$499 Headless iMac?

[MacRumors]

Based on "highly reliable sources", Think Secret reports (http://thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html) that Apple is expected to announce a $499 G4 iMac at Macworld Expo, probably 1.25GHz, with 256MB of RAM, a 40GB to 80GB hard drive, a Combo optical drive, USB 2.0, Firewire 400, 10/100Base-T Ethernet, a modem, and support for Airport Extreme, VGA, and DVI, packaged with Appleworks and a special version of iLife without iDVD.The new Mac is said to be incredibly small and will be housed in a flat enclosure with a height similar to the 1.73 inches of Apple's Xserve. Its size benefits will include the ability to stand the Mac on its side or put it below a display or monitor.

Apple has been working on the low-end Mac for almost a year, sources report. Indications are Apple has been working mostly on finding the right mix of price, performance and features that would motivate Windows users to consider a Mac, and less on the actual engineering of the product. "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to design a bare-bones PC," said one source familiar with the project. "What it takes is a team of marketing and software experts to find the right mix to convince Windows users to buy a Mac at a price that is not much more than the cost of an iPod."

[Doctor Q]

The target audience is said to be Windows users looking for a cheap, second PC. Amazing that they could be working on this for a year and we are just hearing about it.

[Nermal]

I showed this to a Macless friend, and he said that if it's true, he'd be very happy. I'm sure a lot of other people will feel the same way :)

[Freg3000]

To make it perfect, knock another 50 dollars of the price if you buy it at the same time you buy an iPod. That's the target audience after all. :D

[rendezvouscp]

It is amazing, and at that price, almost irresistible. One might buy one just to have another Mac available. It could be "revolutionary."
-Chase

[rendezvouscp]

To make it perfect, knock another 50 dollars of the price if you buy it at the same time you buy an iPod. That's the target audience after all. :D

Ooo, that'd be awesome, and perfect for marketing. Do Apple do!
-Chase

[narco]

I really wanted to get a Cube as a second Mac in the house, but this sounds better. I'll have to wait and see what it looks like first, but I think it's a good move on Apple's part.

Fishes,
narco.

[Abstract]

Oh god, a new G4 desktop. Why not give it at least a 1.5GHz G4? The benefit of getting this system should be that it is absolutely tiny. Otherwise, they basically just made a headless eMac. YAY!! :o

[Chip NoVaMac]

For those of us that need portability, without the price of a notebook this could be an answer!

[Durandal7]

If true, I'll take one. I would prefer a slightly faster processor but this is about the type of cheap system I am in the market for.

[WM.]

I'm thinking a GeForce 5200 at best.

No whining. :p

[skymaXimus]

Wow, this sounds like the perfect companion to my PowerBook. Using .Mac (or some other sort of) synchronization this could be very sweet indeed.

[DMann]

This will be a truly brilliant move,
for starting an OSX revolution.
Tiger will no doubt outperform
Panther speedwise on this new
headless wonder..... Market share
might even cruise into the double digits!

[J-Squire]

I think I'll stick with my G5 iMac

[SiliconAddict]

If true I will pick two up the day they come out. One for my mom and one for me. I want a Mac but am waiting for a PowerBook revamp. (see sig.) And an iMac is just too expensive at this point. This would be perfect. If Apple did this I seriously think they could catch some market share in the next couple years. Honestly at that kind of price point I think most people would be willing to “try” out a Mac. Hell I spent more on my new iPaq 4700 for X-Mas then what the suggested/rumored price would be.
If this does come true it may be a sign that Jobs and co understands that market share does matter. Maybe Jobs is no longer happy being confined to being a niche player and if so all I can say is its about god **** time. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/headbang.gif

And before people start crapping on such a device keep in mind that there are MANY Windows users who aren't looking for a fast GPU. Aren't looking to be able to run the latest and grestest games. If the average user can get a Mac for cheap to replace their ageing Windows 9x desktop so much the better for Apple. I know some are going to see such an idea as stupid but frankly if you want to see MS go down this is the only way.
I say bring it on. Next X-Mas I would be willing to donate a couple of such systems to toys for tots at that price.

PS- I just hope to heck you can upgrade the RAM....256MB :eek:

[budugu]

I'm thinking a GeForce 5200 at best.

No whining. :p

I would be happy to see a GeForce 5200. Lets not hope it is a Ati9200(32MB)!! :D I would get one too (if it has a DVI!)!

[Reality Cheque]

Freaking Incredible!!!

Apple has been triggering shotgun blasts to its own head all these years by not offering a reasonably low-cost headless Mac. It's about time these otherwise brilliant people figured out that market share does matter!

More market share --> means more interest from developers --> means better choices at lower costs for Mac customers --> means happier customers with more $$ to spend on Apple --> means more revenue --> means more R&D money --> means better, more diverse product line --> means more market share -->...

Now if they would only step out of that other insanity bubble just long enough to fix the one-button mouse into something usable (hey, we know they can do it -- and better than anyone else-- it's the why they don't that no one understands).

[one3]

The description of this sounds a little like a mockup I did a month or two ago:

http://applepete.com/concepts/images/icentre.jpg

[SiliconAddict]

Umm question...What has Think Secret's rep been lately in regards to rumor accuracy? :confused:

[SiliconAddict]

Now if they would only step out of that other insanity bubble just long enough to fix the one-button mouse into something usable (hey, we know they can do it -- and better than anyone else-- it's the why they don't that no one understands).

Hey I'm willing to concede the one button mouse thing if this really does come true. Replacing the mouse is trivial. Well it is for desktops. :rolleyes: :cool:

[chewbaccapits]

This is the time of year when I always proclaim that I be rumor horny....!!!

[adam1185]

Umm question...What has Think Secret's rep been lately in regards to rumor accuracy? :confused:

They've been pretty spot on I'd say...I can't think of any mistakes they have made in a long time.

[ChrisWB]

This is awesome! I'll try to get one for my mother if this is true.

One3, that's a great creation. :)

[Chaszmyr]

They've been pretty spot on I'd say...I can't think of any mistakes they have made in a long time.

ThinkSecret has been either right or close to right on pretty much everything they've published for the last 2 years.

[DMann]

I think I'll stick with my G5 iMac

True, I've got the iMac G5 next to a Dual 2.5, and
probably won't go for one. But for Windoze users,
this might just be the vehicle to port them into the
real world.....

[bentmywookie]

Does this mean we won't be getting new powerbooks?

I wonder why they wouldn't equip these with Superdrives -wouldn't the cost difference not be that much if they were to prebuild all of them with the SDs? especially if they're going to be selling these in mass quantities.

[DMann]

The description of this sounds a little like a mockup I did a month or two ago:

http://applepete.com/concepts/images/icentre.jpg


I can only imagine the design to be truly amazing...

[Sir_Giggles]

This headless iMac has GOT TO BE expandable. You got to give consumers a reason to care. Expandable graphics, HD and memory. And I think $499 is reasonable, considering a iPod photo costs about the same.

Cheap enough, I might just get one myself and use it as a server or media centre PC.

[mcarnes]

Can't wait to see the design. Knowing Apple, it should be a beauty. I wouldn't buy one but I can think of many friends who would.

This is a great enrty point for people looking to switch. And once they use a Mac, they are likely to stay. Smart move Apple.

[johnny1290]

Jeez maybe I'm starting to fall into the Reality Distortion Field but Steve Jobs really *does* seem to be positioning Apple to take over the world. The retail stores *were* a good idea, the iPod *did* get people into them and got them looking at macs, and people *will* buy a $499 Mac, and right now the timing is perfect. People are sick to death of viruses and spyware, so a mac that costs little more than an iPod is worth a shot. It takes the risk out of buying a new OS, especially with iLife giving most users of a low end system most all the software they need, all done by Apple so you know it's good. This is gonna grow Apple market share for a change. These are going to be iPod hot before you know it. It's low power, yes, but perfect for users like me that just need the basics.

I think the rumor is gonna be accurate, right down to the lousy 256 megs of ram and smallish hard drive.

It's gonna fly off the shelves.

Hopefully the stock price goes through the roof :)

I like the mockup another poster made. I think he's probably pretty close to the design.

Any guesses as to how long it'll take Apple lawyers to try to squash this information?

God help the person that leaked this if it's true. Steve will NOT be happy.

[reggiejax]

Someone might know better, but Think Secret seldom makes such a definitive prediction that doesn't come true.

[DMann]

I really wanted to get a Cube as a second Mac in the house, but this sounds better. I'll have to wait and see what it looks like first, but I think it's a good move on Apple's part.

Fishes,
narco.

This could turn out to be a bird with two heads, or
should I say, two sets of wings, after all - both a
headless iMac and/or an entertainment hub for
TV, DVD, MP3, TiVO, etc. Surely looks promising...

[mms]

Sounds awesome, myself being a Cube user, but I like the sticking-the-entire-computer-behind-the-screen idea better now that I've seen it.

[digitaleon]

There's another possibility - or perhaps dual use - for this device; thin client-esque devices that add processing with XGrid. It would add value to their server line, given the capabilities Mac OS X client has to be managed. A bit more expensive than genuine thin-client solutions, but for a small business it would probably work out a bargain.

Speculation: It may be that Apple will market a slightly differently configured device with the same enclosure for just such a purpose. Perhaps even as a kind of "small network bundle".

Thoughts?

[SiliconAddict]

Yah know the sexiest thing about this possibility? Easy swap out with desktop systems in an enterprise environment. Yes I’m aware of network/application integration but from the hardware standpoint its simply drop kicking the desktop out the window and slapping in one of these babies. God what a way to go to bed tonight. I think I’m having a geek orgasm. ;) :D

[justinshiding]

The description of this sounds a little like a mockup I did a month or two ago:

http://applepete.com/concepts/images/icentre.jpg


If they built that...I would have to buy two...at least two. :)

Justin

[JFreak]

did anybody mention bluetooth? i'd be very interested to have an apple "set top box" that i could connect to my hdtv projector and living room speakers - it would however not be very good without wireless keyboard and mouse, and i just HATE overpriced and ugly dongles.

[iJon]

This headless iMac has GOT TO BE expandable. You got to give consumers a reason to care. Expandable graphics, HD and memory. And I think $499 is reasonable, considering a iPod photo costs about the same.

Cheap enough, I might just get one myself and use it as a server or media centre PC.
I can see the RAM and HD being upgraded. Video card, come one now, you know Apple better than this. This will be one simple all integrated unit if I had to guess. I would guess as well most people would agree with me.

jon

[corywoolf]

they didn't do that when florida was hit...

cool imac idea though....
i would be very suprised.
maybe sugar is a codename for the box. it sounds more like an entertainment device to me... maybe the missing link with airport express, it could hook up to your TV or something? :rolleyes:

[sjpetry]

I think this is going to be huge for Apple (not iPod huge) because so many people will beable to get a Mac now. I also think Apple might now have a competitive market share.

[hartsft]

would be very surprising if they did this after years of steadfastly not. iPod influence perhaps?

[iJon]

they didn't do that when florida was hit...

Last time I checked I didn't remember 60,000+ people dying in Flordia.

jon

[madmaxmedia]

I don't think it has to be expandable for its intended target market. The rumored specs and price are almost enough by themselves, just give it a nice looking design and it will be an absolute winner.

It would be nice if the graphics card is CoreImage compatible, but I doubt it. As long as it is Quartz Extreme capable that will be good enough.

It would also be nice to have a Superdrive, but I think they left it out on purpose to differentiate with other Macs, and drive eventual upgrades. Most people don't use or need a DVD burner (yet), according to some surveys I've read about (but not seen myself.) Remember the price- $499. 99% of us would have never imagine that Apple would release a computer at that price. So that it's happening at all is pretty impressive, of course it's going to have some Apple-imposed limitations.

I'm really, really curious how this one will look (I'm sure it will look great!) I imagine they will stay with the iPod design motif as well. White, with a clear acrylic layer. The flat shape described in the story of course sounds like an iPod shell already.

I have an eMac that I upgraded to a DVD burner and 120 GB HD, so doubt I would ever buy this one. But I'm sure gonna tell everyone I know about it, everyone who sees my eMac loves it (all Windows users of course.) I would be tempted to buy one just to have one, if Apple's stock goes up like I expect it will (I own some shares...) :)

[tosoil]

Considering my iBook never runs fan (at least I never hear it), I bet this one must be the same super quiet machine. The only concern of mine is how loud the hard drive would be. Any comment from iMac users?

If it is silent as iBook, I will definitely buy one as soon as possible.

For the GPU, I don't think Apple will never offer upgradability. But, I wish they put a GPU supporting Core Image.

[DMann]

The target audience is said to be Windows users looking for a cheap, second PC. Amazing that they could be working on this for a year and we are just hearing about it.

Now that iPod is out, and in the hands of millions, this is
an opportune time to release a most sensible peripheral
to connect it with, not to mention a new user experience
to boot.

Besides, I've heard rumors that Billy G has secretly been
lobbying millions, in hope to delay this inevitable storm -
The Tiger cometh....

[budugu]

This is going to keep us busy for a while ;) ... after the enthusiasm and the blood rush settled down a bit... it is hard to think how this will pursuade people? ofcourse the there will be an initial knee jerk reaction, but more i think of it it will be the people who already have a mac (like us) that are going to buy it. The base model starting it at 500, any reasonable (minimum to run panther/tiger) would end up atleast at 600 (with out a monitor). There is no entry level monitor from apple anyway. I tried to hook up my powerbook with a cheap 200$ monitor, result was just hopeless graphics (worse than windows). With no way to upgrade, you are pretty much going to eat into imac and emac sales than get more people. no matter what ever 'wizardary' apple marketing can show, G4 is not a match for the P4. At 600 people get highend desktops (if you are lucky add a free flat panel), not an entry level computer.

leaving all the 64 bitness (unless G4 is going 64 too), what i donot get is that the demographic apple is targeting is hardly changing. most of the people buying into apple are for asthetic beauty (i donot want to start a flame war here i could be wrong!), and the point is lost once you have any 'outside' component that will not blend in. If you are talking of people wo are moving to macs because they cannot bear the malware on windows then it is the imac crowd. The botom line is that people will have to spend close to atleast 850 (computer+a decent monitor) bucks and get an half baked solution (with a very uncertain future) and would rather spend couple of hundred more and get a imac if they want a mac!

nevertheless apple slashing prices is good! After all this i might order it the day it appears!!

[Chaszmyr]

This could be very good for Apple (or very bad, but probably not). Surely though, it seems a little strange that the high-end iPod will cost more than the low-end Mac

[jackieonasses]

With as much money as they are selling the iPod, they don't even have to worry about turning a profit at this time with the headless thingy. They have like 15 million in the bank....A very nice way to spend it! They SHOULD take the whole ibook guts, add airport and take off the screen, battery and make it about a 1/2 fatter, and you have a 500 dollar PC killer.


kyle

[Chaszmyr]

By the way, I think having a $499 headless computer as a part of the iMac family would be a tremendous mistake. They need a new name for it.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

The description of this sounds a little like a mockup I did a month or two ago:

http://applepete.com/concepts/images/icentre.jpg

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease... daddy needs a new pair of shoes!

[Chaszmyr]

They have like 15 million in the bank....

Try closer to $5 billion... Unless hopefully you are (in a grammatically poor way) talking about how many units you expect them to sell.

[veedubdrew]

Does anybody else see this as a sign of less expensive displays? Surely Apple doesn't expect a switcher to walk into an Apple Store and take home this new $499 box hitched to a $1299 display.

Regardless, I can think of three people I know who will jump all over this. They're in love with their iPods, sick of Windows, but not willing to pop $1500 for a nice iMac G5.

-Drew

[madmaxmedia]

The HD shouldn't be too loud. But the fan will be louder, as the eMac has a louder fan than the iBook. Unless they're able to really improve on the airflow in this new model.

Considering my iBook never runs fan (at least I never hear it), I bet this one must be the same super quiet machine. The only concern of mine is how loud the hard drive would be. Any comment from iMac users?

If it is silent as iBook, I will definitely buy one as soon as possible.

For the GPU, I don't think Apple will never offer upgradability. But, I wish they put a GPU supporting Core Image.

[DMann]

Jeez maybe I'm starting to fall into the Reality Distortion Field but Steve Jobs really *does* seem to be positioning Apple to take over the world. The retail stores *were* a good idea, the iPod *did* get people into them and got them looking at macs, and people *will* buy a $499 Mac, and right now the timing is perfect. People are sick to death of viruses and spyware, so a mac that costs little more than an iPod is worth a shot. It takes the risk out of buying a new OS, especially with iLife giving most users of a low end system most all the software they need, all done by Apple so you know it's good. This is gonna grow Apple market share for a change. These are going to be iPod hot before you know it. It's low power, yes, but perfect for users like me that just need the basics.

I think the rumor is gonna be accurate, right down to the lousy 256 megs of ram and smallish hard drive.

It's gonna fly off the shelves.

Hopefully the stock price goes through the roof :)

I like the mockup another poster made. I think he's probably pretty close to the design.

Any guesses as to how long it'll take Apple lawyers to try to squash this information?

God help the person that leaked this if it's true. Steve will NOT be happy.

All the pieces are in place, except for Tiger. By the time they start flying
off the shelves of the strategically sprawling retail stores, Tiger will be only three months from release, and will likely be offered as a free upgrade.

As far as a leak is concerned, it was most likely intentional -- let's whet the appetite and anticipation for the masses so they can start saving$$. Free advertising for a device which will be difficult to compete with by Dell, HP, Sony, TiVo, et.al. Let the good times roll!

[tosoil]

The HD shouldn't be too loud. But the fan will be louder, as the eMac has a louder fan than the iBook. Unless they're able to really improve on the airflow in this new model.

But, I thought the reason that the fan is louder in eMac is just because of CRT. Isn't it?

[DMann]

Does anybody else see this as a sign of less expensive displays? Surely Apple doesn't expect a switcher to walk into an Apple Store and take home this new $499 box hitched to a $1299 display.

Regardless, I can think of three people I know who will jump all over this. They're in love with their iPods, sick of Windows, but not willing to pop $1500 for a nice iMac G5.

-Drew

Apple is allegedly releasing a new line of displays, most
likely an economy line, which would compliment the
headless iMac nicely.

[budugu]

There's another possibility - or perhaps dual use - for this device; thin client-esque devices that add processing with XGrid. It would add value to their server line, given the capabilities Mac OS X client has to be managed. A bit more expensive than genuine thin-client solutions, but for a small business it would probably work out a bargain.

Speculation: It may be that Apple will market a slightly differently configured device with the same enclosure for just such a purpose. Perhaps even as a kind of "small network bundle".

Thoughts?

I think that would be the real intent in the first place to begin with like sun rays. Educational institutions would like that definitely. In our univ we have a central lab with atleast 100+ of them. But educational institutions and other large coporate vendors donot buy pieces, ie thin client from one , monitors from other etc, it is just a huge hastle, Apple does not have monitors for the masses (ofcourse they could make them specially). Xgrid in my opinion is tangential to thin-clients, and it requires high speed networking and decent processors as opposed to the minimalist power at client and a very powerful server for the later. With out a very powerful server software and hardware they are pretty much impractical.

[fpnc]

Spring must be coming early this year -- April the first already?

This has got to be one of the most unbelievable rumors I've seen. I'd say not even a one percent chance of this happening. And what about an Apple-labeled display for this product? It doesn't exist today so they'd have to introduce a standalone 15" to 17" LCD for well under $400 for this to be a complete and truly competitive product. I don't see how that could happen as it would have to vastly undercut the price of today's Cinema displays. They could introduce a low-cost CRT display to go with this product, but I think that's unlikely also (one step forward, one and one half steps back if going to a CRT-based lineup).

Of course, if a product like this was introduced I'd be mighty tempted (since I have some "spare" displays) but it would have to include a decent video processor (GPU) with at least 32MB of VRAM, with DVI output, and with GPU support for Tiger's Core Image. The GPU could be the deciding factor in this product, not so much for games (since a 1.25GHz G4 won't be much of a game machine) but for hardware support of Tiger's Core Image. If they can do all that in a nicely designed box for $499 then it could be a smash hit. However, I don't think it's even possible to buy a PC with features like that for under $500.

[maya]

With as much money as they are selling the iPod, they don't even have to worry about turning a profit at this time with the headless thingy. They have like 15 million in the bank....A very nice way to spend it! They SHOULD take the whole ibook guts, add airport and take off the screen, battery and make it about a 1/2 fatter, and you have a 500 dollar PC killer.


kyle

I believe that is what they are doing. :)

[madmaxmedia]

We will see, but all I can say is that I completely disagree with you.

1. Why would this model be less likely to attract switchers than existing Macs? This model is aimed at people who spent $300-$400 on an beloved iPod, for only a little more they can check out the Mac now too.

2. I have no idea why you couldn't hook up a regular monitor to your PowerBook, but it's easy. Most people will likely use their existing monitor at first, and maybe some will buy an Apple one later. Either way, the important thing is to get them up and running on Panther/Tiger. Many will stay Mac users for the long haul.

3. With no way to upgrade, people who enjoy using their headless Mac are going to eventually buy the more expensive machines down the road. If it were upgradable, THEN it would eat into higher-margin Mac sales. You have it exactly opposite.

4. 64 bitness has nothing to do with this computer, and it's not half-baked at all. The iBook, PowerBook, and eMac are perfectly capable machines running on G4's. That's like saying a 2 Ghz Pentium computer is half-baked and incapable, when it's more than capable of almost all tasks a regular user will do.

5. Finally, if it turns out that this machine gets people in the stores, only for them to end up spending a little bit extra for an eMac or iMac or iBook, then this machine will have more than accomplished its purpose!!!

This is going to keep us busy for a while ;) ... after the enthusiasm and the blood rush settled down a bit... it is hard to think how this will pursuade people? ofcourse the there will be an initial knee jerk reaction, but more i think of it it will be the people who already have a mac (like us) that are going to buy it. The base model starting it at 500, any reasonable (minimum to run panther/tiger) would end up atleast at 600 (with out a monitor). There is no entry level monitor from apple anyway. I tried to hook up my powerbook with a cheap 200$ monitor, result was just hopeless graphics (worse than windows). With no way to upgrade, you are pretty much going to eat into imac and emac sales than get more people. no matter what ever 'wizardary' apple marketing can show, G4 is not a match for the P4. At 600 people get highend desktops (if you are lucky add a free flat panel), not an entry level computer.

leaving all the 64 bitness (unless G4 is going 64 too), what i donot get is that the demographic apple is targeting is hardly changing. most of the people buying into apple are for asthetic beauty (i donot want to start a flame war here i could be wrong!), and the point is lost once you have any 'outside' component that will not blend in. If you are talking of people wo are moving to macs because they cannot bear the malware on windows then it is the imac crowd. The botom line is that people will have to spend close to atleast 850 (computer+a decent monitor) bucks and get an half baked solution (with a very uncertain future) and would rather spend couple of hundred more and get a imac if they want a mac!

nevertheless apple slashing prices is good! After all this i might order it the day it appears!!

If you get one with all these objections, then it must be a nice little machine right? ;)

[MacSlut]

I'd buy a bag full of these, especially if they were like the posted iCentre mockup. I would use one at work and another one as my media server. This is in addition to the PowerMacs I already have.

Sigh...it can't be true, can it?

[DMann]

they didn't do that when florida was hit...

cool imac idea though....
i would be very suprised.
maybe sugar is a codename for the box. it sounds more like an entertainment device to me... maybe the missing link with airport express, it could hook up to your TV or something? :rolleyes:

It seems that a death toll of 60,000+ might somehow
exceed the significance of what happened in Florida.
Good point, however....

[madmaxmedia]

Sigh...it can't be true, can it?

LOL, that's what I'm wondering...

[maya]

By the way, I think having a $499 headless computer as a part of the iMac family would be a tremendous mistake. They need a new name for it.

iMac mini. Maybe :)

[Kagetenshi]

This headless iMac has GOT TO BE expandable. You got to give consumers a reason to care

And expandability isn't that reason. Seriously, some extra RAM is about as much as you can expect the target audience to add at some point, and even that isn't terribly likely.

~J

[DMann]

We will see, but all I can say is that I completely disagree with you.

1. Why would this model be less likely to attract switchers than existing Macs? This model is aimed at people who spent $300-$400 on an beloved iPod, for only a little more they can check out the Mac now too.

2. I have no idea why you couldn't hook up a regular monitor to your PowerBook, but it's easy. Most people will likely use their existing monitor at first, and maybe some will buy an Apple one later. Either way, the important thing is to get them up and running on Panther/Tiger. Many will stay Mac users for the long haul.

3. With no way to upgrade, people who enjoy using their headless Mac are going to eventually buy the more expensive machines down the road. If it were upgradable, THEN it would eat into higher-margin Mac sales. You have it exactly opposite.

4. 64 bitness has nothing to do with this computer, and it's not half-baked at all. The iBook, PowerBook, and eMac are perfectly capable machines running on G4's. That's like saying a 2 Ghz Pentium computer is half-baked and incapable, when it's more than capable of almost all tasks a regular user will do.

5. Finally, if it turns out that this machine gets people in the stores, only for them to end up spending a little bit extra for an eMac or iMac or iBook, then this machine will have more than accomplished its purpose!!!

Remember how they doubted the iPod, the iPod mini, and iTunes? The
user experience coupled with style will continue to draw in the masses.

[Xtremehkr]

Sounds like Apple is marketing to savvy students again. Good job Apple.

[iJon]

And expandability isn't that reason. Seriously, some extra RAM is about as much as you can expect the target audience to add at some point, and even that isn't terribly likely.

~J
I can't see Apple releasing this computer without some RAM expandability. It will probably be one of two things. 256 soldered to the logic board with 1 free slot for a total of 1.25 or two replaceable slots, one being filled by most likely a 256, total storage of 2 gigs.

jon

[johnny1290]

Like another poster said in regard to upgradeability, you should know Apple better than that.

Zero chance of processor upgradeability.

Hard drive-probably you can build to order a bigger one, but they're not going to make it easy for you to swap it out once it's in there. Remember, the case is tiny, my guess is iBook size without the screen like another poster said.

Memory-Gotta be able to upgrade this, cuz Apple is notorious for shipping with wayyyy too little memory. It's just the first thing you do when you buy a mac.

Graphics card-no way jose. You get what you get, and don't expect it to be high end.


I'm not a PC guy, but aren't the cheap E-Machines made so that they're not upgradeable in some way?

This is a cheap consumer level computer. If you want expandability, you gotta pay for a powermac.

I'm so excited I can hardly sleep. I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings! I'm totally geeked up.

Oh and don't forget how much negativity the iPod mini faced when it was first announced. That one turned out to be a pretty good idea as well.

Don't question The Leader!

[jadam]

Holy Crap!

$500?!?! I was just about to buy an iPod too, maybe I should just get a new mac ^_^


If this thing has an upgradable video card... it would be godsend!!! The Xserves have upgradeable video cards in their small enclosures, its just a matter of apple choosing to allow it or not. Either way, I bet Apple will introduce the 1.25ghz low end $499 model and a higher end 1.5ghz $599 or $699 model.

[dotnina]

Whoa ... I'd give this a zero on the credibility scale if it was coming from anyone other than Thinksecret. This is really surprising.

My question: will Apple start to produce some cheap CRTs / LCDs to go with this? The current monitors are obscenely expensive, and I can't imagine that the person who wants a $500 computer would drop twice that just for the display.

Anyway, this is quite amazing if in fact true. $500 seems almost TOO cheap ... for heaven's sake, they have an iPod selling for more than that.

[WM.]

iMac mini. Maybe :)
Yep, that's what I was thinking. Makes the tie-in with the iPod even more explicit.

[iJon]

Whoa ... I'd give this a zero on the credibility scale if it was coming from anyone other than Thinksecret. This is really surprising.

My question: will Apple start to produce some cheap CRTs / LCDs to go with this? The current monitors are obscenely expensive, and I can't imagine that the person who wants a $500 computer would drop twice that just for the display.

Anyway, this is quite amazing if in fact true. $500 seems almost TOO cheap ... for heaven's sake, they have an iPod selling for more than that.
I can imagine a drop in LCD prices, but not in correspondence to this. Also the price drops would probably not be worth writing home about. What I have seen alot is when people are getting a new computer they already have their old monitor left over good to go. Granted this will be some hideous setups with that beautiful Mac and an ugly beige screen connected, but if it gets buyers than so be it.

jon

[TWinbrook46636]

It's been mentioned elsewhere that this will likely be based on the iBook architecture. Makes sense. The specs would seem to support this theory. I would expect expandability to be about the same. Memory and Airport Extreme. I doubt this will be considered an iMac though with the G5 eMac likely being introduced around the same time. I just hope they at least offer a Superdrive as a BTO option.

[iJon]

It's been mentioned elsewhere that this will likely be based on the iBook architecture. Makes sense. The specs would seem to support this theory. I would expect expandability to be about the same. Memory and Airport Extreme. I doubt this will be considered an iMac though with the G5 eMac likely being introduced around the same time. I just hope they at least offer a Superdrive as a BTO option.
I don't know if we will see a SuperDrive as BTO. Right now I see it kind of hard and here why. Lets assume rumors are correct and we get a G5 eMac for about 799. A SuperDrive BTO would add $200 dollars to the price. Then you would be comparing a SuperDrive G4 to a Combo drive, G5 and a screen. It just seems all the BTO options would detract from will make this machine great. This just all seems a little off cause I am picturing everything in my head, we will just have to wait and see.

jon

[hmg]

Yes please sir, can I have 3 please?

A G4 based headless Mac would be perfect for parents and small servers...

[johnny1290]

I can imagine a drop in LCD prices, but not in correspondence to this. Also the price drops would probably not be worth writing home about. What I have seen alot is when people are getting a new computer they already have their old monitor left over good to go. Granted this will be some hideous setups with that beautiful Mac and an ugly beige screen connected, but if it gets buyers than so be it.

jon

LOL that's *exactly* what I was thinking! Should be some horrible looking contraptions, but does anyone doubt that Steve has some inexpensive flat screen monitors in the pipeline? He loves flat screens.

I agree with the other poster, if this weren't from Thinksecret I would disregard it. The details are what hook me. The small hard drives, the 256 megs of memory, the clockspeed, none of it is wild sounding. Sure, we've all heard about this headless mac forever and a day, but if there's a time to actually put it out, that time is now. Gotta strike while the iron is hot, and it's very hot right now.

The stock market might tell us if the rumor is true or not tomorrow. let's hope it is!

[budugu]

We will see, but all I can say is that I completely disagree with you.

1. Why would this model be less likely to attract switchers than existing Macs? This model is aimed at people who spent $300-$400 on an beloved iPod, for only a little more they can check out the Mac now too.

2. I have no idea why you couldn't hook up a regular monitor to your PowerBook, but it's easy. Most people will likely use their existing monitor at first, and maybe some will buy an Apple one later. Either way, the important thing is to get them up and running on Panther/Tiger. Many will stay Mac users for the long haul.

3. With no way to upgrade, people who enjoy using their headless Mac are going to eventually buy the more expensive machines down the road. If it were upgradable, THEN it would eat into higher-margin Mac sales. You have it exactly opposite.

4. 64 bitness has nothing to do with this computer, and it's not half-baked at all. The iBook, PowerBook, and eMac are perfectly capable machines running on G4's. That's like saying a 2 Ghz Pentium computer is half-baked and incapable, when it's more than capable of almost all tasks a regular user will do.

5. Finally, if it turns out that this machine gets people in the stores, only for them to end up spending a little bit extra for an eMac or iMac or iBook, then this machine will have more than accomplished its purpose!!!



If you get one with all these objections, then it must be a nice little machine right? ;)

To begin with weren't there rumors that emac was going G5 too? Any way all the emac/ibook sparing the current powerbook to a certain extent are not completely upto the mark to run tiger. As other posts have mentioned no one is going to buy a 1300$ monitor any time soon for a 500$ machine that cannot be upgraded. As far as your P4 2.0 Ghz comparison, yes it will be a stupid idea if some one were to go and buy a northwood or older 2.0 GHz P4 computer for 500$; simply because 1-2 years down the lane the software is far more demanding than at present.

People are not buying stuff because they can make profits for apple. As far as me buying it i have a spare 17" and 15" monitors (apple) lying arround and would use them (that is why the DVI request!). Moreover i enjoy playing with the latest tech suff (throw enough money down the drain :( ), Last but not the least i am not a windows (only!) user desperately waiting for Mr. Jobs to liberate me by giving me the first mac.

[SiliconAddict]

Spring must be coming early this year -- April the first already?

This has got to be one of the most unbelievable rumors I've seen.

Great. Here we go with the armchair “experts”.

You mean like that iPod photo rumor that everyone, or at least all the "experts", ****canned immediately as something Apple would NEVER do.

[Rubin421]

If this is true, I think I'll buy one immediately, for my parents. For web surfing, email and IM, this kind of machine along with a 15" TFT screen is just perfect!

[AdamZ]

This product is not some cheap headless iMac. This IS a Tivo/Set Top Box Unit!! Steve hinted to it in an anlysts meeting awhile back when he stated that there was a vast opportunity to make TV's smarter, and went on to say how the Windows Media Center PC was no good because it should be a DEDICATED device. Phil went on to say that the PC is diverging, not converging. Look at the price and features people. How much you wanna bet!!! The link to the 2003 meeting has recently been taken offline.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/analystmeeting03/

Asked about Apple's interest in selling Macs that could serve up the video recording abilities Microsoft offers with its Windows XP Media Center Edition, Jobs joked that Apple was instead focused on melding the computer with a toaster.

"I never get mine quite brown," said Phil Schiller, vice president of marketing. "We can do an up-sell for bagels."

Jobs said that he doesn't see such products creating a big market.

"We're not going to go that direction," Jobs said. "There is a small audience that likes this."

Jobs said there are several problems with the Media Center concept, in particular the wide divergence in the way people want to watch television as compared with how they use a computer. "Generally what they want to view on television has to do with turning their mind off," he said.

Jobs said that video recording is processor intensive and is best left to a device that is not doing other things such as playing games or running spreadsheets. "When I want to record 'The West Wing,' I want to make damn sure it records 'The West Wing,'" he said.

[iJon]

LOL that's *exactly* what I was thinking! Should be some horrible looking contraptions, but does anyone doubt that Steve has some inexpensive flat screen monitors in the pipeline? He loves flat screens.

I agree with the other poster, if this weren't from Thinksecret I would disregard it. The details are what hook me. The small hard drives, the 256 megs of memory, the clockspeed, none of it is wild sounding. Sure, we've all heard about this headless mac forever and a day, but if there's a time to actually put it out, that time is now. Gotta strike while the iron is hot, and it's very hot right now.

The stock market might tell us if the rumor is true or not tomorrow. let's hope it is!
I really don't see Apple coming out with cheaper quality low end screens. I see them showing a customer "Oh, you already have a screen and you want a low end Mac, well check this out" or "So your looking for a whole new set up, well here is the iMac and the eMac, everything good to go out of the box."

I think new cheaper quality displays will just confuse customers as why they should spend extra cash on the nice Cinema Displays. But in light of this new news, I am disappointed to see the 17" are available anymore, that would be a perfect monitor for these machines. On the other hand, I can see Jonathon Ive being disgusted that customers are forced to look at a silver screen for a white computer, that is a design disaster in the making:p

jon

[iJon]

How much you wanna bet!!!
How much money do you have?

jon

[Awimoway]

iMac mini. Maybe :)

My thoughts exactly. Perhaps it will come in silver, gold, pink, blue, and green?

Either way, this is thrilling news. I think a lot of people I know -- including my wife -- will finally switch if this is true.

[justinshiding]

A G4 based headless Mac would be perfect for parents and small servers...

I was thinking that too. My parents are looking for a new computer and don't really care what kind of machine it is , but they care about the price. Toss out the old pentium three 733mhz w/128 mb ram and pop this little wonder in it.

For those that aren't tech savvy and have older machines this is a pretty great deal. Faster computer, better os, brand name (fewer worries about build quality), and a good price point.

Justin

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

This headless iMac has GOT TO BE expandable. You got to give consumers a reason to care. Expandable graphics, HD and memory. And I think $499 is reasonable, considering a iPod photo costs about the same.

Cheap enough, I might just get one myself and use it as a server or media centre PC.


::screeeeeech::

No, no, no. No offense, but wrong. It doesn't need to be expandable more than RAM really. At $499 it's a minimal profit modular machine based on older specs/hardware (i.e. eMac/iMac G4/iBook/Powerbook) that has a good design that suits it's intended purpose. It's not going to have a G5 (initially), but eventually it will find a G5 inside in a few revisions... likely a 1.6-1.8 Ghz. model and a iMac G5-based architecture with soldered in graphics around the time the G5's are at 2-2.5 Ghz. for the base.

Apple could do well to offer a similarly devised G5 version with better graphics and specs based off of the iMac G5 architecture that could work as a low-end server or budget-rate intermediate desktop (say... $899-1,099; counting on at least a $200+ profit per machine by axeing the LCD's which has to be palatable to Steve Jobs' tastes; can cut tighter if he "wants" to on margins). Once again though, this will *NOT* be a Pro desktop. It's a consumer model that's geared to be cheaper. Even a slimline G5 wouldn't be upgradable. That's where the G5 single processor tower comes in, along with the dual processor towers. The iMac isn't upgradable... never has been really.

Gaming rigs are more like workstations, and that's exactly what your High End G5's are. I know a lot of people keep arguing "But I can build a PC for a lot less that plays <game name here>" but the fact is, look at what Dell and Alienware and the rest sell as Gamer's boxes? They're all high-end, top shelf, and cost a mint. Yes you can play games on a lesser box... but Apple isn't in the PC market of making 40 different available configs. It's not cost-effective. It won't happen.

Not that the Mac is a major gamer's platform anyhow to begin with. If you want a gaming box... either 1) buy a PC for the task, or 2) buy a console. Until Apple sells enough boxes like these to make the marketshare viable, your not going to see games en masse nor gaming conceived hardware configurations that aren't a G5 Pro Desktop. Not that piracy concerns hasn't hamstrung the release of new PC games as it is. A lot of gaming franchises now are becoming almost exclusively console-related for this reason.

So while I can see a higher end G5 iMac-based version of a thin client like what has been said (said this on Applenova's board eons ago)... there's little point for the low-end to be upgradable when Apple's likely to be cutting them out at tight margins and wanting you to use it, and ship it out and buy a new one in a few months. A sub-$500 desktop cuts in on the used Mac market. Right now you're hard pressed to find a 733 Mhz. QuickSilver G4 for less than $500 on eBay, even the DA Graphite 733 is selling for $519-549 depending on config. That's a USED machine people. No option for Applecare. A lot of risks and ::finger-crossing:: involved.

As far as the argument about monitors...

Horsehockey! LoL Even if you count tax + shipping on one of these, it's 2x's the speed of an eBay bought USED machine and I can put whatever monitor on it I want whenever I want to. I can throw a $99 19" PC CRT monitor. I can buy a $23" Apple Cinema. I can buy one, and upgrade to the other one later at my leisure as I can afford to, which also later helps me when I decide I want a G5 desktop or another G5-based version of one of these low-end single processor slimline boxes.

It's INGENIOUS. It's a much better value per $!

I've got a PC friend that would love to get a cheap Mac. When I show him the costs of used PowerMacs + the Mhz. count... he freaks out. Where $400 can buy you a brand new cheap PC... on the Mac it buys you... used... more than 2-3 years old used at that! A 733 Mhz. Quicksilver at $600-800 used is flat-out robbery (price the same machines as refurb and you're better off buying a NEW G5!!).

Now that Apple is potentially shipping a *BRAND NEW* APP eligible $499 machine that's nearly 2x's as fast as said Quicksilver... why bother with used?!? They can both use the same monitors. The bus speeds are similar unless Apple foolishly hamstrings it (I doubt it), and while it's not as upgradable... how upgradable do you really need to be in one of these? If I wanted bleeding edge and max upgradability I'd be ordering a G5 (and that's still tempting with the single 1.8's but still, that's likely 8 months or more away for me). I don't have the $ at this time so a G4 of one of these is a definite consideration. I know that asking for anything more isn't doing Apple any favors, will cost more per unit to produce, and cuts their margins (Apple has always played on higher margins, to ask them to even make a machine like this one has been "TOUGH" to negotiate). The Cube failed because it was trying to be a fetish item rather than a usable low-cost or lower-cost computer. At it's pricepoint it was a failure because it wasn't a value as much as a sexy design, and design alone "FAILED" to sell it en masse... if sold at 1/2-2/3 of a Pro G4 desktop's tag it would've been a success, but it sold at roughly 90-110% of the much more upgradable desktop's tag!!

Hell I'm on a 700 Mhz. Sonnet equipped 9600 and I find my machine at this juncture usable! If Apple had put out something like the above machine's specs on the market 18 months ago (with less processor of course at that stage) I guarantee I'd *NOT* be on my 9600 today. If they don't do it now... I won't be on "NEW" Apple hardware in another 6-8 months at the very least, if not considerably longer.

Used machine sales don't directly guarantee a new profitable Apple sale, the $ purchased doesn't go into Apple's pocket directly or even guaranteed indirectly. This ::noting above machine specs:: will. Even if the profits are "minimal" per machine Apple sells... it'll be more than nothing and it'll cut the costs of used machines substantially because the supply vs. demand will shift. All of the above will likely increase Apple's marketshare.

I'm not saying Apple needs to bleed themselves dry to make this a success... at $499 I'm sure they're going to make a nice profit per machine. It might not be as hefty a profit as a G5 desktop... but it'll be something they're not getting right now. It's not about Apple building a $299 PC. It's about Apple coming "close enough" to 1) remain profitable per unit and 2) increase overall Mac OS X penetration. Their closest option to a $3-499 PC that often comes with monitor, is a $799 eMac where you're locked into a 17" monitor. Want to use a 19" CRT, an existing PC 19" monitor you have lying around? Want to hook a Mac up to a KVM that includes your PC monitor, keyboard, and mouse? You're buying a G5 at $1499, or a used Mac at highway robbery pricepoints.

At least... until now (presuming this holds true).

As far as upgradability... if it's got Firewire (for external drives), and USB (preferrably USB 2 if they can make that happen)... maybe Bluetooth... it's set. You don't need much more than that. Any drives you need to add... can all be done via Firewire 400 or USB 2. Printers... via USB and Bluetooth. Scanners... Firewire or USB. Beyond that... as long as you can stuff in a Gig of RAM, add hard drives (Firewire or USB2), and add a DVD Burner (maybe as a BTO Superdrive version for $529 [which I'd even jump for], or an external Firewire [i.e. Lacie]). You're set. That's all this box needs. Anything else is people wanting Apple to give them the farm, the keys to the new John Deere, and enough money to sustain a Woodstock-like party with on the grounds. Apple won't do this type of machine unless they can make a profit. They (assuming they build it) will cut corners, initially, and add configs. at specific pricepoints as demand warrants/begs. I guarantee if Apple builds these en masse, the costs of Mac's will drop and more and better configs will come. It's just the law of supply and demand and costs of production at work. Apple machines cost $ to build because they're built in less supply and based off of proprietary motherboards that Foxconn doesn't just ship out to everybody for OEM usage as well as sell variants in their own boxes at Fry's and other BYO machine retailers.

I just hope they do it. :) I can guarantee at least 1 sale now (considering I've been shopping G4's on eBay of late, Christmas put a hefty dent in my G5 fund), if not 2 in the next 18 months. Build it Apple... and they will come.

[narco]

Does anybody else see this as a sign of less expensive displays? Surely Apple doesn't expect a switcher to walk into an Apple Store and take home this new $499 box hitched to a $1299 display.

Regardless, I can think of three people I know who will jump all over this. They're in love with their iPods, sick of Windows, but not willing to pop $1500 for a nice iMac G5.

-Drew

Well, Apple.com does offer other, cheaper displays through their website -- even a CRT if I'm not mistaken. But I think a cheaper display would be nice, because I honestly don't see people forking out more than double the amount of the computer for one. Maybe they might re-sell the old displays? All I know is that a lot of people will be turned off if they have to go two a different store (like Staples or Best Buy) to buy a monitor.

Fishes,
narco.

[budugu]

This product is not some cheap headless iMac. This IS a Tivo/Set Top Box Unit!! Steve hinted to it in an anlysts meeting awhile back when he stated that there was a vast opportunity to make TV's smarter, and went on to say how the Windows Media Center PC was no good because it should be a DEDICATED device. Phil went on to say that the PC is diverging, not converging. Look at the price and features people. How much you wanna bet!!! The link to the 2003 meeting has recently been taken offline.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/analystmeeting03/

Does this 'divergence' mean that you need a mini-pc with every electronic device? :eek:

PS: Ofcourse assuming that rumor is right in the first place.

[iJon]

Well, Apple.com does offer other, cheaper displays through their website -- even a CRT if I'm not mistaken. But I think a cheaper display would be nice, because I honestly don't see people forking out more than double the amount of the computer for one. Maybe they might re-sell the old displays? All I know is that a lot of people will be turned off if they have to go two a different store (like Staples or Best Buy) to buy a monitor.

Fishes,
narco.
They do offer the cheaper displays, but what I'm curious about is if Apple offers them in stock at the Apple retail stores. If not they might need to.

jon

[madmaxmedia]

To begin with weren't there rumors that emac was going G5 too? Any way all the emac/ibook sparing the current powerbook to a certain extent are not completely upto the mark to run tiger. As other posts have mentioned no one is going to buy a 1300$ monitor any time soon for a 500$ machine that cannot be upgraded. As far as your P4 2.0 Ghz comparison, yes it will be a stupid idea if some one were to go and buy a northwood or older 2.0 GHz P4 computer for 500$; simply because 1-2 years down the lane the software is far more demanding than at present.

People are not buying stuff because they can make profits for apple. As far as me buying it i have a spare 17" and 15" monitors (apple) lying arround and would use them (that is why the DVI request!). Moreover i enjoy playing with the latest tech suff (throw enough money down the drain :( ), Last but not the least i am not a windows (only!) user desperately waiting for Mr. Jobs to liberate me by giving me the first mac.

The eMac may or may not go G5, I guess we'll see about that. But that doesn't change that the G4 is still more than capable for the desired audience for this machine. iLife, web, email, productivity apps, etc.

My point about the 2 Ghz Pentium was not that people should buy one, but that a 2 GHz PC is not nearly the latest and greatest, but is more than enough for the casual home user. It's not a great machine, but in that sense it's not "half-baked" either. Although a new machine running at that speed would be I guess...This machine isn't the fastest clock speed, but that trend exists throughout Apple's line until IBM or Motorola can actually get back on track (the PowerBook is in more dire straits IMO.)

As far as monitors go, they are either going to release some budget monitor(s), or rely on 3rd-party. Of course no one will buy a $1300 Apple display to mate with this, but they don't have to. This machine is for switchers, who already own a Windows PC and monitor.

Finally, why aren't those machines up to running Tiger? If anything, the basic Tiger OS will be a little more optimized over Panther. The only types of functions that I'm aware of that won't run on those machines is Core Image, which is really beyond most users (for now.) It's more important IMO that this machine is Quartz Extreme compatible (which of course isn't that hard...)

What else would you have Apple realistically create for the average home user, that they could sell for this price? Or perhaps the larger issue is, what would you have Apple do to preserve or actuallly increase market share? The iBook is similarly spec'ed and is one of Apple's best sellers. A desktop should be better spec'ed than a notebook, but if this machine is $499 then it is really really cheap for Apple as it is. We'll see what the final specs are I guess (if this machine actually comes out! :) .)

People are not buying stuff because they can make profits for apple, which is exactly why Apple needs a lower-margin, lower-priced unit like this to increase or even just maintain its market share over the long haul. Over the long haul, some or many of these switchers will stay Mac, and buy higher-margin goods down the road.

[AdamZ]

How much money do you have?

jon

Enough. But when I turn out to be right, you owe me one of the devices. Come on guys all the parts are there and it all fits into place. This DVR will eventually provide content to feed that stupid concept of a Video iPod. Jobs and Phil have spoken so much about TV's and all the clutter behind them.

[AdamZ]

Does this 'divergence' mean that you need a mini-pc with every electronic device? :eek:

PS: Ofcourse assuming that rumor is right in the first place.


Sure is looking that way. Ever see a science fiction movie?

[jadam]

Wouldn't it be killer if this thing had a TV tuner built in? That would make it an almost perfect set top box with bluetooth.

[TWinbrook46636]

I don't know if we will see a SuperDrive as BTO. Right now I see it kind of hard and here why. Lets assume rumors are correct and we get a G5 eMac for about 799. A SuperDrive BTO would add $200 dollars to the price. Then you would be comparing a SuperDrive G4 to a Combo drive, G5 and a screen. It just seems all the BTO options would detract from will make this machine great. This just all seems a little off cause I am picturing everything in my head, we will just have to wait and see.


Normally I would agree but I think the full iLife experience would be an important selling point. They could offer two stock versions I suppose. I doubt they will. I'm just saying they should.

[GulGnu]

I don't know if we will see a SuperDrive as BTO. Right now I see it kind of hard and here why. Lets assume rumors are correct and we get a G5 eMac for about 799. A SuperDrive BTO would add $200 dollars to the price. Then you would be comparing a SuperDrive G4 to a Combo drive, G5 and a screen. It just seems all the BTO options would detract from will make this machine great. This just all seems a little off cause I am picturing everything in my head, we will just have to wait and see.

jon


Sweet - time to get a new mac. (My iBook appears to have gone belly up - out of warranty of course :/ )

[Awimoway]

All I know is that a lot of people will be turned off if they have to go two a different store (like Staples or Best Buy) to buy a monitor.


Oh, I don't think people will mind that much. The idea is that the iPod has convinced them of Apple's talent. Motivated buyers won't care if they have to make two stops. That being said, I imagine the Apple stores will stock some bargain displays for the few iMac mini buyers who need/want a new display (assuming Apple doesn't launch their own line of economy displays).

One of the most common knocks against Apple is the wastefulness of the all-in-one approach -- displays take much longer to be outmoded than computers, and abandoning your perfectly usable CRT to spend over a grand on an iMac seems silly to a lot of people.

Most people won't have to go to another store to get a display because they'll already have one.

[40167]

Well personaly in my own opinion, id never want to see something like that hit the shelf... I've always seen Apple computers as high end, expensive and I guess you could say exotic like a nice Porsche. For me personaly, having a product at that price range would be like Porsche making a car thats as cheap as a toyota. Good for the company? probibly, but I think that ruins the whole exotic idea.

[Bunzi2k4]

hmmm I don't know about you, but 1.25 ghz G4 seems a little slow. I think it should be around 1.33-1.5ghz. even if it were $50-$100 I think it'b a better buy...

[iJon]

Normally I would agree but I think the full iLife experience would be an important selling point. They could offer two stock versions I suppose. I doubt they will. I'm just saying they should.
I completly agree and I think Apple will make it work somehow, even if it is just a simple $200 price increase.

jon

[MacWhispers]

If true, this really pressures Apple to also offer 15" and 17" displays... and, at reasonable (meaning competitive) prices.

I can't imagine Apple selling a product at their stores with a built-in certainty that a large portion of those buyers would then instantly be compelled to go elsewhere to complete their new system purchase.

That's retailing hari-kari.

So, for what it's worth, I have to believe that Apple selling a headless Mac = Apple also selling low-end displays.

This equation is why I seriously doubt the truth of this particular rumor... even though it's on the often credible Think Secret. It's the same set of realities that has kept Apple away from this market segment previously.

Nothing's changed.

[Awimoway]

Well personaly in my own opinion, id never want to see something like that hit the shelf... I've always seen Apple computers as high end, expensive and I guess you could say exotic like a nice Porsche. For me personaly, having a product at that price range would be like Porsche making a car thats as cheap as a toyota. Good for the company? probibly, but I think that ruins the whole exotic idea.

Although I think the implications of your attitude are potentially quite offensive, we're all entitled to our opinions, and I won't knock yours. But as for me, although I don't drive a luxury vehicle, I would like to think that, were I to own a Porsche, I would wish that everyone could be able to enjoy the superior driving experience.

I feel the same way about computing.

[TWinbrook46636]

Enough. But when I turn out to be right, you owe me one of the devices. Come on guys all the parts are there and it all fits into place. This DVR will eventually provide content to feed that stupid concept of a Video iPod. Jobs and Phil have spoken so much about TV's and all the clutter behind them.

I don't know, I took what Steve Jobs was saying to mean that TV functionality should never be integrated with a computer and if you want to tape something you should use your brain and set the VCR to do it. I don't think he gets the whole HTPC/PVR phenomenon and it is well known that he hates TV anyway. At one time they were working with Tivo for music and photo sharing but it seems Tivo is starting to fade into oblivion now. The PVRs that cable companies are providing are quickly surpasing them. I think once Blu-Ray recorders start hiting the market the HTPC/PVR idea will start to fade anyway. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I wouldn't mind having one. I just don't think he cares for this niche.

[Reality Cheque]

Take it to the bank: this will only ship with 10.4 -- they will ship the same day, March 24.

My thoughts: The speed benefit from 10.4 will be necessary for this box not to seem ridiculously slow, even if marketed to those who just need the "basics". Plus, Apple's been waiting for a truly stable, polished version of OS X before launching an all-out effort to convert Windows users.

10.3 is stable but still has networking issues and a barn full of bugs. Their "switch" campaign was just a tester. With 10.4 everything is in place: huge brand recognition with iPod making Apple synonymous with hip, quality, and style; years of real-world beta testing of OS X; and mountainous dissatisfaction with Microsoft. And now finally, a reasonable price-point for the zillions of consumers who are buy-curious, but can't imagine spending a grand on an e-mail box.

[IEatApples]

I would be really interested in a small computer like this if it could be connected to the TV + wireless mouse and keyboard.
Internet, pictures, movies, games... All you have on your computer on your TV. Is'nt this what Steve has been talking about? You know, all in one place. Is'nt this the point of iLife? :)

[40167]

Although I think the implications of your attitude are potentially quite offensive, we're all entitled to our opinions, and I won't knock yours. But as for me, although I don't drive a luxury vehicle, I would like to think that, were I to own a Porsche, I would wish that everyone could be able to enjoy the superior driving experience.

I feel the same way about computing.

Sure, for driving it would be nice to all have the same car experience (not nessisarly the same car though)... but I also feel as though with computers, if to many people are to use Apple systems you start to get problems like pc's have. You'll get viruses being made, you'll get the people that try to start destroying it and you'll get the whole thing where theres 100 programs from different people that do the exact same thing.

I just like Apple the way it is right now, maybe they don't have a super huge market share or the most users, but I think thats nice... personaly I don't want the device that everyone uses. Apple says "Think different"... well I want to be different; So I choose a mac.

If everyone started using a mac, id try to find something else even though the software would probibly end up keeping me since final cut pro doesn't run on anything else.

[jadam]

I don't know if we will see a SuperDrive as BTO. Right now I see it kind of hard and here why. Lets assume rumors are correct and we get a G5 eMac for about 799. A SuperDrive BTO would add $200 dollars to the price. Then you would be comparing a SuperDrive G4 to a Combo drive, G5 and a screen. It just seems all the BTO options would detract from will make this machine great. This just all seems a little off cause I am picturing everything in my head, we will just have to wait and see.

jon


You know, "Superdrives" dont cost $200...

[maya]

I believe the eMac is going to see the end of its life and this new iMac mini is going to replace it.

This about it Apple has no reason to buy CRT other than the eMac, discontinue the eMac line offer something similar without the CRT, tie it in with the iMac and iPod and you have a nice machine that fit, for Educational, Schools, Students, Small Business, Home Users, Media Centers and so forth.

People who say 1.25GHz is not fast are crazy this is not a great speed for the price. This is be the iBooks internals without a battery, an LCD screen, touch pad, and keyboard. It might even be thinner than the iBook.

One can bet that AEC card will be included with a BT optional or tossed in for good measure.

You can buy cheap lcd screens and crt's from anywhere what is the point of competing and introducing a 15" LCD all over again or even a 17" for that matter.

eMac = RIP

iMac mini = new educational system. :)

[Xtremehkr]

Hopefully they can back this up with some good software, like Appleworks X!!!

I go on, I know.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Enough. But when I turn out to be right, you owe me one of the devices. Come on guys all the parts are there and it all fits into place. This DVR will eventually provide content to feed that stupid concept of a Video iPod. Jobs and Phil have spoken so much about TV's and all the clutter behind them.

So does that presume that there's an OS X Media Center Edition?

LoL

I don't think so man. At least not at this stage. Maybe a few months after shipping as a build-on Tiger feature, but Apple hasn't noted of any plans for a Media-based OS. There's been no talk of anything like this being rolled into OS X. Not to mention... wouldn't it have a Superdrive built-in like the other DVR's that are shipping do that come bundled with TiVO, or the Media Center PC's that have Dual-Layer DVD drives available?!? ::scratchin' chin::

I don't see Apple tackling this *RIGHT NOW*... I could be wrong, but if they do... it likely would come built on a foundation similar to these specs that has a Superdrive in the list. If ThinkSecret is on with the specs... a lowly CD-RW in a unit gunning against TiVO's and Media Center PC's?!? I would presume it would have a SuperDrive, come with iTunes and iMovie integrated, likely some channel recording software that's similar to a TiVO box, and likely iDVD. The pieces are there... but where's the pretty simplified interface wrapper to wrap it in (think OS 9's "Simple Finder" or Media Center's interface as an example) that anybody can dive into? OS X is nice, but even it is too much for a lot of people that are used to "appliances". That's why Media Center's interface is simplified more.

Apple has the prowess to do it... no question. This machine lacks the specs to do it all as necessary. Even so, I think this machine if given a Superdrive and a patched up version of Panther (or maybe months later on Tiger) with a media-based interface that's easier for appliance-based users to decipher (think TiVO) than just trying to teach everyone to be a computer user out of the gates would work. It's just not going to happen with a CD-RW. LoL

Even so... nothing says that if/when Apple produces a machine like this, that it can't serve a dual-function purpose. It can be a low-end Mac, or a settop box. Either/or, or both. In fact doing so would likely mean even more sales of Apple units. They can hook into ::gasp:: Apple TV's, other companie's TV's, or even Apple or 3rd party monitors (which maybe... they're going to re-release a 15" and 17" monitor?).

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

[madmaxmedia]

Although I think the implications of your attitude are potentially quite offensive, we're all entitled to our opinions, and I won't knock yours. But as for me, although I don't drive a luxury vehicle, I would like to think that, were I to own a Porsche, I would wish that everyone could be able to enjoy the superior driving experience.

I feel the same way about computing.

In addition, you can't confuse price with quality. If your idea of a superior product is a high price tag, then you won't like this new computer. But there are examples of great design and poor design at all price points.

The car analogies are done to death, but if you want to compare this machine to anything, you can compare it to the Mini, which is a great handling little machine for a low price. Heck, it's even underpowered like this Mac, and has the "Mini" name! ;)

[maya]

You know, "Superdrives" dont cost $200...

Why not price a SuperDrive they cost about 80 USD, a combo drive cost 50 USD might be cheaper now with holiday sales.

The only reason they put in a Combo is because more people burn CD's than DVD's since it takes way to long at present at 4x even 8x. I do not see it getting anything higher than an 8x if they have a BTO.

Dual layer burners cost upwards of 100+ USD.

[Wuddel]

Not gonna happen if you ask me. Hoax. Though it propably would be a huge success if it turns out to be fairly reliable. It only lacks a DVD writer.

[Awimoway]

Sure, for driving it would be nice to all have the same car experience (not nessisarly the same car though)... but I also feel as though with computers, if to many people are to use Apple systems you start to get problems like pc's have. You'll get viruses being made, you'll get the people that try to start destroying it and you'll get the whole thing where theres 100 programs from different people that do the exact same thing.

I just like Apple the way it is right now, maybe they don't have a super huge market share or the most users, but I think thats nice... personaly I don't want the device that everyone uses. Apple says "Think different"... well I want to be different; So I choose a mac.

Well viruses will be a problem, but my impression is that OS X is overall a more secure system than Windows (the absence of Outlook alone is a big difference), so I'm not too worried.

As for most other issues, I would rather live in a world where hardware and software are more compatible with OS X. I would rather live in a world where the average kiosk or workplace computer is running OS X.

It may be true that, were OS X to gain a lot of marketshare, it might lose some of its virtues, but I think it would pick up a lot of new ones.

[budugu]

The iBook is similarly spec'ed and is one of Apple's best sellers. A desktop should be better spec'ed than a notebook, but if this machine is $499 then it is really really cheap for Apple as it is. We'll see what the final specs are I guess (if this machine actually comes out! :) .)


Ibooks, powerbooks (12") sell because there is no 12" laptop at that price range untill very recently (dell 700m etc). Most of the time laptops are mainly used for giving presentations, websurfing etc that not really platform specific! Exclusiveness in a market segment is the key to ibook success. i am not saying that they being cute is hurting them either. allowing people to customize the stuff for their needs definitely helps. As a small example i donot have to buy Dell XPS to get a gaming machine. A 4700/8400 + good 200$ graphics card would be fine and a lot less. Dell is not forcing me to take that Gaming machine down the throat. letting the end user costomize what he wants is some thing parallel to listening to the customer; Apple has a much more top-down kind of an approach where you need to fit into their offereings.

[AdamZ]

I don't know, I took what Steve Jobs was saying to mean that TV functionality should never be integrated with a computer and if you want to tape something you should use your brain and set the VCR to do it. I don't think he gets the whole HTPC/PVR phenomenon and it is well known that he hates TV anyway. At one time they were working with Tivo for music and photo sharing but it seems Tivo is starting to fade into oblivion now. The PVRs that cable companies are providing are quickly surpasing them. I think once Blu-Ray recorders start hiting the market the HTPC/PVR idea will start to fade anyway. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I wouldn't mind having one. I just don't think he cares for this niche.

VCR's on on the outs man, let's all take a hit of digital. Digital Hub I mean. Just wait and see. #1 Record live television, (who wants to take up sys resources doing that on their Powerbook. As Steve said "We want DVR's built right into the gosh darn TV!" #2 Stream Music and Photos from any of the in house Macs, #3 Use to WATCH TV on your Mac. I got an old 15in iMac in the bedroom, connect via firewire. The replacement for Elgato Firewire device. Let's all be really forward thinking now. They pulled the darn quicktime stream!! Just watched it last week!

[maya]

The "iCentre" concept design is loosing one factor it has an exhaust slot on the top like the iMac G5 however it has no intake might not need one since it running cool all it might need is a small silent fan with a side or back vent for intake at the bottom.

And Apple claimed the iMac G5 was more silent than a whisper. :)

[Kagetenshi]

I can't see Apple releasing this computer without some RAM expandability. It will probably be one of two things. 256 soldered to the logic board with 1 free slot for a total of 1.25 or two replaceable slots, one being filled by most likely a 256, total storage of 2 gigs.

jon

That's true, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. However, just because they keep that ability doesn't mean that a significant portion of the target market is going to use that ability unless they do it BTO.

~J

"Jons of the world, cast off your 'h's!"

Edit: IVIIVI4ck3y27 actually brought up a really good point, and I am now praying that they do not introduce this. If they do, the resale value of old Macs will crash through the floor.

[sjpetry]

I wonder what the name will be for the headless Mac? :cool:

[cr2sh]

Wow Apple.. way to go, yeh.. great idea. Let's sell a machine that has our old slow cpu and a tiny amount of ram to the switchers. Yeh, that'll keep 'em coming back for more. (sarcasm)

Seriously, why not take a bit of a hit on the profit margin and include 512mb of ram?? I mean what's wrong with Apple in the ram department? The base is always lacking.

I'm interested to see how small they can make it... but I'm not sold on the idea.

:cool:

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Ibooks, powerbooks (12") sell because there is no 12" laptop at that price range untill very recently (dell 700m etc). Most of the time laptops are mainly used for giving presentations, websurfing etc that not really platform specific! Exclusiveness in a market segment is the key to ibook success. i am not saying that they being cute is hurting them either. allowing people to customize the stuff for their needs definitely helps. As a small example i donot have to buy Dell XPS to get a gaming machine. A 4700/8400 + good 200$ graphics card would be fine and a lot less. Dell is not forcing me to take that Gaming machine down the throat. letting the end user costomize what he wants is some thing parallel to listening to the customer; Apple has a much more top-down kind of an approach where you need to fit into their offereings.

Yes but that's part of going the Apple route. They've built machines with soldered in processors and video in the past when PC manufacturers were building stuff out of a modular bucket of parts that were built in large factories in China by subcontractors that plug into industry standard sockets. Apple is about making healthy margins per component, and their customer-base will support that because they support Apple's existence regardless of whether or not their hardware at every pricepoint is bleeding edge. That's not the issue at all. The issue is the user experience as Apple gives it to them, with the performance that they're given to work with. The only people that compare the 2 are people who cross shop or are platform agnostic, and that is a smaller group. Some Mac users do know that the PC's are faster in some key areas... but they know that having to run Spybot on a daily basis is also not their cup of tea either, and being sold down the river to 1 OS vendor that controls the whole kit and kaboodle and fires off draconian tactics, or another OS that's open-source, widely available, not quite as polished, and lacking in certain key applications is their 2 roadmaps to deal with.

Both sides have pro's and con's... I can build a cheap PC that's a gaming powerhouse. Correct. Yet... I can't build a Mac out of spare parts. Apple's days of that being a dream died the minute Jobs told Motorola to take their CHRP-based clones and shove 'em. Get used to it... because it aiiiiiiiiiiin't comin' back m'friend. It wouldn't have lasted long anyhow. Apple would've died. End of story. Jobs did what he had to do, whether he wanted to do it or not (I tend to think so) is something you'll have to take up with him.

Apple can't and won't compete with PC's at the BTO-level the PC manufacturers can sustain. There's far more parts created for the PC to do this, and they're available at dirt cheap pricings with tight margins. The fact that the Mac's endian-ness + driver support aren't there for every single PC add-on card under the sun puts it in a position where it makes due with what it can. Apple can invest into areas where it sees a need... but you can't expect them to match what's available on the open seas of PC-dom. Whereas Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq, eMachines, et al. can tap into a huge sea of available hardware options, and present them in guise that is compatible with their OS. For anyone that's tried to boot Mac OS of any variety on a non-Apple spec'ed optical drive... you tell me the success you've had? ;)

In fact... high margins are the Apple way. The more Apple can eek out of you, the more likely you are to see a product surface. I think it's only been the iPod that's slowly starting to change this philosophy some as they see what marketshare can and does mean. I think that with Apple's reserve from mass leadership in the handheld audio market, that they're going to do what they can to build the marketshare up in the Mac market by a slightly more cut-rate machine. I guarantee though they won't play toe to toe with the marginless badboys at the bottom of the barrel with the speculated machine of record in this thread, and they'll be smart if they don't. Comparing the low-end Mac to the low-end PC is like Apple's to well... oranges. ;) Yet the difference between the person intrigued by some variety in their diet comes down to how cheap said Apple's are in comparison to said oranges. I think $499 is close enough to whet their appetites. ;) Might just give them enough fodder to "Think Different" for a change.

[sjpetry]

I know this is very forward thinking but imagine Apple becomes like Micro$oft, and everyone hates it because it becomes a monopoly. :(

Just Kidding I have much faith in Steve. :)

[fpnc]

I wonder what the name will be for the headless Mac? :cool:

iHeadless ??


Actually, I'll say it again, the availability of an Apple-branded display that could fit in this price range is the critical factor as to whether this rumor is true or not. Apple isn't going to want a novice user to leave the Apple store without a complete system. Also, I think the $500 price point only becomes compelling if it includes a GPU that will support Tiger's hardware-accelerated Core Image. That means at least a GeForceFX 5200 Ultra (same as in the G5 iMac -- okay, gamers can now start complaining). However, we can't hope for any more than that unless they upgrade the G5 iMac at the same time.

I think the eMac will stay in the lineup (if for nothing else other than the education market). However, it would be nice if Apple could produce a sub-1000 dollar G5-based product (that being, obviously, a G5 eMac).

[sjpetry]

iThink you have something with the iHeadless, you better run before Apple sues
you. :p

[Cappy]

If this is all true, the hype would make it sound like a nice solution for many folks.

Realisticly when was the last time that rumors of new systems had the right pricepoints to the dollar? My previous experience with such rumors seems that the pricing is always off by one or two hundred. Also one has to wonder about where the eMac and iMac line fall into this. eMac's are probably on their way out finally. iMacs are going to likely take a hit in sales unless price or heavy feature changes occur. The price gap *if* the rumors are true will be too great.

Basically thus far it sounds a bit like a laptop without the screen. Speaking of which if they use the same cpu as their lowend laptops, they could drive demand of the cpu's so that they can order from their supplier at cheaper prices.

Even with all of this the marketing will still need to come to the rescue with some sort of niche marketing scheme which will probably be to ipod users...possibly some specific ipod/itunes solution. I say this because it's not hard to purchase decent, fast pc's for under $499. I know there are many Dell bashers here but sales and marketing are what matter and Apple will have their hands full if they really are going to compete in this price range. Leveraging the ipod and itunes is just about their only chance of making this successful for the long run.

At any rate I'll certainly have my eye open to see if this truly comes about. If it's tiny enough, I'd imagine there'll be some linux dweebs interested in this as well.

[iJon]

You know, "Superdrives" dont cost $200...
Assuming Apple uses a laptop form factor, presumably the iBook for factor it will. The difference between the two 14" iBooks is $200 dollars. The difference between the two 12" Powerbooks is $200 dollars. Go to the Apple Store and look at the $1999 15" Powerbook and add a superdrive, a $200 increase.

jon

[Mord]

they didn't do that when florida was hit...

60,000+ people did not die in florida.


back OT this is very good news i know a few people that may get one of these.

[macidiot]

About friggin time ;) I don't know how many times I've heard "osx is way cool but macs are too expensive" or "macs are nice, but I can get a dell for $500."

Curiously, sounds pretty much how I said Apple should do a cheap headless back when the G5 iMac came out. Basically, a new iMac without the display and flipped on its side. Though I did spec it with a G5 and bumped the price to $650 or so. Nice to know I still have a decent idea of component pricing.

Thing is, is this aimed at switchers or emac buyers? One would think with the slow processor, its for the latter. As much as I applaud Apple for finally doing a headless iMac(if the rumor is true...but Think Secret is pretty reliable), I think they should put a G5 in it, even if it bumps the cost to $650. It would still be half the price of an iMac and not be obsolete in, oh, 2003. :rolleyes: A small $650 G5 machine would be pretty compelling to anyone. I'm thinking they don't want to kill iMac sales. Then again, the config they are talking about sounds like it would be very appealing to corporate IT, at least the few that look at macs for general purpose computing.

[budugu]

Yes but that's part of going the Apple route. They've built machines with soldered in processors and video in the past when PC manufacturers were building stuff out of a modular bucket of parts that were built in large factories in China by subcontractors that plug into industry standard sockets. Apple is about making healthy margins per component, and their customer-base will support that because they support Apple's existence regardless of whether or not their hardware at every pricepoint is bleeding edge.
The only people that compare the 2 are people who cross shop or are platform agnostic

I am pretty amazed at some damn corporation or an individual (taking the highest pay in the whole hitech sector)at the expense of "YOU" as a consumer is totally ok! I think Emperors of yester years would envy this. All Apple products are made in CHINA and sticking that they are designed in californa does not justify overpricing! And btw i donot think apple would ever volunteer to support your existence. I am not fighting apple's right to do waht ever they want nor your right to support it at any cost. All i was saying in response to some who asked what should apple do? i was just replying that rather than pulling such a stunt (if it were to be true),it will be better to give people more choice with the existing lines. May be i am one of those who does not care much about the platform (i regularly program in Win, OSX & Solaris).

Given all this, unless OSX becomes stable and matured no one is going to adopt it in the industry that is for sure and they are not definitely inerested in whether apple survives or not. Even in our dept/univ there is a lot of code written for OS9 when we are trying to move to OSX, they release a new version of OSX that is not exactly compliant with the previous one and with tiger the things will again take a turn. Especially in univ like environments it is extremely painful to keep porting the code back and forth where it is not done completely professionally. At some point you donot care if it is the most prettiest thing, you want the damn thing to work. With tiger they want to go back HAL (hardware abstraction layer -win 2000 anyone?). OSX is a completely hacked version of FreeBSD and their rosy picture of interoperability with unixs is not all that true.

[Fredstar]

This will do amazing things for Apple, as others have said more developers/more software/more cross platform programs. Only good things!
If it looks like the pic earlier on in this thread our family will buy two :p, that is one stunning piece of kit and knowing Apple it will probs look something like that.
I hope to god they have a VGA output and maybe a vga-->dvi adapter soo most pc users already with a screen can just plug it in.
fingers crossed
I know so many people who don't want the crt display of the emac but can't justify spending too much on a imac and have a screen already

[Faraday]

You know, there was a time when I had nearly given up on MacRumors, just endless stories about security update this, dot point increment of that, but then today:

iTunes Musis Store for AUS (yay)
AND juicy new hardware rumors, the kind of thing, that if it's true, I imagine would send Steve into the most appocalyptic of rages.

Why can't there be more days like this ...

[pkradd]

OK. Everybody, stop hyperventilating.
This is a great idea and will bring in plenty of Windows users. Apple makes more money on CPUs then displays. I'm sure a choice of wide screen displays will be offered along with the computer. But, Apple doesn't need to "sell" them. If the buyer already has a display, fine. That's the whole idea. It will certainly be interesting as to the name it will have. An "i" is a given I'd say.
The specs ThinkSecret lists are probably 90% accurate. In the past they have never been completely right. But the site has been spot on in their general predicitions in the past.
It will be the "one more thing" from SJ during the Keynote. Too bad it leaked out, as it would freak out the audience if it was a surprise. Oh well. 12 days and counting (or thereabouts).

[scottkle]

If true, this is too amazing for words. Think about it ... a Mac that costs as much if not less than some iPods. Any PC switcher could hook it up to an old monitor (or buy a cinema display if that's where the road takes them) and finally get to enjoy everything Mac users have known for 20 years ... that these computers rock -- That we (for now) have no fears about viruses.

If you've been to an Apple store, you've seen all those people who are so excited to even touch a Mac. And I have friends that just can't justify the price. No, this is not for die-hard gamers, but as we've seen, it's going to soon require a G5 for that anyhow. These are for regular folks. This is for the grandmas who want to see photos of their grandkids on a slideshow. This is for students to type up reports. This is for business people who want something to sync with a laptop for home use.

And for $499, we can't complain about anything. We can't complain about video cards. We can't complain about connections. We have to take it for what it's worth and a Mac at $499 is worth it.

Could it have more? Sure! Could it offer direct input of camera memory cards for people to upload photos? That would be sweet, but things like that .. the little extras ... are not what this is about. Those are the things that Apple should be thinking about for future iMacs.

For right now, let's concentrate on Apple getting marketshare up and get people realizing that the iPod is just the beginning of what Apple is all about.

[macidiot]

Sure, for driving it would be nice to all have the same car experience (not nessisarly the same car though)... but I also feel as though with computers, if to many people are to use Apple systems you start to get problems like pc's have. You'll get viruses being made, you'll get the people that try to start destroying it and you'll get the whole thing where theres 100 programs from different people that do the exact same thing.

I just like Apple the way it is right now, maybe they don't have a super huge market share or the most users, but I think thats nice... personaly I don't want the device that everyone uses. Apple says "Think different"... well I want to be different; So I choose a mac.

If everyone started using a mac, id try to find something else even though the software would probibly end up keeping me since final cut pro doesn't run on anything else.

You argument about virii makes some sense, but lets get real. Even if Apple doubled its market share, it would still be ~5%. As in, 90%+ would still be on windows. So, a virus will still be targeted to windows for maximum damage (not to mention ease of creation and execution). And, your "exclusiveness" of owning a mac would still be there. You'd still be "thinking different."

btw, back in the 90's when Apple had 20%+ marketshare, Macs were still largely hack-proof and immune to virii. Granted, things were a lot simpler back then but Windows hacking/virii still outnumbered mac by something like 100-1. Apple would have to incorporate major security holes into the OS (like melding safari or mail into the kernel or something) and achieve something like 40% marketshare for major hacking/virii to start happening. And believe me, if Apple got anywhere near 40% marketshare, they wouldn't give a rats a** about losing "exclusive" status. They would probably be concerned about getting more attention from hackers, but its probably a problem they would love to have if it was due to big marketshare. Jobs would be concerned, but the billions his Apple stock would be worth would probably lessen the pain. ;)

[slipper]

Kinda late to this thread, and its an awesome idea. The thing is, if this is a reliable rumor, they must be developing a low end display also, possibly filling the missing 17" monitor in their line-up.

On the other hand, i find it hard to accept the idea that it will be in the iMac line-up. Its obviously geared towards the cheap asses like me, it sounds like it should be in the eMac line-up.

If it ends up being a part of the iMac line-up, i dont like the direction Steve Jobs is going. Earlier this year, they updated the Powermacs and discontinue single processor versions. Then they decide to update the iMacs but completely discontinue iMac sales until then. They surprise us with an amazing price point and a new G5 powered iMac. Now they reintroduce the single processor Powermacs after they realize how stupid it was to discontinue it. And then now they reintroduce another line of iMacs with G4 processors again.

It just doesnt make sense.

It would make sense to introduce it as a new eMac line or a completely new line.

[iostream.h]

I'd definitely get one to use as a music server!

[spaceballl]

This would make an amazing linux box...

[sub_version]

As to a name, especially if it has built in 802.11 capabilities, *especially* if it has built in media streaming to a connected stereo and/or TV... why not iMac Express?

[MacSA]

they didn't do that when florida was hit...



.....probably because there aren't 60,000 people dead in Florida and many thousands more missing .
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jamdr]

If this rumor is true, which it seems it likely will be to some degree, Apple needs to drop another model. Otherwise their model lineup will start to look like it did during the mid 90s when they offered like 20 different Performa computers. If there is a $500 Mac with similiar specs to an $800 Mac (the eMac), who would buy the eMac? And if the eMac is updated to a G5, who would buy an iMac (let alone the PowerBook)? I think Apple will drop either the eMac or iMac, and I'm guessing it won't be the iMac.

[slipper]

Wow, this makes me think. iPods all of a sudden seem like such a rip-off.

[The Man]

This will be marketed as "The perfect iPod companion."

[rdowns]

In my 2+ years on MR, I have heard the screams for a $499 headless Mac. Now we have a rumor that is credible (based on Think's past record) and it has started.

1.25 GHz is too slow- needs at least a 1.5 GHz.
32MB GPU- needs a 64 MB GPU.
40 GB HD is not enough give us an 80 GB.
Where is Bluetooth?
Combo drive - it needs a DVD burner.
256 MB RAM - OK, that is pathetic.

Give me a break people. This is an entry level/switcher/iPod halo effect machine designed to hit a price point and make some money for Apple and, hopefully, grow market share. In reality, I think it's designed to get people into the store where they can be up sold if need be.

No, Apple can't take a hit on profits and add better components. They are a business. What is the point of growing market share at the expense of making money? From a business perspective, none.

Apple sells a ton of these, what else do these users do to add to Apple's bottom line? IMO, little or nothing. It comes with all the software the user needs to get started and they likely have all the peripherals they need. It will likely last for years and the user will not need to spend any more money with Apple on their PC. Any money spent will likely go elsewhere for non-Apple peripherals and software. So what does Apple get? A small profit on a $499 box and a possible Mac sale in 4, 5, 6 years?

I only hope the market doesn't look at this rationally and drives my Apple stock to the magic number I'm looking for before I sell it. I'm a greedy bastard.

[madrobby]

Wouldn't a cheap-o model like this be very bad for the used Mac market? One part of owning a Mac is that you know you can get a good price when say offering it in ebay...

Anyway, I'm more interested in a new PowerBook, my TiBook is starting to look old... Personally I hope for a 12" PowerBook with backlit keyboard, or maybe the 13" widescreen rumors are true, even better. Don't care if G4 or G5 or whatever. Also speed-bumped PowerMacs... Here I come...

[sunilraman]

The description of this sounds a little like a mockup I did a month or two ago:

http://applepete.com/concepts/images/icentre.jpg

somebody needs to get jonathan ives on the phone right now and hire you straight away :o

dude that is awesome... this is exactly what my dad would be looking for especially if on the cost side it goes head-to-head with this windoze-taiwan-china rubbish (no offense to taiwan and china) :cool:

[MCCFR]

Last time I checked I didn't remember 60,000+ people dying in Flordia.

jon

Also, with the best will in the world, Florida is part of the largest, most developed economy on Earth. Some of the regions affected by Sunday's events barely have economies in the sense that we understand them in the industrialised Northern/Western hemispheres.

[gola]

The think secret report got a lot of things right, except for the fact that the reason it is headless is that it is _actually_ a media centre, and not meant as a regular computer. We will all buy it and connect it to our tvs and stereos (also wirelessly) and ipods. It will be the ipod-revolution all over again in the home-stereo/tv world.

[ChrisH3677]

The great thing about this for me is it has corporate value. Where all you need is a machine to run Office - which probably 60% of corporate machines only ever do - then this is an ideal alternative.

Me also thinks if they are trying to catch the Windows crowd and are including Appleworks, there'd have to be an update to it. Here's hoping.

[Mord]

it'll have a 167MHz bus, it's the only one that fits with the clock speed with a 7.5 multiplier.

[dontmatter]

hmm. don't know what I think. On the one hand, the worst case scenario is an embarassing flop that costs a chunk of change. On the other hand, that seems likely-apple is no dell.

The one thing I do know-this had better get it's own name. "i" has done very well for apple, and is as trusted and important a name as apple itself. But if this thing doesn't live up to the perceived quality, stylishness, power, etc. of the imac, ipod, ilife, suite.... bad news for apple. Other than that, go ahead, you're doing well enough, and stagnating enough, computer wise, to be able to afford to and have the need to try something very different.

[sPAULj]

Isn't it kind of obvious that they moved their display size to 20-inches 23-inches and 30-inches in order to have a bottem set of 12-inch 15-inch and 17-inch displays?

[narco]

Most people won't have to go to another store to get a display because they'll already have one.

Good point, didn't think of that. I still think the Apple store should carry some cheap displays. People would get turned off if they had to make two stops because you have to deal with salespeople who sell mostly PC's, most don't even know the basics of the Mac. It's comforting for consumers to know that they can get everything they need at one place, and it'll all work perfectly.

I'd really dig a 15" Aluminum Display; maybe for $500-$600; but then again, if Apple did that then it'd take away from the iMac sales. But then again, people said the same thing about the iPod mini and the iPod.

Who knows, but new hardware sounds exciting.

Fishes,
narco.

[Mord]

it'll cost about £360 in the uk which is a fair bit but still competitive.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

I am pretty amazed at some damn corporation or an individual (taking the highest pay in the whole hitech sector)at the expense of "YOU" as a consumer is totally ok! I think Emperors of yester years would envy this. All Apple products are made in CHINA and sticking that they are designed in californa does not justify overpricing! And btw i donot think apple would ever volunteer to support your existence. I am not fighting apple's right to do waht ever they want nor your right to support it at any cost. All i was saying in response to some who asked what should apple do? i was just replying that rather than pulling such a stunt (if it were to be true),it will be better to give people more choice with the existing lines. May be i am one of those who does not care much about the platform (i regularly program in Win, OSX & Solaris).

Let's put it this way budugu, when it comes down to the entire PC industry, name me one computer company that has themselves tied to "MY" best interests. Okay... now that we've solidified that factoid, let us consider that I'm a Mac enthusiast. I don't entirely "AGREE" with everything Apple does, yet I do believe that Apple has every right as a business to return a profit by the visions of their executive staff and in a way that is conducted in a business-like approach. I'm not a Slashdot zealot drinking the Kool-aid expecting everything to be free or handed to me at such razor thin margins that every company croaks under the weight of inability to be profitable.

Beyond that... you do have a choice. Buy a PC. There you go... you can run Linux on your Mac, you can run Linux on your PC. You can run Darwin (BSD) on either/or, or any flavor of BSD on a PC box, or if you're savvy enough... port your favorite BSD to Mac based off of what is available in Darwin. Sun has Solaris for PC. If they wanted to they could likely bring Solaris to Mac if it made sense to them. Odds are no... but it's not up to Apple to make that happen if they don't care for it to happen, understand? Apple makes their own hardware roadmap, their own software roadmap, and they're entitled to do as they see fit to remain a profitable venture and don't have to make anyone else profitable if it doesn't benefit them as a company. If you dislike their approach... Jobs is not holding a gun to your head telling you to buy Apple. Pure and simple.

Also... as far as where the Mac is built. I'm sorry to say this... who really cares? I'm an American, but the Industrial revolution came about in our favor because we had the resources to become a manufacturing powerhouse when noone else had the resources. We just came out of the Great Depression, there was tons of "CHEAP" labor working under less than desirable conditions. I'm not okaying anything... but the fact is, the world works in cycles and in America... that's where things are going. We're no longer going to be the superpower, and that's part of the passing of the guard. Tell everyone that buys at Wal Mart, Target, Best Buy, Circuit City, KMart, Sears, and other stores to quit buying Chinese goods and see what happens. Japanese and Korean cars and consumer goods. Want to throw up sanctions? Watch as the tarriffs come floating back in our face with more attached. Moral of the story... you aren't going to win, we've had our share in the spotlight. It's up to us as a country to find another way to bring profitability to manufacturing here. It's up to us as a country, our workforces, our executives, to find other profitable and capable methods to increase employment over here.


Taxes and Tarriffs?

It aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin't gonna work m'friend.

Apple does what they have to, to compete. At the razor thin margins that competition from Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, eMachines, and others exert by manufacturing their motherboards and other components overseas in China, Taiwan, Korea, etc. etc. or via subcontracting as Apple does and will continue to do (i.e. Foxconn, who also makes PC motherboards, I believe their optical drives come from overseas and have since the Mac was beige! What about the Toshiba drives in iPods? Didn't Samsung provide their LCD's for awhile? Tatung the old CRT's?)... it doesn't mean a hill of beans. You act like it changes anything? When GM is building cars in Canada, Mexico, Brazil (#1 mfg. in Brazil), and actually obtains engines for their Equinox and LaCrosse vehicles from GM factories in China. Kinda' makes the Toyota's from California and Kentucky, the Honda's from Ohio, the Isuzu and Subaru models from Indiana, and BMW and Mercedes from the Carolina's and Alabama look pretty dang good, eh? After all, the reason these companies elect to manufacture here is it's cheaper than doing so in their home markets. Hellfire to the bastions of non-nationalistic principles they are, eh?

It's a "GLOBAL" economy, it's a "GLOBAL" world, and I support Apple for being a company that makes a profit. That is after all... the American way... even if you have to go abroad to keep successful. Otherwise what is the flipping difference?!? If it's not someone working in a sweatshop overseas, it'll be an illegal alien on our shores building the machines in work environments that because of their lack of "legal" status, don't have to meet the ethical standards anyhow? Not like they'd want someone snooping into their factories to check anyhow, correct?

Given all this, unless OSX becomes stable and matured no one is going to adopt it in the industry that is for sure and they are not definitely inerested in whether apple survives or not. Even in our dept/univ there is a lot of code written for OS9 when we are trying to move to OSX, they release a new version of OSX that is not exactly compliant with the previous one and with tiger the things will again take a turn. Especially in univ like environments it is extremely painful to keep porting the code back and forth where it is not done completely professionally. At some point you donot care if it is the most prettiest thing, you want the damn thing to work. With tiger they want to go back HAL (hardware abstraction layer -win 2000 anyone?). OSX is a completely hacked version of FreeBSD and their rosy picture of interoperability with unixs is not all that true.

Once again... I care less about the industry, it is not my concern. That is Apple's concern, and if Apple wishes to reach and meet these markets then of course they will have to make it there by finding all of the necessary elements to make that happen. I'm merely looking at what is best for me... and that is I'm a Mac user, I like OS X, and OS X has Unix compatibility in some fashion. It's not to say that I really give a flying rat's tush whether or not I can run any unported BSD apps on my Mac. If someone ports it, I'll likely use it, but OS X in and of itself is merely using a UNIX foundation to build an OS off of. The fact that there's some semblance of a POSIX compliance (if there's even a laughable standard here) is merely an afterthought, and you *CAN* make it more compliant if you're savvy enough. Apple isn't in the UNIX market... they're in the Mac OS market. Get used to that idea. If it can run a Unix app... consider it a bonus. Hellfire to the Unix-heads that weren't flipping out because OS 9 wasn't Unix compatible out of the box. Where were you then? LoL

As far as I'm concerned... comparing OS X to Windows... it's not only stable, it's mature, and quite empowering. Considering that Linux isn't on the desktop, doesn't have the breakthrough applications to get there... it's not even a consideration. BSD and others? Even less so. If someone makes a killer app. for Linux, expect Apple to exploit it (port it). Just as they did Apache. Apple merely has to look out for Apple... if it benefits me, then I'm for it. I don't care about the margins on their end as they're entitled to a profit as long as I'm not being gouged. If I feel like the pricings are out of my reach... I won't buy. Why do you think I'm on a beige 9600 with a Sonnet processor upgrade? Think about it. LoL

[BWhaler]

I wonder how the PC Apologists and PC Shill Magazines Sucking on the Teet of MS/Dell/Intel/HP advertising dollars will try to take the wind out of Apple's sail after the announcement

I bet they will complain about:

1. CPU Speed
2. Lack of upgradability
3. GPU
4. Memory/Bus Speed

etc., etc., etc. The one thing they will be correct complaining about will be the extremely long delivery times.

And I bet 90% of the editors and apologists buy one anyway at that price point.

It's a bold move for Apple, but a very smart one. Apple needs to understand that to many people, even those who love their iPods, buying a Mac is risky. This low price point makes it an easier sell, a gateway drug into the Mac world if you will, and will allow a lot of people to make the switch or pick up an additional machine.

I think it's brilliant. But back to the initial point, the oligopoly and all of those that make their living off of the complexity of the Windows world will attack it out of the gate.

[d.f]

This is going to keep us busy for a while ;) ... after the enthusiasm and the blood rush settled down a bit... it is hard to think how this will pursuade people? ofcourse the there will be an initial knee jerk reaction, but more i think of it it will be the people who already have a mac (like us) that are going to buy it. The base model starting it at 500, any reasonable (minimum to run panther/tiger) would end up atleast at 600 (with out a monitor). There is no entry level monitor from apple anyway. I tried to hook up my powerbook with a cheap 200$ monitor, result was just hopeless graphics (worse than windows). With no way to upgrade, you are pretty much going to eat into imac and emac sales than get more people. no matter what ever 'wizardary' apple marketing can show, G4 is not a match for the P4. At 600 people get highend desktops (if you are lucky add a free flat panel), not an entry level computer.

leaving all the 64 bitness (unless G4 is going 64 too), what i donot get is that the demographic apple is targeting is hardly changing. most of the people buying into apple are for asthetic beauty (i donot want to start a flame war here i could be wrong!), and the point is lost once you have any 'outside' component that will not blend in. If you are talking of people wo are moving to macs because they cannot bear the malware on windows then it is the imac crowd. The botom line is that people will have to spend close to atleast 850 (computer+a decent monitor) bucks and get an half baked solution (with a very uncertain future) and would rather spend couple of hundred more and get a imac if they want a mac!

nevertheless apple slashing prices is good! After all this i might order it the day it appears!!

isee your point, but i think this is meant as a more 'swap-out' alterative for those with existing Monitors....

being a mac owner, i get asked all the time by work colleagues to rip tunes to their i-pods. people do seem to know that 'macs are simpler'.... this is a great marketing tool. and at such a cheap price (plus some clever Mghz myth style graphs), they could win a of of the 'i-pod generation...' IMO

[TheWereSloth]

I'm surprised more people haven't been arguing about what it will be named. My vote is for "miniMac"

As far as my obligatory unqualified and unrequested business opinion is concerned, I see Apple finally doubling it's market share over the next 2 years

[sunilraman]

I can't see Apple releasing this computer without some RAM expandability. It will probably be one of two things. 256 soldered to the logic board with 1 free slot for a total of 1.25 or two replaceable slots, one being filled by most likely a 256, total storage of 2 gigs.

jon

At the risk of sounding like Billy G back in the day when he said "640k of Ram is enough for everybody"....

I have gone nuts on my dad's ibook g4 933 mhz 256mb ram... umm.. if you just blink your eyes a few time while it *grinds* a bit, 256mb RAM with Panther 10.3++ is really not too bad...

And it surprisingly can handle photoshop + safari + illustrator + mail + isync + itunes ++ etc.... all running at once

For the windoze user, this windows-killer with 256mb ram is enough for everybody :)

Of course, once switchers find themselves completely hooked on it, dropping a 512mb piece into that additional slot will take them to cruising altitude. :D

i am just waiting to get a job i can actually hold on to for a while ( i have recently become too creative at times) :rolleyes:
then i can drop a nice 512mb piece into my dad's ibook g4 (to make a total of 640mb) and dropkick the 128mb piece currently in the slot

[HiRez]

Of course, if a product like this was introduced I'd be mighty tempted (since I have some "spare" displays)
I'm thinking that if the idea is to sort of "give these away" in order to rapidly adopt Windoze switchers and grab market share, they may not even be planning to offer monitors for it, figuring that most PC users will already probably have a separate monitor they can use with this device, if it has VGA/DVI. I worry about the RAM though, 256 MB is barely enough to boot OS X and run an app now, Tiger is sure to only make that worse. I think a cheap GPU (even 5200) would be fine for this model, assuming at least 32 MB of RAM to run Quartz Extreme. Is Core Image really that important for such a low-end machine?

It's an intriguing rumor, but I'll believe it when I see it. A few years ago I would have said it's insane, but the times along with Apple, they are a changin'...

[AdamZ]

The think secret report got a lot of things right, except for the fact that the reason it is headless is that it is _actually_ a media centre, and not meant as a regular computer. We will all buy it and connect it to our tvs and stereos (also wirelessly) and ipods. It will be the ipod-revolution all over again in the home-stereo/tv world.

I tried telling 'em!

[BillHarrison]

Awesome, simply awesome. First, let me say, I can GUARANTEE 2 of these machines sold, right now, the day of release. Second, I have had this running in the back of my mind for 2 years now, and I see apple has too!

You want specs on this new machine? They are on apples store already:

Ibook 12"

$999.00

Estimated Ship: Same business day

Free Shipping

1.2GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache @1.2GHz
12-inch TFT Displays
1024x768 resolution
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
30GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
AirPort Extreme built-in

Apple Credit Account -- payments
as low as $23 per month

Yep, just as I had thought myself. Why not take a laptop, with R&D already done, and pull the logic board. Remove LCD (200 $ im guessing) remove built in keyboard, more expensive 2.5" drive (we can fit a 3.5 no prob in a slightly thicker desktop), trackpad/mousepad, and call it a day!

What you get is a laptop for about half the laptop price (499$), that can simply be used as a slim desktop. Apple has little R&D to dump in it, because they already have 95% done. I am guessing 75% of the target audience already has a monitor, so Apple may not feel it necessary to offer a less expensive monitor. If they do, I predict a 15" screen in the 200-300$ price range.

I expect this machine to fully utilize Tiger, as releasing it so close to tiger with hamstringed tiger support would be treacherous. You MAY see slightly upgraded specs from what I see above, as I am not sure when the last revision was done on the Ibook. But I see this as a "desktop" Ibook more than a "Mini" Imac regardless of what they call it.

Just my .02

Bill

[switch2mac]

The target audience is said to be Windows users looking for a cheap, second PC. Amazing that they could be working on this for a year and we are just hearing about it.

If this is true (I hope so), than it might be a big hit, something like the Ipod. The problem with the ipod is that it is constantly out of stock.
They have probably been preparing everythin meticulously, maybe even producing?

First itunes (Windownees were surprised), then the ipod (Windownees starting to appreciate the apple-ideology) and now this mini-imac: windownees will take the step. (switching to apple will no longer be a "giant leap" but a "small step")

great thinking, but I do fear that people will wanna have a display with it. Maybe a display for the price of say... 400 euros/dollars?

Love it. What if they could include some Word in the package. That would really convince them.

[Mord]

now will this come in ipod mini colors or in imac white?

as for the gpu i recon they will go for a 5200, i wish they would dump that gpu and either get x300's or 9600's

[Fukui]

If this is true, then apple may be able to pick up corporate/edu sales better.
This should sell well in Japan too, and boost market share.
Its been way too long for this desktop, hopefully they would have a edu price like 449 or maybe 399... :eek:

They could sell bucket loads just to public libraries....

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

I tried telling 'em!

If it was a media center, as I noted prior:

1) There'd be a media center OS for it. I seriously doubt it at this juncture because I would figure Apple would be shrewd enough to build this capability into the OS rather than create a separate OS build. At which point, said features would likely have to be beta tested within the OS for all hardware platforms. That includes OS X Tiger. No features have materialized in Tiger, nor has anyone mentioned any late beta versions of Panther with "media-based" technologies included.

2) It'd have a Superdrive, not a Combo drive. Competing against DVR's and Media Center PC's in this segment would be suicide without one.

3) Even if it was... Apple would be "STUPID" not to include a VGA/DVI port along with let's say... S-Video, Component out, and maybe some form of inputs. Therefore it'd also be a desktop Mac. ::gasp:: Why pigeonhole into one segment when it's obvious that meeting both with one piece of hardware is "Killing 2 birds with one stone."?!?

Without a media center-based OS GUI that's like using a "component" more than a big cumbersome OS... this *WILL* fail. For the amount of people that struggle to set the clocks on their VCR's, I can't see giving them a great big sea of exploration and expecting them to not get frustrated in-store and move over to a simpler unit.

I don't see OS X as a whole being near as competitive at this juncture with a Media Center PC, and I don't think that Microsoft's PC's even will compete with settop cable boxes, DSS dishes, and other standalone DVR components that cost less or similar but offer less headache in learning to operate the whole shebang. In fact... I can see a much smaller client based off of a SymbianOS being more effective here than something running Mac OS. If that's the case... then why would it have specs remotely this monstrous? Apple could make a settop using SymbianOS or something based out of Newton, Palm, QNX, iPod, or some other operating system that's more favorable than Mac OS or Microsoft's Media Center approach. It'd be doubtful if we'd even see a PowerPC involved... after all, does iPod use one?

I also fear what Apple does if this thing truly works on a "less-wired" premise. Look up the information on ReplayTV's court hearings with the MPAA. I think you'll find a fly in your ointment on this one.

I don't think the specs hold water for your argument. If it had a DVD-recorder drive, I could say "YES". Apple however continues to support the Superdrive specification only. Until they fully support other specifications in entirety... I don't see them deviating from Pioneer's Superdrives. Whereas I can buy a Samsung 16x for $69 that's Dual-Layer compatible from Micro Center as we speak... I don't think Apple could leverage this without deploying similar mechanisms in all of their machines simultaneously, or otherwise face diminishing their other products/lines values.

If this is anything... I think it's a desktop. Sorry.

[iJed]

I'll almost certainly buy this. I would really prefer it to have a higher spec G5 version too but this is better than nothing. However at this price I'll be able to upgrade every year :D

[loneAzdgari]

it'll cost about £360 in the uk which is a fair bit but still competitive.

Actually the conversion rate is around £260. Apple will probably boost that to £300 or £325. No idea where that £360 came from :confused:

[edesignuk]

Actually the conversion rate is around £260. Apple will probably boost that to £300 or £325. No idea where that £360 came from :confused:
Conversion rate is one thing. Rip-off rate is another. We all know there is a MASSIVE gap between prices converted from US$, and what we actually have to pay for stuff.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this sell for maybe even £400 even if in the US it's $500.

[Mord]

the 40GB ipod photo costs $499 in america and £360 here ;)

[wjdennen]

This sounds kind of like a set-top box. No?

[pkscout]

The think secret report got a lot of things right, except for the fact that the reason it is headless is that it is _actually_ a media centre, and not meant as a regular computer. We will all buy it and connect it to our tvs and stereos (also wirelessly) and ipods. It will be the ipod-revolution all over again in the home-stereo/tv world.

Just to throw a little more fuel on this fire...

I've been looking at an HD1000 (http://www.rokulabs.com/products/hd1000/index.php) from RokuLabs. In conjunction with that research, I've been hanging out on their user forums. They have just released the 2.0 beta software for this product. One of the things they talked about was adding iTunes playback similar to how their Soundbridge line works (i.e via DAAP). Turns out they aren't going to be able to do that with the HD1000 (they're looking an Universal Plug and Play AV). One of the reasons they can't do DAAP on the HD1000 (at least according to the Roku engineer who posted) is because Apple wouldn't give them a license for DAAP on the HD1000 (even though they have one for the Soundbridge units). If you look at the HD1000, it is sort of a media center distribution unit. So if the engineer was right about Apple not licensing DAAP for the HD1000, maybe that's because Apple is about to release their own unit with similar features.

Obviously this is nothing more than speculation built on a rumor and a third hand account of licensing discussions, but I thought I'd share. :D

[loneAzdgari]

the 40GB ipod photo costs $499 in america and £360 here ;)

If you had said that in the first place I wouldn't have needed to ask. :rolleyes:

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if it was around £400 either. Especially with the added bulk of the shipment compared to an iPod Photo

[childlost]

it could cost a bit more, but it would sell like peanuts.

[Poff]

I won't buy this, as I have no use for it.

I can, however, see its potential.

Apple has been building a great reputation with the iPod over the last years. There has been a lot of talk about the "halo"-effect, but I believe that it has been too expensive. So cost/risk matters have more or less jammed the potential effect. Maybe this could turn things around?

if it does alter the current state of things, this could be big for apple. As I said, apple has been building a great rep. The Halo-effect has been lurking for some time now. If this makes success for Apple, I'm guessing the market might explode!

At least I know what I'm going to recommend to my mom if she ever desires a new computer. (I'm writing on her windows 98 computer right now.) She is in the market for a new screen soon. If Apple comes out with a cheap VGA-screen to compliment their new iMac, I know what I'll recommend.. :)

[ncbill]

iBook logic board (architecturally, if not the exact board, so the same VRAM limits)

3.5" hard drive (like the iMac G5)

optical slot-loading drive (like the iMac G5)

Superdrive? Expensive if you want it ($200), same form factor as the iMac G5.

Of course, some tech sites will be taking these apart the day they are available, maybe they'll find a third-party DVD-R mechanism that will work cheaper than Apple's solution.

[Poff]

it could cost a bit more, but it would sell like peanuts.

Actually, the processor costs roughly the same as a G4 from what I gather. I'm guessing there's two reasons for not making a G5-version.

First one is segmentation. You wouldn't want a potential G5 iMac buyer to go buy a Headless iMac and a generic brand flatscreen.

Second, the G5 gets hot. It would need more cooling and stuff, and probably a bigger case. Apple seems to go small design here.

[Stella]

This sounds like a good 'entertainment' box - play iTunes, digital video recorder and the like.

Hope this machine has optical out so it'll support surround sound speakers... otherwise it'll be a little lame.

[Poff]

iBook logic board (architecturally, if not the exact board, so the same VRAM limits)

3.5" hard drive (like the iMac G5)

optical slot-loading drive (like the iMac G5)

Superdrive? Expensive if you want it ($200), same form factor as the iMac G5.

Of course, some tech sites will be taking these apart the day they are available, maybe they'll find a third-party DVD-R mechanism that will work cheaper than Apple's solution.

I don't think so. The components in an iBook is expensive because they are to be small and require less power. Why would Apple want to up the cost of the new iMac just of lazyness. As said in the article, designing a bare-bones PC is not at all rocket science.

[pkradd]

Geez, it has nothing to do with "lazyness" s/b/ laziness (use spell check or are you lazy?) The only things in the iBook that are "smaller" are the hard-drive, keyboard and power supply. Everything else is basically standard issue.
Apple really can't come out with a "cheap" screen. They have to buy from an OEM and the quantities they order are no way in the range of a Dell or even HP. And, they won't ever come out with a second-rate LCD anyway. Anyway, it's the CPU that is the money-maker, not the display screen. Costs will stay down because they will be made at the same locations the iBooks are made. Component prices are at a all time low (except memory chips which go up and down). And Moto...er, Freescale will gladly supply lots of new G4 chips at a good price.
This is going to be hailed by Wall Street and the analysts at the January 12 conference call. Look for Apple shares to go up to the low 70s next week in anticipation.
One other thing. It's possible Apple won't introduce the iPod Flash at MWSF. I can see a special event in February. But if they do at MW, we'll be seeing at least 3 new hardware products methinks:

Headless iMac
Flash iPod
Asteroid

[fixyourthinking]

I really wish Apple would just reintroduce the old iMac G4 LCD sans monitor.

The dome was attractive and would be even more so in an aluminum enclosure. Have a VESA mount to mount a 17", 20", or 23" display (sold seperately) or just have it next to it.

This would look VERY futuristic and be quite useful.

For all - this won't appeal too much to anyone on the PC side unless it has 64MB of video minimum. I just hope it's an ATI chipset.

I just hope this isn't an ugly slab like the LCIII's.

From the description, this sounds like an iBook without the LCD in a little bit more rigid case and an integrated power supply ... kinda blah.

Two domes on a desktop would definitely appeal to the male psyche.

[BillHarrison]

I don't think so. The components in an iBook is expensive because they are to be small and require less power. Why would Apple want to up the cost of the new iMac just of lazyness. As said in the article, designing a bare-bones PC is not at all rocket science.

No no no, all wrong! First of all, an Ibook is only 999$ on apples site, currently ONE of the least expensive brand new macs you can lay your hands on. So I do not see where you get the idea that "Ibook" components are expensive. Yes, some are, but those that are are the "laptop" components. LCD, Trackpad, 2.5" hd, battery pack, etc, all of which go byebye in this "New" machine.

Not to mention, the R&D is already done: Boards are in production, schematics laid out, bugs worked out, so on and so on! May it be a variation on this board, or an exact copy? Perhaps, maybe not! I can't say for sure. But it really does make sense on SEVERAL levels to do it this way. The actual logic board on an Ibook I would guess costs little or no more to make than the logic board on anything else.

Bill

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

No no no, all wrong! First of all, an Ibook is only 999$ on apples site, currently ONE of the least expensive brand new macs you can lay your hands on. So I do not see where you get the idea that "Ibook" components are expensive. Yes, some are, but those that are are the "laptop" components. LCD, Trackpad, 2.5" hd, battery pack, etc, all of which go byebye in this "New" machine.

Not to mention, the R&D is already done: Boards are in production, schematics laid out, bugs worked out, so on and so on! May it be a variation on this board, or an exact copy? Perhaps, maybe not! I can't say for sure. But it really does make sense on SEVERAL levels to do it this way. The actual logic board on an Ibook I would guess costs little or no more to make than the logic board on anything else.

Bill

Well said. ;) I was going to make a post but this puts it more succinctly. :D

[fixyourthinking]

they didn't do that when florida was hit...

cool imac idea though....
i would be very suprised.
maybe sugar is a codename for the box. it sounds more like an entertainment device to me... maybe the missing link with airport express, it could hook up to your TV or something? :rolleyes:

They can take a tax writeoff for the downtime on the front page, the minimalist time to create it, etc etc and for the contributions to charity if they do some sort of matching.

I imagine they will need it after the January Quarter is over - it's looking like Apple may report their best sales ever.

That said - Apple has always been awesome when it comes to issues of the heart.

Let me just say, that 60,000+ lives is no where NEAR 100 lives and 20 Billion in florida damage. While my comment may seem insincere - I think yours took the cake.

;-)

[pkradd]

The PC crowd is not interested in design per se as much as cost. A dome is out of the question.... much harder to manufacture then a "slab". Anyway, the Dome iMac - I have one, was not really a barn burner. Many people just didn't like the way it looked.
Apple will be on the right track with a simple, attractive CPU at a low price point. Heck, Dell sells zillions of ugly CPUs every month. The market doesn't care. Apple knows that.
This will enable Apple to really "sell" the OS and iApps as well. A completely new ad campaign stressing ease of use would be a welcome change.

[Poff]

For all - this won't appeal too much to anyone on the PC side unless it has 64MB of video minimum. I just hope it's an ATI chipset.

Most people on the PC-side don't even know what video memory is. Most computer users use their computers to write an assignment or a little letter in Word, surf the internet or check their weekly schedule on it's learning or some other university web-service.

Of all my friends, I can only think of 5 or 6 who would think about vid ram, all the others I know wouldn't know the difference between that and a hdd.

[Arcus]

Holy smokes this is awsome if true. My girlfriend has been wanting a Mac for a long time. She keeps hogging my iBook. Now I can get her one all to herself.This is assuming that DVI and VGA output will be standard, so she can use her existing monitor.

Go Apple!!!

[wrldwzrd89]

I really wish Apple would just reintroduce the old iMac G4 LCD sans monitor.

The dome was attractive and would be even more so in an aluminum enclosure. Have a VESA mount to mount a 17", 20", or 23" display (sold seperately) or just have it next to it.

This would look VERY futuristic and be quite useful.

For all - this won't appeal too much to anyone on the PC side unless it has 64MB of video minimum. I just hope it's an ATI chipset.

I just hope this isn't an ugly slab like the LCIII's.

From the description, this sounds like an iBook without the LCD in a little bit more rigid case and an integrated power supply ... kinda blah.

Two domes on a desktop would definitely appeal to the male psyche.
I hate to break it to you, but none of this is going to happen.

Re-introduction of iMac G4 form-factor? No way.
64 MB of VRAM? Unlikely, since this is probably an iBook derivative - 32 MB of VRAM seems highly likely.
ATI chipset? Also unlikely. After all, nVidia's cards are actually better at OpenGL than ATI's, and we all know that OpenGL is all that Macs use (no DirectX).
To me, it sounds like a computer-in-a-box: an iBook converted to a desktop form factor combined with some features from other Apple lines.
Two domes on a desktop? Are you out of your mind? Apple isn't THAT stupid to ignore their female customers.

[Poff]

No no no, all wrong! First of all, an Ibook is only 999$ on apples site, currently ONE of the least expensive brand new macs you can lay your hands on. So I do not see where you get the idea that "Ibook" components are expensive. Yes, some are, but those that are are the "laptop" components. LCD, Trackpad, 2.5" hd, battery pack, etc, all of which go byebye in this "New" machine.

Not to mention, the R&D is already done: Boards are in production, schematics laid out, bugs worked out, so on and so on! May it be a variation on this board, or an exact copy? Perhaps, maybe not! I can't say for sure. But it really does make sense on SEVERAL levels to do it this way. The actual logic board on an Ibook I would guess costs little or no more to make than the logic board on anything else.

Bill

Guess I didn't think about swapping all the other components. I guess a low-power processor doesn't cost that much more than an ordinary one. At least since they woulnd't have to buy two different procs, but could buy one large quantity of one single proc.

So in short, I was wrong. :)

[BJNY]

iMac mini. Maybe :)

The new eMac, perhaps?

[BillHarrison]

Guess I didn't think about swapping all the other components. I guess a low-power processor doesn't cost that much more than an ordinary one. At least since they woulnd't have to buy two different procs, but could buy one large quantity of one single proc.

So in short, I was wrong. :)

Exactly, and the same point on the logic board components, since they are not buying "New Minimac" specific components, they can get even cheaper "Ibook" parts. My guess is that this machine will run neck and neck with the ibooks on upgrades etc. What ya see in an Ibook, you will find in the "MiniMac"

It really puts Apple in the market BIGTIME, and here is a mac I can truly recommend to my current "PC" using friends when upgrade time comes. Plenty powerful enough for most peoples day to day use, and a great market share creator!

[zelmo]

Very cool if true. Whine at will about the RAM, GPU, hard drive, BT, FW800, et al, but I'm still using my original iMac G4 800 with a 60GB hdd and 512MB RAM. It does everything I need, and really only squeals loud at me when I play too much with iDVD or Garageband. This is the kind of entry level headless cheap Mac switchers will buy. With Safari, Apple Works and (a stripped down) iLife, it has most of the software people will really need, except for Keynote (unless Apple puts Keynote 2 in the all new iWork office suite!).

Now, if they drop the price of the 20" Cinema Display to a more competitive $799, or at least offer a 17" version for about $499...

Go, Apple!

[Poff]

or at least offer a 17" version for about $499...

!!!

that would be great! Apple always seems to be way ahead of the customers, but dropping 17" when people still buy 15"ers is a little extreme imo.

A 17" lcd might just be cheap enough for people to get it. All together it would cost almost the same as a 17" G5 iMac, but when you needed a new computer, you would get to keep the old screen.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Guess I didn't think about swapping all the other components. I guess a low-power processor doesn't cost that much more than an ordinary one. At least since they woulnd't have to buy two different procs, but could buy one large quantity of one single proc.

The only reason one took more of a power draw was it was more inefficient. There has been times when the more efficient processor was also significantly faster too. Usually getting less heat/power draw is usually achieved through a smaller die size and/or less transistors via processor revisions; which also can be less costly to produce assuming you get decent yields. The G4's (both low power and higher power) has been out on the market for so long that if Freescale isn't getting these things out of the factory like clockwork the company should be in total shambles. LoL Not that they're not in a curious position with regards to the future roadmap for the desktop market. If that's even a consideration.

Now if they announce the above-rumored machine with the new dual core chipset that Freescale's reportedly working on... well... it could be more costly. I just HIGHLY doubt we'll see that in this level of a machine/pricepoint. Maybe as an interim for the Powerbooks and maybe as an eMac upgrade based off of the Powerbook boards. That'd create a bit of breathing room between the eMac and iMac and also between the Powerbook and iBook until Apple can stuff faster G5's in the desktops and iMac, get cooler G5's for the Powerbook, and then trickle them to the new eMacs too... assuming the eMac sticks around if the above rumored headless unit holds true. After all, the iMac G5 is sold in an education-based configuration without an optical drive if I recall, correct? There's very little market for this in the consumer sector... but the consumer sector could do very well with a low-cost headless desktop, i.e. similar to the old Mac LC. Perhaps called the iMac LC to play off two of the most successful desktop platforms in Apple's history?

So in short, I was wrong. :)

We all make mistakes. :) S'all good. I'm not perfect either. :D Part of being human.

[wrldwzrd89]

Very cool if true. Whine at will about the RAM, GPU, hard drive, BT, FW800, et al, but I'm still using my original iMac G4 800 with a 60GB hdd and 512MB RAM. It does everything I need, and really only squeals loud at me when I play too much with iDVD or Garageband. This is the kind of entry level headless cheap Mac switchers will buy. With Safari, Apple Works and (a stripped down) iLife, it has most of the software people will really need, except for Keynote (unless Apple puts Keynote 2 in the all new iWork office suite!).

Now, if they drop the price of the 20" Cinema Display to a more competitive $799, or at least offer a 17" version for about $499...

Go, Apple!
To me it's obvious why iDVD was stripped - it's of little use on a computer that lacks a SuperDrive.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

To me it's obvious why iDVD was stripped - it's of little use on a computer that lacks a SuperDrive.

I think he understood that. ;)

[Chomolungma]

For those of us that need portability, without the price of a notebook this could be an answer!

What? :D

I guess a few of us here are use to carry 10 lbs Dell bricks around with them. :D

-chome

[1macker1]

WOW, i think this is where they should change their webpage to "Hell has froze over" a mac for 500 is sweet.

Most people **me included** don't need a dual G5 with 4G of ram.:)

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

What? :D

I guess a few of us here are use to carry 10 lbs Dell bricks around with them. :D

-chome

Who needs Tony Little, eh? :D You're probably more bulked up than the Governor of California? :D Better Body Basics... by Michael Dell. ;)

[zelmo]

I think he understood that. ;)

Yup, I did. I also agree with Apple on the decision. Most "normal" folks I know would never use a DVD burner. Most folks I know who would want one would not be interested in this computer as configured.

I think this would be a great move by Apple, especially if they offer a "switcher" program that helps people easily move their PC files over to the Mac.

[iProbot]

eMac = RIP

iMac mini = new educational system

I'll wait for the PowerMac mini :D

[Littleodie914]

Does anybody else see this as a sign of less expensive displays? Surely Apple doesn't expect a switcher to walk into an Apple Store and take home this new $499 box hitched to a $1299 display.

Regardless, I can think of three people I know who will jump all over this. They're in love with their iPods, sick of Windows, but not willing to pop $1500 for a nice iMac G5.

-DrewHeh... Considering there are 5 pages of posts already and I'm quoting you from page 2, changes are this has already been responded to...

But I think that since Apple's aiming for the PC market, they're going to assume that most people already have monitors hooked up to their PC's. Plus, if people do buy one of these headless doohickeys, why not just buy a cheap $100 CRT for it?

[agentmouthwash]

damn, I gotta buy some more Apple stock!

[broken_keyboard]

If this doesn't get the marketshare back up, nothing ever will.

I'll be interested to see what it looks like - will the Keynote be webcast live this year? C'mon Apple, show of the strength of your servers by doing a live broadcast. :)

[wrldwzrd89]

Heh... Considering there are 5 pages of posts already and I'm quoting you from page 2, changes are this has already been responded to...

But I think that since Apple's aiming for the PC market, they're going to assume that most people already have monitors hooked up to their PC's. Plus, if people do buy one of these headless doohickeys, why not just buy a cheap $100 CRT for it?
I agree with you on both points. Apple might also be targeting existing Mac users who would use this thing as a miniature server.

[Les Kern]

Reminds me of my first "true" Mac, an LCII, purchased without a monitor for $1,100 (a DEAL then). Even though I was using a Plus for years, this machine made me the Mac user I am today.
If this is true and comes to pass, I'll order one for my daughter. And I think it could be a real hit. Maybe get some of the mindless masses to get off that PC bandwagon-to-hell. If Apple keeps the "regular" VGA monitor port, we just may see this as the biggest Apple product ever launched, as the folks with dead or dying PC's will seriously consider the Mac. They'll need Appleworks on it, and of course iLife. Forget the upgradeability. Who cares. Maybe Apple's target are those millions who NEVER upgrade. The only thing that I am uncomfortable with is the fact Apple may initially undercut their sale of the higher-end units that generate huge profit. BUT, as we know from history, it's all about market share. Get folks on board, then sooner or later lots of folks will pony up the bucks to get a decked out G5 tower like I did.
It's all good... in the end.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Wouldnt a used powermac be a much better deal? A 1.25 G4 powermac should be a bargain these days and gives you total expansion. Plus you can still make that machine go faster with cpu upgrades. G4s arent any cheaper then G5s and maybe more unless moto cut prices to sell some G4s. Plus you are selling a computer at pod prices??? smells fishy to me.

[Mord]

for the gpu to a pc user anything nvidea or ati will look good, on the pc side anything in the price range has crappy intel extreme ****.

[wrldwzrd89]

for the gpu to a pc user anything nvidea or ati will look good, on the pc side anything in the price range has crappy intel extreme ****.
Either that or Savage S3 integrated graphics. I'm sure there are other integrated graphics chipsets in use - I just don't know their names.

[macFanDave]

While it's probably profitable for Apple to make a headless iMac with technology that is 2-4 years old, the revenue they would make on each machine would probably be small. Unless someone was odd enough to go cheap for this rumored box and splurge for a Cinema Display at $1299 on up, Apple will just score a market share gain rather than real profit. (If you see that guy driving the Maserati with the Toyota Echo engine, tell him about this deal.) This could prove to be a wise ploy in the long run.

The downside I see is if this computer cannibalizes sales from people that might otherwise buy iMacs or iBooks. On the other hand, if it takes off with an unintended audience like people who want to set up render farms, homemade Xgrid-powered supercomputers or ISP's, it could really be a big winner if it is coupled with projected sales to the intended market.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Yup, I did. I also agree with Apple on the decision. Most "normal" folks I know would never use a DVD burner. Most folks I know who would want one would not be interested in this computer as configured.

I think this would be a great move by Apple, especially if they offer a "switcher" program that helps people easily move their PC files over to the Mac.

Agreed. I'm a Mac user since... well... let's not go there. LoL I've got a 9600 with a 700 Mhz. G4 upgrade. For the $ spent to upgrade to a newer machine, I'm looking at $500+ for a used G4 733 desktop (either DA or QuickSilver) with no warranty from Apple to speak of. Spec-wise... the used machine isn't much different than this proposed machine, although the processor is 1/2 as fast compared to the proposed new low-cost headless desktop. Graphics-wise... the older machines can still be upgraded with newer 4x AGP cards yet I don't really care because the older system's I/O bottlenecks will likely not handle much more than what is thrown at it via 4x AGP, and I'm not a gamer and it's not going to be CoreImage compatible "in full" (it'll still work, just degraded rather than almost realtime) either-way you look at it.

Processor-wise, you can upgrade the old machines up to comparable to one of these "rumored" new units... but you're looking at probably another $499 on top of the cost of the $500 to obtain the machine. At which point... why not buy the 1.8 Ghz. single-processor G5 which is faster, just as upgradable, and a much better value?!? Anything more... and you're in the market for a new machine anyhow. Used makes very little sense for the total lack of depreciation these units go for.

So I think Apple is looking at the used sector and seeing the same ludicrous insanity I am. They want to increase marketshare, and diminish the bloated values of the older desktops so more "cheaper" hardware is available to more aptly "flood" the market with options. At somepoint the pricetag becomes ridiculous compared to the age of the unit, and Apple has seriously needed to cut this for yeeeeeeeeeeears as resale value on some of the hardware is beyond insane. Releasing a machine like this will cut the costs of the used machines as the market won't be as hot to trot for 3+ year old hardware that's half as fast as new units that sell for significantly less and can be upgraded yearly (get rid of the old, swap in another new unit) for about the cost of a processor upgrade, with all of the $ going into Apple's pocket... vs. Sonnet, Newer, etc.

It hurts the upgrade market, but that's only assuming that Apple's new "headless" system has no bearing on the used hardware market and everything continues to sell for "SIGNIFICANTLY" over-inflated pricetags. If this works out okay... highly upgradable Sawtooth 450 machines will be available for a song, vs. the $300+ we're looking at now. The cost of a 733 Quicksilver or DA G4 733 should drop to below the $499 pricepoint substantially because even though it's more upgradable persay, it requires a significant amount of $ to get it up to equal or surpass the "NEW" Apple unit, making the investment "questionable" at best in terms of value. Why buy a machine for $500 that's 1/2 as fast as a brand new unit with similar specs all around? Why not buy new, get the peace of mind that it's not run for x # of hours (new in box), and help make the market for used machines depreciate so that you could turn around and potentially buy a used G4 to upgrade for another alternative computer and get even more switchers in on ground level with older Mac hardware that's still capable but requires a bit more investment to get up to par? It helps Apple, and Sonnet and Gigapower and OWC and Newer and others will likely reap benefits of it too when a huge influx of cheap old hardware is sitting around that's just waiting to be upgrade?!? That includes us as the consumer, unless you're wanting to extort some poor soul on eBay out of his life savings so you can sell your G4 to buy a new G5. At which point... sorry, your days are numbered. ::fingers crossed, hoping:: ;) :D

[Dont Hurt Me]

This could be another platform for Apple to use ATi's very powerful 9200 or "extreme graphics of the fx5200". :eek: was there 1 word on graphics? Steve has been trying to kill off that CRT for years.

[thequicksilver]

I like the idea of this very much. Some of you are complaining about the specs, but come on - it's supposed to be a $499 computer. It's not supposed to be a Powermac. :D

I'm running a 1.07GHz iBook with 768MB of memory, and even before shoving the extra memory in, it was a solid performer with 10.3.3. This headless iMac would perform well, and for $499 there would finally be a compelling reason for the masses to choose a Mac. I agree that 256MB is a joke in the Powerbooks and iMacs (both in the middle to high end of computers in terms of price), but realistically in a bargain basement computer 256MB is decent.

For those asking for upgradeability, I'm compelled to ask - where are you going to buy a replacement G4 chip that runs faster than the supposed 1.25 GHz? As far as I was aware, you can't just buy G4s and G5s off a shelf like you can with Pentiums and Athlons… And if you can get them, would it be cost effective considering you can get the iMac with a G5 processor for $1299?

Fingers crossed here that Think Secret's track record holds up. This would be fantastic.

I'd also have to guess that this is the reason that the 17" displays were phased out. Expect Apple 17" regular (1280x960ish) and widescreen (1440x900) 'iDisplays' in white to come with these for perhaps an extra $399 or so.

Here's hoping the prices outside the US will be more realistic than recently…

[kcmac]

Well personaly in my own opinion, id never want to see something like that hit the shelf... I've always seen Apple computers as high end, expensive and I guess you could say exotic like a nice Porsche. For me personaly, having a product at that price range would be like Porsche making a car thats as cheap as a toyota. Good for the company? probibly, but I think that ruins the whole exotic idea.
I think this is what a lot of BMW people initially thought about the Mini Cooper. I was one of the first to get one here. The mechanics and other sales staff shunned them.

Now look at it more than 2 years (almost 3) later. They still have a backlog to fill.

A machine like this attracts people to the showroom. Gets you to looking at the other models. They would fly off the shelves.

Please Apple. Let this be true.

[Les Kern]

What is the point of growing market share at the expense of making money? From a business perspective, none.

Absolutely untrue, I'm sorry to say. History is loaded with corporations that LOST money for years to gain the market share, and it's considered a sound plan. Maybe the biggest example in my lifetime was the influx of Japanese cars in the 80's. (Yeah, I'm real old) They priced them so low a lot of models lost the company money. Today we know why they did it. It's not dumping; it's cutting to the bone but at the same time building a consumer base of users, who later stick with them... and upgrade.
What would be more valuable to Apple, a possible 10-20% market share, or another billion or three in the bank with the same product line? They'll take the market share.

[Dont Hurt Me]

You can get single 1.4,1.5 G4s and they have duallies. So those old old quicksilvers have room to grow in the future and i bet Moto gets the G4 a pinch higher before its over. This is why i say a used powermac is a better deal. This could be a way to get those pod carrying kids into Apples world. Other then games a G4 can do about everything.

(bias quicksilver owner)

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Wouldnt a used powermac be a much better deal? A 1.25 G4 powermac should be a bargain these days and gives you total expansion. Plus you can still make that machine go faster with cpu upgrades. G4s arent any cheaper then G5s and maybe more unless moto cut prices to sell some G4s. Plus you are selling a computer at pod prices??? smells fishy to me.

Ever price that 1.25 G4? You're looking at a machine that sells in G5 territory in terms of pricings, even on eBay, not counting your friendly refurbishing reseller that'll charge you $1,000 for some of these machines that are over a year old. Try the PowerMac G4 733 Quicksilver. That's over what... 2 years old? It's selling for more than this new "cheap" machine and it's half the freakin' speed! LoL To upgrade it to comparable speedwise... you're dropping another $499 for a 1.25+ G4 card. At which point... as I said earlier with regards to the MDD single-processor 1.2 G4... why not just buy a G5? Upgradability only breeds "value" when it's more cost-effective to upgrade than to buy a new unit in-full. If you don't have an existing unit to upgrade... this new $499 machine is the cat's meow. If you have an existing unit... by all means, upgrade, it's a better value.

Get it?

Apple needs to produce a machine like this to cut the values of "USED" older hardware. At which point... yes I do agree, some of the older hardware might be a better value. I stress "MIGHT" because it would have to likely be circa the same iteration that produced the motherboards for this new headless machine. Even older G4's have bottlenecks that later revision hardware fixed. Buying an old Sawtooth 450 to upgrade to 1.25 Ghz. and a comparable video card might not provide you with any better performance for the significant amount of $ thrown at it than buying the $499 less upgradable unit new in terms of overall "value". In another year when the costs of a processor upgrade for staid old G4 come down... Apple might have a G5 or dual-core G4 or dual-processor G4 in this low-end machine by then. That might be impossible to match with older hardware, unless you have a dual processor machine or buy a used G5 or iMac G5.

[Wonder Boy]

Oh god, a new G4 desktop. Why not give it at least a 1.5GHz G4?

could be worse. would you prefer a G3? i'm rocking a 500mhz and a 600mhz here at home. ANY G4 would make me smile.

PS. i love my g3's.

[MacNeXT]

YES! I will defenately buy one, I've been wanting such a thing for a long time, and I'm sure it will make a LOT of people switch. And it looks like an attractive system for office environments.

I think it will have on board video, just as a lot of other Small Form Factor PC's from Dell, HP etc. have. BUT, they often do have an AGP slot, albeit half height, which is a bit difficult to find high end cards for. I hope Apple will do the same. Maybe it will even have one or two PCI slots. On the other hand, if it doesn't have AGP, I will probably still buy it.

A single G4 is still fast enough for a lot of us, and HD and memory can always be expanded. I wonder: the current displays are maybe a bit too expensive to accompany it. Maybe Apple will add some lower end displays to their line up. And what about styling? If it will be white plastic, then the current styling of their displays doesn't fit.

Anyway, great news and I really hope it's true. I guess we will find out in January?

[billyboy]

This is nothing as subtle as a halo effect. This is going out into the streets and kidnapping Windows users and forcing them to withdraw $499 from the hole in the wall and frog marching them to the Apple Store.

If this iMac mini/iCentre is for real, it is what I have wanted ever since I can remember forking out €3000 on my 867MHz Powerbook 2 years ago. Almost a headless Powerbook, yeehah. Time to trade in for a slightly more beefy G4 than I have now and actually have enough to put towards a painless upgrade to that juicy lucy 20" Cinema display.

[Mord]

For those asking for upgradeability, I'm compelled to ask - where are you going to buy a replacement G4 chip that runs faster than the supposed 1.25 GHz? As far as I was aware, you can't just buy G4s and G5s off a shelf like you can with Pentiums and Athlons… And if you can get them, would it be cost effective considering you can get the iMac with a G5 processor for $1299?

www.powerlogix.com
www.sonnettech.com
www.gigadesigns.com
www.fastmac.com

upgrades up to dual 1.73GHz :P

[Wonder Boy]

Apple might also be targeting existing Mac users who would use this thing as a miniature server.

i'd be one of them.

[Dont Hurt Me]

as a owner of the quicksilver 733 thats been upgraded to a 1.4 i more then get it. But what is more of 5 year old cpu going to do for you that the 733 cant do except better frame rates on a few games?? nothing. I will admit i have not shopped around for used Macs but i would think with a little persistance..................... If Apple resorts to this then its clear to me they have hit a brick wall at IBM and Moto.

[broken_keyboard]

No DVD burner? If it can't burn their downloaded movies they won't want to buy it. Apple don't you know all young people are pirates.

[applekid]

Hmmmm, here comes the hardware rumors... Interesting...

They sure skimp on the RAM still. And the G4 isn't exactly the processor I want to see in my "headless" iMac. However, this is supposed to be seen as a "second computer."

Let me upgrade the graphics card, maybe a PCI slot or two, and maybe a processor upgrade. It'd be more like a real barebones computer then.

I'll have to look into getting this Mac and try to replace my Bondi Blue iMac in my room. It's time I retire it.

[Dont Hurt Me]

If Apple makes one of these machines it will all be soldered on with no upgrade path at all. count on that. Look at the history and its very clear Apple doesnt want people to upgrade Macs (excluding the powermac ). I guess this would be a good thing for new users but i would like to see a cube reborn and made with "ahem" modern GPUs and CPUs...etc.

[wrldwzrd89]

Hmmmm, here comes the hardware rumors... Interesting...

They sure skimp on the RAM still. And the G4 isn't exactly the processor I want to see in my "headless" iMac. However, this is supposed to be seen as a "second computer."

Let me upgrade the graphics card, maybe a PCI slot or two, and maybe a processor upgrade. It'd be more like a real barebones computer then.

I'll have to look into getting this Mac and try to replace my Bondi Blue iMac in my room. It's time I retire it.
Until Apple bumps the RAM in their other computers (particularly the iBook, but also all the others) to 512 MB minimum, this isn't going to happen.
This thing will be small enough that there won't be any room for a processor/graphics card upgrade nor any PCI slots.
That's the way I see it; I could be wrong...

[patseguin]

Yeah, I have no idea why they skimp on the RAM on ALL of their systems. Even the PM G5's don't come with enough. Why don't they just up the price a little and have better specs to advertise?

[ncbill]

I think Apple can make some decent money off this box.

Consider:

1. Logic board:

Variant of the current iBook board, less the circuits needed to drive the LCD but with DVI/VGA outputs (probably just DVI with an adapter)

Very similar architecture to the iBook board, but more room for layout, so "development" consisted of figuring out how to produce it at the cheapest possible price.

Cost: $150?

2. Hard drive: Does Apple even pay $40 for 80GB drives?

3. Optical: same combo drive as the iMac G5. Cost: $40?

4. RAM: Cheapest 256MB DDR RAM (same specs as the current eMac), $30?
(one open slot)

5. Case plastics, power supply, keyboard/mouse, packaging. $80?

Total cost to Apple: $350?

Nice margin for a "low-end" box.

[Poff]

No DVD burner? If it can't burn their downloaded movies they won't want to buy it. Apple don't you know all young people are pirates.

Nah.. most pirates would buy a better machine, I believe.

[DisturbedLen]

The idea of a $499 iMac is good, and I bet it will offer memory upgrades. Here is what I'd like to see in the future:

1) SVideo/Optical In/Out jacks. OR a FireWire external adapter with these to work with...
2) Apple Tivo-Like software. This software should be DirecTV, DishNetwork, Digital Cable friendly. It would be great to take this new headless iMac, and use with a basic DirecTV receiver, and have all of the benefits of TiVo, but Apple style... Less the $5.00 monthly fee.
3) Apple Remote Control (optional accessory). Would be a great compliment to AirTunes. Control tunes from your TV regardless of where music is hosted.

Personally, I think a so-called "Media Center Mac" is pointless. I don't think that the masses want to surf the net from their couch. It's just not the same. However, TiVo functionality, iTunes and iMovie integration seems natural.

I doubt Apple would release a $499 computer without considering offering a low-cost monitor.

[Philth]

I think if they want this to fly, they need to tie it into the iPods with all the advertising. Show it as a desktop solution that goes hand in hand for ripping, and syncing to the iPod. Then show that you can use Office on it and they'll sell quite a few.

If they try and sell them just as a cheap machine as an alternative to Windows, then people will start asking if its fast, will it beat out the inexpensive 3Ghz AMDs, what kind of 3D video, will it blow away everyone with awesome games, etc etc ..

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

as a owner of the quicksilver 733 thats been upgraded to a 1.4 i more then get it. But what is more of 5 year old cpu going to do for you that the 733 cant do except better frame rates on a few games?? nothing. I will admit i have not shopped around for used Macs but i would think with a little persistance..................... If Apple resorts to this then its clear to me they have hit a brick wall at IBM and Moto.

Ummm... try Photoshop (yes that includes Elements)? Try it runs OS X faster? Try... it'll be significantly zippier in any app you throw at it than a 733 G4? Try... it's more of a value for $499 than buying a 733 machine for $500+ and throwing another $400+ at it to make it comparable or exceed it in speed. If it wasn't worthwhile... why did you upgrade your 733 to a 1.4? Try for $900, I'm not too far away from a new G5 iMac that the QuickSilver machine can't touch (unless it's dual processor) without a video card upgrade (also another expense)?

Continue adding it all up... why not just buy a $1,499 single processor 1.8Ghz G5 with upgradable 8x AGP video? The 1.2 Ghz. G4's that aren't G5 upgradable are selling for $1,000 and can't match a 1.8 Ghz. G5 machine! LoL There's no value there. That's why this machine's launch might spell the dawn of value for used hardware... when used hardware finally depreciates to what it truly is worth. Until then... $499 for 1.4 Ghz. and similar video to a $500-600 733 Mhz. G4 Quicksilver that costs $400+ to get up to terms in processor speed? It makes no valuable sense unless you need significantly more RAM slots than this machine may hold, and unless you need to have PCI/AGP upgrades. At which point... this machine might not have been for you anyhow. ::gasp::

LoL

There's very little value in used hardware... and there won't be until things depreciate. Bottomline... this machine could help Apple in more ways than one.

[displaced]

I'll be hetting one ASAP :)

I have a trusty G3/500 kandy koloured (well, indigo) iMac. It's great for my 'digital lifestyle' (eww, hate that phrase) stuff -- photos, music, addy book, iSyncing to my bluetooth phone, etc. stuff. And I adore how OS X works. But it's just a little too slow for day-to-day web stuff. All my hard-core browsing and gaming takes place on my stupendously quick, but Windows-constrained PC.

I don't want yet another complete computer in the house. I have far too many already. However, I've got a gap under my PC's monitor shelf that'd be perfect for how this headless Mac sounds. Slide it in, hook up a KVM switch to my existing PC peripherals, and I'm sorted.

Not overly concerned about RAM, SuperDrive, etc. Just run a FireWire cable between my PC and iMac Mini, and use the PC's DVD-RW drive. Instant high-speed data transfer! I could then use the PC for what it's good for... err, games, really. And use the Mac for my day-to-day stuff.

All the important bits will be upgradeable anyway. If you can crack the case, you can upgrade RAM and hard disk with a bit of work, Best of all, I'll get to use OS X to the full. My little ol' iMac gets to keep its usefullness too. It's great for the rest of the family, and due to the Rendezvous (or whatever it's meant to be called these days) sharing, my existing libraries of media on the iMac will be instantly available.

Fingers crossed this is true. Think Secret seem to be pretty good historically...

[applejack]

I'm surprised more people haven't been arguing about what it will be named. My vote is for "miniMac"

Since it's headless, how about naming it "iChabod"? :rolleyes:

[iGary]

Apple has not had an "average consumer-" based Mac since the colored iMacs, which drew many people from the Windows world to switch.

They have been needing this, and I'd buy one for my partner in a heartbeat at that price.

[patseguin]

The idea of a $499 iMac is good, and I bet it will offer memory upgrades. Here is what I'd like to see in the future:

1) SVideo/Optical In/Out jacks. OR a FireWire external adapter with these to work with...
2) Apple Tivo-Like software. This software should be DirecTV, DishNetwork, Digital Cable friendly. It would be great to take this new headless iMac, and use with a basic DirecTV receiver, and have all of the benefits of TiVo, but Apple style... Less the $5.00 monthly fee.
3) Apple Remote Control (optional accessory). Would be a great compliment to AirTunes. Control tunes from your TV regardless of where music is hosted.

Personally, I think a so-called "Media Center Mac" is pointless. I don't think that the masses want to surf the net from their couch. It's just not the same. However, TiVo functionality, iTunes and iMovie integration seems natural.

I doubt Apple would release a $499 computer without considering offering a low-cost monitor.


I 100% agree with everything you said. It would be awesome if I could hook this baby up to my 50" Panasonic LCD TV

[SiliconAddict]

VCR's on on the outs man, let's all take a hit of digital. Digital Hub I mean. Just wait and see. #1 Record live television, (who wants to take up sys resources doing that on their Powerbook. As Steve said "We want DVR's built right into the gosh darn TV!" #2 Stream Music and Photos from any of the in house Macs, #3 Use to WATCH TV on your Mac. I got an old 15in iMac in the bedroom, connect via firewire. The replacement for Elgato Firewire device. Let's all be really forward thinking now. They pulled the darn quicktime stream!! Just watched it last week!

IMHO I'm doubting it. Could be wrong but... First off the TV market is still in flux. In the next 4-5 years you are going to see a total transition over to HDTV. At this point its still in the movement stages. Apple almost never moves into a market before its ready. Do you really think Apple would pounce on the set top market before the infrastructure is in place? HDTVs are finally starting to come down in price and are finally starting to really make inroads in replacing those outdated TVs sitting in people's homes. But there is still another couple of years before it hits critical mass.
Secondly in regards to DVR there is no set standard for how a show is recorded, how its played back, how and if it can be exported, etc. Consequently you have content providers getting their panties in a bunch over things like commercial skipping. Exporting of movies in HDTV format. With potential solutions from the US government in the next 5 years. (e.g. flags being embedded into programs that says what content can be recorded, what content can't, and what content has a time delay feature where after X time it can no longer be played.)
Again all of this is in flux. Apple may very well start the set top revolution like they did with the iPod however they aren't going to do it before all the pieces on the board are positioned just right.

[zelmo]

A few posts suggest that buying a used PowerMac with a viable upgrade path is a better deal than this proposed headless iMac, and they are correct. That being said, we need to remember that the target market for a device such as this is NOT the individual who would seriously pursue the idea of a used computer.
There are tons and tons of folks out there who never post on forums or care about opening up the case on their computer to look at it (much less add RAM or upgrade the GPU). They want to pull it off the shelf, take it home, plug in a monitor, power cord, and a modem. Use it. They will learn to enjoy a computing experience devoid of virii and spyware.

We can discuss the shortcomings of the specific spec's all we want. The fact remains, this is a good move by Apple, designed to get the iPod buyer to think about a Mac. We all know that, once introduced to the OS, people love the computer experience, and the vast majority will become Mac users for life. A low margin $500 Mac today equates to someone potentially buying a new Mac every 3-5 years for life? What's that worth to Apple?

For those who still prefer the used Mac market, thank Apple, because the introduction of this Mac will drive your prices down for you.

It's ALL good.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

If Apple makes one of these machines it will all be soldered on with no upgrade path at all. count on that. Look at the history and its very clear Apple doesnt want people to upgrade Macs (excluding the powermac ).

Agreed... but you know what the upgrade path of this machine is? Look at the pricetag man... $499. Can you not spring for another $499 machine in another year? LoL The costs of a decent speed bump in a G4 from a 733 to a 1.4 is $400+?!? LoL Basically Apple is finding another way to bring the cash back home rather than let other's eat their lunch and prevent them from selling new hardware en masse to the masses.

It'll work out for processor upgrade vendors if the older hardware depreciates as some will be able to snag older G4's for half the price they're at now reeeeeeeealllll soon assuming the market drops out from under the older hardware like it should. There's no value in spending 2x's the cost in upgrades when you can buy a throwaway with similar performance for 1/2 the cost.

I guess this would be a good thing for new users but i would like to see a cube reborn and made with "ahem" modern GPUs and CPUs...etc.

The cube had no market. It was too costly to manufacture, it had less upgradability than it's comparably spec'ed desktop hardware (of which it was almost identical to) and cost as much or more. It was a pretty fetish item that cost too much and had too little value and it sold accordingly. That is why it is no longer with us. Bang and Oluffsen-style design works for products that have a nice lonnnnnnnnnnng shelf life; like TV's and CD players that can hit the market and be comparable for 20 years. When it comes to computers that have a practical purpose and that outdate over a relatively short period, the only way to make it work is if you're selling for a fraction of the cost of your top of the line units. It's hard to upgrade a cube, and you can't upgrade one to near the level of the G4 desktops of the era, nor for as cheap. It looked pretty, but it had no value.

In contrast... this new machine will (assuming the rumor to be correct) be a cheap piece of hardware that costs less than an upgrade on an older machine to a similar level. It has much more value than spending $500+ for a 733 Quicksilver and $400+ for a processor upgrade. It costs about 1/3-1/2 of what it costs to buy a used 1.25 Ghz. G4 desktop and serves the needs of 90% of the people that want a machine like this in the first place who don't care about frame rates in games. Something that's got a decent amount of speed for surfing the web, running applications like Photoshop, Photoshop Elements, iTunes, Toast, iPhoto, etc. etc. It's not a gamers box, but it'll run some casual games "adequately". I'm not a gamer... so I don't care.

It'll cut the value of older hardware so that the pricepoints drop so that more older hardware will flood the market, excluding those with machines that are comparable in speed, have dual processors, or can be taken further via video upgrades and aren't hamstrung by bottlenecks on their logic board. At which point... you have to weigh the costs of upgrades vs. a brand new machine in terms of value. Buying two new $400+ 1.2 Ghz. G4's for a dual 800 G4 ($800+) at this juncture is looking to cost you more than if you save your cash and buy a new G5 with faster AGP graphics than you can obtain in your G4, SATA drives, no RAM bottleneck from the G4's memory controller, etc. etc. For a little bit more than the 1.8 single G5, you can have a dual processor G5 that'll smoke the aforementioned dual processor G4 easily.

[dongmin]

Let's stay on topic people, DROP the media center banter! That has nothing to do with this rumor.This rumor is simply about Apple repacking the iBook to be a desktop ipod companion. FOR UNDER $500!!!!!

About the whole monitor thing, the reason Apple won't sell a cheapy monitor for $400 or so is that if people want a complete solution, they can get it with the iMac:

iMac Mini G4 1.25 ghz PLUS 'cheap' Apple monitor: ~$900
iMac G5 1.6 ghz with 17" LCD, speakers, etc: $1300

Ok, so it's $400 more but you get LOT more computer. Also, there's the eMac for those looking for a really cheap complete solution.

Look people, this new Mac is all about getting people hooked on OS X and iLife. The idea is that once these people get used to using iLife and Panther/Tiger, they'll want to upgrade to faster (and more expensive) Macs to run higher-end apps like Final Cut and iDVD. A 1.25 ghz G4 is more than adequate to get people introduced to OS X (kmy 800 mhz iBook runs Panther quite well).

This will sell well. The iPod is already having HUGE coat-tail effects on the iMac G5. I imagine Apple will market this new Mac even tighter with the iPod. "The iPod for the Home. Introducing the iMac Mini. Starting at $499."

Name possibilities:
iMac Mini (I like it a lot but this won't be the AIO solution that the iMac embodies.)
iLifeStation
iPod Mac
iPod Center
PodMate
PodStation
MiniMac
hPod ('h' for home, but maybe too close to hp iPod)
iPod Home

[applejack]

Umm question...What has Think Secret's rep been lately in regards to rumor accuracy? :confused:

Thinksecret seems to be one of the more reliable rumor sources, but they're not infallible - didn't they predict aluminum and colored enclosures for the full-sized ipod last summer? I admit, not a major error - but more disconcerting, I seem to remember them - and everyone - coming in low on the ipod mini price points, which left many of us disappointed (*ahem*) when it was officially announced. So... are we as excited about this headless imac if it comes in at, say, $599?

[SiliconAddict]

Total cost to Apple: $350?

Nice margin for a "low-end" box.


Even if your figure is spot on, and if this device really does come to fruition. At the end of the day this thing isn’t designed to make Apple a ton of cash. It is designed to reel in Windows users at a low price point. This system is low enough and cheap enough that its, yes I know it’s a sin to say this, a throw away system. My PDA costs more then the price point suggested. Again the idea is to get switchers; something Apple is sorely in need of right now. What is cool is that since the bar has been drastically lowered new users WILL bite and those users in turn will, in all likelihood, get something more powerful in the long term. (e.g. Get em hooked with the cheap stuff and reel ‘em in with the iMac or PowerMac.) Honestly if this rumor is real its probably the smartest move Apple has made in the last 5 years.

[asphalt-proof]

With all the mainstream media news about vulnerabilities of of Windows and the increased usage of firefox maybe Steve-o sees some serious cracks developing in in the Ms monolith. I have talked to several peole recently who are VERY leery of buying a computer because of the perils of the internet i.e id theft, spam, spyware, virii etc. I tell them about my Mac, its runtime, no spyware, virii etc. and they are ver impressed. Touting the securty of a Mac vs. Windows may be a huge selling point. Imagine a commercial where they show in print: Viruses made for Windows: 500+ Viruses made for the Mac: ??
Touting other reseach indicating that hooking a windows machine to the internet for the first time can result in an attack in less than 4 minutes. The possiblities are really endless and all can prey upon people's fear of Windows.

This could be good if it pans out. I have my doubts though.

[MacNeXT]

Oh, in case any Apple marketing folks are reading, here is a reminder:


From WordNet (r) 2.0 :

advertise
v 1: call attention to; "Please don't advertise the fact that he
has AIDS" [syn: publicize, advertize, publicise]
2: make publicity for; try to sell (a product); "The salesman
is aggressively pushing the new computer model"; "The
company is heavily advertizing their new laptops" [syn: advertize,
promote, push]

[Chip NoVaMac]

Let's stay on topic people, DROP the media center banter! That has nothing to do with this rumor.This rumor is simply about Apple repacking the iBook to be a desktop ipod companion. FOR UNDER $500!!!!!

About the whole monitor thing, the reason Apple won't sell a cheapy monitor for $400 or so is that if people want a complete solution, they can get it with the iMac:

iMac Mini G4 1.25 ghz PLUS 'cheap' Apple monitor: ~$900
iMac G5 1.6 ghz with 17" LCD, speakers, etc: $1300

Ok, so it's $400 more but you get LOT more computer. Also, there's the eMac for those looking for a really cheap complete solution.

Look people, this new Mac is all about getting people hooked on OS X and iLife. The idea is that once these people get used to using iLife and Panther/Tiger, they'll want to upgrade to faster (and more expensive) Macs to run higher-end apps like Final Cut and iDVD. A 1.25 ghz G4 is more than adequate to get people introduced to OS X (kmy 800 mhz iBook runs Panther quite well).

This will sell well. The iPod is already having HUGE coat-tail effects on the iMac G5. I imagine Apple will market this new Mac even tighter with the iPod. "The iPod for the Home. Introducing the iMac Mini. Starting at $499."

Name possibilities:
iMac Mini (I like it a lot but this won't be the AIO solution that the iMac embodies.)
iLifeStation
iPod Mac
iPod Center
PodMate
PodStation
MiniMac
hPod ('h' for home, but maybe too close to hp iPod)
iPod Home

And if Apple is smart they will bundle in the DVI to VGA adapter for those that already have monitors from their PC systems.

[joeboy_45101]

My sister ought to like the sound of this. She's been wanting to get a cheap new computer and has been very interested in the eMacs. If this is true then it would be great.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Let's stay on topic people, DROP the media center banter! That has nothing to do with this rumor.This rumor is simply about Apple repacking the iBook to be a desktop ipod companion. FOR UNDER $500!!!!!...

Not entirely true. This unit could in theory end up being a media center. I doubt it, because I feel if Apple went this direction they'd not do it with a monster Macintoh PC unit with an OS that would take your non-computer literate types a ton of effort to learn and use... but a more purposeful unit like the iPod that uses an OS tailored to the particular experience (and likely have a low-latency system that could run on a cheap and efficient processor... like a StrongARM or embedded PowerPC). I see Apple going that direction rather than a "Jack of all trades, master of none" approach like the Media Center PC craze is having many believe as the "next generation". Yet who really knows? We could all be wrong, there might be an OS X Media Center edition brewing... I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

[Damek]

Well hell, they'll almost have my money. I'm a long-time Windows user, tried out Linux for about a year in 2002, then bought my first mac, an iBook, this past May 2004. I gave away the main PC I had, but lately have been wishing I had a cheap, low-power central server for my laptop & my wife's laptop to use.

I just bought one (http://idotpc.com/TheStore/Desktop/732Spec.asp?Product.id=732&Cate.id=19), at just under $500. It's working out great.

Assuming it's true, if I'd known about this just a month or two sooner, I'd probably have waited and bought a headless Mac. I've been hoping for something like this ever since I got my iBook. Unfortunately, since I just bought this little PC server, a headless Mac will have to wait.

The other sticking point is that I'm connecting to the little PC server remotely to run Quicken (previously my wife and I shared a copy on her laptop). Now we both use shared files on the server. Because Windows Quicken is good (even the old 2002 version we have), and everywhere I go I read that Mac Quicken sucks.

Also, even if this isn't true (somebody please tell me if Mac Quicken is actually good now, or if there is some other wonderful Mac finance software package??) ... even if we could do finances on a Mac instead of relying on Windows, her laptop is new enough that she doesn't want to replace it for at least 2 more years - so we couldn't just share the files, she'd have to do what I'm doing now - connect to the headless mac in a VNC/"Remote Desktop" way and run the app on the server. Which would probably mean we'd have to buy Apple Remote Desktop, unless they wisely included it with their headless macs...

Overall, I find this news positive, but sadly, too little, too late for me.

Hopefully one of those "codenamed" Apple Keynote projects is a full-featured replacement for Quicken on the Mac... (not holding my breath! :) )

[zelmo]

Thinksecret seems to be one of the more reliable rumor sources, but they're not infallible - didn't they predict aluminum and colored enclosures for the full-sized ipod last summer? I admit, not a major error - but more disconcerting, I seem to remember them - and everyone - coming in low on the ipod mini price points, which left many of us disappointed (*ahem*) when it was officially announced. So... are we as excited about this headless imac if it comes in at, say, $599?

Yes we are, but that won't preclude our bitching about it :D :rolleyes:

[pkscout]

Not entirely true. This unit could in theory end up being a media center. I doubt it, because I feel if Apple went this direction they'd not do it with a monster Macintoh PC unit with an OS that would take your non-computer literate types a ton of effort to learn and use... but a more purposeful unit like the iPod that uses an OS tailored to the particular experience (and likely have a low-latency system that could run on a cheap and efficient processor... like a StrongARM or embedded PowerPC). I see Apple going that direction rather than a "Jack of all trades, master of none" approach like the Media Center PC craze is having many believe as the "next generation". Yet who really knows? We could all be wrong, there might be an OS X Media Center edition brewing... I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

Well, as long as some folks think the media center idea is too hoaky to talk about on a rumor site, I guess I'll point out that you could run the Newton OS on the processor you mentioned above. So how about a media center running the Newton OS?

[ducks and runs] :D

[spud]

This is going to keep us busy for a while ;) ... after the enthusiasm and the blood rush settled down a bit... it is hard to think how this will pursuade people? ofcourse the there will be an initial knee jerk reaction, but more i think of it it will be the people who already have a mac (like us) that are going to buy it. The base model starting it at 500, any reasonable (minimum to run panther/tiger) would end up atleast at 600 (with out a monitor). There is no entry level monitor from apple anyway. I tried to hook up my powerbook with a cheap 200$ monitor, result was just hopeless graphics (worse than windows). With no way to upgrade, you are pretty much going to eat into imac and emac sales than get more people. no matter what ever 'wizardary' apple marketing can show, G4 is not a match for the P4. At 600 people get highend desktops (if you are lucky add a free flat panel), not an entry level computer.

leaving all the 64 bitness (unless G4 is going 64 too), what i donot get is that the demographic apple is targeting is hardly changing. most of the people buying into apple are for asthetic beauty (i donot want to start a flame war here i could be wrong!), and the point is lost once you have any 'outside' component that will not blend in. If you are talking of people wo are moving to macs because they cannot bear the malware on windows then it is the imac crowd. The botom line is that people will have to spend close to atleast 850 (computer+a decent monitor) bucks and get an half baked solution (with a very uncertain future) and would rather spend couple of hundred more and get a imac if they want a mac!

nevertheless apple slashing prices is good! After all this i might order it the day it appears!!

I think you're right.
The reason apple's stayed away from this sort of thing in the past is that it would be more geared towards current apple users than switchers — effectively turning a bunch of $1200 purchases into as many $600 purchases.
Also, I don't think apple wants to release a new 32-bit product that they'll have to support for however many years.

if this happens, which i hope it will, it will have to have a low-power G5 or some sort of fancy 64-bit motorolla chip. I don't know how they'll keep the imac market buying the imac, though.

(Disclaimer: I, like everybody else on this list, don't know what I'm talking about)