

jon

[JFreak]

I don't know if would we see an update soon for FCP. Apple likes to upgrade this software at NAB to show off its new features. NAB is in April. They could break from that trend but it just seems more likely April would be our time for that Pro update, possibly versions 5 and 3.

true. but as they are now in 4.5(HD) so it's a possibility they'd add hd features within a minor update, at least for fcp even if the fce upgrade would take a longer time.

they could, however, wait until tiger release, too. if the ilife pack indeed gets a minor revamp within tiger, why not saving some features for it ;) on the other hand, those who pay for ilife are left behind and as i have understood it it is now apple's policy to sell operating system and ilife independently of each other, so that in mind we could soon see some surprises. but then again, the hd feature could be done within a minor update conveniently just after tiger release, so you'll never know.

it will sure be interesting to see what they release... if they give us 16:9 aspect ratio for ilife, i'm happy. everything else is extra.

[iJon]

those who pay for ilife are left behind and as i have understood it it is now apple's policy to sell operating system and ilife independently of each other
Well things are going to be a little backwards this time around. Before it was Panther came out, then a little bit later they made iLife 04' but never included it with Panther and left the older versions on there.

This time around we will get iLife 05' and then Tiger will be coming out. Now what will Apple do, iLife is a huge selling point for the Mac. I can't see them not including a version of iLife on the machines. Having an older version and having to pay for the latest makes some sense, but not in this case. I can't see them having iLife 05' out for 6 months but putting 04' or something on Tiger. It will be very interesting indeed.


jon

[geeman]

....most presentations can be done with a PDF and fullscreen mode. And this is the way it should be!

Try as I might, I can't work out whether you're serious or joking :confused:

Either

1) your presentation delivery is SO darn awesome that static PDF slides with Acrobat transitions are all you need to "wow" your audience;

2) The topics on which you present are so simplistic that having aids such as transitions/builds to get your points over in a clear, concise and entertaining manner add no value to your presentation;

3) Someone is too polite to tell you that your presentations s*ck.... :eek:


Organisations pay me to make maybe 50-80 presentations a year all over the world, to audiences ranging from 20 to more than 500 people. I like to think that I know what I'm talking about (otherwise I doubt that I'd continue to get bookings ;) ). Presenting is as much about "showbiz" as it is about delivering a message or opinion to a group. Intelligent use of slide builds, transistions and suchlike can, in my experience, significantly enhance any presentation.

Sure, such animations can be overdone. Yes, you can embarrass yourself. But that's hardly the fault of the application. You can say the same thing about using PhotoShop filters or templates for iDVD, Word or PowerPoint.

Don't blame the tools, dude.

[JFreak]

I can't see them not including a version of iLife on the machines.

they will naturally bundle the iLife package to A COMPUTER PUCHASE, but the point is that the package is independent of the operating system, which is not the case with the major rival ;)

(should there be legal issues, apple may have to remove whatever ilife versions there might be in the operating system installer disc, but nothing can prevent apple from giving ilife installer disc for free within every computer purchase. it is only a lot more convenient to install ilife within the same installer than operating system, but - imho - apple would do better to just remove the ilife apps from the operating system altogether. that would be fair.)

[HasanDaddy]

HDV is already here and it will be in the hands of many consumers, very soon

it didn't take long for the Panasonic 24p technology to get into people's hands

if Apple can beat Windows to HDV, with all three of their video editing apps, then it will continue to be giant steps for Apple

if we allow Avid/Adobe to beat us to it on Windows, then that would hurt Apple greatly

Apple ain't gonna let that happen - especially with how well they jumped on the 24p bandwagon

[Rod Rod]

Well things are going to be a little backwards this time around. Before it was Panther came out, then a little bit later they made iLife 04' but never included it with Panther and left the older versions on there.

This time around we will get iLife 05' and then Tiger will be coming out. Now what will Apple do, iLife is a huge selling point for the Mac. I can't see them not including a version of iLife on the machines. Having an older version and having to pay for the latest makes some sense, but not in this case. I can't see them having iLife 05' out for 6 months but putting 04' or something on Tiger. It will be very interesting indeed.


The current iLife suite will be included on the machines, and the machines without the current iLife will either be eligible for an Up To Date program or they'll have the iLife discs dropped into their boxes.

[h'biki]

HD support in iMovie? Not a chance. iMovie is the consumer application for people who want to edit videos of their kids running around the backyard. Final Cut Express doesn't support HD, so there's no way they'll add such a high-end capability to iMovie at this time. They probably wont for years.

There are many flavours of HD. FCPHD supports all of them. Adding supporting for HDV (HD on miniDV) in iMovie [and FCE] would make *alot* of sense. Many professionals are somewhat cynical about HDV as a broadcast format, but consumers and 'prosumers' are already lapping it up. These people will want to make use of their cameras in iMovie before they migrate to FCE or FCP. Proper HDV support is coming in FCP 5, so it makes sense that they'll engineer it into iMovie around the same time.

[iChan]

I'm not big on software... where's the HARDWARE updates? :)

Hmmm... I wonder when those G5 Powerbooks will be coming out... :)

the software is what makes the hardware do what it does...

imagine using windows on a powerbook... not the same is it?

software, software, software. that's where the men are separated from the boys.

[loneAzdgari]

Any speculation on the new applications? And what exactly is Asteroid?

[Zaty]

I'm almost sure, iTunes 4.7.1 will be released on Jan 11. Why? Because the single purpose of iTunes 4.7.1 is to offer support for the new iPods (mini and probably flash). Since iLife 5 might not be available immediately, they have to release a new iTunes version. If iTunes 5 wasn't around the corner, the new version would rather be called iTunes 4.8. iLife 5 might not ship until later in the first quarter.

[centauratlas]

A big question is when iSync will support SyncML for phone synching. Will Apple wait for 10.4 (or longer) or be out before that? I know many were hoping for a Macword intro.

[moiety5]

Anybody have a clue if iLife '05 will have Tiger dependent features? Such as iPhoto with Core Image capabilities, iMovie that leverages Core Video, etc. . .

It seems odd to release iLife before Tiger in that respect, though they could always build the basics in and then awaken them with a x.0.1 version.

[buseman]

HD support in iMovie? Not a chance. iMovie is the consumer application for people who want to edit videos of their kids running around the backyard. Final Cut Express doesn't support HD, so there's no way they'll add such a high-end capability to iMovie at this time. They probably wont for years.

who said FCE wont be updated as well? 16:9 isn't exactly a "pro" feature anymore

[flinch13]

Any speculation on the new applications? And what exactly is Asteroid?

No one knows exactly what the new applications are, but my guess is a new office suite (like Microsoft Office) that works with keynote as one of its applications. Though, I kind out doubt if Apple will actually do this, as Office is a big seller and compatible with windows (blah). Asteroid, on the other hand, is a firewire breakout box for Garage Band. With it, you can input a couple of outside audio sources, including microphones, etc. All of this is sort of exciting, but I'm skeptical as to whether this is all Apple has to offer us in January. The headless mac rumor seems a little unlikely, but that would make me much happier than all of this stuff. It's great to have rumors back! Yay!

[devman]

Try as I might, I can't work out whether you're serious or joking :confused:

Either

1) your presentation delivery is SO darn awesome that static PDF slides with Acrobat transitions are all you need to "wow" your audience;

2) The topics on which you present are so simplistic that having aids such as transitions/builds to get your points over in a clear, concise and entertaining manner add no value to your presentation;

3) Someone is too polite to tell you that your presentations s*ck.... :eek:


Organisations pay me to make maybe 50-80 presentations a year all over the world, to audiences ranging from 20 to more than 500 people. I like to think that I know what I'm talking about (otherwise I doubt that I'd continue to get bookings ;) ). Presenting is as much about "showbiz" as it is about delivering a message or opinion to a group. Intelligent use of slide builds, transistions and suchlike can, in my experience, significantly enhance any presentation.

Sure, such animations can be overdone. Yes, you can embarrass yourself. But that's hardly the fault of the application. You can say the same thing about using PhotoShop filters or templates for iDVD, Word or PowerPoint.

Don't blame the tools, dude.

http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint

[gianues]

iMovie -> Final Cut Pro
iDvd -> DVD Studio Pro
GarageBand -> Logic Pro
iPhoto -> (Sugar = Photo Studio Pro?)

[chameeeleon]

I was excited in hopes of iTunes 5, but worried that (like last year's keynote) it wouldn't be updated and Apple would hold off until the anniversary of the Music Store in April. *Sigh* And for those of you who say iTunes is perfect - take a look at this thread. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=95100&highlight=app+improvement)
The changes to the other apps sound alright, although AUDIO COMMENTARIES and SUBTITLES in iDVD and album heirarchy in iPhoto would be my "Sugar".
And regarding the new apps, "Crossbow" and "Slingshot" sounds pretty violent to me, sort of like Apple's ready to take someone out. Microsoft and Office hopefully.

[chameeeleon]

iMovie -> Final Cut Pro
iDvd -> DVD Studio Pro
GarageBand -> Logic Pro
iPhoto -> (Sugar = Photo Studio Pro?)

I doubt it, it would tread on Adobe's heels, and such an app would likely be revealed at NAB (?), not Macworld.

[swissmann]

I love iLife and use it daily. I am mostly interested in iDVD updates and assume (hope) that because iMovie will support 16:9 and HD that iDVD must as well now. That would be a nice addition and a good prepartion for the new blue laser discs coming down the road. I'm excited about the tranisition to HD.

[tjwett]

I wouldn't be surprised if they unveiled some sort of Photoshop killer. I don't think Apple is too concerned with stepping on Adobe's toes any more, seeing as Adobe kind of shafted them a few years ago and the relationship has maybe soured since. Adobe had the market kind of cornered with Premier, then Apple stomped it out with FCP. Same goes for AfterEffects. Not that AE is dead (yet) but Motion certainly crushes it from many angles.
The logical next step is image editing, which I think Apple is totally capable of doing well. This Core Image stuff seems powerful and this would be the obvious way to use it. The only thing I don't see Apple doing is any sort of a vector drawing or page layout app. Not that Quark or InDesign or Illustrator are that great, they could all use some modernizing but I just don't see Apple going there for some reason. Probably because that stuff is kind of boring in comparison and Apple is all about dazzle.

[faintedlife]

Hopefully the new iPhoto will have more powerful editing controls (especially for those without Photoshop). If they did, then it'd kill off any other photo management/editing apps aside from the high-end versions.

[Waluigi]

iDVD 5 must be able to sync DV recorded in 12-bit audio! Thats all I'm asking for.

[SWC]

Cool! I decided to place my order because I was confident a new iMac won't show up at MWSF...in my haste I forgot about a good ole' iLife update! :o

Based on what I have seen in the past. Free update only happen if you buy the mac after they make the anouncement. So even if you bought it the day before they anounce it your out of luck. Unless this policy changes I wouldn't count on it being free.

[SWC]

Sorry, I really don't see Apple releasing support for HD in iMovie, and definately not HDV, FCP and FCE don't even have native support for this yet!

Unless they release FCP 5 and FCE 3 both with HDV support and better HD support, then MAYBE iMovie HD, but I doubt it. Right now there aren't even "consumer" HD cameras, and the prosumer ones, JVC and Sony's that use HDV run around 4 grand, highly unlikely that that support is needed in iMovie, which is for low end consumers.

Sony is $3,300~ and jvc is $2,200~. For many mac users this is affordable as you pretty much have to be wealthy to own a mac. So iMovie support for hd isn't that absurd. I agree it would be stupid to add it to iMovie before they beef up support in FCP but they've done similar. Look at the iBook and Powerbook, not much of a difference in the product lines anymore to justify a substantial price increase for a metal case vs. a plastic one.

[themacman]

I don't know. IMO I think Apple should just drop the whole appleworks line. Again IMO I think MS Office is good and everyone wants their office suite to be MS-related. Apple will be hard pressed to bring people away from Office, no matter how good the new appleworks might be.
what does IMO mean?

[From the moderator (so we don't get a bunch of replies as people read the thread): IMO=In My Opinion]

[themacman]

Can they really have that much up their sleeve? I don't think there's a lot Apple can do to make iTunes better, but maybe I'm mistaken.
-Chase
ITMS- itunes Movie store, watch movies on your mac at great prices.

[zelmo]

what does IMO mean?

In My Opinion. Sometimes a modest individual might even throw down an "IMHO." :)

[LethalWolfe]

I would be very surprised if iMovie got HDV support (HD is completely out fo the question, and 16:9 doesn't not mean HD). The format has been around for nearly 2 years and done squat. JVC's camera priced itself out of the consumer market and didn't deliver near enough quality for the pro market. Sony's offerings seem to be very cool and might be the ones to actually get the format off the ground, but it's to early to tell how well they will perform, and it will be years before HDV gets into the $1000 and sub-$1000 range (assuming the format doesn't die). The long of the short of it is, anyone who has the funds to buy an HDV camera but decides to edit on iMovie needs to have their head examined.


Lethal

[Punkwaffle]

I remember reading not too long ago that Apple might be doing a new personal finance management app.
I for one would love this! If they could incorporate an envelope system (like Budget) it would be sweet- like SUGAR!!!

[molcas&e'sdad]

I remember reading not too long ago that Apple might be doing a new personal finance management app.
I for one would love this! If they could incorporate an envelope system (like Budget) it would be sweet- like SUGAR!!!


What a great idea Punkwaffle. I, for one, would welcome such an application given my hatred for quicken ...

[virus1]

AppleWorks is dead. Don't you understand that Apple has a deal with MS to abandon AppleWorks for continued development of MS Office for the Mac?

What apple (and you) is not seeing is that if they put some work into it, they could take down MSO. Then MS would stop trying, giving apple the full advantage. But i still don't see apple doing it, so i think that it is gone. Just like hypercard. Anyone remember hypercard? it didn't even carry over to os x.

the market for an all in one office app is not dead. my sister uses appleworks for everything.

[Earendil]

What apple (and you) is not seeing is that if they put some work into it, they could take down MSO. Then MS would stop trying, giving apple the full advantage. But i still don't see apple doing it, so i think that it is gone. Just like hypercard. Anyone remember hypercard? it didn't even carry over to os x.

the market for an all in one office app is not dead. my sister uses appleworks for everything.

Quite dedicated Mac Users don't want to use Microsoft office apps, and think they suck on some levels, what people aren't seeing is that they are a way to convince people to switch. I'm in the middle of getting my Boss to get an Apple Powerbook. She is the owner of a small business that doesn't have IT, She is her own IT, and isn't great at it. When I tell her that "Yes, all the Microsoft Apps are on Apple computers, here, look" and show her something that is familiar to her, it makes her more willing to switch.

Telling switchers that "yes, there is something better than Word" is going convince people about as fast as "Yes, there is something better than XP".

And on that note, if Apple made a Mac program to compete, wouldn't they also have to make a Windows version? How would you open files from your home Mac on your work PC?

Tyler

[moiety5]

And on that note, if Apple made a Mac program to compete, wouldn't they also have to make a Windows version? How would you open files from your home Mac on your work PC?

Tyler

AppleWorks is already made for Windows. But has been met with little success. With translators out there like MacLink etc. . . a Windows version wouldn't be necessary but would make another TERRIFIC trojan horse for Apple to seed to Windows users. If they made it free and open source and had terrific Office translation. . . well, it might just be enough to take down the Redmond Goliath.

But does anyone know anything about iLife '05 and Tiger only features?? (i.e. Core Image/Core Video dependent iPhoto/iMovie)

[mox358]

It seems like it this is going to be one of the best Macworld's I can remember. I know Steve can't possibly announce ALL of these rumored things, but its quite a pool to draw from. Am I the only one who thinks the headless iMac would be *great* for the platform in general, but don't really care about it? Its not a system I would consider buying, therefore I'm WAY more interested in the iLife update, and the unknown apps (hopefully Document and Spreadsheet *crosses fingers). I love the idea of the headless iMac, and I think its the right time for apple to implement such a plan. But if you're already a Mac owner (and lets face it, this iMac isn't being targeted at anyone on this board, we crave more power :-) )the other apple announcements seem so much more interesting. Just throwing in my 2 cents.

[killmoms]

I wouldn't be surprised if they unveiled some sort of Photoshop killer. I don't think Apple is too concerned with stepping on Adobe's toes any more, seeing as Adobe kind of shafted them a few years ago and the relationship has maybe soured since. Adobe had the market kind of cornered with Premier, then Apple stomped it out with FCP. Same goes for AfterEffects. Not that AE is dead (yet) but Motion certainly crushes it from many angles.
The logical next step is image editing, which I think Apple is totally capable of doing well. This Core Image stuff seems powerful and this would be the obvious way to use it. The only thing I don't see Apple doing is any sort of a vector drawing or page layout app. Not that Quark or InDesign or Illustrator are that great, they could all use some modernizing but I just don't see Apple going there for some reason. Probably because that stuff is kind of boring in comparison and Apple is all about dazzle.
Hah, you only wish Motion could kill AE. In addition to having no 3D compositing abilities, Motion is pretty much a beta for sale on store shelves. The interface is far too complicated for the program, and really needs a complete redesign. It's unstable as all get out. In addition, the ability to access key-framing is cumbersome and while Behaviors are nice, they lack the control AE provides. For certain tasks, Motion is great, but it's nowhere near an After Effects killer.

Nor should it be, because regardless of what your opinion is, Apple NEEDS Adobe, and in fact Adobe needs Apple too. Did you know that over a quarter of Adobe's software sales are on the Mac platform? Not 2% like the market share, but 25%. Adobe's products are the most pirated software on the Windows platform—that problem is far smaller on the Mac side of the fence. Not to mention that Apple has been touting the superior performance of Photoshop on their boxes for years, accurate in all situations or not.

It's far more likely that Adobe will use Core Image in their next major version of Photoshop on the Mac. Why not? It'll be like dual-processor optimizations—not everyone has dualies, but those that do will appreciate the boost. People will still buy it for both platforms, Apple will get to brag that Photoshop is now WAY faster on the Mac than ANY PC. It might convince some PC-based design houses to switch. Either way it's more copies sold for Adobe, and it's code they didn't have to write themselves, just an API that they can implement.

[BWhaler]

It seems like it this is going to be one of the best Macworld's I can remember. I know Steve can't possibly announce ALL of these rumored things, but its quite a pool to draw from. Am I the only one who thinks the headless iMac would be *great* for the platform in general, but don't really care about it? Its not a system I would consider buying, therefore I'm WAY more interested in the iLife update, and the unknown apps (hopefully Document and Spreadsheet *crosses fingers). I love the idea of the headless iMac, and I think its the right time for apple to implement such a plan. But if you're already a Mac owner (and lets face it, this iMac isn't being targeted at anyone on this board, we crave more power :-) )the other apple announcements seem so much more interesting. Just throwing in my 2 cents.

I agree 100% with you.

I highly doubt I will ever buy one of these Macs, but I am really glad Apple is offering them. Apple needs to stop the marketshare slide and needs a true, low risk, entry Mac.

Plus, the Apple brand impression in the average consumer's mind has moved enough from being about a niche odd computer company to a cool consumer product company. In addition, the pain level with Windows is getting very high for PC users.

The time is right for a 500 dollar machine. More people will be willing to take the jump because of the iPod experience and Microsoft's lack of quality.

[JFreak]

Quite dedicated Mac Users don't want to use Microsoft office apps, and think they suck on some levels

i have to disagree. microsoft excel for example is a great piece of software, and if i'm not mistaken it's a mac-first app. it is very true that microsoft's operating system is a piece of junk, but they do have one good app for sale, and that's excel. even if apple did a competitive product, i'd most probably continue using microsoft's. and i'm very dedicated mac user :D

[aswitcher]

16:9 will make me very happy.

So will improvements to exporting just a segment of a video from iMovie with ease and for iDVD to support drag and drop chapter and page shifts for DVD menu designing.

[JFreak]

improvements to exporting just a segment of a video from iMovie with ease

currently you can export single/selected clips, isn't that easy enough?

[HasanDaddy]

I just don't think that Crossbow and Slingshot are MS killers

After all, Apple patched up its relationship with Microsoft, and M$ reciprocated by bringing out Office 2004, which is clearly, a pretty great office suite

however ---- I would not be surprised at all if Apple is going after Adobe

Knocking out PhotoShop would a real task ---- but as others have mentioned, Apple wouldn't be souping up Tiger with so many graphics, if it wasn't

in addition ---- one way to get Windoze users back onto Apple would be to release programs that are ONLY available on Apple (FCP, Motion, etc)

Who knows..... an Apple Photoshop could be worth switching, for many

[SiliconAddict]

More reasons why Windows sucks.......................forever Mac!


Every OS sucks.....................................................................forever pad of paper!

[SiliconAddict]

I don't know. IMO I think Apple should just drop the whole appleworks line. Again IMO I think MS Office is good and everyone wants their office suite to be MS-related. Apple will be hard pressed to bring people away from Office, no matter how good the new appleworks might be.

From the business world side of things I agree with you but for the average consumer who simply wants a word processor MS Word is WAY overkill. Apple needs to tread softly when dealing with office suits. The simple fact is that many businesses will not touch a Mac if it isn’t compatible with the most common productivity suite in the world. If Apple makes Works too good they run the risk of MS pulling another stunt like they did with IE at which time Apple’s credibility in the enterprise market will consist of exactly jack squat.

[SiliconAddict]

Can they really have that much up their sleeve? I don't think there's a lot Apple can do to make iTunes better, but maybe I'm mistaken.
-Chase


VERY.

[Doctor Q]

I agree with JFreak about Excel. It's a great product, which nobody is going to steal much marketshare from anytime soon. And I don't expect a Photoshop-like product from Apple. In my view, Apple prefers the Star Trek method -- going where no company has gone before, i.e., new niches, with a focus on multimedia.

But I've been surprised before, such as when Apple bested Acrobat Reader with the much-faster Preview and when they announced Keynote. Steve Jobs said that Keynote was originally built just for him, so maybe they didn't set out to build a "Powerpoint killer" (which it is not), but they did release it, so there it is -- a productivity application that shares a market with 500-pound gorilla Powerpoint.

[MCCFR]

I just don't think that Crossbow and Slingshot are MS killers

After all, Apple patched up its relationship with Microsoft, and M$ reciprocated by bringing out Office 2004, which is clearly, a pretty great office suite

however ---- I would not be surprised at all if Apple is going after Adobe<-snip->

Well, if we're not being spoofed, the codenames are quite interesting.

"Slingshot" may well be derived from the story of David and Goliath - Apple clearly believes itself to be David, so who the heck is Goliath? ;) Hmmm…

"Crossbow" is also interesting from a historical perspective. Harold Godwin was killed during the Battle Of Hastings in 1066 by inconveniently getting in the way of a crossbow bolt fired by the Norman soldiers of William The Conqueror. But if Apple is William I, then who is Harold?

For those who are not interested in English history, it is worth noting that one of the pretexts for the Norman conquest was that William claimed that Harold had, during an earlier failed military adventure, sworn future allegiance to William. Additionally, William - despite possibly being illegitimate - argued that his claim to the English throne (resulting from the marriage of Emma of Normandy to King Canute II) superceded Harold's claim which was simply the result of being named as deathbed successor by Edward the Confessor.

My point here is that someone's dark sense of humour in Cupertino associates Crossbow with some form of "betrayal". Who can this be other than Adobe - the company whose very existence is owed to Apple (through the incorporation of Postscript into early the Laserwriter, as well as investment)? The "betrayal" is easy enough to identify - namely the partial desertion of Adobe to the Wintel camp during the G4 dog days, especially the Dell performance advertisement and the simple fact that many Adobe products simply don't exist in OS X versions.

So what would a Crossbow be in the context of Adobe?

Although it could be argued that Adobe actually makes more money from Acrobat than it does from Photoshop, my personal bet is a Photoshop killer capable of being used as a rotoscoping tool in the context of the Production Suite.

If the tool integrated both bitmap and lineart functionality, such a tool would be a natural addition to Motion (precision creation of backgrounds, behaviours etc.), FCP (rotoscoping) and DVD SP (menus). Add in LiveType, 64-bitness with Tiger compatibility, as well as Automator-savvy batch processing and you have something that would make Adobe bristle.

Just a thought, add your own pinch of salt…

[TednDi]

whatever the three apps are in my opinion, they are apps that will show off the abilities Core Image and Tiger. No other Os has those abilities and if at the release of Tiger there are no apps that can take advantage of the speed and power of the Os then all reviews will end with " great Os but wait till there are some apps that take advantage of it's power"

Apple is just hedging its bets on the fact that there will be ready to go apps for tiger.

iphoto with more photoshop features - yes

photoshop killer -perhaps, if it is far cheaper than the price of photoshop and kicks butt over it. Huge amount of institutionalization to overcome however.

Appleworks - yea for those folks who want simplicity in the home office. Not the enterprise market but the folks who want to write a letter now and again.
ilife for home productivity.


if this little app box has the capacity to scale qt and output to big screens wow just wait. With studios suing the bit torrent guys it is napster/itunes launch all over again.. i tunes movie store.... here we go

[mdriftmeyer]

Unless Adobe does an about face towards Cocoa and specifically Objective-C they won't be running out to adopt Core Imaging and Core Data.

Apple employs the creators of TIFFany. If they wanted to created a Photoshop killer they could.

[silvergunuk]

£10 says garageband is renamed ProBand.

[mox358]

I hope Apple isn't trying to build a Photoshop killer... it is a HORRIBLE idea.

On top of trying to convert switchers to Mac, especially pro users in graphic design, web design fields, you want to convert them to a brand new pro-level graphics apps too? I know people who think of Photoshop as a brand name. They don't care if its mac or windows, but they know photoshop. Knowing they can switch to Mac, get the benefits of OSX and apple's cool OSX only software and still use the programs they know is a big boon. To compleatly piss off Adobe, or worse piss them off and have this photoshop-killer be a massive failure, would be a nuclear bomb going off in the middle of the mac world.

Photoshop is such a massive beast, with tons of options, and tons of options for those options, that apple would have to have a developer effort near the size of their Tiger team to accomplish the software part, not to mention the mindshare. Adobe's keyboard shortcuts are hard-wired into designers heads, as is the workflow of the program, and not to mention the interface.

So my question is why is apple wasting time developing this to basically build a clone with possibly a few new features?

Its the exact opposite of the MS Office situtaion - Ms has the marketshare, the mindshare, and this crappy suite which has tons of room for improvement (IMO). Adobe has the marketshare, mindshare, and a very nice program that suits the needs of most of its users. When you figure in the Elements line, apple would have to build a scaled down version of their photo-shop killer to fill in that void, and now you just have a mess. Just my opinion, but I would rather see Apple target their efforts in areas where there is a visible need for improvement or new areas not yet explored.

[BWhaler]

i have to disagree. microsoft excel for example is a great piece of software, and if i'm not mistaken it's a mac-first app. it is very true that microsoft's operating system is a piece of junk, but they do have one good app for sale, and that's excel. even if apple did a competitive product, i'd most probably continue using microsoft's. and i'm very dedicated mac user :D

I agree JFreak. While the UI could be cleaned up a little bit, and some advanced features could be made more accessible, Excel is a fantastic product.

In fact, it is the only MS app I can think of which is really good quality.

Word is a train wreck, however. I really hope Apple releases a pro quality word processor. No need to create an entire suite, because as others have pointed out, Apple needs MS Office on the platform, and to their credit, MS did a good job on the 2004 upgrade of Office. Apple can sell Keynote, Filemaker, and the Pro Word Processor as individual products. It would only inspire MS to put a lot of focus on Word/Office for the Mac, as we saw the latest ppt update.

But an Excel-Filemaker-Keynote 2.0-Apple Pro Word Processor combination would be fantastic.

[Platform]

Will all of these new apps do so that to have a machine that does Tiger and the new comming apps nicley, it has to be a G5 with 512Mb minimum of ram to go smoothly?? :eek:

[houttbe]

Dominic Giampaolo, known as the developer of the BE File System and now working for Apple (presumably on the file system and on Spotlight) had a keen interest in medieval weaponry (http://www.bedope.com/stories/0030.html). "Slingshot" and "Crossbow" ... next "Trebuchet"?

Well, if we're not being spoofed, the codenames are quite interesting.

"Slingshot" may well be derived from the story of David and Goliath - Apple clearly believes itself to be David, so who the heck is Goliath? ;) Hmmm…

"Crossbow" is also interesting from a historical perspective. Harold Godwin was killed during the Battle Of Hastings in 1066 by inconveniently getting in the way of a crossbow bolt fired by the Norman soldiers of William The Conqueror. But if Apple is William I, then who is Harold?

For those who are not interested in English history, it is worth noting that one of the pretexts for the Norman conquest was that William claimed that Harold had, during an earlier failed military adventure, sworn future allegiance to William. Additionally, William - despite possibly being illegitimate - argued that his claim to the English throne (resulting from the marriage of Emma of Normandy to King Canute II) superceded Harold's claim which was simply the result of being named as deathbed successor by Edward the Confessor.

My point here is that someone's dark sense of humour in Cupertino associates Crossbow with some form of "betrayal". Who can this be other than Adobe - the company whose very existence is owed to Apple (through the incorporation of Postscript into early the Laserwriter, as well as investment)? The "betrayal" is easy enough to identify - namely the partial desertion of Adobe to the Wintel camp during the G4 dog days, especially the Dell performance advertisement and the simple fact that many Adobe products simply don't exist in OS X versions.

So what would a Crossbow be in the context of Adobe?

Although it could be argued that Adobe actually makes more money from Acrobat than it does from Photoshop, my personal bet is a Photoshop killer capable of being used as a rotoscoping tool in the context of the Production Suite.

If the tool integrated both bitmap and lineart functionality, such a tool would be a natural addition to Motion (precision creation of backgrounds, behaviours etc.), FCP (rotoscoping) and DVD SP (menus). Add in LiveType, 64-bitness with Tiger compatibility, as well as Automator-savvy batch processing and you have something that would make Adobe bristle.

Just a thought, add your own pinch of salt…

[aswitcher]

currently you can export single/selected clips, isn't that easy enough?

Well I have found it clumsy and time consuming to suck in one tape with several different short vids and to then produce them to DVD. I would like to be able to simply select clips and create a new project for just them or some such. Can you do this now? (Not in the books I am referencing... :()

[Gee]

"Crossbow" is also interesting from a historical perspective. Harold Godwin was killed during the Battle Of Hastings in 1066 by inconveniently getting in the way of a crossbow bolt fired by the Norman soldiers of William The Conqueror. But if Apple is William I, then who is Harold?

Not wanting to be pedantic or anything, but Harold was shot with a longbow. Crossbows didn't appear in Europe until about two hundred years later :)

Interesting theory though.

[killmoms]

Dominic Giampaolo, known as the developer of the BE File System and now working for Apple (presumably on the file system and on Spotlight) had a keen interest in medieval weaponry (http://www.bedope.com/stories/0030.html). "Slingshot" and "Crossbow" ... next "Trebuchet"?
Oh man... I miss BeDope so much. That link just took me right back.

BeOS fo' life! It's why I'm a Mac user—when BeOS folded OS X was the next best thing.

[MCCFR]

Not wanting to be pedantic or anything, but Harold was shot with a longbow. Crossbows didn't appear in Europe until about two hundred years later :)

Interesting theory though.

Hmmm…

Not wishing to be truly pedantic, but utterly incorrect. Early versions of crossbow technology were in use from Roman times (as siege machines) and were "banned" by the Church from being used by Christians against Christians, although their usage was permitted against non-believers in conflicts such as the Crusades. That said, the ban was regularly ignored in conflicts like the Norman conquests because you could simply argue that - as a king through divine succession - you had the right to use whatever weapons you liked against a usurper.

The death of the crossbow was bought about by realisation that the longbow could do more damage simply because you didn't need to screw around during the whole reload process. This realisation came about during successive wars between the Norman English and the French, where the French would get an arse-kicking from English longbowmen on a regular basis.

Do a Google on "Crossbow History", if you don't believe me.

[macaudiodj]

Any one think Tiger is coming soon!

[h0rriddr3am]

I don't know why you guys don't get it now that Mac releases don't stick with Mac Expos.. and they do it for a reason because people will only buy around then and apple will lose sales. So they spread around their releases so they are not all in expos.

[~Shard~]

Any one think Tiger is coming soon!

Depends how you define soon. Jobs said Tiger would be released in the first half of 2005. Therefore, he has until June 30 to release it. I could see some more announcements regarding Tiger @ MWSF, however I don't think we will see a release date for a few more months.

[wdlove]

Any one think Tiger is coming soon!

It depends on your definition of soon. It won't be available at MWSF. Will be looking forward to its release laster in the first half of 2005.

[~Shard~]

It depends on your definition of soon. It won't be available at MWSF. Will be looking forward to its release laster in the first half of 2005.

Think I beat you to it wdlove - almost word for word, nonetheless!

No worries, as they say, great minds think a like... :cool:

[titaniumducky]

HD support in iMovie? Not a chance. iMovie is the consumer application for people who want to edit videos of their kids running around the backyard. Final Cut Express doesn't support HD, so there's no way they'll add such a high-end capability to iMovie at this time. They probably wont for years.

Umm... they could update FCE at the same time.

[FreeState]

Apple will launch its new iWork '05 productivity suite at Macworld Expo, Think Secret has learned. The software, code-named Sugar (as alluded to in our previous Expo report), will include Keynote 2 as well as a new application, Pages


http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0412expo3.html

[chameeeleon]

But if that's Sugar, and Hermann's just a jampack... that still leaves Crossbow and Slingshot. :eek: There's just starting to be too much stuff for Steve to show all in one keynote. Although it'd make up nicely for last year's rather held back release-wise keynote.

[FreeState]

But if that's Sugar, and Hermann's just a jampack... that still leaves Crossbow and Slingshot. :eek: There's just starting to be too much stuff for Steve to show all in one keynote. Although it'd make up nicely for last year's rather held back release-wise keynote.

My guess would be that:

Crossbow = spreadsheet (tied into iWork 05)

and

Slingshot = Possible code word for iTunes 5.0 or a revamp to some other add on or application that is getting an update (but not a new application).

But then again I am always wrong- Im still wanting a Apple Multimedia Center that is a touch screen to control all your media via airport...

[AliensAreFuzzy]

I wouldn't be surprised if they unveiled some sort of Photoshop killer. I don't think Apple is too concerned with stepping on Adobe's toes any more, seeing as Adobe kind of shafted them a few years ago and the relationship has maybe soured since. Adobe had the market kind of cornered with Premier, then Apple stomped it out with FCP. Same goes for AfterEffects. Not that AE is dead (yet) but Motion certainly crushes it from many angles.
The logical next step is image editing, which I think Apple is totally capable of doing well. This Core Image stuff seems powerful and this would be the obvious way to use it. The only thing I don't see Apple doing is any sort of a vector drawing or page layout app. Not that Quark or InDesign or Illustrator are that great, they could all use some modernizing but I just don't see Apple going there for some reason. Probably because that stuff is kind of boring in comparison and Apple is all about dazzle.

Remember when they were first showing off Tiger at WWDC last year? Steve specifically said that he hoped Adobe would utilize CoreImage features in Photoshop as to kick the crap out of the windows version.

[Doctor Q]

The application code-named Sugar is now believed to be iWork '05 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041231175830.shtml). Think Secret also reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0412expo3.html) that Jam Pack 4: Symphony Orchestra will accompany (and require) GarageBand 2, providing 2000 new loops and 30 new instruments.

[maveness]

As codewords, these BOTH suggest "action at a distance." I therefore believe that they both will have something to do with streaming media wirelessly, or otherwise controlling hardware remotely. Slingshot is lower-tech than a crossbow: consumer and pro versions?

[MCCFR]

The relevance of code names should not be overlooked: they're very often teasers designed to make people like us theorise like demented crossword fans.

A case in point is that Herrmann is now believed to be a Jam Pack 4: Symphony Orchestra. Here, the codename is a reference to Bernard Herrmann, the composer/conductor of some seminal film soundtracks including Vertigo, Psycho and Taxi Driver (his last work).

I can understand the "action at a distance" concept referred to by Maveness, but the naming is almost too deliberate to be a coincidence. You could have called them Harpoon or Boomerang, Musket or, indeed, Longbow (which was as influential a weapon - especially if you were English).

Instead, the choice of Slingshot and Crossbow as codenames seems like the work of a conscious intelligence that wants to be able to refer to their (corporate) work as some form of rallying call for the troops. In short, it is all too redolent of Jobs' "siege mentality" management as exemplified by the large skull & crossbones flag that was hung on the wall of the original Macintosh development team.

[asphalt-proof]

I would really like to see a an update on iPhoto. Even with 768 of ram this program bogs down bigtime when I am keywording photos or scrolling throught the library. I would like to see a bit more features added but something photoshop-like would probably be overwhelming to the average mom and pop. Can't wait till the Show.
Pete

[doogle]

As codewords, these BOTH suggest "action at a distance." I therefore believe that they both will have something to do with streaming media wirelessly, or otherwise controlling hardware remotely. Slingshot is lower-tech than a crossbow: consumer and pro versions?

sheesh! No insult intended, but you have got to be kidding!

[Mike Teezie]

iLife '05 is exciting to me, and will be a must have.

That said, I don't understand why Apple would go after MS's Office. One of my main points I make to potential switchers, is that Office is available for OS X.

Who knows, we'll all just have to wait and see what they came up with.

[DaveClarkOne]

If Apple goes after Office 2004, then the bridge between the Apple platform and PC world will sink and likewise any ambitions of Apple to add switchers. This is a TERRIBLE idea.

I will drop the Mac like its hot if Apple weakens this cross-platform compatibility. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring the need for Apple to woo PC users of Office. Apple could PAY me to try a new spreadsheet and word app and I wouldn't use it. Corel tried to do the same thing with its suite of apps targeting PC users and it flopped. Apple should concede the fact that Office is TOO entrenched. If MS sees Apple undermining its Office suite, MS won't continue to develop it --and this is critical to lure PC'ers to Apple's superior hardware.

[aussie_geek]

I'm not big on software... where's the HARDWARE updates? :)

Hmmm... I wonder when those G5 Powerbooks will be coming out... :)

The only big hardware update will be the iMac without a monitor and maybe a PowerMac update. No PowerBook G5's yet.

I reakon all of this new software will be 64 bit optimised to run on Tiger (will also run on 32 bit as well). This is logical as when the Tiger OS comes out we will have something to take advantage of it straight after install. It will be a good way of demonstrating how fast Tiger will be considering that we would have been using the apps for a few months on Panther.

aussie_geek

[Platform]

The only big hardware update will be the iMac without a monitor and maybe a PowerMac update. No PowerBook G5's yet.

I reakon all of this new software will be 64 bit optimised to run on Tiger (will also run on 32 bit as well). This is logical as when the Tiger OS comes out we will have something to take advantage of it straight after install. It will be a good way of demonstrating how fast Tiger will be considering that we would have been using the apps for a few months on Panther.

aussie_geek

Since tiger is now soon comming out, will it be a bad idea to buy anything else then a G5 because there is now going and are G5 optimized apps and now OS's so only worth going for a G5 or :confused:

[CubaTBird]

i seriously see myself buying ilife 05' when it comes out... thing is... i guess we will all have to wait for ical and address book updates as it seems they are part of the OS and not iLife... ne way, im really lookin to see what iPhoto 5 has to offer as I use iPhoto quite a bit.. garageband 2 looks interesting too b/c of the new instruments and etc..

[mox358]

I'm buying iLife 05 ASAP also. If it included iTunes 5, I'd be all over it. But since iTunes will be a free upgrade (and we KNOW we'll get it eventually) I'm not too upset :) The rest of the suite looks pretty nice... and I expect there will be updates to all these apps after Tigers release (assuming it will be available right away and not after Tiger is available) to enable speed improvements and other things based on 10.4's new underpinnings.

[Sir_Giggles]

I'm eagerly waiting for iDVD to support widescreen. I cant imagine what improvements they can make to iTunes apart from making it bloatware. iPhoto looks good as is, but needs the ability to export web-based galleries that dont rely on having a .mac account. Currently I use Adobe Photoshop for that.

[~Shard~]

iPhoto also needs to be able to rename the file when I rename the title. I hate naming all my photos in iPhoto and then go to upload them, e-mail them, etc. and find they still have their original useless filename. It would be nice not to have to export photos from iPhoto using the title, etc. and have the filenames change when I change the titles...

[Mertzen]

I really have my doubts about iMovie HD .. FC Express HD I see happen .. but I don't see mom and pops get a +$2K camcorder and edit the footage on their iBook G4 ..

A tad far fetched not ..

[sorryiwasdreami]

iPhoto needs the most work.

Agreed. What iPhoto really needs is support for cataloging video clips, kind of the way that Google's Picasa does.

[Rod Rod]

I really have my doubts about iMovie HD .. FC Express HD I see happen .. but I don't see mom and pops get a +$2K camcorder and edit the footage on their iBook G4 ..

A tad far fetched not ..

iMovie has been around a long time, since OS 9 days. Back then many consumer camcorders cost ~$2K, and people were spending that much to load footage onto their fruit-colored iBooks and iMacs (both G3s).

The idea of HDV support in iMovie is not very far fetched at all. Rather, it would be consistent with what happened in the past with DV support.

It shouldn't be too long before lower-priced HDV camcorders (or something better than HDV but with HD resolution) hit the market.

The HDV workflow in iMovie will likely be either very slow (if the Lumiere HD method is any indication) but automated, or fast but very limited (cuts only, like the bundled editing application that ships with the JVC HD1 and HD10).

[mdriftmeyer]

Not if you are smart. The link is XML. Microsoft's format for its next Office is all XML based.

Apple's will support OASIS's XML standards format would be my guess.

If Apple goes after Office 2004, then the bridge between the Apple platform and PC world will sink and likewise any ambitions of Apple to add switchers. This is a TERRIBLE idea.

I will drop the Mac like its hot if Apple weakens this cross-platform compatibility. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring the need for Apple to woo PC users of Office. Apple could PAY me to try a new spreadsheet and word app and I wouldn't use it. Corel tried to do the same thing with its suite of apps targeting PC users and it flopped. Apple should concede the fact that Office is TOO entrenched. If MS sees Apple undermining its Office suite, MS won't continue to develop it --and this is critical to lure PC'ers to Apple's superior hardware.

[Platform]

Any one think Tiger is coming soon!

Around the end of March would be my guess :rolleyes:

[iAtom]

If Apple goes after Office 2004, then the bridge between the Apple platform and PC world will sink and likewise any ambitions of Apple to add switchers. This is a TERRIBLE idea.

I will drop the Mac like its hot if Apple weakens this cross-platform compatibility. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring the need for Apple to woo PC users of Office. Apple could PAY me to try a new spreadsheet and word app and I wouldn't use it. Corel tried to do the same thing with its suite of apps targeting PC users and it flopped. Apple should concede the fact that Office is TOO entrenched. If MS sees Apple undermining its Office suite, MS won't continue to develop it --and this is critical to lure PC'ers to Apple's superior hardware.

Many of you are forgeting the fact that MS Office Costs $300. I am a student and all I really need to do is make simple documents and spreadsheets. You could argue that there are other options but the average user wants to buy a computer that comes with a work suite preloaded. I think they are already making a mistake by not having one preloaded on the pro line of Macs, escencially expecting people to buy MS Office. It would be a bigger mistake to completely get rid of Appleworks. If they made a new work suite, it would not try to be a Office killer, it would simply be a cheaper option for people who don't need all of the features of Office.

[weldon]

Many of you are forgeting the fact that MS Office Costs $300. I am a student and all I really need to do is make simple documents and spreadsheets.
Maybe you are forgetting that the Student version of Office only costs $129. I don't think Apple is going to make many inroads in this market unless something happens on the Windows side first (OpenOffice takes off, etc.).

[iAtom]

Maybe you are forgetting that the Student version of Office only costs $129. I don't think Apple is going to make many inroads in this market unless something happens on the Windows side first (OpenOffice takes off, etc.).

I am pretty sure there is still a very good market for a cheap work suite, maybe $50 or less. $129 is still a lot of money to pay for a word processor and spreadsheet program (These are the only 2 programs I would use and I would only use the basic features of them, and I know that a lot of people are the same way). Just because there are so many features it doesn't mean everyone wants them. This is why Apple makes pro apps like Final Cut Pro and then they make cheaper versions (iMovie) for people who don't need all the features. For me the current Appleworks is fine but I would be happy if they updated it.

[iFaulder]

I would think that Keynote 2 or a stripped down version would be included in iWorks.

[bennetsaysargh]

I would think that Keynote 2 or a stripped down version would be included in iWorks.

i think that having a stripped down version of keynote would be odd because it would basically be an older version of it. no?

[bennyek]

iMovie -> Final Cut Pro
iDvd -> DVD Studio Pro
GarageBand -> Logic Pro
iPhoto -> (Sugar = Photo Studio Pro?)


Best idea I have seen on here all day. I hope this is true. A pro photo app to help us organize our HUGE raw image files and provide a few more advanced features.

[mgehman]

I really like the transitions, but what would make the deal is a way for the date on the title page to change to the current date... automatically. Since I repeat the same lecture over an over. It is a pain in the arse to have to do it every-time. Let's just hope.
Oh, the transitions are cool though. I guess we'll see next week. :D

[bennetsaysargh]

I really like the transitions, but what would make the deal is a way for the date on the title page to change to the current date... automatically. Since I repeat the same lecture over an over. It is a pain in the arse to have to do it every-time. Let's just hope.
Oh, the transitions are cool though. I guess we'll see next week. :D

i have no clue, but could %d work? like %t for time?
just a guess :confused:

[Sir_Giggles]

Agreed. What iPhoto really needs is support for cataloging video clips, kind of the way that Google's Picasa does.

Can't do much with video clips in iPhoto. Perhaps it would be better if there was a companion software for iMovie that allows for cataloging, and perhaps some sort of archiving mechanism.

[mdriftmeyer]

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=kuverf.6.94

File Date: November 28, 2004.

Word Mark: AIRTUNES

Goods & Services:

IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer software for communication between computers and home entertainment systems; multimedia computer software for the reproduction, processsing and streaming of audio content; Computer software for communication between computers and home entertainment systems; multimedia computer software for the reproduction, processing and streaming of audio content. FIRST USE: 20040607. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040607

[mdriftmeyer]

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=kuverf.6.51

Filing Date: December 6, 2004

Goods & Services:
IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer hardware; computer software; prerecorded computer programs for personal information management; database management software; character recognition software; telephony management software; electronic mail and messaging software, paging software; database synchronization software; computer programs for accessing, browsing and searching online databases; computer operating system software; application development tool programs for personal and handheld computers; handheld electronic devices for the wireless receipt and/or transmission of data, particularly messages; handheld electronic devices with video, phone, messaging, photo capturing and audio transmission functionality; software for the synchronization of data between a remote station or device and a fixed or remote station or device; Portable digital electronic devices and software related thereto; handheld digital electronic devices and software related thereto; digital audio players, including digital music players, and software related thereto; digital video players and software related thereto; MP3 players and software related thereto; handheld computers; personal digital assistants; pagers; electronic organizers; electronic notepads

[wdlove]

Around the end of March would be my guess :rolleyes:

That would be a surprise when most have predicted just around or prior to WWDC. A very good reason for a March release IMHO, would be that it would coincide with an upgraded Power Mac and PowerBook. It could be that these new versions would require Tiger.

[Sir_Giggles]

Seems like yearly updates of hardware now. :(

[timmyOtool]

it's nice talk about something other than the ipod for a change :)

[AppleMatt]

How will iLife '05 fit in with Tiger? We already now the iLife suite is getting another revamp with Tiger, so will iLife 'Tiger' be completely independent from iLife '05 or will it be iLife '05 reloaded (to borrow the term from MS!) with some features only for Tiger users?

Exactly my question!

Anybody have a clue if iLife '05 will have Tiger dependent features? Such as iPhoto with Core Image capabilities, iMovie that leverages Core Video, etc. . .

Hopefully iPhoto will get Spotlight integration so that;
1) You can search your photo library instantly a-la iTunes.
2) Titled photos appear in system-wide spotlight searches (currently searching for "Bob" will reveal pictures sent from Bob, but not iPhoto albumm pictures that are titled "Bob falling over" etc)

Maybe it will get CoreImage integration, as there was a lot of emphasis on the non-destructiveness of it. So, Apple could advertise that your photos would remain "in-tact" after you'd applied all these different effects etc, perhaps going so far as to script it or have "smart effects", where pressing a button will apply an effect to all enclosed items (eg sepia).

The only iApps I use these days are iTunes and iPhoto (use iTunes a lot more). My video and DVD stuff is done with the pro apps.

That being said, I will always buy the latest and greatest iApp package, even if I end up using just a part of it. Why? I don't know really. I just FEEL like I have to, as there might be a feature or two in the other apps that I will want to use one day.

Besides, its very inexpensive, and lets me have a shiny new box and go through that great fuzzy warm feeling of installing something new and sweet. Can't go wrong. ;)

We are alike, you and I :)

I'm almost sure, iTunes 4.7.1 will be released on Jan 11. Why? Because the single purpose of iTunes 4.7.1 is to offer support for the new iPods (mini and probably flash)

Typically Steve says "[product name] is available for download right now/straight after this keynote", and everyone hits Apples servers.

AppleMatt

[ipedro]

Is there any speculation as to a revised Airport Express with perhaps an incorporated remote controle for AirTunes?

I'm holding off buying an Airport Express until it is apparent there will be nothing new for a while or an annoucement is made about a revised AE.

[Platform]

it's nice talk about something other than the ipod for a change :)

YES

Even apple seems to have been hung up in iPod too much instead of computers :(

[Dave the Great]

HD support in iMovie? Not a chance. iMovie is the consumer application for people who want to edit videos of their kids running around the backyard. Final Cut Express doesn't support HD, so there's no way they'll add such a high-end capability to iMovie at this time. They probably wont for years.

I agree. There is no way iMovie is going to support HDV when FCP does not even support it, yet.

I could see support for H.264, since it will be included in Tiger. But, then if Tiger isn't going to be out for awhile they just might add this feature as an update when Tiger is released.

I just had to point out that I, Dave the Great, was wrong on this one. Yes, it is true. I am sorry.

[Rod Rod]

I just had to point out that I, Dave the Great, was wrong on this one. Yes, it is true. I am sorry.

Dave, don't be sorry. I was on the other side of that argument, pointing out all the reasons it makes perfect sense for iMovie to support HDV, and it turns out I was right. I'm not saying I told you so or anything...

j/k about the "I told you so," but it's nothing to express regret about. The position I took is partially colored by the fact that I own an HDV camcorder.

During his appearance at the MWSF '05 keynote address, the president of Sony hinted that lower-priced HDV camcorders are on the horizon.

It's great to see Apple ahead of the curve on simple HDV editing. iMovie 5's "Magic iMovie" feature is so amazing. I've tested it on DV and it works great. I have yet to try it out on HDV.

The long of the short of it is, anyone who has the funds to buy an HDV camera but decides to edit on iMovie needs to have their head examined.


Capturing HDV using the LumiereHD method is similar to all versions of iMovie prior to the current one except it's worse. The iMovie 5 method is a great improvement. I could see a pro workflow doing an automated HDV capture in iMovie and then migrating the project to FCE. (iMovie 5 projects can be opened in FCE HD, and not FCP).

[Dave the Great]

.. I told you so ...
Dave hangs head in shame.

Still I am extremely surprised that iMovie supports HDV. I know the pres of Sony mentioned cheaper HDV cams in the future, but when most consumers are in the <$1000 price range for cams, it is still going to be some time before iMovie types own HDV. However, I could be wrong again and continue my streak.


Which HDV cam do you have? I am surprised that you haven't tried it out with iMovie 5, yet. I hope you report back after you do.

Thanks.

[Rod Rod]

Which HDV cam do you have? I am surprised that you haven't tried it out with iMovie 5, yet. I hope you report back after you do.

I have the JVC HD10. I haven't gotten the chance to test HDV capture on it yet because I'm getting the camera serviced by JVC right now. I tested Magic iMovie with my 13-year-old cousin's digital8 Sony. In doing so I remembered how to edit with iMovie (which I hadn't done in almost two years) -- mainly that in order to trim a clip you must first remove a transition. The only quirk I found in Magic iMovie is that it automatically places a chapter marker at the beginning of each clip (at every pause or stop point in the tape). Cleaning that up and naming chapter markers is the only time-consuming hands-on part.

I'll report back about HDV use in iMovie 5... but I'm not sure which forum section is most appropriate for that (it may as well be a new topic).

[Dave the Great]

I have the JVC HD10. I haven't gotten the chance to test HDV capture on it yet because I'm getting the camera serviced by JVC right now. I tested Magic iMovie with my 13-year-old cousin's digital8 Sony. In doing so I remembered how to edit with iMovie (which I hadn't done in almost two years) -- mainly that in order to trim a clip you must first remove a transition. The only quirk I found in Magic iMovie is that it automatically places a chapter marker at the beginning of each clip (at every pause or stop point in the tape). Cleaning that up and naming chapter markers is the only time-consuming hands-on part.

I'll report back about HDV use in iMovie 5... but I'm not sure which forum section is most appropriate for that (it may as well be a new topic).

What happened to the JVC; Why is it being serviced? Have you been happy with it?

[Rod Rod]

What happened to the JVC; Why is it being serviced? Have you been happy with it?

I had some pixel anomalies on the CCD. I'm glad I got the HD10 instead of the HD1, and that I bought it from an authorized JVC dealer. The HD10 has a one year warranty and the HD1's is only 90 days.

These days you can find the HD1 for around $1200 and the HD10 for around $1500-1800, used, on eBay.

I've been happy with the camera. It's a lot of fun to shoot nature and play with shallow depth of field shots. The biggest drag is lack of full manual control and the lack of built-in ND filters. I guess I could get or make a matte box (and make filter changes much quicker and easier). For now I just do what I can with what I have.

[geeman]

Is there anyone out there from Europe (and for the sake of this poll let's include the UK in this :D :D ) who ordered iWork/iLife online and have already received their software?


My iWork order's still showing shipping on or before Jan 28...

:mad:

[Zaty]

Is there anyone out there from Europe (and for the sake of this poll let's include the UK in this :D :D ) who ordered iWork/iLife online and have already received their software?


My iWork order's still showing shipping on or before Jan 28...

:mad:

Same here. The official world wide release is Jan 29, so I guess we should receive our shipping confirmations soon.

[geeman]

Same here. The official world wide release is Jan 29, so I guess we should receive our shipping confirmations soon.


Thanks for the info. You would've thought that they could have released the apps globally from day one - like they do with hardware.

I'm assuming that there are no localised language versions (German, French, etc.) and that it is a "select language upon install" type thing? Anyone confirm?

[Zaty]

Thanks for the info. You would've thought that they could have released the apps globally from day one - like they do with hardware.

I'm assuming that there are no localised language versions (German, French, etc.) and that it is a "select language upon install" type thing? Anyone confirm?

Regardless if the software is multi-lingual (which it most probably is), they have to localise boxes and leaflets which might be one of the reasons for the delay, at least for non-English speaking countries.

[geeman]

...they have to localise boxes and leaflets which might be one of the reasons for the delay, at least for non-English speaking countries.

What about English-speaking countries outside of the US, such as the UK, Australia/NZ, South Africa, etc.? Printing that amount of boxes/leaflets takes a long time - plenty enough time to get translations done anyway. Plus it doesn't explain how Apple are able to release hardware around the world at the same time. Hardware needs leaflets and packaging as well, right?

BTW: When I bought my copy of FCP from the German Apple store, it arrived with 100% English-language packaging: there's nothing to indicate that it was purchased in Germany.

At the company where I work we produce all our communications in four languages. Yeah, it's a logistical nightmare, but we do it - and our entire company is only 45 people.

[Dave the Great]

I had some pixel anomalies on the CCD. I'm glad I got the HD10 instead of the HD1, and that I bought it from an authorized JVC dealer. The HD10 has a one year warranty and the HD1's is only 90 days.

These days you can find the HD1 for around $1200 and the HD10 for around $1500-1800, used, on eBay.

I've been happy with the camera. It's a lot of fun to shoot nature and play with shallow depth of field shots. The biggest drag is lack of full manual control and the lack of built-in ND filters. I guess I could get or make a matte box (and make filter changes much quicker and easier). For now I just do what I can with what I have.

The way you use it is perfect for the camera - it defeats the cons of the camera such as stabilization(I am assumming you are using a tripod), need for light(you are shooting outside), and issues with action sequences( I am again assuming you are shooting much more sedentary objects).


I am surprised they haven't come out with an upgrade to it, yet.