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View Full Version : No need to Double-Post


emw
Jan 4, 2005, 12:35 PM
One of the most common misconceptions of new posters is that you need to post in multiple sub-forums in order to insure that your message is read and your question is answered.

The truth is, this is both unnecessary and annoying to the majority of the population. While the forum members are a helpful lot, we tend to get a little frustrated with multiple posts for a couple of reasons - one, it splits the conversation, so no question is really fully answered, and secondly it reinforces the (usually mistaken) belief that newbies are to be treated with at least a little bit on intolerance.

That being said, initial posts should be placed in the appropriate forum a single time. If it is mistakenly placed in the wrong forum, the moderators will step in and relocate it as necessary.

And don't worry - your post will be seen. Many experienced members patrol the forum using the "New Posts" search, available in the forum "navigator bar" to see what's been posted since their last visit. This way, there is no need to go to specific sub-forums to see posts.

Speaking of finding posts - the search feature (again in the Navigation Bar) can be very useful. If you think you have a non-unique question, first do a quick search of the forum to see if a recent question was asked. While not perfect, it's a chance to check things out before posting a question that's been asked (and answered) many times before.

gwuMACaddict
Jan 4, 2005, 12:38 PM
yikes... what brought this on? i know what this thread needs...

*looks around*

*waits for edesign*

Blue Velvet
Jan 4, 2005, 12:39 PM
Hear-hear!

:)


*Whispers* What was that you said again?

emw
Jan 4, 2005, 12:50 PM
yikes... what brought this on? i know what this thread needs...

*looks around*

*waits for edesign*

Actually, I'd been waiting for edesign to jump in on some of the recent duplicate posts and "new" posts of old information. Since he hadn't, I thought I'd post this. I just don't have any good pictures.

I've seen in the past couple of days several people double- (or even triple- :eek: ) posting, as well as posting threads on subjects that had recently been discussed ad infinitum, or where still in progress.

edesignuk
Jan 4, 2005, 01:17 PM
Well I made this yesterday, but it doesn't cover all bases (ie. posting the same thing in different sub-forums)

http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/MR_Thread_Done_Before.gif

PlaceofDis
Jan 4, 2005, 01:18 PM
i think if someone made a sticky about how to use the forums (vbulliten) correctly and to its greatest potential, like the searches and how to view the forums in different matters would help cut this sort of thing down, i know when i started posting here i didnt know how to search and whatnot, im still learning things myself, but i had some common sense not to double post at least

emw
Jan 4, 2005, 02:24 PM
Well I made this yesterday, but it doesn't cover all bases (ie. posting the same thing in different sub-forums)

http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/MR_Thread_Done_Before.gif

Maybe we can make that banner be on every "Post Reply" or "New Thread" dialog for anyone with Newbie status...

bousozoku
Jan 4, 2005, 03:30 PM
Hear-hear!

:)


*Whispers* What was that you said again?

Amazing, someone knows how to spell hear-hear. :D Too many people use it as if it's a command for a pet. <spreads the newspaper on the floor>

Yes, double- and triple-posting threads is an issue but there are so many others. We have two or three users who have been here over two years who still don't know how to properly edit their posts and will post 3-6 replies in one thread, one after the other.

Okay, I'll stop with that, though I'm certain I could continue for hours. :D

emw
Jan 4, 2005, 04:01 PM
That's an idea - the MacRumors:Forums Posting Pet Peeves thread!

MacDawg
Jan 4, 2005, 04:17 PM
i think if someone made a sticky about how to use the forums (vbulliten) correctly and to its greatest potential, like the searches and how to view the forums in different matters would help cut this sort of thing down, i know when i started posting here i didnt know how to search and whatnot, im still learning things myself, but i had some common sense not to double post at least

Maybe... and maybe not...
I think lots of folks dive right in and post without doing much reading, at least the ones that are irritating do. I read for about a year before I ever posted.

Making a 'sticky' is a good idea and there are several good ones, but if a newbie doesn't search, double posts, and such... it is likely they won't find the sticky before they do something dumb anyway... but you can always direct them to it (like E's avatar sticky.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

PlaceofDis
Jan 4, 2005, 05:22 PM
Maybe... and maybe not...
I think lots of folks dive right in and post without doing much reading, at least the ones that are irritating do. I read for about a year before I ever posted.

Making a 'sticky' is a good idea and there are several good ones, but if a newbie doesn't search, double posts, and such... it is likely they won't find the sticky before they do something dumb anyway... but you can always direct them to it (like E's avatar sticky.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

very true, i only browsed the stickies and FAQ when i started posting, i suppose there could be a way to make the sticky on how to use the forums and forum rules in your face when you first sign up, but then people would complain about that too, well lets hope there isnt too much craziness before and after this macworld, i might just have to cut back on my time here on Macrumors, for a little bit so i dont start losing my hair

pivo6
Jan 4, 2005, 05:56 PM
That's an idea - the MacRumors:Forums Posting Pet Peeves thread!

It's already been done before. You might try the search function that you're so fond of. ;) ;) ;) :p

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=78772&highlight=pet+peeves

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=45380&highlight=pet+peeves

edesignuk
Jan 4, 2005, 05:58 PM
You might try the search function that you're so fond of. ;) ;) ;) :p
http://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/rollinglaugh.gifhttp://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/rollinglaugh.gifhttp://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/rollinglaugh.gifhttp://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/rollinglaugh.gif

emw
Jan 4, 2005, 06:38 PM
It's already been done before. You might try the search function that you're so fond of. ;) ;) ;) :p

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=78772&highlight=pet+peeves

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=45380&highlight=pet+peeves

Touché. :D

But notice I didn't actually start a thread on it, which would've been much worse. :eek:

mkrishnan
Jan 4, 2005, 10:44 PM
I think edesign's banner would be better if the search bar said "Win a Free iPod" but other than that, I'm all for it. ;)

TEG
Jan 5, 2005, 12:42 PM
Amen. I some times think the collective IQ of this place goes down with each newbie.

BTW, edeisgnuk, now if only newbies actually saw that graphic, it might work. But as we say, you can lead a horse to water....

TEG

jeremy.king
Jan 5, 2005, 01:04 PM
Two quick thoughts as i am equally annoyed with people (including myself - today) who fail to search. Although in my defense I searched "Hitachi and mini" and no results came up :)

However, I could see how its confusing for newbs and veterans alike with two search links up top. The bb search link isn't necessarily in the best place on the site. Secondly, since this is a paid version of vBulletin, why don't they have a feature that would search for you after you try to post a new thread. Here is how I think it would go.

I click New Thread
I fill out form babbling about the lack of searching
I click Post
An intermediate page loads saying "Hey, these the existing threads (X,Y,Z) closely resemble your post" and asks if I want to post anyway.

Now I have the option to knowingly double post.

This would help someone recognize a subject/problem has already been posted and may even help them find a solution that they were looking for.

maya
Jan 5, 2005, 01:09 PM
Well I made this yesterday, but it doesn't cover all bases (ie. posting the same thing in different sub-forums)

[IMG]http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/MR_Thread_Done_Before.gif[IMG]


I believe the new comers get confused when trying to find anything here on MR. Since MR has 3 types of search:

1. Site Search
2. Forum Search
3. Thread Search

That is crazy indeed and many people miss the search buttons/links on MR.

Maybe the search field on the top should have all three search options available. Having the search options split has its benefits however many people miss out since its confuses them. :)

maya
Jan 5, 2005, 01:11 PM
Two quick thoughts as i am equally annoyed with people (including myself - today) who fail to search. Although in my defense I searched "Hitachi and mini" and no results came up :)

However, I could see how its confusing for newbs and veterans alike with two search links up top. The bb search link isn't necessarily in the best place on the site. Secondly, since this is a paid version of vBulletin, why don't they have a feature that would search for you after you try to post a new thread. Here is how I think it would go.

I click New Thread
I fill out form babbling about the lack of searching
I click Post
An intermediate page loads saying "Hey, these the existing threads (X,Y,Z) closely resemble your post" and asks if I want to post anyway.

Now I have the option to knowingly double post.

This would help someone recognize a subject/problem has already been posted and may even help them find a solution that they were looking for.

Time for MR to use Google Search Word Indexing. :)

emw
Jan 5, 2005, 02:01 PM
Now I have the option to knowingly double post.

This would help someone recognize a subject/problem has already been posted and may even help them find a solution that they were looking for.

When I referred to double-posting above, I was specifically talking about users who intentionally do this since they think they have to post in multiple sub-forums to be "heard."

The art of searching, even if you know what you're doing, can be hit or miss, so I can only be so upset about that, for the many reasons that have been cited here. Many people will even start a thread like "Hey, I tried searching but couldn't find anything..." That's cool.

Equally annoying to people who don't search and a thread was posted 2 hours ago are people who spout off about not searching and then reference a two-year-old thread as evidence. "Hey, we talked about iPod's in this thread from 2001. Why didn't you search, noob?" :rolleyes:

mkrishnan
Jan 5, 2005, 02:13 PM
Time for MR to use Google Search Word Indexing. :)

Second that...

Speaking of which, does VBulletin or whatever the software MR runs off of come with any help info regarding how boolean searches, quotations, etc, work in the search engine?

And did the search engine change recently? I used to have a lot of trouble with searches because common words and short words. I seem to remember they were even deleted when they were in quotes. But I tried to verify these effects in another tab as I was posting, and they don't seem to occur anymore. This seems to have changed recently (or else I'm space-cadeting :o).

wordmunger
Jan 5, 2005, 02:17 PM
I wonder if it would be possible to configure vBulletin to not allow users to start multiple new threads within, say 10 minutes of each other. That might cut down on quite a bit. For moderators, this function would need to be disabled.

maya
Jan 5, 2005, 02:18 PM
I wonder if it would be possible to configure vBulletin to not allow users to start multiple new threads within, say 10 minutes of each other. That might cut down on quite a bit. For moderators, this function would need to be disabled.

I believe vBulletin has the option for:

merging threads, delay PM and thread creation on a time bases. :)

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 5, 2005, 04:32 PM
Maybe setting up a FAQ/Sticky section with the more popular topics is in order. Some of the topics that come off the top of the head would be:

- How do I copy a DVD?

- Airport Express compatibility with other routers

- Should I buy Crucial/OWC/TransIntl/Other RAM?

Just a few quick ones, there are so many more.

maya
Jan 5, 2005, 04:43 PM
Maybe setting up a FAQ/Sticky section with the more popular topics is in order. Some of the topics that come off the top of the head would be:

- How do I copy a DVD?

- Airport Express compatibility with other routers

- Should I buy Crucial/OWC/TransIntl/Other RAM?

Just a few quick ones, there are so many more.


Aren't all these questions on Apples site. :confused: :)

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 5, 2005, 05:23 PM
Aren't all these questions on Apples site. :confused: :)

In some cases yes. And even if it is, there are those that prefer a more "family" touch to their questions.

The problem is that when those that have issues respond to a double post, or thread that was started elsewhere, it just starts to feed on itself. If it were ignored, or a friendly post to the "newbies"; instead of graphical postings of the error; the thread would die away.

Applespider
Jan 5, 2005, 05:51 PM
Maybe setting up a FAQ/Sticky section with the more popular topics is in order.

It's a great idea - a whole 'switch/get to know your Mac' forum just for newbies to get help in.

But I'm not sure people still wouldn't just click that 'new topic' button. I'm thinking of the very useful/detailed sticky on buying laptop cases/bags and there's still a 'I'm looking for a case for my PB' every few days.

Mechcozmo
Jan 6, 2005, 12:13 AM
Here ya go!
I made this for the newbie help thread... but I got lazy....


http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19899&stc=1


Linkety (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102527) for the new people. And I don't want a stalker so I edited out some info about me... ~ahem~edesignuk~/ahem~

maya
Jan 6, 2005, 02:10 AM
Here ya go!
I made this for the newbie help thread... but I got lazy....


[IMG]http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19899&stc=1[IMG]


[URL=http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102527]Linkety[URL] for the new people. And I don't want a stalker so I edited out some info about me... ~ahem~edesignuk~/ahem~

The new comers will miss the red text, its too small...maybe use an an arrow to point the search out. With bigger bold text. :)

Sun Baked
Jan 6, 2005, 02:16 AM
Every now and then, it's much easier to reply in both threads...

Usually this results in every other word being sent off to the thread in question.

Such as:

1. ******* this ******* in ***** other **** being **** off ** the ***** in ********.

2. Usually **** results ** every **** word ***** sent *** to *** thread ** question.

Abulia
Jan 6, 2005, 12:00 PM
Well I made this yesterday, but it doesn't cover all bases (ie. posting the same thing in different sub-forums)

http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/MR_Thread_Done_Before.gifI know I'm a newbie, and therefore by all accounts should be ignored (I am, after all, lowering the collective IQ of this site :rolleyes: ), but these types of graphics aren't helpful; they're demeaning and offensive (to a new user).

I think a polite note asking someone to use search is better than just plopping graphics in every thread that you -- personally -- find the question annoying.

It seems by the collective thinking just about every possible question has been asked at least once in some format; there should be no reason to start a thread.

Abulia
Jan 6, 2005, 12:02 PM
Amen. I some times think the collective IQ of this place goes down with each newbie.Nice.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 6, 2005, 12:15 PM
I know I'm a newbie, and therefore by all accounts should be ignored (I am, after all, lowering the collective IQ of this site :rolleyes: ), but these types of graphics aren't helpful; they're demeaning and offensive (to a new user).

I think a polite note asking someone to use search is better than just plopping graphics in every thread that you -- personally -- find the question annoying.

It seems by the collective thinking just about every possible question has been asked at least once in some format; there should be no reason to start a thread.

I agree. MR is not the only site that I go to that has those that feel they need to uphold "standards". It is one thing for a "mod" to do it; but it has a chilling effect when the rank and file does it.

There are threads that I pass on since the question has been asked so may other times. Other times since responses seem to harsh or one sided I might chime in.

One of the faults I see is in the way some threads are posted here. I really think that an FAQ forum with the top 20&% of the posts is in order. And I would for one be willing to assist as an "associate moderator" to see that postings go to the right place. It is because of the structure of the forums that many newbies aren't able to find the easy answers to their question. Also many users are put off by having to wade through 5-10-20-or more pages of a post to find the answers (some simply don't know about working from the latest to the earliest).

In the end it does not excuse the hostility that some exhibit. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Keep in mind we are dealing with non-verbal communication here. So what may be humor when you post, may not come across as such when read. I know this from first hand experience (thanks Nerserk).

emw
Jan 6, 2005, 12:18 PM
I think a polite note asking someone to use search is better than just plopping graphics in every thread that you -- personally -- find the question annoying.

Perhaps, but what's the fun in that? ;)

It seems by the collective thinking just about every possible question has been asked at least once in some format; there should be no reason to start a thread.

That wasn't the original point of this thread, nor is it the belief of most members. The original post centered on people who post in numerous sub-forums in order to insure their post is viewed. This is unnecessary and confusing. Reposting a technical question that was asked more than about 3 months ago is perfectly valid, as those things tend to change quickly. We just don't like to see duplicate posts or reposts of things less than day old.

As for the search - the primary aim is to encourage people to see if there is recent information on a question. Generally, the search is effective to see if you are doubling another announcement (such as the Playboy iBods) or asking a common technical question. It's like coming to a meeting late and expecting everyone to re-explain the parts you missed, even though the notes will cover it.

As for the comment on lowering the IQ - that was a little too much. We were all newbies once (I was only 5 months ago), and we can't expect people new to the forum to know everything - hence the need to occasionally remind them. I think newbies in general increase the site ignorance level, but that's only because they haven't had time to learn and the site isn't always intuitive.

Also, recall that this thread is in the forum feedback section. We are looking for ways to make it easier for everyone to understand the capabilities of the system and to use it to their benefit.

emw
Jan 6, 2005, 12:42 PM
I agree. MR is not the only site that I go to that has those that feel they need to uphold "standards". It is one thing for a "mod" to do it; but it has a chilling effect when the rank and file does it.
To a point, yes, but in the end this is a users forum, not a moderators forum. We need to all work to maintain the standards here, but we should be doing it in a responsible fashion.

In the end it does not excuse the hostility that some exhibit.
Indeed. There really should be no place for hostility in these forums. The hard part, as you say, is sometimes distinguishing what is truly hostile, and what is meant to be humorous (or humourous, for some... ;)) - that comes with a history with certain members.

I think we just need to remember that at one point we all knew nothing about these forums. Where I am currently, I'd still consider myself to be a relative newbie despite how many posts I have, and I continue to learn the etiquette of the forums. There are times when posters deserve a slap on the hands, and times where patience (or a kind piece of advice) are more warranted.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 6, 2005, 01:20 PM
To a point, yes, but in the end this is a users forum, not a moderators forum. We need to all work to maintain the standards here, but we should be doing it in a responsible fashion.


Indeed. There really should be no place for hostility in these forums. The hard part, as you say, is sometimes distinguishing what is truly hostile, and what is meant to be humorous (or humourous, for some... ;)) - that comes with a history with certain members.

I think we just need to remember that at one point we all knew nothing about these forums. Where I am currently, I'd still consider myself to be a relative newbie despite how many posts I have, and I continue to learn the etiquette of the forums. There are times when posters deserve a slap on the hands, and times where patience (or a kind piece of advice) are more warranted.

But in the end, we ALL should strive to make MR a place that people want to come to. For the ones that get blasted by words or pictures might not come back. It is about creating a better place in the future.

I agree that there are those that need to slapped on the hands. But there is a positive way of doing so, and a negative way. I am seeing way more "negative" responses. It also goes to reporting posts that we feel crossed the line. Why do some members feel the need to add their two cents in with words or oversized pictures?

Blue Velvet
Jan 6, 2005, 02:08 PM
Why do some members feel the need to add their two cents in with words or oversized pictures?

Because familiarity (sometimes) breeds contempt: it's human nature.
We can't all have the patience of a saint, not all the time anyway... but god knows, I try...

I enjoy helping people with their probs but when they post multiple threads on the same topic, it fractures the ensuing dialogue...

The pictures you refer to amuse and entertain others and I must admit, when I first turned up here, I dreaded getting one in response to something I had posted.

But I took precautions by lurking for about 6 months before getting used to some of the way things were done and learning from the mistakes of others who fell by the wayside.

As someone once said to me, forums like this are like arriving at a big party where you don't know anyone but want to be noticed...

Perhaps some of us spend too much time on here and sometimes that tolerance gets stretched by yet another G5 powerbook thread.

If it really becomes an issue, then I would expect the poster who gets mildly slapped down to contact one of the mods. God knows what trivial stuff they have to deal with half the time...

In any form of human society, there are always cliques and a hierarchy of some kind of another that will judge the actions of newcomers...

Imagine if some stranger turned up at one of your family gatherings and started asking the same piece of advice or telling the same joke to everybody in the room, one by one?

So... I see no need to get too anxious about it. People join for lots of reasons and virtually everybody will find something to suit them here. If not, they'll go elsewhere to find what suits them.