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wptarcher
Oct 20, 2010, 05:11 PM
Seeing what happened for the new OSX Lion. I don't really see much of a difference between it and Snow Leopard beyond the App Store. So what would the point of upgrading be if that is the "revolutionary" inovation Apple made. (I know that there was a few other things, but they mainly seemed to have focused on the app store when talking about OSX Lion.)

~Cheers :apple:



angelwatt
Oct 20, 2010, 05:13 PM
It won't be released until Summer 2011, and as history often repeats, Apple is holding back on some key features, which will make it more worth it.

wptarcher
Oct 20, 2010, 06:34 PM
I know it won't be released until then. I was trying to start up some sort of discussion here.

~Cheers. :apple:

TMRaven
Oct 20, 2010, 06:40 PM
That mission control thing is an absolute joke. It's nice to know that apple finally made the + buttons work the way they're supposed to, but that's been long overdue.

HLdan
Oct 20, 2010, 06:42 PM
I know it won't be released until then. I was trying to start up some sort of discussion here.

~Cheers. :apple:

There's nothing to discuss in terms of your thread title because Apple said on stage they were not going to show but just a few features. It's not a finished product and of course they don't want MS to copy.

lewis82
Oct 20, 2010, 06:50 PM
That LaunchPad thing looks nice. Way more useful than using a folder in the dock. I hope they'll provide a gesture for it, though. (4 finger swipe left/right?)

DJ-R
Oct 20, 2010, 07:13 PM
Same here, after reading the keynotes...

I was like that's it? That's all? Wait wait wait... all these 2 years ... that's all?!?! REALLY!


Yeah when they mention Summer 2011... I'm like wait... that's a while to wait... There are more notes in between I guess.

applemagic123
Oct 21, 2010, 12:19 AM
The gui of lion looks like it's for people who want their macs to look and act like an iPad. You just frikken swipe left and right like the home page. Um, sorry apple, but I already have an iPhone and I don't want the same ui on my mac!

So................what about people like ME who own an iMac and use a logitech or other branded mouse because they don't like apple's mouse and purchased their system BEFORE the magic mouse and refuse to purchase a magic mouse????? How am I going to control the iPad-like desktop with all the apps to swipe? I like using the apps folder in the dock instead.

The mac app store???? Isn't that what iTunes is for??? I mean is everything from freemacware.com and other sites going to be on there?

Ever since snow leopard came out, apple is going way downhill with their software writing.

YES, it will not be released until next year, BUT....with all the bull crap hype over SNOW leopard and look what a disappointment that came to be with apps randomly crashing, the rainbow spinny thing coming up more often, supposed better graphics processing, etc. It was a joke, and lion will be too.

I definitely have learned a lesson and will NOT be buying lion the first month it's released.

topmounter
Oct 21, 2010, 02:14 AM
Considering the "OS X App Store" is coming to Snow Leopard, it's hard to consider it a part of Lion.

* Full-screen Applications
* Mission Control
* Launchpad

After Snow Leopard being touted as an infrastructure release that sets the stage for major new features in the next release, that's a pretty weak-sauce list of major new features to tease... especially after sitting through a 45 minute iLife training seminar.

baddj
Oct 21, 2010, 04:14 AM
The gui of lion looks like it's for people who want their macs to look and act like an iPad. You just frikken swipe left and right like the home page. Um, sorry apple, but I already have an iPhone and I don't want the same ui on my mac!

So................what about people like ME who own an iMac and use a logitech or other branded mouse because they don't like apple's mouse and purchased their system BEFORE the magic mouse and refuse to purchase a magic mouse????? How am I going to control the iPad-like desktop with all the apps to swipe? I like using the apps folder in the dock instead.


I also want to know, as i use my logitech mouse and i am not going to stop using it....

Bernard SG
Oct 21, 2010, 04:49 AM
The gui of lion looks like it's for people who want their macs to look and act like an iPad. You just frikken swipe left and right like the home page. Um, sorry apple, but I already have an iPhone and I don't want the same ui on my mac!

So................what about people like ME who own an iMac and use a logitech or other branded mouse because they don't like apple's mouse and purchased their system BEFORE the magic mouse and refuse to purchase a magic mouse????? How am I going to control the iPad-like desktop with all the apps to swipe? I like using the apps folder in the dock instead.

The mac app store???? Isn't that what iTunes is for??? I mean is everything from freemacware.com and other sites going to be on there?

Ever since snow leopard came out, apple is going way downhill with their software writing.

YES, it will not be released until next year, BUT....with all the bull crap hype over SNOW leopard and look what a disappointment that came to be with apps randomly crashing, the rainbow spinny thing coming up more often, supposed better graphics processing, etc. It was a joke, and lion will be too.

I definitely have learned a lesson and will NOT be buying lion the first month it's released.

Dude, what's with all the negativity? The iPad-like UI is not the primary UI, it remains the classic Mac OS desktop, it's an additional feature (which I like, personally). Mission Control, despite the lame name, seems to be something quite robust for an improved workflow.

Touch gestures are simply awesome, it's you being conservative and not willing to give a chance to change. My experience with a MBP lead me to purchase a Magic Trackpad for my iMac. It's an absolutely great approach to human interface. To your credit though, I'm somewhat unimpressed with the Magic Mouse.

I'm sorry to hear that you have a negative experience of Snow Leopard, but I'm also very surprised because I personally have encountered none of the issues that you mention. Maybe a few applications needed updates and then, everything works seamlessly.

The App-Store is interesting. It can be a blockbuster, it can be a big flop but my first impression about the idea is positive.

andrei.barbuta
Oct 21, 2010, 05:30 AM
What I saw in the announcement was nice but yes I was expecting more and there will be more but the wait for Lion was huge and I thought we should be treated with more goodies. But that's a personal feeling about this.

About Mission Control, I think it's GREAT! and here is why. Before mission control you had to juggle the organization of your desktop between Expose and Spaces which most didn't do, they just used Expose. When they had an app that needed to take the whole screen to be productive then it was cumbersome to switch between apps especially if those apps had multi documents.

The problem with spaces is that the organizational logic was in your head, you had to remember where the app was even if you could activate the whole spaces thing to see every space, it still took brain power to process where everything was. Mission Control on the other hand creates a dynamic space for every fullscreen app and that is why is so great.

Basically this whole interaction and apps organization is a more focused approach to the way you SHOULD work.
You will have the desktop with multiple apps, and virtual screens with fullscreen apps. It is just a better way to focus on your work, that's it.

maflynn
Oct 21, 2010, 05:58 AM
People slammed apple with 10.6 because most of the changes were under the hood, nothing really substantial was updated for the end user. I think expectations and hopes were pinned that we'd see some real updates to OSX.

I don't consider the app store a substantial update to the operating system. The app store (regardless of how you feel about it) is really more of a bolt on functionality.

I'm not sold on Mission Control, I'd have to see how it fleshes out in the real world.

I'm an old macintosh user so losing the menu bar in full screen is not something that would increase my effeciency, heck, I typically have 4 to 10 applications open at any given time, so the full screen thing is not a feature I'd want.

So we have the app store, mission control and full screen, oh and launch pad. Really 4 new things (and one really isn't OS specific) on an operating system upgrade that apple more or less promised that we'd see more improvements because 10.6 was supposed to be the foundation of those changes.

I for one am not jazzed up about 10.7, it fails to deliver any substantial update

Bernard SG
Oct 21, 2010, 10:05 AM
So we have the app store, mission control and full screen, oh and launch pad. Really 4 new things (and one really isn't OS specific) on an operating system upgrade that apple more or less promised that we'd see more improvements because 10.6 was supposed to be the foundation of those changes.

I for one am not jazzed up about 10.7, it fails to deliver any substantial update

I can somewhat understand your feelings, though I don't share them.
My serious question to you would be: what are the new things you would want Apple to do about Mac OS?
Personally I find Mac OS X quite mature and I have a hard time figuring out what kind of revolutionary innovation Apple could bring on the table at this point.

maflynn
Oct 21, 2010, 11:14 AM
My serious question to you would be: what are the new things you would want Apple to do about Mac OS?
Personally I find Mac OS X quite mature and I have a hard time figuring out what kind of revolutionary innovation Apple could bring on the table at this point.

Here's a few that I came up with in about 10 minutes of thinking


A modern file system, HFS+ is an aging file system that is sagging under the bulk of how people use the computers.
A move to volume management as opposed to partitions. At one point apple was moving towards embracing ZFS from sun but dropped that option.
resolution independence
Improved finder, specifically in the area of multi-threaded processing.
Improved graphic drivers and offloading more work from the CPU to the GPU
Consistent theme, apple still seems to have a mishmash of UIs floating around
improved mail.app
improve network connectivity with windows networks
increase iDisk performance
increased drag drop FTP capability.
increased security, for folders, i.e., easily encrypt/password protect folders
make filevault a little safer to use

Mal
Oct 21, 2010, 01:01 PM
Here's a few that I came up with in about 10 minutes of thinking


A modern file system, HFS+ is an aging file system that is sagging under the bulk of how people use the computers.
A move to volume management as opposed to partitions. At one point apple was moving towards embracing ZFS from sun but dropped that option.
resolution independence
Improved finder, specifically in the area of multi-threaded processing.
Improved graphic drivers and offloading more work from the CPU to the GPU
Consistent theme, apple still seems to have a mishmash of UIs floating around
improved mail.app
improve network connectivity with windows networks
increase iDisk performance
increased drag drop FTP capability.
increased security, for folders, i.e., easily encrypt/password protect folders
make filevault a little safer to use



New file system isn't likely, but still hoping for at least improvements. Not sure exactly what type you're looking for. Ditto on ZFS-like volume management.
Resolution independence: Hopefully, but not likely.
Finder improvements are almost guaranteed, but probably not as good as we'd all like.
More OpenCL improvements almost certain, though not necessarily talked about much by Apple.
Better UI is certain, but there will still be mishmash.
Mail.app will definitely get an upgrade, probably look more like the MobileMe web app in a lot of ways.
Don't hold your breath on Windows file sharing improving, but again hoping.
If iDisk isn't scrapped, then yes, some improvements there are important.
FTP capabilities aren't likely to be addressed.
Maybe passworded folders, doesn't seem to have been a focus for Apple though.
FileVault should probably be scrapped, but I don't see much in the way of changes being likely.


jW

VPrime
Oct 21, 2010, 01:28 PM
The also mentioned the Auto save, and the save state from iOS being implemented.. But they never showed it off.

I think overall this is just a small taste of what is to come.
UI, I am guessing a new UI will be showcased at WWDC. If you look closely there looks like some new scrollbars, and other small UI tweaks that could suggest a more refined UI to tie together the mashup we have goten over the years.

As for ful screen apps, I think (hope) this will just be an API developers can take advantage of. From the keynote, it didn't look like it replaced the green + button, but added to it. I may have missheard, but when the app went in full screen mode, I swear I heard him say "control click".
I am hoping full screen mode is just there incase the application you are using could benefit from it.. iWorks Pages already has a full screen mode for a while, and noone complained about that.

Overall, I am just going to guess that the keynote only showed off what they have presentable and polished...And also showed off just enough, with out giving away every thing else they are working on.

xshawn117x
Oct 26, 2010, 11:25 AM
I can somewhat understand your feelings, though I don't share them.
My serious question to you would be: what are the new things you would want Apple to do about Mac OS?
Personally I find Mac OS X quite mature and I have a hard time figuring out what kind of revolutionary innovation Apple could bring on the table at this point.

1. Having a user interface that is much more seamlessly and easy and beautiful such as Microsoft's Windows Aero feature or Fedora KDE "Plasma" feature.

2. Allow to easily change themes.

3. Fix the "Show View Options" in Finder issue to allow you to default any settings you set throughout the whole system and also allow for personalized settings on any specific folder.

4. Have all directories show up first in alphabetical order in Finder then followed by normal files, such as in Windows Explorer or Ubuntu.

5. Be allowed to quit an app upon clicking the "red button" on the upper left hand corner of the window instead of closing that window.

6. And definitely a package manager like Add/Remove Programs in Windows XP or Synaptic in Ubuntu.

LoganT
Oct 26, 2010, 11:30 AM
I find it funny that people literally think that the features that Apple showed off in their 5 minute demo are the only new features.

cgjodas
Oct 27, 2010, 06:47 PM
Really, I don't know what is the new name for Mac OS X... Lion is confirmed or is only speculation? In other sites I read something about iOS with a interface like iOS 4 (iPhone's Operative System).

mrsir2009
Oct 28, 2010, 12:06 AM
The also mentioned the Auto save, and the save state from iOS being implemented.. But they never showed it off.

I think overall this is just a small taste of what is to come.
UI, I am guessing a new UI will be showcased at WWDC. If you look closely there looks like some new scrollbars, and other small UI tweaks that could suggest a more refined UI to tie together the mashup we have goten over the years.

As for ful screen apps, I think (hope) this will just be an API developers can take advantage of. From the keynote, it didn't look like it replaced the green + button, but added to it. I may have missheard, but when the app went in full screen mode, I swear I heard him say "control click".
I am hoping full screen mode is just there incase the application you are using could benefit from it.. iWorks Pages already has a full screen mode for a while, and noone complained about that.

Overall, I am just going to guess that the keynote only showed off what they have presentable and polished...And also showed off just enough, with out giving away every thing else they are working on.

Apple often test drives new features in certain apps. For example, the iTunes UI is looking like what everything might look like in Lion. And the full screen for pages may be a test for what is coming to every other app too :D

steezy1337
Oct 28, 2010, 08:53 AM
Apple often test drives new features in certain apps. For example, the iTunes UI is looking like what everything might look like in Lion. And the full screen for pages may be a test for what is coming to every other app too :D

i hope iTunes isn't a preview of what Lion's gonna look like, it's pretty dull and not that much different from the rest of 10.6. now if it looked and worked like quicktime X i'd be very happy, with the disappearing title bars and nice black theme it's got going on.

mrsir2009
Oct 28, 2010, 11:58 AM
i hope iTunes isn't a preview of what Lion's gonna look like, it's pretty dull and not that much different from the rest of 10.6. now if it looked and worked like quicktime X i'd be very happy, with the disappearing title bars and nice black theme it's got going on.

I think it might be a mix of both. As you saw in the demo they had dissapairing scroll bars and stuff :)

Matt T
Oct 28, 2010, 07:48 PM
1. Having a user interface that is much more seamlessly and easy and beautiful such as Microsoft's Windows Aero feature or Fedora KDE "Plasma" feature.

2. Allow to easily change themes.

...

4. Have all directories show up first in alphabetical order in Finder then followed by normal files, such as in Windows Explorer or Ubuntu.

5. Be allowed to quit an app upon clicking the "red button" on the upper left hand corner of the window instead of closing that window.
So, basically, make it just like Windows? :confused:

hcho3
Oct 28, 2010, 09:32 PM
It will be very interesting with Mac OS lion. it will be a hit or miss for sure. So far, it looks a lot like Snow leopard with app store. Given the fact that app store is coming to snow leopard, I did not see anything interesting at the conference that will make me go out and buy right away.

Demo on Mac os lion with iMac and Apple magic mouse was very sad..
The presenter made many mistakes. Maybe, he was nervous. But, I could see that swiping gestures don't work quite well as they do on the glass track pad.

I will be very interested to know about the price. Snow leopard was something most of people were okay with because it was only 29 dollars. Seriously, iLife upgrade costs more than Mac OS upgrade!?

If apple price this thing over 79 dollars then... well....

Screw them.

TheAngryKiwi
Oct 29, 2010, 05:41 AM
I find it funny that people literally think that the features that Apple showed off in their 5 minute demo are the only new features.

QFT.

I'm waiting for next year, when Apple puts up that huge page they do for each OS revision (even the one for SL was pretty big) that lists all the improvements - big and small - on one page. Then I'll know whether it's worth my hard earned or not.

xshawn117x
Oct 29, 2010, 06:52 AM
So, basically, make it just like Windows? :confused:

Not necessarily, because GNU/Linux distros work pretty much the same deal such as quiting a window upon clicking the red x, maximizing the whole window, having a file management system which sorts everything alphabetically starting with directories at the top, and some GNU/Linux distros have some sort of cool desktop environment like in Fedora with KDE.

I'm a switcher, but I've also been using GNU/Linux distros as well before the Mac and one of the things I've noticed about Mac OS X is that it is quite powerful as an operating system, but not so user-friendly and/or looks plain. Just the default grey color of the menu bar and windows reminds of MS Windows 95 - 2000.

What I'm trying to say is that Apple has no taste in their desktop environment, it looks plain. The only way to change it is to modify a sorts of things instead of having some nice app that easily allows you to change themes, once again just like in Windows or GNU/Linux distros.

And from the looks of it as others have state it, Mac OS Lion doesn't seem much at all from Snow Leopard. I'm hoping it's not, but then again look at Leopard and Snow Leopard, pretty much almost the same. Most of anything was just under the hood changes, like all re-written OS to 64 bit.

LurchNC
Oct 30, 2010, 01:26 AM
What I'm trying to say is that Apple has no taste in their desktop environment, it looks plain. The only way to change it is to modify a sorts of things instead of having some nice app that easily allows you to change themes, once again just like in Windows or GNU/Linux distros.


I'm of the opposite mindset I guess. I find windows vista and 7 overly busy. I don't want my operating system "flashy". I want it neat and organized. To each their own.