buying advice

[draigtiene]

Hello there i am fairly new to the idea of buying a mac but i've heard such great things about them i am intrested. I am a long time pc user and am looking into getting a notebook "more for lack of space at the moment then anything" to test out a good mac product. I do quite a bit of photoshop/bryce/fireworks work with a bit of html thrown in. What i'd like to know is how would the 12" ibook handle this? Should i go for that or is a powerbook more suitable?

[atif.muhammad]

Hello there i am fairly new to the idea of buying a mac but i've heard such great things about them i am intrested. I am a long time pc user and am looking into getting a notebook "more for lack of space at the moment then anything" to test out a good mac product. I do quite a bit of photoshop/bryce/fireworks work with a bit of html thrown in. What i'd like to know is how would the 12" ibook handle this? Should i go for that or is a powerbook more suitable?
no way the ibook
as soon as you mention photoshop, you have to go for the powerbook. photoshop requires that faster processing speed and better memory and better pipes.
dont go for the 12" PB coz then you have to strain your eyes to see all the panels. try the 15" that'll be fine

[Patmian212]

Light photoshop it will handle and light bryce it will handle..but remember that ram is Crucial (http://www.crucial.com)

[Blue Velvet]

You may find the 12" screen a bit restrictive for design work.

A few people around here have expressed regrets about getting the smaller size, many others have said it's ok. Pshop does have quite a few palettes plus that bar along the top...

See if you can get to a good dealer/Apple Store for a demo.

Regardless of model, RAM is indeed crucial.

[wdlove]

I don't know if price is an issue, but you should purchase the best that you can afford. A larger screen is very useful.

You could also consider a refurb.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/70104/wo/ZA1Rk5VisIIL3bwR4vPk3WPtQoE/0.0.11.1.0.6.11.1.0.0.1

[Abstract]

Yeah, if cost isn't a huge issue, I'd get a the slower 15" Powerbook model. I don't know if a 12" iBook will be good for such work because of the video card. Its not a horrible laptop video card, but if you're doing any sort of heavy graphics work, it's something I would consider. You can't upgrade the video card on the iBook, y'know.

Anyway, while the screensize is small, I think the 12" is okay. The problem is the poor resolution. It's not high enough for what you do, or at least thats what I think. I wouldn't recommend a 12" PB either because of this, which is why I recommend the 15" PB. I know there's a big price difference, but if you plan on using this for a long time as your primary computer, it may be worth considering.

[Macky-Mac]

Light photoshop it will handle and light bryce it will handle..but remember that ram is Crucial (http://www.crucial.com)

hmmm....well, my old G3 500 iBook will handle "light" photoshop, and even some "medium" photoshop.....the current G4 iBook will handle photoshop just fine.....no reason to think it's only limited to "light" photoshop

but as Patmian says.....get yourself plenty of ram

[maya]

hmmm....well, my old G3 500 iBook will handle "light" photoshop, and even some "medium" photoshop.....the current G4 iBook will handle photoshop just fine.....no reason to think it's only limited to "light" photoshop

but as Patmian says.....get yourself plenty of ram


I have no clue as to what light/medium/heavy/etc..... Photoshop means.

I do know that I work in 16-bit images, 600 dpi on the low scale these files usually are about 100+MB in size depending on how big the image is and how many layers used and they run fine on a G3 400 (a bit slow with filters and saving) and quite fine on a G4 1.2GHz system mind you the G3 has 512MB or ram and the G4 has 1280MB of ram and if you call a 16-bit, 600+ dpi 100+MB file light you must not know what you are talking about.

Both G3 and G4 system can do heavy PS work might take some time it all depends on what your patience level is I guess since I have no issues with either.

Some of my other files are 1200+ dpi, 16-bit, and wall poster size and those are close to a 1024MB is size.

Now what was it about light/medium/heavy PS work. :)

[draigtiene]

Yeah, if cost isn't a huge issue, I'd get a the slower 15" Powerbook model. I don't know if a 12" iBook will be good for such work because of the video card. Its not a horrible laptop video card, but if you're doing any sort of heavy graphics work, it's something I would consider. You can't upgrade the video card on the iBook, y'know.

Anyway, while the screensize is small, I think the 12" is okay. The problem is the poor resolution. It's not high enough for what you do, or at least thats what I think. I wouldn't recommend a 12" PB either because of this, which is why I recommend the 15" PB. I know there's a big price difference, but if you plan on using this for a long time as your primary computer, it may be worth considering.


Well i don't think the graphics card is an issue since i make most of my pictures on an intel wonder card.....so anything....even crayons would probaly be better. However i do see the point of the 12" screen for such work and will take that into consideration.

[draigtiene]

I don't know if price is an issue, but you should purchase the best that you can afford. A larger screen is very useful.

You could also consider a refurb.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/70104/wo/ZA1Rk5VisIIL3bwR4vPk3WPtQoE/0.0.11.1.0.6.11.1.0.0.1


Eventaully i will if i like what i am buying...but for now i want to see how i feel about apples products before i throw a ton of money out the window on something i may not like. So far what people have told me is 95% posistive about it but i want to test drive it for myself before i make that final descision :-P.

[carlos700]

I want to test drive it for myself before i make that final descision :-P.

Go to an apple store to test drive a PowerBook G4/iBook

[EJBasile]

I like the PB more simply because in my opinion a better keyboard, a better look, better casing material.

[Mikekmac]

I use an iBook at home all the time. I use Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Dreamweaver, and After Effects. The iBook 12 inch runs everything very well, with the only impediment being the small screen. I just replaced my 800 iBook G4 with a 1 gig, and there is a noticeable difference, so I imagine the 1.25 is pretty snappy.

The Powerbook isn't much faster right now, especially since they upped the Level 2 cache to 512 on the newer iBooks.

The iBook will be fine unless you are dealing with 300 mgb images, and don't have enough RAM.

[maya]

I use an iBook at home all the time. I use Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Dreamweaver, and After Effects. The iBook 12 inch runs everything very well, with the only impediment being the small screen. I just replaced my 800 iBook G4 with a 1 gig, and there is a noticeable difference, so I imagine the 1.25 is pretty snappy.

The Powerbook isn't much faster right now, especially since they upped the Level 2 cache to 512 on the newer iBooks.

The iBook will be fine unless you are dealing with 300 mgb images, and don't have enough RAM.

How true. :) I do the same work and I maxed out the ram I have no slow downs other than saving documents and large ones over 500+MB and that is because of the 4200 rpm HDD, this can be fixed if I obtain a faster HDD however I am quite happy and see no reason for this.

Wow an iBook has a worse keyboard than a PowerBook, hun its a matter of opinion I have heard people who hate the PowerBook keyboard for reasons and some hate the iBook, its really a matter of opinion.

I am kinda disappointed that the iBook does not have a BackLit keyboard that would be dandy. A SuperDrive 8x faster than current PowerBooks can also be had for the 12" iBook model some 3rd party vendors will install them at a reasonable price. :)

[maya]

I like the PB more simply because in my opinion a better keyboard, a better look, better casing material.


You have no clue what you are talking about. :rolleyes:


I am sure warping, scratches, dents, and so forth in the PowerBook casing are a pleasure to have. :rolleyes:

I am also sure sticky keys on the PowerBook are just dandy. :rolleyes:


Do you even own one if not both *Books other than just test driving it at the Apple Store. :)

[maya]

Go to an apple store to test drive a PowerBook G4/iBook

Sound Advice. :)

[Mertzen]

I'd recommend a PB 12" .. load it with RAM .. and use a external display when you are at home so you can use more real estate ..

[maya]

Well i don't think the graphics card is an issue since i make most of my pictures on an intel wonder card.....so anything....even crayons would probaly be better. However i do see the point of the 12" screen for such work and will take that into consideration.

I would wait to see what sub $500 USD Mac Apple/Steve Jobs introduces at MWSF 2005 to be on the safe side. :)

bryce will work like a charm as long as you have ample ram it will access and render frames faster, what type of effects are you using in post/ rendering AA/Radiosity/DOF? etc....

If so just max the ram it will render the frames quite fast I use LW3D and love the speed of rendering with a lot of ram. :)

[maya]

I'd recommend a PB 12" .. load it with RAM .. and use a external display when you are at home so you can use more real estate ..


I recommend waiting till MWSF 2005 to see what is released. :)

[allisonv7]

If the main reason you're looking into a laptop is because of lack of space you may want to consider an emac or an imac. They're much more condensed than a pc desktop and take up little space. The emac is pretty inexpensive as well.

Also, I have a 15" screen on my pc-laptop and I find its a good size for working in photoshop, I think a 12" would be way to crowded on the screen once you add in your tool bars, layers, history, info, etc.

allison.

[mcgarry]

I was in my campus bookstore last week and the PowerBook prices have been slashed, up to $300 off even the edu prices, probably in anticipation of whatever's coming out at MWSF. I'm sure similar deals are around the corner for everyone if you're willing to buy something that isn't the latest-and-greatest.

And I really would not worry about all of these odd things people say about the PowerBooks, especially the warping and other qc issues. iBooks have had more than their fair share .... Any new Apple laptop you buy should work just fine, and if not, that's what a warranty is for. Like Maya said about the iBook keyboard, a lot of it is just personal opinion, but the fact remains that the PowerBook lineup still offers better, faster machines by almost any objective metric, they just cost more (although now maybe not much more). My point is, get the laptop that suits your needs, but don't be turned off from buying a more powerful machine because of worries over unlikely potential warranty issues.

[Mertzen]

I recommend waiting till MWSF 2005 to see what is released. :)


Of course .. but that doesn't change the recommendation .. it just changes what is in the package ..

[draigtiene]

I use an iBook at home all the time. I use Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Dreamweaver, and After Effects. The iBook 12 inch runs everything very well, with the only impediment being the small screen. I just replaced my 800 iBook G4 with a 1 gig, and there is a noticeable difference, so I imagine the 1.25 is pretty snappy.

The Powerbook isn't much faster right now, especially since they upped the Level 2 cache to 512 on the newer iBooks.

The iBook will be fine unless you are dealing with 300 mgb images, and don't have enough RAM.


Nah my pc already slows down to a crawl in rendering when bryce has images of 7 megs....i can imagine 300 would make it explode...regardless i very rarely have scenes with that much detail :-P so thats not gonna be an issue i think.

[draigtiene]

I would wait to see what sub $500 USD Mac Apple/Steve Jobs introduces at MWSF 2005 to be on the safe side. :)

bryce will work like a charm as long as you have ample ram it will access and render frames faster, what type of effects are you using in post/ rendering AA/Radiosity/DOF? etc....

If so just max the ram it will render the frames quite fast I use LW3D and love the speed of rendering with a lot of ram. :)


I don't really use much in the way of post rendering effect other then some softning and such.... Other then that i do default renders until i am satisfied then switch it to ultra fine which i just let finish while i sleep. So the speed isn't a complete issue with me really it's more quality. Right now i'm sold on the ibook but i'm going to wait a little while to see whats updates might be annouced on jan 10th :-P.

[Mikekmac]

Nah my pc already slows down to a crawl in rendering when bryce has images of 7 megs....i can imagine 300 would make it explode...regardless i very rarely have scenes with that much detail :-P so thats not gonna be an issue i think.


Bryce is terrible on all platforms for rendering. My Dual G5 crunches it pretty good, but the G4 renders as well as PCs with at least 50% more clock speed. Bryce doesn't take advantage of Altivec in the rendering process at all, which is too bad, altivec is awsome.

[Patmian212]

Bryce 5 should work fine on an ibook.... no doubt it will probably render faser on a powerbook but not THAT much... I think you will be fine with an iBook.

[maya]

Bryce 5 should work fine on an ibook.... no doubt it will probably render faser on a powerbook but not THAT much... I think you will be fine with an iBook.

Not much of a difference unless (s)he has a G5 with a higher FSB. :)

[lha72]

Not wishing to start a flame war, but you will be disapointed with the Powerbook if you plan to run Photoshop. I recently bought a 1.5 GHz Powerbook as a mobile platform to complement my PowerMac DP G4s. I held out as long as possible, but had to have something by January 2005.

After six weeks of use, my observations are as follows:

Really crappy display, it's samsung, no surprise

Weak, weak, weak battery - 2.5 hours use max, of course what do you expect from a lucky-goldstar battery.

Runs really hot

Slow

Poor airport extreme

Poor quality workmanship (warped cover, uneven keys, rough speaker openings). Quality of workmanship on my $100 coffee maker far exceeds that on this $2400+ powerbook - AND the coffeemaker turns on a lot faster.

Underpowered and slow - don't expect to do much with Photoshop or Photoshop Elements on a powerbook - it is slow and anemic. If you want mobility with a good display consider SONY or even HP, if you want power consider one of the newer Intel or even AMD setups. If you want a decent price, stay away from the overpriced powerbook.

Excell - forget it if you want to run a large spread sheet.

Again, I do not want to start a flame war - The only reason I bought this thing was to have mobile compatibility with my other apple products - but after struggling with it for the past six weeks, I found it was a mistake. I have been using apple for many many years. But for the price, it is not worth it.

BTW, this thing will not run my Sony 23" Flat Pannel display in 1920X1200 mode, only at much lower resolution.

[Mechcozmo]

Not wishing to start a flame war, but you will be disapointed with the Powerbook if you plan to run Photoshop. I recently bought a 1.5 GHz Powerbook as a mobile platform to complement my PowerMac DP G4s. I held out as long as possible, but had to have something by January 2005.

BTW, this thing will not run my Sony 23" Flat Pannel display in 1920X1200 mode, only at much lower resolution.

Well, my 1.33Ghz PowerBook does PhotoShop Elements 2.0 beautifully on rather large images (+200MB was my recent max... I'm aiming for more). It starts up quickly, too. The screen is small, I will admit, so I connect it to an external display when I can. I've run Final Cut Pro, too, and it has rendered really quickly. And I've run a 23" display once. I forget the resolution... I have also run a projector-- that was fun. I had a 60" display at something above 1024x768... :D :cool:

The 12" PowerBook is a good computer. Very good. But the iBooks are good too-- don't get me wrong.

[draigtiene]

Bryce is terrible on all platforms for rendering. My Dual G5 crunches it pretty good, but the G4 renders as well as PCs with at least 50% more clock speed. Bryce doesn't take advantage of Altivec in the rendering process at all, which is too bad, altivec is awsome.


Well there is supposed to be an update for bryce sometime this year or so they say which will actually make it more on par with other redering engines. but until then yeah it is terrible. Why metacreations sold bryce along with all their other products still boggles my mind....i really wonder if they were ihaving money troubles because it doesn't make much sense really.

[cyberghandi]

:confused: :(

Hello! Can anyone please help me?

I'm not really sure I'm supposed to ask this here, but here goes: I really want to buy the new iBook 12'' (since the prices just dropped in Europe, even more for students :D). My question is: is it really the Smart Thing To Do to buy a new iBook several days before MWSF '05? I really don't know what Jobs's keynote will be about, but after reading this forum I'm starting to freak... New iBooks & PB's? iLife'05? More Hard Disk memory?
Of course none of you can predict the future, but in your honest experienced opinion: what should I do? Should I wait? Or go ahead? Because I'm afraid that even if new iBooks are unveiled it'll last several weeks/months before they're available in Belgium + they'll probably be more expensive...

Thanks a million for the help!

Oh yeah, by the way: should I get 12 inch or 14 inch? And Combo or Super (considering I don't have limitless funds...)

AM

[blue_monkey]

since the ibooks have been updated only a couple of weeks ago you should be fine! buy one now!

[efoto]

since the ibooks have been updated only a couple of weeks ago you should be fine! buy one now!

Agreed. With the iBooks just recently being updated, you should be fine proceeding with one now. Similar to the Cinema Displays....the price has come down but that is mostly just to increase sales, not to clear stock for a new product (30" has just shipped for 3months I think :eek: )

[wdlove]

Yes, if I were you I'd go ahead a purchase an iBook now. You should purchase the best iBook that you can afford. What kind of things are you planning to do with your iBook? That would answer your question about a combo or superdrive.

[mactropy]

Well, I have been using Poser and Bryce for some of my work on a G3 iBook (900 MHz) before I upgraded to the Powerbook. (Only because I wanted the Superdrive) I guess you have to evaluate if you have a couple of minutes/seconds to wait for your result to finish rendering.
For other reasons, you should always go with a model that has recently been updated, so that you have a long time of use before you upgrade again.
Some of my purchases were refurbs and I had my share of problems with them, but in the end, Apple has always fixed them. I'd recommend checking out the refurb section on store.apple.com.