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View Full Version : Worried about the 10.7 dock - no running apps indication




mabaker
Oct 20, 2010, 01:58 PM
I do love all the cosmetic changes in Lion and absolutely LOVE the new Expose feature that brings back proper window management but the status indicator of applications running in the dock seems to be gone. :eek:

Mac OS X is RAM hungry as it is. Lion with its instant on features may be crawling even more if all apps in the Dock are pre-loaded into the memory.



GFLPraxis
Oct 20, 2010, 02:02 PM
With the dropping price of RAM, bring it on. The MacBook Air can just launch everything out of the SSD.

DrummerB
Oct 20, 2010, 02:43 PM
They still have a lot of time before release. I'm sure there will be changes to the GUI. This was only a first peak on the new features.

KingYaba
Oct 20, 2010, 03:31 PM
I'm sure they won't leave that out, OP.

elppa
Oct 20, 2010, 05:26 PM
No matter how fast the SSD is, it won't be quicker than RAM.

Unless they are applying the iOS “multi-tasking” model to the Mac (i.e. no paging in/out — hence why applications will restore state when reopened). This would ensure that the current app is always responsive.

However I don't see it being practical.

celticpride678
Oct 20, 2010, 05:59 PM
Mac OS X Lion is a good year away. Apple only provided a sneak peak of it today and they will be making a lot of UI changes down the road.

Yamcha
Oct 20, 2010, 06:13 PM
Yeah I'm pretty sure there will be some major UI changes..

Things I hope to see
- New Application & System Icons
- New Theme - Trash Aqua :P
- Customizable Dock
- Uninstaller
- Cut Feature
- Window Snap Feature - similar to win 7
- Even Faster Boot Times and OS performance

I actually really like the aqua theme, but its been around for a long time, ever since the first OS 10 release, although it has evolved over the years, a lot of it is still very similar to the previous versions of OSX, Its about time to drop aqua..

MyDesktopBroke
Oct 20, 2010, 08:07 PM
Things I hope to see
- New Application & System Icons
Judging by Apple's latest OS X icons (iTunes X, app store), I'm not really looking forward to this idea.

saxon48
Oct 21, 2010, 12:20 AM
- Window Snap Feature - similar to win 7


http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/33161/cinch

pfjellman
Nov 7, 2010, 04:04 PM
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/33161/cinch

or get bettertouchtool -- does the same thing and it's free. highly customizable with the animation that accompanies the resize as well. and if you use a trackpad you get the added bonus of being able to define and create gestures to do stuff. i love it, works a treat.

http://blog.boastr.net/?page_id=1722

lewis82
Nov 7, 2010, 08:02 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPod touch 2nd gen: Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; fr-fr) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

To get back to the topic: there will probably be a simple tweak to make the indicators appear, just like vertical stoplights in iTunes 10.

admanimal
Nov 7, 2010, 08:11 PM
Mac OS X is RAM hungry as it is. Lion with its instant on features may be crawling even more if all apps in the Dock are pre-loaded into the memory.

You are misunderstanding the implications of this change. The point is supposed to be that (ideally) you won't be able to distinguish between an app that is loaded into RAM and running vs. one that is loaded into RAM and not running vs. one that isn't even in RAM yet. Very little will actually change in terms of how and when apps are loaded into RAM (i.e. not until you try to run them the first time). It is likely that the OS will automatically remove idle, backgrounded apps from RAM if the user runs a new app that needs more RAM than is free.

kasakka
Nov 7, 2010, 08:35 PM
Considering the amounts of RAM most computers have these days it doesn't matter that much what you have running unless it's big productivity suites like Photoshop, Maya or Final Cut.

What OSX needs is some kind of indicator showing how many windows are open. I find that is very useful in Win7.

kntgsp
Nov 10, 2010, 08:37 PM
With the dropping price of RAM, bring it on. The MacBook Air can just launch everything out of the SSD.

I hope you realize that RAM is faster than the fastest SSDs by orders of magnitude.

NATO
Nov 11, 2010, 09:16 AM
You are misunderstanding the implications of this change. The point is supposed to be that (ideally) you won't be able to distinguish between an app that is loaded into RAM and running vs. one that is loaded into RAM and not running vs. one that isn't even in RAM yet.

The whole point of the indicator underneath the dock icons is not that the app is loaded into RAM etc, it's to let you know which apps are actively running (ie, doing stuff, whether that be Mail running and checking for mail periodically etc).

I can understand Apple wanting a sort of 'instant-on' feature to apps, there should still be a way of knowing which apps are actually running and which are suspended. No indicator on the dock is going to make that very difficult.

roadbloc
Nov 11, 2010, 09:23 AM
You worry about the silliest things.

admanimal
Nov 11, 2010, 12:11 PM
The whole point of the indicator underneath the dock icons is not that the app is loaded into RAM etc, it's to let you know which apps are actively running (ie, doing stuff, whether that be Mail running and checking for mail periodically etc).

I can understand Apple wanting a sort of 'instant-on' feature to apps, there should still be a way of knowing which apps are actually running and which are suspended. No indicator on the dock is going to make that very difficult.

I understand, I was just trying to explain Apple's apparent point of view on things, assuming the lack of dock indicator actually happens.

domness
Dec 6, 2010, 03:02 PM
I think it'll be as easy as changing a PList file to get back the dock indicators, I'm sure Apple wouldn't completely remove a feature like that.

Andeavor
Jan 27, 2011, 04:18 PM
The whole point of the indicator underneath the dock icons is not that the app is loaded into RAM etc, it's to let you know which apps are actively running (ie, doing stuff, whether that be Mail running and checking for mail periodically etc).

I can understand Apple wanting a sort of 'instant-on' feature to apps, there should still be a way of knowing which apps are actually running and which are suspended. No indicator on the dock is going to make that very difficult.
I can imagine they're implementing a push * notification feature that will silently track new information taken online (such a s mail, updates, news, etc.) which will be indicated as usual and clicking on the app will boot it into full mode.

I believe they did mention that apps never really shut down and run on very low RAM until you make them active again, hence they can remove the indicators so you won't be constantly trying to determine whether a program is running or not.

And when you do run it, it will continue where it left off.

sOwL
Jan 28, 2011, 07:45 AM
I'm worried about this too. And i'm not worried about the indicators not existing, im worried about changing established mechanisms of handling open applications. People say that it will just take a tweak to bring the indicators back - but are you sure? I mean, if indeed they move onto a 'every app is running but not running at the same time' philosophy then there's no real way to actually indicate which apps are running, because there will essentially be no difference between running apps and not running, in a sense, no running apps at all. I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned, but i really like managing myself what's running and what's not. I don't want certain apps to get suspended when i change focus to another app. If i need to, I'll quit them myself. And how would that work in the first place?? I mean, certain apps like iTunes will still need to be running. Are they gonna make it like iOS, like having applications only sending certain data, like audio etc? Just some thoughts on this. I still want to believe that the missing indicator was just a presentation thing and that it's not gonna happen. We'll see soon.

Also, i would love push notifications on the mac, maybe using growl. This way i won't have to run apps like Mail if i dont' need to.

MikeDTyke
Jan 28, 2011, 08:41 AM
I'm hoping for a whole new notifications UI across iPhone, iPad & Mac.

Something that does away with modal popups for notifications and is something akin to growl's music video theme. Fades in, fades out. But with a list view of all the notifications recieved that can be filtered by application/type and searched.

roadbloc
Jan 29, 2011, 05:53 AM
With auto-resuming Apps... why would you need a dock indicator?

iPhoneCollector
Jan 29, 2011, 06:02 AM
i hope they don't add i multitasking bar like they have in ios. its so much more convenient to close the apps from the dock

Lord Appleseed
Jan 29, 2011, 10:36 AM
i hope they don't add i multitasking bar like they have in ios. its so much more convenient to close the apps from the dock

Either that, since the Apps were said to be frozen like on iOS, or the lack of indicators was due to the beta build.

Merlyn3D
Jan 29, 2011, 12:52 PM
or get bettertouchtool -- does the same thing and it's free. highly customizable with the animation that accompanies the resize as well. and if you use a trackpad you get the added bonus of being able to define and create gestures to do stuff. i love it, works a treat.

http://blog.boastr.net/?page_id=1722

Hyperdock is also free and does the same thing Cinch does, in addition to win7 like previews when you hover over dock icons.

ECUpirate44
Jan 31, 2011, 09:40 AM
So if there's no idicator light how does one quit an app? I don't need an app that I'm not using use CPU power thus draining my battery

roadbloc
Jan 31, 2011, 09:55 AM
So if there's no idicator light how does one quit an app? I don't need an app that I'm not using use CPU power thus draining my battery

Auto-resuming apps just like in iOS. I have every single one of my iPhone apps 'open' and they do not touch my battery life or overall performance unless I'm actively using them. No need for the indicator light. No need to quit unless the App is malfunctioning.

If Apple do this right, this is going to be big.

ECUpirate44
Jan 31, 2011, 11:39 AM
Auto-resuming apps just like in iOS. I have every single one of my iPhone apps 'open' and they do not touch my battery life or overall performance unless I'm actively using them. No need for the indicator light. No need to quit unless the App is malfunctioning.

If Apple do this right, this is going to be big.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

miniroll32
Jan 31, 2011, 01:16 PM
I'd say the lack of application 'lights' was because it was not a final version of Lion. Don't forget how many aspects of that 'demonstration' were not even close to Mac OSX as we know it; the status bar (top-right) didn't have any icons for a start. Even if it was intended, Apple are know to tinker with designs for testing :)

mike5411
Jan 31, 2011, 01:25 PM
Hyperdock is also free and does the same thing Cinch does, in addition to win7 like previews when you hover over dock icons.

i just dl'ed hyperdock and its not free. Its a 15 day free trial and 9.95 to buy.

tkermit
Jan 31, 2011, 03:35 PM
i just dl'ed hyperdock and its not free. Its a 15 day free trial and 9.95 to buy.

It used to be free while it was still in beta. The final version only came out today.

ECUpirate44
Jan 31, 2011, 04:41 PM
it used to be free while it was still in beta. The final version only came out today.

269478

tkermit
Jan 31, 2011, 05:03 PM
That's not true.

roadbloc
Jan 31, 2011, 05:04 PM
269478

I think you'll find he isn't.

ThE.MeSsEnGeR
Feb 11, 2011, 03:59 PM
Yeah I'm pretty sure there will be some major UI changes..

here are my thoughts about what you said:

Things I hope to see
- New Application & System Icons (yeah, I just hope they don't go all like iTunes and the Mac AppStore)
- New Theme - Trash Aqua :P (bring it on!)
- Customizable Dock (not a bad idea; but Apple doesn't really let us customize a lot of things :P)
- Uninstaller (yeah, it'd be good to have one)
- Cut Feature (that is the ONE and only thing I miss from Windows)
- Window Snap Feature - similar to win 7 (I don't think so)
- Even Faster Boot Times and OS performance (won't say no to MOAR SPEAD!!!)

mabaker
Feb 24, 2011, 08:02 AM
The indicators seem to have all gone judging by the official page…


http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

Ridiculous.

Simplicated
Feb 24, 2011, 12:21 PM
I'd say the lack of application 'lights' was because it was not a final version of Lion. Don't forget how many aspects of that 'demonstration' were not even close to Mac OSX as we know it; the status bar (top-right) didn't have any icons for a start. Even if it was intended, Apple are know to tinker with designs for testing :)

Apple has intentionally removed it.

But you're right, it's a beta version. Apple had made changes to Mac OS X that the mass didn't like in the past, so they reverted back. One example would be Mac OS X Public Beta. The Apple logo in the menubar was in the middle. The people hated it so they changed back to the left.

Let's hope this is also the case for Lion. I really don't want apps running without me knowing and draining my battery.

Simplicated
Feb 24, 2011, 12:25 PM
here are my thoughts about what you said:

Things I hope to see
- New Application & System Icons (yeah, I just hope they don't go all like iTunes and the Mac AppStore)
- New Theme - Trash Aqua :P (bring it on!)
- Customizable Dock (not a bad idea; but Apple doesn't really let us customize a lot of things :P)
- Uninstaller (yeah, it'd be good to have one)
- Cut Feature (that is the ONE and only thing I miss from Windows)
- Window Snap Feature - similar to win 7 (I don't think so)
- Even Faster Boot Times and OS performance (won't say no to MOAR SPEAD!!!)

Some personal opinions here:
New Icons - The simple Aqua icons look phenomenally great. I don't see a need to change them.
New Theme - A theme adopted from iOS would be great. (Seems they are doing that right now)
Customizable Dock - What's that?
Uninstaller - Don't move your past Windows experiences to the Mac. Most Mac apps just need to be trashed and they'll be fine.
Cut Feature - DESPARATELY NEEDED
Windows Snap - I want this too, but it's not going to happen.
Speed Increment - Of course.

iMJustAGuy
Feb 24, 2011, 12:31 PM
You worry about the silliest things.

Maybe to you it's minute. But it's a big deal to the OP (obviously) and I feel that way too.

Phil A.
Feb 24, 2011, 05:42 PM
For anyone that's worried about the lack of indicator lights:

You can enable them again through system preferences

mmomega
Feb 24, 2011, 06:13 PM
^^ Like Phil said you can turn the lights back on...

Just go to system prefs -> Dock -> check Show Indicator Lights for Open Applications -> Done

iPhone1
Feb 24, 2011, 06:22 PM
^^ Like Phil said you can turn the lights back on...

Just go to system prefs -> Dock -> check Show Indicator Lights for Open Applications -> Done

This.

nathanl1192
Feb 25, 2011, 02:23 PM
This may have already been said but there is an option in System Preferences to view the lights on the dock again!

Yay! Although using lion for a bit, I see no need!

aramelus
Feb 26, 2011, 05:45 PM
I still don't understand the reasoning behind removing the indicator.

To the beta users. How do you know that iChat is running for example if you don't have the indicator turned on? Or that mail program runs and receives mails?

QuarterSwede
Feb 26, 2011, 05:50 PM
I still don't understand the reasoning behind removing the indicator.

To the beta users. How do you know that iChat is running for example if you don't have the indicator turned on? Or that mail program runs and receives mails?
Cmd+Tab?

If Lion is suspending apps when not in use it won't affect CPU performance, battery life, etc. at all if they're running or not.

aramelus
Feb 26, 2011, 06:07 PM
Cmd+Tab?

If Lion is suspending apps when not in use it won't affect CPU performance, battery life, etc. at all if they're running or not.

I don't think suspending apps is possible like in iOS. How will Lion know that an app can be suspended? And what does suspend mean for a big game like WOW. Will I be logged out if it gets suspended?

In iOS suspending is possible because apps have to use explicit services if they want to run in the background. I have no Idea how Apple will achieve this without forcing developers to rewrite apps to support suspending...

Michaelgtrusa
Feb 26, 2011, 10:00 PM
I do love all the cosmetic changes in Lion and absolutely LOVE the new Expose feature that brings back proper window management but the status indicator of applications running in the dock seems to be gone. :eek:

Mac OS X is RAM hungry as it is. Lion with its instant on features may be crawling even more if all apps in the Dock are pre-loaded into the memory.

You have the option to turn it back on in sys/prefs.

goMac
Feb 26, 2011, 10:20 PM
OS X has been able to suspend apps since 10.0. It happens automatically in the background when OS X finds that an app isn't using resources. When you click on an app sometimes in the dock, and your machine lurches for a second, the app is being unpacked.

Hildron101010
Feb 27, 2011, 12:51 AM
I don't know if anyone told you guys this yet (forgive me if I am repeating someone else's information) but there IS a setting for indicators. In the Dock preferences, you can turn on the indication lights. See? Apple thinks everything though.

paulsalter
Feb 27, 2011, 03:59 AM
I am getting confused how this suspend works for apps

say for example i am using handbrake to rip a dvd

If i am actually ripping a dvd and switch to another app, handbrake will continue in the background as it does now

If handbrake is open but not doing anything and I switch to another app it will get suspended and its resources will be free for something else

Mavimao
Feb 27, 2011, 05:27 AM
When we first suspected that Apple was dropping the indicator lights, I wasn't sure what to think about it, but now that it's here, I'm starting to understand...

I think that Apple is trying to rethink the whole paradigm of an operating system. They're trying to make it seemless and easy for non-geeks unlike 99% of us on this board. Think about it: what do most non-geeks use a mac for? Photos, email, internet, watching movies, listening to music, doing homework... This isn't exactly CPU sucking pro-app usage. They don't care whether an app is running in the background or not. They just want to click on the dock icon and have it work. Apple is saying, "let the OS worry about regulating ressources."

What's important is that they've included the option to turn the indicators on which shows that they do care about pro users who DO need to know these things.

That along with the revamped Finder, Mission Control, Server software...this Lion is NOT the iOS-ified operating system we were fearing, but a rethinking of how an OS can work for both geeks and non-geeks. I for one am looking forward to this summer!

Cougarcat
Feb 27, 2011, 05:33 AM
I think that Apple is trying to rethink the whole paradigm of an operating system. They're trying to make it seemless and easy for non-geeks unlike 99% of us on this board. Think about it: what do most non-geeks use a mac for? Photos, email, internet, watching movies, listening to music, doing homework... This isn't exactly CPU sucking pro-app usage. They don't care whether an app is running in the background or not. They just want to click on the dock icon and have it work. Apple is saying, "let the OS worry about regulating resources."


Finally someone gets it.

mabaker
Feb 27, 2011, 06:03 AM
I’m glad to see an OPTION being there at least. :)

The problem with Mac OS X regulating resources is that it’s doing a shabby job especially with Safari being a monstrous RAM hog.

Nobody will tell me that they can run Safari with 20 Tabs open, Flash videos etc and then “just close the window” and everything will be fine. No, it won’t!

The HDD will start grinding as soon as you “close the window” for the 10th time. The average user will feel a noticable performance decrease which is non existent in Windows (since closing a window closes the app, too) or earlier MAc OS versions (you still see Safari is on!).

In a perfect world if MAc OS X were as good to manage the resources well then it’d be a non issue but Lion makes it a disaster waiting to happen.

mamouneyya
Feb 27, 2011, 08:18 AM
things i hope to see
- new application & system icons
judging by apple's latest os x icons (itunes x, app store), i'm not really looking forward to this idea.
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